"This Is Where We Draw The Line!" | Iran Attacks Israel

guess who else would have been killed if it weren't for Iron Dome 300. Rockets, you're talking about hundreds and thousands of deaths, so you're relying on the fact that there was an Iron Dome to protect the fact like, well, in nothing really happened. A lot of things happened and a lot of things would have happened if Israel hadn't done it. invest so much in protecting their civilians and you can't rely on that as a defense and not only that, let's go back to talking about when you talk about that, about the attack on Solomani and you say, well, nothing really happened, they just took a little retaliation, whatever it is, that's not the case, actually let's talk about flight 752 when they shot down a Tan plane heading to Ukraine and killed many, many.

There are a lot of innocent people on that plane because you know what the Islamic Republic does, they take it out on their own people, that's what they do and that's what they're doing now. The CRA is cracking down on Iranian women in the streets to show that they are the big bad wolf because they know they don't want smoke with Israel but they want to remind them who they are and guess who they are taking it out on the Iranian people and

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vocal support for the Islamic Republic being framed as victims in this story that they have been orchestrating for decades orchestrating terrorism Regional stability for decades you want to talk about the houses that fight for freedom, how dare you?

How dare you not acknowledge what the Houthis are doing in Yemen? Do you listen to Yemenis and their voices and what they have to say? They are terrorizing them. They are starving them. They are killing them. A young Arab woman is on death row. now in Yemen for criticizing the Hoodis, are you talking about their rights when you talk about the people of Yemen fighting for freedom in the Red Sea? What are you going to call the freedom takers, freedom fighters? That's good, let me interject. I want to bring up the other one because you raised some very interesting points, Dave, you got angry with some of them, but hey, look, I think we have to have a standard here and this is the point I was getting at with national sovereignty, like let's go to talk about things, let's have a standard if our concern is what has been happening to the people in Yemen, like you said what the Houthis are doing to them, do you know what has been happening to the people of Yemen in the last 8?

For years it has been the number one humanitarian crisis in the world in the war that Saudi Arabia launched against them with the full support of the United States of America, both Obama and Trump, during every day of their administration we were resupplying fuel for their combats , their fighter planes. Okay, we were very involved in that war, so okay, if you care about the horrible things happening to the people of Yemen, then you better criticize Saudi Arabia and the United States of America. This war just ended in the last year, the previous eight years. that was that's a whataboutism let me tell you I'm not done you said you weren't done didn't you say you weren't done before I'm not done now what about ism is a word that people shout when you call them out in their hypocracy I'm saying let's have a standard, but no.

I can explain to you why it is a whataboutism. What are we teenagers? What does this word mean? I am putting this in history so that you understand well or what happens with elismism deviating from the topic. that was presented the issue that I presented to you okay, it is a logical fallacy what I presented to you was the fact that the people of Yemen do not support the Houthis and you mentioned well what about the fact that they do not support this and I didn't bring this the way I didn't know wait, let's be clear here let me explain so you understand I'm not saying that let me finish my sentence okay go ahead what I told you is that the Yemeni people have expressed their opinion, if you listen to their voices, you don't listen to their voices because it is the radical and extremist voices that are supported by the media algorithm and the people on the ground who tell you.

They do not support the Houthis, that is support for the resistance. I'm not, uh, certainly. I do not know exactly. I am open to the idea that there are many people in Yemen who do not support the Houthis. I'm not defending the way the Houthis treat their people. I'm not defending the way the Iranian government treats their people. What I'm saying is if we're not going to be hypocritical here and criticize them because we care about how they treat the Houthis. people of Yemen,

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is this criticism for the much greater disaster that has been caused in that country over the last eight years?

And if you want to talk in terms of how people feel, it's almost unanimous. They are going to convey to the Muslim world that they are opposed to what Israel is doing to God and the idea that they would not want the houses to confront the Isra, wait for some G, wait to say that what Iran has really done here was achieved. What many think was almost impossible is that it has made people gravitate towards Israel again, right, it has united people with Israel because they thought well, actually look at this: 300 rockets launched from Iran, clearly present a massive threat for the people of Israel right at the moment.

At which point you're right Global support for Israel was starting to fade pretty quickly, so I would say that what Iran has done here is a very counterproductive thing if the desire was to try to continue isolating Israel for what it has been. Doing this in Gaza is the worst thing Iran could have done. Listen, there may be something to that and I'm not saying this was necessarily a big strategic decision, but I don't think you're right about that, I mean. Look, when you say the people united or pushed towards Israel, I think what you're thinking about is the fact that all these countries that you just pointed out helped Israel defend itself, but the truth is that it's really not that shocking that Jordan and Saudi Arabia and look at the Sunni Gulf States or Jordan is not a Gulf State but these Sunni States here are American puppets that we buy them for billions and billions of dollars and we prop them up, they do it, but what the world in general.

Dave, they simply see Israel being attacked by Iran and they see two large Arab countries, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, rushing to support their defense at a time when much of the Arab world is furious about what has been happening in G in terms of how Israel has executed its attack on Hamas in response to October 7, so you know. I agree with you, there's no doubt that support for Israel had been rapidly dissipating, but when I saw the reaction to what happened here, I was shocked. For two large Arab countries, things are going well, we know that what is happening in Gaza is unpopular, but this is something that we are going to support Israel but I think they could be combining the actions of the governments with the popularity among the people.

I mean, I am I'm open to the evidence on this, but I don't see any real realignment happening. Here you look at Israel, the way they have been conducting this war and the brutality of it, they have been alienating more parts of the world than I have ever seen them. alienate me in my life to the point where 50% of Democratic voters believe this is genocide, this is a major issue for Joe Biden's re-election campaign and this is how you feel, there is no doubt that they have remote to much of the world. of them and I simply don't see any evidence that the root brought down the very pro-Israel Democratic shift before October 7, well, yes, but that is also part of an argument, let me ask you much more about the scenes we have been seeing in In the United States, in the last 48 hours, these concerted protests on the main bridges around the United States, passing through New York and Washington, etc., we have been seeing people in Michigan chanting death to America, you know, slogans are chanted of pramas, etc., what do you think?

I think this is absolutely painful. I think it is obviously disgusting to harm ordinary civilians. The people who are on the bridge trying to go to work at the airport. Your children to doctor's appointments. They have nothing to do with the war that is happening. in the Middle East they have no way to affect it, you're not going to change their minds by making them miss a flight or something and I think it's really hurting their cause that they're making the people we've seen this uncomfortable about. months the Christmas tree lighting up the Thanksgiving Day Parade, anything that can bring joy to Americans, they seem to want to protest to disrupt it and that will not make Americans any more favorable and I personally live in Manhattan and I have heard many of them.

I have seen many of the protests and I have heard them chanting we want another inata, even stating things like that, that does not get anyone to support them, that does not help them separate themselves from the people they accuse of committing genocide, which is a Li and in and of itself, I think it's doing a lot of harm to their cause and Americans, at least the people of New York, are very fed up with this. Stop making our lives uncomfortable. They have the freedom to protest. They don't have the freedom to block traffic and ruin people's lives.

You're just trying to get through the day, okay, you've been to a lot of these protests. Wait a second, come to you, but Nadine, you've been to these protests, including yesterday when I heard people chanting death to America in America's heartland. That gives me a headache. I'm not even American and we're seeing similar things happening in the UK. I believe passionately in peaceful protest, I have no doubt about it, but when I see what has been happening with the sections and there. sections are not all protest crowds, it is disconcerting to see this kind of hatred towards America from the people who live here.

Well, I'd like to start by saying that the protests have still been peaceful, you know, phrases and actions that have been taken. In the protest they have not really been violent, they have not hurt anyone and I do not think we should focus on what you think of the people who sing death to the United States as they did in a video clip last time. I think maybe it's just a phrase. said by a good individual, no, the entire crowd began to join together. I didn't see that, so this guy, this guy said it and then the whole crowd started singing it.

What would you condemn? I'm here to talk about everything. As for my questions, would you condemn what they were singing? Death to the United States. I think we should condemn that Palestinians are actually killed. Well, I guess that's not the question I'm asking you, so I'll ask you about Gaza, but about the question I asked you: would you condemn the people in the United States who chant death to the United States? What does it say? I don't condemn how people choose to express their anger verbally. I don't condemn it because at the end of the day the reason they say that is because America is sending tax dollars and guns that you actually support, do you support them chanting death to America?

No, I don't sing that, so I don't know why you're judging me this way. de I'm asking you to condemn him don't you want I'm asking you I'm asking you, therefore, I should assume that you support them, sing, those are not the chances that I would, personally, you should wait. I just want to stress this, surely you should condemn him or support him, no you don't need Neal to America, scary, how would anyone? Do you think if they went to AA? Haunted death to Palestine with the Hamas terrorists. close No, I don't understand these hypotheses, there is reality because they are very lucky, they are very lucky to be creating a context that you are eliminating.

I'll explain the context. They are doing this in a country. where they are very fortunate where freedom of speech is not only tolerated but encouraged if you tried to kill Palestine as an opportunity with a crowd in the middle of Gaza with Hamas people nearby I suspect they would kill you pretty quickly right? Are you saying that people who chant death to America should be killed in America or should be able to express their freedom of speech? I'm saying the First Amendment is correct. I don't think saying death to the United States is a freedom, it is freedom, but come on.

Wait a second, I'm going to be real quick about this, but I'll just say that I hate to go to the other side of this topic now, but I just saw this so many times on your show when you have someone who I totally agree with this, by the way, I totally agree. against this war of Israel. I think they should just stop her. I think the deal is good anyway. The fact matters, yes, the fact is that Israel is doing this to Gaza right now and that is what I am doing. I'm literally trying to agree with you on something, get the facts straight, I'm just saying it happened on October 7th.

What I'm saying right now, right now, okay, right now Israel is fighting this war. I think their treatment of the Palestinians since before the state. of Israel has been totally unforgivable, but I see this on your show all the time, where you ask someone who I agree with, like you, generally speaking, on this issue, do you condemn this? Everyone is always running away from it and I think that just makes The plot so much weaker, it absolutely stops singing.death to America, stop blocking the streets, stop referring to Hamas as freedom fighters. You always say things like you're trying to get me, no I'm not, I'm just literally asking you to condemn something that any normal, rational, human person, by the way, is instinctively righteous, it's freedom of speech, I mean, in the United States.

Joined. you have the right to say what you want but it is stupid to say it it is wrong to say it you can condemn October 7 you can condemn Hamas you can condemn these excesses and still say I think what Israel is doing to the Palestinian people is wrong and they should stop it ient yes , I'm happy to condemn a lot of things on both sides of this, let me bring El, you've been trying to let me jump in there first of all, first of all, when we talk about free speech in this country under the Constitution, we know that there is no Absolute freedom of expression, okay, there are nine discrete groups of exceptions to freedom of expression, one of them is incitement to violence, okay, so let's not act like it's a willy-nilly thing. that you could go out and say death to America secondly and it's a very specific case this is a cover up this is total intellectualism you're using your legal expertise to try to trample on the People's First Amendment don't interrupt me you've been talking and I have something to say To say about it when you say death to America, okay, it's insensitive to the fact that we live in a nation of immigrants.

Do you understand that we live in a nation of immigrants where people come here to escape from you all happy for me for myself I'm happy to get away from slans like death in America but I think it's important to understand that the context of condemnation of the Palestinian resistance and condemnation of the people of Gazza paves the way for this genocide to be carried out. and that's exactly what we need, let me have my prayer, okay, because you're not going to let me sentence, I don't want to, but that was a significant concession on Nadine's part that she, if we wanted her to distance herself, she will and she's very well, I accept that when you talk about death to the United States you are talking about death to a democratic nation that was designed to protect no, you can't keep interrupting me you can't keep interrupting me that is extremely disrespectful you are talking about death to a nation that is designed to protect a nation of immigrants with the rights and privileges granted to them by the Constitution who have escaped countries that were murdered for exercising those rights to free speech, okay, this is not a perfect system, don't get it.

I'm wrong, this is not a perfect system, but it is a system we are working on. It is a system that I have worked with in the criminal justice system for this very reason. Okay, improve this system I've been working on for a long time. last 12 years, but at no point am I going to turn around and say death to a nation that is the only place we have for this type of progress for this type of protection of minority communities, this type of protection for immigrants is fine and it is not a perfect democracy and when it fails we take to the streets when it failed for Rodney King what did we do?

We took to the streets and the Department of Justice got involved and we made it happen. What would happen if you took to the streets in Iran? to protest against the lynchings they are doing the many evil St style lynchings they are doing every day, they would kill you, so you don't have the nerve to say death to America. This is not a Suzero game, you can absolutely support the people. of Palestine, you can absolutely defend their rights, their right to statehood, their right to freedom, their right to sovereignty as I do, but you have no right to cross those lines and corrode our Democratic Society that protects us.

Yes I agree with you. Well, let's finally end up moving just to Gaza, because it's obviously been put to the side a little bit while we've been having this, this ongoing issue with Iran, Israel's position has been very clear on this from the beginning, they want to eliminate Hamas. . Hamas is dedicated to getting rid of Israel. We know this because after October 7 a spokesperson went on television and brazenly said that if we can do it again and again, that represents a clear public existential threat to Israel and everyone alive. How can Israel get rid of Hamas, which wants to eliminate them in a different way than they are doing, whether with the catastrophic death toll, with the horrific humanitarian crisis and all that when you have a terrorist organization embedded among a civilian population?

With all the tunnels being found now and such, is there any other way they could do this? So if you accept that they have a justification for getting rid of a terrorist group that wants to destroy them, is there a different way to do this? Well, the short answer is no, I don't think there is um, I think look, you have to understand what creates the environment where you have this kind of death cult like Hamas, these terrorists and look, this is not again, These are things that the CIA talks about that it was General Mstal, right, okay, you just complained about interrupting, so anyway it was General Mstal, no, my, my, my page.

He froze, okay, oh, oh, I'm sorry, I apologize, it was friendly fire, it was friendly fire, look, General McCrystal, this wasn't like an anti-War Dove, right, this was the guy who was running the war in Afghanistan, a serious general, he was the one who coined the term insurgent mathematics. What is 10 minus 2 20? Because when you kill two of the insurgents, they all had brothers, they all had parents. they had friends and they all joined in and what Israel is doing here is ensuring that there will be more Hamas or Hamas-like groups look, here's the truth, okay Israel, and this has been widely reported in The Times of Israel here in the New York Times everywhere uh in the Jerusalem Post Benjamin Netanyahu embarked on a strategy to prop up Hamas, it was a very cynical strategy, I don't think it's even debatable, I mean and why, but the most important thing is because He wanted to divide the Palestinians into two groups and put the Palestinian Authority into Hamas because he felt it would be better for Israel's security.

No, no, listen carefully, that's really what he said in his own words so that we can never have to give you a state that he supported. I don't think I'll listen to it. I don't think Netanyahu has ever had one of the two-state solutions. Actually, I don't think that over the past 10 years he's even shown any desire to have her. peace, but I just want to say that this is where the Israeli justification completely falls apart because they say, well, look, we have this terrorist group Hamas, they hide in these tunnels and it sure sucks that we have to kill all these babies in order to get them, but we have to, but when you know that you actually supported this group so that those babies would never have their freedom to begin with, then I'm sorry that you lose that excuse, okay, Deborah, I think that's a pretty powerful power.

Argument: Yes, I think that at the end of all this Netanyahu has to do the right thing because what is clear to the Israelis is that they support what he is doing with the war, but they do not support him because of what happened on October 7, they believe. that he should be held accountable, they want him out, yes, I think just addressing his argument that the everything matters framework Israel is not just going to kill babies, Kamas is hiding among civilians makes it even more difficult and Israel has an obligation to recover to his hostages. Excuse me, be careful.

Israel needs to get its hostages back, they now have 180 and a little less that are still sitting there and it's crazy that we have Americans there and Joe Biden is not doing anything, but as far as BB Netanyahu is concerned, I think there are two. There are different sides here, there are people who are pro-Israel who want to see him resign and there are people who are pro-Palestine who want to see him resign on the pro-Israel side for me if it were my children who were being held hostage For over six months, no one was able to stop me from going there and getting them back.

You know, I don't have kids, so I think it's a little easier to say now, given the circumstances, but I can't imagine what you think of these families. Israel. It should absolutely finish the job. I think Israel should do anything, even if it means attacking Rafa, where there are one and a half million people, many of whom are refugees. Listen. I see your point and I have kids so I can know, put myself into that. If I had children that were being held hostage or children that were being murdered on October 7th, I'm sure I would just want to kill everyone.

The only thing I ask of people is that they also put themselves in the other shoes of those people. In Gaza they also have children and their children have been dying for many years. I also think that I also think that I think it's completely correct, but I think they made a good point about the ideology that you can kill as many Hamas terrorists as you want. but you will not kill the ideology, in fact what you could be doing (I have had a great fear in the last few months) is what Israel could be doing in its desire to get rid of Hamas with all the collateral damage of all the innocent civilians, particularly children, because Gaza is 50% children, which in reality what they are going to do is feed the ideology that fueled Hamas in the first place exactly and who is killing and starving the hostages, wait, It is Israel that is killing its own. hostages, it is Israel that is starving its own hostages and even the world.

Central kitchen workers that you know the world was rightly outraged about, but where is that outrage when it comes to 40,000 Palestinians? And I think ultimately, as long as there is oppression, there will be resistance to that and I said this on your show before, to really kill the Palestinian resistance, they're going to have to kill every single person, inza, how does this end? You know, and I also wanted to mention something, just in general, that was talked about before we found out where Dad's AI program is, where they literally follow Hamas people until they get home and then bomb them with their families inside. from his house, so the idea that you know that Hamas is using human shields is absolutely ridiculous. and I need to refute that and that is that there is no doubt that Hamas has built tunnels around hospitals, around day centers, you know, children's centers, schools, etc., there is no doubt that they have done it, they don't even pretend it , so I just think it is no longer a moot point and when it comes to killing people who are close to their families, Hamash showed absolutely no care in who was brutally murdered indiscriminately, brutally murdered, brutally murdered, were brutally murdered by the Israeli army itself, the missiles that caused the truth is that there were people who died in the crossfire, but that is still Hamas.

I mean, the blame still can't be taken away from them. The truth is that Hamas doesn't care if Palestinians die. What Hamas was trying to provoke. Is terrorism what it always is? True, Osama Bin Laden hit us on 9/11. He said it in his own words. It's not because he thought it would end the United States of America. He wanted to draw us into a war in Afghanistan like he did with the Soviets. to bankrupt us and what Hamas wants in this case, they want Israel to do what they know Israel was actually going to do. This is where I think, look, I don't have all the hard evidence for this, but it seems to me that the most likely thing is that what's happening here is that the tentacles of Iran are behind a lot of this, that they helped Hamas do what what they did in terms of arming them and giving them money, etc., and that they wanted something that would drag Israel into what they did.

They would see it as a massive over-response and the same with launching rockets into Israel. They are trying to get Israel and potentially the United States to accept what they would see as an excessive response that could work in their favor. Well, maybe you're right. I have seen no evidence to say that I will come to you to say the last word. Yeah, well, let D finish this point. Listen. I haven't seen evidence to suggest it wouldn't destroy my worldview if I did, but yeah. That is the case, what is the answer? So what do we do to fight Osama Bin Laden?

Don't get stuck in a 20-year regime change. War, fight them with Special Operations, like Israel always did before Netanyahu, they never tried. The problem of terrorism as a military problem was always assassination campaigns, special operations, no, no, you just, recklessly, you don't kill innocent people this way, because then you turn world opinion against you. I think you have a good point, let's get to you. Because you're on the cover of a New York Post today, your rhetoric on this has really resonated with people, let me give you the last word and I think this is what I struggle with: there's always such a distortion of the narrative that it's really Frustrating and difficult to correct.

Look, everyone here should be on the same page. This is not a zero sum game. We should all be aligned on these things. We don't need to be in opposition. You know, everyoneWe agree on that. Netanyahu is not going to be in favor of a two-state solution. We all agree that we need um um um state and sovereignty for both nations. We all agree that we want peace between Israel, Palestine and Iran. Some of these things are really inappropriate when you say things like you know when you kill Palestinians you're just creating a new generation of terrorists this is extremely racist would you ever say that about American children who were orphaned would you say oh these will probably grow up and Will they become terrorists? that is the intolerance of low expectations, let's talk about what it really is, let's talk about what is always left out of the conversation, which is that they have a group of fundamentalists and empowered terrorists who take child soldiers and say, look what happened to you , You know? your suffering, your oppression that was caused by this and the only way to resolve it is for you to become a martyr.

It's like any child trafficking ring that's at the center of what creates this fundamentalist extremist ideology, you know, and yes, of course. I can say that anyone who is oppressed is going to resist, but this is not resistance, going to a different country and massacring 100 innocent civilians is in no way resistance, so if you want to talk about it, you know what will happen to this next generation of extremely traumatized children. In Gaza, I think we can all recognize that all the tragedies that we have witnessed, the answer is that we guide them out of this extremist fundamentalist traffic, when TR they are gunned down when they try to protest.

They get shot down when they go on hunger strike, no one cares about each and every diplomatic or social political avenue that Palestinians have taken to achieve our freedom have been ignored, people have been imprisoned for it, so what option left for the Palestinian people other than to resist? Do you know what? I think I told you this before. I remember finishing it. This is what I say very quickly. We ran out of time. Our time is over. But this is what I would say. I just think I remember it being a different situation, but in some ways there were a lot of parallels to the Northern Ireland wars which went on for many decades and everyone thought they were completely unsolvable and intractable because you had two completely different sets of ideologies and they eventually got peace and they got there by having leaders who really came with a desire for peace and right now I don't see that with anyone in the Hamas leadership.

I don't see it with anyone in the Netanyahu government and what you need is to have a completely fresh ship. Both sides really have a genuine desire to forge peace and I hope and pray that the only thing that comes out of this is that they get the right leaders with the right mindset because Norman Ireland is now a pretty peaceful place to be and it was a place where when I grew up they were bombing the British mainland left right and center and I never thought that would be possible in my lifetime but it was so thank you listen good to see you Nadine good to see you Deborah good to see you to see you, Dave. good to see you elica I really appreciate the debate uh and I hope we can do it again thank you very much thank you very much