Larry Bird and Bill Laimbeer have genuinely hated each other for over 30 years

-If you know anything about Larry Bird's relationship with Bill Laimbeer, it's probably this incident from 1987 when Laimbeer fouled Bird hard, and Bird threw a basketball at him. That was a highlight, but by no means an isolated incident. It was part of a late '80s war for dominance in the Eastern Conference, a power shift from Boston to Detroit characterized by brilliance and brutality, but these two weren't just participants in a team rivalry. There was beef, beef before the fight, and more beef after it, beef that persists decades later. Larry Bird and Bill Laimbeer don't like

each

other

. (naughty music) The late '70s were an incredible era for college basketball in the state of Indiana.

Bird and Laimbeer came in from very different directions. Laimbeer was the seven-foot-tall son of a wealthy manufacturing executive raised in the fashionable suburbs of Chicago and Los Angeles. He played four

years

at Notre Dame simply because he could. Laimbeer helped the Irish r

each

their first final four in 1978, but he was prepared for life and had little motivation to become a top professional player. That hardly changed when the Cleveland Cavaliers selected him with the 65th pick in 1979. Bird was the fourth of six br

other

s who grew up poor in a small Indiana town. Bobby Knight recruited Bird to play at Indiana University, but the overwhelmed and homesick 17-year-old dropped out before he began his freshman season.

Bird ended up enrolling at the much smaller Indiana State and played so brilliantly there that the Boston Celtics drafted Bird sixth overall in 1978, even though he planned to stay for his senior year in which the Sycamores reached the ALCS. 1979 NCAA against Magic Johnson's Michigan State. Bird and Laimbeer didn't really cross paths in college, but Larry definitely knew Bill, if only because Laimbeer was one of his mother Georgia's favorite players. Great, so let's jump ahead to 1985. At that point, Bird was already an era-defining superstar, already a two-time champion with the Celtics who had wrested East dominance from the Sixers and then defeated the mighty Lakers in the ' 84 finals.

Bird held the reigning regular season and Finals MVP over his friend and rival, Magic. Larry was at the top of the NBA. Laimbeer wasn't doing so bad either. After a year overseas and a couple of

years

with the miserable Cleveland Cavaliers, Bill had been traded to the Detroit Pistons, where he joined young superstar point guard Isaiah Thomas, another product of Indiana college basketball and, for what it's worth , another long-time favorite. of Georgia

bird

. Laimbeer had earned a reputation as Piston. He was a powerful defender and rebounder, a skilled outside shooter, a regular star alongside Bird. The guy was dirty as a diaper too.

Laimbeer fouled, failed and complained. Bird already knew the guy's way from moments like this in 1982, when Laimbeer wildly swung his elbows and then exploded at the referee who called a foul. That was just a sample. Beginning in 1985, Bird would receive heavy, almost annual doses of Bill Laimbeer's experience. The Pistons and Celtics played five playoff series in seven seasons with Boston taking the lead early, Detroit taking control at the end of the decade and both submitting to Michael Jordan's Bulls in the early '90s, but yeah, that Initial power struggle ended. rough. The Celtics crushed Detroit in the first game of the '85 East semifinals.

In the second half of what would be another Pistons loss in Game 2, a frustrated Laimbeer hit Bird with an elbow on a fake, then another which left Larry bleeding from the chin. Bird immediately came the other way, demanded the ball from Ray Williams and hit a jumper, and didn't finish, despite the blood pooling on his jersey. In the fourth quarter, Bird burned each of Laimbeer's teammates to reach 30 points, then 34, 36, 38. Bird finished with 42 points, 17 of them in the fourth quarter of that second victory. He was coy about the incidents that set him off. Yes, the Pistons got away with some elbowing, but mostly it was the Celtics who gave Larry the ball down low.

He did notice that Laimbeer was not playing well and seemed frustrated. Well, big Bill turned around and dominated the third game. He led Detroit with 27 points and got into the fight with Boston big man Robert Parish. Bird had more to say this time. He badmouthed Laimbeer on the court by suggesting Boston was going to sweep Detroit, and after the Pistons actually won Game 3, Bird and the Celtics accused the violent offender of fouling the wrong way by falling like a fish out of water. . Bird said the referees favored Laimbeer, who took all the calls and specified that the other Pistons were fine.

It was Laimbeer and only Laimbeer that the Celtics had a problem with. Laimbeer said the accusations and taunts didn't bother him, but he fired back, calling the Celtics arrogant, and this on the same day reporters saw Bird impersonating Laimbeer on the practice court. Detroit took Game 4 to tie the series, and Laimbeer accosted the guy who had predicted a Boston sweep and yelled, "Where's your (bleeping) broom now, boy?" From there things cooled down a bit. Boston won the series in six games and got revenge against the Lakers in the finals. Laimbeer was reprimanded and never messed with Larry and the Celtics again.

Just kidding, Detroit got Laimbeer a new foul partner, Rick Mahorn, in the summer of 1985. Here are those two who gave Larry a good hit in November of that year. When Larry found out that Bill had been left off the 1986 Eastern All-Star Team after making it three years in a row, he said, "Good." Now I won't

have

to worry about him saying 'Hi, Larry' and me having to say '(bleep) you, Bill.' Bird was definitely not ashamed of his feelings towards Laimbeer. When SI's Jack McCallum asked the Celtics about his enemy in 1986, Bill Walton did not let his answer be published.

Parish said, "If you can't say something nice about someone, then don't say anything." Bird gave the blunt response that everyone else was holding back. We don't like him that much. Well, Bird and his friends were lucky. To avoid their company in the postseason, Detroit lost in the first round, so Boston did not

have

to fight against Laimbeer and the Pistons to win the 1986 championship. The Celtics and the Pistons faced each other. in the 1987 Eastern Conference finals, and it was not a cordial meeting, not with the man Michael Jordan had just called the NBA's dirtiest player involved.

Just like in 1985, the Celtics took care of the first two home games, so just. Just like in 1985, Laimbeer made his presence felt in the third game. The climax of a tense, violent Pistons victory came when Bird feinted at Laimbeer in the air, and Laimbeer knocked him down with a sledgehammer. He ripped Laimbeer into a dogpile, so Larry found a long-range gun and aimed the basketball at Laimbeer. Laimbeer was ejected for starting a fight. Bird was ejected for throwing the ball. The Pistons won that game, and now the real game was on, the meat game. Bird was still fuming in the locker room.

He reminded everyone of what M.J. said. and then he talked about Laimbeer. He wished the referees had cleared the field and let them fight because Bill didn't want anything to do with Larry. Bird acknowledged that he was at fault for throwing the ball, but he was not intimidated and had to protect himself from someone like Laimbeer. The opposite memory was the old Laimbeer. I did not do anything. He was trying to break his fall and Larry appeared swinging. I was a victim of my reputation. (kisses) Bird wouldn't hear it. Of course, he wasn't trying to hurt me and I was trying to throw the ball to the referee.

Bill's face just got in the way. The meat was more cold than hot in the fourth game. Bird refused to shake Laimbeer's hand before the game, and although a lineup change put Bird on Laimbeer as a defender, the two didn't really get involved. Laimbeer simply quietly dominated the smaller Bird, and Detroit tied the series with a blowout victory at home, but afterward, Bird made it clear that he was not over the Game 3 incident. Laimbeer suggested that he had made sarcastic comments after the denied handshake in the fourth game and was asked about said sarcastic comment, Bird repeated it by saying "blank, blank", which I assume doesn't mean "have fun", since that Larry also said, "Not like Bill Laimbeer. "Why should I shake his hand?" Laimbeer, well, you never know until you try.

This was very much Bill Laimbeer's modus operandi, inciting conflict in the court, laugh and play dumb later. By Game 5, Laimbeer, who had just been fined $5,000 for the fight, sarcastically anticipated a warm reception after taking down the hero of Celtics fans. Not really. he liked Laimbeer, but he didn't want anyone to hurt him or anything. Bird was talking about the fans in that quote. He forgot to share that feeling with his teammates, and he emphasized his point with another squeeze. hands, Robert Parish. that point with his hands. These claws in his face didn't even earn him a foul, let alone a technical or ejection.

Anyway, in this pivotal fifth game, the basketball overshadowed the meat. With just seconds left and the Pistons up by one, Bird had his shot blocked and the ball went out of bounds against the Celtics. As Isaiah Thomas rushed him in on Laimbeer, Detroit had victory in hand, but then Bird engineered one of the most legendary plays and one of the best Johnny Most radio calls in Celtics history. - Now that's a robbery from Bird. Below D.J., he places him on the right one second to the left. What a piece of work by Bird! - That was the decisive play of the series.

Parish was suspended for the attack that Bird considered a good deed, and Boston lost Game 6 without him, but back home for Game 7, the Celtics won the series, thanks in part to Adrian Dantley and Vinnie Johnson busting heads, which knocked out Dantley. and out of the game. After the final buzzer, Laimbeer predictably reached out to Bird for a handshake, and Bird simply outplayed him. Larry made it clear at the end of the series that his grudge was not going to go away. He always respected his opponents, but he believed Laimbeer had tried to hurt him, and Sydney Green, who left the Pistons after that season, told people that Laimbeer had premeditated an attempt to hurt Bird.

That story might have persisted if Dennis Rodman and Isaiah Thomas hadn't said some saucy things that got everyone's attention, but still, Laimbeer had more than secured his place among the NBA's so-called bullies. His Pistons would soon become known as the bad boys. '88 brought a rematch of the conference finals and Laimbeer was sure this would be Detroit's year. He had the utmost confidence. Bird said: "I'm sure he's confident. I'm sure he was confident last year, too." The '88 series was less explosive, but still moody. Laimbeer hurt his shoulder early on and Bird shot poorly in every game.

Throughout the series, they still got involved a bit like in this brief tangle during the second game, but the extracurricular behavior was relatively tame at the beginning of the fourth game, Bird was guarding Laimbeer again, which led to the usual shoving and techniques occasional. Laimbeer had a great scoring night. The Celtics won that game to tie the series, and Bird teased Laimbeer a bit for passing up the final shot, but as Larry remained frozen, the Pistons pulled away in games five and six to take the win. Crown of the East In a move the Pistons would one day imitate, the bitter Celtics starters left the court before the final buzzer sounded to begin the Silverdome celebration.

That was the beginning of the end of a great Celtics era. the Pistons in the first round the following season. Detroit swept Boston in that series and ultimately swept the Lakers to give Laimbeer and company their first title in 1989. Detroit repeated the following season while Boston bounced back in the first round. The Celtics and Pistons met again in the 1991 East Semifinals, but Bird was once again slowed by back injuries, and in reality this was just a battle to see who would become the conference's ultimate casualty. of the Bulls. Finally it was time for Jordan to wear the crown.

M.J., by the way, was pretty clear in 1990 about how he felt about Bird and Laimbeer's play on the court. - If you had 273 professional basketball players and you said who is the dirtiest player in the NBA, I would say that 95% would say Laimbeer or Larry Bird." - Of course, I think neither of them would deny this characterization. Laimbeer, for For his part, he published a video game called"Combat Basketball" in 1991. He owned his reputation. Either way, both guys' careers ended in the early '90s, and fans wondered if their mutual dislike would ease with retirement.

Well, when the Celtics retired Bird. jersey in 1993, Bob Costas joked that it was a perfect night, even though Laimbeer couldn't attend, and Bird said, "We'd probably hang it there with my jersey when Laimbeer contemplated his own retirement later that year." He said, "I don't want to go out like Larry Bird," meaning worn out and injured in his last game, but what happens next? In the decades since his retirement, both Bird and Laimbeer have stayed away from basketball, as coaches and managers. , and make media appearances, and when you make media appearances, these things come up from time to time.

In 2008, Laimbeer was head coach of the WNBA's Detroit Shock. Bird was an executive with the Indiana Pacers who were in the midst of a playoff drought. When the Shock visited Indianapolis to play the Fever, Laimbeer spoke on local radio. They asked him about Bird and he responded. I can't find the audio, but Indy Cornrows' wonderful blog transcribed it at the time. Laimbeer said he didn't really pay attention to how the Pacers were doing, but he also betrayed that in some ways he did. When Bob Kravitz confirmed that the Pacers had not been making the postseason, the guy who had coached the Shock to several rings said, "That would drive me crazy.

I'd probably quit." After talking a little more about Bird's inability to lead Indiana to a title, Laimbeer was asked about keeping in touch with Larry and said he just didn't care. They didn't grow up together, they were never friends, so why hang out? Finally, Laimbeer was asked what he would do if Bird called him. he offered him a job with the Pacers, and he guessed the whole premise was flawed, and while Bird went on record in 2009 that Laimbeer was a great coach, I think Laimbeer guessed correctly. In 2013, Bird was interviewed by. He was a fanatic and it didn't seem like he had forgiven Laimbeer for the way he played. - You never liked Laimbeer in any social situation. -No.-Yes.-And it's because he was a dirty player.

He's not interested in what I assume is the post-game version of trying to shake Bird's hand: Larry Bird sitting next to you right now, would you talk to him? Would you have a conversation with him? What would you say? -He'd probably go to another table. - So yeah, it's not like they're still drawing blood and shooting basketballs, but the feud between Bill Laimbeer and Larry Bird may never die. Laimbeer was a very good player who liked to be a starter. He said it best. I don't fight, I flail and then walk away. Well, it turns out that one of the greatest players of all time wasn't going to let him go, not this guy, not that night in '87, not before, not after.

Years of playoff conflict culminating in a power shift virtually guaranteed personal disputes. Of all those subplots, this is the one that never went away. Sometimes when you agitate people, they stay agitated forever. Thank you very much for watching "Beef History." If you're a Celtics fan, you might like this episode. If you're just a fan of beef, you might like any of these. (melancholic music)