JP Morgan Chief Jamie Dimon on the Dire State of the Global Economy | DealBook Summit 2023

Please welcome Andrew Ross Sorin and his guest, JP Morgan Chase Chairman and CEO Jamie Diamond, good morning Jamie, thank you. I want to welcome Jamie Diamond, of course, the chairman and CEO of JP Morgan Diamond is at the helm, as you all know. The largest bank in the country with assets of almost $4 trillion. He's also the longest-serving CEO of any major Wall Street bank and we should say that earlier this year he carried out the bailout of the First Republic, which is actually downstairs in this building, during the second major. failure in history and one of the reasons he wanted him to help us start today.

He has his hand in virtually everything that happens here and abroad. They have more than 60 million customers. He employs more than 300,000 people worldwide. He has businesses in the Middle East and China and he's very involved, of course, in Washington politics and I will say that if there's a CEO, other CEOs say they come to us for advice and on complex issues, we're Jamie Diamond and I. I should also mention that you were our first speaker at the Dealbook Summit, the first

summit

we held 13 years ago, so thank you for being here, welcome, glad to be here friends and congratulations on the success of Dealbook.

Thank you. This is where I want to start. We put the conversation on the screen, but you made a comment and I think maybe this will help everything or at least help us set the table. You said this may be the most dangerous moment the world has seen in decades. It doesn't feel like that in some ways when you're walking down the street, but why do you think it's the most dangerous time? So first, welcome everyone, you know, if you look at history and open a newspaper from any month. In any year, of course, difficult things always happen: wars, depressions and recessions, but if we look at this moment and what is happening in Ukraine, a 600-mile front, a free and democratic European nation, 600,000 victims, a huge humanitarian crisis, NATO on the border of the NATO nuclear zone. blackmail, uh, and it's affecting, you know, all the oil and gas migration, food costs and all international military and economic relations, that's pretty difficult and that was before the terrorist attack in Israel, so I see those things as something dangerous and you know what we need.

We have to get over it now, hopefully it will all go away, but if you look at the history of battles like this, they are unpredictable and you don't know the full effect, so you know and I've talked to a lot of people. I think they talked to KI Rice and Bob Gates and some military people would say the same thing. This is really complex and it's obviously affecting the United States and China as a result of this. And what do you do about it, which means we all can? Sit back and say this may be one of the most dangerous times in the world, but how are you?

How are you changing what you're doing based on that? If you're talking about the company, you're talking about the nation. so I think as a nation both, but this is my personal opinion, we better have the best army in the world. None, there is no replacement for that. I think we learned a lesson, we became a little complacent, what happens in companies, happens in countries, but we. We must not be complacent, the world is always a dangerous place, we just forget number two, you know, I think oil and gas can be explosive, explosive, expensive and hurts poor nations and poor people, we must be very thoughtful about it.

I think it's about keeping the Western world together so the Western world thinks militarily and economically and you know you need American leadership, not rude, arrogant American leadership, but American leadership to ensure that this world stays together and that it affects trade it affects all economic relationships and you know we have To do a good job on that, I don't want the book to be written in 50 years saying How the West Lost, okay and that's what it's going to take and hopefully , we will have that, how can this be hindered? Because one thing is Say look, this may be one of the most dangerous moments in the world, but there is a 10% chance that it is the most dangerous moment.

How do you think about that? And it is also very difficult to bet on the end. of the world, yeah, I'm not betting anything, so when we do risk management we don't look at risk management saying well, we don't think it's going to happen or we look at percentages like but what's the range of potential outcomes? but my opinion is that when you have this type of risk you better take it very seriously because the possibility of something going wrong is high and if it goes wrong the cost would be enormous, that's how I see it and So I think that all Citizens of the world, the democratic world, should be thinking about what we can do to do a better job and the first thing is the military side, you know, Ronald Reagan, you know, we don't win from a position of weakness.

If you avoid war from a position of strength, we have to do that and I think we should support free enterprise as a nation. You know, Bob Gates wrote a book that is brilliant, but there is a first chapter of a book called exercise of powers. Symphony of power and talks about how sometimes we abuse and abuse our military force, but we underutilize development Finance Communications like the benefits of being free and freedom of speech and freedom of religion and freedom of enterprise uh uh Communications about that uh economic relations diplomacy so I travel all over the world, you know, the United States is absolent in some places, the Chinese are now all over Latin America and all over Africa.

I'm not against them. I'm just saying we have to do a better job at that and if you look at our development. Finances and some of our things, those efforts have been declining for years, so we need to handle that problem thoughtfully and strategically, just look at the permutations, although if you could say if this is the most dangerous time, how does it metastasize? ? what is happening in Israel in a moment we are going to talk to the president of Israel, Isaak Herzog, in a moment we will have the president of Taiwan on the screen, you just mentioned China in the Middle East as examples of what?

Do you think it could happen? Yes, well, I already mentioned nuclear blackmail, so humanity faces enormous risks. There are three that I am going to mention. Well, one is obviously these wars, which is not one of those three, but nuclear proliferation is probably the most dangerous thing. In the face of humanity's changing climate, we need a lot of work to do and we don't really have to act together on it. If you think about good policy and another pandemic, in my opinion, we were lucky in this pandemic, you know that. It wasn't as deadly as smallpox and it didn't kill children, so we need to act together to achieve those things, obviously wars are unpredictable and you know, what's happening in the Middle East is unpredictable.

You know, hopefully, these wars will end, you know, in Armus, in peace, that's good for Ukraine and Israel. But you can't count on that happening and you certainly can't count on it happening before we meet again in a year. I wonder about the role of companies in the geopolitical sphere. You do a lot of business in China. There is a report that you are going to fund Shen's IPO. You do business with Bit Dance and, uh, who happens to be the owner of Tik Tock, a business that many people think is fundamentally a threat to the national security of the United States, how do you justify that I was in China and you, for Of course, there are people who are afraid that you are pro-China and I said?

The Chinese know one thing about me. I am a red-blooded, passionate, free-market, pro-capitalist, pro-American. I welcome what the American government is doing and we are talking to them all the time about what the right path is. to deal with National Security, you know it's not Sheen, that's not the issue of National Security, but you know that when the government comes up with what they want to do, I'm going to say hello and that's what JP Moore is going to do , but in the meantime, it is a very complicated issue, so each nation has national security interests.

You know that ours are semiconductors and, uh, maybe some data, but you know that for Europe it is energy. They are completely dependent on third parties for their energy. Even for China. They import, I think, nine or 10 million barrels of oil a day, so each country will take into account its own national security interests and therefore the complexity of China, we will work, we want to be part of it, we want to be part of it. to be at the table and help figure it out and I think the government is talking the right way. Narrow garden High walls semiconductors you know pen 100% of our penicillin 100% of our pharmaceutical parts come from there obviously we should fix that, but is there some part of you that says, for example, do business with the bite dance with Tik Tok, we will have Kevin McCarthy, he is not a fan, as you know about Tik Tok, there are several

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s that are trying to ban Tik Tock, that's me.

I'm not going to analyze this here and I'm not going to talk about clients. You can imagine the due diligence and work we do to find out what the truth is about those things if some of those people do things that we think are really bad, we wouldn't fund them and of course the American government will have a view on respect and we will also participate in those conversations. Let me ask you about that, but I also think that I think compromise is good. I don't believe it. fear of China, okay, we have all the food and energy, we have the Atlantic and the Pacific, we haven't pissed off our neighbors, you have a great relationship with Mexico and Canada, you know, they have a very complex neighborhood, they have done quite well.

Job piss off all the people around them, okay, and that's it and who are they all REM militarizing Japan, the Koreas, the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India and whatever you think about Russia, they're not great friends, as you have known them for just 30 or 40 years. There were armies on both sides between Russia and China, so they have to import 10 million barrels of oil per day. They have terrible demographics, so I'm not afraid of China. I think we should get involved exactly the way the administration is doing. today and I think it's good that an American bank is there to help the United States, you know, the multinationals around the world and China with its own development, if that makes sense, if for some reason the American government says no more can do that, so be it.

Okay, but what is that risk? I don't set the foreign policy of the United States, but what is that risk and how do you think about that risk? The reason I asked the question is that today we have a number of businesses that we are I'm going to talk to Bob AER, who also has a big business in China and to the extent that you think the war in Ukraine could have been a dress rehearsal of what would happen if there was a takeover of Taiwan, maybe don't do it. I think it's a dress rehearsal, but the reason I brought it up is that if that were to happen, if you remember most American companies left Russia, they could do it now.

That, economically, wasn't the hardest thing to do, it would be much harder for American companies. Imagine for a Disney for an Apple for a Nike to leave China if the American government forces me to leave China I leave China it's fine, it doesn't matter what I think or not, don't think, but I think you' If there is a war in Taiwan, you can rule out all bets that there will be a great depression, that the United States will be better off than China, you know that, so you know that, and it would be very difficult, no one thinks that is going to happen. happen, so as a risk manager, JP Morg can handle that, but that would be very bad for the world and very bad for China, very bad for the people of China, so I don't think it's going to happen, but you know , you can not.

Say no, so you know you have to be prepared for it, but I think the best thing you can do is help the American government figure out what we need to do to protect our national security, protect our allies, keep the Western alliances together. and make it clear to people who are adversaries or potential adversaries what the cost to them of bad actions will be. That's what we need to do. We're going to have the vice president here in a moment. How do you think they're doing? I think you know. I think they have done a good job ceding the world to Ukraine.

I think you and I can argue that they should have done it faster and stuff like that. I'd probably do it faster. I think when you've done it, you know. This type of battle that is going on making things difficult for Ukraine is bad and you know we want Ukraine to be in a position where it can eventually resolve this in a way that feels good about what has been done and that it becomes very complicated. I think we need to do a better job keeping the Western world together economically, diplomatically and strategically. I already mentioned that we need to do more and you know, for example, for Democrats not to talk about trade, soYou know, I travel the world, I talk to these people.

Finance ministers and prime ministers, and you know, we are talking to you about all these things, but and I, who am in favor of human rights, labor laws, the climate, but these nations need help and economic relations, I almost They sometimes say, well. Why can't you talk about something important called trade and

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and I think we should have joined the CPP T TPP? I beg Trump to call. I told Trump he should call it the Trump Pacific Partnership and I thought it might help him get over the Edge and what happened, but it didn't work and then he did the tariffs, which I'm not in favor of.

I was in favor of focusing on the issues that we all ignored for a long time the seriousness of the Chinese competitive position and, you know, we have to do things like this and I think the government has explained to people why we have to do these commercial things in instead of We say that we cannot talk about trade because part of the party does not want to do so. Why are we involved in Ukraine? USA. First of all, America is the front line of democracy right now for the world and we have done that. I didn't learn my lesson in 1938 and 1917, I mean, we have to teach people history, okay, so we have elections coming up, yes, in about a year.

And what do you think of the two main candidates at the moment? Oh God, I'm not, you know, I'm not going to tell you, you're not going to tell me, I came out, I made a good

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ment about Nikki Hy, you did it, you're very liberal, yeah, I did, even if you're very liberal, Democrat, I urge you. You know, it helps Nikk H too, you know, you have an option on a Republican side that might be better than Trump and that's your opinion that he's anything but Trump. I would never say you know because he could be the president I have to deal with. that too and you know, but when he was president you said critical things about him, yeah, I don't mind criticizing the president, yeah, but you feel like I mean one of the big questions, I think, is about the business community and whether they should do it. to talk or not to talk about politics, this is a big question, especially as we get closer to this election and what is the right answer at this moment particularly uni, next up will be Kevin McCarthy, who got M at one point, we take a point. point of view and something like that when you say politics is a personal right, then everyone can vote for whoever they want, we can all debate and stuff like that, we get involved in politics, okay, I'll tell everyone we've done a terrible job al they take care of our bottom 30% of earners, so they are all rich and have money and all that, but their average salary is $15 to $20 a year, they are the ones who lost their jobs in covid.

They are the ones who are healthy, they are dying five or six years younger than the rest of us, they are the ones who don't have health insurance, they are the ones whose schools are not working and they are them. deal with crime, what the hell have we done as a nation? So, I agree that we need to fix that, so when you talk about policy, obviously, we should know that we need better immigration policy, we need better education policy, we need better infrastructure. policy, but it takes people to execute those policies and the question is who do you think would do a better job.

I don't understand who the president is. I'm going to try to help do the best job I can when Donald Trump becomes president. I went to see him and joined that Business Council, those things almost never worked out, by the way, and I left in the second moment. You know, my daughter wrote me a long, fancy letter about basically everyone, how could you? Dad, she quoted Martin Luther King. In the end I called her and then my other two daughters and my wife sent me a quick email saying the same thing like you were embarrassing us and I called her and said Julia, you have everything fine except the conclusion I'm not going to take myself off the playing field .

I will enter that higher position. I will try to help whoever is president of the United States do a better job for our people. That's my job and I can't imagine saying I'm not going to go. to the White House because who was there? I don't agree with a lot of things he does, but I also want to point out that I think it's like if we're in New York City, you know, the bastion of liberal society, as a people, we should stop talking. about Ultra Maga, I think you're insulting a large group of people and then we assume we're scapegoats, something the press is pretty good at too, where somehow these people believe in Trump's family values ​​and support the personal person.

I do not think that's true. I think what they're seeing is they're saying the

economy

is pretty good, that even the black community had the lowest unemployment rate in their last year. He was not wrong about China. He was not wrong about NATO. He was not wrong about the misuse of the military, which is why you are seeing that Morian Dow wrote this great article about his brother. You know why your brother. I'm not sure he's pro-Trump, but he's pro-Republican. People should listen. a little more of this you know if you're a Democrat you know read George will read you know if you are if you're a Republican read Tom Fredman we should get out of this thing where it's one way or another No, I'm not mad at people who are against abortion , you know, if you believe in God and conception begins at birth, you're not a bad person, you know, and I just think people have to stop. put each other down all the time because people have a point of view that's slightly different than yours and you know we're a democracy people should vote and solve some of these problems and they're not always going to be what you want so explain this .

If you look at the current economy here in the United States, you could say inflation is going down, you could look at gas prices, they are going down, wages are going up, there are some good things to say, yes, and yet you would think if In fact, you look at some of the polls and you tell people that this economy is not a good economy, so first of all, the most important things are the things that we've already talked about. Now I tell my own people in J. The economy is the weather you know and people are always trying to guess what the weather is going to be like and you know what you're making a mistake.

It can snow, it can rain, it can be ice outside, it goes up, it goes down as a company. we are prepared for all that, my job during that kind of thing is to serve my client, which includes countries, cities, states, hospitals, schools, Ukraine, IMF, World Bank, that is my job and I know that the climate and the profits they go up or down and credit losses and all that. that kind of stuff, but if you look at the US economy, yeah, you know unemployment is almost historic, but inflation is hurting people, uh, but employment is really important.

I just mentioned the lower third, okay, and when you say Pauls, that lower third. I think they have a right to be angry. I'd probably be a little angry if I were them, so we shouldn't act like it's a binary thing. What did we do wrong? I've been talking about trying to help low-income citizens since President Johnson and it's almost still where it was before you knew it, so I think we've made a lot of mistakes, but let me just CAU. you look at the economy, when people look at the economy today and things are going well, stocks are going up and we've been injected a little bit of drugs right into our system, what's called fiscal stimulation, the biggest we've had in times of peace, and quantitative easing the biggest monetary stimulus, two different things, different effects, but they are drugs that run through the system and create this type of sugar high and we are on a sugar high.

I don't know if it will end in a soft landing or something. like that, but people say: well, corporate profits have increased, this has increased, yes, corporate profits have increased because people spend a lot of money, where do they get the money that the government gave them? Well, of course, profits have increased, you know, when they stop spending money. Corporate profits will go down, so I'm a little worried that we're in that sugar high and don't get it. We had never had QT before. I think it may affect more than other people. If we are going to see it in volatile markets, now we have seen very volatile markets.

Most don't care about volatile markets unless they start affecting the economy and which ones might, so I'm pretty cautious about the economy and I think QE, QT and all these geopolitical things can affect. I would be a little careful with that, simply because today feels pretty good and you think J. Powell can still raise rates. You don't think he's done. The prevailing view is it's over, yeah, and maybe we go the opposite way to the prevailing view, you know, take a graph of the prevailing view before every major turning point and it's always been wrong, so I don't look at the predominant view and I don't do it either.

I'm trying to guess, so my view on the economy is that I think there is a higher chance than other people that rates will have to go up, think short rates and 10e rates, the Fed sets short rates, they just They dictate them and can manage them through a group. Of course, they don't set the tenar rate that you set: supply, demand, inventory sentiment. The capital requirements around the world and those capital requirements are enormous. Governments have the largest deficits in history and have the largest debt in history since the last time we had high inflation. numbers, you know, the debt to GDP was 35% and now it is 100%.

And that and you go around the world, it's more or less we have been the most spread, but it is more or less the same, so when vulka increases rates, you know that the deficit was small and the debt was small and now it is a lot major that governments need more money the green economy is going to need more money the European energy situation requires money trade restructuring is going to be inflationary remilitarization the world is inflationary so I see that there are many things out there that are dangerous and inflationary, so I'm just saying be prepared, you know it's rational if you work with a risk that rates could go up both the short term rate and the 10 year rate. and be prepared for that to lead to a recession.

You know, when I start worrying about JP again, it'll hurt us a little. We will still be fine and serve our customers, but I think the odds are better than for other people. You know, I think there's still a chance for a soft landing. I just give it less chances than other people. That's it, let me ask you a different question and this is maybe also a political question, but it's about internal issues here and it's about actually how the bank thinks about these things. We talked about ESG for a long time and that was a big issue in the United States.

For the last two years, Larry Fink sat on this stage and talked about the benefits of ESG there. It's a terrible reaction that you're trying to do a lot of business in Texas, for example, they don't necessarily want to allow you, as you know, to sell minicipal bonds in the state of Texas because they think you're not. I'm a fan of fossil fuels. I'm the last awake person you'll ever meet. I don't even know what the word means. One day I asked Kevin McCarthy what awakening is. I mean. Define it as if I absolutely care about people, but let me.

I ask him this: he talked about climate change being super important, one of the most important and dangerous problems. JP Morgan is a member of the United Nations Net Zero Alliance, yes, right, which means he is transitioning the portfolio from it. The commitment is to transition the investment portfolio to ghd Net Zero Emissions by 2050, yes the state of Texas is not a promise, it is a goal, but yes, it is a goal, yes the state of Texas says that Well, if you're going to do that, since we like oil, we don't want to do it. business with you, what do you do about it?

I don't worry about that, it's okay, we do it well, you're worried because everyone is trying to figure out what to do, no, because we are honest and

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ct and we deal with people with the same The largest oil and gas financier in the world, so I went to Texas, went on TV and told them I don't understand this: we finance more oil and gas companies in the world than anyone else, which I'm proud of. The best companies, the cleanest companies, are reducing oil and gas, they are reducing methane, they will be the most important part of the transition, believe it or not, you know that, so we look at the facts and the detailed analysis and yes , we are. also one of the largest green financiers in the world, solar energy, uh, uh, all the R&D is carried out, so we just do our job and that's what I don't think will happen, but if it happens, so That is, we cannot do it municipally. bonds in Texas there will be consequences for Texas because we have banks there, cities, schools, states, hospitals, companies, 30,000employees and this time I would hit back, okay, so we don't have to put all our employees there.

It seems ridiculous to me, so I won't do it. get involved in politics you ask me about politics me or politics I will tell you what I think, so I don't know exactly why they are upset with us and they will probably reconsider that at some point, although it could be the same issue. associated with guns in the United States, yes, and the relationship that JP Morgan has and the stance that the bank has taken in terms of doing business with gun manufacturers, what is the question, the question is: will there ever be a moment when some state says for you or there are enough states out there that say you know what we are against this and you will have to change if they do it so be it you know I live in a democratic society and states.

If it's legal, they don't always have the right to do that We fund we don't fund people who make military style assault weapons for civilian use we fund companies that make military equipment for the military and police we help the military in everything The way that we can, we have hired 15,000 vors. I'm very proud of that, okay, so I don't understand, I understand the problem. I want to reduce guns in the United States by every means possible, and you know, we're involved in that. on a policy level, but it's not up to JP Morgan Chase, so we want to do a better job, but we can't, but I remember this coming up the first time.

I can't tell you how to spend your money because someone you know told you why. You let people use your credit card to buy a gun. First of all, we don't know. Secondly, I can't tell you to spend your money. It's not my job. Still I want to know if you could avoid it. Yes, but you. I mentioned that years ago and I called them and told them that the federal government sees every gun purchase and has the data, what you all don't know is that when there is one gun and there are 40,000, I think people go back to selling guns, we No. we know who's buying, we just know what store you're in, but those gun guys have to give the government a written record, they look at that written record to do their search and then they throw it away if they digitized it and they were allowed by law, and under the law they're not allowed to look at those digital things, they may have seen patterns around these killers, you know, guns, no, the law change, no, I can't change the law, you know, if you want.

To change it, go out and tell people why they should vote for this in the federal election, that people should be allowed to digitize the data and use it to look for patterns that would lead to serious crimes. I want to open this. I'm ready for questions in a moment, but I want to ask you this, you're one of the biggest recruiters in the country. There is a big question about the discourse happening on campuses these days, as it largely relates to what happened. in Israel anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and things like that, Bill Amman, I think he's here, I see Bill here, he's been very outspoken about this issue about the hiring, yes, about the people who signed some of these, these pledges against Israel , calling for genocide of the Jews and all kinds of things that's going to be a factor in your hiring, so this is like there's an individual in front of me and I can see all these things, what they did and how they did it, when they did it.

They did and things like that could be, but it's not about anything. I'm not going to sit down and tell you yes or no, you know, and I just think it's unfair to the individual, so no, I don't have a straight answer. as bigots and anti-semites at all, I would hire a real bigot of some kind, probably not, but that's pretty basic, that was true before we had Elon Musk here this afternoon, what do you think of him? I haven't read that. book still under Walters here, obviously I'm a brilliant human being and I make incredible contributions to humanity, but he, you know, has pros and cons and I'm not very fond of him because we've had some trade disputes, you've got a big lawsuit going on. with him it's a small lawsuit, we think they owe us money on something they say they don't and it's in court, we'll win it before we open it, let me ask you this, you're 67 years old right now.

He recently announced that he was selling JP Morgan shares, the first time he had done so. Yes, what was the decision on that? Does that mean we are now talking about succession? For you, it had nothing to do with it, so half the shares I have I bought and I never sold a share, but I never said that. Holier than now, like it's cool. I'm not going to buy a stock. I know you guys went back to the oath. There is no oath that we have had. I never had a company oath. I understand that older people want to diversify a little.

When I look at it, I should have done it sooner. That's just a little bit. It's not really important to me. It's more of a vision of the future. thing for my family when I'm gone and that's it, it's really no big deal without any statement from JP Morgan about his departure, well that's entirely up to the board. By the way, I feel blessed if you look at my company. and the older people there, men and women, I mean, I'm lucky to have people who are smart, talented, bright, hard-working, ethical, full of heart and soul and things like that, the people who can take my job tomorrow depends entirely on the board, the board talks every time about what Do you want to do as long as I do?

Know? Can? I think a CO shouldn't have this job if you can't give it your all but by the way, it's there because of the way we're talking right now. We're talking about two presidents, uh, two people running for president, uh, who you know, would be over 80 years old. Do you want to do this until that age? It's a fair age, it's not a question of age, okay, it's whether you would have the energy and the ability, are you adding value? and if the next person is ready at a certain time, I should go, then the board will make that decision and the important thing for all of you and this is like the most important governance issue in the world, forget all the rules and regulations and president and

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ctor executive and all that crap you read about the board meeting without me every meeting and I've asked them to do that from bench one, meaning they can have a conversation, the senior director often comes and gives me a little note or call would you like to see a little bit more of you know we're going to run out of time, but I said we'd go to the questions and I saw Bill Akan with his hand up before. so let's go, Bill has been, I should say, advocating for you to run for president of the United States, as you know, uh, I Bill, I don't know if you want to make that case right now too, but, which one That's your good question, good introduction, can you hear me?

Uh, uh, Jamie said he would do it. I wouldn't run for president, but if I were anointed president, I would take the job. So my question to you, Jamie, is well, actually, now the power is. It's been granted to me, I'm anointing you president, okay, it's your first 100 days, what are your top 10 things and what do you do for the first year? You know, yeah, the first thing I do is probably have a cabinet of really smart talent. smart people, you could be Secretary of the Treasury, it's possible, uh, I would be a Republican, I would definitely put Republicans and Democrats, you know, it's just a sign that I'm not going to be beholden to one side or the other, but Well, the most important political questions. the most important is this matter of foreign policy, this war that holds the Western worlds together, diplomacy.

I would double down on diplomacy, development funding, which is the most important thing for the free world for the next 100 years, but internally, education, job skills in cities, immigration, you're not going to go. having this this is hurting countries around the world, you know, uncontrolled immigration, we have to do something about it, education, uh, I would grow the economy, I think the president should have a growth strategy, you know growth , the deficits. we have that the only solution is to grow the economy grow the economy is supporting be business friendly when I go to France and the UK now and meet the president of the prime minister is PR growth Innovation taxes right for the people of the country I would double the income tax credit, I mean what I said about lower-paid people, which would cost like 60 billion or a hundred billion dollars, doubling that income and getting rid of the requirement to have children, so that if you make $114,000, the government would give You 14 You Like a negative tax that would put more money into those communities and they would help their children and things like that.

I would do that tomorrow. It would make people like you pay a little more. I would leave the day I got to the office, you know, because it's unfair, you know? So I would do a bunch of stuff like that and we'll talk to Kevin McCarthy about that in a moment, it'll be fun, hey, but here it is. Something important about this, I don't think you know, not even the Democrats I know believe that sending a trillion more dollars to the government is going to help and we have to be very careful about the policies that work and the money that is spent appropriately.

So you know, I would charge you more taxes, but it would go to those poor people. We have to leave it there. I see the great Ron Conway in the back. I promise I'll get you in a little bit. I'm going to have to wrap up this session because we're out of time, uh, but I want to thank you, Jamie D, for having a great rest of your

summit

. I appreciate it, yes, thank you very much. I'll be there in a second.