Richard Branson: How A Dyslexic Drop-out Build A Billion Dollar Empire!

Do you think about whether it is selfish? It's worth it? It's something like this? Sir Richard Branson Richard Branson is one of the funniest and most adventurous

billion

aires in the world. He has conquered our scars. He took off into space. The entrepreneurs. Businessman. The marketing specialists. at the Business School they said: concentrate at the age of 33, you have 50 different companies, you kind of break that law, it seems that if we had stayed still and focused only on one business, we wouldn't have a business today if we did. If we were still going strong 55 years later, if you get the little details right, we make it an exceptional company over an average company.

We were the first airline to introduce seatback videos in the world. Bed seats for business class passengers. We have always been at the forefront. The airline has been bullied by British Airways through its famous dirty tricks campaign, the best always succeeds, as if everything you've done before wasn't enough, you decided to shoot for the stars, let's go to space, looking back at It's beautiful, beautiful. The Earth we live on while floating was a dream come true. You know, we are still in the early stage of space travel and there are still risks. A pilot died after a passenger spacecraft crashed.

Everything we had built looked like that. was collapsing, what impact does that have on you and your mission? You have to continue before this episode starts. I have a small favor to ask you two months ago. 74 of the people who watch this channel did not subscribe. Now we are. up to 69, my goal is 50, so if you ever liked any of the videos that we've posted, if you like this channel, can you do me a quick favor and hit that subscribe button? Help this channel more than you think and bigger. the channel becomes as you've seen it, the bigger the guests get, thank you and enjoy this episode, oh yeah, Richard spent the last 24 hours reading your autobiographies but also your new HBO docuseries Eve, your mother, um , she felt like a real She really has extraordinary principles and a strong character and in the documentary series you say that you didn't realize how much she had influenced you to become the businessman you are today.

What was she doing pushing her out of the car at 45 years old? She was old and made you walk home, but what were those principles that underlined her approach? You know, cutting out pretty pictures from books and making and turning them into, you know, turning them into photographs that I would then take to Harrods or Harvey Nichols, um, funnily enough, and I didn't realize this until I saw it in some letters that she gave me. she had written um uh um you know working from a phone box in London um and um uh and that was her office just like my office had been later working from a phone box at school um but um uh yeah but she would never stop , she was an idea, an idea for a minute and always trying to uh uh, you know better Our lives better and um um and also always trying to create things that she could be proud of, when was she most proud? you in terms of what kind of behaviors or achievements would make her happiest when you were young um she um yes she was quite uh yes she was she was quite firm when it came to you know the need to um you know being polite from an early age and I mean I remember uh uh in church one day I refused to go and sit next to someone who she wanted me to sit with and who was maybe visiting our house and when I got home um uh she asked my dad spanks me and uh that's never happened before and my dad takes me into the living room to the next room and um uh and he orders me to burst into tears and he slaps his hands really hard six times. salt rubbing my butt um but um um and then of course she regretted doing it in the first place but of course it never happened so um the um but um um but what do you know you know she she you know she generally says it It was a unreserved love, but she wanted us to care for other people properly.

You know, if we ever said bad things about someone, they would send us to the mirror and we would have to stay there for 10 minutes. Because you know that she. I felt like it reflected so badly on us that we had misspoken as someone um and you know, those kind of minor lessons I think were very, very, very powerful and very good uh later in life, when I was, you know, leading people, um always trying. look for the best in everyone. One of the threads throughout your story that amazed me, surprised me, and inspired me in many ways throughout the documentary series was this continuous desire to move on to the next thing, make things bigger, and capture another. opportunity that I found at times was like really defining your character, you know, even when things seemed to be successful in someone's estimation, you kept going again and then you kept going again and again, do you have any idea where that is? instinct or that?

The characteristic came from you I'm sure it came from um uh my mom I'm the Son of Eva, which is my mom's name um and um but I also think because I was

dyslexic

um and you know, pretty desperate at school um I I've always been trying to prove something to myself um and um and and I proved something you know when she was alive for her and my dad um and um uh I'm curious I love it I love learning about new things um uh and once I actually, I've absorbed everything there is to know about, you know, uh, I just created a mapping app to want to go ahead and learn something about something completely different, especially if I feel like other people aren't doing it right and and I love to dive in there and um, trying to, you know, shake up an industry that's mismanaged, do you think she, her and your father, even your father, Ted had high hopes for you.

I think, my mother, he definitely thought. that I would be and yeah, she, she, decided that I was going to be Prime Minister of Great Britain one day and um uh, and I think that um, yeah, she, so she, she definitely had high hopes for me, um, uh, My dad only loved us. to be happy, I mean, he was a very loving, content and funny man, witty, individual, he wanted to be an archaeologist, but he ended up going into law after the war and would have been happy, I think, as long as we were. Happy that he didn't care, you know he didn't really want to pressure us, but um, but my mom I think she expected him to expect more from us.

You mentioned school a few moments ago. You and I have a similarity in that we were useless in school. You went to boarding school when you were seven, which in itself is a pretty extreme experience for a seven-year-old. You describe this as being too young in your opinion, and you struggled in part because of your dyslexia. At that time, did you know what dyslexia was or what it meant? No, I had no idea what dyslexia was. I just figured I must be a little silly. I mean, he could add and subtract, but when he got to more complicated things like algebra and geometry and things like that.

I couldn't understand the reason. I wasn't interested in it. You know, I couldn't understand why we had to learn French when no one seemed to speak it. when they left school and um or Latin or um and um and then I guess in my head I rebelled against being taught things that I couldn't see the relevance of um and um and actually that was a good thing because that's how it ended with me rebelling by staying. in school and leaving school at 15 um and uh and creating something uh and creating a magazine uh that um to try to address some of the problems in the world your dyslexia um you've often highlighted that in in many ways it's been a superpower has given you abilities that have led you to success what is that what are those abilities and what is the advantage in your view of this dyslexia and how that has changed how you function operate um I think uh that um okay First of all, I would like To say that I am proud to be a

dyslexic

thinker and I am delighted that dyslexic thinking is now becoming almost part of the vocabulary and I am pleased to be able to speak to many. dyslexic children over the years to try to make them realize that, you know, don't worry about it, you know, look, look at the areas that you like and focus on those and the areas that you're not good at. um you know you're going to catch up later in life, or you know if you're going to start a business, you can delegate and find other people who can deal with that, so I think that dyslexic people dyslexic people really stand out. in the things that interest them and I think I know many entrepreneurs, for example, who were dyslexic and who have left, they have done incredible things. your headmaster um, I read a very uh slightly humorous, slightly um shocking story of uh, when you were at boarding school you had a little romantic encounter with him, his daughter Charlotte was expelled uh, prepared to fake a suicide, she wasn't expelled um and So You, as you mentioned a second ago, had this idea for the student magazine.

I read that an ultimatum was given to the biodirector where Richard said. I know you're starting this magazine. Either you have to leave school or um and start the magazine or stay in school and focus on your formal education and at that point you made the decision to jump ship, yeah, I mean, I don't think the director was very farsighted. I think you already know if a kid at school wants to start. a national youth magazine what a great education and they should have had, they should have welcomed us to stay at the school and do it, you know, inside the school, uh, but the principal wasn't going to let me do that um and and thank you. to God because, you know, by going out into the real world I accomplished a lot more than I would have done if he had been Pleasanton said, you know, running the magazine from school, there was a lot of things going on in the world, you know, There was the Vietnam War, there was the Biafran War and there was, um, the rector in Holland, there was, um, uh, it was the education system that needed students to rebel against and um. and so it was an exciting time in the '60s to leave school, go to London and try to start a magazine.

I saw your um like I saw your documentary yesterday in that theater we're all in. including you, one of the lines that really struck me caught my attention when they showed the small room you were

build

ing this magazine in. I know sometimes it was a postbox but sometimes there was a little room, I think at a later date a line was said. which was, um, this was my upbringing and for young people who are considering taking a leap when they have very little responsibility or think they know very little to lose, throwing themselves into that kind of situation where they will fail their way.

An education seemed so important and so underrated to me that you don't have children or you don't have a house or a mortgage and it seems like that's exactly what you did, you used failure and risk as a way to self-educate, yeah, I mean , it's hard for me to recommend to everyone who listens to this show because not everyone will be successful and obviously you and I have been lucky enough to have had success doing it that way, some people won't make it. I put my conservative hat on knowing that parents may also be listening, you know, some people will benefit from having an education that you already know, a degree or whatever to fall back on if, if they do, they find out that they are.

They just can't make it in business, um, but anyway, I think for the two of us, um, I think, um, yeah, being in the real world, I mean, I learned a lot, um and uh, um, and that's it. You know. It's been very useful to me throughout my life um you know, running a magazine, of course, you know you're going to interview people, you're learning every time you interview someone um, I, you know, I think being a journalist or being an editor, um, it's not that different from being an entrepreneur, you're, you're all the time meeting new people in different sectors, just learning, learning, learning, um and um, and you know through the magazine, uh, a lot of people I would write with problems.

Um, young people were writing with problems, so we ended up setting up as a student counseling center, where we gave advice to people about venereal diseases or to homosexuals, the gay population or um or um, you know, advice about contraceptives, advice about abortion, um psychiatric advice. you know, and you know, just meeting all these people with all these different suicidal issues, so social mental issues, um, it really opens up, it opens up my mind, it was just a fascinating, fascinating education and, um, and throughout my life since then I have spent a lot of time. My life trying to address some of these issues, first of all in a broader sense in London and now more on a global scale and um, but that was, you know, um education was so important, um, you know.

For example, I remember when I was 15 in London, you know someone who is gay came to me and said they wanted help and maybe I just turned 16 and I thought very naively that when they said they wanted help, you knew they needed it. I don't want to be gay and of course you know, within a month or two I realized that you know people are born gay and they don't have a choice about it and what they desperately need. Those days were meeting other peoplehomosexuals and, uh, because if they came from some remote part of the United Kingdom where homosexuals were not accepted, they would come to London desperately searching for love or seeking friendship um and um uh and then you know little things like that um I learned from um just from being out there listening and doing that was that magazine was your um the first kind of important and notable thing that you what you've done in business and throughout your history, and even before I met you, watching the docuseries and reading the book, other people told me that Richard Branson is an amazing delegate, you mentioned it before about your delegation skills to Understand how to delegate to another person.

First, as you said, you must understand your strengths and weaknesses and also their strengths and weaknesses. So what are your strengths? In your own words, what part of the puzzle are you good at? in I think I'm good with people um I think I try I can trust people I think I can surround myself with um uh you know with with really really good people I think I'm able to um uh yeah delegate delegate not doubt them all the time um uh yeah pray that I don't criticize um and um uh and uh I think I think I'm pretty good at uh if I create something making sure it's the best, you know the best in its area, so that the people who work for Virgin are Really proud of what they are doing.

You know, it's very important to know if someone is in a pub and works for Virgin and someone says. What do you do to make them proud of the fact that you know they work for Virgin and are happy to say so? And there are some companies that, if people work for them, they weren't. I don't really want to be able to say that they work for this or that company um yeah I think I think I think people skills um it's it's it's the most important skill um I think um uh just give give you know give things, try it, um, you know, screw it, let's do it, obviously, it's a phrase that I made years ago and, uh, and I've used that phrase many times, you know, someone comes up with an idea and I like it and um. and yeah, just say, and you know, let's try it and, um, and sometimes we're both completely fat in the face, sometimes sometimes it's successful and, conversely, so what are the weaknesses that you've observed? yourself or the things you tend to delegate to other people.

In fact, I read something that said it's a quote from him saying that he wanted an IQ test at age eight. I don't think I will have completed anything in the future 30 or For years I was running the largest private group of companies in Europe, but I didn't know the difference between gross and net profit, but it didn't matter. Yeah, I was at a board meeting when I was about 50 and the director. I said um and I think I said it's good news or bad news and then one of the directors said come on Rich come out in a minute so he came out and said you don't know the difference between that and disgusting for you so he said uh no um uh he said I thought not anyway I brought a piece of paper so she takes out the piece of paper and uh he has some colored pens and he colors it blue and then he puts a fishing mess on the um on it and then he puts a little fish in the fishing net and he says that the fish that are in the net are his profits at the end of the year and the rest of the ocean is his gross turnover and um, I said, oh, I have and since then I've been bringing that up to people who obviously know very well what it is and um, but the point of the story is, uh, it doesn't really matter, um, I mean, it's a gamble.

It's most likely a good idea if you're the chief accountant, you know that, but you know, for someone who runs a company, what matters is, can you, you know, can you create the best, the best company in your sector? Do you know that if you are going to create an airline, it will be palpably better than the rival airline? If you start a cruise company, it will probably be better than the other cruise companies if you are an excellently trained company, right? It will probably be better than what happened before and if so, at the end of the year there will probably be more money coming in than coming out um and um uh and then someone you know, someone else can add up the numbers. um uh, so I think you know how to run a business, you know, yeah, it helps start, it helps subtract, it helps multiply, um, I don't even think you need to worry about division, um, that's it. um uh, you know, if you can, if you can do those three things, um, uh, you can run a business if you can't do those three things.

I wouldn't worry too much, you would find someone else who can and alone, but alone. go out and create something that will make a positive difference in other people's lives, that student magazine eventually became a mail-order music business, which is a big part of the docuseries we watched yesterday, but then they became in many more things and the interesting thing is how you go from one of these business ideas to the next because you had seen a product or service that you thought could be done better or that there was an opportunity there when you know, at the Entrepreneurship School, If that's a metaphorical thing, we always talk about the importance of focus now, when I look at your story, from the age of 15, when you started that magazine until you started a mail-order business, I think I was between 20 and 22, when Virgin was conceptualized and launched and then at the age of 33 you have 50 different companies involving everything from movie production to conditioner cleaning and generating over 10 million

dollar

s in sales.

I think this is not what they told me about the need for concentration in Business School they said Focus, you kind of break that law, it seems like a focus, so, um, so, I've never considered myself a business person, um, uh obviously you know on paper I'm an entrepreneur um or a business person um uh I've never really been interested in the end result despite what the doc docq series seems to betray um I've really been interested in creating things of the that I can be proud of um and uh and A lot of those things come from personal frustration and I must have been pretty frustrated when I was young because I ended up, you know, trying a lot of things, um, uh, and um, and I thought it was really fun, investing, And you know. people that I met, you know, you know someone will come and you know the music business may have been struggling at one stage in my career with Within Advent of the iPod and you know, a couple of guys come and say, um, you know we should making cell phones, this is, you know, this would replace the music business and yeah, and they were great people, and you know, so we thought, fuck, you know, let's do it, let's get you into it. mobile phone business and and and so if we had stayed put and just focused on one business um uh maybe let's say the record business um let's say record stores, which is one of our previous things um uh we like it better I wouldn't have a business today because you know, the Mega stores, Roads and record stores don't exist anymore because the iPod and free music really put them out of business, and so you know that by going against the rules of you know what you learn in school business um, you know, we're still going strong, you know, 55 years later, um and um, and diversification actually saved us, I mean, as you know, during covid, um, uh, you know Virgin Atlantic and, uh , very badly. hit uh companies uh it was saved by virgin I mean being able to celebrate Galactic shares so um then diversification um is much more exciting um you learn a lot more and it can be useful in times of crisis, of course only a great delegator would be able to diversify without creating too thin an extension per se.

I'm not sure. I guess that goes back to that diversity ability of the Delegation. Your Director told you something that my best friend Urijway told me when he was 18 years old. Man, after I left university, my best friend Joe Ridgeway, from Plymouth, said to me, I remember I was in this curry shop, uh, rushing home, he said: either you're going to be a millionaire or you're going to be in prison now, when I read that this morning, when I was researching your director, it stopped me and my breakfast mid-chewing. I thought, God, now I know why he told me that because he knew there was a certain level of desperation in me and there was a certain cunning that could take me, it could be used for good or bad, when you were doing the student magazine, that prophecy seemed to come true a day when the police raided your magazine and arrested you and I found out.

About this in the documentary series last night, your mother risks her house to get you out of jail and you choose to expand, you choose to expand your way out of the problem, which for you, the men, as they say in the documentary series by opening 30 record stores that year to be able to pay your mother, have you always chosen to expand your way out of trouble? um, yeah, I think I think the answer is yes, um, I mean, I spent a night in prison in those days. I had to pay tax on the records if you send them to Europe, unfortunately with Brexit people will have to do that again, but I stumbled upon the fact that if you crossed the channel and came back. you had a piece of paper that said you had exported the records and therefore you didn't have to pay the tax and um and um uh but uh anyway, so we, we, we, we gave it a bad rap on the knuckles.

I spent I spent a night in prison and I swore I would never ever spend a second night in prison in my life um and uh and yeah, we expanded quickly so we could pay the fine um uh we just needed the billing um and that was it It was actually um uh in actually a really um uh a wonderful reinforcement for the whole Virgin team and uh and um uh and fortunately you know we managed to pay in three years to pay it off um but um, I mean, sometimes We're expanding, uh, uh, expanding just by the joy of learning about something new and, um, and then maybe occasionally, like that time, we're branching out to get out of trouble quickly.

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By then you had many, many companies, many investments and you decided to make this big bet to start an airline. Now a lot is said about why you could tell me in your own words why, it was really because of the frustration of flying in others. People's airlines had bad experiences and they felt like, um, we could, uh, we could do it better, we could do it, it could be more fun, I mean, in those days, uh, you know, if you flew Saber's Shareways, it was a monopoly, um, uh, them. you know it was you, maybe a piece of chicken was thrown in your lap, there was no entertainment, the cabin crew certainly didn't enjoy working for the company and you really felt like you were being herded from A to B in a cattle truck um and um uh and then uh I flew I was flying all over the world um aum uh to uh to visit our record companies because we had record companies for most countries around the world and I felt like we knew we could do better and someone came to us with the idea of ​​a commercial airline um I just didn't think it would be very exciting to run. um and um but I thought of a very very good quality airline for everyone, including business people. um, you know, it would be something special to manage and um uh, so I ended up calling Boeing and um and having a wonderful conversation with a wonderful guy named RJ Wilson and ending it. and to be able to rent him a second-hand 747, um and um, and because you know, I would like to protect the disadvantages, which are obviously important in business, and I made a deal with him where I could return the plane to him at the end of the 12 months, if you know if my instinct was wrong, um and um, but fortunately, at the end of the 12 months, people love flying Virgin Atlantic and we ended up, you know, getting a second and a third plane from Boeing and that it was Yeah, 38 years ago and you know Virgin Atlantic has um uh you know she's like uh she's about the same age as my daughter um uh you know um she's been bullied by the airline British Airways I mean famously through the dirty tricks campaign um uh it was a really difficult time um we took ba to court and won the largest lipo damages in history um uh uh she's had to go through accidents like the 911 disaster um the 2008 disaster and it's the 911 disaster covid um and uh and I'm sure we have it, you know it's cost us more money than we've ever made from it, um uh, but it's been Virgin's flagship, you know, it's allowed us to launch other companies in different countries around the world and the support of the strong brand and the solid reputation that it has had um and uh she is a daughter that I will jealously protect and um uh as long as I can when you look back and see why that business survived considering the first competition considering what British Airways did and was ultimately found guilty in court with its dirty tricks campaigns.

What really caught my attention yesterday was hearing that they had a staff member hack into their customer database, um to write. to see, spy on what you were doing, that you went to court, you won the battle, and that acted as a real boost, I think, for Virgin, because it presented you as a sort of David versus Goliath situation, where you were the underdog, but like If you look back on that journey, a lot of people have fallen in that industry, it's a graveyard, like you say in the documentary, why did Virgin win? What was the brand?

Was it the customer experience? Was it just Grit? I think I think um I think a lot. Getting back to the staff, I mean we've always had a great team of people working at Virgin, they're very proud of the company, um, um, um, uh, we've done things, you know, we've always been at the head of the pack. in new innovations, so, you know, seat back videos, for example, we were the first airline to introduce seat back videos in the world, um, uh, um, uh, you know, flat-bed seats for passengers of business class, um, uh. um, you know, stand-up bars and um, lounges and stuff, um, you know, collecting money at the door, you know, um, for charity, that virgin was the first to do that and how nice they'll do it too all airlines and most airports. this change, so I think you know every little detail.

I think we, the team, have got it right at Virgin, and if you get the small details right, you know, then collectively, you are an exceptional company. about an average company and you know if I'm in a virgin work and I'll do it or in any version of the company I'll have my notebook I'll take notes I'll listen I'll listen to the staff I'll listen to the customers um you know and then act accordingly when I get to the other end and um uh and then get back in touch with the people who gave me the ideas to thank them and tell them what we've done and I think a good leader has to be a good listener um and if you are um uh uh and that's, I think, one of the most important attributes of a good leader.

I grabbed my phone mid-watch the docq series yesterday when You mentioned the seat back videos because at the same time you mentioned how every accountant would tell you not to do a lot of the things you chose to do, but also the banks wouldn't even lend you the money to make the seat. In the later videos, they would give you the money to like two

billion

dollar

s to make the planes, but they wouldn't give you the 10 million to make the backup videos. You've mentioned Instinct a few times as CEO over the years as well. I've had this battle between like instinct and the CFO it seems to tend towards.

I think the quote he said was: "you tend not to consult finance and accounts people when you have these ideas, how have you found that battle between the two between your instinct and your vision and the money people go this won't work this It doesn't make sense I suspect that you're not the entrepreneur and they're the CFO because you're the entrepreneur and they're the CFO so I think you have to believe in your instinct and um and um uh and follow it and if you create something, you know, I mean, we just opened a new hotel in New York, um, you know if it's the best hotel in New York, even if it went over budget on the building, what would it have done, um, uh, the best ever. is successful um uh you know we famous during covid launched a new cruise Line Virgin Voyages um uh you know you know much better than any other cruise line um you know we've had two years in. those of us who have had to multiply the ships, um, but you know we are stuck with that because we know that the quality is such that people will seek it out and the response has been, you know, spectacular.

I mean, it's virgin after virgin and it's absolutely better. In fact, I'm heading there this afternoon. You know, every ship is fascinating. it's got 78 different nationalities working on it you meet 1200 people and they're just the best and it's adults only and it's so much fun and but you know there were times during covid where we thought we definitely chose the It's the wrong business to launch Virgin At its best, what does that mean? What is Virgin at its best? Virgin at its best is when you launch a new company and you know, because you know people have experienced previous Virgin companies, they will give it a try, you don't really even have to advertise.

They know that when they boarded a train version. When we ran the network, it was very good quality. When they boarded a virgin plane, it was high quality when they boarded. at Diversion Health Club it was good quality um and so on um and um so you know that gives us a big advantage with the brand that people have tried they loved it um and so when we launch something new like a cruise line They do it they'll try and we'll make sure we don't let them down and and and and then, you know, having them try out the cruise line if we decide to do a new Venture um, you know, week after week, it's a lot.

It's easier for us to launch it from the back of the cruise line. You are synonymous with Virgin. I don't think I know a person who is so synonymous with their brand as an individual, so when you think of Virgin, you think. of Richard Branson we think Richard Branson you think virgin um and in 1985 you start doing some pretty extreme adventures around the world that become a kind of payment for the brand and give additional meaning to the brand, things like crossing the Atlantic in a ship that sank. It seems that many of the trips you took collapsed, fell from the sky into the sea or the ship sank.

You set so many records during that period. Then you know I was reading about you going 250 miles per hour in a hot air balloon across the Pacific from Japan to the Arctic in Canada again breaking the records existing at the time. This became a real hallmark like that of Richard Branson and Virgin. These extreme adventures were that intentional when you did it. The first one you did was for a marketing reason or was it for the fun of doing it yourself. It started uh uh as a mix of the two, but more like, we had a plane and someone said, do you know why?

Don't we try to bring the Blue Ribbon back to Britain to get the fastest ship across the Atlantic? um and you know we could, we can, we can build this ship um and um uh, but it ended up being much more than just a marketing venture. It became a real adventure, I mean, it was tremendously exciting and, um, I was in my early 30s and, um, uh, and you know, it was difficult, but it was a lot of fun, there were, you know, a lot of moments. of drama, uh, which there always is when you try something that's never been tried before, um, even, as you pointed out, we sing, we sit down before we get to the end, um uh, but um uh, but it's a good series anyway documentary film. um and it's a good book and and and and um and you know, and it put Virgin on the map, it made Virgin a much sexier brand, a more adventurous brand than, for example, the arrival of British Airways, um uh, and and another , other and other brands. um uh, I mean, Virgin Atlantic blatantly took a full page ad when we sank in the Atlantic, the only thing sticking out of the ship Atlantic was the Virgin branding and the ad only had the photo of the ship sticking out of the water and the ad it said next time Richard takes the plane and of course there were people who said you know what you've seen and if you end up in the Atlantic you know no one is going to do it. you want to fly an airline where and of course it's the opposite, it's like that, you know the people, you know, it helped put a small airline on the map and, more effectively than anything else we could do and a lot cheaper.

I mentioned that ad from your competitor there just now, competition is the arch enemy that you know causes you a ton of hassle, but when you look back at the competition you've had in the different industries you've been in, competition really? it made you stronger and better at what you've done, yes, and I think the opposite is also true and that, you know, these big public companies or big government-run companies like British Airways have been made better by having Virgin Atlantic. innovating and you know they have to catch up over the years and I think British Airways is a better company today than it was, you know, 38 years ago when we started, so competition is good for all of us, big and small ones. and um and the only role that governments should play is to intervene when there is unfair competition um and that is one of the most important roles that the government can play um is to make sure that they put laws in place that encourage competition and don't stifle competition and, and You know, we've had, yeah, anyway, books have been written about companies that have tried to stifle Virgin in the past, but somehow, some way, we did it, now there's this moment called personal branding, which is has become very popular mainly because of social media and because everyone has a channel and can build a following and can try to tell the world who is using their company on social media, but you were the first CEO personal brand for many people because everything he did added value to the brand and it wasn't just what Virgin said.

I think when I look at your story it teaches me that the brand is what the people do and what the founder does becomes the brand more than ever and I think that's a lot of times we lose sight of it and some of the best brands in the world As the Red Bulls of the world have realized that the things you do say a lot more about the brand than you say, yes, and you are the perfect example of that. In the early '90s you were struggling due to the general economy and ended up selling your record business from all accounts and when speaking to some members of your current team they told you that this was a very difficult time for you.

It was crushing, I think the quote that was told to me is that accurate and why was it crushing oh look, I think that uh um if you think about your if you think about um uh the things that you create as children that um, which I do and I would think about it. so because it's just a group of people um and I mean, you know your business is yourself and a group of people um, if you sell it, it's a light sale, you know if selling a company is like selling a group of children and that it's um that's difficult in every way um I needed uh I needed a war chest to combat British Airways and and and and the dirty tricks that were um uh had been thrown at Virgin and um, and you know, you know, the war chest, um , what I thought I could take better advantage of was Virgin Records, um, the good thing is you know the Virgin Records staff, you know, still had a job, but, um, working for another company and the Virgin Atlantic staff were safe because we had the financial clout to deal with our competitor so you know obviously there are times in life when you have to make tough decisions like that and um uh and uh and yeah, but and go ahead and move on, do you regret How did that happen in that phase?

Um, I got it. I always think that if someone asked me if I ever regretted anything, I would be a very sad person to answer you answered positively because you know I've had the most extraordinary life um it's been full of interesting twists and turns um uhand honestly you can't think of anything that I regret you know in the past um they um and I think I really think I would be a sad person if I regretted I mean it's just been uh uh rich with Rich with um uh you know adventure and uh and and people and and and I'm not one to look back and in general I mean, obviously, an interview like this I will do, but um uh and I guess I've gotten to an age where you know it's important to write books and it's important to make documentaries. and you know, because it is important not to waste your life and and and it is important to share what you have learned how you felt yesterday watching the series um docu about your life.

He was sitting right behind you so he could watch. I was looking at the screen and watching your reaction and seeing you laugh sometimes um, I was emotionally drained to be honest um, I mean, after the after party and I couldn't really understand my words. the first half hour um uh, you know, I found it quite, you know, quite exhausting um, I mean, he's incredible, uh, a really good documentary filmmaker and Chris Smith is one of the best in the world. I mean, you know, Prides himself. about their independence, which I completely respect and so you know we don't participate in it, um, you know, obviously, so not everything that one is going to agree with and not everything that you know in my brain.

It would be exactly as it is. it was but you know 95 96 it was it was the way I see it and but but but what's incredible was the footage that they managed to find um you know, considering that we had had my main house but it collapsed and my main house was torn down in a hurricane, double the fact that anything survived to be able to make a documentary series that is so, you know, so complete, you know, really very exciting. I think a docu-series was, you know, I have to take my hat off to them and then last night, while watching the last episode of the docuseries, I saw you once again in typical Richard Branson style.

Set a new frontier that was space, as if you knew, as if everything you had done before was not like that. It's not enough that you decided to shoot for the stars, why, then, I remember many, many, many years ago, when President Gorbachev was the leader of Russia and he was trying to bring peristoca and bring a striker to the west and try to put an end to peace. signature um he invited me to come to Russia to be the first person to get on a Russian spaceship um but it would have meant a big check um you know 60 million would have meant um a year um learning Russian and being in Russia and I just didn't have the time and already the extra money to do something like that, but it made me think, you know, that's an excessive amount of money to charge someone to go to space, you know, for that kind of money, but why couldn't they just start building a spaceship um and um and then we registered Virgin Galactic Airways and um and I were set up where it went around the world trying to see if we could find someone to build us a spaceship and um and then I found this genius but come back you know to me um you know I've always dreamed of going to space one day um I think that 50 of the people who listen to this program will have dreamed or will dream of going to space 50 will think that you know why on Earth you would want to do that um but um you know which was the most extraordinary day of my life um my trip to space and uh and uh and you I know looking back at this beautiful beautiful Earth that we live on was um uh from space as I was floating uh um in, ya you know, while floating with a lovely group of people um uh just an extraordinary experience and um uh and to be honest Yeah, to pinch yourself, pinch yourself, pinch yourself, time to do it in a spaceship that we built and uh um and um uh and uh yeah, so it was a dream come true in that documentary, we also remember the cost of it all. of these Endeavors at a time when there is a photo of you taking a phone call at home and learning that in the period before pristine galaxies go into space for the first time, an astronaut had died in one of the tests, It is a very emotional scene. but it's a reminder of the cost of these great efforts to humanity that day when you get that phone call and then rush to the site, what's on your mind, so it's happened to me twice in my life. um uh you know one time I was in a movie theater in um uh in Europe uh with my kids and I my phone kept vibrating and I ignored it and I ignored it and then for the third or fourth time I decided to walk I walked out of the movie theater and I checked it um and one of our trains had gone off the track and um uh and you know right away I knew you know um I just had to get to the accident scene and you know there were no flights that night so we had to drive all night um and then yeah and and uh and then anyway we got there early in the morning the next day a lady had died and you know and I went I went to the morgue to meet the relatives and, you know, we gave each other a hug, a hug and um, uh, and um, I mean, luckily it turned out that it wasn't actually a virgin's fault, but, you know, you're obviously still responsible for um. the fact that it was on a virgin train um and um and uh and then you have to, as an owner, um you know, confront, talk to the press and and and and but I think the fact that you do the fact that you do make an effort and getting there quickly, uh, is very important and the same thing when we lost a test spacecraft, I knew right away, based on my previous experience with the train, that I needed to be there as quickly as possible.

Is there a conversation about? discontinuing Virgin Galactic at that time after losing that life, yeah, there was, I mean, you know, I sat down with George Whiteside and just said, you know, it's, you know, we asked our sales questions, is it worth it, is it worth it, You know, it's worth it. continuing what what would happen if we had a second accident um uh you know we would never be forgiven I mean you would know it would be um our reputation would be destroyed um um uh um but then we talked to all the engineers and um we talked to a lot of the people who had signed up to go to space and we talked to the family and um from um uh from the pilot who had lost and with one voice they said you know you just have to continue um uh and um uh and we did and uh we're still you know we're still um you know what we're still in the early stage of space travel and there are still risks, I mean we think that um, you know not, um, you know, we think we've overcome all the big risks, you know we have we can automatically shut down an engine if you know if something goes wrong with the rocket motor. alone and we have astronauts flying flying our ship um but it's the early stages and um but um but I think everyone involved is doing it with their eyes open, one of the most Um, beautiful heartbreaking scenes of the Ducky series are in 2021, when you're months away from your first space flight in your own spaceship, spaceship, spaceplane, whatever the terminology is, you named it after your mother, you named it. mother ship after Eva and then, tragically, she passes away from Covid before she had the opportunity to embark on that space trip with you that she was planning to do in that phase of your life when you lose your mother, when you lose Eva, do you? what impact does that have? about you and your mission and I mean, first of all, she had lived a long and extraordinary life and so it was um uh yeah uh and I mean, you know I was very, very lucky in our family, we were very lucky to have had her. around for so long um and um uh and the last thing she would have wanted was for the mission or any mission to be delayed um as a result of her death.

I mean, you know, she, she, uh, you. I know if there's a star up there, she'll be in it and I'm sure she was there and there in spirit when I went to space and she definitely would have been smiling, smiling down and down. us with my dad Ted um and um uh so uh yeah and so I think when we lose our loved ones, we're you, you know, you live, you live through your parents and you know, and your children continue to live through you and and your grandchildren live on through your children and uh, and you know that's the kind of wonder, the wonders of life and when you got off that space flight, um, that's detailed in your second memoir in kind of an updated version that just updated you wrote a letter to your mother after coming down from space you said dear mom you always told me to reach for the stars well i took my own winding path but i always knew when to follow your example you always pushed us to our limits you were always a dreamer, You urged me to strive for every opportunity I saw, you told me to chase my wildest fantasies to live life to the fullest, how you lived, how you loved and how we missed you, yeah, I mean, she, um, you know, I think, uh. uh, yeah, hopefully, um, yeah, when people read the book they think about their own moms and dads and and and and you know how lucky we are to have moms and dads who sacrifice so much for us and um and like. as we are as we are as we grow up and then obviously later in life, you can, you could, you can give, you know, give it back and take care of them as they get a little bit older, the docu-series was a little bit of punched in the face from the beginning because, because of that opening scene about your family, where you're sitting before your trip to space trying to say a few words to Holly Sam and Joan, your wonderful wife and your kids, just in case You're never coming back from space.

This is something you have done over and over again before embarking on these journeys. Really, really hard to watch, really hard to watch. And it took me by surprise because it was so early in the movie. Why are those words so difficult to say? Otherwise, you seem like such a composed individual, but when it comes to those words, it seems like you know several takes, you get up, you walk away, you come back, you walk away and I came back so um, first of all, I do uh um, I cried in happy movies, I cry in sad movies, my kids bring a box of tissues when we go to the movies or we used to um and uh, so like I'm um. uh you know even now just talking to you I can feel tears in my eyes so um so um uh so it's not surprising to me that suddenly uh I can't finish my sentence sometimes um but obviously see if you're uh if you're reading um if you are if you are if you are talking about like you have died for um you know for your children and your grandchildren and yes, many emotions go through your head when you say speak.

I suspect even my God's emotions should be. you should know if it's worth it and a lot of this docu-series wonders if it's selfish. it's worth it it's it's it's it's it's it's it's something um uh it's something that one should be doing um I remember um I was in I was taking off to cross the Pacific in a hot air balloon and getting into this truck and um Jen third Kettle of ITN was finishing editing my obituary um in case I didn't come back and she said you know Richard do you want to sit down and watch the obituary um and I said why not and Um and you know I sat down and looked at the obituary and again I had a couple of tears in my eyes at the end, but um, but um, you know, I think in life, well, you know one of the advantages of doing these adventures is you.

Face the ultimate inevitability of um you know you're not going to be here forever and then you think about uh you know if I left everything in order um you know what I'm going to tell my children what I'm going to do I'm going to tell my grandchildren that many people They don't get that chance because they die suddenly, so, you know, I've written quite a few letters over the years, thinking I may not come back from this adventure. or that Adventure, the documentary also sheds light on Joan, who has clearly been this big rock in your life over the years.

She is a strong, tenacious, honest, very, very direct woman. Wonderful woman, what does it mean to you and what has it meant to you. you for the last 40 50 years oh um well I was lucky enough to meet her 45 years ago in a recording studio um uh called The Manor uh I walked into the kitchen and I looked across the room and she was the most beautiful creature that I. I had seen it in my life and it was an instant love on my part towards her and it took me a while to reverse but she is just a fantastic crystal region down to earth um she doesn't suffer fools gladly um completely opposite to me um you I know he doesn't play tennis, he doesn't run, he doesn't ski, he doesn't climb mountains.

You know she doesn't go on adventures, but you know she's the most fantastic mother to Holly and Sam and her grandkids, um and um, uh. and she knows what matters in life um so you know, I mean the uh in the end I guess what matters is that you know the love that you can give to your children um uh the food on the table and uh um yeah, but or above all. just unreserved love to everyone around her and and and uh and everything else is um uh it's kind of icing on the cake you're a man synonymous with living a life worth living one of the quotes from the movie was about you know not to live a life that is full of risks is not to live at all words to that effect if I were Sam or Holly, your children and I asked you, I said dad, what is a life worth living?

What would you tell me? just think about, first of all, fulfilling their own dreams, I mean, not letting their father or mother pressure them into things that they don't want to do so you know, I was lucky with my my daughter wanted to be a doctor and she did the medicineshe became a doctor now she helps with this with our foundation um my son um wanted to make movies and and uh and he's a musician basically, which is his main love and he and he do a little bit of both um they're both fantastic parents and they find time for each other. grandchildren um so I think just to um you know continue follow follow whatever dream you have to the best of your ability um and um uh and yeah and you know we've been lucky that our children have children have um I think they found they found their way in In life we ​​have a final tradition in this podcast where the last last guest asks a question for the next guest without knowing who he is asking it for.

The question you are left with is where you were when you felt most vulnerable and why I think I felt the most. vulnerable um relatively recently um during the uh about six weeks of covid um when uh everything that we had built uh seemed like it was collapsing um uh and uh and interestingly when uh the kind of British press instead of being really supported really really became against us um uh and uh and fortunately, you know, my children and grandchildren and they all arrived um um at about the same time and uh and the team just got to work and worked very hard day and night to make sure that we kept so many jobs. as safe as possible and um uh and uh and I think pretty well all versions of the company got through it and pretty well all of every employee's job was protected um but that was maybe the hardest moment in the hardest moment of my life. , you already know. suddenly it seemed like it was one for your reputation and everything else went out the window, but covid was difficult for so many people and um um but um yeah, but um, we've held it back to Holly and several members of your reference of the team that it is your most difficult moment, but the word tough is just a word if I walked up and if I was there, what would there be and if I were you, what would I have seen and what would I have felt when you said the word tough? well, I think I think that um, I've never understood depression um uh and I and I think I understood it's like you know where people get depressed from after that experience um and it was good, you know, it's good to understand, you know.

It's good to have gone through this a little bit, I mean, it didn't last long because, you know, I was raised by parents who, you know, went through World War II and you couldn't waste your time. The one time you know getting depressed you know they're a lot worse things than being depressed, um, but anyway it took teaching me to understand it, which I hope will make me understand other people's depression better in the years to come, which ones? were the symptoms? Of that, ah, what were the symptoms? It's very difficult to identify the symptoms, but you know, look, you just feel really sorry for yourself for a day or two and then you just have to pick yourself up and get yourself together.

I know my mom, my mom would have done it if she had been alive and what it was, but I mean, if I had talked to her about it, she would have told me to pull myself together and just and and go back to work and uh and um and I think In two or three days you know her, her words would have been playing in my head and I would have gotten over it and I got over it, but you know you tried it anyway, Richard, so Richard Branson, thank you. so much for your time um I you for me you when I started this podcast you were the name you were the name that if one day I could talk on this podcast I think we might as well pack it up and be done because For me, as an entrepreneur, my whole life you've always been the north star of entrepreneurs, you have represented and embodied what it is to be an entrepreneur who strives to create better in everything he does.

I had the pleasure of researching your story again. I am now 30 years old and it has been a tremendous source of inspiration for me. Meeting you today to be able to come and watch your docuseries is one of the highlights of my entire career and business life and definitely this podcast, so thank you very much. a lot for that because I'm not sure you'll ever really appreciate the impact you have on people like me so I want to make sure that everything I have here for you I have a chance to tell you and I want to thank you for that because you've definitely changed my life and I know I'm not the only person so thank you, your book is amazing, the docu-series was so captivating that I stayed up until 3am and last night I made sure.

I watched the whole thing and then I rewatched the last episode this morning and I implore everyone to go and watch it now on HBO, but yeah, the most important thing is I just wanted to say thank you, thank you again and yeah. Many, many congratulations on all you have achieved and everything, and for being a young bastard or you will make it in the years to come, thank you Richard Quick, one of our oldest hero sponsors. I can't tell you about the last one, he would say. In the last few years, it's really been about two and a half years, it was really post-pandemic how much my health has become a huge priority in my life and I have this laser focused on what I'm putting in my body, it's funny because As you get older, you may start to feel more and more of the things you're putting in your body.

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