"I don't think Buhari is in charge" - Wole Soyinka | ARISE News Exclusive Interview

and shortly we will join the nobel laureate professor wales inca, but before that, some stories that the ogun state police command on wednesday lied in a trending online video suggesting that the kemta abiokuta estate, home of the nobel laureate professor galesho inca, had been besieged by fulani herzmann rumors of invasion had caused panic in the state capital on wednesday joining us now from freedom park in lagos is the nobel laureate professor gales inca good to have you professor, you're welcome glad to be back yes we understand you were meant to have a press conference but we're happy to be ahead of the curve so to speak it's good to have you back yes so I'd like to hear it from the horse's mouth , since we have it.

Can you clarify for us what exactly happened there? to be several uh you say versions of what happened we heard that the cows went directly into your enclosure or we heard that the cows got lost and then the other group the herds directly to your enclosure we heard that you were attacked um so help us clarify what really it happened on tuesday yes, I have been reading some of these versions, some are quite funny, others are quite distressing, especially the version that the police are selling, I

think

the police need to be educated that even when people talk about the invasion of your home, We are not just talking about the physical building, we are talking about the home as a home that includes the land.

No, there are no cattle. People attacked me. It is a fact. I'm here physically and I didn't suffer any injuries. Never. That never happened. my house was invaded by qatar why should the police go to such lengths as to suggest that i have nothing better to do than fetch cattle on the road what is my business with cattle on the road? We evicted them from my property along with my land before they began the eviction process, I was leaving so I joined them in my vehicle. My gardeners are used to the drill because it's not the first time it's happened, so I joined them in my vehicle to remove the livestock. my premises after that now after that once they were off my property that's when I arrested the cows why did I arrest them leaving my property right outside my door?

I made a sign to the shepherd, the man of the land, I told him to come here, haven't I given him? I gave you a warning before he turned around and then kept walking so I walked towards him and the next time he jumped into the bush and disappeared and his other assistant had also disappeared so we were left with a cattle and that's how I locked him up. On the way I called one of my gardeners to stay there with me and we kept the kettle there, cut it there while I sent the police to come and take care of it.

That is a very simple and common sense procedure, why should the police find it necessary to suggest that these people these cattle and the herders were never on my property I mean what kind of dance is it is a distraction from more serious issues I hate being there personally At the heart of issues like this I am more worried about what is happening to the students in who are being hunted by kidnapped herdsmen and more worried about my people in Ogun State who are being massacred even as the governor is establishing a commission of inquiry, so please I want to beg the police not to make this a big deal.

Don't lie, then I don't need to come here and address anyone, okay, uh, professor, I deduced that the owner or the cattle, uh, and the most difficult one is a Yoruba man, uh, I wonder if you have done it, of course , you said that you had been instructed that. To never come onto your land, have you had a one-on-one conversation with the landowner to make sure this never happens again or even before that incident when you want them to never do that again? I'm so glad he mentioned it. This issue of the owner being Yoruba is very critical, in fact you will notice that he very rarely uses the word Fulani.

It is unfortunate that this particular type of crime has to be linked to any section of this ethnic community. It's something that doesn't belong to anyone. I am comfortable with this, but unfortunately the Metis, so their spokespersons were the ones who identified and claimed this crime. I know exactly what they did and they claimed this crime practically as their own. This murder of farmers, etc., etc., they did and that is why the entire nation did the same. owner, I had never met him before, but I arrested men on my property, he hurt men before sitting them on the ground, I took pictures of them and said I'm going to circulate this everywhere and every time they see you on this premises, something more serious. it will happen to you, so it's not the first time and I spoke to the ballet, the police were involved and I said let these people know, this is a green zone, this is my private house, they shouldn't come here and drive on a highway. cattle path to my property if it happens again there will be serious consequences okay then okay this I hate to interrupt your flow of thought uh professor share corporal we need to take a quick break I'll be right back to talk to you .

I'm a little bit happier to have you back here I'm watching Newsday here on the Rise

news

channel and we have from Freedom Park here in Lagos, Professor Wallace Schweinker, Nobel laureate, still with us. Thank you very much professor for staying with us before that break he was talking about. profiles of the Fulani tribe and the herdsmen and how we should disabuse this um, but let me link it to the ethnic nationalism uh that we seem to have right now, have we had it that bad? Is this a true reflection of Nigeria or is it used by leaders to divide the country and how can political leaders show leadership in the future, the first thing is to identify something we call criminality, in other words, cattle farming itself is not criminal, is when the rights of other people are invaded even to the point of displacing them. humiliate them, dehumanize them, rape their women and kill them, that's when it becomes a crime against humanity.

It must be treated very firmly, but even when addressing it we must always be careful to separate the wheat, the chaff, from the grain, from the junk. what I mean the green of the chat with which we all know that we all live, we all have full colleagues and friends and it is our responsibility to continue to emphasize that it is not all the people called Fulani who are guilty of these crimes, but the leaders The leadership Miyetti Allah, I have said again and again, is 90 responsible for the condition we find ourselves in. He shares that responsibility, of course, with the head of state, but when I leave and I will return a few years ago, when the leadership was. so boastful after hundreds of people were killed in the north by clearly identified herdsmen, to say that we totally own this place, we are on this border, there is no area, we just come here to get out, that's when the problem of the stereotypes and we have got to make leaders like that swallow take back their words, apologize to the nation, and even be subjected to some form of restitution to the entire nation, not the kind of twisted restitution, you know, the backwards restitution proposed by this uh guru who says I just read yesterday's report this hurts man this bandage should be compensated what kind of garbage is that no we are saying that those who offended this nation should start the process by apologizing and even offering some kind of restitution to persuade the rest of us that I want to return to the community of equal beings entitled to the same privileges responsible for their own lives, in fact, accept their responsibilities, accept responsibilities for their kind, obey the laws, the constitution , that's the only way to peace, yes, it's okay, professor, I just want to straddle. a bit between what my colleague just said, it would seem that what happened to him is evidence of how combustible the nation is right now, we had a group threatening that if anything had happened to him, president

buhari

would be the last president of nigeria. and in light of that and a recent

interview

you did, you suggested that we were on the verge of a civil war if the mata was not properly addressed, so in light of that and perhaps considering what Sheikh Guni has suggested, that it seems having fired don't you

think

there is room for a carrot and stick approach rather than a one shoe fits all?

We are in a carrot and stick situation; In other words, those who offend must be punished, they must be considered guilty of their activities. On the other hand, those who have been violated, those who have been offended, must be persuaded that they are reformed people, in other words, demonstrably, so don't just talk, you know, just say, "Oh, Yes, we are fine, now that certain crimes have been committed." It must be treated now. I have said this before and I wish to repeat it. Buhari does not appreciate the situation, he does not understand. I see no evidence that he understands how big the situation is.

I have said over and over again that I don't. I don't think I'm in

charge

because, in my opinion, it's not possible for a head of state, a commander in chief of the armed forces, to say he's presiding over a nation and things come to this. level, something is very wrong in the leadership within the country. leadership of this nation and that is where we, the civilians, must intervene, you must take over our situation, our own salvation, and this is one of the things in which we are committed and that is why it bothers me that it is turn it into an individualized polish, it's just another individual.

As another farmer, another student and I wanted people to understand this, what happened to me with this incident is typical of what is happening to millions of people across the country and we cannot stand by and say we depend on central health when it is obviously not going well, professor, of course, you and I know what happened recently and I understand that immediately after the beginning of the presidency he met with other governors of other states in this country and the health meeting, which would be said to have been quite beneficial and rewarding that is why the northern governors in the north have come out saying that they support the branch that open grazing cannot be sustained what is your opinion on that statement it is late but it is good better late than never this is what is common sensible approach livestock farming do you want to fix even my property which is being invaded if you say you want to do livestock farming is your property available? we will sit together negotiate the fence you are responsible if you allow your car to go and destroy other people but I can lend I can rent my life is a business you want to do it so come and talk to me so I congratulate the governors for finally waking up and admit these very simple and common sense approaches to modern livestock farming and I want to appeal also This is one of the things that can be done in the center that is simultaneously trying to resurrect all those wagons.

What are the wagons? You know, I grew up with cattle cars on the train. I grew up with trucks hauling cattle from north to south. From east to west, etcetera, we need to resurrect all those facilities, but in the meantime don't say that because the facilities have been allowed to go into decrepitude, therefore, you have to kill people to prove a point, but simultaneously, like I said, We also have to build the infrastructure to allow those who want to pursue this trade to be able to do so in a meaningful and practical way. That is the best we can do in the meantime, however, we have to raise awareness among the nation and this is what I am involved in.

On this occasion I will propose one or two measures to involve the entire nation as a kind of symbolic gesture of solidarity with all those who have lost their lives because this distorted this skewed approach to business and also to call our governments into the center of local states. The government and civic organizations will come together and create a permanent solution to this dilemma. Thank you so much. We certainly look forward to this announcement, but thank you for clarifying the events. Professor Wales in cardinal laureate. Thank my Lord.