GE2024: Nigel Farage runs rings around BBC Breakfast presenters (14June24)

So we're also halfway through the general election campaign, three more weeks away, and this BBC

breakfast

show has invited the leaders of the UK's seven main political parties to talk to us here on the sofa and we begin the first of these interviews with Reform's Najja Farage. UK with us on the sofa this morning, you're welcome here this morning, thank you very much. So we had the debate last night, of course. Can I ask you first? It is a very young political party in historical terms. Can I get your assessment of where you think you are?

With three weeks until election day, we are very young. In fact, I mean the Brexit party that I founded in 2019, once we left the European Union, we renamed it reform, but I'll be honest. with you we were not ready for these general elections, I mean, we were very much expecting them to arrive in the fall, uh, we have been rushed. I hummed and said loudly about what to do. I finally decided I would come out of retirement and have another go, so that's notable. I'm back as leader because this is the 11th and if you look at the Times newspaper today you'll see in the UOV poll that we've overtaken the Conservatives and are in second place with Labour.

At the moment, we're a little bit ahead, so we're off to a phenomenal start. You understand that we have a duty to say that it is a survey and, as it stands, a survey, but it is still quite remarkable. Yes, but it's a survey. Can? Take us through the next step so that, understandably, you look at that poll and see it as a moment, a clear moment in the election campaign, how do you think that translates in terms of your performance in terms of MPs? the day because, as you well know, there is a big difference between declaring yourself opposed to the workers at this moment and actually becoming opposed to the workers in an official sense in terms of the number of MPS.

Maybe not, you're right, I mean. We have a completely outdated electoral system, it's not fit for purpose but it is what it is in 2015 when I led the UK in a general election we got 4 million votes and one seat I mean no one has ever got that many before votes for so little. reward, but this time we are looking for many more votes than the 4 million we hope to surpass the electoral threshold, whatever we do, you know, we may not get the number of seats we deserve, but we are going to win seats in Parliament. yeah, how many three weeks left, we have the momentum behind us and there are three long weeks left, well, you must know niga

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of your team and the work that you do, you must know what your goal is now, given what I don't have. idea I have no idea all I know is that the labor party is enormously ahead in the polls the conservative party has not bounced even a little in these first three weeks they are not going to do it and my message is very simple: the star goes to have a very large majority, I don't think you have a great plan, even you know that your six priorities didn't even mention legal migration, which is a huge SE, so I want us to become the voice of the opposition in Parliament and in the country, that is the ambition, but you must have a target for the seats.

I have no idea why you're not the leader. I travel with optimism, but that's fine, but people, if you say you are going to be a credible opposition or If you want to be a credible opposition, you will need seats, so how many seats are we going to win? How many I don't know if this momentum continues at this point? We are increasing 1% a day in the polls, that has been pretty consistent. In the last 10 days, if that continues, who can say big? If not, you talked about migration, and the issue of migration, the leader of the bed cry who we will talk to in about an hour here, both in the safe part as in the part.

From our debates with leaders he said that the tone of the debate on immigration had to change. This was in one of the debates last week. Do you recognize that some of the language you have used before and that members of the Reform Party have used around immigration is divisive and inflammatory. I don't think anything I have said is inflammatory. What I have said is that for 50 years we had a net migration to Britain of 30 to 40,000 people a year, from the late 1940s to the Millennium, which now under a Conservative government's net migration is 34 million people Every year, for example, we have to provide a new home every 2 minutes in this country just to cope with that migration.

I have argued that our infrastructure is crumbling. I have argued that our health service cannot cope with what we are experiencing. I want to clarify the figures: where did you get that every two minutes a new home is created for some for a migrant a migrant in one minute arrives in Britain a migrant in one minute arrives in Britain? in fact, it's actually more than that, but in simple terms, a migrant at the time they arrive, we never know how many migrants you say come to Britain. Well, 2 and a half million have arrived in Britain over the course of the last 2 years, one in fact. of 30 people on the streets of Britain today, in the last two years, that figure, I will say, is extraordinary, that figure, we have checked that figure and that figure and we take a look at the people who come and we do not allow counting to the people who have left a migrant in the minute is net, but the gross figure is 2 and a half million people and here is the thing, here is the thing, half of those who have come do not come to work, they are Coming as dependents, where did you get that figure from? uh, 52% who have become dependent, uh, we have even allowed 125,000, the future could work, yes, children, so, come the children, come here and don't work, is this making us poorer?, it is very It is interesting that everyone says that we need a net migration for GDP the size of the National Cake.

In fact, GDP per capita per person has fallen for the last six consecutive quarters. A massive influx of unskilled labor has reduced productivity, but international productivity was a problem long before migration. on a political level it is getting worse, so look, all I am saying is common sense, we are experiencing a population explosion that we cannot cope with, it is making us poorer and our standards of living are declining as a result of it and, by the way, "I'm all for people coming to Britain and Britons working abroad. I'm all for it, but the scale on which this is happening is appalling and for the Conservatives it's completely appalling that that little children can." To get houses, the fact that rents have risen more than 20% BL, you are blaming immigrants, BL immigrants, the population explosion, it is as simple as the conservatives promising in the last four manifestos to reduce the level of migration net, in fact, in three of them they did. promised tens of thousands a year, it is now 3/4 of a million, which is a complete breach of trust with the British public and the K lady Labor party set out its six priorities yesterday.

This was not one of them. It's interesting. Don't do it because you are talking about a breach of trust and trust has become one of the key elements, perhaps more than in the previous elections this year. You are also involved in this issue of trust, in a way you distance yourself from the debate, but given your role. In the Brexit vote, which was one of them, and in the promises that you made alongside the existing government at the time, you know there were a lot of people making a lot of arguments, but you were knee-deep in it about what would change if we left the European Union and it hasn't happened and you were one of those who told us what it would be like and it hasn't happened well, let's check the facts, if what I said in the referendum is that we would be in charge and if we did things right o If we were wrong, it would be up to us now that there was a reasonable expectation that we would tighten border controls and that fewer people would come.

That is why Brexit was approved as fair. Don't you think people listen to you as a politician? campaign, well, you are a politician, you are an activist and don't you think that they listen to you and the message they received with this would be different and it has not been different and therefore that puts you in the same place as those? the politicians who said I wasn't in charge, if they had given me the responsibility of making Brexit happen it would have been very easy to get out, it's a bit like where you are now on reform, you're saying I wouldn't be in charge in 2019, TRUE?

In the general election I stood aside by over 300 seats to give Boris Johnson a clear path to get Brexit over the line and deliver on the promises he made. The reason why Brexit has failed on migration in the eyes of many people is because the Conservative party has not delivered, but there is no doubt that we are in charge of these things. Brexit gives us self-government which doesn't guarantee success, but it does mean we are in charge. One of your candidates, Erin Crawford, has said I'd like to hear you talk about more than just immigration and taxes, for example, listen more um and your party has promised to increase the tax-free personal allowance which is currently around 12,500 plus a little over £20,000, one of the things I've been trying to do is get firm figures from all parties, total costs, how much will that cost?

It's a huge cost, around 50 billion, but it's also very imaginative, as we all know what that is, sorry, imaginative, what do you do? I mean by that, but it's not the kind of thinking that you get from others because they stick to orthodoxy, one of the big problems we have is that we have more and more young people who also live on social assistance and that gives us It's costing more. 100 billion pounds a year what we want to do and there is a trap here you see you are receiving benefits you go back to work you work more than 16 hours a week the taxes affect you you can also keep the benefits there was a terrible trap, so Therefore, the reason to increase the tax threshold absolutely those 100 billion that you say is that of young people, do you say that that number comes from young people who do not work?

That's the benefit, however, since the pandemic, a growing number of young people are They say they have all kinds of psychological problems, but they are also not incentivized to go to work. We want people to go back to work. I understand. So, the 50 billion, where will that money come from? A lot of it will come from there. the fuss that is going on the government has been creating money, particularly during the pandemic, that money comes into the system, it goes to the banks, the banks house it in the bank of England, the bank of England pays them interest, it is a fuss, It's a riot. and a growing number of economists and academics say that that alone could save between 35 and 40 billion a year, so you and not just another 10 billion to cover and that we have talked about the ifs or taken a look look at the yes, examining their proposals.

To change the role of the Bank of England and that is a very difficult and long process that is very technical and would not happen immediately. Well, no other Central Bank in the world does this. This is a complete scandal with the banks and, funnily enough, you know Paul. Tucker, the former deputy governor of the Bank of England, fully supports our plan to a growing number of economists, but look, I'm going to launch it and, by the way, I'm not going to call it a Manifesto because the word association with Manifesto is a lie. I'm releasing our contract on Monday, laying out all the costs of our plans.

All I can tell you is that what we are doing is bold and imaginative on the main page of the Reform website as it stands and I know it is not a Manifesto at the moment. I'm sure you call it commitment. I do not remember. It is not a contract. A contract. This is what we were. Bell. A contract. You say you will expose your reforms in the first 100 years. days is what it says and then you say it was produced with the advice of independent economists, think tanks and advisors, and a moment ago you said it's not about Compliance, that sounds like everyone else, any other political party would say we talked to Independent. advisors we talk to think tanks you sound like everyone else I've been called a lot of things over the years but not like everyone else I'm quoting your own reform that's what you said it doesn't sound radical that It sounds like you do the same thing as other people with the ones you talk about.

You think about taxes. I have just outlined some very radical proposals. Likewise, we do not believe that anyone should pay inheritance taxes until the estate is worth 2 million. We want to raise the threshold. To help small businesses, I promise you that what is coming on Monday is very, very different, that you have freedom and I must recognize this, given what you said earlier about how few MPs even you think you will get in relation to parliament, It could be a big jump. for you as a party, but in relation to parliament, you do, you give them the freedom to say things, don't you?

You won't have to back this up and say we couldn't do what I'm saying.that we have a labor party that won since the elections are over. We all know that your viewers know that they are thinking about economics in every way. Our Lives is actually remarkably similar to the Conservative Party. m arguing that for democracy to work you need to challenge governments and I think I'm in a much better position to do that than Ed Davy of the Lib Dems and Richy Sunak won't be there but the Tes are so divided I don't represent anything What it's all about, I mean, look, we're completely in the hands of big corporations, that's what politicians listen to.

I know that for 20 years in the European Parliament there have been 52 million people, men and women, running small businesses. Acting as traders of souls who are frankly going through the toughest time. I am on their side and I will fight for them. Our time is short. Can I ask you about your comments about Richy Sunak? I think I quote you right in saying that you said about him that this is after D-Day, so to put it in context, that was the moment he left. early and he's being critical, so you said he doesn't understand our culture.

He can not. Can you explain well what our culture means? So you're looking at it as if you're representing a group of people looking at it. saying that he doesn't understand our culture, no, no, no, he doesn't know where the center of opinion is in this country. Look, Rishi is Winchester College, Oxford University, Goldman Sachs, he has no connection with the workers of this country. who, by the way, what happened 80 years ago is something to be immensely proud of and the goal of and I was there I was there voluntarily I wanted to be there the goal was to honor the last remnants of that generation not those comments are clear , you're saying that his previous job means he doesn't understand the culture.

I mean, you're a trader yourself, aren't you? Yeah, I wasn't at Goldman Sachs working in a back place where most people go out. there that won't make any difference, I sure understand the difference I get along with people from all backgrounds, all classes, rishy sunak lives in this very, very narrow little world, so many politicians, you are a very rich man, so are you, no, no, not me. How comparative, Rich Su, comparing yourself to the average person, you are a rich man, so he categorizes wealth as disconnected, he is disconnected in every way when you say he doesn't care about our history, our culture and I started by asking you about the power of language are you able to honestly say that you don't see that's divisive you're putting him like the other he's not like the other he's he's a different kind of his skin he comes no, he was born in Britain For God's sake, don't forget, 40% of our culture, wait a second, wait a second, 40% of the contribution in two world wars came from Commonwealth countries, there are many people here who come from families who come from who.

You completely understand this, he doesn't and that's part of the problem. Our politicians are out of touch. Parents came here and contributed to this economy. Surely he will understand that many members of our ruling class have no connection to the culture of this country. I don't understand what people's problems are, I don't understand what their aspirations are and I tell you yes. May I ask you if you then believe that you are more patriotic than the other leaders of the party certainly what is your evidence for that day? dday does it for me I mean, I mean, it's very I said I'm sorry, I said the other leaders of the party and I'm putting that you are here as a leader of the party, we will talk to all the leaders of the party that you are, that you are sitting here . saying: wait, let me finish the question if I may.

Are you saying you are more patriotic than any of the other party leaders running in this general election? On what basis would I not take off my poppy out of shame because that is what K Stama did last year, please ask him when he is here why at one time in the morning he is carrying a puppy and at another time he is speaking in a Muslim community and he takes off the poppy and that's your evidence to say you're more patriotic, I think. That's pretty strong, don't you think? We appreciate your time this morning. We will talk to all party leaders.

Everyone has been invited to join us on the couch here. Niga Farage. Thank you very much for your time this morning. Thank you.