Jordan Peterson | This Past Weekend #110

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Well, it could be inside a hat and that's a fact. The hat is basically like an apartment for your head, so if your head is a homeless man, change it and get that bed studio, they have all kinds of hooded hats or at HUD hat USA. I'll also post them on my Instagram and these hats so specific get hood specific hat dot com today's guest is a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto he's a critical thinker he's a command he's a speaker he's currently on tour he's also the creator authorship, which is a program that can help you examine your past establish your present and plan your future there will be a link to that program below and he also wrote when he got here he wanted to offer our listeners and viewers a discount and that code is EO Theo and you can use it to get a discount. every time you buy authorship, we're so happy to have you here today, Mr.

Jordan the Peterson, thanks for coming Jordan, hey, it's my pleasure, I really appreciate it and I know our listeners are excited. Does it seem to you that you have entered people's lives like a hurricane recently? Do you feel that? Yes, and I feel all

this

. It has come into my life like a hurricane. Yeah, you know, I mean, I spend a lot of time teaching mm-hmm, so I was used to interacting with reasonably large groups of people and I did some media work in Canada before all this blew up. so it wasn't a total surprise and I've had my YouTube videos on YouTube for quite some time now so you know what they say it takes 10 years to become an overnight success and all of this has been building up in multiple ways, but it took when it took off, it really took off like crazy and yeah, that was about a year and eight months ago, something like that and it hasn't stopped for a second, which is really, I still think well.

The first week I thought, well, that's my 15 minutes and that's what you already know, and before I had 15 minutes smaller, but it's hard the fact that it doesn't end, it's very hard to understand, but I'm coming to terms. . I think part of this is that you know you don't want to attribute to yourself what can be attributed to the situation mm-hmm is a protection against the eagle's selfishness, the pain of him falling into a trap, yes, it certainly is , and that's why there are all these people who come to listen to my talks, you know, I've performed in 50 cities in about five months and most of the theaters I've been speaking at have had between 2,500 and 3,000 people, so it is a lot of people. thinking what the hell is going on here and then I thought, oh I see, I would watch some of this anyway and it's part of what you're involved in, it's that well, there's a new technology, yeah, YouTube and YouTube is. t an online video on demand technology is a technological right and online video on demand that has no production cost barriers is a new technology.

Podcasts are a new technology and they're a big technology, so it wouldn't take about a year or two years. Two years ago, in a few months, I realized that I had surpassed a million views because I started posting my lectures just out of curiosity and I thought, well, what the hell am I supposed to do with that? A million is a lot. If I sold a million books, I would be happy. It never happens like it's a runaway bestseller. You never get a million citations for a scientific paper. That never happens. Never a thousand is a great collection of quotes.

I thought. Well, what is this place that was reserved for cute cat videos? And I thought, and all these people are watching these university lectures, they're high-level lectures, you know, and there's a huge public market for it. I thought, well, that's really interesting. like then I thought, oh I see, this is what's happening, this is a Gutenberg revolution, the spoken word is now as powerful as the written word, it's widely distributed and more people can access it because they don't have to read it. . it uses found time and there's no barrier to entry and people can communicate because they can cut the videos, it's like oh I see, this is a revolution, right?

So I think what I see is what's happening is people who are at the forefront of This is cascading like a surfer on a giant wave in this technological transformation and obviously people are responding to my content, but a large part of this is that there is a completely new medium and it is one of two of them, YouTube, which is a A great video on demand like that, yes, which also allows for long discussions is huge, of course, but then podcasts could even be more important, yes, because people use the time of the source and that really helped me put it into perspective.

Actually, I'm happier. about that because you know you might think well, isn't it gratifying to know that your message is reaching millions of people well now and it's like, but if there's danger in that it's like, well, what the hell, why am I in the center? of this or a center of this like is there something special about my messages? there's something special about me it's like and you might think well I hope so it's like no you don't necessarily have hope so yeah you know it's very dangerous it's very dangerous online well yeah and it also puts you in a very quirky and it's like, oh no, I see what's going on, I'm an early adopter of a revolutionary technology, oh yeah, that's good and fine, I'm competent at it and hopefully what I am.

Doing is helpful, but let's not underestimate technology, right, let's not underestimate it. I know you mentioned to Rogen on the recent Joe Rogan episode that you were a surfer and not the wave itself exactly. I'm starting to see how dangerous and powerful ego can be, albeit a little bit because I even notice in my own life that I started selling out shows and stuff over the past year and people were coming in like they were excited to spend time with me. , You know? Sometimes it's not even about the word, it's just about who you know relates to you as a person, yes, but I do realize that it can be very dangerous.

I see how that can be extremely dangerous if I don't stay in one place. where it's not about me, well I guess I think that's the best antidote to that, so yeah, that's a mask, some of that is happening, well I'm older and I think it's less, all of that is less tempting for me. I have a lot of clinical experience in that kind of thing and I also know why it is necessary to keep the ego in check and that is certainly the case also if you do psychotherapy because, well, you are in a position of authority. say mm-hmm and it's easy for that to become inflated, but it's not good for you or your clients, you have to keep your feet on the ground and they don't come to you for wise advice, clients actually do. coming to you so you can listen to them figure out how to put their own lives together, that's a really important distinction and then with respect to the people who come to see me, the right attitude towards that and I think this is true for any artist is Thank you, damn, be happy because those people are there, so I'm careful.

I do meet and greets after events and watch myself to make sure I'm always happy to meet the next person. You know because I know that if I start to get tired maybe it's just from exhaustion. You know I should stop doing it because it is an absolute privilege for these people to come and you should never take that for granted and you should never think about it. is there something that you know spectacularly special about yourself that attracts these people and that you are somehow above them and they are your fans or you know that there is a real power difference even though that manifests itself because people are very happy to see You are right, but that is a dangerous path and I really am ridiculously overwhelmed, grateful, happy and pleased, did all these people show up?

Yes, especially because of what is also happening. You already know how I am. It seemed so. You already know. one of the things that I found most powerful in your recent episode that you're going to keep quoting that, but you know you talked about how many people came out and he talked about a Latino guy, yeah, he actually had a funny one, it was funny, I thought that the joke was pretty funny, what are you like when two guys attack you downtown, it's so nice, it's usually a little alarming, yeah, but it was uh, it was um um, it was a Latino kid and his dad. and they were talking about how the relationship had improved since they somehow brought you into their life, yes, yes, well, they were working hard for the boy in particular, the young man was working hard in particular, obviously, his father was responding, but the young man had made it a priority on the right side, he was going to fix his relationship with his father and then it was working, it's like, well, that's just great and I hear stories like that all the time non-stop and how does it make you feel that?

I realized that that does you and makes you what is that feeling? Well, I'm excited, right? And you know, it's funny to use that word because I often teach people how to negotiate their salaries, it's like if you're negotiating for a new job you're negotiating for a career what should you ask for that's easy figure out how much they'd have to pay you so you're excited about having the job and then tell the person, look, you know you have to be reasonable about it. Okay, you know it has to be within the limits of sensitivity, but you might think, okay, well, I need to be able to get up by the seat of my pants. tomorrow and, thank God, it's so good to be able to do this job.

Okay, how much do they have to pay you to do that? And you can ask yourself that about almost anything someone asks you to do. Okay, if I'm going to do this, what are the preconditions for me to be delighted? do it and then well, then you can tell the person and it's a burden and you and you get excited, and with this with what I'm doing now, well, I'm excited because I really believe that The way out of this idiotic political polarization was and the existential danger is that people fix their lives, individuals one by one, and every time an individual fixes their lives, that really makes the world a better place and I really believe that and then when it's not what I think, it's just that I discovered why that's true, it's not the same as just believing it well, you saw it, no, I've seen it many times and I also know that you're not an isolated speck of dust among seven billion specks, it's like if you were a network guy, yeah, like you know well that you're a really good example that you have a lot of influence, it's like it really matters.

Whether you have your life together, you're influencing a lot of people and then they're influencing other people, so it's teamwork. I mean, I realized even starting this podcast, that we started around the same time as yours, which I'm now introducing myself to. the podcast because the listeners show up for me, yeah, it's really fascinating, you know, it's like I come in overtime and do extra things because I want us to be a part of each other, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, and that's cool . That's a great philosophy to make it work because the other thing you have to do and I've been trying to do this with this book and also similar publications.

I published this book and told the publishers, look, man. I'mtotally committed, I'm doing everything I can to do and I mean everything to make this book a success because that's why I wrote it. I'm not half in it, I'm all in and if you're all in, first of all that increases your chances of success, it's actually the only way to test if you have a chance of success, you're going to be all in, you have to be all in. inside and then this means for whatever a book means. a job or a relationship, anything where you have to be all in and it's even true if it's a, you know, you might think well, I work in a restaurant and it's like I should be all in and out, it's like yeah, man. , you could make that a good restaurant.

Yeah, and then everyone who comes in could have a good 20 minutes, half an hour, a decent meal, you know, a little break, could have a nice cup of coffee, could have some fresh orange juice, yeah, could be a good part of their lives. and then you will learn how to make a good restaurant and a place that is hospitable to people, you will learn how to treat people properly and you will learn how to treat your customers as property and grow your business and then even if you stop doing that. that even if you're a waiter or waitress, you know, when I was a waiter for four in a lot of places, I've lived in a lot of restaurants, it's like you can learn a lot doing that and then, if you want, doing something that's that's different, so You can carry forward everything you learn from that and it is not trivial, it is not trivial to be a good waitress or a good store, a good fast food cook, those are difficult jobs and if you do them well, it matters mm-hmm then, You find it?

I find it when I am in your home country. When I'm in Canada. There are many people. There seems to be some infection in the United States. Sometimes I feel like. We've lost the sense of pride or identity that there's value even in doing the little things and in your court I mean, you know, in Canada, I was performing in Calgary for a couple of nights and I had a great time, the people are so friendly. , I mean, you could literally have one leg and someone comes up and gives you the other leg, you know their leg and they stand there, you know, like a flamingo and you just know. let you go live your life, I mean, the people are so gracious and so kind, but yeah, but there seems to be a little more Canadian pride there and in the United States I feel like we've lost a little bit of that pride. like in ourselves, but also even in our country, it's just a matter of general pride, yeah, yeah, well, I think that's been attacked.

You know the idea that you should be proud of your country. You know that's something fascist or that. you should, what would you say?, have respect for your founding principles. That idea is somewhat under attack. The idea that this is a corrupt patriarchy and that it is an oppressive state and it is corrupt, except in comparison to every other system that has ever existed. true, we are doing much better, well, many, oh well, yes, and then the degree to which American ideals, but generally Western ideals, have manifested themselves around the world is producing a massive increase in the quality of life everywhere, yes, you know, there are many looks.

It's not that our systems don't have problems, they have problems like all systems, but as far as the systems go, man, we're running on eight cylinders, yeah, you're doing it right and yeah, all of a sudden it's like we're doing it . so bad, yeah, and I love how suddenly it happened, suddenly everything is horrible and really, when you go out into the world, most things are fine. I'm noticing, especially in the United States, that a lot of media is just saying things are fine. bad and then there are a lot of people sitting at home sharing that information, yeah, well, I think if you go out, it's not like that people in general are pretty decent to each other.

I think part of what's happening is that, as classical media died under the onslaught of this technological pressure, especially television, yes, television is a habit, oh, it's like that, if it's too efficient, it's efficient. to the point where it's not effective, I think fine, and the bandwidth is very narrow and it's advertised a lot and you know you become a commodity. on television, no matter how good your character is, it tends to turn you into a commodity, yeah, of the narrow bandwidth, so I think what's happening now that the media and of course the print media just They face competition on all possible fronts because there are so many people.

I have access to - oh yeah, every writing and sharing well exactly there's nothing special about being a journalist now essentially and it's jumped the shark in the last year like it's fascinating how quickly all of that just oh yeah it almost hit rock bottom oh yeah, man it's incredibly fast, well that just shows how powerful technologies are, but you know, I think as traditional media dies, they get desperate for attention, they get all the clickbait t-shirts, yeah, add the hype, the polarization and catastrophe. The best example of that is that there is much more coverage of violent crime than there was 25 years ago, but there is half as much violent crime as in the top five measures of violent crime that have fallen by 50 percent in the last 25 years like who? knows that no one oh, it's dangerous, the streets are dangerous we're all at each other's throats it's like no, we're not, for now it's safer in the United States than ever it's safer now than in the early '60s it ever was you'd guess it, so you know it's funny I just got back.

I came back to my hometown, which is a small town in Louisiana, and you said you're from a similar town. We realized before we started, about 4,000 people, yeah, eyes on the city, and I was asking some of the professors from my third year. In high school I said well, what's racism like here now? Because you know, my town was mostly poor black and poor white and she's like, you know what, and this is a girl who had gone to school with me and now she's the principal there. You would be surprised because she has improved so much.

He says we just don't have any. You know, we definitely have some class differences, but we don't have as much outright racism anymore and that was and. For that to happen, am I telling you that she grew up in a city? The cowboys and I think Eddie Murphy were the only rich black people you had ever heard of in the entire universe and now you know it's very different in America, like you can go to Atlanta where you can see a lot of black prosperity. and some of that has just taken time, yeah, but sometimes I wondered, as a man, in some of these smaller towns where I'm from, will they ever be able to get some of that, you know, that, that guttural like you know the vulgarity of old racism. you know about old practices of our, you know a professional system of our DNA and to hear that firsthand from people that I trust, you know the teachers at this school, that that's getting better, it was like wow because that's It's crazy because if you click on anything online, everyone, you know, kills each other over racist ideals, yeah, so yeah, I see that the world that I live in is much better than the world that's online and I think that people are starting to realize that I think they are too, people are waking up very quickly and that leads me to an authenticity like: Do you have feelings for yourself?

Because there are a lot of voices out there, you know, and now you're on a platform where it's bigger and people can talk more. Can people know that no one clicks on a sentence anymore because they know that sentence is part of a big conversation? They would just get to know what happened and now they want the whole conversation. They want to know who it is, but. Do you feel like you're growing like you're 38? Know? I mean, I'm a bit of a late bloomer, so maybe I'm in my mid-30s, but I'm also like an old soul, so I guess I'm actually like I'm back at 38, but it's a quick trip, yeah, yeah, but you know I grew up in a time where you know a lot of our parents and my friends' parents, as you know, got divorced.

They chose younger women or, you know, they gave in to this idea that they could have it all, you know, uh, you know, I saw my mother, no, you know, they have to work hard and not get a kiss on the forehead before bed, did they? You know? as if she always had to be the one to give affection in her house, some you know, I realized that you know there are many men my age that it's not about the fight, there's nothing we can do anymore, you can't reprimand your children, it's just that you can't fight, it's more about lawyers, it's like I feel like there are a lot of men who come to a point in their lives like, what value do I have, even if I'm a man? hmm and like our parents.

We were in wars and our fathers were in the army and there were some, you know, there was an I was an American or but I feel like there's a kind of aimlessness, there's a lot of men wandering around aimlessly, also a lot of confusion because what they are. listening to you mm-hmm yeah, well men, they're finding you, yeah, it's like you're like that cool step that showed up that actually cares about our mom or something, yeah, you know not to put pressure on yourself, no, no . That's good, but I'm good. I'm noticing it in some of my dear friends, people who are much smarter than me and when men who have hearts bigger than a million approach me, they are very excited.

They're like, oh, you have Jordan coming today, you know, he touches me like they feel a connection, yeah, well, actually he would. Actually, like I said, I'm really excited and when you know, all kinds of people come up. to me after the talks and in the streets and so on and he says, "You know, a good number of them are our guys, often younger, but not always, and you know they want to come and tell me something good they've done and I". I'm excited because it's like a good man goes out, kill him, yeah, and the idea is that part of what has happened in the dialogue in our culture is that masculine responsibility, the willingness to take responsibility, which is part of the factors that influence achievement and mission.

Actually, the really positive part is that it is confused with tyranny and oppression and that men are largely punished even more for their better impulses. Do you want to go out and do something like while you make smashed things? the earth, it is true, it is as if the earth were recognized, so it is just that we know that we defend ourselves a little and it is also wrong, it is like doubting that will to go out and compete with the world to undertake your adventure, what? TRUE? and taking the risks and the business risks and the risks of discipline and the risks of responsibility and shoring up and supporting the family system and the community system, all of that is incredibly laudable, but to me it's more than that because I think of it as a bulwark against hell and I mean both literally and metaphorically it's like it's really vital that you take your place in the world and find a meaningful and responsible path forward because it's on that path that you find the meaning of your life and that underpins you. against the catastrophe of life and if you have if you don't have that you have aimlessness and suffering and futility and your own malevolence and bitterness is hell, yes, and then you make hell for yourself and you make hell for yourself family and you make hell for the community it's like none of it is good and every time I see people moving away from it, they are moving forward and telling me about it, I believe and I really think it's great, it's a miracle, keep it up. like it's really important and I don't care what you're doing, you know, and I have a lot of respect for working class kids.

I mean, I come from a small town. I've had all kinds of working class jobs, you know? I worked in a I worked as a fast food cook and I worked as a waiter in a rough cowboy bar a couple of them I worked as a drill Reid temperament and gas jockey Anna and I worked in the railway equipment post on Lion's Foot railway lines and I worked as a beekeeper and then I made plywood, a lot of jobs like that, yeah, you know, and I've renovated houses, and I've worked with a lot of contractors, etc., and I think I like working. class guys, the whole damn world rests on their shoulders, it really matters if they do a good job, that's why a lot of working class guys come to my shows and say look, I've been listening to your lectures, well, that's me.

I'm doing long distance hauling or while working on my forklift or whatever. I think big man, go away and do your job properly. Bet and do it well. Support your family man. Live a responsible life and what! what you are doing is valuable. I don't care what others have to say about it. Yeah, I heard I'm in a 12-step program on the right, so I wasn't out. You know I'm in recovery. Almost two years ago and that really changed my life by coming to a new you know, twelve steps and you know, we will know and I know that's your book, but one of the things that stayed in this esteem will be that people esteem the Abul stuff and it's like it and it's like when you have the option to do something better than alcohol, yeah, yeah.

The funny thing is that if you're trying to stop drinking you need something better than alcohol and alcohol is quiteyou would like the answer You will get the answer and it will not be an answer you like and it will not be something you like to admit. You might think well, it's only 5% of my fault. Still, it's like, okay, but at least it's 5%, so you. You can go back to your wife and you could tell her here's the stupid thing I've done to contribute to this and I found out about it and I'll try not to do it again and you know I'm sorry I'm so dumb yeah and maybe if she's done the same thing she can tell you the same thing and then maybe now you both feel a little humiliated in the right way, you can actually have a discussion aimed at solving the problem instead of achieving victory, yeah, why do we have to? to be right like I don't have to be be right unless you're already right enough and if you think you're right see if your life is perfect and everything is exactly how you want it to be you're right man good for you yeah I've met someone like that yet and especially when you relate to others, that's when you have to, you know, sometimes you don't have to be the right one for just everyone, one thing that's worth thinking about in Nightline, this a little bit.

In this book, 12 rules for life are: Do you want to make friends with what you know or do you want to make friends with what you don't know? And then you could do it because it's a good question like Well, what I know, that's all. safe and it's easy let's say it's easy it's fortified and it's worked it's like yeah it's okay but it's insufficient or unless everything is perfect which it's not then it's insufficient okay well well if you make friends with what you don't know and then you get into an argument with someone and they tell you something you don't know, then you have a chance to be a little smarter and if you're trying to avoid hell, let's say it, it helps to be a little smarter.

It's wiser and so even if you're having a bitter argument with someone you know, maybe you can separate a little bit of the wheat from the chaff and you can think that yeah, well, most of what you're saying is a nonsense, but you know there's a point you raised. there it's like pointing out that's a point that you made, it pointed me somewhere maybe somewhere a little more valuable, but I learned something and that's also why it's so helpful to talk to people who disagree with you mm -hmm it's like of course they are wrong, they don't agree with you, yes, well, but maybe you are wrong about something, and people are right and people want to feel, they just appreciate it, even if even if they don't you agree with them, sometimes it is at least. appreciating that they're presenting just listening yeah well Carl Rogers was very helpful he's a psychotherapist he had some really helpful advice on this it's one of the rare pieces of advice that I think actually works in psychotherapy because it's mostly suggestions people find out what they have to do they have to find out you facilitate that right Roger said look if you're having an argument with someone this really works if it's someone close to you it's like you're having a bitter argument it's like this is the rule you have you say so I'm going to say what you told me but you have to accept that I did it well mmm well and then and then the other way around I have my piece and then you can say what I said you don't have to agree, that's not the point, but you have to formulate my argument in a way that I agree with, so you'll boil it down to its essence and realize that you're not going to treat me like a jerk or a straw man. true, and one of the things that Rogers pointed out is that if you do that, the discussions tend to become productive um so it's a love, it's a lovely technique, it really works because you immediately recognize what they say you're doing. at least worse and at least you're listening listening is if you listen to someone sometimes if you listen to someone they discover the limits of their own argument they think oh so they put it out there and they think oh well I'm really not As angry about it as I thought or oh , that's not exactly what I meant or maybe there's something else going on here that I didn't understand, like you let them explain everything and keep quiet while they stumble.

At that point, they sometimes stumble upon something a little more productive and that helps too. I also think this is something that happens a lot between men and women, where a woman will get angry about something and come and tell her and his husband. You will try to solve problems as if now and you think the problem must be salsa style, why is it not okay for her? And the answer is that she hasn't fully formulated the problem, so you have to wait. Well, she stumbles and no. that women do that more than men that's not my point well she stumbles says well here's why I think I'm upset here's a possibility here's another possibility here's another possibility maybe you have to listen to ten possibilities before the question arises. real problem because it's not like people always know why they're angry, right, sometimes they get especially angry in that moment, yeah, and then maybe something triggered it yesterday at work and they knew their boss said something rude and they've Been a little worried about that. day and that has made them irritable and then they criticize something trivial, you think well, what the hell is wrong with you?

It still bothers me and it's like it takes a lot of digging to get to the bottom of it so you have to shut up and let that happen and then maybe you can think, how can we solve this problem? But if you jump in too soon, you'll elude him. In the process of exploration you can't solve a problem unless you formulate it properly and that's one of the things that I think is so difficult today in an hour, especially in the US, I find it especially similar in the mainstream, it's like there's no The discussion is like yeah, well, these long conversations are changing, they're changing that and maybe pretty quickly too, yeah, oh look, I'm so quick at this, there were times when I thought, damn, will I ever be able to do it?

I have some kind of career in this world that I want to have a career in and then I watch a lot of TV shows like these, yeah people just don't watch them but there's no authenticity to them anymore because I'd rather watch them. someone makes mistakes at least if they try to be, yes, absolutely fine, that's good because that's life, people are okay, people make mistakes while trying to be, that's life, so if I don't find it attractive, there will be real issues. and it just turns people off it's like I can't tell if I like it there are so many accusations that it's racism things these days now I say if I feel like there's racism in me right somewhere inside me yeah and if it was you know who knows where could I have learned it from yeah who knows if any of that is justifiable in the sense that a race was violent towards me or you did something towards me that did to me or someone of a race did something you know but it's like If there are these people today they just want me to sign a paper that would say: oh at some point I was racist or I promise I will never be racist but whatever it is that doesn't help me solve whatever it is that doesn't help me get to what let it be if there is any discomfort in me about any racial issue, even about my own race, it doesn't help me get to that well if you don't let people make mistakes and be stupid, you can do that.

Don't let them be at all, yeah, you know, and that's actually the big part of the reason for freedom of speech. It's like we have to stumble around like idiots to stumble upon the truth. You're going to say stupid things. We will stay saying. wrong things, yeah, that's why it wasn't an expensive speech book if we needed to make it free because we're going to ramp it up a lot, yeah, it was like it has to be free, because we're going to use a lot to figure out where we're going, yeah, exactly , that's right, if there was a cost, yes, if it was too high.

Good point man, that's a good way to think about it, but yeah, you know that and that's something that I, there's something that you have a gift for and I don't know if it's something learned or if you feel like it's just something that you know from a higher power. that you're a conduit for this that you don't sound too much you sound like a no, it's um but no It doesn't sound like a no at all, always in myself in my audience that I'm talking to like maybe you need to improve, it's we need to improve. , yeah, and I'm there, man, I've got a group of people who could use a radical upgrade and you think not, definitely, yeah, absolutely, look, I mean, yeah, too.

Sometimes I like five, I'm just talking to myself because I hope that somewhere in all this it helps myself mm- Hmm, you know, or that when someone calls, you'll know like it's crazy how many people call with thoughts, feelings and things like that, and that shows me something I never knew and you might understand that in the questions. that people ask you a look I mean, I'm not as tough as I could be I'm not as smart as I could be I'm not as musically talented as I could be like I haven't read as much as I could read I don't know enough about history like I have endless things I could be doing better, right, yeah, well, I'd like to do better, but they're endless, so I'm trying to keep my eyes open and calculate.

Okay, what can I do better and would the world be a better place if I were a better person? So I'm going to try to be a better person and I'm trying to figure it out because it's important that you're in the conversation man, yeah, and I think the people that you engage to talk to often in these long discussions is the same thing that's there in the audience of people who need to improve, yeah, at least when the dialogue is going well, you know, when I hear the last caller come up with a question like that, yeah, that's a real question, man, it's like something to deal with, so I like it, I like that man, yeah, they say. you know this is a tower, I live in Tennessee, not a question for Jordan Pederson Jordan, when you look back on your life when you were older, what do you think your most important contribution will be?

And I don't mean the things you've done, but the things. you might be planning on doing that and I really appreciate you doing all this and inviting me so thank you all and thank you Jordan bye well I think making this link between responsibility and meaning is a good thing and I've summarized it quite a bit in the first book I wrote, which was meaning maps, the audio version is out now by the way, and it's a very difficult book, but I think the audio version is understandable, so if you like the 12 rules for life , you and you want. to dig deeper, that's a good place to dig in and the tests I took last night will also help, yeah, yeah, that's another thing we didn't do and we didn't talk about.

I have this online test called understand myself, calm down, which I would recommend. It will give you a description of your personality according to the Big Five model, extraversion neuroticism, which is sensitivity to negative emotions, agreeableness, conscientiousness and openness, and then divides each of them into two subtraits. , so I would say it's really useful for you. To do that, find out where your strengths and weaknesses are, what your character is, but it's also very helpful for the people around you to do that because you'll discover that there are things about them that you do know, things that you like.

From the things with my father I could never understand my father because somehow because it was difficult to get him to be something like enthusiastic about an adventure something like that he was not an enthusiastic person idea right? I knew it was going well he was in a sense while he took the test anyway and extraversion is divided into assertiveness and enthusiasm he has very little enthusiasm but he hides his assertiveness oh I see he is assertive he can introduce himself he has four three he likes to hunt but he doesn't It's, he's not an enthusiastic, cheerful person, it's just not in his temperament, I thought, oh that's interesting, that was really helpful, do you feel like you got back to him the same way or not, right?

I'm excited yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty excited and I was watching like my mom in that sense, yeah, so do you find it? It's great to be a little like your mother. Well, my mother is a very good person. She was what I really liked about my mother. One thing is that she could always make her laugh, so we share what you know about her and her. I thought she had a good sense of humor and I used it a lot with her and that was really good, but she was also 100% behind me which was great and she was my mother she's a good person you know she's a nice person she's loving. person but she has a strong man and she did not market or feed her children oh yes, she is also a very hard worker, so she did, she had that right to take care of us and she was on our side, but she threw out. in the world and she didn't interfere, so I could see that that's one of your steps in your book, doesn't there have to be a little bit of danger when children play, oh yeah, it's the twelfth step?

I think yeah, yeah, oh, don't bother the kids on skateboarding, yeah, yeah, 'cause they're right, 'cause if you're going to make your kids tough, which they better be if they're going to survive in the world, then you can't interfere when they. We are doing dangerous things carefully hmmmm and maybe not evenlook at the forest and each Knight looks and sees where the forest seems darkest to him and that's where he stars, it's like, that's wisdom and me. I learned that Carl Jung also derived a saying from alchemy instruction: it is the inventory, which means that what you need to find the most will be found where you least want to look closely, but what is so interesting and this I did not expect, is that If you look in the darkest darkness you find the brightest light and I never expected that, but that's what happened.

I thought, oh, this is horrible, horrible, even beyond what I could comprehend, but the light that can overcome that exists, the light that can overcome. that which exists is really real and I think that the instinct that we have manifests within us as meaning, which is what you feel, for example, when you listen to music that you really love, you feel that sense of intrinsic meaning, that meaning is a guide to the light and try to I don't want to say metaphorically but religiously but I also mean biologically correct actually that sense of meaning is the guide to the light that conquers the darkness and the darkness is dark is really dark but that means The light means that the light It has to be a lot brighter and I really think I love that and you and since you got there it's like it's so real man it seems so real when you say it for some reason. because you've done the work that you've seen, you know you've tried to start at that darkest point and then say that, oh, that's the thing because what if that's not the story, then there's no story, it's like that has to be it. the story we're going to that ends in pathi that ends that goes up otherwise there's nothing if that's not the story yeah well that's a very good way to look at it I think that's right who would do it ? he never chooses anything he says it's so useless no there's no it's just a terrible facility it's it's Satan's it's Satan's maxim that things are so terrible that it would be better if there was nothing at all yes that's rude there's there's a whole line of Germans literature speculative literature that was that was that was presented by a man called Goethe who wrote a play called Faust about a man who possessed a soul to the devil for knowledge and the characteristics of Mephistopheles in Faust he is the tempter he is the Satan himself and his creed is life is so terrible it would be better if it was replaced by nothing hmm separating is an apocalyptic wish not to have that there yes we are all yes well that's the third time man I didn't know if I would do it but you know if I think e even the first thing because like my little niece, I saw her this

weekend

, you know, and she was smiling, yeah, she had a cup full of chips and she was laying on the dog's back that she just met this dog. , if I.

I'm putting it in his mouth and I'm thinking there exists better than that exists, there you go, that's it, if a million people had lost whatever happened in the past, yeah, there's a moment right now that makes you know and I don't. I don't even know if she knew, you know she's only 2 or something so we don't even really know each other, but there's just one little moment where maybe everything works out well, so you know, in the last chapter of my book, it's called pet account when to find one yes and it's about the experiences I had in my family when my daughter was incredibly sick and suffering like crazy it's good because that's the real borderline case it's worth it it's good what's up When a child suffers an innocent child? she's suffering terribly it's like well how do you justify that?

Some of it is good, some of the advice in that chapter is practical, but some of it is: you notice those things, you notice those little flashes of beauty, and you notice those little flashes. of that kind of transcendent reality and that's what keeps you going and you saw it with your niece and you can see those things if you keep your eyes open, yeah, and they better keep you alive and what it does to you Yo, what, what , so I realize that if I can do this, then I tell it to someone else, even if it's like a guy, and it seems kind of weird to say it to a guy, like it's showing some vulnerability. for me, yeah, and also showing some ability to pay attention and see, yeah, man, but that makes me give it even more value for some reason, like anything I can do if I can be vulnerable after that in some way, well, it's not just that. you're vulnerable is that you accept vulnerability and transcend it at the same time which is also what comedians do all the time because a comedian always says ha ha ha look that's all we do or there she is we're useless stupid but but we can see that we can get over it, yes we are that stupid and useless, but we can wear the helmet and then comes the next joke and you know, that's why that gesture at Kings Court was so valuable, is he who is the only person I can tell the king the truth hmm, true and the king couldn't get angry because Oh, because that was his thing it was underneath the gesture it was underneath the contempt, you could let him do it, say whatever he wanted, that's why two comedians are a good reference in a society free if comedians don't go where a comedian can't go, that's tyranny mmm, where can't they go?

University campuses, you know? City campus, right, the comedian says, I'm not going there, it's like, oh, why is that a thing? Because the King is so tyrannical of T Roenick that he can't, he will kill the jester. It's like he's a tyrant. We have a question related to that about the yes that Nicki was talking about. Hey, well, the show is a big fan of yours. Great admirer of Professor Peterson. I have a question for Peterson: When does he think all these Marxist-leaning professors really rose to prominence in academia because I graduated from a philosophy program in 2011 and just didn't seem that radical or left-wing? leaning towards me in the other culture, so I'm wondering if there are any very recent changes or teachers who have risen to prominence in recent years or if this has been their session.

I just went to a more sensible place, that's a good question and I was listening to Joe Rogan talking about how you think a lot of this started on college campuses, you know you know some of this crazy thinking and either way you can answer this question, but well, the ideas have been lurking. for a long time and have manifested themselves in various forms of Marxism throughout the 20th century and, of course, that has its historical precursors. I mean, there was a big rise of leftist thought in the 1960s and then it faded away. to some extent during the 1970s and 1980s and then re-emerged in the 1990s, there was a big rise in political correctness in the early 1990s and then, probably because the American economy just started growing, that faded away and then in the 1990s.

In the last five years everything has been completely fine, it's just that we reached a turning point of some kind and why I don't know, and maybe in the philosophy department you were a little Don't worry, your philosophy is actually one of the few disciplines in the world. humanities of the spectrum that seems to have been relatively uncorrupted. Don't know. I think we've reached a tipping point of some sort and it could also be that more and more administrators have become politically correct, so it's not just about the faculty members. so do administrators and some of that is under legislative pressure, so it's not just the universities' fault.

I don't know, I think you know something can be the same for a long time and be slowly changing, so a growing minority of people. they're radicalized and people with opposing views are excluded and then suddenly there's so many of them that the whole thing just timpz and something like that has happened and I mean it's been pretty well documented by people like Jonathan Height. it's like there are no conservatives in the social sciences, so even middle-of-the-road liberals will like me that's basically where I stand politically it's like I'm a classical liberal it's like well you're right-wing it's like he's just comparing himself to you Michael laughs that's how I moved here and I felt more liberal than the environment I was from and then I came out here and you can't even, I mean, men, I was, you couldn't even talk during it, I was afraid to speak because of my accent, yeah, for having a southern accent at any point during the election, like I believe in that and also from an industry that's supposed to be so tolerant, it's like Holly saying we accept everyone, but still you know. and I talked about this and I thought, you know, black actors and actresses, where haven't we been begging for the Golden Globes to be included two years ago, or for the Academy Awards to be included, you know, saying that they weren't getting So? and there's no one like that for the amount of people that live in the area that I'm from, there's no one, there's two or three people with southern accents even on television, you know or in, it's true, I don't know, I just I.

I have never felt less welcome in a place in my life that I fought so hard to get to and I have. I've had a problematic relationship with this industry at times, but luckily things like podcasts and things like that are starting. to book people are starting to at least at least I can have some kind of voice because I can, you know, create my own and my voice is not even a bad voice, like I'm trying to come from a great place, but it's I just don't know if this ever felt less welcome, kind of like mm-hmm well, you're creating your own audience, yeah, so more power to you, yeah, you know that, and you haven't been doing it for a long time. , so no, yeah, come on.

A year and a half, yeah, I mean, yeah, and it's amazing how the audience comes and then how they encourage you and that makes you feel, it doesn't make you feel emboldened, but it makes you feel like a man. I can trust my instincts, yes. a little bit, right, right, exactly, were you always able to trust your instincts in your life? Did you feel like I was probably capable of doing it? That doesn't mean he did. Yes, did you have problems? I have a tribe, yes, that's terrible, calibrating my incense man when I was young when I was about 23 or 24 years old and I started doing the work that culminated in my first book that took me about 15 years.

I had this summary in the preface of the book. I had this experience. It was just starting. understand that it wasn't actually a good idea to say things that weren't true and that you didn't believe were true and then I'm sorry. I started thinking about that and I was also starting to struggle with this problem of malevolence in the At the same time, those two things became entangled and somehow I had this experience where I was divided in a sense and a part of me was the part previous that I spoke as if it were some kind of combat of talkers and I You still know that I still talk a lot, it was always part of my nature and I, but a part of me separated and I was watching the part that spoke, it was going well, don't believe That's not really true. that's not really your idea it's like you're just saying that to sound smart you're just trying to win this argument very critically.

I thought, oh, what the hell is going on? This part that is critical is correct and the other part is not so good. right, the part that talks the most is good and what the hell is going on with this critical part? I didn't know and I didn't think it was okay, but I realized that there were some things that the critical party wouldn't object to when I said I wouldn't object and I thought, okay, what if I tried not to say anything to what I'm saying? critical part would object and then I would do it?

Say something and he would object and I think you know I didn't do it right and then he would try to rephrase it and I would continue to rephrase it and finally when I got to the point where I stopped saying most of those things and this critical part stopped objecting and then I realized I realized that all the things I was saying that the critical part was against were actually things that were weakening me. Wow, and they're not the whole truth, no, they weren't, they weren't. not at all like I thought Oh, 95 percent of what I said was some kind of lie, right, wow, 95 percent man, that's a lot, but that's another comedy, it's part of the comedy at the beginning of the comedy, It's like he's just telling jokes to learn how. to tell jokes a lot of times I say make up filler and then now I've become more authentic and that's when things have definitely gotten brighter, whether it's associated with that authenticity, finding your authentic voice, yeah right, which one is the voice that you have the right to is something like that, yeah, you've also taken responsibility for both, oh, that's interesting, although a voice that you have the right to, yeah, well, because I have these ideas that I could say, but I don't They were my ideas I had no right to them I have not earned them even though I was able to formulate the idea as I took them from the books I say ah so I could be a spokesperson for the ideas but I did not have a Of course they were not mine, I did not I had won them, yes, and that's crazy.

I feel like there's a different type of person in the world who has had to take responsibility for themselves, you know, and this had to earn their voice. so they have a real voice, they have a real voice and they're not just saying things, they're not spraying like a donkey, yeah, what happens in Pinocchio, right, yeah, he ends up transformed into a braying donkey because he's not there.telling the truth. Yeah, right, your brain, idiot, is like, well, you have to earn it, you have to rescue your father from the abyss so you can earn your voice, yeah, that's right, yeah, that's exactly to the depths and you have to seriously go in there mm-hmm. come in, let's listen, yeah, this is good, let's listen to this and this is more of a comment to both of us, not a question, thank you both gentlemen, because I'm in a better place now in my life than I ever was, you know?

And those are big changes from the man he was six months ago, you know, and they were both there when the gears started turning and they've been there throughout and I'm making this call now, so I just want to say thank you. I hope they keep doing what they do, you know, giving strength and guidance to people like me, you know, people like the man I was six months ago because I wasn't stuck six months ago, you know I was getting worse. I know this and I have done nothing but improve so that gap continues to widen.

Things continue and I don't know. There is something so powerful. It's such a powerful thing to do and I hope you continue. You know, I pray that you do it and that God bless you both. Thank you. Hey man, this guy is a good video. Yes, that's great. DS is great. Don't stay stuck, you get worse I guess. The swamp doesn't stop rotting, the bar just gets deeper and deeper, there's no stagnation and it stays the same, there's just stagnation and worse now, that was great, that's what it feels like to be doing this tour, yeah, and you know that you will notice this while it looked great it was here it looks great yes yes and then it was sincere right and then it is moving it is in sincerity you talked about yourselves moving uh yes yes well sincerity is moving it takes you to a better place that was cool and that's the kind of thing people tell me when I'm on this tour and when they can't get enough of it, like, sure, man, things are better for you, hooray, and is there any way I can Do you realize that you could have avoided that? build that way that landing in an educational place for you and that landing in an ego place for you oh well, it's just that I'm like well, I'm not attributing it to myself, right, I'm attributing it to what What do you know?

To the extent that I have been able to facilitate it, it is because I have had the privileged right of having time to read all those great doctors and put them into practice. It's like the wisdom that is the wisdom that I have. Am I not inventing wisdom that helps people redeem themselves? Here's a Sherpa. Yes, that's exactly as far as I can be. I'm not taking credit for this. I learned this from Carl. Jung also wrote an essay called The Relationship Between the Ego and the Unconscious, which is exact about it, it is difficult to know what it is about unless you know what it is about and this is what it is about, he said, don't be confused with wisdom. don't do that it's like because wisdom is eternal right there is no being here before you and that will be here after you are gone and maybe if you are lucky you can you can you can close the gap you can you can take advantage of it you can you can submerge you can dip your cup in it maybe you can do that but you're it's like you know you're the surfer and you're not the wave it's like you "You may be the cup, but you're not the well, so you need to know that, and when I hear this I think , well, yes, of course, what I hear is that yes, this information had the same effect on me, so yes, hooray, but I don't think that then I have done that it's like no, I'm happy to be part of this is what which I think, I'm glad to be a part of this and that's definitely the case, yeah, what I heard is that you are grateful to be the cup, you remember it well and I'm so happy.

I think when I hear someone say that, I think okay, you're not descending into hell and that's great because if you're going to hell. deep enough that you can take a lot of people with you yes, okay, at least you are like that, this gentleman is much less likely to do reprehensible and terrible things, that is a big plus, but it also seems that it is one of the things Well, yes, it is everything. he's on the path, he's doing more for himself and maybe it's good for other people too. God only knows how it could manifest because people are quite remarkable and if they stop getting in their own way it's like the sky is the limit. right, and it really, really is heaven, it really is literally a rise, man, only God knows what we'll come up with.

I mean, look what we've come up with in the last 20 years, yeah, and who knows where we could go, especially if we all. Of us were working together, man, who knows where we might end up. I love it, it makes you want to play another one, you know, dr. Pearson, I'm a big fan of yours and I really enjoyed his event at the Beacon Theater in New York City in March, but my question to you is how do you manage to maintain your colon, your stones, and the highly stressful situations that you know? In my opinion, you are kind of the Canadian psychological version of the fine and one situation I would like to refer to is during the debate of the month in which Michael Tyson, I believe his neighbor, made that comment referring to you as a white man crazy and evil and you I know you managed to stay on topic, don't let it get you mad or anything, and I mean it.

Things you wanted to tell him, kamancheh, stay on topic and stay calm so you know that I don't have any advice on how. Doing that would be great today, that's a great question, it's great when we get nervous, how do we stay calm so we can stay on message and indirect? Well, you have to decide what you're aiming for, you know, and I. I mean in a fundamental sense because that helps you stay oriented, you know, I'm not trying to cause excessive damage to the world and part of what you do is when you get attacked, you can defend yourself with the minimum force necessary and really I mean it's a real art to use minimal force and it works much better, it's a much more effective form of defense, so I didn't let what he said go unchallenged, I told him there was no excuse to bring it in like he did.

You can call me a bad nut, that's fine because maybe it's true and you're certainly entitled to that opinion, but adding white to that seemed to bring in an arbitrary element of racism and that's what I said and it was a pretty good defense, but also, in There's no harm in those public forums at all in letting people expose their agenda, so if you think your attack was something good or bad, it's uncomfortable and can be aggravating. but it's not necessarily bad to let people who attack you for unjustified reasons reveal their entire agenda. Do you see their weapons?

Well, yeah, I knew you can see them, right? Okay, what are you? even attack me well it's because you're bad it's like maybe continue with your attack right now I'll do it with me right now so learn a lot about me yeah if that's the question it's who is this taco who is this attack Well maybe it's about from me, maybe it's about you, yeah, and if that's public, it's like I'm willing to let the attacks progress, to the extent that I can handle it, because I think I hope that Maybe it's about the attacker and not about me, you know an ounce, it's a complicated game, in a sense, a high stress game because there are things about me, you know, because nobody's perfect, yeah, sure, and some of the hits land, but most over time and this has happened over and over again it's like no, the attacks reveal more about the attacker than I do, yeah, and that's been good and then that's kind of weird, it's like, well, why would I think Is this attack bad?

It's uncomfortable, it's stressful and all that, but some of the best things that have happened to me, let's say, in the medium and long term in the last two years, have come directly from the cruelest and most unjustified attacks. It's like, well, no, they didn't use them. knives, so that's good, recover from that, you know, so I know there's a limit to this kind of argument when you like, similarly, in comedy I sometimes used to think that it's always me who says things fun, art can generate the most credibility. with the audience, but now I realize that almost the moments when I am silent reveal more about the story.

Sometimes it's a bit the opposite of what you say. The use of silence is quite useful. I never thought of that as something that would reveal something right, whereas you would never think that if someone attacks you sitting quietly or you know the minimum response using the most effective response right, because retaliation isn't even retaliation, they aren't even retaliation. Well, disorganized, well, the thing is you have the right and maybe even the responsibility to defend yourself, but the question is what is the most effective defense and it's kind of like when you're disciplining children, it's like, how much force do you use? ? you use the minimum necessary, the absolute minimum necessary now, that takes a lot of judicious interaction, it takes a lot of judgment to do it absolutely right, but it's the same thing in a public forum, it's like, how much should I defend myself?

Well, it turns out my experience. has taught me over and over again the minimum force needed, so it's probably even better, well, it's not better to err on the side of less force, you don't want to make a mistake at all, but a little detachment, a little patience, a little faith in the judgment of the audience. that's the other thing is because that's the other thing I think that if this if everything goes well then people will make the right judgment not everyone, of course, not everyone, but wisdom will prevail, right, that's what I think I'm Willing to do.

I'm willing to see if that's the case. I'm willing to assume that will be the case. How do you prepare for the debate? Is it like you had a Gatorade or something before? Can you make bubble water? The only thing I eat is sparkling water and friend, so I have some glitter, it's a lot of fun, these tours and if you're a tour, if you're renting theaters, they ask you what you want before the tour, so you can specify it. whatever, more cautious and prosciutto, well that's how I'll have six six bubbly waters, that's all you want, it's like yeah, I know it's really sad.

I could have 20 dancers and hold my fan stone, you have some water, put some bubbles in it, man. because we're having a real party, so what's like a um and I know you have one, you know your special diet, but it's like, uh, what's a guilty pleasure, tell me you have a Ricci Cup in a peanut butter cup now , Yes, good. That's actually all I eat and I never cheat. Period, that's what I eat now. I hope to expand that again as I experiment with what I can. tolerate but now it's like I'm religious I never cheat I eat meat and salt and water and that's it I know it's crazy why you're like a ninja I said it sounds like something it's not like some weird Japanese ridiculous huh but it works yeah that It's what has helped me a lot and it has cured my daughter and it works for you and it works with your blood ties before you say your daughter and for anyone else, but it works for her and it has worked for my wife like Well, very good, what is something special?

The music is a pleasure. I mean, I have a car. I rented the car. I rented a Mustang GT which I really like upright and it has a nice loud stereo so I love loud music. I love getting close. sports car listening to music at full volume. I like this a lot. I could do that. I did it all the time when I was a kid. It's not a sports car. But what kind of music are you listening to? I don't see anything from James Blake, maybe or. some Chopin, oh you know, yeah I said that, really listen to classical music in a convertible because the dynamic range is what you miss the most and you're scaring people, well that's also like, what the hell is it?

I know I like it, I mean. I listen to all kinds of dinosaur rock, but I have a big collection of music that goes from the 1930s to now, you know, and my son and my daughter bring me something new, relatively new, nice, like for me, if you have five years. Still new, you know, I really like the Canadian band Arcade Fire, oh yeah, cool. I like Beach House. I like the name of the band. I do not remember the name. It's like Seattle vodka-vodka-vodka. Oh wow, they play our kind of Russian-oriented Folk Rock, which is really hard rock.

I like it a lot. I really think they're cool and like Gogol Bordello, they're like "oh man, they're wild." They have a song called "start wearing purple", you should see it on there, the guy who is the lead singer. He's just a wild man, he's got an accent you can't believe exists, he sounds like a parody of an Eastern European accent, he sounds like he's faking it or something, yeah, like that, exactly, yeah, he's like Borat, If that's correct, if Borat had a rock. band, this would be in Gogol Bordello. I love them, well if they love Tom Waits, I'll watch it, yeah, and I love the UM weight guy.

I think he's absolutely great, he's one of those guys who is as tough as a damn boot. I love it. look at him who's the talk show host had always made fun of all the newly retired Dave Letterman Letterman yeah, because Letterman was pretty tough like ah hey, I like Letterman too, but pretty much no celebrities bullied him, right ? Tom Waits, the man America was intimidated by, Beckham really was. funny because they're like Letterman, like a little kid around Tom Waits, while Tom Waits is so tough and cool and such a bloody genius that he and every time he pulls aalbum I think, oh Jesus, Tom, you went crazy this time.

It's too much, I can't listen to this, it's too harsh and I listen to it like five times and I think God knocked it out of the park, yeah, and also what about Leonard Cohen? Did you hear it? Oh yes, definitely. I loved Leonard Cohen, yes, yes, he was very sad when he died. I saw a Leonard Cohen concert about five years ago and I was like 82 years old and it was like a religious experience. Wow, everyone gave him a standing ovation when he showed up. It was that Sony Centro, so the acoustics were great and he just nailed it, he got better and better as he got older, like Johnny Cows made cash, yeah he got better on his last few albums, man he was in a transcendent space, that song, yeah, it was on he was in the zone, he was the only older guy so that's for sure.

Do you feel like things change as you get a little older? Because I mean, you look very young and you look extremely healthy. Are all your diets meat? I know you definitely seem like I'm surprised I didn't catch you eating grass outside, you know, but are you starting to have feelings for herbivores? It's hard to feel something, no, because you turned into a cow, yes, yes, oh, but you start. feeling like something is different as you get older, are you noticing anything? Well, my family means more and more to me. Wow, I'd say that's what it's become.

I mean, they've always wanted to say a lot, but you realize that even deep down. That's definitely why you want to have kids, man, it's because you're going to get older, it's not the only reason to have kids and there are a lot of reasons to have kids, but the older you get, the more important your family is, you know? I don't know why it is exactly it's why not exactly why friend it could be because he gets smarter you get wiser it's like you guys are very important to me it's very important that we do this right and maybe you want something in the world to know that you loved it yeah, yeah, well that's what I mean, that's right, that's the focus, yeah, that's where it's at and it turns out it's really important, so yeah, and I'll have a new grandson and that is. really cool, oh but it must be, how old is he now?

She must be about nine months old so I haven't seen her in a month that's funny because they're starting to move around a lot even now man that's a huge blessing we have one more question and then we'll do it and be done I guess in relation with the kids, here's one about Santa Claus. Okay, I love Santa Claus, so he'll love the park. The messages from him to Jordan Peterson. I don't know what you think about addressing Santa Claus. Claus with kids and when and what age is a good time to make sure he's not the one kicking live, no you don't want to move, good to know, yeah, but you don't want him to be the one laughing, yeah, is better. in Canada you guys are closer to Santa to deal with this move, yeah exactly, it's more real, man, oh yeah, that's a good question.

I would say if you are doing everything you can to reward your child for being awake and alert and thinking. things you probably don't have to worry about it because if he is smart and with that he won't be the first or the last, he won't be and if he is the first he won't tell the other kids and it will ruin it. whether if he is together, then I would say don't worry too much, it's a good game to play with kids, Santa Claus, you know? and it's based on the idea that if you're good, there will be There will be something in this for the future and then you know you might think well, it's a lie to tell your kids that Santa Claus exists, but it's not a lie, it's a game, it's like a drama or a play, it's a lot, I mean.

Like a movie, it's not a lie, it's true, it's fictional but it's not a story, a lie is a story and Santa Claus is a fiction, it's a small theater that you have with your family and your child will realize it and start asking questions and I would say when they ask you you can say look, it's a game we play and it's a fun game and it's for kids and now you're older and good for you you're growing up and you figured it out and you give them a pat for being so smart you say, well, when you're older you can play. to Santa Claus with your kids and then you'll have fun too, so you understand because it's a bit of a loss when a child realizes that Santa Claus doesn't exist and maybe they feel a bit silly and can't trust their parents, It's true that they don't usually do it, but if you tell them, look, it's a game, it's a theatrical game and you play it for children, now you've realized it.

So it means you're getting older and more mature and you give them a path that you say is good for you and it wasn't that fun and then that's the end of that and then you can do it again when you've done it. grandchildren, if you're lucky, yes, but if your child, if you're lucky, if you reward them for being smart, they'll realize, you don't have to worry too much about it, is there anything like that? Is it difficult to have you as a Father, do you think that for your children you mean now? Yeah, I think it's probably always been difficult in some ways because I'm a bit of a strange person, right, but I think it's okay, you're definitely a unique person, okay?

So yeah, I guess that's what I think. I mean, I guess how you feel about your kids having Jordan Peterson as a father. Well, I think it's been good. I have a very good relationship with others. You know, and I've had a good relationship with them. my children since they were little I really liked being with them and we have done I like them when they were little children I like them when they were little I like them when they were teenagers we have had a great relationship forever and we still have a very good relationship so I think It's been very good, you know, I've always assumed that they had given me the opportunity, they would be sensible enough and I called them a lot, you know, to be sensible, um, my two.

My daughter and my son It was complicated with my daughter because she was very sick but my son has been a damn soldier and as he expected since he was little he is like you, you, you, you, you, you, I expected it. abide by the truth and be a responsible person since he was little and he always was and like he was in the decisions and he was great, his sister trusted him when she was sick and he was around and he didn't cause any excessive problems, no, you know my son, Julian, is perfectly capable of getting into the right amount of trouble and probably won't, yes, but he kept it to himself and didn't bring any of his problems home. except when it was absolutely necessary and he didn't add any additional burden to us, well, we were completely overwhelmed by my daughter's illness, so I was incredibly impressed with that which was between when he was 13 and 16, give or take, yeah, and he believes. a child then, because you know, if anything, he might also have some unknown jealousy that he feels because, when he was a child, he got more attention, of course, well, my daughter even got jealous of herself because she was jealous because her illness It took over everything. the attention mmm, right, so it was worse in a way for my son, how did you put that to the test?

I'm sorry, oh how it tested your faith when your daughter got sick? Did you have any? Were you very afraid? Well, it just made not being inhaled more important, right, because there was no time for that, yeah, there was barely enough time for things to keep happening, any further problems mm-hmm, we'd be done, yeah, so luckily we had reduced the problem to a minimum at that time. my wife and I our relationship was good my relationship was solid with my son it was solid with my parents it was solid with my in-laws like everything was in its place and of course that was the most important thing with the immediate family and that was thanks to God, you know the bow was cocked, there was no crack between the Timbers when the flood came, we didn't find it in synchronization thirteen, yeah, we were a team and really, and thank God, because there's no way we would.

I would have made it otherwise mm-hmm my daughter wouldn't have made it and only God knows what that would have done to the rest of us so we made it and now she's healthy so thank God for that it's a miracle When you're out of town, Mikey, you're on tour right now, how's your wife taking Jeremy coming with me, oh yeah, travel? I saw a cute caller who said he hadn't seen many laughs. obviously you know you're basic for two years but then I saw a video of you talking about your wife and you guys were kids and you were laughing all the time and I thought it was pretty true yeah well you laughed a lot. today yeah yeah well today with you oh that's true wait man yeah we had a great time Jordan thank you so much as we know we really appreciate you being here it was a pleasure talking to you and your audience, yes, and the opportunity.

Yes, we will follow you, support you, learn and question you as you go. Yeah, I just think we all feel like we're on this journey together and we're glad you know we are. I'm not alone, absolutely man, that's great, it's great to have the opportunity to talk to your audience and I wish you the best, yes, I know, thank you very much. I'm full and like these leaves I must be, oh, but when it comes to that. I will share this reflection: it will take me a little time to put on the handbrake and let myself go.