Nismo Z vs Dark Horse Mustang and GR Supra - The Dying Breed | Everyday Driver

these cars are a

dying

breed

, you know, front engine rear wheel drive sports cars, this is no longer a common part of the market, options are really dwindling, the Camaro is

dying

, the Challenger will be gone after they are done with 4500 different specials. editions, all three are automatic transmissions, all three have 19-inch wheels right in the high-50s and low-$60,000 range and all three are motorsports derivatives, so the Nismo Z could be the 400 Z. There are a lot of debate about that, but all I know is I can't believe this exists at all and Ford has come out with this new Mustang, the Dark Horse, the one above the GT, which actually fits the character of the Mustang very well. , so I find it interesting that both this new Mustang and the new Z are not new, they are both built on a chassis overhaul before maintaining the car, but it shows how difficult it is to justify making cars like this.

The gr Supra had to be here. Toyota brought this back in collaboration with BMW, as you know and some of you were writing right now, we didn't even bring a Toyota, we just brought a BMW product, can't we just have nice things and celebrate the fact that this car exists ? The su has been presented that many other things would have appeared that made the Supra feel old and irrelevant and that neither of them are real Great cars Great roads and all the reasons why we love driving road trips comparisons test drives and podcasts this is the

everyday

driver

Supra was always the natural competitor to the Z and since the Mustang EX existed in a world where all its competition remains, the price of the Supra can now be compared to the Mustang.

BMW. Toyota doesn't care who makes it. $558,000 worth of sports is worth having. The car isn't perfect, it has its problems, but I can't believe this car exists and it's actually that fun. It is an excellent sports car. BMW has always treated the power output of its engine correctly and this 2021 was the one that changed the power. from about 355 to 382, ​​that's significant, this car moves absolutely technically, this Supra has the least power of these three, but the Dino comparisons have put this Supra pretty close to the Nissan, it's very easy to access the power in this Supra, in fact, this is the one. that one seems to be the most ready to go it responds best to part throttle much more than the other two takes off like someone pushed it honestly it's a little chihuahua of a car ready to bite your heels and be like what do you want to do?

I'm excited today about the

everyday

driver

. The

supra

is like a chihuahua. I don't know how we ended up there either. That's how it feels in this group. I love this inline six, it has 8 speeds. automatic that shifts well, it's acceptable, it's just not dual clutch, you can argue that automatic transmissions just annoy you and that these sports cars are invalid because they are automatic, you know it doesn't depend on driving experience, it's just that the Manuals add a new level that automatics can never have. This ZF 8 speed transmission is good but this car was significantly improved by the time Toyota finally released a manual transmission version which is meaningless in this comparison since the other two are automatic and only the Z. comes that way , the super manual is an absolute case study in the fact that an already good car can be made more fun by adding a good manual transmission.

The Z was already fast, but Nissan has increased the power to 420

horse

power, or 420,384 lb-ft. of torque this car is anything but dazed and confused the power is amazing the standard zc car is good speed wise power wise didn't feel good this should really get a power boost it's minimal here it's got about 20

horse

power 34 lb-ft of torque isn't much, you don't need more power than that, don't you. I mean, you can have more power, but on a road like this, you probably aren't going to use it. I'm not complaining about the power, you know? It actually sounds pretty good too, it's a great howler and I'll be honest, if you hang out at high RPMs on the Z it gets a little boring, a little annoying, that's a bit much for a diary, but it's okay, you bought one aggressive track.

Tuned car point if you want the Nismo and you get this transmission, which is a nine-speed. I am concerned that the 9 speed dual clutch automatics have proven to be ideal for track use and that is the approach of This, from Nissan's perspective, let's just do the automatic. The Lesser Z comes with this untuned 9-speed transmission as well and a manual transmission. Why not make it available in this superior? Well, it's because they think the only thing people care about is lap times. I'm not sure that's true but that's okay, it doesn't shift as fast as a dual clutch, but it certainly shifts faster than the automatic in the base car, half a second faster and this transmission works great, but then when you go to Sport Plus, this is now your chance to let the car think, it's thinking right, it's gotten me almost to the Red Line, I kind of knew it was tuned like a dual clutch, that's very good news, is that the transmission she does it for herself, she is actually doing something.

Decent options if I was here to drive hard or if I was driving on a track, I would still prefer to choose for myself. I'd rather do it with this weird stick-moving device and an extra pedal, but we all seem to believe in this childish style. So good, if you get a better number then it must be better, no, not really. I mean, faster may be more fun, but it's not a guarantee. I want to use the manual, but if you're focused on the track, manuals are slower despite rev matching, ooh, look. that the car is really good now and just an automatic transmission allows you to be faster, that's what Nissan Motorsports is all about, the engine is getting a lot of press in this Dark Horse because it has now reached 500 horsepower, it doesn't put much in until the wheels, but 500 horsepower is really just a small bump from where the Mach 1 was, so when you get in and hit the start button, the Steed wakes up and breathes fresh air through those nostrils into the bodies of twin acceleration. the rains and you sink your spurs into the accelerator pedal, it's okay, I can't do more, they have taken the GT engine, this coyote engine now has 500 horsepower and 418 lb-ft of torque because it is the only car naturally aspirated here. that means it feels a little underpowered, like those numbers aren't as quietly advertised because it has to increase its power, but it increases throughout the Rev band, it never really drops, it goes up until it gets to that . 7500 RPM redline and it feels like it's pulling all the time, this car sounds like it's going 100 mph at 3,000 RPM, you know what's interesting to me is that the Mustang is always associated with sound, yeah , that's good, I like it, that's just satisfying.

Despite the gearbox it's just a satisfying engine to listen to and it's wonderful to just rev it up to the redline, of course this would be more fun in a manual but the Nismo only comes in automatic so we gave it a try . to level the playing field a little bit, unfortunately that means that the Ford is stuck with this, this Ford 10 speed. Now you could say it's not a pure Mustang without a manual transmission and this one has the 10 speed automatic, it's tuned differently than GM. I did it and I want more of this. I'm in sport mode and it seems like it's waiting for something.

I want this to be more responsive and it just isn't. Why doesn't it work better in automatic mode? Honestly, that's how it is. I'll probably go there. I'll let the car think for itself, of course, even in sport modes. Look, it's going to run in high gears. It responds strangely, often much slower than you want. Many times with partial acceleration. Shifting is a long drag and feels like you're trying to pick a gear and find one or maybe shift it into reverse before engaging it. Everyone knows that you are faster on the track with a pdk or an automatic, but not with this one.

I need to downshift without thinking because here's this brilliant engine and every time I want instant gear changes, it's not like that. You can't get this Dark Horse with the trimic manual, which was the same manual transmission that came in the Mach 1, which is really the gearbox you want this winter or any time your car is going to be sitting still, you need a battery charger to make sure your car starts the first time every time and keep your battery in good condition at all times with one or several car bank chargers from every era and all types of batteries start with confidence, that's why We partnered with Battery tender.

I appreciate what Ford is doing in its commitment to the Mustang the Dark Horse, although I feel it is the best representative of what the Mustang is despite the price, but I am struggling with the weight and handling even though I have gotten it Magna mount on this car and that is standard on all Darkhorse versions. This is old school thinking, it's still a muscle car with modern components, modern suspension that's making the Muscle Car thing beat what the Muscle Car feel is doing. It has the sharpest turn-in of any Mustang I've ever driven. The front end of this one despite having that 5L V8 feels lighter and turns in sharper and faster than any Mustang I have driven now, part of that is the fact that they have actually tightened the steering rack which used to be about 16 1/2 to 1, this is 15 1/2 to 1 and I noticed it as soon as I drove this car, but there is a Counterpoint, this is actually the worst electronic power steering system I have ever driven in a modern sports car.

There is absolutely no information. I've hit BMW and others before for not having information on electronic power steering. This is worse than all. I don't feel anything in the corner there's nothing here it's not like there's just a little bit of steering feel I don't feel anything there's no tire information I'm having a conversation with someone on Zoom and now they're silent this car is not equipped with a handling package the handling package adds $5,000 to this car and we are already talking about 70 thousand dollars mainly the handling package is wheels and tires this car uses 255 in the front and 75 in the rear but the handling package moves up to 305 front and 315 rear on plli tropo rs without the wide tires and extra stiff suspension handling I don't care on a back road I won't come back here to do this this should really be stiffer that's not my problem With this car, The handling package wouldn't change my main conclusions about this car, which are where the steering feel goes and why it's so great.

I thought the Z was heavy until this came out and I recalibrated what it means. Being a modern sports car, it's sure to hold its own in a corner, but it doesn't have that lightweight sports car feel that I know both Todd and I are looking for and that's what keeps me from loving the Mustang of the three cars here. This feels huge now it's very agile, but it weighs 4,000 lbs now 4,000 lbs and this is offset by all this technology and the fact that it has a cooler for all the transmission oil, you name it, there's a cooler here to keep this. great on track massive brakes huge everything not surprising it weighs 4,000 lbs and then I walk away and ask why it weighs 4,000 lbs which is a huge amount of weight for a sports car but that's where we are in modern times so I feel like this leaves the Mustang on a strange footing in either camp, it's a bit of a muscle car and it's a bit of a sports car and it's trying to be all things to all people, it's the blessing and the curse of the Mustang.

I'm also interested in these brakes because they are very good, no they are more than very good, but there is just a beat between the moment you brake hard and the moment the brakes really take hold, there is just a slight beat , but then they are so good that you are not going to think that a car this heavy can slow down so quickly the more I drive it, the more it reminds me of the current M2. Now, when we drive the Mustang Mach 1, we compare it to the BMW M4 because they were surprisingly similar to the M2.

Even heavier, this starts to look a lot like that similar screen architecture, similar instant steering wheel dive, the front end just dives wherever you point it, however also, like the BMW, there's really no sense of direction to talk about, so we've silenced everything and chased. BMW I'm not sure it was a Target Mustang, maybe we'll put them together and talk about that. I'd also be curious to see how it feels compared to the outgoing Camaro SS because, again, if you get the automatic, I share the gearbox, but the SS feels a little smaller than this one despite being just a tiny bit larger.light, but in this car I don't feel the great handling goodness that I have in other versions of the Mustang, it doesn't distinguish this car by For me, it is doing well, but I know that the other two Japanese competitors are nodding their heads and saying that bring all these cars.

The weight is in our minds. Weight is the enemy. It's always been the enemy of sports car driving and racing, so it's surprising. When Nissan made the Nismo heavier than the base models of the Z, the Nismo weighs 3700 lbs and I feel like Nissan has created the magic trick that BMW does. The heavier car feels light to drive. It feels like the complete new ZC car. It feels like the one they released before this, they weren't quite finished, they needed more time, it wasn't quite finished, but the deadline came so we had to submit some kind of project and we'll get whatever grade we get.

It wasn't good enough and the car wasn't good enough, this car shouldn't weigh that much. That's disappointing and I'm sure the track would magnify it even more, but on a Canyon Road like this I'm impressed. This change in dynamics is better than I thought it was going to be because they changed almost the entire suspension setup. It has more aggressive bushings, it has more aggressive shocks, it has a stiffer suspension setup, all the springs are stiffer and that's why this car feels so different and so much better. Nissan has put a lot of effort into making this car very track friendly and track ready.

I'm so mixed because weight is the enemy series of curves weight change is the most telling for sports cars I'm still driving a little harder in this car than the last time I went down this road. I've already hit a g on my meter here in both directions and I'm actually talking mostly to you. I don't even set out to try to find, hey, let's see how high we can get the G meter. I'm already at a g both ways. There is no adaptive suspension on this, the problem is that it makes it too harsh for normal driving, that's how this car should be driven, it's not too demanding on a day to day basis, it's stiffer than standard and if you live in an area with terrible roads, You may hate me for saying that, but if you're buying a sports car, let it feel like a sports car, this doesn't seem like a punishment, except for some of the worst roads I've driven it on in the week that we carry.

If there was, this is a really satisfying and confidence-inspiring car to drive quickly on a back road or slowly in traffic. You can do both. To be honest, there are a lot of bragging rights involved with driving the Motorsports version of any sports car, but when going up Canyon Road, anything smooth, this is much better than the ride quality would suggest. I know for Nissan this is set up as the track tuned version, but the truth is this is just a version, this is exactly what the Z should be, don't do it. buy another one, the problem is now you are spending 70 grand and you are left with only one car, plus you add 15 inch brakes to any car and hit the brakes hard and you will get sick, this car rushes from a way I wasn't expecting it to be planted, the other Z had a lot of body roll, this stays pretty flat and is just such a progressive application of the H steering.

I get the feeling the wheels are turning down somewhere related to what I do here. I don't feel like this is just making the Declaration and somewhere a computer decided that this feels like it's connected. This is what I wanted the new Z to feel like. This is the car I was waiting for if you are going to use it. 370 chassis should feel like this when you drive it and refine it further and the nmo does that. I am impressed with this car and I didn't think it would be like this. This is what the Z should have been like when it came back this has a surprising amount of agility interaction that's where this Z has been hiding apparently underneath the Nismo badge that's where it's been hiding gr Supra it's amazing to feel this car so soon as you notice the difference in a short and lighter wheelbase the weight is so refreshing it's like jumping into a cold pool the difference is so stark driving the Supra close to the Mustang makes it feel like a 20lb car the super quick cornering on the 700 lb weight difference means this car just feels light and tiny and it's neither, but compared to the other two, this is the lightest and cheapest car here.

I feel a lot more through the nose of this car. I feel more about what the road does and this isn't even the one that has the The best steering feel, one of the things that makes this fun initially, is also a disadvantage compared to the Z, and that is that it has a BMW style steering adjustment and what I mean is that most modern BMWs lunge into the corner like a dog seeing a squirrel. like in the corner, oh my gosh, the problem with that is this car ends up feeling a little nervous. I'm really surprised because I thought this super would end up actually feeling sharper and better than the Z and even though it dives faster, just a little bit.

The movements of the steering wheel really change the attitude of this car. He never feels so planted. This Supra doesn't inspire as much confidence as the Z. For the most part, the Mustang is a better all-rounder. It has a longer wheelbase. It's going to be a lot. more comfortable for road trips 97.2 in the Supra 100 inches in the Nismo and 107 10 inches longer in the Mustang. I feel like I'm looking at the same part of the hood on the Supra as I am on the Mustang, but the feeling of being out of the front end is completely different, that front end is so light that it requires smooth movements because a hard entry into a corner will really disturb this car because it will lunge into the corner a lot more than I expected as this car is on its toes and a little twitchy and that can be really fun and engaging when you're into any kind of fun back road driving.

It's very easy when we're at a sports car level like this to just look at the numbers and try to claim which car is better based on the numbers alone and I feel like, in any car comparison, this one goes back to where we started the program, we found out he was an everyday driver and it's you can't drive a spec sheet, you can't throw numbers at me and tell me. Which car is better? The Supra has been with us for over 3 years. There are a lot of people who didn't like it and it's gotten worse for them, but I think it's aged very well and the surfaces still look modern and interesting.

It still looks like a high-performance sports car. It's small in proportion, but the surfaces actually swell to make it look more substantial than the size of the car. This is not a big car. It's pretty easy to hit the doorstep here. It's a little difficult to see out of the way - visibility here has never been very good. The rear window is not so good. Storage is not fantastic. It has the typical sacrifices you expect when buying a sports car, but once you're in. feels right feels like a smaller, lighter sports car this is my favorite instrument panel because it feels like a combination of anog and digital panel even though it is mostly digital backed it has the plague of screen seizures Do we need big screens? little reading down here.

It's small enough that I thought it might disappear when Nissan launched the new Z. It looked like it was unfinished in the Styling department and the Nismo fixed that too. There is a new front and rear pH and side. The skirts and those changes alone seem to have cleaned up this design and made it much more coherent and with a look of its own that feels much better. The proportion of the nose has changed the balance and made the car look better. Every part of the car is focused on aerodynamics. you can see the canards, you can see the Rockers, look at the three piece spoiler, this is actually my favorite interior of these three just because it looks like we didn't build it around screens first, which is something I really appreciate, you get a instrument.

The panel up here has a digital display, but it still has a hood over it. This seems very old school to me now, because the essence of this is 20 years old when no one put that many screens in a car, so they had to adapt. but they've done a good job of taking the 370Z's interior and making it feel more modern. These seats are an upgrade from the Lesser Z and are wonderful. They are rich seats, but you know, they are comfortable to drive hard, but They are comfortable to drive I love the rare manuals These are really good and being manual means they can be much thinner Look how thin these seats are Look how good they are I like the manual parking brake I like the window switches I like it more here and I like the size of the paddles on the nmo, anything in this interior that is piano black feels cheap, everything else around it it really feels good.

I like the HVAC knobs which are actually carried over from the 370, they are nice, the paddles feel great. the steering wheel is good you gained more Alcantara some things to make it look like you spent 70 grand but the truth is this is not a $70,000 interior knowing this car has 500 horsepower the surfaces seem to make sense there is a lot of visual weight and mass in this car the headlights are more distinctive. I like the grill now it has the Dark Horse appearance package and it has the stripes and it says Dark Horse on the hood here the wheel design is interesting and great but the most important thing about this car is the paint we never talked about of paint, we mentioned the color, but this paint color is called Blue Ember and it has metallic flakes that you can only see in sunlight and it's actually spectacular if we talk about the interior.

Samsung has been here and they have installed a television screen very similar to the one we found in the recent BMW M2, where it looks as if it were a home screen in small indentations, there is no longer a hood over the instrument panel, it is a screen and this has become a hallmark feature of all car manufacturers and it's actually big enough without overpowering the cabin now it does a lot of things it looks great it's quite clever I can't believe I'm going to do this. I can go here to the custom mode custom topic and I can go to the Fox body gauges.

I've read a lot of reviews where people have said that what they like most about this car is the Fox body gauges, which don't They should be your favorites. There's a lot more going on with this car. I don't understand how that's a selling point, but okay, how about remote revs? You can stand there in the cafeteria and in the parking lot. I just want it to be good to drive too. It has weird seats like the Nismo Z, but they're too thick, they're too big. I like the seats in the Z much better. They look good but are also very comfortable.

They are not those seats that are only from those track Focuses. They're not comfortable, they're actually surprisingly comfortable. I wonder if the seats here were much thinner. Designers would suddenly realize that the interior is too big. Doesn't it entertain us? Automakers are building sports cars, but they're not just taking their racing programs and deriving these models that we can buy, that's great news, that's a great point. I can't believe they exist. I mean, if you think about all the cars that are going to disappear and you think about the fact that all of them. someone wants to make is a 5-seat silver electric CUV.

These are nice to have even if two of them are white, what's crazy is that the gr Supra is kind of the old man of the bunch, yeah it's a little strange to think about. It's weird, it's not that old, but it still competes and I love that the Mustang is back in its 7th generation and I love that Nissan created the Nismo version. I'll be completely honest, I was worried that the Nismo after hearing the weight and the numbers, wasn't going to be good to drive, but I drove it and I thought it's better than I ever thought, it's better than it deserves to be, it's the Z what I wanted the Z to be when we originally drove it, we drove the base version, the non-

nismo

version.

I just thought this is not the car I wanted. I got into the Nismo and thought this is the car. This is the car every Z should be. You've heard me talk about that. Now it should. have a manual maybe there is hope maybe there is hope because the

supra

started out as just an automatic and eventually it turned out well we will give it a manual that made the car even better this is not the manual supra but it exists and made it better so maybe on Nissan's list maybe there is a manual because that would be nice.

I think you and I will agree that weight is the dividing line for these three cars, wheelbase almost doesn't matter, engine power doesn't matter. what matters most is the weight and it was revealed as soon as I jumped back into the gr Supra so your first car is your carnumber one, the gr super is my number one car, really yes, that's interesting because i have given it. Four stars in many reviews is a four star car is better than the internet says. Yes, it's incredibly fun, but I have to say that I give the Nismo first place because it's exactly the car I expected.

I Did It has come so far ahead of the other one that I have to give it four stars and number one here, if you only did the manual you would nail it right, so I have to give it first place even though it is too heavy. but it carries its weight so well it drives it drives everything I wanted to honestly I kept driving this is just amazing so the Z is one the super is two and while I like it it's heavy and has no steering. You don't feel anything, you noticed, it's the emptiest steering wheel ever, so I'm sorry, but it's really cool, but it's three and a half stars and on the third look, I really appreciate the Mustang.

I've always liked Mustangs and I love what Ford is doing, as I keep saying, but this is also a car that comes in third place for me, although it's really impressive and sounds good. I mean any car here, better power, better engine. Yeah, I just want something lighter. I want something more involving. But you know we all win, right, we all win, they're all here, so gold star, are we doing gold star? No, we are not a gold star for everyone. Trophies, one of them is suitable for you. Presidential, vice president, let's not get into politics.

We were doing very well. I feel like Toyota got rid of their Supra history when building this GR. I feel like their collaboration with BMW and this new chassis freed them up to do something brilliant. There is no doubt that this is my home. This is the one I want every time I drive this I realize I don't care who made it I don't care what the badge is none of that is important this is a great car, fast, agile and fun to drive the other cars are $10,000 more expensive than this and it doesn't feel $10,000 more fun.

Awesome car, it's a party trick, the power is absolutely undeniable and it's for this reason that it's not just sound, it's naturally aspirated power, the reason this V8 can never go away, but I need more from my car Sporty, it comes in third place, but not because it's bad, it handles very well, it's attractive and fun to drive, there's no doubt about it, but the steering has completely left the conversation, clearly Nissan has worked on the brakes. suspension, chassis tuning, but the precision of the Z is so high. I didn't expect this car to be so good.

I want to like it more and it's not the manual transmission that would change things for me, it's the weight, this is the finished product. than the Z was supposed to be, I feel like the other one doesn't, this one does, I like this car a lot more than I expected. It's satisfying, it's fun, it's well made, this is what happens when you take an older chassis and do it right very impressed