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JEFF BERLIN Interview on Sounding Off with Rick Beato

JEFF BERLIN Interview on Sounding Off with Rick Beato
those of you that know bass playing know the name

Jeff

Berlin

he's our guest on

sounding

off coming up next our special guest today is an old friend of mine this is mr.

Jeff

Berlin

he is a legendary bassist we've known each other for a while now he has been out making records for years the first time I heard of you

Jeff

was in the early 80s I have actually as I've shown you your first record champion your first solo record and I've got taking notes I think crossroads lumpy jazz I have a bunch of your solo records you've played with Scott Henderson you've played with Bill Bruford they've Lehmann and you played on road games with Allan Holdsworth welcome I'm very pleased to be here I knew you were developing your your cast your podcast your wrote that your show people will hear me stutter and stammer when it comes to internet issues of you know your broadcast because I'm very computer illiterate and and there's a lot of terms that are very popular today about computers and interactions and webinars and all these things and I'm rather in the in the dinosaur era so you will pardon me is yours a podcast or what is what is it this this is a this is more of it I guess I do I wouldn't say vlogs a vlog is like a video blog but I do lessons and then an

interview

show so this is more of a just one-on-one split-screen

interview

you and I have spoken in the past beyond being a phenomenal bass player you are an educator as well and we've...
jeff berlin interview on sounding off with rick beato
talked a lot about education and philosophy are pinching and you have a lot of great ideas about that and I'd like to talk about about some of that sure I imagined you know talking about ones playing is probably more self-serving than actually going and listening to the music the educational thing that I'm been more and more into came about I should probably start at the beginning I'm 64 I study violin since I'm five and did it ten years of strict training and then God in Iraq which made me a self-taught bass player when the Beatles came out and then I went to Berkeley where at that particular time in history Berkeley only taught music you went to a music lesson you practice the music you went to the class you wrote out the lesson and in that paradigm ironically it was the teachers at Berkeley at that time who would say that music only was the criteria for learning and which drives perfectly with my violin training and after that when I went to New York and became a studio player and on the scene I kept studying with people and finally I was I was actually going up in the indie and into the higher areas of you know the music status in New York where I was hired to play with a lot of people but I chucked it in and went to Boston area I went back to study with Charlie and Binaca who was the capper I would say to the philosophy that music only was principally if not the only method to learn by that was justifiable in music history as well that for whatever number...
jeff berlin interview on sounding off with rick beato
100 years when anybody got you know from from a you know a guy in a house to to the princes and the princesses and the Queen and the king you know the Beethoven Mozart Bach and whomever were all trained only in person specifically with music and when I noticed that based educators veered from that and started to branch off into what might be viewed as alternative methods whatever works for you everything is good or if you want to get into it the technical elements of things slap as a technical thing groove seal playing with a drummer locking with a drummer playing with a click track developing sort of special music unique or whatever they went further into like a depriving oneself of sight playing in a dark room to play a fretless in tune and went on to you know stretching hands as a method in a manner to prevent injury and it was a long list of what I regarded as suspicious methods and it really concerned me because a whole generation today is now affected by the methods and teachings often by the top bass players that influence them the top schools that influence them the base magazines that influence them artists that offer thoughts that might not be trained in music websites that are also this way so through sort of a worldwide event going on where based education has been compromised and a whole new generation has been I hate to say this but brainwashed it's almost like you notice what's happening in Korea these days a lot of people are brainwashed there's...
jeff berlin interview on sounding off with rick beato
literally generations of people who believe that the leader is the leader and that's it and you don't question and you don't ask and ironically bass players that are fans of top bass players or top schools are in the same I believe area where their views of learning are entirely contingent upon the word of the leader their favorite bass teacher their favorite school their favorite website that it must be sacrosanct because they said it and that sort of smites more of a cult view you never question the leader in a cult it's not that the bass teacher is false or the school's fault it's none of they're not responsible for it but generations since the 1980s when bass teachers and columnist started to deviate away from music has now created a generation who when I come on and say look this isn't going to work for you you got to get into music only it is literally a foreign language that I'm saying it actually it infuriates people I am wait can you talk a little bit though about Charlie and why you went there and how how these are connected well you know I was fortunate because I learned violin early and when you learn violin you learn music from day one minute one Charlie was sort of the last in a chain of that philosophy of learning and when I was in in a New York I think I was playing in Bill Bruford band at that time and I had a lot of positive reviews and you know of my bass playing but I knew that I wasn't playing well you know what I...
mean how you you can be honest with your own self and what I did is I just chucked it in I went up to Boston packed event of a car and the truck and moved up to up to Boston and what it would charlie for two years and I did it because I had a more of a need to know about how music worked and how it would profoundly affect that artistic heart that I had that always comes later art always comes later never comes earlier and learning charlie was the godsend for me and for everybody if you ask anybody who's studied with Charlie we all got exactly what we went to him to get which were musical ideas to practice to enlighten us about those particular and individual musical principles and if you do them in a series you are going to become extremely skilled or understanding of a whole lot of musical principles that I never would have learned had I not gone to Charlie I mean I'm so convinced of that so I didn't do it where let's say people study because they want to get a gigai there couldn't be a more erroneous in my opinion view of learning I got to learn so I can get a gig I never did that I learned so I could learn and by learning I you know it was a sort of a fringe benefit I was qualified to play so Charlie we give me a piece I mean I don't have one here but Charlie I get an envelope and I get this but Charlie would send me a page of something with two lines of music on it and a couple of bars of explanation and that little page changed my life because it...
was a principal harmony that was unique and really was it's only I was like a burden a verb is a verb that's really all that it is and Charlie would say I'll give an example he had an exercise where he took a C scale but removed the a out of it so the scale of cdefg B flat C and had me write out 144 original lines in 12 kgs on those two bars on that one board you follow yeah doodoo da da da da da that's line 1 Network applied to VAR da da da and by the repetition and I mean it was just insanely hard and he really gave me a lot of work and that Charlie changed my life changed everybody's lives everybody who got in you know in his good way you know under his tutelage and I became a beneficiary of knowing a lot more about music than bass players do I mean people will say this and say what an ego no it's not an ego it's I'm such an egotist that I'm still studying here in Nashville looking for harmony teachers and you know what I mean it's not ego I know my my industry my instrument and I know who's teaching on it and I know more about the let's say the function of music than a lot of bass players do most bass players and recognize that we get better than pieces and recognize that we get better by musical content since that was what the bass was built to provide anyways mm-hmm so that's in a nutshell for 15 minutes a model own in my part that's my view and that's what Charlie was to me and and that's why I'm sort...
of on the case about trying to guide people toward learning better because a lot of and only the people that are paying to learn if people are self-taught and don't wish to endeavor to learn enough of course that's a personal choice but a lot of people choose to learn they choose to pay money to go to schools they choose to pay money to go to websites and to private teachers and do all sorts of things seeking musical improvement and the ironic thing is and I can say this because I can back this up if people are interested but I know exactly what they need and I know this because that's exactly what I needed so there's a there really is a common element in what we need to learn how to play music we're not there what's happening thing where you know we're all different we learn differently that's been disproven I had a couple articles where at least in the sense of the psychological view of that we're not different we're all pretty much the same and for the most part we all learned the same and the proof of that is how we learn in elementary school junior high school and high school and we all basically learn the same and the results anything pretty positive we all learned English and we can all learn to read and write so the nature that you're different denying you have to learn differently than me only applies to the later status the ability to play at the higher level like you know I would go to you for let's say a higher area...
of arranging or or or line writing whereas if I were to go to a teacher at the beginning to learn how to read music we're all the same learning how to play bass we're all the same we are because it isn't style it's content and I like bass players to realize that that this is why I do what I do because I think a lot of guys aren't aware of this and that's why you know I'm so verbal about trying to get people to learn correctly if they choose to let me ask you

Jeff

know being a bass player you are many times a sideman you don't always do your own records and you're hired to play bass and you accompany people yeah when you come into a session whether it's with Bill Bruford or whether it's with Scott Henderson or Allan Holdsworth and you're coming in to make a record what do you typically do how much reading is involved let's say Allan Holdsworth when you went into road games to make that record how much reading was involved well in those type of records excuse me I'm turning my phone off so it doesn't bother us in our

interview

for full power off J total power off I'm looking for the button that says never wrong and I feel very accomplished by having found it um when you when I did records with these guys it was a different thing as it was a band setting I would propose certain harmonic things the Allan would provide the music because it was his records um when I did my records I provided music I wrote it out yep...
Allan didn't I don't think well build-it actually or base to what the keyboardist did yeah and those are particularly non how do I say this those type of bands are not written firmly and how they should function in the rehearsal or recording mindset did I say that right you know if you're in a group that the rules go out the window because the group develops its own rules in the studio thing that I do which is almost entirely reading yep it is all reading because and then reading is a function because really the the engineer the producer nobody wants to pay me more money than they have to anyway so the provider part it had me play an L the home so it's a foot you know that the reading element and the studio scene which is greatly waned in the ears but when it was during its heyday it was it was a service-oriented industry yeah it there was no art in there there was you go and here's the part play it and leave then you go to the next session and here's another bass part and you play it and you leave so the reading thing was very much in in in action in it in those sessions when you're playing with these people that are the top level people in your industry as you are and you go into a in to make a record how does making a record how did makers making a record differ then when you make it when you made records on tape for example I always like to talk about this because people when people walk into my studio they see it my 2 inch machine and they say...
what is that and I mean they literally don't know it's it's really remarkable young young kids don't know what that is what is that I said that the tape machine now the level of musicianship that it used to take in the old days I'm not saying this like an old person but to make records only the best players or typically the best players would make records because they'd make the least mistakes or could play the most creatively and actually get parts down without having to fix them nowadays people can play anything and it can be repaired and made the sound passable but when you're making records in those days and making I'm on tape it's a completely different was a completely different mindset don't you agree totally different mindset because we didn't have it in the back of our minds in those days that we could have the luxury of messing up and and having the time to do it I mean there were certainly this you know you you know in the two-inch tape you slice them and you planned you pasted up things and often they'll punch me in and then hit the out button yeah what they were fixed and I try to minimize those as much as possible reading well was a help for me because I don't think I've almost ever well I did once it's a funny story actually I to begin I barely ever made a mistake in a reading gig but the reading wasn't all that challenging anyways but there was this one gig in New York where it was a pantyhose...
commercial ending and this lady was being Bing Bing being walking and I had to play something like CG CG CG or maybe higher up you know because you can't be that low as the ladies walking so and I don't know why can't figure it out and Steve dad was in the drum booth and the breakers were in the horn section and it took me about six times to get it for some reason and it can't figure it out I couldn't sink my fingers at that precise moment of professional needs to do so and I couldn't go bum bum bum bum bum I would loved love and I was like this and these guys having known me because we play in this together in New York were just laughing at me out of my just sheer inability to play like one five one five and finally did it and it's a peculiar weird moment but it happened on two-inch so then I guess I I had to start the whole little commercial I mean screwing up as a part of playing I guess and luckily for all of us who all of us 100% of us make a mistake now we don't have to worry about it quite as much because it's far far easier to fix errors I personally never really had a big problem with let's say digital versus analog I honestly can't say that I've been affected by the digital sound in a way that some people think prefer analogue sound and I guess that's just a preference I I'm perfectly okay with the digital I think it's a far more manipulative environment you can do away more things with one's playing in...
digital than you can in analog and I like that so where are these seen music go and and and we're why do you think that higher level music in our society and I include jazz classical fusion is not as appreciated as it was 25 years ago 30 years ago why oh I have a fairly strong thought about it which is that each generation bagasse its own style or styles of music that are popular for that generation and I mean I can start back in that sort of the hot five is it the days of Louie Armstrong yes and hopping over those groups you got into the into the into the clarinet swing music of Benny Goodman then you got into the big bands they waned and went then you got into the 50s and got into that sort of code room a Ginga Jinga janga rock-and-roll kind of blues R&B music then I mean fast time and I was gonna say Minnesota Fats they get rid of a domino and and we're elvis and all of that and the 60s got into you know the electrified playing 7ds got into disco AG's got into hair bands and that's where I start to lose perspective I'm not a hundred percent of her things like New Wave and and and punk and things go on so to answer your question is is each generation beget beget a style of music that seems to be popular and mostly with younger people love younger listeners and younger players so what happened is when fusion was popular it's something I once heard I can't recall who said it but oh I remember I think it was is it Lenny Lenny white I mean I...
don't recall that you know musicians owned the music industry in the 70s and we did just because if you could play just if you could play you're a star today that doesn't count really for the most part for the most part and so this generation doesn't have the same interest in the playing element of music that another generation head may come back yeah I though what's yours but why do you think I feel like correcting this but evolution you know it's hard to predict who could predict that hair bands would have been why not kneecap bands why not the elbow Bend I'm being a physician to see she's here but surely things evolve why my wife is an Argentinean and she says how come in America is it spelled you know kni-i-fe you fall out sure once in it and it isn't pronounced Kenny today and the best you know push it cuz in in in spanish-speaking countries they don't you know if it's if it's spelled that way it sounds that like sure I said it's an evolution of English it's not that anyone planned that language should end up as it is it simply was an evolution it became what it became and we learned it as it became it's established so music is the very very same thing it became what it became and evolved to what it evolved and today's industry barely it seems to me pays attention to the great players I mean I'm utterly and absolutely convinced that if Jimi Hendrix came along today no one would notice it no I agree you...
know so in the industry and the luck of the draw on the time that you come along I mean there's a lot of remarkable musicians that will never be heard today that might have been another era become a superstar and it's just simply due to the availability of those musicians and their thing in this year now there's a big thing that goes with this is that educators bass educators teach style sometimes they keep a style that they teach style the idea is is that they teach musicians how to be current in their train in today's music thing they'll teach them that you know not bass only but other things internet social social networks they're teaching a multitude of things to help bass players to be current which to me is a problem and the problem is is that in every single era of music any I'm speaking for me because I'm a bass player and a bass player that had success had success because they could play right quite simply that if teachers teach current style or teach students for a lot of money on my dad how to function in this era of modern music through networking and through use of electronics and things of this nature in that sense they're teaching at obsolescence because when this Europe passes which it must right the lessons that were paid for at that school or with those teachers or on the internet will no longer be applicable so people are paying money to be current till today until 2018 or 19 when they may not be usable at all that's...
an awful lot of money and time to invest in it in a time of music that that must pass because music styles and any or is always test so I had a better idea you can certainly learn about the modern elements in the ways to become current but if I were a basic feature of all the bass players no matter what style rock blues popular this that punk jazz blues you know what I'm saying till you submit every style of music has a G major in it per se and where I think the lacking element in bass education is that they're trying to keep current instead of keeping music and that is my biggest objection one Vegas I have a lot of them with bass education not to be spiteful or mean but humid men I mean it's hard to keep quiet when you see things happening and you know you could do better for people you know bass players you could they could do better if they were willing for the money they're paying to learn in a way that was going to help them and really really the only way I know people don't like that narrow thinking but there is no argument against this if you understand the results musicians that are trained in music under wouldn't second guess it at all the only reason to learn at a school with a teacher with a bass professor with a with a thing with the other thing is to learn music because everything else is obtainable in a self-taught paradigm so that's my thing when you say what happened to the music today I would hope that bass players would learn what...
G major a minor B minor because whatever style they're playing in those sounds exists somewhere so really they should could only be practicing music on the bass if they're attending to learn attempting to learn something you know so if you were to teach to tell a beginner where they should start if they're a bass player in their beginner wirdy where you start where does a beginner start where would you start with the beginning student I know you don't teach beginning students but where would you start now well I would start them on whole notes because they don't know what they are they understand them in principle but they don't know what they look like on a piece of paper you start at the beginning and the thing is is that you start at the beginning but you don't need 12 years to learn how to read for or how to excel on your instrument you do start at the beginning reading that there's an interesting philosophy that that has been popularized that music is a language and many people believe that you learn music by ear because and you do but music is a language is how we learned how to speak you know as children infants we learn mama dada we learn by ear a free ongoing event and we learned language by ear what ought to be added to that thought is that not only did we learn music excuse me in English let's say in our American society or any society or whatever language it is did we learn the language by ear but we learned it how to read it...
and write it and we did it academically yeah and did it academically which raised our ability to understand the literal function of English to where we can communicate emotionally and we can write our feelings I'm angry with this I'm happy with this I love you I don't ever want to see you then I love this candidate I don't like this guy I like this candidate and the emotional and artistic expression of English came directly from the academic learning of reading and writing there's no doubt and the other thing is we all learn the same way just about how to read and write we weren't taught individually well you're different than me so you should be taught differently except for let's say tutoring you don't I mean it sure that it needs a little excel or a certain little you know adjustment and guidance we're all taught the same it is a myth and I emphasize this word it is a myth of education anywhere where people have to be regarded as unique and different and be taught that way and the reason I emphasize the word is because that's the word that was use it a couple of articles I read regarding that therapists and psychologists and and educators couldn't find any link to the fact that we're different they couldn't locate it it's just that it's a belief so entrenched into the human musical and world psyche of Education music education that it's impossible to imagine that the whole concept that people are believing...
in actually is false but apparently it is so in that thing I would start going back now because I like I give these cycles I would start a beginner at the beginning if anybody wanted to learn how to play better they should read music end of story why because the base was not built to play a groove or play a bass note in a sense it was built to play a note the very first emphasis of a bass guitar if you can visually see it is that notes are laid out on it those frets represent notes and the ironic thing is that that is precisely with a lot of guys unfortunately don't seem to respond that reason a truth well it worked for me it won't work it worked for me it might not work for you as a popular tentative sort of communication in music education I've been to think it won't it could work for you it might not work for you and my philosophy is whatever I teach if it weren't for me I guarantee you it'll work for you because it worked for you Vicki Otto it works for us these things work this whatever works for me is going to work for anybody else because we all have the same needs what is this instrument and where are the notes I mean what else is there in bass in the ironic thing ok so so so the reading component then you have the ear component and marrying those two because obviously ear training was a big part of Charlie's teaching and where do you put ear training in with that or developing your ear in addition to reading music and then writing music...
it's paramount and ironically it's the self-taught area that takes care of this if one isn't learning let's say really your training methodologies in a school self-taught bass playing is contingent entirely upon your train here's an interesting thought there's only two ways to learn how to play the bass only one is by being trained in music and the others by being self-taught and self taught in encompasses every gig you play every jam session every amp every string even if you read and you've taught music you're also self teaching as well well you're right and in fact a hundred percent of all bass players electric bass players that ever lived or who never will live I'm sure are all self-taught every teacher bass teacher that a bass players study with are all self-taught all right and the addition is is I don't really recommend that anyone study with a self-taught bass player if the bass player isn't also told in academic music and as I say there's only two reasons two ways to play you learn musical content and the reason I say that is because history validates this you know this recommenders it's a it's a three 400 year old reality and then bass players did away with it trying to modernize the electric bass educational system and I never quite understood why but music only purely simply I could take any bass player or anyone like me and change their entire musical lives in three months to a year and a story and it is...
an I who work who is doing it it's the musical content if they had the patience to practice and do the things that are required one year and they're done in the sense of the understanding then they would self teach and use the skills I mean it's like I don't have to go back to you don't have to go back to English to scope to learn more English you know we could take care of that ourselves if you wish to even of our ability to you know improve our grammar let me ask you something along these lines so you have tremendous technical facility you always did you started on the violin you played for ten years do you think that certain people have natural technical facility or you think any level of proficiency can be developed or practice no I think that certain people have a propensity for it I think that certainly more people have you noticed today maybe you have that more bass players today have more technique than I ever had there are guys that are astonishing and not just like eyes like Hadrian for rod who I think is the top of the pack but there are so many bass players that have what may be on the facility I have so in a sense they were the beneficiaries of the guys that preceded them that might have been Jocko or Stanley or myself or you know the guys that had that type of thing and so I guess I'm going to kind of report myself being this is yes and no I think because I've never been asked this so I'm putting together close as I go some people...
are propensity for it other people are affected younger by listening to those CDs and have come to regardless as natural your son can hear any note on God's planet because you exposed them early adults are going to have a way harder time and adults means anyone over like 1718 I mean it's generally harder for guys that just start up on an instrument to develop that kind of technique but it isn't impossible right now I'm sort of a slower chef and I used to be I don't have that same sort of snap what does that synapse snap that I use do I have pretty good ability to play melodically but the music has sort of superseded the technical need if you follow but yeah I would say a lot of guys today they're way more technically able bass players than any of us ever were beyond any of us so but they don't have your experiences though that's the that's the other other side of it well I'll get your story I was in a band with Ray Barretto the Cuban I think he's actually Puerto Rican but he played salsa music and I was playing salsa he liked my playing but I was not legit in it and this was in the 70s and it was a guy named Fidel not the obvious Fidel there was a guy named development man and he hated me he hated what I did angel mother blogger you'll you'll do a white piece of bread new white boy in what they do what you and I would and even you know in those days people didn't hold back I mean they started a sort of tend to have a...
real fragile sense of self and can't take but man with you couldn't play the music which was sacred to these guys they will let you know it and it even could have gotten violent so I was really concerned I went home and I started to shed and listen to records and listen to South huevos and and I got deeply into it and about it and again it wasn't eighteen years of apprenticeship I visited in about a month because I was deeply into it not all right I have a natural sense of music I learned music more quickly than a lot of guys do so I went back to the rehearsal started to play and I was just doing this kind of wandering of Fidelis and all the guys are looking at me like this white so-and-so cuz you know and if you don't look at how many ones do some good brawl you're single you know and that was my endorsement that was my graduation and so the answer is as I did not have a lot of experience you have to go through the difficulties of learning and the difficulties of playing and I want to add something here learning is a not a clean pristine and beautiful experience and it would be great if people knew this it's a dirty greasy bumpy and very frustrating at times experience and it I feel it is precisely for this reason that most bass players gravitate towards the sweeter nicer everything works for you message of bass playing that I object to the musicians that practiced and played never die from it never a heart attack I never went insane they were simply...
into the element of learning to wear even the difficult elements were tolerable and necessary Dustin Hoffman said you don't learn from your successes you learn from your failures and I knew this early so when I was learning it was always a sort of a awful occasionally what's the awfulness not claimed what you want it's that dead simple bass players just go like this right away it's an instant reaction when I do clinics and I have a guy up and I'll say play the C scale the guys are go bomb another hook and it's a performance mentality so I'll say we'll do it on the string only and that slows them down and now they have to think learning is not an always a pleasant experience but the rewards are almost always great and if I can get guys to know this they would abandon I think the more pretty positive sort of you know kissy fluffy kind of thing I'm not saying you have to be evil to a student or evil and learning I'm saying that it's already built in that learning how to play and improving is a difficult endeavor and why not anything worth having isn't easy so and we all know these things I'm just not sure why bass players don't accept it and I had a thought that the bass or anybody would accept a guy coming to fix their sink you know a plumber but that plumber better know exactly what they're doing because I thank you money but at the same time a bass player fields that are pathetic that a metronome in a hand grip and a...
slap exercise is going to get them a career and and it just amazes me how off to the reality of what they need from us if one has a professional goal in mind and it's so that's why I'm sort of I do the things I do I want people to be enlightened by the utter hurt anybody's feelings I haven't made a dime in 40 years of 35 40 years from saying the things I do rather the opposite people are some people are very angry with me that being said are you glad that you grew up in the time period that you did and had the experiences that you did yes and I think anybody that grew up in that period would agree that was the period where music for its own sake was the focus we're learning it well was the focus where the time that took and the struggles that ensued from time were were allowable and permissible where performance was not the focus but achieving a high musical ability was which ironically has made us better performers sure I was in an era where everybody was of the same mindset and because we were all of that mindset we would all strive for higher things and we would all expect it out of each other Fidel expected it out of me and other guys too they wanted certain thing they want to Aruba I had to learn that to play a bass like bass player you know and I had to go through that but fortunately I was in an era where high goals of playing and high goals of learning were the norm you see today guys will say how do you walk with a drummer or talk about that...
oh I should practice with a quick tracker I should speed up my metronome I mean these are three silly points of learning because anybody who can play can lock with a drummer in my time I would say when I say my time in the day I'm coming up yeah nobody really ever thought of locking with a drummer it was it was you know whatever talked about it bingo it was never discussed it was never an issue and today a cameraman issue and bass players again are misled by well intended but really flawed bass instructors in a bass educational society which I call out because students are not getting what they need anybody can play with a drummer anybody can play with AK electric anybody can play a groove anybody and the reason is is because everybody in the past already did all those things there's nothing that I'm saying that can be done it's not like a line was drawn in this generation suddenly didn't have this you're just not being taught correctly that's really all that it is I'll go so far as to say the whole of visual and conceptual element of learning based today I can't say it's a lie because a live denotes fooling someone on purpose it's false it's just a false principal base requires a redo educationally you ever go back and listen to your old records I have and I hated how come because I'm no longer anywhere close to the to the bass player that I was it's I don't particularly like the idea of going down what are the...
memory lane or some resent would say yeah memory lane sure right and the memory lane there is a fireman with an algorithm so I can you and I know you I know and no I don't like to review them I don't I sometimes I hear things where I said oh my god I made those mistakes oh no I didn't I end the solo earlier there's a really good base level of me on online playing grooving hi but I went to courses too long and that's the own and I lament that that so I always find something wrong it makes me lift higher because I I'm shy it without my bass playing I really am in one problem many things I'm proud of that I'm shy about it I feel confident in it I feel unconfident in it just the stoop from the from the players that you've played with the Bill Bruford those great musicians were there any musicians that you came across in your playing that played things that would surprise you or you thought were just completely out of the ordinary like really special players oh my goodness I think everyone almost everyone I played with was special Allan Holdsworth was special heavy knife you know I let me go through the list I'm indicate gets a little little weird Denis chambers unreal I mean you know Scottie Henderson Scott Henderson unbelievable I played in a base band with Stu Hammond and Billy Sheehan and and these guys were constantly doing you know different things I can stew I played with incredible pianists I played with incredible drummers that I...
mean the list is so long that it's hard for me to pull this guy out you know her me yeah yeah I mean I play with Bernard Purdie and the feel was right there and I wasn't about especially people who doesn't do boom you know that thing which I love and when I played in different situations I was required to provide a different thing I'm lucky I'm fairly proficient in four or five styles because I played with the greatest musicians and four or five styles oh I got very good at that but whenever I did it I made sure I could play at my best or learn how to so I got extremely good at four or five things and I've developed my own thing on the side so it's but you see I'm not alone anybody is that's focused in the love of music does the same things you know I'm not unique but I am rare and we that little clique of guys worldwide on whatever instruments are rare let me tell you sometimes I'll hear guys playing my minder as long as a guy named mariano Augusto me okay Gatos in Argentina that blows my mind when I hear him and play with him in his harmonic thing blows my mind he does I said these are the same 12 15 18 notes whatever I know these notes but he's doing and you want to know something he's mostly self-taught he's just unbelievable I want to record with him and his partner his name is Contino sonali an incredible drummer I played with Ethan it's kibbutz one of the greatest swing drummers an Israeli guy you know...
there's so many great guys I played with a guy recently John Hammond who's a Nashville studio guy yeah and as that way I just fit a clinic here I said look for the clinic let's not talk about what we're going to play let's not talk about temple here's what I want to do let's go up on the stage without having played a note and let's play and what this was going to demonstrate is that any let's say experienced musician because I think you mentioned experience later I had a lot of experience and a lot of things and you can't pay for that and we started to play and we want vy1 like but I've done stuff and he like on beat two or three went I don't do jack you know what I make sure and like we want to shook and why because it's expected it said I have to use this phrase I'm not being condescending but Calaca the drummer is a duh go that's a lot for the quake dragons of Baal you know I can't get over how many people make it so hard in such a mystery you know what I proved it my clinics I do this with proofs I'll get guys up who practice it quakes I'm pregnant I said you don't have to yeah I do it for them all I say come up I plug in and I have a machine or something and I'll slow down and speed up and these guys shadow it perfectly I had a young lady who came on that check this out she never played an instrument in her life you got to hear this it's on I have a video they may release it and she was...
playing dumb don't don't don't you wouldn't make quarter notes like this this low because she didn't know how to play the bass and and John started to do this don't don't don't don't and I kind of did this to John's so he went don't don't don't don't and she followed right along with them it is an intrinsic thing about time and that's why I'm so anti metronome inant you know don't get me started you didn't get me started I got my poster I knew if I would just bring one thing up and that you would go on one of your rants which is excellent I loved it I was like oh

Jeff

this will be easy he'll just I'll just ask him one question he'll go off and to be perfect there was a what was it it was the George Burns said he made he made a career we could he'd go on stage with Gracie you know George Burns yeah nice so how's your brother and he never said another word great we just go Hawk was exactly just think about bass education lock the doors and give me five hours I'll give you my book it says yeah it's an important thing for me because I want people to at least have a thing to go like this if people have this right then decide I mean and keep this end I mean I'm not saying it's my way the highway I'm saying is is that my way is the only way that works and that alone infuriates people but you know I don't deny the truth just because it doesn't cheer me up...
there's a lot of points about that you bet the Christopher Hitchens quote by the way I often either for Hitchens I miss missus voice very much now oh yes oh yes oh yes a clear thinker and you know he had his views but you know I don't in either to just because it doesn't cook cheer me up you know what he says that even if one was it done you said even if only one person speaks the truth the truth is still a truth and and I'm not shy about what I say I don't say what I say to gather any love because that's rarely the case I don't say what I say to anger people I don't wish to cause harm I wish to call this change and the truth will set you free but first it will piss you off do you think that there are institutions that don't like what you have to say and you know if you are going to talk at a college about this and essentially what you're saying is exactly the opposite of what they're teaching how do people feel about that you think it keeps you from from doing that or when you do that how do people react well I'm not welcome at these schools Berkeley won't have me and I won't have me a lot of schools won't have me they just won't let me near the door and rightfully so I might add you know I don't say what I say I never said what I said in order to cause harm I mean my manner of speaking I'll use this opportunity here to share something there's a before therapy and I thought it another of

interview

s I...
probably will do it in another few this would be for therapy and an after therapy

Jeff

and the before therapy basically up to about the time I was 16 I was an angry combative mean-spirited guy and anything that crossed my way that was of a conflict to my belief or anything else IRA tend to respond in kind and then some and I could and I tried to fix this attitude but never really could I tried on my own terms and I went through many years of working it out and then in sixty I met somebody special a therapist / spiritual spiritually motivated person and in a nutshell in three years I went through I would call it the most horrific horrific and galvanizing changes in me as a human being where I considered not staying in the world it was so painful that I said now I understand why people commit suicide I understand it because if you feel you can never extract yourself from this great unending and diabolical emotional pain unending unceasing for months that there's only one way out but I would never entertain that I just said one more day one more day like like an alcoholic anonymous and then I began to recover from this and what happened is is that two things actually have and I'll nutshell them - I'm not the man I used to be as Scrooge said on you know one of the minister another men I will send not the men I was and and I'm not and but at the same time I'm also a man of principle experience intellect historical understanding and in this to book this kind of...
menage of things I haven't changed my views about learning but certainly will remind people that if I say them today I must be the same guy that I used to be and there's a thing that when you do something in life you earned the results of it so I won't deny it I won't protect myself and I won't you know say they're wrong I'll say quite honestly whatever people think or reacting towards the things that I think regards to the things I say I earned it so it's up to me in this sort of new paradigm this new manner of communication perhaps I can I'm not the same guy but I still believe the same things that I believe but of course people have to decide and see what it is I'm not trying to cause harm to anybody but change hurts that's all there is to it and a voice coming along in the group where the voices contrary to that group are never going to be appreciated yeah I mean and so and I am that voice I'm not Jesus and I'm not Martin Luther King but I understand their experiences I'm just space guy but I you know stand there and say what I say and people as they said to Martin Luther as they said that any figure going against the grain and the popular consensus is crucified you know P so to speak for me it's feed me something that culture that's famous that's what I think of there's no metronomes you know I have a bigger mouth than you and I do it in order to do to verbally help I I mean I don't care what...
what is thrown at me sure I honestly go because I know I consider the source the failures always outweigh the successes I think I mean by far no comparison that successes are few the failures are many but it's what you do with the failures that define who you are very well said and using that analogy in your comment in music education failure is a guarantee when you're reading and learning new music you know there's another thing anything you don't know but for people that are listening learning is fraught with failure which gives us reason to practice anew and to grow from there I mean the failure isn't a bad thing it gives us anything specific and exact thing to fix to become better it's actually a positive thing well I appreciate you being with me here

Jeff

and I know that we'll we'll do it again as soon next time we'd love to do it in person I think that'd be fantastic because I want to get you playing here maybe you can record a clip for me and send it to me I can do that easily I really appreciate it

Jeff

it's always a pleasure speaking with you I agree it is always a pleasure during smart guy here great musician obviously a fabulous person and knowing you was really a pleasure for me a boom because again I notice that as time goes on I meet better and kinder and forthright people like yourself I learned a lot from you you know you've taught me a lot in the short time we hung I still want to play bass where you'd be...
hired as a bass player here in Nashville and phone-in a bass part awesome excellent all right

Jeff

all right so much I'll talk to it okay hey

Rick

its

Jeff

and hi everybody thanks for tuning into my chat with

Rick

he was kind enough to invite me so we could chat about music and he asked me if I would play something on the bass when we had done the

interview

but my computer camera is a little bit flawed I it's not working so well so I couldn't play something there when I did the

interview

so I thought I would record something afterward and in a moment I will be playing something for you all and I'm here at John McCracken's house he's the Nashville music producer who will be recording me playing a little melody out of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony I'm a huge fan of basil and it came out of the cert 3rd movement it is a violin melody and what you'll be hearing is entirely improvised so I don't know where I'm going with it and I'm trying to create something on the fly so I hope you enjoy it I'm a huge fan of Beethoven and I find his music is passionate you wrote once in a work of English for the missus ulemas from the heart dedicated it to people from the heart to the heart in that beautiful so this little rendition I hope it's from my heart and hopefully we'll be touching your heart Oh that was great I'd like to thank

Jeff

for being my guest today and remind you to subscribe here to my everything music YouTube...
channel and hit the notification button to let you know when new videos are coming out thanks again for watching