Cosmologist Bernard Carr Explores the Mysteries of the Universe with Sadhguru

time is a fundamental firmament space is happening above it time can be escaped the way I am made is no different from the way the

universe

is made we don't know what dark energy is it must be some kind of cosmological constant but it makes the

universe

accelerate generally in science you call it theory yes I call it my experience. If I give you a simple line, can you build math for it? Call joh m yog and Kal because I said something in a language you don't know. I don't understand I think I should explain a little Thank you thank you I'll keep it simple It's a song that talks about how the cycles of time can crush us or trap us or if we ride them it can free us only one who has risen. top The duality of the existence of only one who is in yoga, which means he who has known the union of his existence with everything else, only he will rise in the moment and only he who rises in time will dominate his life .

I think that the topic that has been given tonight is the discussion about how to make space and time for Consciousness, so one of the questions is how you can escape time and refers to cycles of time that relate to the question of whether time is linear or linear. cyclical, which is a topic of great philosophical interest and, in fact, it is something that I would like to talk to you about and it is a question that arises both in the context of cosmology, which is my professional discipline, when we look at the universe as a whole . of cyclic processes and even the universe itself could be a cyclic process at this time most

cosmologist

s would say that we do not live in a cyclic universe because the universe is accelerating due to what is called dark energy, we do not know what the Dark energy is meant to be a kind of cosmological constant, but it causes the universe to accelerate instead of collapsing again, so if you ask most

cosmologist

s, they say the future of the universe is that it will expand to always and will disperse more and more. eventually we won't even be able to see the other galaxies, they will be very far away, but that's interesting because if you read most of the Rel religious texts, especially I think from the Eastern tradition, the Hindu and Buddhist text, the indication is that the universe is going to collapse again and that in reality you will have cycles of the universe and I have to personally confess that I have always favored a cyclical Universe because everything in the world that we know has cycles.

It turns out that the time of the cycle is something like 20 billion years and that's remarkably close. I mean, if the universe is going to collapse again, it's probably going to collapse again on that kind of time scale and modern cosmologists have only discovered this in the last 50 years using their telescopes, so it's notable. that Buddha and perhaps other mystics were able to obtain this information, whatever it was, 500 BC. C. or many many years ago, so it's like you have this Inner Space Station, so we are spending through science, we are spending billions of dollars to get this information while you get it from these mystical ideas for free, of course, it's not free, it's not free, it costs a life, it costs a life, oh, it's not, it's a note, it costs a life, it's not free.

I see, okay, yes, the dollars come from Otherwise, life is wasted looking at these things, but to me this is an important point about the link between science and spirituality. You think they are opposites from my perspective. They are both studying the physical universe and technology. Both can do it. It can be applied to study the physical Universe from an external perspective and from an internal perspective and I think that, ultimately, there is agreement, well, if it is the same truth, if it is the same universe that you are looking at, there has to be agreement, there has to be concordance and And I think it's notable that, so, I know there has been a tradition of internal science in Indian philosophy for thousands of years, but in Western philosophy the focus is entirely on external science and I think part of this union between science and spirituality will be the understanding that inner science and outer science must merge and of course having this conversation with you so that you are on top, this is so, oh yeah, and by the way, who prepared this fabric B it's beautiful, I mean, I.

I don't know if it was made especially for this conversation, but it's all these equations that make me feel at home and and yes, but um, but the only thing I would like to say is that we are talking about the physical Universe because I am a profession. cosmologist, so I can talk about cosmology without getting into trouble, and when we talk about cycles and the time scale of cycles, that's conventional cosmology, so if there are physicists in the room they should be happy with that, however, I know this conversation. I hope this conversation turns to other domains where one goes beyond the physical Universe because I think one of the lessons one learns from mystical ideas is that there are other levels of reality beyond the material.

I think I refer to this as In the domain of post-materialist science, originally the Guru was talking about time cycles and so far I am talking about time cycles within physical cosmology, but there are also time cycles that go beyond the physics and I know we will talk about that later. but maybe I should ask them to react because today in modern science the methodology is to come up with a concept, make a theory, build a mathematical backbone and then look for pieces of evidence that can confirm those things. I think it's a methodology, the methodology. of uh mysticism or mysticism or yogic way of looking at things is to turn to words and look at what we are made of this comes from the fundamentals uh in science, you would say an assumption in my experience, I say from the fundamentals knowing the way I'm made is not different from the way the universe is made, just a little bit, but you can still sit here with these little eyes, you can look up and look at the galaxy, this is because it is made the same way and we are capable.

To reflect that there are some studies, people say that they have observed the vision and mental landscapes of some insects or something like that. There have been some experiments done where they say that your vision and yours don't go beyond your survival requirements, so this ability. We have because we are able to reflect the entire universe within us if you wish, in fact everything we are seeing is just a reflection right now, these people seem to be here, but we are only seeing them the way they are reflected in the firmament of our minds there is simply no other way to see it, so having said that the fundamental instruments of perception is how we maintain them, different people can see different things depending on how sharp they stay when I say see, I'm not just speaking of the visual apparatus we see through the five senses and more in this context the way we see this is because your cosmology inevitably your uh the other day uh the boss didn't allow you to talk about time because he said no, it's time but you had I talked about space, which I personally see as a consequence of time.

Let me articulate in simple words what the way we see the universe is and see if there are a lot of overlaps and if there are things that don't overlap, we can examine why. they do not overlap this is how in the yogic principle the universe was like this this is usually represented as a howitzer a snake a cobra running with each other with the mouth and the tail included and a hood Rising here so this is not the European oras an know what they make a circle but that's how it was so we call it anant that means it's infinite it's infinite infinite yes infinite sorry we Indians you invented the concept no I want to tell you it's not such a concept of infinity or Infinity was like that the nature of infinity I don't have to tell you but for everyone uh if you do infinity + 10 it's still infinity infinity minus million it's still infinity so your math doesn't work you do it plus minus multiply divide nothing so it was like that you couldn't do anything with it later it developed and became like this so we call the sh shun means empty it became empty what was infinite it became empty this is very important to understand this what was infinite if it was not empty we could not even call it empty or full in that moment because it is infinite, it has no more minus, it has no multiplication or division, that is how it unrolled to become nothing, nothing means that we must put a hyphen between nothing, nothing, it is nothing, but it has a presence.

Now this presence. I guess maybe this presence is what modern scientists call dark energy or dark force or whatever, but it's very appropriate because we call this sh or kala, the word kala means emptiness, the word kala means darkness, the word color means time, the word color means space, yes, all these four things became somewhat manifest because they became one color, so this is here as void, but we call it Infinite Space. I must mark my words. It is infinite infinite space, not time because there is no distinction, it is time that is developing to become space, so once it becomes color like this, you can see it as emptiness, you can see it as time, you can see it as space, you can See it as the first manifest manifestation of that which has no form, everything that has no form is also called color, so what was Infinite Space became zero now + one is plus one minus one is minus one suddenly no there is physicality however, there is a mathematical basis for its physicality now, once it was left empty like this, the word shuna is in terms of written word for the first time, seen around 400 BC.

C., there are documents where clearly the word sha and the zero mark is there, he traveled to Arabia in early uh, you know, the next part of how we count time today because those divisions are not in our minds because we have to communicate with the English-speaking world, we have also reached that cut. the date is 2000 years ago otherwise we don't have those cuts in our minds so I'm just saying what do you call it now uh ad ad it's not ad anymore what do they call it c c it's called C now Common Era or something like that oh c yeah then uh in the Common Era in the first 2nd century or maybe in the 3rd 4th century he traveled to Arabia because Indian traders maintained trade routes from India from the bottom of India which is the southernmost parts of India to Damascus Jerusalem Aleo, even today the city of Aleo is supposed to be 8,500 years old and that city was built by collecting taxes from Indian traders, so live transaction was a daily business.

People traveled quite a bit, so they traveled to Arabia, where they called. it Cipher the word Cipher again meant void this Cipher came to Europe in Latin they called it zarum which went to Venice Venice where it was the center of many things happening in Europe and there they called it zero and the English called it Cipher these days no one Using that word Cipher when we were little, it was common to use the word Cipher in the English language, but I don't know it as a code, like a secret code, oh well, the word Cipher in English is related to coding. but this is a different context, yes we used to use the word Cipher as a zero when we said it was used in a derogatory way oh he is a cipher he is nothing so this aspect once became nothing but it was a firmament of tremendous existence. but without physical form then we go into a rather dialectical way of expressing this where we say we call this kala as a large formless being, not large, infinite, formless, the infinite being cannot have a form, of course, so It is a being and he. breathe, he was inhaling, inhaling is a long process, maybe millions or billions of years, there are calculations for that, I'm not the mathematician for that and when he exhaled, when he exhaled, it's not that he has nostrils, he exhaled through all parts, if we had them.

Actually, not even our skin is, you know, it's not just perspiring, it's also breathing, you know, so we breathe through every pour on the skin, so when it breathed, that created a certain amount of energy which is called shi shi . from it, when the energy came out of it, then this firmament of nothingness, which is a powerful force, began to reverberate initially and then caused waves, those waves led to cyclical movements, so with these cyclical movements the first physical forms emerged. and everything exploded as These cycles became more and more complicated from what we call electrons, protons, atoms, planetary systems, universes, all of these evolved because cyclical movements fundamentally we see physicality as a consequence of cyclical movement, our very birth.

It is due to the cyclic movements in our mother's bodies, otherwise we would not be born, there is a yogic doomsday that you would like to know, so by studying the Cycles, feeling the Cycles in our own bodies and studying these Cycles , things were discovered because we were more interested in how to transform life here and how to make a Human being goes beyond cycles, as I said before, the cycles of time are such that they can crush you. Bythat in their childhood CH were like this and now they become like this? Time has crushed many people.

People think they are their life experiences. this and not that, that's just an excuse. In reality it is time that has crushed them or at the same time could trap people. They are fine but they are bored and don't know what to do with themselves. Do you mean crushing them in time? They feel like they die, that will happen anyway, but when they are alive they feel crushed by time. The cycles of time simply crush them day after day. Many people wish that the sun would not rise tomorrow.tomorrow but it does arise and they have to go to work CR crushes them you know in the United States they have thank God it's Friday yes yes it means they don't have to wake up tomorrow morning yes yes TG that we use at Caltech We used to have the TGIF celebration every Friday, so we want to break the cycles so that any cycle naturally has a centripetal force and a centrifugal force.

If you get caught in the centripetal, you will be crushed. liberated a tangent is formed, so reaching this tangent is the goal of life in the East, we call it MTI nirwana Moka, whatever we essentially want to ride in the physical Cycles in such a way that we are liberated from the physical Cycles, How did people see these? things how people came up with these things this is always a question well, how did modern scientists see something that everyone talks about today? hble and whatever the other John what John space James web telesc James web space whatever these instruments are these instruments are just extensions of our own senses just because we have ice just because we have eyes the telescope means something otherwise it's a telescope to a man who has no eyes just nothing is right it's just a pipe with some mirrors and maybe spears or whatever it's just a pipe it's a metal pipe we can use it for something but you can't use it because inside they've blocked it with so many pretty expensive stuff pretty expensive pipe I agree with that, so I say Just because we have ice we are making instruments that will extend our eyes, so this extension was done in many different ways.

One of the things we did was create energetic forms that would make us look very, very far away today, unfortunately, that's all. being misunderstood and misrepresented, but there were instruments with which we could look very far, we could open windows to the CMOS, these we call our deities, these are not gods, there is no concept of God in the East, are you talking about telescopes modern or ancient? both metaphors there was no no, there were no ancient telescopes, I meant metaphorical, yes, they saw things creating energetic forms that you have definitely heard of, uh, because he was in your neighborhood, ramanam, yes, of course, so when the people asked him some uh, 3900 mathematical formulations, he came out with which is still being debated and argued and people are trying to understand what he wrote when people asked him that he was dying of tuberculosis he sat on his deathbed and just spilled math when people asked him how does this come he said my Davi which means my goddess bleeds math ramanujan was in my College Trinity yes before my time so I never met him and for me that is an example Fascinating how you can get information about the universe not only through intellect but through inspiration as one says you thought, if I want, I should correct that, sir, I'm sorry, I'm wondering, you never get information. through your intellect, you get information through your senses and there, in the intellect, you screw it up, well, I mean, you.

Compare it with previous information and try to make sense of it. No, I wouldn't like to admit that we always screw it up, but I guess no, no, I'm saying we're trying to make sense of it. but usually what we think is sensible right now is actually blocking us because what we think is smart we can't leave what we think is stupid we can easily leave it so you have made so many interesting points said Guru well I'm not. I'm sure I can remember them all, but can I react to some? I will remind you yes, first of all, I'm glad you mentioned Ramanujan and Mathematics because one of the fascinating things about physics is that it is ultimately the language of physics. it's mathematics, you can see some equations behind it and that shows that our understanding because mathematics is a creation of the mind and there is a curious circularity because mathematics underlies physics physics underlies our understanding of the universe the universe produces life and brains and then the brains produce the minds that produce mathematics, so you have this curious cycle: the fact that the universe is understandable.

I mean, in a sense you were belittling intellect, but intellect is part of the process involved in mathematics. incomplete process, but it's because it's just the left side of the brain trying to understand things and to me that's always fascinating why mathematics is actually able to describe the universe. It is a miracle. We talk a lot about miracles, but it seems like one. It is a miracle that human beings, with their limited brains, are able to understand much of the Universe. I mean, we've only been around for 10,000 years or whatever, and yet we already claim that we can almost understand the universe, physicists claim. now they can almost understand the universe completely.

I suspect that statement will turn out to be incorrect, but at least it's a miracle that we can understand so much, which is why I reacted to the argument that intellect ruins things. I agree that they are often wrong, and in fact I suspect that most things turn out to be wrong in physics in the end, but one should not worry too much about what is right and what is wrong. I think what's interesting is the path that I think most theories in physics end up following. incorrect, but that does not mean that it is not useful because it is the path that is important rather than the final paradigm that will always change, but I always remember that there is a statement that mathematics is the language of God.

I don't know if this is a statement from Indian philosophy, but mathematics is the language of God, sometimes it is said the other way around and I know that roommate said that the language of God is silence and that may be more consistent with what you're saying, but that's the first point I wanted to make about the importance of mathematics, even though it ultimately can't reveal everything. I still think it's important and that's why I loved your reference to Ramanujan, who was a spokesperson. for the mathematics that came I think from his Davis from his angels instead of just through his intellect now you you I was I love the moment when you took your infinity and it became zero because as people will know I talked about the Eurobus cosmic in in my talk on Thursday and I love the cosmic eurobus because it sums up the whole triumph of physics and understanding the physical universe, but of course the most interesting aspect of the eurobus is where the head meets the tail and I said well the head corresponds to this the universe and we know how big the universe is 10^ the 27 cm and the tail corresponds to the scale of the table 10 Theus 33 cm well those are just the T the largest and smallest scales just like We understand it.

Really what those scales represent is infinity and zero. Well, the largest scale is infinity and the smallest scale is zero and of course we reduce them to a finite amount so that we can understand them, but for me, the really interesting point about the Eurobus. The top of the Eurobus is where infinity meets zero. Now the eurobus symbol is like a zero, remember, but the symbol that the guru used is of course the infinity symbol and I came across your representation of that on some website, it's a beautiful image, in fact, I think I even showed it briefly at the beginning of my talk, but I'm not sure if that was intentional, but to me it was a fascinating thought because it shows that, in a sense, Infinity is zero and that's how the universe began. because from a physical point of view the universe began in a vacuum.

We don't know exactly what happened at the beginning of the universe, but in a sense there was only pure energy and no matter, no form, no structure. so it just started from the vacuum and the vacuum, I guess, corresponds to zero, but it also corresponds to Infinity because from my perspective, at least at the top of the eurobus, it may be the end of physics as we understand it, but in reality from my point of view. perspective that is where Mind and Spirit come in and, from my perspective, if we want to have an extension of physics, it is there, at the top of the uroborus, where we are somehow going to find Mind and Spirit and maybe from a cosmological perspective.

That's where the universe comes from because if you believe that mind in some sense was prior to matter, you must find it there, at the top of your Robus, precisely where your zero and your Infinity meet from time to time you mean to all the different cycles. of time, the other thing about the oroborus is that there are all these different levels of structure, remember, I talked about them, biological time with human beings, planetary time, stellar time, galactic time, so the world The physical world is full of all these cycles and so when the material world was created in the Big Bang and it led through a process of evolution to all these different levels of structure that had all the different cycles, all the different time abilities that, Of course, they cover an enormous range.

I mean the cosmic uroborus was expressed in terms of space in terms of time spaces the scales of things could also have been expressed in terms of the time scales of things because every length scale goes with a time scale, you mentioned that space and time are intimately connected, so you could also put time scales around that diagram, each level of structure has a time scale associated with it and that is a manifestation of the physical world that there are all these cycles and we , as human beings, of course, we experience a limited range of these cycles and I was shocked, almost depressed when you said that it is the Cycles that can overwhelm us.

The experience of these Cycles can be almost depressing because you feel like they are constantly in your everyday life. I always hate shopping and I have to go. shopping every day, especially when my wife is away and having to shop every day and then cook every day and then wash every day, it's a little overwhelming, so I think I understand what you mean by that and, um, but that's part, that's part. of cycles and uh and I what but everything I want one thing I must I must tell you in yoga these cycles refer to a samsara yes, yes, but in common society in the language the word samsara means family oh of course oh I didn't realize that's okay, actually I can, I don't have kids, but I can imagine that's samsara, yeah, suppose you went to a lab and found a new universe, it doesn't matter, you still have to go home, yeah.

Yes, yes, and yet, of course, of course, from Buddhism I understand the concept of samsara and the constant cycle of birth and rebirth and how one needs to escape from that, so I understand that although there are all these cycles in the physical world. that there is an escape from all those cycles that I understand although I do not experience them, is in a certain sense the objective of I suppose it is the mystical path to escape the cycle. I must say personally that I have never had a I'm not. a very spiritually evolved person and I know that I am not going to enlighten myself on this, why do you say that?

Well, I, I, because I, more, you're trying to destroy my job, no, no, because my job is to make sure that everyone does it. No matter who you are, what you are, the possibility is always there, will you invest in the possibility or not? That's left to individuals, but if you say it's not possible, then you're trying to destroy my work, don't do it so well. If by enlightening myself I can justify your work, I will endeavor to enlighten myself, but all I want to say is that I personally don't feel I have been very successful.

I mean, I meditate and think things like that, but but and. I know, but I have many spiritual friends, many and yes, and I like to think that their spirituality rubs off on me. No sir, this is a wrong sense of the term spirituality that is spreading throughout the world. Okay, being spiritual, it's not necessary. To go to a temple or mosque, you don't need to pray, you don't need to meditate, nothing, it's just that if you're sincere enough, I'm using the word sincere because if you're sincere enough, you know that you don't know. A damn thing M, that means you're always, your intelligence is always searching, if you keep at it, you're spiritual, okay, so I'm not abandoning you, oh, thank you, well, I feel like I'll be more spiritual after this conversation, yeah, um.

And one thing I would like to talk about because I would actually like to get some information from you if I can because although I am a theorist and I am speculating about the nature of time andConsciousness I have this feeling that I probably know all the answers or at least some of the answers, so I would like to ask how some of my ideas relate to your ideas and does it have to do with the nature of time and, indeed, the nature of space in my talk on Thursday. I was trying to explain that if you want to expand physics to accommodate Consciousness, I mean Mind and Spirit, because Consciousness is everywhere, in matter, Mind and Spirit, but you have to expand your concept of space and your concept of time now.

I talked already. on Thursday about how I felt like you had to expand your concept of space, but just to summarize, in case there were some people who weren't there, my argument was that most mental and spiritual experiences require space and I It referred to the space of dreams. outside of bodily space the space of a near-death experience the space of ghosts uh the space of even some mystical experiences not all mystical experiences because some go beyond space and time but and what I argued was that it takes a higher dimensional space because it's not just physical space, it goes beyond physical space and then what I said was this high dimensional space.

It corresponds to a kind of high dimensional reality that reconciles all of our experiences of the world, not just the physical world but of all worlds, and that was my statement and then the point I made was that even physics itself claims that there are higher levels. Dimensions because Newton had a three-dimensional space Einstein said it was a fourth-dimensional space, space and time merged, which of course agrees with what you said before that space and time are basically the same and then I explained how they introduced the Fifth Dimension. to explain electromagnetism and then how they introduced six more dimensions to be able to describe all the physical interactions in super string theory, so we had a 10-dimensional world and finally I said that with M theory we had the idea that there was another dimension. so we have an 11 dimensional space and the sad Guru made the fascinating comment, which was new to me, that actually 11 Dimensions is precisely what arises in some of the Traditions, perhaps we can return to that, but the real The key point I wanted to make was that in a particular version of M-Theory the physical world is a slice in a high-dimensional space, the slice is called the dark brain and the hard dimensional space is a five-dimensional space, it is called mass and that is why the physical gives you a hard dimension space of which the material world is a portion your experience your mental and spiritual experience gives you a hard dimensional space so the main point I raised on Thursday is why we can't identify these two spaces.

This is not a view that many of my fellow physicists will share because they don't want to be associated with mysticism, uh, but that's my personal view. I don't want to give the impression that I am taking the conventional physics view because I will get in trouble with my fellow physicists. If you have that impression, but it's my point of view anyway, but that was talking about space, but what I didn't talk about, um, because our kind president noticed that I didn't talk about time, so, what? Can I talk for about five? minutes over time and then I will ask S Guru if that is a long time, sir.

The fascinating thing about Consciousness is that it involves the passage of time. When you say I am conscious, one can argue about what you mean by conscious there is a distinction between the contents of Consciousness, which is what I normally refer to when I talk about a spatial Consciousness, but the experience of Consciousness Excel this must change, you shouldn't say space like this, ah, I'll go like this, thank you. Yeah, okay, a conscious space like that, yeah, and hopefully a time like this, which means the president can't stop me if this is the point anyway. You have to realize that Einstein, with his serious special relativity, brought space and time together.

I realized that the world is four-dimensional and the fourth dimension is time, so you as a human being, your body is like a world line. In this you imagine space and time in two dimensions. I hope I can use my hands, but imagine the space. and time in two dimensions, to make it simpler, you are like a line, the line of your world in this four-dimensional space, but it is represented as a two-dimensional space, but in Einstein's image it is called The universe of blocks. Past, present and future coexist, it does not exist. time, but in your conscious experience you think that you are moving through time, so if you imagine that your world line is a brain, you think of your Consciousness as a little bead that travels along that wire, that is your experience, so right now it is 10 minus 5 but it will be 5:00 in 10 minutes and it was a quarter to 5 5 minutes ago but the point is that that does not happen in the theory of relativity in the theory of relativity there is no passage of time and this is well understood and That is why many physicists and philosophers say that it is an illusion.

The passage of time is an illusion and yet we all experience it now. What I am saying is that the mind, the experience of Consciousness, is not actually part of our current picture of physics. part of Relativity and the passage is not and is not the passage of time really in quantum theory time has a different state in quantum theory so how is this explained well the way it has been explained by several physicists and philosophers , including me? an extra Dimension that is an extra dimension of time that corresponds if you like mental time instead of physical time and that is why I say current physics, that is, the Theory of Relativity and quantum theory cannot explain the experience of Consciousness , but the final Theory of physics. that is going to reconcile relativity and quantum theory that has to explain Consciousness and has to include this extra Dimension because what I am saying is that mental time is an extra Dimension.

Okay, now everyone is convinced of the good, but there is another characteristic of Consciousness that is really crucial and this has to do with what I call the deceptive Present Pres. This is the minimum time scale of experience that you see when we are normal human beings. There is only a minimum amount of time we can experience, which is something like a tenth. second, imagine that my finger is a light, if I move this light in a circle, you will see that the light rotates well, but if it rotates too fast, if it rotates more than 10 times a second, you will not see it as moving, you will see a light continuous, then there is no time on a time scale less than a tenth of a second, which is basically the present species.

On the other hand, if this little light moves too slowly, you won't see it move. Or that has to do with the time scale of memory, so our experience of time only extends over a very short range of times, from something like a tenth of a second, maybe a thousand seconds, okay, that is what we mean by human consciousness, so this concept of speeches. present is a very old concept, it actually goes back to William James, it goes back over 100 years, but even many philosophers don't talk about it, so Consciousness comes with a deceptive present and our deceptive present is essentially, roughly , let's say a tenth of a second, now we as humans are very arrogant, we assume that that is the only level of Consciousness in the universe, well, at least non-human, yes, yes, okay, absolutely fine.

I guess exactly when I say arrogantly humans I don't mean everyone. humans, I mean, especially most of my scientific colleagues would assume that we are the most important form of consciousness uh, obviously not, probably not most of you, but the question is, therefore, this present species, I said, is a tenth of a second, but in reality it can change and we all know that it can change depending on the circumstances. I suppose you have had the experience of being in a crisis situation, let's say you are falling off a mountain. I don't know if anyone has ever fallen off a mountain. but you know that time seems to slow down or maybe you are in a car accident and the outside world everything seems to be in slow motion, that is because your deceptive present has shrunk and that happens, you can have another experience for example where your species expands present I know of a case where someone who was very sick was lying in bed and saw this flashing light in the window and could not understand what it was, but it turned out that this flashing light was arising at sunset but his deceptive present had disappeared. expanded so that it appeared to be a flashing light, it's a question of the relationship between your mental time and your physical time now, of course, most neuroscientists would probably think that can be explained. be because there must be some kind of time clock inside the brain, so for example, sir, one second, because there are many things, if each of those things, if we break them down together, it will be absolutely good because it is saying so many things. things that by the time we get back no, me, but you are too, so yeah, yeah, the important thing is, uh, I think Anston is committing incest, yeah, when he says we're marrying time and space, I don't know yes he said.

You said it or not because what we see as space in my experience is a consequence of time, time has given rise to space and our sense of time is essentially due to cyclical moments, otherwise we do not know time at this moment, the people are sitting here. Well, if this lasts an hour and a half, they have to do it, they're fine, no matter how much truth you tell, if 4 hours go by, they'll slowly slip away because it's not the clock, their bladder keeps time, yeah, their butt keeps time. The lower back keeps the time Hello, suppose they didn't have a body.

We take away their bodies. So if we sit here for 2 million years, they won't have any problems. We, as physical beings, are a consequence of time, which are essentially cyclical moments of the physical material that we are. A consequence of that, if we rise above our physicality, there is no sense of time in us. This is unfortunately what Western observers say is trans. he, in his experience, is sitting for a few moments, it is a living experience for me in my life, then there are a large number of people who went into deeper processes where, if you make them sit in a certain state, they do not know any meaning weather. time like that, so how much impact when I said you can be crushed by time or you can be trapped by time or you can be freed by riding time?

How deeply you write identified with your physicality, that is the power that time has over you. If you are not so physically identified now you are a scientist you have a lot going on up there now you go to your laboratory or wherever you go you don't know when to eat there are some people their stomach tells them all the time when to eat when to go to the bathroom when they should go back to go to the office you will see that many of them in 8 hours of work go to the bathroom four or five times and they go to eat and drink another five times because they are completely governed by the body if suddenly you become more interested in something else you don't know when to eat when to urinate when not to because the body's influence over you the power of the body disappears once the power of the body disappears over you the power of Time is gone from you, so if you completely free yourself from that, you are in the process More Beyond Time, but how did we get to this?

We consider the human body as a construct like this, there is a physical body that is an accumulation of the food we have eaten. This is the hardware we built. There is a software you call mental space. Sorry, headspace. It is a mental body. We also call it body. We call everything body. We call it the five aspects. body because body means you can observe, you can learn space is a WG thing, so there is a mental body, there is memory, information and intelligence throughout, so the mental body, this is the software. The hardware and software together can't do anything unless it's plugged into power, so the third layer we call it pranay kosha or the energy body, so it's plugged in and these things are working.

Most human beings live their lives between mental physical bodies. Very rarely there can be a little experience. The chronic body or the energy body. the next dimension of the body is called vosha Viana literally means it is Gana means to know means to know Viana means it is a combination of two words VES Gan which means extraordinary knowledge extraordinary knowledge means anything that we do not perceive through our sensory perception but we perceive it so we call it vesan or Vian today in India the word science has been described as Vian at this time in school subjects it is called Vian because we say this is an extraordinary knowledge because what your eyes could not see, your telescope saw, So we are saying that you have extraordinary knowledgebecause beyond sensory perception you extended it in some way, no matter how you extended it in some way using a physical mechanism or using your own power of extending your eyes in some way or another, you saw something that your eyes cannot see, so which we call it vigan, so general science is called vigan now in India, so this vosha, for lack of words in English, some people describe it as the etheric body, what this means is that it is a body of transition between the physical and the non-physical, there is a transition, so now From what you are saying, because I am not a great scientist by any standard, so what I perceive is that science is putting its tentacles a little bit or, What do you call this, the cockroach, the antennas, antennas that you are putting your antenna on?

You see, but we cannot enter the fifth layer of the body, we call it the body of bliss, not because there is a bubble of bliss inside it, simply because we do not know what its nature is, because it is not physical at all, we cannot define it with no words or describe it. by any description then we say Bliss body because this is a child's language, it's like if a child sees a speaker, let's say a speaker like this and you say boom boom, then in that language we are speaking, when we touch it our experience becomes so Bliss Blissful. so we are saying that this is a body of happiness, we are not saying that that is the nature of that, we are saying that when we touch it we eat something and it says that it is sweet because sweet is our experience, that is not the nature of what it is , this is our experience, so now we call it Bliss body, please, I'm not trying to counter something, I'm just trying to define my understanding of this from what you're saying.

I see that you are nibbling VI, but cross it if you don't come out the other day I called it a dungeon today I will continue to be Foundation the fundamentals of logic you must cross because logic can only work with two this and that without that you can't now these two things have been gone to Here it has to be like this for someone to get married. time and space that needs to happen within us. This marriage of time and space or fusion of time and space can only happen if you transcend your physical nature, otherwise it will not go there.

I fully accept that one gets to a point Beyond Logic Beyond Mathematics but, nevertheless, I would argue that one can extend logic in mathematics beyond the physical domain because I was making a distinction between physical time and other time. level of time that is not physical but is nevertheless subject to logic and mathematics, so I think what I think. What I'm saying is that there is an intermediate regime between the material domain that most physicists think about and that domain that goes beyond logic and mathematics together, so I think that what I'm talking about, what What I am nibbling on, if you like, is from that intermediate regime. domain, so I don't think that's in contradiction to what you're saying, but I mean, I was talking earlier about how your experience of the misleading present can change, but that was all in the circumstances where the species present was presumably related with what was happening in the physical body, but the point I wanted to make is that you can have a psychic or mystical experience where your experience of time is very different, so for example you could have a near-death experience where everything Your life is seen in an instant, okay and not just like that, your 100 years are only seen in a moment because, in a sense, your deceptive presence in that state of mind has expanded into a complete life and As I understand it, it comes from literature, no.

From experience it is that in various mystical States it is as if you can expand by changing your deceptive present like the dial of a radio so that you experience the world at a different level of Consciousness and that different level of Consciousness corresponding to a different species present and so on. I mean , what I was going to say is that it is very arrogant to assume that the only level of Consciousness in the universe is this human being. I myself don't see why there shouldn't be a hierarchy of levels of Consciousness over time. much larger and much smaller scales than the human being eh, I don't see why, for example, why there shouldn't be a planetary level of Consciousness with a much longer species present, maybe one day, why there shouldn't be a cellular solar level of Consciousness that could last 100 years, could be why there could not be a galactic level of Consciousness and why there could not be a cosmic level of Consciousness, so I would say that within this perspective that is why I am putting emphasis on the species present.

I don't see why there can't be a hierarchy of levels of consciousness associated with different if you like forms of embodiment, but also if I can ask a question because you're using the term, uh, what does this mental time relate to the mind, TRUE? yes, now I'm talking about time related to the mind instead of physics. I am saying that the time we experience only because of our relationship with our body, not with our mind, in our mind we can turn 1 hour into 10 hours into 10 hours. 1 hour we can because on a given day, if you are very happy, the day passes like 10 minutes, if you are depressed, the day passes like an eon, so this is a mental question, how we see the mind, there is something called satand.

You've heard that, right? Have you sat down? No, I don't know the terminology. I think the concept sat means truth or reality. chit means we refer to chit as mind. Anand means happiness, so sat is the reality that is there, but we can only. look at reality through the LIE of our mind it's half there half not there it's half reality it's part of it it's true part of it it's not true chit it's a complete lie you can do anything with it you can look at this and see a dinosaur there really people do that sorry see a you can see a dinosaur or an elephant standing there right now even though it's right you can see an elephant standing there even though it's not there you can look at this person and think oh she is evil you can look at that person and think oh she is beautiful you can look at that person and think about something else all this is like Lies invented in our mind we can invent whatever we want this is the beautiful thing about our mind we can even turn an outright lie into reality a total lie something that never existed we can turn it into our own reality this is a phenomenon that we have a kaleidoscope we can do anything with little information we can do so many things from it but That is not an instrument to explore Kaleidoscope that you can enjoy but you can't turn it into an instrument of exploration.

The body is more reliable. The body never lasts. Hello, but there are different body levels. I mean, what you were saying, physical body, mental body, I mean, me. Right now I am saying that the physical body never lies, it is telling you the truth, isn't it? You want us to stop the mental body, the physical body, I ask you, so I tell you that when you are hungry, you are hungry, this, but the mind can tell you. no, you're not hungry the mind can tell you when you don't need food the mind can tell you that you need to eat but the body tells you the truth especially when it's cold it's cold when it's hot it's hot everything is the way it is except the mind You can do it the way it is way you want.

What is pleasant to one person is unpleasant to another. What is unpleasant is pleasant because the mind creates all these things. This is the mind as we see it now, essentially we are talking about one aspect which is the intellect. which is what today in modern societies we have strived to develop because it produces results for us in daily life. It improves our lives in many ways. What does it essentially mean to improve life? It means that we can manage our survival process more and more efficiently. Every improvement is why, compared to how our grandparents lived and how we live today, each of us probably has 10 to 20 times more than they had, we are not happier or more liberated. that they, although people say it's not like that when you look at people on the street, their faces drive the cars of their dreams, when you look at their faces you know that they are not better people who walked or rode a bike, they were like that in last.

I am not saying that we are more miserable but we cannot complain because of these Comforts we become more joyful we become more comfortable more convenient life more possibilities in the physical world we accept all that but this does not change the experience because it is the mind that can create what you want some people who manage their mind well see a good image in their kaleidoscope some people who don't know how to handle it see a bad image all the time but that has nothing to do with reality so when we are using an instrument like this to explore the fundamental reality of our existence.

It will give us a bad image. The telescope is a good thing. No, so can I ask you a question? Because you're talking about seeing the dinosaur or the elephant. I didn't, that was just your example, but, but, would you consider our theories of physics, our theories of the world to be like the dinosaur and the elant? I'm not saying that you see the theories of the world, I'm not saying that they are all wrong, that's why I said that they point in the right direction, but even if you point in the right direction, let's say right now our vision is like another, like a fly or a a grasshopper or a mosquito is only 10 feet away, let's say we both can see only 10 feet, we can think, okay, there are two rows of people sitting there, maybe there are 20 rows, maybe there are more people and we start looking, but still our eyesight improves.

I'm not going to get a good look at them, but it's extremely important right now. In my perception, science has never pointed in the right direction in the last 25 or 30 years, they are starting to point in the right direction when they point in the right direction. Developing instruments to see beyond is very vital now for the emancipation of humanity from being trapped in its own cycles, but when you talk about eyes, there are physical eyes, but what interests me is that, for example, if one has a out of body experience, you float around, you see things but you don't see anything through your physical eyes, so it's like there is a different level of incarnation B, a different level of eye, a different type of light with What is Exploring the world?

So are you making this comment only in the physical context in each context? Time saying: Suppose it is true that someone slipped out of his body and floated. I can show you some examples that are incredibly common. which will be shocking to most people coming out, let's say someone here ran away, she's a good candidate, she ran away from her body and spun around, but to see the physical light you need these eyes, you can't . I cannot see physical light with my eyes. hands you need these two eyes to see the physical light because this whole problem of light has arisen because many people are taking literally what is considered metaphorical.

I think it was panjali who made the mistake, maybe even someone before him. must have where he said if you move away from your psychological and physiological process, a new light will arise within you when he says light, he is not talking about this physical light that travels at 186,000 m per second, he is talking about a new Clarity. has arrived you see things totally different because things are very clear to you but to see this light you need these two without these two you don't see this light well but but this lady she is not this one she is using oh sorry I have the wrong lady , but is it true to say that you are using a different type of eyes and a different type of light?

We cannot call it eyes because when someone is beyond the body he does not see anything, but that does not mean that there is any experience that comes due to inherent inclinations that we call karmic wasanas, that means that because you have a certain volume of information, even in your More subtly, you have a certain volume of information, if there is no intention, C creates a bias. suppose you sit here, you have no intention of what you should do right now, you follow your inclinations, some people will pluck the flower like this, some people will drink something, some people will smoke something, some people will just sit here and dream something So.

It is an inclination, if you do not have an intention, naturally your memory creates an inclination which we call inclination, since vasana wasana literally means smell. That's why we call it wasana because in the animal world it is a smell that plays an important role even in human life. Smell plays a very important role, but people don't notice it simply because of their brain activity. Much research has been done on this. Now, there's a lot of kinds of research that people say that these scientists say, "Okay, they're saying you could have chosen a husband." or a wife or a partner in your life because of an unconscious sense of smell you have about that person smelly people.

I am interested in levitation phenomena, for example, and the famous case of SantaTheresa who would levitate now that in itself would not be a mystical experience because a psychic researcher would say, "Oh, she is levitating", we must measure how high she goes and how far she moves, so I accept that it is not a mystical phenomenon in itself, but since Teresa herself was having a mystical experience, for her it was a state of ecstasy, so it was a link between being etic and mystical, why be in ecstasy and mystical? Well, I have no experience in mystical experiences.

Let me come see right now. Recently, a journalist is asking me, sadguru, if there is any achievement in your life. life what is m I said tears what do you mean by tears I said every day millions of people if they close their eyes tears of ecstasy wash their cheeks this is the only achievement I have rest is all circus rest is circus only in the In the world you have to do a circus to attract people to that process, so being ecstatic happens if you stop creating unpleasant things inside of you when I say unpleasant things, you sit here and think, oh, what is she doing?

She is writing what she will do. She will do well. I don't. I don't think she understands it well. This is a genuine opinion. Does she understand what I'm talking about? He's fine? This is what I'm saying. These thousand things are there. He's not even aware. These things are multiplying by millions. As you grow up, all this Muk that you think is your thought process, your emotions and your opinions, especially, you are in a university full of opinions, okay with all these opinions, you can't see anything clearly, so you just represses all opinions. What you have requires a lot of work there are people around me for 20 30 years the same people I don't have a single opinion about them only when it comes to work I have to do something with them then I have an opinion about whether they can do this or not do this but when I only look at them I only look at them as they are now I don't care how they were 10 years ago I don't care how they were yesterday when I look at them now I see them as they are because this is very important for what I do otherwise oh this is possible this is a candidate for Enlightenment this is not good that is good this has good genetics that has bad genetics all of this is garbage it has nothing to do all of these things have something to do with their bodies and minds.

I have nothing to do with your body or your mind, so you may think that loving your Guru is a great thing. I don't think anything about it because love is a simple emotion that even a dog can do very well better than you hello, we are giving it a lot of importance and exporting it to heaven and saying that God is love, this is because people have grown up without love. I'll tell you a sample. Can I tell you a little situation? I was going to speak in Aviv, unfortunately there was a situation there a few years ago and I'm flying.

Out of Atlanta, I have to land around 11:30 in the morning and talk at 6:30 in the afternoon, but some flight delays and I end up landing there at 6:00 in the afternoon in these 40 years I don't do it have made. I was late for only one event, so I don't want you to know that it's a commitment that I have to not be late, so I quickly change at the airport and rush to the event and I'm hungry, uh, because I'm flying on an airline American there is nothing edible there is nothing edible on that plane peanuts, not even that, they throw you some dog robots, whatever, nothing edible for me, so this, whatever, these ground nuts that they give you only in nationally, internationally, it's just pot of dog in some bread and something just isn't for me, so I'm really hungry, but you know I have to get there on time.

I rush through it and then discover, to my surprise, that it never happens to me. I'm speaking at a good time. restaurant this is coherence so I enter and the people are already there they are greeting me a man comes up and says Shalom I ask him what it means he says this is the highest form of greeting I told him okay that is your opinion but what does it mean? He says no, no, this is the highest way of greeting. Said. Alright. What does the word mean? So he says it means peace. I said why is peace the highest form of greeting?

Unless you are born in the Middle East. In South India, someone comes to me in the morning and says peace, yes, I say what's wrong with you, so I say whatever you slowly deprive yourself of. It rises to heaven, you have not seen peace in your life, peace becomes God, you have not seen love. your life love becomes God you have not seen joy in your life Bliss becomes God no, these are all simple human emotions so if Saint Teresa walked happily I am happy for her today I can show you if not Millions at least hundreds and thousands thousands of people who are happy at least during parts of the day.

I am blessed all the time, yes, but for me, simply closing my eyes and crying are just two moments. I will be there, there are many, many people. like this here and everywhere so it's wonderful if that woman walked like that it's something fantastic because that's how a human being should be you shouldn't make her a saint she's a wonderful human being and every human being should be like that They should walk like that the streets when they see the flowers on the tree. Tears must flow when they see the clouds. Tears should flow when they see a child.

Tears should flow when you close your eyes. Tears must flow. Tears of love and ecstasy, not tears. of misery and pain, so right now it becomes a rarity in a certain society, now suddenly you think it has God inside it, now it doesn't need God, human beings are capable of experiencing these things. I'm saying that these are all experiences that almost all human beings have at some point in a moment of love or joy or something have come to tears, it's just not common if it was part of your fantastic life, but in eastern societies there are many saints. so always live like this I'm not trying to bring her down all I'm telling you is levitation or I'm not talking about levitation because that's a matter of breathing hydrogen not oxygen I'm saying I don't want to bring her down.

My job is to lift up humanity, not to knock someone down from the sky, so unfortunately in those societies, because everyone else is in a mess, if a human being stands up, you think he fell from the sky. above no, she Rose is wonderful to her, well they did, yes, but I say there's nothing mystical about that, I mean, that's a question I can say, it's clearly a spiritual experience, let's say, oh, spiritual it is Well, I mean the laboratory. Because we are trying to make some distinctions between spiritual psychic and mystic so that your experience we can clearly put it in the category of a spiritual experience, that is fine because it is a matter of semantics and no, no, these are not semantics, they are distinctions clear. in experience, see, when you look at it from the outside intellectually, it is equivalent to semantics in terms of experience, what happens in my body is physical, what happens in my mind is mental, what happens in my emotions is emotional, what It happens in my spirit, it is spiritual, it is clearly there. no one can question that because someone is questioning it from outside because they can't see it if someone is shedding tears of love we can sit here and think oh maybe some pain this is our conclusion but you can be happy with love and tears it may be turning out to be possible, so the semantic problem arises because we are external observers of human subjectivity, that will never work, whether she was having a spiritual or mystical experience.

I know. I bow to your knowledge because I'm not saying I haven't done it. She had a mystical experience because people observed that she is crying in ecstasy, which is a spiritual experience. She might have had mystical experiences that she can't show people, how she will show them herself, but the question she was going to ask was if she was interested. in the state of psychic phenomena because the reason I am interested in psychic phenomena is because I see them as a link between matter and spirituality between science and spirituality because in the psychic I can do this because this is there, you know, in the middle, they have it broken for some reason they didn't want the tail and the head to come together who did it anyway look uh Psychological phenomena are an extension of the mind yes, we can extend our body if we want, now We can do a simple experiment ourselves, sir.

What we do is please sit with our spine erect, what we will do is put our hands together like this and we will vigorously rub these two hands with our eyes closed for let's say 30 to 30 seconds, okay, like this, 30 seconds is a long time. well, my deceptive presence is changing and now, keeping your eyes closed, just spread them 3 to 4 apart, okay, something happens between your two hands, something a little bit, whatever, let's not try to define it, describe it, it's an extension of the body. You can extend the body in this way right now you have heard ghost legs and you think that someone loses a leg or a hand even though the physical leg is no longer there, they still experience it because in the extended body, yes, as there is a physical body , there is an energy body. which can remain intact if the loss of the body is very sudden so there are tantrics we should not go here I am entering dangerous territory in a university why should I commit suicide like this let me leave the tantrics alone so that there are people who can leave their body here and go and doing something and coming back again is called paraka provis, that means you enter into something else, this is an extension of the body, which is a psychic extension of the body and mind, doing something is a psychic process what you are talking about.

Teresa, that is a spiritual experience that we are seeing, whether you are having a mystical experience or not, no one will know that you may or may not have had it, but definitely, if you are completely happy, you are having a spiritual experience, yes, I'm just trying to define that, but what I mean is that from the point of view of the extension of science, these phenomena are interesting because you can study these phenomena using the kind of techniques that a scientist would use . You know, you can try telepathy in a laboratory you can try psychokinesis if you can affect because they are all psychic phenomena telepathy telekinesis uh, whatever else people are talking about, these are all psychic phenomena that I personally have no interest in because there is no way will elevate a human being beyond their limitations exactly, it will just make them a little more competent, it's like I'm using a bad example again, if I have to kill someone, I should go there and do something to them, but if I have a gun since here I can shoot.

For them, this is psychic phenomenal from here. I can do things. I don't have to go there and do things to make a gun more efficient than a knife. In the UK they still use knives, that's why I say there are some weapons, but. many knives, yes, so I am saying that psychic phenomena are like this, you are stretching your psychological and physical forces to do certain things and return, but this will only give you at most a small advantage in the world, you will not ascend anywhere. I accept it, but the reason I emphasize it is because in the attempt to expand science to accommodate these phenomena, this has nothing to do with helping someone become enlightened, but I still say that it is useful, it is Of interest to me, yes. because this is how I can expand science to accommodate these phenomena, if you want, it's part of the path towards unifying science and spirituality, so even if you say it's not of interest, I'm saying you don't have to accommodate this, let's rule it out.

All the things I'm saying now in my opinion, science is looking in the right direction, they have to extend their gaze. I'm asking, can you build a telescope that can see something that is not physical in nature? That's what they need to do and the answer is not physics with math. I'll get to that, because we are talking about time, which I see as the most basic entity from infinity to zero, it is a manifestation of time, so it is an infinite space because it is a mixture of time and space has always been thus, time is a fundamental firmament, space is happening above it now Beyond this time we refer to it as a cyclical process because time as we know and experience it now exists only due to cyclical motion The planet rotates one day the moon rotates around one month the planet rotates around the sun one year this is our experience of time and similar cycles are happening in our own bodies and in various phenomena in the world, but time that is not cyclical, which is just a We call this stillness mahakala, which means that the greater the time, there is a particular place consecrated in the center of India which used to be the center of time for many millennia before the British came to India and they changed it to Green, which meanwhile was the meanwhile in the world because the sea travelers of Asia because that's where this started it was considered the timeline this is where time started so there they established a particular deitywhich is called mahakal so don't let me get into that stuff, but essentially things were made so that people can experience something beyond the limitations of their body because if you don't cross the limitations of your body you won't cross the time cycles of no way do what you want while this body is there you are within the manifestation of the cycle of time so right now you are looking in the right direction if you can only build a telescope somehow or the telescope does not necessarily have to be a pipe physics, if even all these numbers can go there and read something or see something that is non-physical in nature, absolutely non-physical in nature, then science will see what is there, otherwise we are looking in the direction but without eyes, so the question is how can physics do that.

I mean, for example, people are interested. I think we should stop doing it. The word physics, because I'm talking about crossing the physical well, I mean even the word, when I talk about expanding physics to accommodate these phenomena, it's not clear if that's the right word because most physicists won't want to call it physics. . I'll say it's philosophy or something, but um, I'm quite happy, in fact, I tend to use another word, I tend to use the word hypophysics, this is a pretty good science, a systematic form of yes, but, but you see inside physics itself, there's the whole question of what physics is among physicists is a big problem now, what do we consider physics because some of the ideas that I talked about yesterday, like M-Theory and these Hard Dimensions, we still don't have no instrument that actually detects these additional Dimensions? so people will say, I mean, physicists will say, some physicists will say this is not physics, this is just mathematics or even it's just philosophy.

Now what's interesting to me is that what we mean by science has constantly evolved in the old days. You used to think that science was all about experiments, but if you're an astronomer you can't do experiments with stars and galaxies, in a sense the universe does the experiments for you because you have billions of stars and billions of galaxies, so that the universe does the experiments, but it's still crucial that you make observations, but that only works because you have millions of galaxies and millions of stars, so people would say, well, you only have one. universe, so how can cosmology be a proper part of science, but now we accept that it is part of science, it is part of physics because we understand the theory that explains the universe and now we are talking on what basis?

We come to this conclusion: there is only one Universe, well, exactly now that leads to the next one. You already anticipated my next point, which is that now people talk about the multiples, not spiritual or mystical, it is psychic and yes, well, the point is the Multiverse. In a sense it's only in the mind because we can't see the other universes and I get into a lot of things. I have written a book about the Multiverse or Multiverse universe and one gets into discussions with other physicists who say that this is not physics. because you can't see the other universe and a crucial pointThe thing about science is that it has to be something you can see, you have to get evidence, but there are many things in science and in physics in particular that you can never see, but We still accept that physics can never be seen inside a black hole, but everyone except most physicists accepts that that is part of physics.

You can never see a quark, which is the subatomic particle that makes up neutrons and protons, but everyone agrees that this is part of physics, so now in physics we are used to the idea that there are things. which we can't see or get direct evidence for it, but it's considered physics because it's part of this mathematical framework because at least part of the theory can be tested now, so one of the counterarguments you mentioned is the Multiverse even though you can't. If you look at these other universes, you can argue that they are still part of physics because they are predicted by theories of physics that can be tested indirectly, but what I am saying is that there is a whole controversy even within physics about what physics is and what does it consist of.

In a sense, our physics paradigms now are essentially just mental models because the concept of reality, when you talk about hard dimensions and quantum theory, I mean, quantum theory obviously has experimental proof, but these Hard Dimensions don't have experimental proof yet. , so it really is a creation of the mind if you said psychic in a sense it is psychic it is a creation of the mind because at this moment we do not have the eyes, if you like, with which to really perceive the return to Santa Teresa, suppose that comes out of it. happiness she told everyone where she was in what part of oh well she came from Europe I've actually forgotten what city she was in okay Aila in Italy yeah if she told the Europeans to make this world their home if she has tears of happiness , I'm sure she feels that way and she said make this world your home, so the Europeans thought we should make our home so big that it should cover the whole world, which they tried now, that's a disaster, so physics It means studying the phenomena of the physical world, if it reaches the edge of the physical, we must get out of there and create a new science. making you are changing your view of what science is to accommodate these things and, in fact, you are changing your view of what physics is to accommodate these things and that is part of the challenge and that is why The more mainstream science community is reacting against that, I mean, some of them are reacting against things like High Dimensions, which are relatively respectable in the sense that famous scientists work on them, so there are even more reactions against This idea that you can extend science to accommodate the Multiverse and psychic experience or whatever, but I'm just saying that's part of the process of linking science and spirituality.

What you mean by the nature of science is changing, but the nature of science has always changed historically and, if ever, science. of spirituality merges in some sense it will mean that scientists have to become more spiritual uh no I wouldn't say that okay uh what I would say is right now this whole fallacy of science and spirituality what is it that we call science If something is a systematic approach to knowing something and if you see it too it is the same way if I also see it the same way and 10 other people see it it is still the same way that means it is not just a purely subjective experience so we say it is science right, I am right, that is the old version of science, okay, we will use the old version, yes, because we are both in that state, so now what we call spirituality is also a system that If I clarify, this is the way if you do this and this will happen to you if of these 100 people with OD, even if 50 people can experience it, in my opinion, it is science because I clearly mark some steps and they take those steps and they get to that experience.

I must tell you this some time ago, a man very exposed to all kinds of spiritual things around the world, said that he has been with JK. I don't know if you have heard of JK J Krishna morti, yes, yes, he was with JK for It was a long time until he passed away in Ohigh and then he was with Rajanish, he was with mom, what's his name Anand May Ma, and he was with a teacher European and was with ug Krishna morti, who was another guy from Bangalore, all this and then. he came and stayed in our yoga center for 2 weeks after 2 weeks he said can i meet saru?

I didn't know he was there, so I said he was fine, then one afternoon I met him and he said: sguru like this. I've been to all these places. He said it, you are a failed candidate everywhere and you come here now, what am I doing with you? He said no, no, sguru, I have to say this. I didn't come here for anything. I was already like 79 something when I met him. He said no. I'm not looking for anything. I'm everyone. of them has contributed I have read you and I have seen you and all that I just wanted to see you that is all I want to say is that I have been to all those places experienced so many things, each one of them improved my life in some way, but you You are the only one who has a spiritual factory.

I said, what do you mean? I said every week. I only see people. Ordinary people come there when they are there. Coming out after 3 and a half days, everyone is full of joy, shouting and dancing and going batch after batch, batch after batch, they come and go the same way, this is a spiritual factory, so I thought this was cool. idea because a factory means producing things more efficiently than handmade things. I called people and I know they won't accept that. I said we should call this Isa Spiritual Factory, yes, because the efficiency with which you are functioning is a Spiritual Factory. we have a launch, whoever comes this way, when it comes out, at least reasonably, it will come out that way, so when we can produce the same thing or bring a lot of people to something similar or, if not, similar. experiences repeatedly over and over again not in a few years not in 200 years like science for thousands of years we can do that why that's not science one thing if this is not the Infinity it's supposed to be and and no and okay you should delete and Science and Science, but you'll see one of the interesting points was that science is normally supposed to take a third person perspective of the world when you talked about how this isn't, that's why I said this example, this guy was taking a third person view. person and saw that this is a spiritual factory, people are implementing at the same level of experience, but the point is experience, when you talk about a science of mind, you are talking about experience, not experiment, I think this I am saying the same thing as no, no, no, I mean, don't translate an experience just to the mind today.

Bala is trying to study that experience chemically, well, blood chemistry and whatever else I don't want to get into. because I don't care how long you tell me, but all those things are important to science today, okay now they say that endocanites have increased by any percentage, it's much more than what happens in sexual orgasm just sitting here, because? This is not science, it is measurable. I agree. I'm saying you should have a science of experience, so I think I agree with you there. The experience is not scientific. Experience is very subjective human, but you cannot measure it at the level of experience at the level of what is happening in the body, you can measure it, what is happening in your chemistry, you can measure it because all human experience has a chemical basis, but That's reducing everything to materialistic, uh, no, no, look. right now just because we both have a body here we can harbor a mind in this hello right yes we harbor a mind in this because we have a mind in this we are harboring ideas in it because we have a mind like this harboring mathematics in it you can't harbor all these things if you didn't have a body, so there is nothing wrong with the body, the body is the basis, without this, what can we do?

I can ask you a very specific question, said Guru, I am fascinated by the question of whether Consciousness because Consciousness was the topic of this wonderful meeting. I am interested in the question of whether Consciousness is actually generated by the brain or whether Consciousness is actually just filtered through the brain, in other words where Consciousness is a small AC it is just the manifestation of consciousness with a large sea ​​and I'm interested to know where you stand on this because you're obviously emphasizing the fact that our experience of the world is related to what happens in the body, but that doesn't prove that Consciousness is generated by the body, it just says that Consciousness is housed in the body, so what is your position on that?

Let me put it this way, we were talking about kalor, we are talking about time, space like kala, we are talking about mahakala, which is time but not cyclical in nature, let's say it is consciousness, which is an all-pervading stillness that is powerful today. Nowadays, maybe they call it dark energy, whatever it is. I don't know how you see that, uh, I don't know if there's any scientific way to detect dark energy. I have no idea about that, so don't let me comment, but calling it dark we agree because we also call it dark because we call it. kala kala also means Darkness because space is dark light is just a small event when something burns it emanates light and you can't see the light you can only see its reflection look right now there is light passing through here you can't see it only if it is my hand it stops it then you can see it otherwise you can't see it so we are not in Exploration we are not worried about the light so the first thing we do is close our eyes because the light is a big deception the light is giving you the wrong Perspective of everything, so the moment you depend on light you become physical, you become only physical with opaque things.

I am saying you can see the hand, you can't even see the air you breathe because you can't see anything vital. here if you depend on light then the first thing is to close your eyes because the sensesthey fool you when we said Maya we didn't say because today philosophers are saying that nothing exists it is only there because you are looking at it recently young boy asked me a question I think the video came out somewhere today this boy is asking if sguru is the Universe there before that me or it's just my projection. I said you were a young man before you came.

I was here and the universe was there. Don't imagine those things, you came and projected the universe for me. Okay, I'm saying this is a simplistic understanding of any deep science anyone has ever experienced. It's all because those three scientists won the Nobel Prize. Everyone thinks they now know the Universe does it. It doesn't exist if the universe doesn't exist, what the hell are you doing here? it's just that it doesn't exist as you see it this is maya maya means illusion illusion means it doesn't necessarily not exist it's not the way you think it is, it's not the way you perceive it for the sake of your survival, it's a completely different phenomenon, but you see it this way because that's how you can survive, otherwise you can't survive having said that, so let's assume this.

Non-cyclical time, which is the basis of space, is consciousness. Well, when we kids would have all blown a soap bubble, whether I was doing it or looking through the telescope, sir, it depends on the age, but I mean, I was blowing, I was blowing soap bubbles. until yes soap bubbles 15 I guess so, you blew, you blew this big bubble I blew that big bubble now I said look that's my bubble the big bubble is my bubble this is your bubble this is my bubble pooped so I don't say this it is my air this is your air it is the same air that we both captured you captured so much I captured so much so now the entire yogic system is focused on how much you can capture if you capture more of that which you are calling as Consciousness, which is an intentional intelligence without memory with which if you give it a little memory it finds expression in so many forms, so you and I are a type of forms that found expression because we gather memory, this memory we call karma whenever your karma is there you can blow a bubble because you have soap although there is air you can't blow a bubble you need soap then soap is this karmic information without information you can't blow the bubble now if you have if your soap is very thick you can't blow a big bubble it will be small but heavy it doesn't fly it just goes down and it bursts you know you've seen both you blow a lot of soap it just gets heavy it goes and lands there you blow it real good light and slowly it gets this big now it floats away because the wall is so thin so if you get like that be it whatever, this sister, what Teresa, the same Teresa, I'm so sorry, Teresa.

Saint Teresa blew a bubble, that is. floating others see and think oh she came down from the sky no she is floating because she has inflated a big bubble of herself now the bigger the bubble the easier it is to burst it and that is called Nana M MOA because at some point we want to burst it, because? Would I like to burst my own life bubble? That's because you read the memory that's written on this and watched it from beginning to end because you simply have amnesia or you don't even remember what it was like in your mother's womb. no you don't remember, you just remember some things here and there and you pick up some nice things and you say my life is fantastic, if you really look at it your whole life is generally routine. he said you have to go shopping you have to cook you have to washing It's a routine everything's fine here and there moments of joy excitement this and that happened you're just trying to remember that and paint a beautiful picture of your life it's wonderful psychologically it's a good thing but it's not a way to explore the reality of one's own existence.

Seeing that you want to live a good life is one thing, wanting to know the basis of life itself is another thing. This aspiration may not be present in everyone. and it's perfectly fine for someone to just want to live a good life, all they want is nice chemistry. We can teach them a simple way to make their chemistry enjoyable. Most people would be satisfied with that because generally that's all they go to the temples, the mosquito church, where is it? is your prayer what is the prayer on the planet dear God give me this give me that save me protect me make me healthy give me a little more than my neighbor yes what else is this all the prayer on the planet is like this otherwise no no no no that's how I go there to be grateful for what you received last time so that you don't forget next Christmas this happened let me tell you a joke to make it serious two children brothers went to grandma's house for Christmas so prayer is required before going to bed .

The older boy sat down and knelt down and started praying, he wanted a puppy for Christmas, so he's praying, dear Lord, let me have a puppy and what breed and everything. The younger boy, who is wiser, shouted loudly dear. Lord I need a bike dear Lord I need a bike so this big boy says what nonsense why are you shouting? God can hear he said I don't care if God listens or not I want grandma to listen Can I ask you another question? It doesn't follow up if it's not asking too much if I give you a very simple line uh usually in science you call it theory yeah I call it my experience if I give you a simple line can you build mathematics for that?

It could be the telescope, well, my question was going to be this: we started talking about the cycle of the universe and there was something that intrigued me in one of your films or in one of the interviews that I heard you talk about. about the fact that there were a certain number of cycles 84 84 exactly, so I was intrigued not by 42, which is the answer to everything in Western, but by 84, which of course is double 84 and double 42, so I'm fascinated. where does the figure 84 come from and why 84 well you already heard that video so I'll leave that part out no but they didn't and I see uh there's a continuous chatter about the Big Bang Yeah, I was talking to one of the scientists who wrote a book about it endless universe yeah endless universe that's the title of the book Paul Paul son of yes so I met him at D and he was setting up a computer simulation of what it might have been like when I looked at the computer. simulation this is a shape we work with every day we call it linga the word linga comes from the word Lina Lina means the shape we call it the shape the shape shape F shape what are you saying Shape H shape shape shape sorry shape oh shape shape thank you , it's my English accent, okay, silly, oh, now I understand it, so we call it yeah, why it's called shape is because it was the first shape, so when he breathed out and when the energy played in his body and little particles of creation began to form. cycles and creation making mahakala a big moment in a simple atomic time process then he turned red when he put it together He stood up like this, that shape I'm seeing on his computer, this is a shape that you always know people love and with the that works so In many ways I see that this guy had it on his computer.

I told him how you got this. He said that he had been working on simulating the Big Bang. Then I asked him a simple question: Is it possible that there had been many explosions? He did like this and then he said possible, then I said if there are many banks, see if you have a car, if you remove the manifold, you will see that the engine will go bang bang bang bang, if you accelerate it will roar, so I said if there was a series. of banks could have been a ro, he said why not, possibly I said we have always said it is a roar, so we called the first form, since rudra rudra means the one who roars, he roared like that, then we evolved many forms to describe this this was mahakala this was kala this was rudra this a first form and then the many forms how they emerged there are several aspects these things are not today these things have been talked about millennia ago how do you know all this the simple thing is like this, if you look at this piece of creation, all creation is present in the form of a trace.

Looking at my footprint, suppose I walk through the garden. By looking at my footprint, you can measure my weight, my height, my door, you can even guess how. Am I smart depending on how I navigate spaces? You can see how smart you are in this country. Everyone, you know, is talking about this all the time. Native Americans could read footprints and footprints. How many people are happening? There are so many details in it because the imprint leaves many things, so in many aspects of this creation you will never be able to see this through a physical or even mental approach because we see the mind as a physical projection mind.

It's a slightly more subtle projection of the body's M, so these things can't be seen. But the footprint can be seen with the footprint. You can know most things. The only thing you can't know is what my nature is. You can't know it, but you can figure it out. If I walk through difficult terrain, say, you can easily discover how smart I am. You can find out what my thinking is. People do this by looking at animal tracks. I do it myself by looking at the print. I know where it's going. He's hungry, he's not hungry, he's hunting, he's just walking.

I have survived in the jungles because I see these things very clearly, so look at the imprint of creation if you have many of these numbers that I do not have. Numbers in my head The only number I have is this one or sometimes it becomes like this. I don't have any other numbers so I don't worry about that, but if you have all these numbers, if I show you the fingerprint, can you? build a mathematical ladder for that, if you build that, we can say that scientists are seeing something that their eyes or their telescopes can't see, yes, but can I ask a follow-up question because one of the reasons why cosmologists Like me, we like to invoke psychic universes because of the seemingly miraculous attunements of the physical constants that are required for life to emerge.

This is what is called the anthropic principle that there are inexplicable coincidences between the constants of physics that are required for observers to arise in the universe and one of the explanations for this is that you have many cycles of expansion and collapse of the universe and Every time you have a balance you change the constants, so the idea is that many of these cycles are simply empty, without mind, without consciousness, but from time to time the constants have the correct values ​​for Consciousness to arise and, therefore, So one of the reasons you invoke cycles of the universe is that it means that occasionally you are going to be in a universe, well you have to be in one of the Cycles that is suitable for life, so this is an example . of the Multiverse does that relate at all to why 84 look at this 84 how we're talking about it?

There are yogis who have done a lot of mathematics. I am not one of them. Am. well knowing it from my experience I don't want to write it on the board I don't have the competence let me tell you that competence comes only when you worry about something otherwise you don't acquire those competences so these 84 of these 84 many have dissolved their naked footprint is there but they have dissolved but the imprint is there on this 21 of them have a slightly larger imprint oh of these 21 10 are almost non-physical non-physical let's say the remaining 11 are slightly physical, but the last four are reasonably physical, so we see this number 21 as an important process.

Whatever we want to do, we do it in 21 minutes in 21 ways and all this because these 21 still have an imprint if you want to go further. your physicality you absolutely have to rise above all 21 but you don't have to worry about those things because if you rise above the physical nature not only in terms of physical body but even the information is physical, all the information that you

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y and that makes you You, whether you are alive or dead, still makes you that one that we want to elevate beyond that so that the imprint

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ies all of this and outside of 84 21 still manifest at different levels of, for lack of words, I say transience of almost nothing. others under 21 have completely disappeared but their mark is still there they have no influence or impact their qualities are not imprinted in us but these 21 qualities are there in us how many more will happen 112 will happen 112 112 each one of them can take what they Whether they have calculated, the Yas have how long it will take that is not my numbers game, so 112 * will happen after that, it will manifest in a way that is not physical and it becomes a Perpetual Universe, a non-physical universe will be It will manifest that it does not need physical matter but it exists and even individual existence can happen, we do not know what can happen or a massive event can happen, but it is an adequate manifestation of the universe without physicality. when that happens, that's the last one, this is seen as a thing, but I know science will never accept that, so let's leave those things.

All I'm saying is this simple thing I'm talking about if I give you the footprint of how this has evolved if you can create a mathematical backbone. I think it will make sense to a lot of people and you will see further, not with physical eyes, but mathematically you will see much further than where you are looking. Right now that's fascinating because that's not one of the standard modern cosmological theories that you see, but what you're saying is thatyou have these Cycles that at some point evolve beyond the physical. The beautiful thing is that they are defining clearly.

This is because Indian cosmology is constructed and personified in a certain way. Most people of Indian origin will know that there is a coiled snake on which a God is lying. Yes, that snake is called shesha. Shesha means when we learn mathematics in India. Remer languages, what is the name of the rest, the rest is called shesha, what is left is shha, even in our common language we use that shesha means something left over, so this sake is the shesha upon which once again creation begins, like this that this shha left The leftovers There are of the last 21 universes, but the footprint of the rest decreases as you go back and increases as you go forward, but the last four are significant and so was the Consciousness in only some of these universes, not They were all conscious and fully manifested universes. but their time ran out and what was kala became mahakala but it left Footprints on some Footprints are very strong, we can see the exact nature of what they are, some Footprints are very weak and we can barely see that they are there and this is .

The evolution towards after 112 cycles is a non-physical state that corresponds to a kind of evolution of Consciousness in a way that is as if Consciousness graduated, that without physical form it can manifest, that is a very positive note, perhaps which I know we've had. We're coming to the end of our two hours, but that's a really interesting thought and, above all, it made it mathematical. Thank you sir, you made it to the end. Thank you very much sir. Fantastic.