"I may have messed something up." | Shaq vs. Kobe, Part 3

(soft music) - You may not know this man's name, but you probably recognize him. You've seen it here and here and here. We could do this for a while. This is Jim Gray, a sports reporter in every sense of the word. Gray has had the determination to tackle difficult and unwilling topics, the good fortune to witness historic events and the access to interview athletes inside their locker rooms, press rooms and playing fields. Access, if done correctly, creates another form of sports reporting. Along with all the stories Gray got through digging and meddling, there's a long list of stories the guy came after him for.

Mike Tyson wrote to Gray from prison. LeBron James chose Gray to host his "Decision" television special. Tom Brady started a podcast with Gray. This is trust. Throughout a multi-decade Hall of Fame career, Gray has been trusted as the confidant and medium of titanic sports figures who want the world to know

something

. Gray's autobiography, "Talking to GOATs," boasts of his relationship with a roster full of the greatest athletes of all time who swear by him. One of these relationships was

part

icularly special. Gray worked for the San Diego Clippers in the early 1980s, when Joe Jellybean Bryant was on the team.

He met Joe's son when the boy was still in diapers. So Gray knew how to keep an eye on Kobe Bryant during his rise to stardom. Once Bryant got there, his pre-existing connection with Gray created access and trust. One of Kobe's first big national television interviews as a professional? Jim Gray. That 2001 interview discussing Kobe's midseason conflict with Shaq? Jim Gray. Kobe's interview right after the Lakers won it all again that year? Grey. And after the Lakers were eliminated in the spring of 2003, who received the exclusive story that Kobe intended to become a free agent after one more season?

Yes, Jim Gray. So it's no surprise that this reporter played a role in the other big stories of Bryant's '03 offseason. Let's be clear that these stories overlap but are not proportionate. One of the stories is important. In the summer of 2003, while visiting Colorado for knee surgery, Kobe Bryant was arrested and charged with sexually assaulting a 19-year-old hotel employee. On July 18, the day Bryant was previously charged, CNN called Jim Gray. Live, Gray vouched for Bryant's character. He later reported from the press conference in which Bryant, sitting alongside his wife Vanessa and his attorneys, denied the charges but admitted to committing adultery.

The criminal case was dismissed more than a year later and a civil suit was subsequently settled. This is the important Kobe Bryant story of this era. It's real life. Jeff Pearlman's book "Three Ring Circus" goes over the entire story. We're here to talk about

something

relatively unimportant. Sports. The beef between Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal. This story was influenced by the real-life big story and, again, Jim Gray played a role in telling it. In August 2003, Bryant told Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak that he had not received any support from his co-star following the allegations. Kupchak responded and Shaq later confirmed that O'Neal's bodyguard, Jerome, left messages for Kobe on his behalf.

Kobe said the messages weren't enough and, according to coach Phil Jackson, he also said that the moment Shaq started talking to the press, he would respond. Meanwhile, Shaq was hearing something the rest of the world would learn much later. During Kobe's initial questioning with detectives, he made an offhand comment that he should

have

done what Shaq does. Shaq, he said, pays women up to a million dollars to keep quiet. Shaq heard all of this around the same time he was hoping to get a big contract extension from the Lakers, an extension that looked increasingly unlikely as September gave way to October.

Kobe's impending free agency had something to do with it. So there's the backdrop to the latest chapter in our story, the month-long climax of the Shaq-Kobe beef. October 2003. On Thursday, October 2, the Lakers' veterans flew to Honolulu to join their younger teammates at training camp. Among them were two very important newcomers. Fresh off Los Angeles' first playoff loss of the century, Shaq had recruited a pair of fading legends in hopes of grabbing a ring before retiring, Gary Payton and Karl Malone, huge new cogs on a roster of the Very different Lakers that would need time to consolidate.

Kobe Bryant did not join his teammates during the first day of camp Friday in Honolulu. Everyone knew about his court case and his knee rehab, but it wasn't that. Kobe just said he was sick. Reporters asked Shaq how he felt about opening camp without the full team present. "The whole team is here," Shaq said. Wait, what's up with Kobe? Here's what Shaq had to say about his teammate's absence. "Meow meow meow." Are you disappointed that Kobe didn't bond with his teammates? Are you mad at Kobe? Shaq's protocol for questions about his teammate was: "CAT: I can't answer that." On Saturday, Kobe finally showed up in Honolulu to join his teammates and face the media.

On Sunday, Phil Jackson canceled Lakers practice to bond with the team. While the Lakers ran around playing paintball at an Air Force station, Shaq primarily shot from a stationary position. He had a bruised heel, but Kobe said Shaq was in the back eating a slushy or something. This is all in good fun, but Shaq's foot problems and his related desire for a contract extension were no joke to him. He made it clear during the exhibition game in Honolulu, barking directly at Lakers owner Jerry Buss. Two days later, the Lakers flew from Hawaii back to Los Angeles.

Aboard the plane, Shaq brought out a portable record player and speakers with which he produced and then performed a parody of 50 Cent's song "p.i.m.p." with lyrics about the Kobe case. Kobe did not witness that, he was heading to Colorado for a judicial process. Kobe met up with his teammates for Media Day on Friday. He said going back and forth to court was no big deal. Shaq said that he wasn't paying attention to the case, that the only television he watched was "SpongeBob SquarePants." He wasn't going to comment or speculate, he just wanted to be a source of relaxation for Bryant, to help him laugh, to be his pillow, his comforter.

When the Lakers headed to San Diego for an exhibition against the Phoenix Suns, Kobe was again absent. His knee was bothering him and he had to fly to Colorado anyway. Shaq didn't play in that game either because of his heel, but he talked, and not like a cat. When asked why he was still resting, Shaq said he wanted to be right for Derek Fisher, Karl Malone and Gary Payton. The journalists noticed that he was forgetting someone. No, he repeated the same list word for word. Derek, Karl, Gary. No mention of Kobe. The following week, Kobe and Shaq finally played together in the preseason.

Kobe made his debut in Anaheim and then played again in the Lakers' exhibition finals against the Kings in Las Vegas. The crowd at those two neutral venues expressed their support for Kobe, the player and the person. But it was evident that the player was still shaking off the post-surgery rust. He made just 7 of 24 shots in those final two exhibition games. After watching that performance, Shaq shared a familiar feeling in a familiar place. Instead of talking to Kobe, he talked about Kobe to the media gathered in Las Vegas. "If Kobe is going to be on the court, he needs to keep other people involved, be more of a passer." That was the last day of preseason, Friday, October 24.

Kobe had said he would respond the moment Shaq spoke. On Sunday, reporters visited the Lakers' practice two days before the first game of the season. This is what they found: beef. Kobe kept his word. Responding to that relatively calm suggestion that he pass more, Kobe said: "I'm not going to change my game, I make good shots. I know how to play my position, you worry about yours." His teammates heard Kobe say that he would opt out next summer and leave it all because of Shaq. When Shaq found out about this escalation, he stopped being docile. "We're not talking about positions, we're talking about team basketball.

If it's going to be my team, then that's my opinion. If you don't like it, then leave. I don't care what Kobe does, he doesn't." "I don't care what we do, that's the kind of person he is." Shaq chastised Kobe for missing team functions and not traveling with the Lakers. He said he was taking control of the Lakers, but noted that the media might prefer to give that control to Kobe just as they give him everything. That, right before the season starts, is a lot. But Shaq also said, as he had in the past, that that dispute wouldn't affect the actual basketball the Lakers had to start playing in 48 hours.

Speaking of actual basketball, Kobe mentioned a specific stretch from last season, one worth remembering to understand what comes next. One of the main reasons the 02-03 season was so disappointing was Shaq's health. He delayed much-needed foot surgery until just before the season started. O'Neal missed a lot of games, a lot of losses while he rehabbed and then struggled to get back into shape. Shaq did not apologize for the inconvenience. He had been injured during work hours, so he would recover during work hours. He would rather miss

part

of the season than rehab during his vacation. During a stretch on February 3, when Shaq was limping and sometimes absent, Phil gave Kobe the explicit green light to take over the offense.

Then Kobe took him down. 46, 42, 51, 44, 40, 52, 40, 40, 41. Bryant scored 40 or more points in nine consecutive games, tying the best such streak in Michael Jordan's career. Only Michael and Wilt Chamberlain had recorded such a feat. The moment Shaq and Phil gave him the space to do so, the 24-year-old Kobe showed that he could shoot on par with the greatest scorers to ever walk the Earth. And then he stopped, apparently on purpose. This, according to Kobe many years later, is what followed. - Shaq comes back from injury and Phil says, you know, I'm still doing it, right? And then Phil calls me into his office and says, "Hey, you know, we're starting to lose our great friend." What do you mean? "Well, he's not getting the attention.

You know, this 40-point streak is starting to take away his fire to prove a point, right? So I need you to start slowing it down." I'm like, what? He says, "We're going to lose him and we need him in June." Okay, okay, we

have

a game against the Clippers. I got like 38 or something, and I had a chance to score 40 again, it was a spectacular game, I threw the ball to Shaq instead of shooting an open shot. The 40-point streak ended that night. - Wow. - Now Kobe's memory confuses some details. He only scored 32 points that night against the Clippers and kept shooting well into the fourth quarter.

But it's absolutely true that when Kobe was on that streak, Shaq seemed upset. "I guess he's cool." And then, as always, he complained. He wanted more shots. He mentioned the name of a former junior teammate of Jordan's. I'm not Bill Cartwright, I'm not a big token man. Bad foot or not, I want the ball." Shaq vintage stuff. It's also true that Phil responded by rescinding the green light. And it's true that Kobe obeyed. In March and April of 2003, a lot more happened while he was scoring. Just a lot of points instead of the godly 40 per game he had averaged in February So, going back to October, this was what Kobe was referring to in his response to Shaq's accusations of selfishness.

All of these quotes made it to the papers, on October 27, Phil called a meeting to clear things up. Each of Shaq and Kobe said their article, Phil demanded they keep everything in house, Karl Malone begged them to just leave it, Maybe the air was really clear that night, Kobe called Jim Gray. Gray was busy interviewing the Governor of California about the deadly wildfires, but Kobe wanted an interview on ESPN. The air was almost clear on every answer. Kobe shot Shaq. "Fat, out of shape, overdramatizing his foot injuries, not a leader, childish, selfish, jealous. Not my quote-unquote 'big brother'." His lack of professionalism hurt us last year and I don't want it to hurt us this year." That's an avalanche and it's not even the full transcript.

Kobe gave another quote about Shaq having less pride than the guy who makes donuts in 7 -Eleven, but Gray removed it because he was worried it would ruin his relationship with Shaq. Suffice to say, the damage was done with or without that line. Shaq watched the interview that night. He told his teammates that he was going to kill him.Kobe. Immediately, Brian Shaw's phone started ringing. Shaq and Kobe's former teammate had just retired, but several Lakers made the same plea. Arrive in Los Angeles immediately. The next morning, Shaq says, he arrived at the practice facility and found Shaw waiting for him, along with Jerome and some teammates.

Kobe arrived unimpressed by Shaq's threats, but Shaw insisted that Shaq was not joking. Everyone gathered in a movie theater and started shouting. Both Lakers public relations manager John Black and O'Neal himself say that Shaw at one point had to intervene and stop Shaq from chasing Kobe. With Shaw as mediator, both reaffirmed their grievances. The current Lakers chimed in to explain how much this conflict hurt them. Shaq told Kobe that if he ever said something like that again, he would kill him. Kobe responded, "Whatever." The relationship seemed worse than ever. Kobe received a fine from the team for the ESPN interview, then told reporters that he and Shaq were fine, that they were over it, that they were ready to move on, that it was over.

Shaq blocked those reporters for a couple of days, saying they weren't on his level when it came to intelligence. But then, after the first game of the season, Shaq spoke. At Phil's urging, O'Neal agreed to a truce. "We have to move on. I'm boisterous, he's boisterous. Nothing personal, we're used to it, we need each other. Yin and Yang, opposites attract." That was October 31st. The month of meat had ended, back to basketball. On paper, the Lakers had a good 03-04 season. They started off great, persevered despite some injuries, and returned to the NBA Finals. Between the lines, well, Phil wrote an entire book documenting the palace intrigue of that season from his perspective.

Phil and Kobe had to resolve major issues between them. Phil and Shaq, both awaiting contract extensions, remained united in their suspicion that the Lakers would prioritize Kobe's 04 free agency and that Kobe would ultimately decide his fate. It was a reasonable suspicion given the way Jerry Buss talked about Kobe. And don't forget, Kobe was awaiting trial for sexual assault this whole time. For a winning basketball season, 2003-2004 was extraordinarily strange off the court. But between Shaq and Kobe, the season was uneventful after October. Shaq says they kept a lid on things, which is largely true. You know, more or less some ESPN article in which Shaq insisted that he actually called Kobe over the summer and that if he had a problem with someone, he would just punch them in the face instead of talking to the person. press.

While Kobe responded: "No, he didn't call me and if he wants to fight, we can fight." Things like that. In reality, however, the conflict became a Cold War. Shaq and Kobe expressed their feelings in quiet and mean ways, such as refusing to be recorded by the same coach. Phil Jackson, feeling closer than ever to Shaq's side of the division, met with O'Neal and Rick Fox to ask them if they thought Kobe should leave the team to take up his case. They both said no, but when Phil asked them if they thought these Lakers would win a championship with Kobe, his answer was the same.

And, in fact, the Lakers didn't. For the first time, Shaq and Kobe lost the NBA Finals together. And that '04 loss to the Detroit Pistons included an additional novelty. Kobe took more shots than Shaq in the NBA Finals. It wasn't that hot. Bryant went 10 for 27 in a surprising home loss. In a grueling fourth game, Kobe was just 8 for 25. Shaq, who continued to give the Lakers more points on fewer attempts than his teammate, issued quotes that sounded like his old midseason self. "Write what you see, I'm disappointed." But Kobe kept shooting until the bitter end. 7 for 21 in the elimination loss, while Shaq went 7 for 13.

Years later, Laker 04 Kareem Rush said that he thought Kobe was going for the Finals MVP trophy that had always belonged to Shaq. Obviously that didn't happen, but Kobe had bigger desires anyway. The Lakers dynasty was undoubtedly over. Kobe had the negotiating power of free agency. The franchise seemed to favor him despite an ongoing criminal case. His demand was simple. Kobe wanted to shoot, and in 2004 he was clear about what that meant. He didn't want to be a partner anymore. It would be him or Shaq, not both. At the time, Kobe said these things privately, but years later, Kobe spoke openly about how he felt in 04.

He put it best in Ric Bucher's Oral History of that Lakers season. "I wasn't going to play with Shaq anymore. I'm going to fucking show them what I can do on my own, in L.A. or anywhere else." Kobe used his free agency to force the Lakers' decision. And if he was lying, well, this is one hell of a bluff. Whatever it was, it worked. Shaq had seen the Lakers clear his contract extension, then he saw them do the same with Phil Jackson. When word got out that Phil would quote "retire," Shaq read the writing on the wall and asked for a trade.

On July 14, 2004 he achieved it. The next day, Kobe signed a seven-year, $136 million contract to stay with the Lakers. Finally, it was his team. So this is where Shaq's concept of work falls apart. The work was over and, with it, the associated conflict. It's something Kobe summed up in great detail in 2004. - You know, he used to get mad at me for not playing team basketball. I used to get angry because he wasn't in top shape. -Both men referred to his feud as the inevitable clash of two alpha dogs. Each exercised his own proud ego. Shaq took pride in his natural brilliance, in his ability to dominate his opponents without practice.

He wanted his teammates to accept him and get along with him. Kobe prided himself on creating brilliance and practicing obsessively to refine his individual game. He didn't care so much about acceptance or liking. For a time, Shaq's advantages in age, experience and system made him the dominant force. Shaq spoke many words in many media outlets to prove Kobe's individualism and get what he wanted, the ball and three championships. But when Shaq's physical condition declined, the undeniable fruits of Kobe's labor made him the prevailing force. He showed off his youth and his solo ability, and then used the means in his own way to attack Shaq's weaknesses.

It's not that Kobe didn't want those three rings, he just needed to show that he could win them as the undisputed first option. In the long run, Kobe got what he wanted, baskets, two more championships as a leading Laker, two Finals MVP trophies, one more ring without Shaq than Shaq achieved without him. With that and the formal dismissal of his criminal case, Kobe cultivated a reputation, a legacy and a brand, literally, that was about Kobe and only Kobe. The excellence of it, the obsession of it, the precision of it, even the scandal of it. The whole Black Mamba thing started as a way for Nike to promote Kobe after his sexual assault allegation, and he evolved into a Finals MVP, veteran legend, and retired public figure.

It's an incredible thing. And it overlaps with the outcome of our story. The feud between Shaq and Kobe did not end abruptly with their breakup in 2004. Later that offseason, the public learned what Shaq already knew: that Kobe's police interrogation 03 included a statement accusing Shaq of bribing women. . This response, issued in September via ESPN's Stephen A. Smith, was as harsh and direct as Shaq would ever get. Denial and distance, but also an unequivocal reference to the expensive ring that Kobe had bought for his wife Vanessa after the accusations came to light. Smith and John Saunders put Kobe on the spot, putting pressure on a guy who was already feeling a lot of pressure. -When was the last time you spoke with Shaq and did you ever apologize for those statements? - This exposed Kobe's new position in the mess.

He had already finished stoking it. After trying some excuses. -I can try to locate him but, you know, I don't have his number or anything like that. -He promised to apologize, with the help of Stephen A..-Well, let me ask you this question. One of the things that Shaq would say, and I know him pretty well, is that Shaq would say it's not hard to find. -You probably have his number, I received it from you and I called him today. - There is some irony here. It's funny that Smith cited Shaq as someone who isn't hard to reach because when Colleen Dominguez asked a similar question, O'Neal jokingly said the opposite. -If Kobe Bryant called you on your cell phone right now, what would you say to him? - I don't have a cell phone, because the people I'm connected to, I'm connected to.

All you have to do is think and I will call you. I don't have a cell phone. And that's a problem with diesel, I'm more technologically advanced than you. - But that's not Shaq? With much less pressure, much less to prove, Shaq in 2004 sounded as glib and playful as he always talked about the problem. On "SportsCenter," he made subtle comments about Kobe's playing style. -I think if he did the little things, he would be the best player to ever play this sport. But he is a great player. - What are the little things? - Make everyone else better. -Talking to Stephen A., he made hints about Kobe's character. - You don't have to like me, but most people, if you ask them about me, like me a lot.

So if you don't like me, there must be something wrong with you. -And he told jokes, like the one about his new co-star Dwyane Wade who surprised him by passing him the ball. After he and Wade won the 2006 championship, Shaq enjoyed a few years' head start on Kobe in the title book. It's probably no coincidence that Shaq kept the issue in the public consciousness, always in a silly way. -Kobe? Who is that? - Yes, that's a real scene from "Scary Movie 2." This is the long tail of our history. After he finished the job, the dispute gradually faded into more of a meme than an open conflict.

Each one got what he wanted, grew up and felt comfortable laughing about the past, from a distance and, finally, as friends. There is one particularly famous moment from this era of gradual détente. It happened in 2008, after Shaq's fourth title, but before Kobe won his fourth and fifth. In June 2008, days after the Kobe-centric Lakers lost in the NBA Finals, Shaq took the stage at a New York club and performed a freestyle rap directed largely at Kobe. ♪ Check it out, you know how I am ♪ ♪ Last week, Kobe couldn't spare me ♪ (audience applause) - One line stole the show and became a meme of its own. ♪ Okay, Kobe, tell me how my ass tastes ♪ - And listen, that makes sense. "Kobe, how my ass tastes" is catchy.

Shaq repeated it a dozen times and got the entire crowd joining in. Kobe says he laughed, all in fun. But here's the thing. While "how does my ass taste" is fun in a vague competitive sports-centric sense, this is something else. ♪ Kobe ratted me out, that's why I'm getting divorced ♪ ♪ He said: Shaq gave a bitch a grand ♪ ♪ I don't do that because my name is Shaquille ♪ - That's Shaq referencing Kobe's police interrogation and his well-known statement about Shaq there, and Shaq suggests that statement was responsible for their divorce, which was a real thing that happened. That's real and pretty dark.

That is to say, not everything can fade away, not everything can be an object of laughter. There were genuine regrets, real scars on both sides of this relationship. When Kobe went on Shaq's podcast in 2015, they expressed their regret in two different ways. Shaq put things the way he often does. He fueled the dispute in front of the media because it was business, because it was the heat of the moment or to exert control. Shaq said a lot of things he didn't mean. Kobe, on the other hand, said some things that he did mean, things that made him feel like an idiot when he was a kid.

By saying all this to the media, they synthesized meat, generated pressure. If in 2004 Kobe realized that he had to step away from the public feud and directly apologized for the things he regretted, then Shaq's version of the same came a few years later. O'Neal and Bryant were teammates again for one night. On February 15, 2009, both were Western Conference All-Stars, Kobe still a Laker, Shaq with the Phoenix Suns. That's when the world first saw Shaq and Kobe enjoying each other's company again. They practiced together, they played together, they had fun making baskets together, even if the baskets didn't count.

At the end of the game, Shaq and Kobe shared MVP honors, and Kobe told Shaq to give the trophy to his son Shareef, at which point something clicked for the big guy. He was open and vulnerable about it in 2018. -You told me to take the trophy home. Remember that? - That's right, I did it. - And I took it home when I gave it to Shareef. And then I realized I thought, I think he may have

messed

something up. Because many times our problem was underway, I alreadyYou know, I'm the master at marketing, but 60% of the time I was just saying it to get you going.

Luckily, I won three out of four with this guy, but I was (cuts off), so I owe you an apology, I'm going to give you an apology, but we're not going to do all that... (Kobe laughs) - They won three out of four. But because one or the other couldn't remain satisfied, and because that dissatisfaction became public, those three rings could have been relegated to a B story in the shared legacy of an all-time great sports partnership. From the beginning, this was the solution. Shaq and Kobe were better off talking to each other, not about each other.

That didn't happen enough when they were teammates. It hurts to know that it can't happen anymore, but it did. Because they talked, because they resolved their differences in public, their shared legacy may look more like this, better measured in titles than beef. Shaq and Kobe made mistakes in their relationship. They made demands, they made accusations, they made headlines, they made a mess. But when all that was behind them, they made peace. And yet it happened, they made baskets. (soft music continues)