Sadhguru: Pencerahan Akhir Tahun | Endgame #109 (Luminaries)

GITA WIRJAWAN: I feel very honored today to be sitting next to Sadhguru, the yogic mystic visionary who is also the founder of the Isha Foundation. Sadhguru, it is a great honour. SADHGURU: Namaskaram, it is wonderful to have you here and you are the first man I have met by the name of Gita. -She Unfortunately she is not a woman. - No, normally female names are written with a double "e". This is the Gita proper. - I'll tell you a story, my parents were big fans of India, they still are, my father passed away and they were expecting a girl.

But in the '60s they didn't have the technology. -So, due to his disappointment, they gave you "Gita". So they prepared the clothes and the name, but something else came up. I want to ask you some questions, Sadhguru. The first is relevant to how you grew up. You have often referred to your great-grandmother as a role model. -No, she is not a role model. If she were my role model you wouldn't be sitting here with me. - But tell us a little. - There are probably two ways to say this. One thing is that even when I was four or five years old, my thought process was more or less the same as it is today.

So I don't know what the reality is: whether I didn't grow up or whether I was never a child, one way or another, except my physical ability to do things and everything else in life and interactions with life. As a person, which I was then, I am still very much the same person. The only thing is that at that moment the weight of ignorance made me a little serious because I had to pay attention to everything or rather I couldn't pay attention to anything without distancing myself from everything else. If I were to look at the sheet everything else would disappear.

If I look at a man, a woman or a child, everything else will disappear. Maybe my perception as a whole that today I can pay attention and still be aware of everything else, at that moment if I pay attention to something, only that was there, everything else was gone. Even now I did like this, if I close my eyes, that's the end of the world for me. I could sit like this until I drop dead, because deep down inside I don't need to do anything, I don't need to act. Well, we take what is needed and do it.

That's why there is no load, no matter how much activity. There is no burden because you do not carry it heavy on yourself. I'm still the same child of four or five years old, nothing has changed. Maybe I laugh a little more now than then because I found the keys to ecstasy. - You give more importance to ignorance than to knowledge. It's quite contrary and counterintuitive. - Well, it's not. It's just that people go round and round through the ages. Look, in Western culture, for example, because we're here, I'm talking about this. The basic fable or story or parable that comes is about how a man and a woman fell by eating the fruit of knowledge.

Look, knowledge doesn't mean you know everything. Knowledge is an accumulation. The moment accumulating some pieces. If you think you know the entire universe, you are lost. If you pick up some of these sheets and say, "I understand the universe." To do? Right now, this is the human condition. They know details of life and, with those details, they believe they know everything. So people always come back to authority saying that the Gita says this, the Quran says that, the Bible says this, some books say that. Going back to authority essentially means you don't know. Why don't you admit that you don't know?

And this admission is not for me or anyone else, but within yourself. If you know that you don't know, then your intelligence will be on 24 hours a day, awake or asleep; it is always on and probing, exploring or penetrating creation. If I think I know, he will immediately fall asleep. Look, right now it's light and you can walk calmly without paying attention to anything. If you come here late at night, it will be pitch black. If I ask you to walk here you will be super alert. Because? Because you don't know where the next step is.

The moment you don't know it, you see that your alertness is on a completely different level. So even now you don't know; it's just that you assume you know, as we go to universities, we go to schools, we go to academics and a variety of people to draw our own conclusions or go there to confirm the conclusions we already have. This is not exploration; This is not knowing; This is just a collection of knowledge; This is the same old hunting and gathering tribe that is part of civilization. Very rudimentary or primitive part of civilization, we are still there when it comes to the mind, the physical atmosphere maybe we have grown but not really.

They went hunting and gathering; people go shopping; is the same; It's just hunting. - Do you think then that it is necessary to radically change the educational system? - Well, the educational system we have is like an extruder system. You put everything into the same thing and ready-made human beings will emerge. A human being is alive, a unique life. And not only that, on this planet we have the peak of evolution. We are like the flower of evolution. You can't run flowers through the extruder and come out with some kind of shape and say, "This is the new flower." The flower has to bloom with all its fragrance, which means it needs attention and cultivation.

I think very few schools in the world can even attempt or afford to educate children slowly with the necessary care. Because it is an extrusion system, everyone goes in and some type of product comes out. They know physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology... everything. All this has been done because we have made earning a living something too important. Earning a living has become important and absolutely enslaving for our generation because we want to live like anyone else. If your neighbor has a car that is two feet longer than yours, he will want to purchase it. If your neighbor has a diamond bigger than yours, you'll want to get it.

If a neighbor has a bigger house than that, you'll want to get it. It all depends on what neighborhood you live in and how much you want, right? - Good. - It keeps growing like this, so we think this is development; This is the advancement of human civilization. No, this is simply raising the bar of survival higher and higher, so that even if you are a millionaire or billionaire, you are still fighting to survive. This is the dumbest way to live because the idea of ​​prosperity in life, whether for an individual, a society or a nation, is that we don't have to worry about our survival.

That's the idea. Our food and lifestyle choices are there; In short, we can live however we want, and if something significant comes up, we can follow that path. As if people here ask me, "Sadhguru, is it true that the next time Jesus comes, he will come here to Missouri and not to Jerusalem?" I told him, "I don't know where he's going to come, but if he comes to America and says like he said 2,000 years ago, 'Come and follow me.'" Even in Jerusalem only 12 people followed him. Of those 12, one of them got scared. But in America, if you say, "Come follow me," maybe a lot of you feel like it, but you have a student loan, a car loan, a second home loan, 45 years old, your life is already mortgaged;

Where are you going? He also said, "You can't serve money and me at the same time." He said, "You're serving this process of acquiring wealth and serving me won't happen together." against wealth; it is simply that you understand that the richness of life is in your experience, in the depth of your experience, not in the things you accumulate, because everything you accumulate is only relevant to the times in it. that we exist. Look, if you were here 10,000 years ago, you'd have a slightly better stick than me. "Ah, you're a big guy." Nowadays, if you carry a cane and walk, we think you have lost. he.

So today what you have is maybe a car, maybe a house, maybe a suit, maybe this and that. This is a consequence of time, this is not what you are doing. So what we have is only relevant to the limited period of time that we are there and what we collect, whether in terms of material wealth or in terms of knowledge. We will never improve the life we ​​are; It will only improve the social situation. We are misunderstanding that the social situation is life, the social situation is an emotion that we add to our life. - There is an observation that the current generation tends to spend much less time on what matters in the long term, they tend to spend much more time on whatever it is today. - They know that life is short. - So, is short-termism so good? - I didn't say it was good. - You are very serious. - I am nervous.

So, people are trying to live as if there is no tomorrow. It would be fantastic if you lived like this with full awareness. It doesn't matter what comes tomorrow; Are you OK. Things are not like that. You strive to become aware of alcohol, drugs, and various other things; You don't know what's coming tomorrow; That's a stupid way to live. Ignorance is not bliss, as people have been propagating. Look, if you jump off a cliff, it's really wonderful. Have you ever done free diving? Free fall diving? - You should not. It's the most wonderful thing. - Liberator. - Liberating, beautiful, because you don't know if you are simply going up or down or floating up there in space.

The only problem is that if you look down, the damn planet is coming at your great speed, that's the only problem. That is why it is very happy to live with the land. So ignorance is always like that. For a short period of time, it's fantastic. You know nothing. It's great. But when life hits you, it hits you. - I want to go back to what you mentioned before. You mentioned the Gita, the Bible and the Quran. - I haven't read any of them. - I know and I want to get to what you have mentioned above several times in the context of the difference between clarity and confidence.

Tell us. - Well, I'll go back to the same example. Right now if I ask you to walk from here to there, do you need confidence? If you have two legs you will walk. But if it's completely dark, if I ask you to walk, you need confidence. Then your trust is a bridge to cross the abyss of darkness that you do not know. Sometimes it can work. You can shout your motto, whatever it may be, and walk away; maybe you will cross or maybe you will sink. Well, if it works 50% of the time, most people believe they are successful, if they succeed 50% of the time in their life.

That's why they decide everything with a coin: heads I do this, tails I do that. Look, if you are successful only 50% of the time, there are only two professions for you; Or you should become an astrologer or meteorologist. These are the only two professions where you can be right 50% of the time and still keep your job. In any other job, if you're wrong 50% of the time, you're fired, right? So trust is a bridge between things we don't know. Clarity means you see things as they are; You don't need a bridge. You know how to navigate and you don't need confidence because you can see what's there.

So what is the problem? So instead of improving clarity, we are building trust with belief systems, philosophies, and ideologies. A man who believes himself to be very sure of himself is violent by nature. No, they can't approach anything gently. People don't understand this, whether it's a football match or a tennis match or whatever is happening, people are in this mode. Well, right now they may not be hitting you, but there is a need for violence. You are seeing the game itself as a catharsis of your violence. No, there is another way to approach it and function at the highest level because there is substantial medical and scientific evidence that shows that your body and brain will function better only when the experience is pleasurable;

If you are happy, your body and your brain will work at their maximum for the success of any physical activity, sport, music, art, business, whatever it may be. How well you can harness this body and this brain is success, isn't it? It is the basis of success. So if you believe there is a substitute for clarity, you will shift from making plans to relying on predictions. This is the difference between success and chance. Many people succeed by chance. The coin fell the right way, but they live in fear of losing it all the time. They are successful, they are afraid.

If they don't succeed, of course, the whole problem. - A growing number of people around the world seem to think that the world is getting darker. Does that mean the need for more confidence rather than clarity? - I don't think the world is getting darker. Maybe they looked up into the night. - With some of the things that do not show signs of peace in some parts of the world. - So look back and you will see that you are from Indonesia. 100 years ago, what was happening in your country? 200 years ago, what was happening in your country?

What's happening today, which one is better? Tell me then how dark it is? - I was referring to other parts of the world. - In other parts of the world too, in any part of the world, what happened 100 years ago and what is happening today, tell me which is better. - You're right. - Especially, I say women. Tell me which one is better. For the women of the world, never before in the history of humanity has it been as good as it is today, because the world depended heavily on the strength of man to do everything.

Now thanks to technology, everything that man's muscle can do is done by the machine. Now, men and women we can even talk about equality, okay? Otherwise, the conversation was absurd. Nobody was even interested in the talk because theMan's muscle was vital for anything to happen in this world. So the people who complain are complaining in some way; Even when they were in the caves, they were complaining that the cave is not big enough, they are not lit, there are no LEDs, there is no Wi-Fi: the same people. They will continue to complain because they do not want to see that they are the failure and not the world.

As a world, as humanity, as a civilization, we did really good things for every human being. Unfortunately, there are still a lot of people left out of this in terms of wars and famines, but that percentage is significantly lower than it was a few hundred years ago. - I agree. - It's just that if 100 years ago or 200 years ago, let's say here or in Indonesia, 100 people died, you'll be sitting here, "What a peaceful, wonderful day." But today morning his son is seen on the phone spilling blood somewhere, now he believes it is happening all over the world.

So don't misunderstand communication as creation. The creation is going well. Communication has increased to such an extent that somewhere a man dies, his blood is spilled in your living room, in your bedroom, in your dining room, even today there is something in the bathroom, there is also a television, so that blood is spilled. all over your house and you think it's spreading all over the world. No, even if a man dies, if you take gruesome photographs of it and put them on television you will suddenly feel that the world has become very violent, won't you? That is not true.

Yes, there are still a lot of problems to be solved, there is no doubt about it, but it is much better than ever. - Talk about technology. I mean, the anger hasn't gotten worse. - Hmm? - Anger. - Rage - Rage, hatred. I think they would have been the same ones we would have seen 100 or 200 years ago. But the scope of technology is a little different now because of the way innovation has occurred in a much more exponential way. Therefore, it may take the same amount of bad behavior as 100 or 200 years ago to be linked to some technology. - Empowered. - Correct.

How do we deal with this? - We have not yet reached a place where we can make every human being aware and free of these things. But we have come up with a poor substitute called law, so that you are full of anger but still cannot kill me because you know what the consequences are. We make sure you don't get away with your angry actions to a large extent, not everywhere, but largely better than ever, again. So is law enforcement a solution? No, it's not. It is a provisional agreement until we evolve, until we think it is worth focusing on human beings and evolving them into greater possibilities, we still do it.

Law enforcement is a stopgap because if it's not there, we'll never get there. At least now there is a semblance of peace. Your heart may be burning, but you will sit here in silence. This is civilization. You understand. Right now you are furious about what you want to do to me, but you will sit here peacefully, at least pretending to be peaceful, and you will also try to smile. This, then, is the training for civilization. Civilization is not consciousness, but creating a platform to seek something higher. We're still in that place creating a platform. There was a time when eastern societies created the platform and reached great heights.

But unfortunately those platforms were destroyed. In many ways, they were brought down by invasions with very aggressive belief systems. It was torn down, so we still need to build that platform and today, with it being such a digital world, it's a little bit easier to build those platforms because you can build a digital platform that people can use to elevate themselves. Raising human consciousness is the most important thing, but platforms are necessary as part of it. I am not a real estate person and for me, my real estate is in people's minds and hearts. But now, suddenly, we are building a series of centers around here, we are building a whole spiritual city.

This is a very large piece of land and we are building an entire city here. In India, we are working to have close to 100,000 people in the center. We are coming up with another center in Bengaluru, one more in Delhi and maybe we will do one in Europe. - Hopefully in Indonesia. - That's what they tell me: "You should come to Indonesia and build." You have 11,000 uninhabited islands... 17. Oh yes, uninhabited. - Uninhabited. 11,000 islands, that sounds very attractive. I want an island with a volcano. - I want to ask you about social networks. I am in the camp that believes that social networks have done more harm to humanity than health or at the rate that many of our children, or even adults, spend from nine to ten years old. hours a day on their mobile phones.

I wish they could spend the same number of hours listening to you here, if not more than 10 hours a day. I think that might be better for them. - No, they are listening to me on social networks. - Unfortunately, in part, not the full 10 hours. - It doesn't matter what you're seeing here, and these days a group appears. - I know. But in general, what is your opinion on the role of social networks in humanity? - So it is one of the greatest things that has happened to human beings. In the sense that since ancient times many great beings came, when they spoke only 10 people could hear them.

Today you can sit here and talk to the whole world. When was this possible? We are the first generation to experience this and we complain because we don't know how to use it. Well, this isn't just about social media. Take the advancement of science and the branch of technology. What has science done to us? It is one of the most wonderful explorations that human beings have entered into. But what is science doing to us, threatening the entire world? In any case, if something destroys, it is our scientific and technological capabilities that destroy this world, isn't it?

So is science bad? Is technology bad? Are social networks bad? No. That is why I say that as we become stronger we must equally focus on the evolution of individual human beings. We have an extruder system in education; everyone falls for a lot of something, and then you expect empowerment to be an advantage? No. Empowerment is a terrible thing if it is in the wrong hands. Right now, that's what's happening. Cutting-edge signals and technology are being used in the military. So at this rate now, they are talking about weapons that can only kill human beings, and even cameras will not be damaged.

So the best you can do: you drop a bomb, only humans die, the buildings are in place, the computers are in place, everything is in place so you can come and invade a nation or a city or whatever. to be. So why are we going into this? Because we have empowerment in the wrong hands, in unevolved hands, okay? If you give a monkey a gun, he will shoot almost anything. That's what we are now. So every empowerment we think about is bad because it is in the wrong hands. So instead of improving the quality of those who possess these instruments of empowerment, we are thinking that these instruments are bad, no.

Social media is a fantastic thing. Science and technology are one of the most fantastic things that have happened to humanity. But human beings are not evolved enough to handle such powerful tools and they are ruining themselves. It's time to evolve. If they could evolve beautifully and joyfully, that would be fantastic. But I believe that many human beings have written themselves into your space, where they can only evolve painfully. This is an unfortunate thing, but a lot of people have thrown themselves into that hole. That's why we say "Yoga rathova boga rathova"; Somehow through discipline or chaos, yoga or vogue, somehow we grow.

As long as you are growing, it doesn't matter if your path is painful. What I can do? I would like to see it with joy, but if the path grows only with pain, do it. How can I stop you from growing? - Is there any way to enrich the evolutionary process so that these weapons can be avoided or prevented from falling into the hands of the monkeys? - Many of these were monkeys, now all... I'm sorry. We have all kinds of monkeys that have evolved thanks to a little attention, that's all. Other ingredients have already been made by creation.

We just have the little engineer so that nothing blocks him, that's all. What blocks human evolution? One thing is easy to draw conclusions. We call these conclusions my personality, myself, my natural self; is called. Or it's called family, it's called society, it's called civilization, it's called religion, it's called philosophy, it's called ideology, you call it whatever you want once you enshrine the conclusions. This is the advantage. You will suddenly have new confidence, but you will not evolve. That is why they said: "Man ate the fruit of knowledge and fell." I want to try to follow up on this.

You know, in the old days until now, humanity has been seeking salvation, and recently it has been seeking inclusion. Now, there's a sense that tribalism is on the rise, which means let me worry about my own zip code, don't let me worry about the next zip code. Is that good or bad? From salvation to inclusion there is a terrible fall because all those people, whether happy or miserable, are breathing, aren't they? - Yes. - If you have to breathe and live or if you don't breathe you will die, then you know. It's not encouragement and inclusion, everything here includes you, otherwise you wouldn't be alive.

What you eat for your digestion, isn't that our inclusion? The world has considered you part of itself; otherwise, you will not exist here even for a moment. So the inclusion is that they want someone to tell them every two hours, "I love you, I love you." Well? That's the psychological malaise that your entire existence has become such that someone's emotions or someone's perceived intentions, so today your spouse can simply train Alexa to tell you every hour: " Oh Gita, I love you." We can repeat every hour. If you want it every five minutes, we can do that too.

We can program her phone to just call you and say nice nonsense and sweet things over the phone. On the other hand there is no one, it doesn't matter, you just like to hear it, right? So I'm saying that this feeling of wanting to be included in a club, or a small group of people, or the local gossip group or whatever, is a depravity that is setting in because we are empowered with things we don't know how to do. drive. It's like if you give a whole car to a child, he's going to kill someone or himself.

Not because he is evil, simply because he doesn't know what he can do. That is the case for human beings right now, so they seek inclusion to have some sense of security. Salvation means that you do not seek security, you seek dissolution because you understand that the nature of your life is essentially built on the foundation of mortality. You have come with a limited amount of time and energy, and if you are aware of it, while you are sitting here your life passes by. If you are aware of it, seeking realization or salvation or whatever you call it, or Mukti or Moksha as we call it in the East, would be a natural process because somewhere in your mind you have become immortal.

You think you're going to be here. These five people sitting here are very necessary right now. Without them you cannot exist. Someone has to tell you "I love you" every 3 minutes. Otherwise you will feel lost because you are not seeing your life in the right context. The context of life is this: from the day you are born, time runs. So should I sit here and worry about my death? Who talks about worrying about something? If you know you have limited time and energy, you definitely organize your life much smarter than the way people do it now;

Doing all kinds of nonsense, which means nothing to them as I said before. Well, if Jesus comes and says "Come and follow me," your banker says like this, you go there, not here. So when I say Jesus, I don't mean a man or a religion. I'm saying something that you consider super significant. Even if that comes, you can't change the course of your life, it means you are ruined. You walk over here thinking "This is it!" But if you saw something truly significant you should be able to change the course of your life. If you can't do that, you're already ruined.

You don't have to wait for the result. - Last question about technology before moving on to the other topics. Artificial Intelligence, does it worry you? - Why would it be? Three times of pandemic they kept inviting me to all these Artificial Intelligence conferences. Then I was at the SPIFF (St. Petersburg International Film Festival), in St. Petersburg. - Good. And everyone asks me about Artificial Intelligence. I said, "Why are you asking me about Artificial Intelligence? I am a naturally intelligent person, not artificial." Because? They are all academics. Sorry, I'm not saying this with anyone... They were all academics.

Everyone says, "If this happens, we'll all lose our jobs." I said, "Isn't that a good thing?" Isn't it good that there are no teachers in the world? Because the best thing that can happen to the world is that there is noteachers. No teachers needed what does it mean? That means that human beings are intelligent enough to know and learn on their own. Isn't that the coolest thing that's ever happened? - Ignorance about knowledge; Start from scratch and learn. I was telling you this: I remember in the 70s, the port of Mumbai was called Mazagon docks. I don't know if it's still called that.

The ships were then unloaded manually by men carrying sacks. Although they were very strong unions of these "coolies", they were called "coolies", they had their own license plates, registration number, without that you could not enter the port. And there's a lot of politics and a little mafia working around that and all that. So, when they wanted to build the first porch. In the port, that is the first porch. Great strike; All the coolies went on strike: "What are we supposed to do when the portico comes?" In those days, a ship of between 150 and less than 200,000 tons took between 26 and 28 days to unload.

And they were happy to do it that way because they got so much labor. When the gantry was fixed, today, the gantries that we have even in India and Singapore, anywhere else, can unload a quarter of a million ton ship in less than 24 hours. So at that time, everyone went on strike and fought because this gantry can't be raised, because it will take away our livelihood, so essentially what they were saying is that this machine will make our muscles redundant. Isn't what happened good? I ask. Hasn't that happened at all levels of our lives? So if you have a water carrier who brings water from the river to your house every day, and suddenly you have a pipe and a faucet, he will resist because: "What's wrong with my job?" That's why now teachers and academics are asking: "What's happening to our jobs?" Because a phone can teach physics, chemistry, mathematics, whatever you want.

And it has many more gigabytes of memory than a human being can probably have. That's why they ask themselves: "How will we continue with our professions?" But I think the world should get to a place where, to govern it, the material requirements are food, necessities and infrastructure. No human being should be involved. Everything should be done by machines. That is when there is a good space for awareness to arise, so that we do not have daily worries. When this happens, those who are ignorant and arrogant (because ignorance and arrogance are not two different things) ignorance breeds arrogance.

They will start drinking, taking drugs, overeating and all that, but there is a great deal of human intelligence that will ask, "What is this life all about?" Some will go towards suicide, the rest towards enlightenment. So, cultivating society for a time like that. When I say cultivating society for such a time, I don't mean the future, not even now. How much physical activity did you do 100 years ago to survive. Nowadays, what you do has been reduced to 10% or less physically, hasn't it? By machines and technology. So how much mindless thinking are you doing to understand one thing and do one thing?

If the machine does it, isn't it a great blessing? So I'm all for any kind of intelligence because that's how I see it. I know that some religions say that "God is love." I do not know about that. I know that human beings can be loving if they are willing. The dogs are very affectionate. And then God loves or not, I'm not an authority on that, I don't want to say anything. Someone says: "God is compassion." Well, is your job at Stanford based on your competence or your compassion? I'm just asking. - I have no authority to answer. - I'm saying, would you like to get it out of competition or compassion? - First. - Yes.

So, compassion only makes sense if you have fallen. If you are depressed for any reason, physically, mentally, in any way; If I get close it is very valuable; My hand can suddenly seem like the hand of God to you when you have fallen, can't it? But when you're standing on your two feet, you want acceptance, you don't want compassion, right? So people say "God is compassion" because they are in a very desperate state. People say "God is love," because they don't have any love in their hearts. All these things that are human qualities have been exported to heaven.

If you say "Peace", people say "Divine Peace", if you say "Bliss", people say "Divine Bliss". No, these are all human capabilities. The miserable people of the planet have exported it. And now to import you have to pay from there. So if this is such a well thought out company, I will appreciate their entrepreneurial spirit. But it is not good for humanity. So what I'm saying is that if all the things that machines can do are done by machines, anything, what would human intelligence do? Naturally, he would seek salvation. Well, unfortunately some suicides can happen. Should not.

That is why we need to cultivate society, guide it. There is a way for a human being to aspire to something greater than survival; something greater than physiological and psychological processes is available; If society is not cured in this way, then they will give themselves over to drink, drugs, alcohol and suicide; These things will come because we have not cultivated society. Right now, that's what's happening in rich societies: young people do these things because no one has educated them to have higher possibilities. The only thing that has been done is sell tickets to heaven. Young people do not want to go to heaven;

If you say you want to go to heaven, they'll ask, "Is there free Wi-Fi there?" They are not interested in the ancient promises that were made about heaven; They want life here, so that's a very good thing. It may seem like short-termism, but it is a very good thing because I think one of the biggest crimes we have committed in the world is telling people that there is a better place than this. This is a crime against creation. There is no better place than this, wherever you are. You may be in a desert, but still, I tell you, there is no better place than this for you.

You should make this a wonderful space to live in. It's very important. I haven't seen all of Indonesia, at least Bali; In Bali, what we have seen is cult; It is cultivated for Mukti. India was very much like that, but today we are trying to be more American than American. We are trying very hard. So to cultivate a society, this is the work we are doing; For cultural society, it is not about preaching a religion or teaching scriptures or some ideology or belief system. It is about cultivating a human being and, if one is willing, there are possibilities beyond physical and mental pleasures and comforts. - I want to move on to what you have been busy with recently.

You have been riding a motorcycle all over the world and have excited many people; Save the ground. Tell us. - They got excited because they thought it was killing me. - But tell the world what your mission is, at least the Indonesians and Southeast Asians, and what you have been doing. - Well, one of your stars was very much part of the Save Soil Movement. What was her name? -Raline Shah. Raline Shah has been participating in Save Soil. She has been very supportive and she also came all the way to Dubai to accompany me a short distance.

But for a beautiful young woman like that, it was too difficult. - Did you comply with the speed limits? - Speed ​​limits in Dubai are good; 100 miles per hour, so that's a hundred miles. Alright. But because in some places I was going with the security, and the security was enthusiastic, they drove at 240 or 245 kilometers per hour. So I was happy. Regarding Save Soil: I've been talking about soil for over 30 years. I have spoken with ordinary people, I have spoken with thousands of farmers, I have spoken with bureaucrats from various Ministries; Ministries of Agriculture, Ministries of the Environment; various ministers in many countries, some of the heads of state.

Everyone says, "This is fantastic," "This is very important," "This needs to be done." And that night they will use it as a pillow to sleep with all the talk of Saving the Soil. So I've been seeing this; We have not only been observing; We have been manifesting it on the ground, we have been converting farmers from aggressive chemical-based agriculture to a very soil-friendly and economically much more lucrative way of doing things. Most of the farmers who have switched to this form of agriculture with us (more than 132,000 farmers) have switched to regenerative agriculture in South India alone.

Their income has increased by 300 to 800 percent. - In what kind of duration and for how long? - In a matter of 7 to 8 years. - Oh my God. Now we have 23 agricultural producer organizations. 130,000 farmers is a pretty big number, but it's still a drop in the bucket. Then I saw that we can do any number of projects, but the important thing is that global policy has to change because microbial life is not segmented, it is a global phenomenon. Unless this happens worldwide, we are heading towards soil extinction. That is where we are headed because the soil is the largest living system, not only on this planet, but in the known universe.

It is the largest living system with billions of life forms. If you take a handful of soil, there are between 8 and 10 billion organisms, between 50 and 75,000 species in a handful. That's how rich it is, but we have been systematically starving them. When I say starve them, here you see all this leaf that has fallen, at this moment it will stay here, and in a month there will be snow. After the snowfall, in spring, if you look here there won't be a single leaf. Everything would turn into dirt. So here the organic content could be above 50 to 55 percent, but the minimum organic content that is necessary to call soilless soil, according to UN agencies, is a minimum movement of three percent;

Three to six percent is good. But not a single nation, not even a single nation, averages three percent. The highest found is in Northern Europe, which is 1.48%, Southern Europe is 1.1%, the average across the entire African continent is 0.3%, the United States is 1.25% and India is 0.68%. Below one percent is considered desertification. In the last 25 years, we have lost 10% of the Earth's surface to deserts. - Wow! - 10% in 25 years And that could increase significantly in the next 10 to 15 years because I think this is something that is generally not addressed, that is, if temperatures increase by one degree, the wind speed on the planet in general should decrease. a minimum of 20 to 30 kilometers per hour.

If it rises 2 degrees, it will rise 35 to 40 kilometers per hour. So if normal wind is blowing, let's say... There are many places where in certain seasons, including South India, the pre-monsoon winds will blow between 70 and sometimes up to 100 kilometers per hour, for a month or two. . Almost in much of the world it is like this. If it reaches a speed of 225 or 140 kilometers per hour, the amount of earth it will move will be enormous. In the United States, there was something called the Dust Bowl in the '30s. All the soil, or a big part of the soil, millions of tons of soil from the prairies went and landed in New York City.

They thought it landed in New York City because the building stopped for a while and tons of fatalities popped up in New York City. But it was never possible to calculate how much ended up in the ocean. Topsoil, which takes 600 to 800 years to create one inch of topsoil, but disappears as wind speeds increase; It will completely surprise you, especially on islands like yours without thin stripes. The whole island could be in the ocean in a matter of 50 years if you don't... - Or less. - I mean if you don't take care of the vegetation. I heard that in Indonesia from 87% it has reached 42% or 43% forest cover.

If the forest cover is not recovered, many things may disappear because it is already an area of ​​strong winds, cyclones and things like that. A cyclone can empty the entire island. At the moment, southern Europe is already facing this, some parts of Romania are understood because the Kalahari and Sahara sand are flying towards southern Europe. It's not just the people who come, but the arena itself has arrived; immigration. You can't stop it. You can stop people by pointing guns at them, but the sand will come. So, in countries like Romania, Slovakia and even as far as Azerbaijan, through Turkey, these sands are arriving.

But if the wind picks up another 25 to 30 kilometers, your city could be covered in sand overnight. It's possible. So there's a lot to it. I'm not here to give an apocalyptic picture. - I feel like I'm sitting in a science class. - I'm sorry. - It is fascinating. - So, I'm not here to paint the picture of the end of the world. The reason I'm interested in this is because if we act now as a generation, we can easily change this in the next 10 to 12 years. For that we need a government policy, otherwise large-scale actions will not be carried out.

And sustained action requires government policy. Fortunately for me, the reason I took this bike from London to South India: 30,000 kilometers in 100 days. I did 691 eventsalong the way, an average of almost seven events per day. - How long do you drive daily? - 18 - 20 hours, some days 24 hours until night. - Oh my God. And how many of you were there? - Just me. The individual motorcycles support the vehicles that are there. Our radio equipment was there. That's why they captured a lot of things and there were support teams, media teams and so on. But otherwise just a motorcyclist.

The idea was a solitary motorcycle because I've been talking about it for over 30 years, people have been sleeping on it. I saw that unless I do something dramatic enough, people won't wake up. So once they saw it, they initially thought it would be a fun trip, traveling somewhere in one city and then maybe flying to the next city or something. When they saw every mile I'm riding myself, no matter the weather; It's raining, it's snowing, there are dust storms in Arabia, I'm still riding; Then they saw oh, I'm serious about killing myself. Then all these millions of people woke up. - Billions, I've heard. - Billions have been reached.

I'm saying that millions of people woke up and everyone multiplied the message. So the sleeping volunteer force just woke up and made sure it reaches the world. Because of that, now 81 nations are in the process of formulating policies for their territory, from China to Europe. The United States is just getting started, India, of course, is already on the way, and Indonesia is also very much in line. The thing is, we want to make sure it's not a short-term hype and then crash. We want to make sure the floor is in conversation, but that's already happened. See, last year, in January, when COP26 met in Glasgow, when the whole world came together to solve climate change and global warming and these kinds of issues or to address these issues.

The ground wasn't really mentioned. But this is happening. We are official observers of this event. COP27 is now taking place in Egypt, so our teams are there and participating, and the ground has become an important part. So the conversation and direction has definitely changed with the Save the Soil Movement. But we must continue like this because in democracies today's leadership may not be present tomorrow. - Today's elections? - Yes. - I say it on the right day. So they may not be there tomorrow unless it is in the public consciousness and the public conversation is an important part, and only then.

And administrators can really act. It's not fair to expect a Democratic leader, a democratically elected leader, to do something that people show no concern about. People have to show that concern. So we still maintain the campaign. Now it will reach a certain tone; December 5 is "World Soil Day". So around that we will again have a wave of activity around the world so that everyone feels comfortable. I especially want lawmakers to feel comfortable knowing that this is an important issue, otherwise they won't be able to address it. The support of the people is needed. So that's what we're trying to achieve: 81 nations are moving, including the European Union which is in the consultative process right now.

China has started soil survey after a 40-year pause. India has already invested $2.4 billion in the land over the last year, and this year they will... There is a budget in February, let's see how it goes. Many countries have begun to move in this direction. Commonwealth Nations: 54 nations are considering formulating policies. Not all nations may be able to move forward at the same pace due to their economic and other conditions, but it doesn't matter, we must begin the journey, we must begin to move towards a solution. In 8 to 12 years, worldwide, a minimum of 3% can be reached quite easily, if there is an incentive-based policy.

Politics has three fronts; One is government incentives to encourage farmers to do so. Secondly, we must simplify the carbon credit so that it is available to the farmer. Right now it is very difficult for the farmer to get it. Third, there must be market recognition. When I say market recognition, nowadays if you go to any store or at least any of the fancier stores, they will show you an apple in your face and say "This is organic." Then you should ask them: "Please give me an inorganic apple." They don't have one. So organic is just marketing jargon. - I see - What it contains, no one can measure.

Look, taking this apple to the lab and measuring how much insecticide or fertilizer is actually present in it is a very complex process, you can't do it. It's a research project, okay? - I understand. - Now we're looking at focusing on soil organic matter, which can be easily measured in 10 minutes right here on the measurable soil. So if an apple comes, we want it to be definitive that this apple comes from 3% organic soil, this apple comes from 6% organic soil, this apple comes from 10% organic soil. . We already have enough science in our hands and data in our hands.

If it is 3%; What is the amount of micronutrients present? What is the type of health benefit you will have? What is preventive health? What is the reduction in burden on the health care system in a given country? What is the benefit for the state? We have all this data. If it is 6% what it is, if it is 10% what it is. These data are not difficult. The only thing is what is 3% and what is 6%. A 6% apple may cost maybe 5% or 10% more, but instead of eating six apples, you can eat one apple and have the same food because studies were done on this in the 1920s.

In the 1920s, what food was obtained from oranges in Florida or California, today if you have to get the same food, you have to eat eight oranges. When was the last time you had eight oranges for breakfast? - You know, every time we go to Whole Foods, my wife loves organic. We assume that if it's organic, it's good. It's not necessarily good. - No. It has simply become a marketing word. - It's a trick. - I wouldn't say it's a trick, that would be strong. I would say it is not defined. - Well. Would you say it's misrepresented? - You see, probably in the broader agricultural sphere, this is a stage of development to move away from being totally chemical.

Someone says something organic which means they used a little less fertilizer, less whatever. It is a state of development, but that is not enough. We need to move to another stage in which it is grown on rich lands. That's what's important. Simply that it is organic is not important, it must be grown in rich soils. If the fruit or the vegetable has to be rich and if this body has to be rich, one thing that will happen from this is... Look, let's say the entire planet becomes something like 6% to a 8% of agricultural land with organic content, if we get all human beings to naturally consume at least 30% less food than they are consuming right now.

So it's not just about solving the problems of world hunger, the important thing is in your system. Today you came by car, but when I ride a motorcycle I always have 100 octane because with the same liter of gasoline it produces more power. You can travel with 90 or 92 octane but it will go like this. The same goes for this: if you eat foods that come from very rich soils, the volume of food you need will decrease. What this means is the amount of process. You see, the digestive process is a very exhausting process for the body. It's very exhausting.

The faster and easier you can digest your food, the less you can digest and the more energy you can release is a huge advantage. One of the reasons most humans sleep 8 to 10 hours a day is simply because of the type of food they eat. If we ate foods that come from rich lands, less food would cover our needs. This would deploy human capabilities and human genius in ways that cannot be imagined. That is why in yogic culture the first thing is to eat sparingly. Now, everyone talks about... just 10 years ago everyone said that you had to eat every two or three hours.

The same people now talk about intermittent fasting. Well, your opinions are changing like this, does it mean to say that the human body has evolved significantly in the last 10 years? We have been saying the same thing for ten thousand years. But, unfortunately, everything has to be tested in the laboratory. - Let someone try to be different every time. - No, all these things have economic possibilities. If I say that an apple a day will keep you from going to the doctor or whatever, then you start eating apples. If I'm an apple grower, that's fine. Otherwise, I will say that one strawberry a day will do; one egg a day will suffice;

It depends on who you are, what your business is. - Are you more optimistic now than you would have been 5 years ago, 30 years ago, about achieving what you mentioned in 8 to 12 years: 3%, hopefully much more than 3% wealth? - Will the world move in that direction? Definitely. It is a rhythm that worries us. So if there are no strange political and military situations, I think we can achieve it. But the moment these situations arise, there will be a certain setback. But you could also see another way in which military and war situations and political situations create a certain level of insecurity.

This may also happen more quickly in many other parts of the world. Look, right now the people who depend on 40% of the world's wheat come from Russia and Ukraine. So what it means is that in large parts of the world there are people; The food does not grow. Food should always grow where the people are. An exotic fruit you can bring from New Zealand and eat your kiwi. But the general diet must grow where the people are, at least within a minimum radius. Right now your food comes from somewhere else on another continent. This is not the way to structure human societies because it will lead to enslaving societies, it will lead to all kinds of exploitation, it can very easily end in terrible famine and mass deaths.

Food should grow where the people are; At least the basic food. Now, am I trying to destroy the international food industry? No. But the basic foods we need must grow where the people are. If we don't take care of that, we will pay a high price. It can happen at any time, but according to my estimates it can happen very soon because 3.5 billion people are expected to suffer from water stress by 2032. That means drinking water daily will be a challenge for 3.5 billion people. If let's say that 5% or 10% of the population of your city, wherever you live, has not had water to drink today.

Do you think you are safe on the street? Do you think your home is safe? Will it be a place to live? Do you think your women and children are safe now? I'm saying this will dismantle human civilizations once again. Once there is a shortage of food and water, these thousand years of civilization will be broken in two days. So we must understand that, if we want to build human civilization, there must always be enough food and water, regardless of whether there is or is not, clean air, pure water and reasonably nutritious food. If you want to build human consciousness, this is even more important.

I think this message needs to be amplified, not just among policymakers or politicians, but also among their children. - We are always trying to fix the children. I don't really see life like that. I think one person who needs minimal repair on the planet is a child. But somehow everyone thinks it needs maximum repair. - No, it's so they can talk to their parents if it doesn't reach their parents' ears. - They are deaf or something else, only children should speak. - Sometimes parents listen to their children more. - No, unfortunately, that's where we're looking. No, that is not the way.

Tell me who should tell who. Should adults tell children or should children tell others? What a silly, ignorant life you must be living if your 5 or 8 year old comes to you and says, "You're destroying the planet, do something about it." How bad should you be? I would be embarrassed if my son told me that. It's me who says that. - I know. - And I don't know, everywhere people say: "Sadhguru, let's go to the schools. Let's make the children..." I said: "Leave the children alone until they are 15 years old." Let them grow up without a damn worry in the world.

Let them play, let them grow, let them learn, let them do whatever. Don't burden them with your silly problems. Problems that you created, if you have any dignity before your children grow up, let's fix it. They shouldn't even know something was wrong and we fixed it. That's a good father, right? - Absolutely. We need to do everything we can to help amplify this message. I think it's a very powerful message. - More necessary. If you don't we will regret it. - I want to move on to a different topic. The Greeks had a term called stoicism.

You have a term called yoga. Explain the difference between stoicism and yoga. See, to be stoic is to maintain asome distance from what is happening around you and act a little in peace. If they are killing you right now, I will keep a little distance and remain peaceful. If this is happening to me, how do I keep my distance? If you can be stoic about your own death and torture and whatever else happens; fantastic. I am stoic about other people's suffering. This is not good, you have only deadened your humanity. Yoga is not about that. The word yoga means union.

When I say union, say right now, this is you, this is me. That means: that is your body, this is my body, that is your mind, this is my mind. There is no way these two things are going to be one. But suppose if I die tomorrow they will bury me somewhere here. And you will die after 100 years, suppose you are buried here. Your body and mine will have no problem becoming the same soil, right? Even now it's essentially the same material, but in our minds we have these silly ideas, okay? So I say that you are already in union with everything;

You are breathing, you are one with the atmosphere, aren't you? You are eating food from this land, you are one with the land, you are one with everything. But it is not there in your experience. The method of bringing that into your experience, the method of consciously erasing the illusory limits of your individuality, is yoga. This is not a philosophy, this is not an attitude you adopt towards others, this is coming to experience reality as it is. When I say reality as it is, is it true that your existence here is not individualistic? It's just that your ideas, your thoughts and your emotions are individualistic.

You cannot exist here for even a moment without everything else. This is what we are talking about. Save Soil means that without those microorganisms, which are a fundamental life for your existence, you cannot exist without them. You may not be able to see them, but without them you cannot exist. What you exhale now the trees inhale, what the trees exhale you now inhale. It's already one. Half your lungs are hanging there, but you don't feel it. But if you experienced it, after that I have to tell you "Don't cut down this tree" "Don't harm this sentence by preserving "environmental nonsense".

Do you need any teaching? If you experience it as part of yourself, you will do your best, right? ?So this is yoga; it is not an attitude, it is not a philosophy; it is simply erasing the limits that we have created to survive and know life as it is. We are not stoic here, we are very involved but still. we're intact. I'm not totally involved, but still intact. It's been an amazing conversation. I drove here to the middle part of Tennessee. Why am I here? Most of our business was in the northern part of the United States. ; in Michigan, Illinois, Ohio.

This is where our business was. When we thought about establishing a center, I looked around and drove around the country a little bit. - Motorcycle? - No, at that time I was driving. 30 years, never ridden a motorcycle, just now I started driving again. So when I saw the country and several other things, also in this region I experienced something; somewhere close to here. And then I started researching geography and all that. This geography is very interesting and as you can see it is fantastic. If you had come here two weeks ago, this land would be painted in multiple colors, the fall colors were absolutely spectacular.

As for the terrain, it's perfect for our kind of thing. And another reason is that we wanted a large area of ​​land because we're not one of those popular pop spirituality people, that comes out in a city, aimed at city people and whatever. Here, if you want to get serious about something, is when this is relevant to you. If you want to do a pop type of spiritual process, there are many places. We can also offer something digitally here, there you do something simple and that's it. But if you're chasing something, then you need an atmosphere, it can't be in the middle of everything that's going on.

That's why the distance from the cities was ideal for us. We are only an hour and a half from Nashville, a little over two hours from Atlanta, 45 to 50 minutes from Chattanooga. It is ideally located that way, the terrain is absolutely beautiful. And from where we are, 60% of the US population is 12 hours away by car, that was a big factor for me because even today when there are shows, people just drive through the night and come here. and happens again at night, except in California. , Seattle and the West Coast. Except that, everything else is a reasonable 12 hour drive away.

From New York to all these places. So that's an important part. Also, there is some history in this place, which I also wanted to fix somehow. Then we are going to significantly consecrate this part of the earth so that everything changes in it. - Is there a special energy? - Not that way. This is in a way, we are very close to the beginning of what is historically called the Trail of Tears. I thought there was too much pain, it is necessary... - Let me ask you the last question, Sadhguru. - It sounds like a threat to me. - No.

This is a student asking a teacher. What does happiness mean to you? And I guess there is a subset of this question. Does happiness mean something different to everyone? Is there a universal definition of happiness? If you become nice to your body, we call this health. If this becomes very pleasurable we call it pleasure. If your mind becomes pleasant, we call it peace. If it becomes very pleasant, we can say that you are happy or joyful or something like that. If your emotions become pleasant, we call this love. If it becomes very pleasant, we call it compassion.

If your own life energies become pleasant, we call this happiness. If it becomes very pleasurable, we call it ecstasy. If our environment becomes pleasant, we call this success. Just to make the environment pleasant we need to seek the help of other people, other forces, various skills to bring together; all this to create pleasure in our environment. But making this body, this mind, this emotion and this energy pleasurable is 100% your business, isn't it? So instead of looking for a definition of happiness, let me put it this way: Do you want your life experience to be pleasant or unpleasant? - Pleasant. - Pleasant.

How nice? As much as possible or will 50% be enough? - Nice enough. It doesn't have to be the largest amount possible. - How much more is possible? - Yes - That means you are thinking about how to be ecstatic, but now you are settling for happiness because you have given up ecstasy. Many people have given up on happiness and seek peace. Many people have given up on peace and will only rest in peace. They are thinking: "If I live without problems, that is enough." Many people have given up on that, they inevitably find themselves in trouble.

If the problem is minimal, it is enough. I'm saying these are all things you configure. I ask you as a child, as a young person or even as an adult. Whatever the most beautiful moment of your life is in terms of your experience, not in terms of arrangements, not in terms of family, career, this or that. Within you, what was the most fantastic moment of your experience? That moment, whatever it is, you are capable of living so much experience. So you should at least establish it as a reference point. How happy you were at a given moment in your entire life, what was the highest moment, that should be the starting point because you are capable of that.

So in your life, if you don't do what you can't do; no problem. But if you don't do what you can do, it's a disastrous life. This is the disaster, the problem of most human beings, even what they can do, they do not do. What is the happiest, most loving, most ecstatic moment of my life? That should at least be the basis, right? Because you are capable of that. I'm not asking you to do something you're not capable of. What you're capable of if you don't make it somewhere, you haven't even begun to appreciate the life that you are, haven't you?

You see, the grasshopper the moment its tiny stomach is full, it is full. He is singing, doing everything he wants. Your stomach is full, but no. This is a unique human problem in South India even today. Maybe in Indonesia there are probably also in local languages. If you meet someone in the villages, even today, the only question they will ask you is "Have you eaten?" No one will ask you "How are you?" There is no such thing. Because if you have eaten, what are the problems you may have? It is understood that the other problems have been created by oneself.

Suppose I don't have food to eat, it's a situational problem, I'll have to solve it. But my stomach is full and I'm not happy. You should look at the world, you should look at how to fix this one, shouldn't you? So don't set the percentage of liking you want. Whatever the highest level of pleasure you experience, that should become the starting point, and we'll see if bigger things are possible. Otherwise, if you think this is not a good place to live, you will want to go there. All of you who think you're going somewhere much better than here, why are you waiting?

If they are so sure that there is a better place up there, and everything there is better than this place, what are you waiting for? At least you should arrive before me because I can get the best accommodation. No, I am saying that we are trying to fill the void of our ignorance with all kinds of beliefs so that we feel safe living here because you have not been aware of your mortal nature. One time when your friend dies, you look at the funeral and say, "Oh my God, that could be me." So you are terrified of how to cross this bridge.

It doesn't matter, anyway, I'm going to that place that's better than this. If that place is better than this, why are you wasting your time here? You should go. No, that's not how it works, is it? So I'm not trying to denigrate anything. All I'm saying is that human intelligence should be used to penetrate the nature of creation and the source of creation, not draw conclusions from someone else. So we always look for an authority in a scripture, a preacher, a guru, or someone else who has said that, or someone who we believe is God. You are looking for an authority because you have no idea what the truth is.

If you make authority the truth, many ugly things will happen. The truth is the only authority. This is yoga; No conclusions, just search and develop. You can only genuinely search when you realize that you really don't know. So, if you realize that "I don't know" and maintain that awareness, the search, the longing and the possibility of knowing are not far away. It's right here. But we are closing the doors on ourselves and demanding darkness. So changing this is the goal of the conscious planet, and we are empowered like never before, going back to your first question.

This is the first time we can sit here and talk to the whole world. When will we have that opportunity? If we don't create the world we want to live in, let's at least start moving in that direction. We choose that we do not have enough love in our hearts for the world around us, for the life around us. So this is the best time in that sense. Otherwise, how could you talk to everyone? Today, our average video reach annually is around 2.5 billion. Nothing spiritual has ever been like this before. I'm saying that 8, 10, 12 year olds listen on their own.

Not forced by anyone. It never happens. When I was 12 no one could force me to listen to anything spiritual. It was simply impossible. But today they are searching and listening. So you must understand that the more confusion you see in the human mind, the more searching will occur. A confusion is much better than stupid conclusions. Because confusion at least brings some humility to human beings. Conclusions bring arrogance to a human being. - Wow. I do not know what else to ask. Thank you very much Sadhguru. It was a fascinating conversation with Sadhguru, the founder of Isha Foundation.

Thank you so much.