Ricky Gervais & Russell Brand: God VS Atheism - Full Episode

Hello, I'm Russell Brand. This

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of Under the Skin from luminary media is free and fantastic. It has Ricky Gervais. Hook it. Ricky Gervais, one of the greatest comedy stars the world has ever known. I think it's safe to say who's up there with you. Chaplin. your Cleese is your Coogan, they are all British comedians whose name starts with C, that's what I'm interested in, you cook, your Hancock's

ricky

device, the outspoken presenter of the world's creator of extras, the office after life, the season 2 is on Netflix now and is it because of your promotion that it even appeared on our podcast?

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s of under the skin, let me tell you, it's worth it, as well as everyone else. fantastic content on that platform podcast by Carrillo mo de queer I know content by Lena Duncan get off then no one will force you to stay you are not a hostage I would say this is a fantastic episode of under the skin I am very proud This is a brilliant conversation with Ricky Gervais, it is a pleasure to talk to him, he, me and him while we discuss, we see the world somewhat differently, although we have many things in common, we talk about God.

I feel like ISM animals love the fantasy class. stuff you'll really enjoy if you want to get luminary, if this episode tells you that this is the kind of conversations you might be in, then you can get it for as low as $2.99. I've done it with other podcasters like on the platform like Lena Dunham and Kurama but also David Eagleman Neil deGrasse Tyson Fara Farkas de Brian Cox Yanni I mean, there's a brilliant intellectual conversation Naomi Klein I mean, it's like dr. Shefali last week, I mean, I really think they're valuable conversations, but this one with Ricky is especially good, as you can imagine from Ricky Gervais, and let me reiterate that After Life, which I've seen, is now on Netflix and it's fantastic.

Hi friend, it's so lovely to see you looking at yourself like an adult. I have become an adult. You didn't think you were sitting there on a sheet. That was a deciding factor. I said I wanted to adapt to Western customs just for an hour. I didn't even need that explained to me explicitly. I intuitively saw that perhaps it would not be wise to interview you on a sheet of paper and why it is 1:00 p.m. I mean, for me it's the best hour of Supes news and then a little nap, so that's what gobbled up the super half of 12 it was very hot and my mouth was postponed until 2 p.m.

So this is part of the hardships I've been through during this grueling story, even sitting and listening to Ricky, that kind of suffering, it's like they're in the Gulag Archipelago listening to some of that stuff, yeah, because I like it. I've been doing a podcast for years, so we set one up in the garage as a little podcast studio. You are an outlier, a pioneer and an extremist, in fact, just like Hancock's rebel. There is no doubt that you are in that lineage. There is no doubt that we should. Do this a little, should we do this a little?

If you officially start, I will start with a compliment to put you at ease. It's really lovely to interview you. You can say that you are in Safa Coburn too quickly and that anxiety has similar symptoms. Yes, charming. To have a proper interview with you, we have met several times. I've never been able to talk to you in depth, but like anyone, I've had my year as a comedian very much and I still like a lot about you. Things like, you know, maybe even just when you're doing Facebook Lives, but also like I'm still watching the office, a little bit after life watching the new series, which is what you're promoting right now, doing these podcasts and stuff. , and it's a A real pleasure to talk to you Ricky, thank you, same pleasure, thank you to me and I guess so, you are a guest, you are a guest and innocence is proportional to our BAFTA funds.

Endless masks. I have a curtain and everything, but this is it. this is my desk I'm at my desk the microphone this is the smallest room in the house because I thought the echo would because the other words of this is not this is not like the cribs where I hired them I was looking I was looking at her oh I remember , I remember a lot of them then, because I don't know what that guy is like. This is a wild boy. I guess it's some kind of writers guild or just in a minute I was auctioned off by Cherry and Di so generously it reminds me what a great person I am, it's nice to have a reminder of your own greatness, those with less abstract praise, good game alive near where you are from me, I like it, I saw a kind of like it and you.

After reading and, of course, and then, yes, yes, he said, obviously, it's lovely over there. Do you live near here? and we have a little place quite close to you, but my main, I mean, I'm mostly leafy in Hampstead, yeah, where people like. If I'm honest, you're not allowed. I was there briefly for a while. I lived on Garden o Road at what I might call the height of my decline. Yes, close to Flasks Walk and well, we used to visit this place. You already know him. we live we live in the center since then or at the university and explaining to Americans where Hampstead is is like I say, it's kind of bohemian and eclectic and it's the kind of great-great-grandchildren of artists and poets and I, new money.

I always feel like it was like The Beverly Hillbillies when I came to town and I think, I think I think with similar backgrounds where we moved, where he moved so he could live next door, he got close to the rich people, so I still feel that When you walk through the ivy there's a certain amount of disappointment on people's faces, yeah, it's amazing, actually, and they say it's very clear in your mood that you have that kind of background. I remember seeing Martin Freeman on something he once said you were the first person to admit that he had a sense of humor that made him laugh like people at school and I remember when he used to do things on the 11 o'clock show and you were talking like I remember in particular one time when I talked about the often told apocryphal story of someone who masturbates and then opens their eyes and has a cup of tea there and I guess this was probably 20 years ago.

I remember watching that thinking oh, that's funny, man, that's funny and I guess and you've already done it. How have you maintained and do you think you've maintained that kind of access to normality and that kind of fragile, spiky, working-class human being now that you're in a chandelier on the hill? Well, I think I have achieved that in many ways. and obviously my whole family still lives reading the fat young men of Wokingham, you know, and they're what's called a working class, they're all manual laborers or carers and then there's 50 of them. I've met them, so great nieces and nephews. what do you know and then there is that we you are always connected with your family you always feel at home with your family you know so I better do it I do it quite consciously I try to remember my roots because like the comedian and the observation I thought it would work I also think that because we are court jesters we have to be court jesters you have to have a low status we are in the mud with all the other peasants teas in the King not too much because we I don't want to be killed, but we have to maintain a been low because somehow I think I feel like I want to do it and I do it two ways and you do this too and one way I'm fighting behind the curtain.

I do what you want. I think it's great to be rich and famous. Well, this is what I said in front of the Queen. This is the first time I have had a private jet. They thought I was the cook so I tell them the horror stories where he was the idiot, I was the wrong person, I shouldn't have been there hmm, I tell them that and the other way to do it is I talk about things where they're better off than me, I'm talking about being fat, old, bald and gin, I mean I'm going to die soon and you have to do it, especially when people know how the best comedians earn now and I kind of accepted it and also make fun of it from them.

I like it. Did you know you were talking to my house and? wealth in an ironic way and they understand it too and I say, listen, this is luck. You know, I mean, listen. I don't think I deserve this, but I think people understand as long as you're honest. Would it be cool if I saw a millionaire comedian going both sides of that, like talking down to an audience, everything is either a whole story that one made or you know, they're all, they're already on stage, they're already cheap? it's like this or never and now they're telling the audience they're wrong again.

I do it ironically, but they understand it as a hair. I call them scum and they know they understand that I'm saying the opposite. um, but uh. It would be pretty stupid to see millionaire comedians going, so yesterday I was flying and I was on the tours on the bus, no, no, you know, but I usually go the other way like them. Normally, oh, I did it in humanity, it was a press thing, they always ask you, you know, rich artists, how much does a liter of milk cost, um, that's to show you what you're like and then I'm like, I don't know, I don't.

I checked, but the next time someone asked me, I said no. I don't know, maybe it's a big one, so I accept my privilege of comic effect. I think the first thing most of us know you couldn't be a clearer exemplification of the authenticity of The Office, whether it's the way it was filmed. in the way it was written: they are a kind of nice observation of normality and mundanity, said that way from the beginning, there is authenticity in your work with something more recent like the afterlife that I saw as indicated to me or the first couple.

Brilliant, you know it's perfect, someone told me you've got it looking. I saw a one and a half year old J. I mean, and I'm like, okay, I loved the first series. I think there are great people in it. I love it. Roshan, I love that woman, Joe, that's anyone. I think it's a really brilliant cast. I love her, who comes from Charlie Brooker's staff and she's also evil, obviously, you're cool and what do you do? You have the same level of authenticity and something like that. I don't know the frankness when you do something like that, and if so, where do you get this stuff about suicide and despair, it's because you think that the only thing that matters to me now, more and more every day, is that I wake up and see Bob.

This is this honest man, this is truer forever. Like, I'm peeling back these layers. You know he's dead and you're angry because I don't feel like he wants to be more famous or richer or win more awards. I feel like Am I using my platform to its greatest effect now? It would be more honest. Am I letting it all out before I die? Am I really serious? I can only do things that I'm passionate about because they'll surprise you, so the answer is yes and, um, in the office, I guess the realism was a random thing or by accident or whatever, and since I worked in an office for 10 years, It was harder for me to make mistakes, you know?

I mean mr. straight, I'll go with that no, but that wasn't, but that would be, so it was easy. I was also emulating something, oh, it was a fake document that you saw and I saw a lot of those overnight. It's where an ordinary person got their 15 minutes of fame and you know, it was interesting just being at work, so those were the influences, so it was easy, it was easy to make it happen and you know, Leahy, you find out that we probably did less trap than real documentaries. particularly by today's standards, we wouldn't have a camera waiting for someone, we wouldn't catch him doing something and he was a very elaborate spy or they would forget that his microphone was on, so I've always been obsessed with realism.

My favorite things were real even to the point that, uh, the first time I saw something by Mike Lee, I don't know, it's so important, I thought I'd never seen this before, people were talking about each one. another one and it wasn't even hinted at, it was a crappy old game store with some cameras, it wasn't even as good as he got to be and even in the case of another spy girl, which I thought and still think is cool . a little bit that made me feel guilty so when he says and it's a big leap it's a big joke um no sir shakespeare complete works of shakespeare never bound and they say he's showing off he says of course you can't read that kind of thing and I thought, well, that's not a joke because you know what most people don't know and that is and it's not that he's just making fun of my attempt to improve themselves, but he didn't do it right and there was still a little flutter of "okay, okay, so when I came to do it myself I wanted to, I wanted to accept that honest working class guy that they were knew I'm more into a mix.

I like Billy Connolly. I just thought I wanted to be." like him, but he spoke to his audience like you do to a mate in the pub and um, and I remember when I first had to meet with channel 4 about the before office show when they had done the 11 o'clock show period and and the most important thing was a crunchy Morrison brass tie which I thought I still think is amazing, but it's also kind of gardening, isn't it? It's not like you, I don't want to say, it's the people who love it and I thought I wanted to mix that kind of comedy and that kind of, I guess, pursuit of excellence and intellect, but make it kind of accessible, so I remember saying that I wanted to do.

I was talkingwith someone and I told him what I wanted to do. of wanting to bring that to the working classes, which sounds very condescending but stunned from the beginning, but I felt that, you know, my family didn't see brass. I felt like I was part of the media, loving something, right? No, I mean, yeah, I know what you mean, I understand the idea of ​​sort of cultural ISM and esotericism and I feel like you know you obviously have an incredibly amazing sense of humor. refined and at the risk of reinforcing a compliment I have already paid you. you, who were hardly reciprocated, I feel that you are a genius as in the kind of lineage appropriate to Hancock Clay Coogan and although your background is marked by the ordinary and the ordinary and the general kind of beauty of the ordinary is obviously something that captivates you There is something that I understand first of all, I think about that kind of perception that you have and I and I would also offer secondly to be very successful and I wonder if you like how you have experienced alienation before success and Then also keep in mind He says that, before his comedy career, he knows that there are things with the new 20-year-old Ricky Gervais that look romantic and also remember that I mentioned before about suicide and despair, so if you can have an answer that covers all that Jesus territory, wow, I don't know if I don't know, I don't know, I ever suffered from one of those more chronic conditions of never, I never really felt like you know. or I've never suffered something terrible and that's why I understand your causeless depression, you know, I've had pain, you know, my loved ones died and all that growing up, I just want to say, I did it, I didn't know I was poor and working. class until I was 14 15 nothing I meant we're all in the same boat I went to a trust at school and I was, you know, I was smart, so I was among the first there, I always, I always felt like I was going to university I just jammy I never felt like everything was out of my reach I never thought it wouldn't happen to him which is strange I don't know why he had that confidence maybe he didn't maybe I'm remembering it right maybe it was bravado or maybe it was just I thought that was the only way to do it in academia.

It's very funny because 500 years ago, to advance in a class, you knew you had to be a great warrior and you know you might have an idea, but that was very very dangerous then the industrial beginning, you know, finding cold old seekers, you know , when I struck gold and they moved and they moved into neighborhoods like mine and you know they got richer than the rich, but in our kind of life, I guess the last group to do it was pop culture, you know, they're footballers and stars from pop, where you know you certainly heard the working class with regional accents and they were in mansions and driving Rolls Royces into swimming pools, which I'm sure you have done, but I would never go, that's one way to make it public, let's look for you and so we can fix this, so I'm aware of all those things, but I never, I never felt it, I was never aware of it.

You know, I guess the first time. I went to an interview at university and that's when I heard people who sounded a bit like the Queen and I hadn't heard that accent, maybe you know my teachers were working class, it's like everything they were working on told us that They were boys, you know, complete. noting reading and that's when I started interacting with people you knew of different classes and wealth and I remember meeting someone who didn't know it was a supermarket and I thought he was fooling me, I thought he was fooling me and I guess the dice played no because I am my first darling.

I got a skin and I love the fact that I had an ID to get into college and I could show my so I definitely bet I know I remember using my dad's. old Lang donkey jacket on oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, oh hey guys, I'm working class, I'm one of the 6%, well I guess I was talking like it was explained to me, I didn't feel alienated, but if. It also doesn't seem like you literally wore your class like a badge and didn't feel inferior, and I'm assuming you know a character like David Brin who is under all this kind of unbearable social pressure and wants to improve himself on camera. to the protagonist in the afterlife dealing with despair as if it were your taste and, of course, your obsession with authenticity.

I wonder where in your own life there is something that is very private to you, feelings of what kind, well, because it enters into your art. but sometimes you know I'm really interested in letting people know not to use that oak region as a window into the comedian's soul because sometimes I do a joke or a routine that's the opposite of what I feel because it enhances the joke and I'm militant about people listening, it's silly puns, but it's really just a joke and sometimes it's the opposite of what I think. I start with my supernatural, so I make a sort of It's a bawdy joke, everyone's grown up and I say it was ironic, you see, because that's when I say something I really don't mean and you, as the audience, laugh. from wrong because you know what is right.

He's a waiter and I saw and they understood it and they called back that sometimes I don't know, don't disappoint me, now what we said, so I'm playing with those those those limitations and misunderstandings, but your first point is David Ben and they saw it. He fascinated me that please do a little bit with the Foley towers, where you know he was, he was lower middle class and you know he wanted his aspiration to be Buckingham Palace, while at that time. I'm not going to do it in the office, the new aspiration was to back Palace, it was that kind of level, you know, I mean, I want to be on TV or whatever court, I want to be on TV, I want to be famous and it was just walking in sneaked in there and it was a very important part of the office without it being a mockumentary, which is a very boring average sitcom, there are some jokes, there are some great reports, but if you don't know why this man acts like this, I've lost 50% of what's funny and tragic about it here, you're right, he's trying to move like Basil Fawlty, he's trying to move well, but he's doing it for the same reasons, right? and all of you, this man, I want this, we need that.

We have to do that, sir, it all comes down to one thing: being happy, being happy with yourself and having, and at that point, what's been happening with asbestos, how many boxes you have to tick and what people forget, it's worth thinking about, it's absolutely huge, it's worth it and um, so all those things were related to David Brent, but he basically needed a hug and remembrance back in the days when you were in every newspaper and doing every interview of Clay, you used someone to say what your favorite thing is and you said them. in the office and there was a photo of David Ben and you talk about what they've been and you said it's beautiful it felt and it's and because of him and I'm when the first times I read that someone is that and because they need a hug that's all that's all he's doing is saying I'm good enough do you still love me and it's tragic and when you know that I think you liked it I think you liked it yes yes he always did so my favorite lines I like that I was thinking about that recently that that's not It is good news and bad news, it is good news and irrelevant news, that is not a phrase, although the ism is mediocre, now they know that we have leaders who say things like that, the bad news is in the pandemic, the good news is me.

I'm actually up three in the polls and things just got worse and worse. I had to really up my game and life on the road because it's been 15 years and now David Brent wasn't even that old Abed, don't I mean the people in the apprentice who say I'll destroy anyone who gets in the way my way, that's like an unwritten law with the producers that leave me in an arbitrary 400 failures of Big Brother contestants let me in there and our powerful intention of United States McLaws okay, promise me. I'll be back with this obsession with watching normal people destroy themselves, some of them, some of them, I don't know how, some of them passed the medical exam, because some of them shouldn't be there and it's not good for them, no . this my people keep coming back well, do you still love me?

No, they don't love you, they want you to fail. Anyway, there's a kind of glorification of stupidity in the culture and it seems like that's something that still bothers you that it's a celebration of stupidity and it seems like a lot of what you're saying is that you're a down-to-earth person. the earth, as you said, as if you knew that my role is that of a jester. I don't want to understand it. in my box so you know you can make fun of the King, but don't start like you're trying to grab the crown or something, yeah, but I'm thinking about how, what is it, look, there's two areas I want to talk to . about one, your deep love of animals and your obvious, very public and articulate

atheism

, and I'll talk about us, look at those things as correlative, you know, as opposed to us as we go, but, like him, first of all Have you always been like this? that with animals, yeah, well, that's it, yeah, I mean, I don't remember not loving animals, I mean, you know, I was born into a family with them, with pets and that was all I remember when I was a kid. , my brother was 10 years old. years older than me and he got in trouble for punching a guy in the park and when my, oh, my mom wanted us, it really wasn't just going to jail or dying in a bar fight, you know, I mean, that wasn't The international comedian just doesn't die sooner, baby, you know, and um, so he must have been the one, but he was angry and she was like, Why did you hit him? and he said, he kicked the dog and my mom said, "It's okay, I remember." five six seven years old I'm in the garden all the time just look I was fascinated with the world I want to know everything about the world Where did this worst animal evolve from?

Maybe uh, I wanted it all, I mean, I guess learning was my first love, but science and nature have always fascinated me, I still am, um, it's always been a privilege, it makes me feel good, I don't know why an animal makes me feel good. I mean, or an animal, you know, and you even know when a cat died recently, but it was like that cat sat on me, it's a doctor, let's try everything we can, it was still a privilege that Kant wanted to sit . In me I think how beautiful and I can't emphasize enough that we are and I know you totally agree with this but we are just part of nature that's not what it's about we don't have anything special we're not as important as bees we're not as important as the bees well, let's let her think, so yeah, I love my being, hey, everything about preservation and nature, and this species and that species keep croaking like animals.

I don't understand. I don't know why I don't know pleasure. I'm concerned about the psychology of the people you meet, and because it's a scale, there's obviously a weird scale, from some sort of serial killer to people who just don't think it's worth worrying about? You know, but yeah, I never knew. Your waist is the only thing that makes my blood boil and keeps me awake at night. Know? And now we have Twitter. and you do what you can, yes, not a day goes by without someone sending me something. I come out that it wasn't in my head, but it's like that, I have to do it to someone now, you know, yeah, yeah, I guess so.

They should be like people who don't get along and people who are capable of being cruel to animals. It seems like I guess there's some sort of rift between that person and this knowledge that we all feel pain, sort of a kind of impeded compassion or something like that again, inability to feel that there's something wrong with someone who really enjoys seeing a animal suffer. I mean, that's one end of the scale, you know, but then there are people who deny it, you know, there are people, there's a lot of propaganda out there, white. So, okay, why do you know all my findings?

It's okay and because it is an honorable way for everyone to die quietly because it is a tradition, so was slavery and child sacrifice, it trains the culture correctly, it's like what I don't understand. I don't understand that and the things that you later discover the things behind there like this secret with a sword right, they already jumped the ball, they cut the contestants in the back of the head, they dulled it let's keep it safe a cinnamon honestly why did he do this to me why are you sincere yes I don't understand I think many of them are the problems that were experienced in the world in the entire scope of our conversation so far whether it is people who crave fame, adulation, approval from celebrities or people who are cruel to animals.

I think I imagine it may stem from a sense of being separated from nature, whether internal or external nature, so people see themselves as isolated, alienated individuals that they are making their own. luck in the world and live soft in a world stripped of meaning or devoid of meaning and this is where I am I guess I'm interested in the way you know because I've listened to your staff well your wife didn't start when you saw your mother , don't say that to your brother when you have a kid like you know and that Jesus was some kind of babies and an extra babysitter and an omnipresent type of you.

I know the farm's nanny, but I like her,but, because I spend a lot because, look, I spend a lot of time. I guess I'm a solipsistic narcissistic person, you know, I've been through the mill with addiction, fame, sex, drugs and money. and all that kind of stuff and it's put me in a place where I've had to open myself up to different ideas. I imagine that if you and I were talking about institutional or orthodox religion and the way it's structured and the way that power was deployed, prejudices enacted violence and what was written, I think we'd probably agree, but one of the things I feel is that my own love for animals and also my cat died last week, unfortunately, it was also six days of travel counted and It was as if it affected me so much that I was more surprised by the amount of grief and sadness.

I felt like he took a part of me. I let it hit me

full

on. We bury the profit. Then I thought. AHA. What went into this was just a little bit of self-indulgence everything was sincere except for one moment Ricky I smeared dirt on my face like some kind of expression of deep pain, that's why I needed to do it, that's fair and I think, well, the way you're going is that I seem like a spiritual person but not literally in that way - Toby - I'm as interested in seeing a tree or a mountain or a bird or a river as anyone who thinks God made it.

I mean, I see the beauty of nature and I think. most and I don't, I don't know, I miss it, but you are right, there is a big difference between spirituality, there is something in the self that helps you overcome that, what you want, you want to know the reason why you want to connect All those things. I filled all those things without belief in a god or goddess, religion, other religion, religion basically says: you want to go to heaven. I know it, I know it. You just have to do this for me. No, we called.

You know in the week. We know. everything that started was usually written by a man with an agenda there, it's like it's not a coincidence all those rules in the Old Testament favor certain men in the it's not a coincidence, you know, and the same with you, you know that en It's not a coincidence that if you're born in America you're probably Christian, if you're born in India you're probably Hindu, etc., except we know it, but if we're talking about spirituality and I'm all for it, it's never bothered me. It's never that anyone believes in God, it's never bothered me, it's what do you do with it if you start telling me I know, I love this prophet or that prophet and it's okay, yeah, and I do this and I think I'm cool, yeah. that and I think we should throw gays off buildings, well now we have to talk now that we have a job you know, that's when suddenly there's an agenda that coincidentally favors the person you know, that's when people have exactly luck.

God agrees with them, yes, yes, and with them, and I believe that he began with good intentions in the knowledge of lies, when my character invents religion, he does it because he cannot stand his mother's fear of death and I remember when my mother was dying. if she asked me, I was thinking I was going to liars, forget it, it's probably because it's a you know, I'm probably with that, so I think there are so many myths about

atheism

that we can get into the definitions and all that, but I think. It's worse, people think that atheists run into churches and ruin people's days, you know it's nonsense, nothing really, they asked me, they have been to the church, I have a chair, yes, they are lovely buildings, I love them, but what do you think? do you mean?

I know what this is, I don't know where it comes from, and besides, technically, atheism doesn't even mean you don't believe in God, it means you're sorry you believe there's no God, it means you just haven't found God, yeah. you know, there's no evidence that they're true offerings, you know, it turns out and I've explained it many times that technically I'm an agnostic atheist because what it's about is knowledge and what it's about is belief, so no one knows if we agree on Well, no one knows that we are all atheists, so what do you think and what do believers say?

I believe there is a God and I just believe that I don't believe there is a God because I don't have any evidence yet, so that's it, that's all I am. saying like you say religions something more to believe in spirituality and you know, and people even support me and if someone proved that there is a God, you would believe that Korso would do it and I wouldn't even believe it, it would be knowledge, you know, it would also be the The greatest discovery I have ever forgotten, forget this, cancel, the Nobel saw and from now on he discovered God, that is done and I think you already know, and that would change everything, I think, but until we know, we just don't, I don't want to live my life. for a belief in something but I have no evidence of that that's all that's all I say and sometimes I tell people you know I'm a good Christian or someone really good for you or I'm sometimes someone who does everything good in your holy book and ignore the bad parts and I say that if you already know it from mom you don't need the book and you know that you have to choose and we know that the bad beliefs were the ones that Do the bad thing too, you know, so for me it is personal .

Turns out I don't believe in God. I used to believe, but now I've thought about it and I feel like I don't need a God, um, but what I really object to is people assuming that you can't be a good person if you don't believe in a proven God. over and over again and you live tweeting things like "there are good ideas and bad atheists, there are good Christians and bad Christians and God has never changed that and all I'm saying is that I get it, it's not like that, this is not nonsense, it works both ways, you shouldn't judge people by their beliefs, you should judge them by their actual behavior, you know right and wrong, you know, some people believe in the right thing but they don't do the right thing and vice versa, and I just?

I think I feel like I don't need it, I just don't need external structured guidance, you know my own morality and morality is relative and not absolute, you would have to keep the dogma is the problem I think the dogma is the real problem and that's it. It's not just in religion, it's infiltrating everything, it's infiltrating politics and it's not infiltrating identity politics, it's infiltrating everything social. structures and opinions is that's what you know if someone tells me this is what they shouldn't be questioned no that's um no less question the best of the best go back to a survey know what don't expect oh I wasn't teaching someone said that I Always I will even be a board game.

I think what are the rules. Yes, I have been on something of an opposite journey and feel that I started out as an atheist in the same way that I would reject any attempt to impose regulation or control. on me for domination purposes and, but you know, I've been through my own things with addiction and mental health or whatever, and I know you're very similar, you know that, for example, the afterlife is about something legitimate. grief rather than some kind of abstract idea of ​​mental illness caused by a hormonal or neurological balance, but my own feeling of despair, particularly looking at it from a perspective of mental health issues in addiction, is that there is an unaddressed longing for a type of disease. of unity together nurse and I have said that you noted your point earlier about Brynn for love and when you talk about that feeling of wonder like the appreciation of an animal the love of an animal when the kind of consideration and gratitude for having an animal that loves you and take care of you or the beauty of nature or the deep beauty of the cosmos what I feel in my own appreciation, the understanding of the stroke, the belief in God is that there is a kind of love for him in the consciousness of right itself there was an indication that there is something called right, not that any particular group or ideology has unique, but particular and special, access to it and I really do believe strongly and deeply that spirituality is for me, not for me. to tell other people, oh yeah, I don't think you should be gay or they think you should be allowed to.

I feel like it's an identification imaginable in the Bible, it says you should pray in secret, no one, oh yeah, yeah, like there is. something so deeply private about it. I also believe, Ricky, that there is a social consequence; I don't necessarily want to say some because I completely agree with your point that there are good and bad things that you know beyond that kind of limited taxonomy, but I feel like when people think that that has no purpose or meaning and that it doesn't necessarily It has to simply be due to a belief in God, cultures are created that are strangely nihilistic materialistic and I feel that in the last 20 years we are seeing more and more worship of the self and the individual, of course, there is a new narcissism, of course , and I don't know why I think social media is the brain of this party.

I think people who are rewarded for bad behavior are partly to blame, you know, magazines. or television or whatever and I made a speech in the Big Brother house as Andy Millman in extras and again that was in the beginning and now it's gotten worse, but a couple of points, I think there are some people who crave unity and understanding about why what we are here because, again, it is a very human question of words if we want to know why, when the arts are why and something that we do not accept, but we do not know it yet, but we are on the way.

They know well, they understood the loopholes, we understand that what if it did? If you don't know, it's funny. God did it. Okay, that's how it is. If they even dance, I'll play a joke on them afterwards, like when cats annoy me. and she says it all came from someone out of nowhere and I'll use it all as a compliment that God did well, where did God come from, she was, he's always been present. I don't see them blessing that in that, so you know it's not like that. Answer the question, but I understand it and I think a portion of people want there to be some kind of divine justice because you know it would be cool, good people would reward bad people, people would be punished, brilliant, okay, isn't it? . works like this you know he just has to look um you know that children in Africa are born with cancer and you know we know that's not the case we know mysterious ways it's an explanation okay that to me is someone who doesn't know the answer and says mysterious ways but other than that you're right we're looking for the answer why we're here and I think we think wait well it's too good it's too good to be possibilities everything is perfect well it seems that's how you know Douglas Adams puddle, you know when you imagine this Islip this hot more perfectly and, but I think you're right where we're afraid, Malone and we did, the idea of ​​data is horrible, you'll never exist again, what was the point and again. don't talk about this in a future life where I'm Cass saying that if you know there's no heaven you won't kill yourself and I'm saying that if you're watching a really good movie but you know it's going to end, you might as well do that.

Well, stop doing it, you should know because I'm not going to see you again today and I say I can ask the wonderful thing about mine, we can't see you again, you know, one day your hug, you know you are, your mother for the last time, just smell your lost ground, you will eat your last meal, you know it is your last, but it will be a moment of relaxation, so you will have to make the most of everything and it is the terror of a good prospect, it is a little sad that you will never exist. again I think about it, but that doesn't mean it's not true, you know, the bottom line is I can't believe something I don't believe and then how do I find the meaning?

Well we're here, we're here, chances are it's us, you. being you and me being me existing now that's firm that's 400 billion to one you know we're not special what we're lucky we exist is incredible and I think about it it's a holiday we don't exist thirteen and a half billion years later we explode into this mass this electronic mass of for introspection love hate fear beauty horror for eighty nine hundred years if we are lucky then we die and we will never exist again we would return to our homes return and it leads to the right and that is not scary because I think the People are afraid of death because they don't know what's beyond and someone told me what you think it feels like when you die and I said like thirteen and a half billion years before I was born and that was right mmm, so, but the most important thing is injecting wrong and I think you're totally right, I think you're totally right when you start to think about it, why are you here?

Well, I'm not even Damn, but why, live your life to the

full

est and not hurt anyone. Leave the world a better place than it was when you arrived. Experience everything. All the reasons. All obvious reasons. learning and all these great things that you can do every minute of every day that you are alive and then you check it you know that I have done it thank you and it is and it is done it is beautiful it is beautiful it is beautiful but I hit when You consider that for some things one is like that, like the injection of meaning, since you know that the meaning would have to be imported, manufactured externally, invented in some way, whereas I think on some level I feel that the meaning is here and that the meaning is in the kind of zeal that you have when describe the things that give you loving pleasure, you know the connections, whether it's wine or dogs or whatever.

I've had some experiences like through meditation and when I took drugs when I was young. andnow, I'm not allowed to take ayahuasca or LSD or things that I would definitely be doing if I wasn't in recovery, but I had those experiences that were kind of an evaporation, I would say. of myself and yet a continuous awareness. I know my consciousness is connected to my biology, but I have a feeling somewhat derived from the fact that you know you can't trace how the mechanical parts ever become conscious that consciousness may be elemental. In some ways that doesn't point to a god in a traditional patriarchal or dominant sense, but then one element is very difficult to quantify, whether it's the deep intelligence of nature, the deep mathematics of biochemistry and biology, and the essential mystery of consciousness itself, what is commonly known as the difficult problem and through these types of individual experiences.

While I haven't had anything that you would call a typically religious Jesus emerging from a claw or Ganesh whipping or anything like that, what I have had is very interpretive because there is something of a single breath. I breathe, you breathe from the abdomen very aggressively and then you take a strong inhalation and usually just fine, a doctor would say what you're doing there is hyperventilating and just passing out, but from the inside what it feels like is Damn, in this moment I am conscious and it is not me, what is this, what is this, is there a possibility that my consciousness, your consciousness, the consciousness of all animals and a consciousness that is impossible to read, is somehow present in all nature, in all matter? and if that is true, then there is a kind of real and genuine cohesion and union between all beings on earth and beyond and, like most people, we cannot actually enjoy the lives that we are privileged to having red wine or dogs or whatever, I'm not saying it's any kind of consolation to them, but in fact those of us who are in a privileged position might feel newly encouraged to work for a different kind of society in a system that better reflects those values ​​now that it doesn't necessarily require monotheism or pantheonism or any of those things, but it's sort of underpinned by a kind of equality and unity and how that might relate to justice and there's also a kind of personal experience of mystery in it.

I'm wondering how you feel about that and if you're curious about psychedelics and that, and always thank you for that, you know I love a little bit of mystery and you're right, it's a mysterious science, all the science that does is a discipline that follows. the evidence and what science keeps saying and some people say this is the bottom but it has been wrong before, science has never been wrong in interpretation, scientists wouldn't know, science is just a way of looking and understand the physical universe and what science says. It keeps saying, okay, this is the least wrong theory we have so far and then the next day everything is fine, we were even less wrong today, we were less wrong today, you know, they've mapped the beginning of the universe to a fraction. of a second, which is pretty close, but I think the quote keeps being proven over and over again and the fact that we don't understand, we still fully know the mind-body problem and that's the beauty and the more we understand the more it generates. questions is like, you know, people say the missing link is this fossil and it's this fossil and we found that one and people, but no, there's two missing links, so you can't win, you know, and all the science that we do it's just keep filling in the gaps and finding and finding new gaps um, but yeah, you're right, you know, I think it's amazing what intelligence is, what you know, I'm a determinist that doesn't change anything, I think free will is an illusion, so Mir, if so.

It sounds like it could be too, but did they test it and come out okay? We are, we are machines, we are, we are machines, we are machines and weird machines trying to understand ourselves and that's hard, well then one day I'll be a computer. is suffering from anxiety, I think hmm, I think there will be a cool computer that is worried about you, I really do, yeah that's weird, he loves hanging out with chimpanzees with brains the size of a planning course, we go crazy and We try to kill each other. others and worrying about what the point of course we make is overwhelming and the more you think about it the scarier it is so I think you know my new my new show, supernatural.

I start by saying that it is called supernatural for two reasons: one, I want to debunk the supernatural. I don't believe in anything supernatural. I believe that anything that exists is, by definition, part of nature and is explained or not, now and then eventually and also supernatural, because nature is excellent enough not to. We don't need angels in unicorns, we have the octopus and they won't do it. You know no, we don't need to look. I feel like we don't need to look elsewhere. That doesn't mean that it's I'm not amazed by the poetic intelligence and you know, I just don't think that unweaving the rainbow ruins it, I think it makes it more entertaining when we see, when I see a card trick and I don't know how it's done and then the magician. he tells me I can't wait for him to show someone else who doesn't know how it's done and how to make this more exciting for me he just denied it to me yes yes I know and and also I saw don't believe in magic you I know about that kind of things, but one of the things I talked to Neil deGrasse Tyson about was that yeah, that guy is amazing.

I told him about this type of physics. All bets are off. We can talk like. blue in the face and then quantum physics comes along and there's a saying that if you think you understand quantum physics you don't understand quantum physics, it's magical in my quantum physics according to all our definitions of science and nature, and we are smart people. I've read about it, we think we have a good brain, we have a good brain, it's anyone, but quantum physics is mental, yes, it seems that what I like came up in our conversation and I used it to illustrate my feeling that the limitations of our senses and the limitations of our ability to handle knowledge mean that there will always be a realm beyond knowledge that all scientific disciplines depend on the application of microscopic senses, telescopic senses, even calculating devices. like AI and I think I don't see quantum physics rule type magic, but I do see it as an application of hell, there is an intelligence at work, but we can't, you know, that's what some people say. you can't understand it like God can understand his job, he got God's brain, that's all physics to me, you know, the fact that it happens means that existing is true and it's scientific, but then ask us to understand it now with the week.

That's a great question because it's amazing just the uncertainty principle the fact that I want it to be a metaphor I want to go we don't mean literally this applies to you oh yeah we do because the way people start over right, I have two dads it's because yeah, it's a little bit and it's generally the scale of things that we can't understand, you know, but that doesn't mean it's not true and it's true, if it's true, it's real or it's like that. It's that simple to me and I know that sounds like a linguistic trick to get away without really feeling like I understand it, but that doesn't mean it's not true and that's all I think about, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you don't understand something. not be understandable.

I would be arrogant enough to think that because I don't understand consciousness and just because the university expands it doesn't mean it's not true, so I guess I always have. I have that dress clause I don't have to believe for a being I made a different being in a different game and level I did it I don't like it that's all I don't believe it and I think most people would be satisfied if you sat down He crouched down and He said all those things. Do you think God did good? He did it. He just doesn't have a will like you think.

It's just nature. Yes, and I think some people would be happy with that. I think so, because Will likes you. I know as much as I can understand it, it is strongly related to my individual imperatives that are based on survival, which are therefore material needs, to procreate, to need to fit in, to have a phone, to have a shell and to die, so it will be, however, It's refracted through a culture that no longer requires me to look for shells or find food, you know, they're all cultures that come from this place and I think when we talk about the absolute, whether we're talking about it in scientific terms materialistic or In spiritual, even religious terms, it's not going to be something that we can comprehend and understand, and I've always used it as a sort of rebuttal to the idea of ​​why bad things happen because I feel like we're on a very narrow bandwidth here. . of all the potential realities of all the understandable and unformed potential forms that our notions of good and evil are inhibited we are if we are beyond that yes well this is another one again I put it in I put a fly first a little joke where the cat tells me and we, if you don't believe in God and heaven, all that, why don't you go out raping and murdering all you want and I say I did it, which is not at all and that's the perspective scary? that some people, because they think they are an absolute marabi, think that there is no point in being good without a God and that is the best of the great, it is a pretty big school of thought that people take that to the nth degree, but although already You know, my concern is that if you're not murdering just because you think God is watching you, that's scary, yeah, it's the purge, you know, if that's what's stopping you from murdering, then yeah, okay, yeah, that one.

It's a good way, but it's the one that helps you get ahead, so yeah, I don't believe in You're Absolutely Right because I think we invented morality so we could be as happy as possible. And you know, if there are different laws for different times in different species, you know that the law of the spider is the same as the law of the human we know that if I starve I don't eat my own legs what do we do, we don't bite the head of the Then it's silly to try to equate morality with nature and spirituality in religion it's because people got together and decided that the best way to live, you know, is a society more than anything and morality existed before I I had God, in my opinion, before any God, you know, and they just took the raw gold that I love.

My love, it's not religion you know, do what they would do to you and I think that's a very good rule of thumb and it would be, and if everyone did that the world would instantly be a better place without any God. interference and the other one that I have come to love, probably my favorite piece of the Bible that everyone has forgotten. I see it more and more and it lasts between 10 and 15 years and, particularly, social networks allow those months: it was without sin. the first stone and I say yes, close quickly, that would silence so many people and you know, despite what people think of me, I am not a very critical person in my right, but I do whatever, you know, what good, good luck, you know.

I always try to see, I even try to empathize with what he called bad people. I think why they do that. Oh, I'm always ready to do it. I would be a judge and I would promise you that you won't do it again. You know he would. It's not right like you're not Annie, I really know, you know that one is a bad bear, a thousand guilty, free them, one is the person you know, but we have to have these social laws for the benefit of one and in the The irony is that a secular society would defend all rights to religious beliefs more than any religion, but all it says is let's not achieve it or be a super sister-in-law, let's not do it and it's so funny I see it.

Look, I see the hypocrisy in a country called a free country, that hates the idea of ​​this fundamentalist faith, but they are doing the same thing, it's just that there is a different God, they are doing it. Cool, everyone be equal. You are the same, you believe that God is on your side and you can, you can, you know your tribe can rule, so yeah, you know, unlike all religions, I treat all religions equally, yeah, and what What about secularism, to a certain extent, it is supported by economic ideologies and so am I? I saw that social systems, in some ways, behave precisely as religions do, in the sense that they inhibit peace.

I don't agree with that talk. There is a certain feeling that we want to separate church from state, which you know is not the case. you don't base any law on a particular belief in a particular god or religion, you know that's what it always says is really me and you know what in the freest and most liberal sense we'll start is that it's actually secular, but some people go to church and that's fine, it doesn't bother anyone, but in a biology, physics and chemistry exam, the answer is no point, that's all, that always says that the nicest society insists on doing it, this works, the biology works, physics works, it works. and over and over again and it's just it's just induction and it would be amazing if you could would you found religion?

I honestly wouldn't honestly limit religion in fact if someone went on strike banning someone's right tobelieve in her Whatever God I've marched with Owen, let them believe in their God, you have the right to believe in anything, honestly, I think anyone has the right to believe in God, elves, which is, you know, just don't throw gays into buildings and we're fine, yeah. God and good become synonymous in any meaningful ideology that there is some kind of harmony and the greatest possible justice and not innovation, but it's all, it's all I have. You know, now I've lost the working class, so everything I have.

It is atheism as my oppression there are thirteen countries where they will execute me and in the United States we were the least voted for the trusted group along with rapists, so I have always been 80. I am oppressed Russell, in that case I am on your side, yes, the evil Ricky, we've done our part, buddy, that's it, yeah, that's what you could go back to your carefully guarded rituals of opening, whatever else holds you together in your ungodly nihilistic spending, well, I'm just saying that I. I'll give you a compliment, so it's so lovely to see you nice and grown up, not sitting there in a sheet but in real clothes and I couldn't be more proud oh-ho, that's lovely, thanks mate, that's what I'll be wearing. that thanks man, thank you so much if you enjoyed that conversation, go to the luminary calm podcast now and sign up for a free one week trial and listen to the many fantastic conversations I've had on this platform.

Simon I'm still one of them, who we did recently, which I really liked David Eagleman, absolutely fantastic, Oh Frankie Boyle, so many brilliant conversations, okay, much love, glad you enjoyed it, thanks for tuning in.