David Goggins: How to Build Immense Inner Strength

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford Medical School. My guest today is David Goggins. David Goggins is a retired Navy SEAL who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. He is also a highly successful ultramarathon runner. For those of you who don't know, ultramarathons are distances over 26 miles and, in David's case, often over 200 miles. For his achievements in athletics, he has been inducted into the International Sports Hall of Fame. He also held the Guinness World Record for the most pull-ups performed in 24 hours.

I should mention that David was not only a decorated Navy SEAL, but he also graduated from Army Ranger School. David is also a highly successful writer, author of two books, the first titled "Can't Hurt Me" and the second, "Never Finished", both best sellers. David's books cover many topics, including his autobiographical description of what he can only describe as a child and an incredibly challenging youth. His home was abusive. His school environment was abusive. Basically, he had no positive resources directed at him and. When he was 20 years old, he discovered that he was obese, meaning he weighed over 300 pounds in a minimum wage job he despised.

And it was at that point that David began an internal dialogue that forced him to explore the demons born from his childhood, but also the position he found himself in as a young man and then began the journey to navigate that dialogue and transform into the Navy SEAL. , the ultramarathon runner, bestselling author, and extraordinarily positive and influential man he is today. As some of you may know, David has given several public lectures. He is a familiar face online because there are many clips of him on YouTube. And he's done podcasts before. However, I'm sure you'll find today's discussion to be very different from previous podcasts David has appeared on.

The reason is that... of course, we delve into his achievements. We talked about the mentality that allowed him to achieve those things. But, today, David really lets us see what's going on. He lets us in on the form of

inner

dialogue that he has to embrace, that he has to wrestle with daily, sometimes several times during the day and night, to impose the kind of self-discipline that he knows so well. known for. We also delve into some of the scientific mechanisms underlying willpower. And we talk about David's current endeavors that include, for example, his own exploration of science and medicine, of which he has become an intense student and practitioner.

I should mention that several times throughout today's discussion you will hear swear words. Now David and I recognize that cursing is not for everyone and that cursing itself is different than cursing someone. However, we realize that many people, perhaps especially parents, may not want to hear bad words. If you don't want to hear bad language, then this podcast episode is probably not for you. However, if you are comfortable with cursing or can tolerate it, I assure you that today's discussion is very much worth it. Before we begin, I would like to emphasize that this podcast is independent of my teaching and research duties at Stanford.

However, it is part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast. Our first sponsor is Maui Nui Venison. Maui Nui Venison is the most nutrient-rich and delicious red meat available. I've spoken before on this podcast and there is a general consensus that most people should strive to consume about 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. Now, when you're striving to do that, it's important to maximize the quality of your protein intake relative to the ratio of calories because you don't want to consume excess calories trying to get that gram of protein per pound of body weight.

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Again, visit mauinuivenison.com/huberman for 20% off. AeroPress also brings us today's episode. AeroPress is similar to a French press for brewing coffee, but it is actually a much better way to brew coffee. I first encountered AeroPress over 10 years ago. And I've been using one ever since. AeroPress was developed by Alan Adler, who was an engineer at Stanford. And I knew Alan because he had also built the so-called Aerobie Frisbee, which I think at one time, maybe even now, held the Guinness Book of World Records for the object thrown the furthest distance. And I used to see Alan, believe it or not, in the parks in Palo Alto trying out different Aerobie Frisbees.

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And now my conversation with David Goggins. David Goggins, welcome. DAVID GOGGINS: Man. Good to see you again, man. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Good to see you. I think it was late 2016, early 2017, when you were in my lab at Stanford. DAVID GOGGINS: Yes sir. ANDREW HUBERMAN: We worked a little bit later that day in San Jose. And, my God, we see each other everywhere, but it's not enough. It's great to have you here. DAVID GOGGINS: Thanks for having me, brother. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Yes. You embody discipline and doing difficult things. I think we should start right away with... DAVID GOGGINS: Yeah.

Let's go there. ANDREW HUBERMAN: --the bold truth. But right before we got down to business, we were talking about learning. Right now, you're spending some time learning and doing things that I think most people probably don't associate David Goggins with. DAVID GOGGINS: Right. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Why don't you tell us about that? DAVID GOGGINS: Well, most people just look at me as the guy who runs and screams while he runs. While I do that to motivate people, people don't understand that my day is divided into segments. I exercise. I eat. I sleep, but I spend most of my time studying.

It's like I'm in the medical world. I am a paramedic in Canada. But I spend a lot of my time trying to analyze every detail because I'm not trying to just be a paramedic, learning about veins and arteries, and how the heart pumps, and things like that. I'm trying to learn to the point where I can save someone's life. And even though paramedics are doing that all over the world, I'm trying to be that paramedic that can really analyze exactly what's going on and figure out what medication goes where, just trying to learn the algorithm of what's going on.

So I spent a lot of time with that. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I love the word algorithm because when I teach biology or try to learn something related to biology and especially the human body, I need to know the nouns. But what matters are the verbs. And that's really what you're talking about. Just saying that's there, that part of the brain there, doesn't tell you how it all works together. So what is your study process like? If we dropped a camera into the room and put a microphone on your internal dialogue, my goodness, wouldn't we all love that?

But if we put a microphone in your internal dialogue, do you wake up looking at books and say, yeah, new day, let's learn or is it some of the same resistance that you've talked about around physical work? Does it appear from time to time? DAVID GOGGINS: You know what? At first he was nervous. I'm going to keep it real. I'm going to keep it real. So I'm not a really smart guy. And what I mean by this is that I was born with ADD, ADHD. As if my brain couldn't retain information. I'm not a genetic monster when it comes to running or lifting weights.

I'm absolutely at the bottom of the barrel. And people will never believe me. And they can do anything. Believe what you want to believe. So when you ask me this question about what studying is like for me, I have to go over the same page over and over and over and over again, while Jennifer can look at that page while she questions me, her. I'll learn it at that time because she... she didn't know anything about it. She will examine herself or she will interrogate me and she will learn it while she interrogates me. It's the most frustrating thing in the world how my brain works.

So what I do is I literally sit there with a pen and paper. And I have my books. And I review and I have to write everything down every day. I will study the same page until I have a photographic memory of writing the same thing. And then from there I'll revisit it and relearn it. So I'll learn most of it. But then I'll review and learn the little things within that. So if it's a medicine, I'll learn what the medicine does. First, I will even learn how to say the medicine because these medicines are not like albuterol.

No, they are very big words. So I'll follow him and learn to say the name. Then I will learn what the dosage is. Then I'll pass... and this is like every day. So it's not like, oh, I got it. Let's review... no, nothing, I got it. Every single thing, so I can't wait to participate in this conversation because everything I do in life sucks. Everything I do in life sucks. So when I was 300 pounds and 24 years old, it wasn't like I had some big epiphany of "let's be a Navy SEAL and lose some weight." No, I knew my whole life was going to be a struggle, so I just ignored it.

And I said, I'm not even trying to jump out of all this shit and learn to read, to write, to memorize, to become something I'm not. But through that process, something happened to me. And I realized... that's why I don't feel sorry for anyone. On this podcast, you really won't like me because people will think that maybe I'm lying or lying or exaggerating. No, literally... it was the lowest form on Earth, with no talent or ability to learn. And I literally know what it's like to hit rock bottom and

build

it up. So that question about learning is a pain in my neck.rear.

And I don't have to. Just think about it. I am 49 years old and I am a multimillionaire. I do not have to do anything. So all I thought as a kid is, man, I can't wait until one day I get to the point where I don't have to do these things anymore. But what happened as I grew up became a way of life. So what I do every day is what I do every day. It is a discipline. It's a regime. It was a choice I made. And the choice I made was: What are you willing to sacrifice and what are you willing to give up to discover all that you are as a human being?

And I was willing to give up everything to do that. So studying is no joke. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I love that you're studying. I remember that a few years ago I listened to an interview or podcast of yours. And you just threw it away like I don't know what I'll do next. Maybe I'll be a scientist. And I went, yes. Because I knew... because I know you a little. And I see your work out there, but we had met before, and if you decided you were going to do it, and learn medicine, which is what you're doing, learning human physiology is very detailed.

DAVID GOGGINS: A lot. ANDREW HUBERMAN: And people have to understand that when you look at a textbook and you see veins and capillaries of different colors, when the body is open, they are not different colors. DAVID GOGGINS: Good, good, good. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I mean, some things have different color contrasts, but it's not like everything is labeled when you open it. DAVID GOGGINS: Exactly. ANDREW HUBERMAN: That's why the process of writing things down by hand is important to you. Then go back and read those notes. Do you think about those things too when you run or are you segmenting your day like when you finish studying, go for a run and think about other things?

Or are you still rehearsing the material in your head? DAVID GOGGINS: So when I write it, I write it and I can... In fact, I'm looking at this table right now because I'm back to writing. So I'm actually there right now as I talk to you. I write it so I'm memorizing page 69. So I'm writing it. Then I write it down and that page syncs in my brain. So I'm looking at the book in my brain right now. That's how it works for me. And I have to do it again and again. So that page is stuck in my mind.

So I'm literally flipping through pages while doing these tests. And I'm taking these national tests to become a paramedic or advanced paramedic or whatever. I'm literally while I'm taking that test that I'm going through. And I'm like... now I'm turning pages in my head where that page was. And how I do that just depends on how I write it and how it's on the page. When I run, I can't remember any of it. I can't bring any of that because I'm running. The way my mind is wired now is that everything I do is what I do.

Because the concentration I need to... right now, I'm running. I'm not a great runner. I am not free of injuries. So, just like my first 20 minutes of running, I limp. I'm literally limping because I've had several knee surgeries. And my body was twisted. And now it's unscrewing. Then people look at me, oh, it seems, like I'm limping when I run. I limp when I run. My body is

strength

ened, so I am focusing on how to make the best of a broken body. So everything I do is a total focus on what I'm doing at that moment in my life.

ANDREW HUBERMAN: So it sounds like you've really trained yourself or somehow gotten away from the ADD that you mentioned because what you described is like a deep trench. It's like a V-shaped trench. I imagine there's a ball bearing, and it's like, ugh, and it can only go forward or backward in that trench. And keep going. It's not like sliding down the concave at the bottom, zip-zip-zip, like a tension. So it's like you trained him. Is there a similar feeling when you are totally focused on running versus totally focused on studying? Does it feel like, oh yeah, it's the same beat but something different or is it just a completely different world?

DAVID GOGGINS: It's a completely different world. To me they are both suffering, but it is suffering in a completely different way. Like when I was in school, I never forget: I think I was in third grade. And back then, ADD, ADHD, it wasn't like there was this medication or this thing. They want to put you in a special school. So for me, he was so far behind in learning that the most important thing was that we put him in a special school because he will never learn. And through that process of I don't want to be in a special school, I don't want to be treated any differently, really... like I've never taken medication.

I have never taken medication for this. That's why right now you see me looking directly into your eyes. What the hell is Huberman saying right now? And that's why I don't feel bad for people who have ADHD, who have learning disabilities. And some are impossible because you simply can't. But with many of them you can. But people don't want to go through the process of concentration, of learning to really concentrate. This is where my message is lost. It is lost because I can say MF or F because that is the passion that comes out of me.

It takes everything to learn a sentence. So when I talk about David Goggins, I can't talk about David Goggins in a way that's just cool and calm. Because when I wake up, I know the journey I need to find my greatness. And it is difficult. Nothing is easy. Nothing like, oh, I wake up and I just do this or I do that or I just... no, I watch people every day go through life, and it's so easy. To be where I am today, it takes every part of me. So when I talk about it and when I get here, you'll start seeing me, the pace will increase.

The passion will come out because I'm back there. I'm doing what I do every day to become a human being. And then nothing is easy. Like running is running. Stinks. But you have to make a decision. Do you want to sit down and get back with that guy you once were? No. So this is what is needed. That misunderstanding of people is needed. And they will never get it because they were never David Goggins. So that's what I need to do what I do. You might get something different. So, for me, everything has to stay in the studio.

Everything has to be in this. Everything has to be in... wherever I am it has to be there, me, focused where I am. That's why you're the second podcast I've done since Rogan, since the book came out. I don't have time for that shit because if I want to be big, I'm not trying to maximize money or maximize people knowing me. I do these things because maybe someone will understand me, get it, and say, I can grow from this guy, and others just won't. ANDREW HUBERMAN: It sounds like friction is something you're very familiar with. It's a word that I feel is projected upon us right now in bold, highlighted and underlined.

DAVID GOGGINS: Friction is growth. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Friction, like you get up in the morning. And I imagine David Goggins going to the coffee pot, stretching, good morning, sunshine. And you're telling me with open eyelids that there's friction. DAVID GOGGINS: Yeah, and that's what people don't... don't understand. The biggest misunderstanding about David Goggins of all time... it's like whether you believe in God or not... I believe... he put this lab rat, which is me, on this planet and said let me see what a beating, Abused child who can barely learn, barely learns, who has a twisted body, messed up genetics, sickle cells, this and that, let me give you everything that practically disqualifies you from the military.

But back then, it wasn't so... and let's put it in this and see what comes of it. So to do that, friction: You don't wake up in the morning and go to the coffee maker. In fact, sometimes you don't even sleep. What it requires is that when I am at 2 o'clock, it is 2 o'clock in the morning. And my brain is thinking about a damn drug. And I had to get up and look in my book to see what that drug is, how I remember it. And this is every day of my fucking life. That's why when I train a fighter or I train someone, I think, you have no fucking idea how great you really are because you're using the bare minimum, the bare minimum of what you have.

And if people can learn to concentrate, this is what is possible. Although it may not be pretty... like people want to make a documentary about me. I'm going no. I don't want to make a documentary about me because there will be regular people destroying me. Oh, his life is miserable. Who wants to live like this? It's crazy how he... it's almost like he's sick. He is psychotic. The most frustrating thing in the world to me is when normal people judge a man like me for what it really takes to extract greatness from nothing. It takes every part of who you are if you choose that route.

If you don't, Merry Christmas, do what you have to do. But, yeah, all these things for me... like I told you, man, I'm going to keep it real. I don't come here to talk about acting without a purpose because I go... when I write these books, I go, I try to simplify David Goggins. How can I give it to normal people... and I'm normal? But I found something that most people don't want to find. How can I talk to people and give them some of this crazy psychotic brain that I've developed? How can I give them that?

So I sit with Jennifer for years and write act without purpose, shut your mind, shield your mind, cookie jar, mirror of responsibility, shit that people can use in their lives. No, no, I'm glad it helped you. But the barbaric life that I live and that you have to live, the almost obsession you must have with being great, you can't put that shit in a fucking book, bro. You can't put a book. You can not. You can't write about that. ANDREW HUBERMAN: You have to experience it. DAVID GOGGINS: You have to experience it. And you can't even... after experiencing it, writing it in the book, it would seem like it needs to be locked up.

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Too bloody. DAVID GOGGINS: It's too bloody. It doesn't make sense to a man that everything, every second of the day, is trying to extract more of something. He is constantly thinking. He is consistent, constantly disciplined and never strays from the path. Whatever he's hurt about, he dismisses it. It is a conqueror mentality. And very few people, if any, can really understand what that is. As if he were almost 50 years old. And I've been that way for almost 30 years. What do you do for fun? These questions, I don't understand. I do not understand them. I don't... so yeah.

ANDREW HUBERMAN: I'm sometimes asked what you do for fun. I start listing all these things like podcasting, reading, and exercising. So some of that resonates. But I think what's really unusual about what you're describing, your process, is that from the beginning it's difficult. And I have to ask if he weighs 300 pounds, essentially... I'm using the words that you've described. DAVID GOGGINS: No, do it. ANDREW HUBERMAN: You've said it before. You had a tendency at one point in your life to tell lies, to try to get people's approval. DAVID GOGGINS: I lied a lot. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Crazy haircuts, attention-seeking, and yet all of that sparked something that is now extraordinary.

Do you think those difficulties were necessary to flip the switch? DAVID GOGGINS: I don't know if they were necessary, but it was something that made me feel... I didn't feel good. It was easy. With the brain I was given as a kid, it was easy to come home and think: how do I want to be a weirdo today? How do I want to show up at school today and be a weirdo? I didn't have to go home and open a book saying: It's going to take me all year to learn this damn page. So instead of learning that page, I learned how to become a character.

And maybe that character I created, that insecure 300 pound guy that I used to fake until he became some kind of man, let me become your friend, let me lie to you until you like my kind of man... when you have any masculinity, femininity , a human being, a soul, a spirit, any... I must have this pride because that is exactly what opened the door for me. Because every day you were a character. Every day you were a clown. Every day you opened that book in Spanish, or that science book, or that book in English, and you looked at it.

It seemed like a foreign language. And you're saying, where do I start? Where do I start? And, obviously, it was necessary. The more I talk about it, it was necessary because what happened is that I was tormented by the mere fact that this is my existence. And you have to live with that. And I lived with it for many years. So I sat back and said, Okay, okay, I know what this entails. And when you sit down, as screwed as I was, and I had a laundry list, a chart like this of what I have to do to become a human being who can make ends meet, who can make $1,000 a month.

Just getting there was like, oh my God, man, like... I'm 16, 17, I can't read. I can not write. Oh my god, I'm so far behind the power curve. And my brain is depressed. And my dad hit... my mom is not at home. And the kids call me black at school. And I'm like, oh my God, man, what the fuck do I do? And it wasn't like someone came and said, hey, man, you can do this. This is all me. Some people want to know where this cold man comes from. I'm not trying to be cold. It is thereality of my life.

It is the reality of many people's lives. And so, yes, that had to happen for me to be tormented, to be tormented, to come out, to extract the guy I am today. That obsession is something that is still there today because no matter how much you improve, no matter how much you change who you are, it is not permanent. You don't wake up and say, "Oh my God, man, you're David Goggins." You break records. You did this. You do that. People want to know how you can be so tough. Because I never turn that fucking thing off.

Because once it goes off, I go right back to David Goggins. And that's the guy I constantly struggle with every day. And he is a choice. And that choice makes you misunderstood. He drives you crazy. That's why I hate damn social media. In 2013, people wanted me to write my book. I did it in 2018. It took me five years. And the reason I didn't... I sat at the table and Jennifer was there. This was before she started working for me, or I started dating her, or whatever. And all these people were there. And they say, man, you have to go to social media.

And I was like, fuck you, man. It's poison. It's poison because I knew what I did to get to where I am. And I'm going to have these people, these normal, ordinary, fat, lazy people, exactly who were judging me. Because I know because I was once them. With all my hard work, all my dedication, I will make a normal guy take his little brownie, his little Ding Dong, Ho Ho, Twinkie, sit there with his coffee and tear me apart. Oh, he must be unhappy. Do you know how hard it is to put these shoes on every damn morning?

And I'm going to make you tear me apart? So, yeah, there's so much involved in this that I thought screw this. I never wanted anything to do with it. Either way. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I'm not a psychologist. But knowing your story from what you've written, what you've said on social media and elsewhere, podcasts and especially here now, is amazing to me and, frankly, moves me a little. I realize that is not the case. what you are trying to do, but throughout your childhood and youth no one stood between you and the world. I don't remember where I heard that saying that if a child has only one person who believes in him... and I had my trials and tribulations.

But I had great coaches, great mentors. I became attached to them. I found them if they didn't necessarily find me. But I'm realizing that in your situation no one ever said, hey, I'm going to stand here next to you or I'm going to get in front of you and put up a shield. And then it's almost like you have these different... it's all you, but there are versions of yourself... which is like you know social media... like I don't know if I have the media in 2013 '14,' fifteen. , '16, '17 to get in front of me while I do all this because I already have a lot of things to do here.

That's right? DAVID GOGGINS: That's right. But I had developed a lot of anger. And I still have it. And it will never go away for normal human beings in this world because when you get into the gutter like I was, and please, if someone saved me, come out and announce it to the world. There was none. No one. So when you know that... and then I'm sitting at the table with all these smart people telling me what to do and what the fuck and guiding me through my life now that I'm 40 fucking years old. It's the year 2000...

I don't know, 40-something years. Now I am 49 years old. And I'm looking at you all. And now they are trying to guide me on what is right with this poison. And so yes, what you say is correct. But for me, now it was more what I know. I don't need you to guide my future. I know what is good for me and what is bad for me. And for me, it took all the concentration I could muster. And I know social media, that's why people love to go there because they want to show you the bright side of life.

I am not teaching the good side of life. So when I arrived in 2016 I had to find a way to teach them what life really is, for most of us it is hell. And while people love to show you the cars, the house, the vacations, and stuff, that's all good. All that is happy. I'm going to show you the side that I know most of you are going through. And people hide very well. I don't want to hide anymore. I hid it for 24 fucking years. That's why when I told you that we can talk about whatever you want because as human beings, the first thing we have to learn...

I also stuttered a lot when I was a child. So if you hear me stutter from time to time it's because that was also part of my life. So it's funny. Human beings want to show you the best side. And they want to hide the worst side. For my part, I am going to teach you how to be vulnerable because it is the only way to heal yourself. You can't get by coming here and I'm selling you some damn books. That's why I don't have them. I forgot them. I'm glad people learned something from the book.

I want you to learn that the only way to grow is to look at yourself and say: Okay, like I did, longer table than this, what the fuck do I have to do to get somewhere? There was nothing good there, nothing. Yes, I loved playing basketball. I left it out. That's something I love to do. I do not care about that. That wasn't on the damn list because the list I had to live by was the same list that would take me to this table with you to talk to the normal human beings I once was about how it can get somewhere and how it's done. go.

It looks very ugly. There is no fucking passion. There's no damn motivation. There's no, oh my God, man, fuck... no, it's every day of your life just doing, no passion, no discipline, no motivation, all these words. I hate that so many people use these words now because they are so widespread. Someone sitting alone in the room and realizes it and says, God, this is going to suck. Where is the passion when you weigh 300 pounds? Where is the motivation when you don't know how to read or write? Where is? So how did this happen? I just did it.

I just did it. I said maybe at the end of this journey there will be something there for me. If not, I can read. If not, I'm 185 damn pounds. There was no magic potion. There was no, oh, let me wake up and watch some shit. No. All of those words are overused. They are shit. Everything is shit. Just do. You are living. How do you want to live? How do you want to die? How do you want them to remember you? That's all. That's all. Period. ANDREW HUBERMAN: As many of you know, I've been taking AG1 daily since 2012.

So I'm thrilled that you're sponsoring the podcast. AG1 is a probiotic vitamin and mineral drink designed to meet all your fundamental nutritional needs. Now, of course, I try to get enough servings of vitamins and minerals through whole food sources that include vegetables and fruits every day. But many times I just can't get enough servings. But with AG1, I'm sure I'm getting enough of the vitamins, minerals, and probiotics I need. And it also contains adaptogens to help buffer stress. Simply put, I always feel better when I take AG1. I have more concentration and energy and I sleep better.

And it turns out that it tastes very good too. For all these reasons, whenever they ask me if I could take a single supplement, what would it be, I answer AG1. If you want to try AG1, visit Drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer. They will give you five travel packs plus a year's supply of vitamin D3, K2. Again, that's Drinkag1.com/huberman. The word haunted resonates in my head. DAVID GOGGINS: Yes. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I think that's a very powerful word. DAVID GOGGINS: Yes. ANDREW HUBERMAN: As I was about to say, it seems like a big part of your process, maybe your entire process, is all carrot-less, you talk about the carrot, the positive.

And then there's the stick, the thing you're trying to avoid. I feel like it's... the way it lands for me is all stick and throttle. DAVID GOGGINS: That's it. ANDREW HUBERMAN: There is no carrot. Aren't you imagining, oh, when I'm a paramedic, when the book is published. And obviously, you set those goals and you set those goals. But everything is okay. DAVID GOGGINS: Everything stays. ANDREW HUBERMAN: No carrot. DAVID GOGGINS: Think about that. I'm waking up right now studying. Like I have an exam tomorrow. I already passed the fucking test. Think about it. Every day of my life, that's what I have to do to retain what I've learned.

Four more hours a day, I go through it and do that. There is no stick. Or there is only one stick. There's never been a carrot, so when I talk to people, I have to find a way to resonate with them. Because the only thing I want to tell you is to let me show you real life, what it's really like. The reason you're a loser and the reason you're not making it and the reason you're trying to go to all these... I go to all these damn conventions, I talk all the time. I look at the fucking audience.

And these people sign up, sign up, sign up every year and go to a convention, thinking they're going to learn something fucking different. No, you're lazy. You know exactly what to do, exactly what to do. Because even I, in my state of not knowing how to read or write, knew exactly what to do. It just sucks to do it. It's a shit thing to do. It sucks to wake up every morning of your life and say, God, man, I'm not smart. So guess what I have to do. I had to study the same shit I got one of the highest scores in the country on and do it again, and do it again, and do it again.

It's not just there. It's not there permanently for me. So, yes, everything is fine. Everything is stick. The only carrot you have is maybe, maybe. Because every time I take these tests that are really difficult, in the back of my brain there's a good chance that you're not going to pass, Goggins. This is not you, brother. This is not you. You weren't born like this. This is not you. The real you, brother... study all you want. But the moment that damn computer fires up with 150 questions, that's not you, man. And somehow it comes back. Happens. I passed again, I passed again.

But that real me here every time says it's not you, brother. That is not you. And I have to get over that voice. When I'm taking that test and I come to a question that I don't know the answer to, I think, fuck, man. And then say, look, I told you so, man. That is not you. You weigh 300 pounds, man. You sit at home. You figure out how to do your hair. That's what you do, how to get to school with reverse baldness when you're 16. That's you. Therefore, there is no get-out-of-jail-free card. That's why I say stand firm.

Because when they didn't give you the gifts, the only thing you can do in life is stay tough. And I know people can't stand me. They can't stand this talk. This is all you can do. There is no magic pill or magic potion. All you can do is overcome the man God created or the woman in you. And what that looks like is not fun. That's why I said, don't make a documentary about me because people won't see the truth. You'll see what you want to see is that I don't want to live like this. Well well.

And you will live exactly as you live now, wondering who you are, wondering what is possible, wondering what you are capable of doing. Is this what it looks like or could it be me, which one am I happy with? I don't know. I never really thought about it. I don't really care because all I really cared about was that when I looked in that damn mirror, I saw a piece of shit. Happiness wasn't in the mirror at age 16 or when I weighed 300 pounds. It wasn't like he was looking for happiness. No, I look in the mirror and say, okay, motherfucker, you did it again today.

You're a bad boy because that shit sucks. I have a couple of minutes of that where I got the carrot. The moment I lay down and go to bed, the carrots disappear because I stay up all night checking on the work I did that day. Did I take this medication correctly? Did I understand this correctly? Did I understand correctly? What did I do? Oh my god, damn, I'm already going crazy. Stick. ANDREW HUBERMAN: That stick is chasing you. DAVID GOGGINS: It haunts me. ANDREW HUBERMAN: He's following you everywhere. So there's no photo of Jordan on the wall.

You're not listening to the YouTube inspiration video. DAVID GOGGINS: No. ANDREW HUBERMAN: That would be all your voice anyway. You're not listening to your 10 favorite songs just to get going and then lace up your shoes and start reading. It's all here. DAVID GOGGINS: All there. I used to do that when I was fat. Rocky, I mean, that was my thing. Round 14 was my thing. And as I got older and older, that started to disappear. And I started creating... I had all these people that I used to look at. Rocky was one, Barnes, Elias from "Platoon," Jack from "A Few Good Men" when he's on the stand going crazy.

I saw a lot of these characters and thought, man, I don't have any of that. But they were characters. After a while, I lived such a disciplined life that every body I ever looked at, these fake personas, I built up as a man. And when I was younger, I had this image in my mind of what is a man like to me? And I have all these people who are badass characters. And in my mind, I became that. And that's what kept me going a lot was that I had this dream of becoming a little bit of this and a little bit of that because when you don't have parents to raise you and you don't have role models growing up, it's not daydreaming.

You start to create a reality like, mm, maybe I can be that. And after becoming this guy, the most important thing I can do in my lifeis to become that guy. That I once looked at all these guys and now I look at myself like, God, who the fuck can do that? Can. But what is needed is a discipline that no one can even... they don't understand it. They don't understand it. But everyone has the ability to do it, but they just don't want to do it. They want to keep asking questions and keep attending seminars.

And greatness is in you. And that's why once again... I say it a million times here: I don't feel sorry for you. I will not sugarcoat what I am going to tell you because you all know that what I say is the truth. Everyone knows it's the truth. This is what it looks like. And you know it too. You know it too. If you don't have anything, I hate to tell you what it looks like. It's ugly. It's not a documentary. It's not an HBO special. They're not going to look at me like, hey, man, you gotta see this.

No, it's like, oh God, this looks like a train wreck. It's like a nightmare. It looks like this guy has... no, that's what it looks like. Hard work seems horrible. It's not motivating. It's not motivating at all. It's not like Rocky in round 14, where he gets knocked down and it goes like that to Apollo Creed. He looks like a man trapped in a fucking dungeon. And there is no fucking way out. But you have the fucking key. But you refuse to use it. And that has nothing motivating. So yeah, no documentary about David Goggins. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Real life...

DAVID GOGGINS: Real life. ANDREW HUBERMAN: --David Goggins is the documentary. He is already writing. You are that. DAVID GOGGINS: Right. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Yeah, I'm going to share a little fact about neuroscience. DAVID GOGGINS: I love it. ANDREW HUBERMAN: But I think it's something you'll appreciate. Most people don't know it, but there is a brain structure called the anterior middle cingulate cortex. As we noted before, that is a noun. It's a name. It does not mean anything. We could call him Cookie Monster. But the interesting thing about this area of ​​the brain is that there is now a lot of data in humans, not mouse studies, that shows that when people do something they don't want to do, like adding three hours of exercise per day or per week, or when People who are trying to diet and lose weight resist eating something, when people do something that they, and this is the important part, that they don't want to do, it's not about adding more work.

It's about adding more work that you don't want to do. This area of ​​the brain becomes larger. Now this is what to me is especially interesting about this area of ​​the brain. And by the way, I found out about this recently because it's new data. But there is a lot of that. The anterior midcingulate cortex is smaller in obese people. It gets bigger when they diet. It is greater in athletes. It is especially large or grows in people who see themselves challenged and overcome some challenge. And in people who live a long time, this area maintains its size.

In many ways, scientists are beginning to think of the anterior midcingulate cortex not only as one of the seats of willpower, but perhaps actually as the seat of the will to live. DAVID GOGGINS: Look, we're talking now. ANDREW HUBERMAN: And when I learned about the anterior midcingulate cortex, I was almost out of my seat. And I've been in the neuroscience game since I was 20 years old. DAVID GOGGINS: Now we're talking. ANDREW HUBERMAN: We're the same age. And I was very excited because I had heard about the amygdala, fear, and the prefrontal cortex. You are planning an action.

I could tell you every area of ​​the brain and every... I teach neuroanatomy to medical students. But when I started looking at the data on the anterior midcingulate cortex, I thought, wow, this is interesting. And all the data indicates that we can develop this area. But as quickly as we

build

it, if we don't continue to invest in things that are difficult for us, that we don't want to do, that's the part that seems so Gogginian to me, that I don't want to do. For example, if you love the ice bath...yes, I love the ice bath...and you go from 1 minute to 10 minutes, guess what, your anterior midcingulate cortex didn't grow.

DAVID GOGGINS: None. ANDREW HUBERMAN: But if you hate cold water, if you're afraid of drowning and you go in the water and you hide your head and you survive, then the anterior midcingulate cortex gets bigger. But if you don't do it the next day or if you do it the next day and you enjoy it because, hey, hey, I did it yesterday, woo-hoo, happy me, merry Christmas as you would say-- DAVID GOGGINS: Right. Merry christmas. ANDREW HUBERMAN: --guess what, the anterior midcingulate cortex contracts again. For me, this is one of the most important discoveries that neuroscience has ever made because it is not wanting to do something, but doing it anyway that grows this area.

And it's almost like... I have a friend. He has been sober for 30 years due to alcohol. And he always says that the surprising thing about addiction is that he has a cure. The problem is that it only works one day at a time. And that's why you have to renew it every day. DAVID GOGGINS: That's right. ANDREW HUBERMAN: For me, the anterior midcingulate cortex... when I heard about it, two things came to mind. Wow, this is super interesting. And second, I have to tell this to David Goggins. And I waited until now... DAVID GOGGINS: I'm glad.

ANDREW HUBERMAN: --tell you because I felt like, well, for obvious reasons I wanted to tell you and I wanted to tell you here. DAVID GOGGINS: Well, I love it because that's how I've lived my whole life. I don't know anything about that. But people say, man, you're so strong-willed. It's something you build. As I will never forget, I was once on a podcast. And this guy says you were blessed with a strong mind. What the hell are you talking about? Was I blessed with a strong mind? That's something you have to develop. You develop that over years, decades of suffering and suffering again.

That's why a lot of people who graduate Navy SEAL training want to know... I talk about it very openly all the time. A lot of guys don't want to go back into that water, they don't want to go back to the hard stuff. And maybe not... anything difficult, anything difficult in life, once you get over it, it's like you become a prisoner of war. How many prisoners of war do you know who want to return to the prisoner of war camp? None. When something sucks so much in life (this is what we're talking about now) very few people want to go back.

They are happy to have graduated. I realized that I am the same. I do not want to get back. I have to return. I must go back because that is exactly where all the knowledge of my life exists, back there in who you are exactly what you are talking about. Well, I didn't know anything about this. But the way I grew up was doing these things constantly until now it's just life. I wake up. Even though it still sucks, that's life. Don't sit back and say, oh my God. Like I have days I don't want to do.

But I know I'm going to do it. I know this from years of just doing it. So that's beautiful. And that's why I came here with you today. And I'm glad you're talking about this because human beings need to hear this. You should stop listening to these tricks about this and that. There's no fucking trick, bro. There's no fucking trick. Yeah, you can do this and that, saunas and all that shit that... yeah, it's cool. There is no fucking life hack. To make that thing grow... how do you make it grow? Do it and do it and do it and do it.

That's the trick. The trick is going to suck. And that's what I realized. That's what I realized. That's why I wanted to come here today. I didn't want to come here and talk about any fucking passion and purpose and how to get out of bed and how to ring a fucking alarm clock, all that nonsense because that wasn't how I lived, it wasn't like that. That's how I lived. I lived, I woke up like every human being does and I'm going to hell, man. Today I'm a fucking piece of shit. How the hell am I going to get this?

And you fight against it. And you fight against it. You don't cancel it. There is no override button. It's the conversation in your head. So how do you do that? We don't have enough conversations about the real conversation that every human being is having. And they have no idea how to get out of there. But what they do do is that shit right there, man. You have to build your will. How do you build your will? Exactly what you said, man. Exactly what you said. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Well, I feel like knowing the name of something, the anterior midcingulate cortex, doesn't fundamentally change us.

But one thing I like about biology is that willpower, if someone feels like they don't have it, it feels like something other people have. But everyone, unless they have brain damage, like a hole in their head, has two anterior midcingulate cortices, one on each side of the brain. Everyone has one. Have two. So I feel like it's just a matter of opening the portal. And the portal... again, I'll say it 10 times, and forgive me, I think people say, oh, I do hard things. I do series to failure. And then I do forced reps. I love training with weights.

I love doing series until failure. I even like forced repetitions. But guess that? I like forced repetitions. So I'll tell you, you don't build my anterior midcingulate cortex because I like to do it. Anything you like to do will not improve this aspect of willpower. And it seems so obvious once you hear it. You kind of say, oh yeah, of course. But I think you really close that loop for people when you share what you're sharing today and also what you've shared before elsewhere. When you try to explain, friction is the critical ingredient. And I think people think, oh, if it's effort, then I'm getting better.

That is part, necessary, but not sufficient, as we say in science. But the sucking part, the chasing, being chased, the stick, are really unpleasant terms. These are probably the nastiest terms we've ever used on this podcast. Those are the... those are the levers. Those are the gears. And without that, what you're talking about, David Goggins, as a verb... Sometimes I make the joke, but it's not a joke. Goggins is a noun and it is a verb. People say, I'm with Goggins. But I think... I repeat, I'm not a psychologist. But I think that's what you're talking about, the stick, the friction, being tormented.

It is the suction part that grows this anterior middle cingulate cortex. DAVID GOGGINS: Now you know why there are so many people in this world who fail to discover their purpose, their purpose in life. Where I go? Because to grow that, now, you may not look like me, what my daily life looks like. It doesn't seem fun. Don't look funny. So it's a choice that people have to make in life. But the funny thing is that even the richest of the rich, who have everything, always ask me this question. I feel like I'm missing something. I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

I don't have what you all have. But you will never in my life hear me tell you that I'm missing something. And everyone is. They lack this feeling. I found it a long time ago. And I found it right there, in that willpower thing. When you are nothing, nothing, and you transform into something, like me, you call it happiness, peace, whatever the fuck you want to call it, people miss exactly what happened with David Goggins. Why do not you smile? Yes. Yes. But I discovered something. That's why you never... you never hear me say: I'm missing something.

I found it years ago. You find it in the suction. You find it in the suction. And you find it repeatedly in the suction to the point where you know exactly who you are. Most people are missing something because they don't know who they are. They never examined themselves. They have never done this experiment themselves. The laboratory rat. We are all laboratory rats. But you are also the scientist. You create your own self. Most people are missing something because there are so many things trapped there. I don't even want to say potential. I think it's a word... it's overused too.

There are so many things in you that God or whoever you believe in or if you're an atheist in you that you haven't unlocked, that you walk around with this beautiful wife or great husband and all this money. You say, God, I feel like I'm missing something. Yes, because about 75% of you is still fucking there, still chained because you just didn't want to find your willpower, you didn't want to find your soul, your will, your heart, your determination, your guts. , your courage. And what that looks like, it looks scary, like you're a scary little laboratory that you walked into.

It's scary to wake up every day and say, I'm stupid, but I'm going to find a way to be smarter instead of saying Man, I just can't do that. So you limit this box. Then your box becomes so small of things you can do. My box wasn't even a box. It was a fucking hole. And then, as I examined myself, as I gained some willpower, some courage, it became bigger than this table. But that's what we all do. That's why I wanted to come here today and talk to you about real shit, not shit tricks. There are no tricks, brother.

It's you against you. You against you. And if you don't understand that, you have a real problem, a real problem. I can understand you misunderstanding me, running down the street, shirtless, fuck no. Yes. I can have it. I understand. If you don't understand what I'm saying today, you're the problem. And you don't want to fix it. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Well, the children of rich people are a case study in how not having enough friction can destroy a life. DAVID GOGGINS:True statement. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I mean, I could list notable names in the press. But those are actually the least interesting.

What's probably more interesting, as an example, are all those we don't hear about because we never hear about them. They simply decline and wither. Or I think there's a large category of people, who I realize, as we have this conversation today, are not very successful. They are not fighting. They are so successful that they will never have to; you can get to the point where you don't have to impose friction. You even said it. Your bank account is in a place where you don't really need to do all the things you do, probably not even a small fraction of them.

DAVID GOGGINS: Do nothing. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Right. But you realize that the stick and being tormented are the fuel and the engine. And you'd be really crazy to give that up because you've internalized all of it. But for most people they are good enough. And that's why they don't want to improve enough to start climbing step after step. DAVID GOGGINS: Well, think about when you develop willpower. And think about how much I've built. Now that you know about this... I didn't know about this. But think about how much I've built. Everything I've done in my life, I didn't want to do.

Everything every day. I'm a lazy piece of shit. And I am one of the hardest working people to ever set foot on this planet Earth. And I say it with great pride because I know what I'm doing. He is not arrogant. I'll tell you I'm stupid. And I will also tell you the exact opposite of what I have done. It's the truth. It's the truth. So imagine how much I have developed in that period of time. But this is what's scary. The reason most people don't want to do that and develop that willpower is because it's scary.

It unlocks a lot of things about who you are and who you are not. And many people don't want to take that journey to discover who they are and who they aren't because it's not a pretty journey. I mean, I already downloaded it. It's not like I put it down once. I put it down all the time. And when you unlock it, you can't just turn it off. People say, hey, how come you haven't retired yet? I built up all this willpower. Do you think he'll let me quit just because my knees hurt? He tells me every morning...

I wake up and I'm like, man, my knees hurt. My legs hurt. My body hurts. But you can still run. So why aren't you running? If you can still run... there will be a time when you can't tie them anymore. But you can still run. So I keep running. When the time comes I can't run, the body will say, you just can't run. But if I can still do something, that willpower that I have created forces me to do it every fucking day. And that's what they don't understand. What builds a human being is starting with the small building blocks.

And before you know it, man, you become something that doesn't even make sense to most people because it's what you are now. That's why I can still run at 50 without any problems... at 49 with broken knees and a broken body, because my body knows you can still do it. That's why I do it. The moment you stop, willpower disappears. And that's beautiful. I'm very glad you told me that because I always wondered, what is this separation thing now? At 24 years old I started to build something that I didn't even know was going to be what it is now at 49.

And that was it. It was just that. ANDREW HUBERMAN: This structure, the anterior midcingulate cortex, has inputs and outputs from various places. But you probably won't be surprised to know that it is strongly activated when we move our body when we don't want to move it. I feel like it's like the David Goggins structure. DAVID GOGGINS: It really is. ANDREW HUBERMAN: It is. And it also has strong connections with the dopamine reward pathway. And everyone says, yes, dopamine. Everyone loves dopamine. I am partially responsible for people knowing a little more about dopamine. But dopamine is not well understood.

Everyone thinks dopamine hits. It's about reward. It's about motivation and drive. And there are pain inputs to the dopamine centers of the brain. Nobody talks about that. Everyone says, oh, you want chocolate, chocolate, sex, cocaine. Yes, all that is true. It will release dopamine. Pain releases dopamine. The anterior midcingulate cortex can trigger the release of dopamine in response to this thing we call friction. And that is something that is learned. That is something that no animal or human being comes into the world learning. We are all averse to pain. And like pleasure, like sugar, fat. I don't like hot surfaces.

But this is a learning structure. It has neuroplasticity, the ability to change throughout life. And here's the part that I think, again, which is just neuronerd talk because of what you already know and have done and exemplified, is that people say, oh, it has plasticity. You can change it. But guess that? It has plasticity in both directions. Can grow up. But just as easily as it can grow, it's like Silly Putty, it can shrink. Therefore, it requires constant maintenance. And people are not going to like that answer. They say, give me the energy drink. Give me the supplement.

Give me the... give me the sauna protocol that will make my anterior midcingulate cortex... there's someone out there right now who's going, wait, if I took transcranial magnetic stimulation and stimulated... yeah, probably - actually, I would. have made. During neurosurgery, they inserted a small wire into this structure. In fact, this was discovered by a colleague of mine, Joe Parvizi. To stimulate. And the patients leave, I feel a storm coming. And they say, oh, is that scary? And they say, no, I want to go through that. They come out of the stimulation and people say: this is the place we are talking about.

DAVID GOGGINS: Right. Exactly. ANDREW HUBERMAN: And learn. So the fact that you've maintained this brain structure... I'm convinced that if we took pictures of your brain, it would be big, and it would be bigger in two years, in one year. But this is the fundamental reason for not having days off because it can grow and it can shrink. DAVID GOGGINS: I know. What you're saying now is that I didn't know any of this. And I never... and always talk to you. But I wish I could put this on paper. And you're saying it in a way that people can understand.

I will never be able to put into words what I built and the power that lies within all of us. But you express it in a scientific way. To most people, he is simply crazy. That's why I don't like to talk about it, man. I know I'm not crazy. I know what I had to do to get where I needed to go. People see it as crazy because there are people who just... if you can't imagine yourself doing something, if you can't imagine yourself doing something, the person who is doing it is crazy because in your mind, the logic behind it, it doesn't compute. .

Therefore, you have to give someone a title. And the title for me is usually he's crazy or he's this, he's that. No. No. For some reason, I wanted to be someone so fucking bad in my life, that I created that. And I've been trying to figure it out for years of my life trying to explain it to people. But even though you're explaining it now, this is the easy fucking part. Getting them to listen to this shit is the easy fucking part. The part about why it's always the ones is because putting that practice, putting that into real work, no, man.

No. No. That's where the demons come in. That's where you say: I don't want to be better. I don't want to be better. If this is what it takes to be better, I don't want to be better. So everyone... that's why there's so much average. And that makes me so fucking angry. Every day I walk this Earth and see averages everywhere. And they want to ask me, how did you do it? I can't tell you how because you're not going to fuck... you're not going to do it. You're not going to do it. You're just going to...

You're going to continue to be that way every day you wake up. Like you said, it's like, have the coffee. Make the pancakes. Kiss the girl. Kiss the children. You wake up, right to work. Immediately, your mind is in action. Nobody wants to do that. Nobody. And I don't blame them. But don't be mad when you're lying in your fucking bed, in the fucking hospital, and you're 70, 80, 90 years old. And you're thinking, man, I feel like I didn't do anything. Because you did. You did not do it. You didn't do shit. You may have lived a great life, man, but you will always feel empty inside.

I don't feel empty. So call me whatever you want. There is not a single empty bone in my fucking body because I have truly discovered that: the magic potion, at least for my life. And it is very rewarding. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I'd like to take a quick break and thank our sponsor, InsideTracker. InsideTracker is a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from your blood and DNA to help me better understand your body and help you achieve your health goals. I have long believed in the need for regular blood testing for the simple reason that many of the factors that affect your immediate and long-term health can only be analyzed through a quality blood test.

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Again, that's insidetracker.com/huberman. People like to talk about what they used to be able to do. I have heard this many times. You should have seen me in high school. I always laugh. Like, yeah, okay. I understand. And it's not just the boys. You should have seen me working out in high school. He was super fit. People will remember a time when they felt capable of something. And now they are not. And you want to grab them and leave, wait. That was you then. It's you now. And yet people tend to think that the conditions surrounding the success must have been part of it.

And you can understand why. It's very rational. I was in that situation. I succeeded. I am in this situation. I am not. That was the past. This is the present. Ergo, capable. You see how people get into these loops. And as you mentioned, you spent the first 20 years of your life in extremely difficult circumstances. And then you can see how people get to a point where everything seems difficult. Like when you weigh 300 pounds... I've never weighed 300 pounds. But I can't imagine it feels good to get up and move. DAVID GOGGINS: It's a defeat. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I have a friend.

He weighs over 300 pounds. We've been testing it for years. But there is no victory. And he has crazy psoriasis on the back of his calves. And sometimes he smells bad because he can't wash himself as well as he would. He is big, big. And he attracts all my sympathy. But life is very hard for him and it's getting worse. He is a young guy with a lot of medical problems now, for obvious reasons. And then I think people like that think, well, it's hard enough. Why would you make it harder? Your message is a little different.

And you have the life experience. DAVID GOGGINS: It's very different. ANDREW HUBERMAN: You've been there. So for me to say, oh yeah, lose weight...he was a skinny guy who became a less skinny guy. So I don't really have a foot to stand on. What do you say to those people who say, listen, getting up in the morning is hard? Trying not to dissolve into a puddle of my own tears and my own misery is difficult. DAVID GOGGINS: Do you know why people connect so well with my books? For some reason, God put me in almost every fucked up situation on planet Earth.

So when I talk to people, it's not sugarcoated because I'm not saying it because I weighed 175 pounds my whole life. I don't say much to those people. Maybe you're a piece of shit. Maybe you want to be nobody. Maybe you're happy exactly where you are in life because, obviously, you are. Maybe you don't have the determination to be someone better than what you are. And if you want to live with that, I will support you in that. If you are good at being who you are, that every day you wake up, and every day you smell like shit because you can't wash your body properly, and your skin is a mess because your health is very bad, and you can't put your clothes on properly, you need help with that.

You need help like... when I was 300 pounds, I needed help wiping my butt. Does that make you feel good? Nothing I can tell you. If you wake up to this every day... you see, people are tormented. But they obviously like horror movies because they keep watching the same fucking movie. I do not like horror movies. Many people like horror movies. So I don't tell them much. I say exactly what I told you right there because I was once you. I didn't like horror movies, so I changed them. Some people just... become... like you said, it becomes very small when you're lazy and fat, your will.

Their will is so small that they do not have it.And you can't give it to him. There has to be something... this is what I'm talking about now because it's not a gimmick. This has to be in you. Something in you has to wake up. And usually, the only person who can wake it up is you. Sometimes you can read a David Goggins book because I was all this shit and then a lot more shit. But if you don't have a small flame, just... that's it. I can't turn it on for you. And that is the harsh reality of this life that I want to convey with so much desire.

Can you look at me. You can look at yourself. You can see fucking Rogan and Cameron Hanes, all these motherfuckers. You can go fucking Tony Robbins shit, all this shit. You can do all this shit. You're going to keep coming back and keep spending money and spending money and spending money with no results. You might ask, wow. Maybe let me try David Goggins. He's not going to help you. You have to explore, examine your interior. And what do you really want from life? Your friend and a lot of people here just don't want it. Guess what?

Have fun with your life. Go from 300 to 350 to 400 to 450 to 500 because you don't want it. And that is the harsh reality. I can't give you shit. You can't give them shit. We can give you ideas. But at the end of the day, when I was losing weight, I had to wake up miserably every morning cold because it was Indiana, November, when it started. I felt miserable. This is your new life. Take it or leave it. There is no happiness in it. There is no peace behind this. Stinks. It just sucks. And that's the only thing, if I could teach someone something, it just sucks.

And it's going to continue to suck. And then one day, you'll come to a special part of your life that might just get a little better. But to lose weight you have to lose weight, friend, sorry. It's going to suck every damn day because when you're 300 pounds, you go out to lose weight and you could probably get injured. So you went to work on the injury. And then you get even more depressed. This is what I went through. And then you're hungry because now you're depressed. It's simply a vicious circle. And if you're not mentally strong and you don't have willpower, you're going to keep falling into this hole versus the guy who sits back and says, okay, motherfucker.

That's why I say bad words because this is what's in me. This is what it cost me to be me. I'm sorry. It wasn't necessary, hey, okay, let's do this today. No. This really sucks. This is real, friend. This is real. And every day I go back. I'm late. I'm late. I'm late. So this is what I would tell your guy. This is exactly what I would tell you. Every day you wake up, you'll probably go backwards for the first four weeks before you lose significant weight because your mind will be screwing you the entire time.

There is no dopamine. There is no dopamine at 300 pounds. You dont have anything. Your hormones are raging. You have to imagine something that is more powerful than you. Something has to get you out of bed. And you have to create it. It has to be fake because you're not. You're a fat piece of shit. And that is the reality. So you have to create a false reality, live in it just to start working on yourself. Thats the reality. ANDREW HUBERMAN: He'll see this and appreciate that message. We'll see what he does. DAVID GOGGINS: We'll see. ANDREW HUBERMAN: So far, in the last 13 years, there has been no movement.

But I've had other friends who were addicted to drugs and alcohol and they quit after one conversation. I never went back. DAVID GOGGINS: That's amazing. That means they want it. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Yeah, just one guy, I won't give him away, but he came up to me at a party in 2019, the Fourth of July party, and he was like, I'm a bunch. And I go, what? And he says, I'm a lot. Look at me. I am 60 pounds overweight. And I'm going, babies? He goes every day. I go, how much? He goes, a case. He says, I smoke a lot of weed.

But he is successful in other areas of his life. And then I said, well, this is what I know. Give up alcohol and marijuana for yourself. I'm not telling people what to do. Don't eat until 2:00 p.m. Get on a stationary bike and pedal in the morning like someone is chasing you with a poison dart until you want to throw up. And I was half joking. And then two months later he said, "I haven't had anything to drink." I lost 30 pounds. He lost those 60 pounds. He never returned. Now he is super fit. It's amazing. Then some people flip the switch.

He is very self-critical by nature. DAVID GOGGINS: That's what changes... ANDREW HUBERMAN: It's super self-deprecating. DAVID GOGGINS: Yeah. That's what flips the switch. Think about it, man. We know what to do. We don't need Andrew Huberman to tell us what to do. We know what to do, each of us. That's why he turned it so quickly because he knew what to do. He didn't follow your exact protocol. It wasn't exactly based on... no. He knew exactly what to do. And just by saying a few things, something woke up. He knew what to do. And that's what people need to understand it.

You know what to do. Why do not you do it? ANDREW HUBERMAN: And now I'm talking about myself. These modes of passive consumption are very easy to invade. I used to have this and I'm fighting this now because I knew we were going to have this conversation today, where I like to start things on the hour or half an hour. Worst practice in the world for me because if I miss that half hour, I'm like, oh, it's 12:33. I'll start at 12:45. Ah, it's 12:45. I'll start at 1:00. I just wasted my time. And this is so stupid. And the other day I thought, man, I have to tell David about this because the new thing I do is start no matter what time it is.

If I wake up in the middle of the night... I have a friend. He paints in the middle of the night. I say, are you an insomniac? He says, I don't know. I just do it. Then sometimes he falls asleep again. Sometimes he doesn't. Everyone has their own thing. But I thought about this. I think, I'm not going to say that I'll start at 1:00 anymore because I know myself. If I miss the 1:00 ding and then my pen doesn't touch the paper or I don't type on the keyboard, I won't do it. But that is a weakness that one admits oneself.

DAVID GOGGINS: I love it, man. I had that for many years. I know I'm going to do it. That's the disturbing part: that it's going to happen. It has to happen. And that is a fact. Like, there's no such thing as a get-out-of-jail-free card, bro. None. That's a life I don't know. I don't have that ability. Or I have the ability. I don't have... I'm not good enough or smart enough. I'm not talented enough to do that. Some people are. Some people can start at 1:00. Some people don't have to start at all. If you lack talent, you can't sit down and say: I'll start in half an hour.

I can not do this. I have to start now. And after coming back from the beginning, I have to start again. And then when I finish running or studying, if it wasn't good enough, I have to go back again because repetition is what taught me everything. So honestly, you can get through anything. But you, obviously, are a very talented man. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Well, I've worked hard at certain things and developed some things that I've been good at most of my life. DAVID GOGGINS: You're amazing. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Collecting, organizing and disseminating information is something I've been doing since I was a little boy.

I used to give lectures at school on Mondays about things I learned over the weekend. DAVID GOGGINS: Look, look at that. ANDREW HUBERMAN: But they took me to a psychiatrist. We are the same age. Back then, if you were sent to a psychiatrist, people thought you were crazy. DAVID GOGGINS: I was one of them. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Yes, exactly. DAVID GOGGINS: I was one of them. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Exactly. Then I remember feeling like a weirdo. Also, he didn't stutter, but he did have a grunting tic. Come back when I'm tired. And the only thing that helped was hitting my head on something, shaking my head, so skateboarding was good because I would hit myself and feel like, oh.

I feel good. But that's not healthy. That's not good. Or just work. The work is what gets him out. It's like... it's like RPM or high. Anyway, that's me. But yes, I think that certain things over time, I feel like talents or gifts or whatever you want to call them, but there are many things that are extremely difficult for me. And I have learned from your example. I know that you are very humble and very clear that you do not have... you say, you are not going to get it by examining yourself. But I think the way you share it today and the way you've shared it on other podcasts before, there are pieces that really help people feel a part of the process of what you're talking about today.

I think we're elaborating a lot on this notion of being chased and the stick. I mean, of course, of course, now it makes a lot of sense why you wouldn't want to talk about sleep or rest or recovery because that's... sure, it's important. I heard you say, yes, you sleep. If you eat. Yes, you hydrate. Yeah, you'll stretch your psoas or whatever. But it's funny how that message goes viral. DAVID GOGGINS: That's why I said screw it today. ANDREW HUBERMAN: But that's not the only message you convey. Anyone can talk about that. So do I have that right?

That you are recognizing the dream is important. Recovery is important. DAVID GOGGINS: Yes. ANDREW HUBERMAN: But that's not the point. DAVID GOGGINS: You have to give something up. Yes. Ice baths. Saunas. Sleep. Nutrition. All this shit is so fucking important, man. I don't have time for any of that. To extract what had to be extracted, something had to give. You talk about yourself when you were younger. You would give these speeches and stuff. At the same age you were giving speeches, I was trying to figure out how to say it without stuttering. And I realized, as I got older, that all of these things are important.

But to stop stuttering, I have to build my confidence. And speech therapy didn't help with that. Nothing helped that. I have to give up a lot of things to be as fucked up as I am, to build trust, to be in a fucking room of 10,000 people, of one person, and not say, oh, and hang my head. Let me look around. Let me read these paragraphs first. And then before you read the paragraphs, because you're going to call me next, let me leave the room because I'm going to stutter. That's a miserable life. And that's one of the many things I did besides lying, besides being insecure, besides being immature, besides being fat, besides being one of the only black kids at my school.

There are many things I had to overcome to gain confidence. And in doing so, a lot of that had to go. A lot of that. So I became the guy who, once again, was misunderstood. Do you only sleep four hours a day, two hours a day? Do you sometimes not sleep at all? What is this, what is this and what is this? I know everything is important. Can't. Something has to go. In order for me to have confidence, because confidence is the foundation of where I'm trying to go, in order for me to gain confidence in myself, this fucked up kid has to do a lot of shit to gain confidence.

And along the way, the stutter disappeared. And I gained confidence. And now my life is a little more... there is no balance. There is no balance. It's a little more than it should be for a lot of people. But there will never be balance because trust is something that one is constantly in: trust and conviction are built every day. And then something has to give. And I'm willing to give up a lot of things to have that because I know that if you want to give someone kryptonite, take that shit away from them. So yeah, sometimes I don't sleep.

And sometimes I don't eat well. And sometimes I don't do this and that and whatever, man. But if you put me in a room with 10,000 people at any time of the day, I'm going to walk in thinking I'm the baddest son of a bitch in here because I know what it takes to be on this stage. And a lot of people wouldn't do that. So that's what it takes. ANDREW HUBERMAN: There's a question I've wanted to ask you since we started. And I thought about coming here. And I've been thinking over the next few weeks about this.

And I'm going to be honest and say that I don't know exactly how to ask the question. DAVID GOGGINS: Just ask. ANDREW HUBERMAN: It's about relationships. DAVID GOGGINS: Oh, do it, man. ANDREW HUBERMAN: So I know in myself that my discipline is much greater when it's just me. But that's because I had certain things from the beginning. But then I was a terrible student. He barely finished high school. But then when I got serious, I got serious. But I did it by staying away from everyone. And anyone who has ever been in a relationship of any kind, but particularly romantic relationships, knows that yes, you can get a lot of support from them.

You got this, honey. You can go. And you say, yes. I have this. She said I have this. It feels great to finish something and share it with someone, share a meal, get a hug. But there is another side to all of that that I would like to learn more about from you, and that is that there is a warm body next to you in bed in the morning. You don't want to get up. They have needs too. You have the mission that people sometimes need things from us. But also, many times, the people who love us the most, who truly love us and who want to support us, do not understand this.

And they are the first people to tell us, listen. Take a day of rest. And then this whole cycle, at least in my head, explodes, like you just want a vacation. And then it's almost like paranoia. I'm not saying anything good about myself right now. DAVID GOGGINS: All good, man. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Ex-girlfriends will say, yes. As if they remember it. Therefore, the support of people close to you is essential. These could be friends. They could be romantic partners.Whatever. But also... the knife cuts both ways. It may be the thing that can really undermine this thing you're talking about because the people who care about us also want to see us comfortable.

They want to see us happy. They want to see us in peace. They want to see us wake up from a good night's sleep. And they want things too. So how do you untangle all that? DAVID GOGGINS: Well, it's funny, man. I am unbalanced, but above all I am towards the family side, something that people do not understand about me. I will start to be unbalanced. I get all my things. But what I do is make sure my family has everything they need, everything they need, those who want to be part of my family. Some don't.

Some family members don't want to be part of David Goggins. I understand. I have it. This is life. I give those who are part of my family everything they need to leave me alone. I make sure you're damn happy because I have to go to work. And I don't mean blowing smoke. I don't mean running. I mean all that. It takes everything... I can't have you in my fucking shit. Can't. So I know that in order to have a family, I have to make sure that you realize that I will give you everything you need. So when you start complaining about me, I'll say: look, wait.

I dedicated my life to giving you everything you need. I need this time here to be the best I can be because this journey started with no one. And I make sure everyone knows who comes into my life. They left me... think about it. I was left alone at a young age to figure this shit out. I discovered it for myself and have had a lot of success. Nobody's going to come here and fuck with me. That's why I make sure to take care of what you need. Whatever you need from me, you have it. Money, house, my love, my support, I will give you everything you need.

That said, I do it at the highest level possible. And I say it with Jennifer in the next room. So please come here and say something if it's wrong, Jennifer. I don't give a damn. Say what you have to say. So when it's time to go to work, I hope you do the same for me because it takes every part of me to do what I need to do. So I make sure I'm very imbalanced with my family so that I can be exactly that imbalanced with myself. And this is how I do it. I let people know from the beginning that I'm not what you want in a man.

I guarantee you. There will be many nights, many early mornings, many times when I will have to be alone thinking about the process that continues in my mind. I can't have any discomfort. I can't allow this. I can not allow that. There are many things. But I let him know from the beginning. I'm very expressive about it. Sometimes relationships work for me. Sometimes they didn't. But that's what I am. One thing I did wrong in my life was that I tried for so many years to please people. And I did it at the expense of myself.

I was leaving a lot in the tank. And when you do that, you stop living. But the person in your life is so fucking happy because you're giving him everything he wants. They have his...his life is full. But you feel empty. And that's not a relationship for me. So it's important to me that you know exactly who I am because this is what made life. And I'm not trying to change it because I just figured it out. So I'm not trying to compromise David Goggins. I would never, ever compromise David Goggins. That doesn't mean I won't give you what you need, what you want, and what you desire.

But I don't need money. I don't need fame. I don't need shit. So I give it all away. What I do need is to make sure that willpower is used every damn day and night for the rest of my life because that's the only thing that's going to keep me feeding you, keeping you where you need to be, because once that willpower He's gone, 300 pound David Goggins, he may not look like it, but I'll walk with him. So, the things that are important to you in life, you should always do. Or you are nobody. And that's how I handle relationships.

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Amen. Something I could personally work on is that clear and direct communication because it reflects that feeling that there is something inside that is not being resolved and that, when I am alone, it is much easier. But of course, wanting relationships and family, I think it's also a healthy part of being human. And obviously, you've figured it out. So I appreciate you sharing that. I don't think I've ever heard you talk about it like that before. DAVID GOGGINS: People are afraid of that conversation with their wife, husband, girlfriend, boyfriend. But why are you afraid of him?

Why are you afraid to tell a son of a bitch, your wife, your husband, who you are, who you are, exactly who you are? And that was the problem I had... that's a problem that many of us have in life. Nobody knows who you really are. Nobody knew who I really was. I went to a school where there were a lot of black kids. A lot of black kids didn't want to be in special operations. I never talked about special operations with black children. Because? I was wondering what... I'm not going to fit in. That's not what they do.

A lot of black kids don't do that kind of shit. So no matter what I wanted to do, no one really knew the real me growing up because I never wanted anyone to know the real me. I was always afraid of what you might say or how you're going to feel or whatever. You have feelings. You have a life you have to live. That is why it is important that whatever you have in mind you let that person know. Therefore, you are giving them the option to be with you or not. This is what I am.

If you don't like it, that's okay, man. I have it. But this is David Goggins. So that honest conversation is very important, man, so that everyone knows where he stands. Maybe that person is not for you. And that's all good. ANDREW HUBERMAN: This world could use that direct, completely honest conversation. I feel like a lot of the world's problems are due to everyone dancing around these issues. DAVID GOGGINS: It takes a lot. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Recently in the news, I saw people lose their jobs because they don't say something publicly. You can tell them what it is.

It's like people, I think, deep down really crave the direct message. What is it about? What aren't you talking about? But I think now everyone is afraid of being cancelled. It's a big deal to get canceled, to have people think, oh, I can't work if I am who I am. Or if I don't pretend to be someone else, then silence is considered agreement. There are all kinds of complicated things. And I feel sorry for the next generation because we didn't have social media and all that. Again, we just insulate ourselves from that. There is real benefit to simply not paying attention.

DAVID GOGGINS: People love to lie. People love to lie. You know, I thought he was just one person... when I was a kid, I thought he was the only person who lied because he lived in a bubble. And people love to lie about who they are not. They love lying about who they're not, man. And that's, for me, why I'm so vulnerable and so real and honest. Find someone who will come out and tell me I'm lying about my fucking life. And for me to come from where I come from and have the resume that I have now, do you know the confidence you get?

How do I not care who... you're... you're going to judge me? Are you going to judge me? What have you done in your life? So me, being so honest, so direct and so sincere, that led me to finally discover who he was, but also to conquer David Goggins, the demons of David Goggins. Therefore, now you are just an open book. You look at someone, look them straight in the eyes. Tell me exactly who the fuck you are. You walk away. I'm okay, brother, because I know exactly what this journey required to get here. And that gives you a fire and a passion that people can call you black, they can call you, if you're lesbian, gay or bise, call me whatever the fuck you want.

If you put yourself in the fire and go out every damn day like that, forget about it, not afraid to go back in there, come on, man. Your truth is real. You go out every day, man, with a way of talking to people that people don't have because there's no truth behind them. And the truth is the starting line. When you sit in front of the ugly mirror and say: I am this, I am this, I am this and this, you finally started your life. Maybe 40 years. Maybe 40 years old, five, six children, wife. But the moment you look in that mirror and say: I am this, I am this, I am this, I am this, I am this, well, basically, I am not this, I am not this, I am not this, I can't do this, I can't do this, I'm all these insecurities, your life finally started.

And once you start that life, man, the truth comes out because you don't care anymore. So that's the problem. Most people just don't want to have that conversation to the point where they can go up on stage and a million people and say, "I am all of this." And have a good day. See you. It's empowering. It's very empowering. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I feel like the way they educate us in school, but also outside of school, is that they train us, as human beings, as these young brains, to try to figure out how to get positive feedback from other people.

It's like we were puppies. You have a bulldog. DAVID GOGGINS: That's right. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I had a bulldog. I saw the photo of your bulldog. She's great. DAVID GOGGINS: Charlie Dog. ANDREW HUBERMAN: They are an amazing species. DAVID GOGGINS: They are. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I think economy of effort or incredible race, excuse me. They are an incredible breed. Economy of effort. They don't do anything unless it's necessary. It's the exact opposite of everything we're talking about. It's something interesting. And they are kind of hedonists. Now, it is true that they will die to protect you. DAVID GOGGINS: Oh, yeah.

ANDREW HUBERMAN: And it's an instinct. I saw it with Costello. I'm sure... DAVID GOGGINS: I saw it with Charlie. Yes. ANDREW HUBERMAN: It's an instinct. But if they're not in that position, if there's no need to exert themselves... DAVID GOGGINS: They're resting. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Yes. So your bulldog is resting for you. DAVID GOGGINS: Yes. I understand. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Exactly. So you don't need to rest because... DAVID GOGGINS: Active Recovery Charlie. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Perfect. DAVID GOGGINS: That's it. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Perfect. That will be your answer from now on. People go, do they sleep? Rest? Wow, no. Somehow he got his bulldog to do it for him.

DAVID GOGGINS: Right. ANDREW HUBERMAN: But we're sort of indoctrinated into this way of being from a young age, where, of course, praise feels good. Someone tells you, hey, I like that shirt, or good job today, or well done. Or for me, because growing up in a big group of friends and I was never the best athlete, it wasn't terrible, it wasn't great, etc., like a fist bump or, like, feeling cornered. . And you say, yes. But you've talked about this before in reference to the SEAL teams. We both know a lot of people in that community. And the Teams component is an important part for many people.

And it is a wonderful thing. But there is a danger in that hit of dopamine, for lack of a better way to put it, since we can only derive it when it comes from the outside. You're talking about being able to say, good job, but also, just looking at your own personal history and saying, I've done hard things. And I can do it again and again because I do it again and again. You're talking about being a parent, inspiring you, scaring you, all of that from within. Very different from the way we were raised, which is figuring out how to get the cookie.

DAVID GOGGINS: He's funny, man. People want to know how I am always motivated. It is the invisible work, which you just said is a true statement. Those are fake doses of dopamine that people are giving you, man. You can't believe that. This is teamwork dopamine: I go running at 2 in the morning, at 1 in the morning at the gym, long sessions alone. This is real. I can pump out dopamine, the good dopamine, whenever I want. Man, I've trained alone 99% of my life. Nobody patted me on the back. I did all the work alone. And while I'm still hard on myself, I know what I did.

So every time times get bad for me, people are all these people, who's going to carry the boats and lo and behold... that's real. I hate that people know me by that guy because that guy isn't every fucking day. When they see me, they want that energy. That's not me every day. I can extract it immediately when I need it because when you train alone... and I lived alone for so many years in this misery. And you can get out by yourself. I can bring myself to such a level of true passion and purpose. And the feeling I have is something I can't even explain myself: I don't need anyone.

That's why people come to me to motivate them. Nobody can motivate me. I have a resume full of fucking motivation and every time I'm down, I'm like, oh wait, motherfucker. Oh, you know the truth. You know the truth. You know the darkness of the damn dungeons and the damn demons that fly. And then from there, it's like, okay. You were there. You know it. There was no one to pick up the backpack, to pick up the boat, to pick up the log, to get in there. Was you. Was you. There was no pat on the fucking back at 300, at 275, at 250, at 220.

No. That was you. So those things that come out of me, that are extracted from me in the darkness, people look for that pat on the back. Where is? Oh, I don't need it because what I've done is invisible fucking work. I built Frankenstein. So every time things get bad, DavidGoggins says, "You didn't have anyone anyway, you son of a bitch." Do you see how I'm talking to myself right now? That's me. That excites me a lot. That shit drives me fucking crazy. You didn't have anyone anyway, son of a bitch. Look around. There was no fucking team.

Was you. There was no weight loss program or mom and dad waking you up and telling you that you can do it, that you can be better, trying to build confidence. You built beliefs when you had nothing. Lowest point. You did that. So when times get tough for me, the truth comes out. And my truth is fucking powerful. It is real. It is tangible. I feel it. It comes out of my brain as I talk about it. I'm reliving every dark moment of my life to be here. So that's what people don't understand. That's what motivates David Goggins: invisible work.

But everyone needs that pat on the back. They need that training partner. They need that accountability coach. I don't need that shit. And neither do they. But it is what we have trained ourselves to believe that we need. ANDREW HUBERMAN: It's almost like there's this pill on the shelf. I'm speaking by analogy. And we took it and got excited. And we say, yes. But behind it there is another first aid kit. And it is in us. You're saying the real medicine cabinet is inside. DAVID GOGGINS: Oh, yeah. When you continue to overcome... and I had so many obstacles to overcome.

So it's actually a benefit for me. But the benefit is not such a benefit. You have to have the courage and patience to win and win. Before you know it, man, you have a full medicine cabinet. But there's no medicine in that son of a bitch. There is no pre-workout. I don't take any of that shit. All I have to do is turn my brain around. I put my finger there and say: Okay, that's a good one. That's all I gotta do, man. I got the Rolodex. I'm just saying, fuck you, Goggins. And oh, but you won.

Let's do that today. There's nothing I need. And this is what people don't understand about David Goggins. I can't show it in a 1 minute video. We all have this ability to have our own medicine cabinet. But unless you go in there and put the medicine in there, it's always empty, man. You will always need pre-workout. You're always going to need... I don't drink coffee. I don't do ca... I don't do any of that. I do not need it. I can run for 70 hours and I don't drink caffeine before. I have all this wonderful shit that I got through alone, alone, in the dark, that, man, when it's cold, I'm hot.

When it's hot... I can feed myself all the time. That's why when people say, man, why don't you lack anything, I can't explain it to you, man. I can't explain it to you. You will never understand. That's why I don't do all these podcasts, man. I love you man. That's why you... my first book, you made a blurb for me. That is why I am here. I love what you're doing for people, man. But I can't explain this. Can't. I can't explain this because people don't want to do this. They don't want to do this, man.

But I don't know, man. I'm excited to even talk about it, man, because a lot of people think my life is like, oh God, their life is horrible. Don't follow him. He he is crazy. Actually? ANDREW HUBERMAN: But I would say there are a good number of people, and that's a few... who actually do it. I think what I'm hearing today, and I'm really taking it in, is that a lot of people don't fully or partially understand you. DAVID GOGGINS: Yes. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I'll put myself in the partial category. DAVID GOGGINS: Big time. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Because I thought it was just the front center of mass, carrot, carrot, carrot, carrot.

But it's the stick. DAVID GOGGINS: It's the stick. ANDREW HUBERMAN: And he's being persecuted. And you know, I have examples from my own life, which is not what today is about, being very afraid and then changing things. My biggest fear is feeling comfortable. I don't have such a stick-oriented approach. But today's conversation is changing the way I think. I'm not going to walk away from this and think, "Okay, there are 25 neural circuits that can explain 10 of the things David talks about." And what I'm thinking about is the fact that everyone has a brain. They have a mind.

Forget the brain. The brain is just the physical structure. But what that manifests, what it creates is the mind. And everyone has that. So I think everyone has the ability to do what you're talking about on some level. I'll also be the first to confess that I think you're very unusual. Let's say maybe even n of 1, as we say in science. Sample size of one. Someone who has created this process for themselves and keeps them in this... themselves in this forward center of mass with the club hitting the back of their head the entire time. Very unusual.

But this internal medicine cabinet you're talking about, true confidence, not needing anything from the outside, I like to think people want that. They want to be known. They are afraid. But that they want to be known for who they really are and that you are describing the path to achieve that. And I will say that I am

immense

ly grateful that you speak to us this way today about things that you have spoken about before. But I like to think we're doing it a little differently. DAVID GOGGINS: Very different. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Because what you're talking about is a process.

They are verbs. They are all verbs. DAVID GOGGINS: All the action. ANDREW HUBERMAN: And it's not about success. In reality, it's more about keeping that friction at 10. And no energy drinks or supplements. People often misunderstand me. They think... I love that people get sunlight in the morning to set their circadian rhythm and sleep better so they can... etcetera. But people always think: they go straight to the supplements. What should I take? And then, of course, people think that what I like the most is supplements. And supplements are one piece for me. But it's like a small fraction compared to what to do and what not to do.

DAVID GOGGINS: That's why I didn't want to talk about it today. That's why I'm glad we're talking about this. That's all. That's all. The brain is the most powerful weapon in the world. And it's crazy how as a kid who wasn't very smart, I was forced to go only internally. The external had to disappear. The outside world had to disappear. Living so deep inside me, it was me in this brain and figuring out how this works. And a lot of people are doing exactly that, supplements, this, that. And I agree, it helps. But once you figure out your brain, you become unstoppable at almost anything.

Yes, you can't beat death. You can't whatever, whatever. Your brain is amazing. Once you give it the right conversation, the right mental nutrients, the right mental supplements, the right self-talk at the right time with the right punch, with the right proof of what you've done in the past, and you send it right. to the right circuit, buddy, you're a damn beast. A beast. But again, you just can't read about it. You can't sit back and be a theorist. You have to be a fucking practitioner. And that practice is where that becomes proof positive for what I'm saying.

It's like, God, David Goggins is driving me crazy. What is this? He's not crazy. And a lot of people, a lot of people, have listened to me the right way. And they come back and say: I totally agree. Occurred. Occurred. I say, it will continue, man, if you keep doing it. But that's it, man. There is no sun. There is no glory. There is no carrot. There is no victory. But there is everything in one. I just can't explain it to people very well, man. But what you get on the other side is something you always find.

You will never be lost again. It doesn't mean the journey is easy. There is nothing easier. But they always find you. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I love it. I just want to dwell on that for a second in the same way we did on Haunted and the stick. I think people feel lost. I have certainly felt lost at times in my life, many times. And yes, there is that thing. I don't think there is a neuroscience or psychology term to describe it. Someone will put it in the comments and say, oh yeah, that's what so-and-so said. But like you said, we're not trying to be theoretical here.

We are trying to be practical. The business of finding yourself and knowing yourself, oh. But it's like I'm safe because I'm in danger, and I've been in danger before, and I got out. It always seems to come back to the verbs. Again, I don't have a language for this. For once, I'm left speechless. It's like... it's about a process, the algorithm. And the reason... here, I'm simply trying to make sure I understand things correctly. One of the reasons you must feel uncomfortable being who you are publicly is because people want to focus on running or saying bad words.

And by the way, bad words are welcome. I assure you, I passed through laboratories where the three people I worked for swore a lot. But there was a rule. I couldn't insult people. So, my graduate advisor, a brilliant woman, unfortunately died early, everyone died early... I'm the common denominator. I had internalized that for a long time. Anyway, he said, but if you insult people, you're out. But you can swear all you want. So that's the rule I have. It's like you can curse all you want. Just don't say bad words to people. And if you insult people, you better be prepared to fight.

I'm definitely not going to fight with you. So you can insult me ​​and get away with it. But the fact of the matter is, it must be frustrating that people... because I know people say, oh, it's all about supplements and ice baths. Listen, I like supplements. I love supplements and ice baths. But that's not the full picture. It's just a gravitational pull. They are bad words. It's the race. It's his feet that are all in bad shape. It's the fact that he got a Triton. He's a SEAL guy. Talk about that too. And there is a gravitational pull for people.

And they are missing... that's the tip of the iceberg, that's what I'm realizing. I'm realizing today because of the way you're phrasing things because the biggest container is here. And like you said, how do you put that in a book? DAVID GOGGINS: It's impossible. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Because it's very individual. You do it your way. And you're saying everyone needs to figure out how to do it their own way. DAVID GOGGINS: Yes. And being misunderstood is very frustrating, more than I can imagine. I can't even express how frustrating it is when the bad language and everything comes from a real place.

I can't explain what I do without him. The passion comes out of me. It's almost like speaking in tongues because when you put in so much work and people say, oh yeah, there's been this basketball player, this football player, this... dude. No. No. Everything, everything is work. All. And people don't believe it. So when I talk, the motherfucker and the shit and the shit, that's what it took me, what it took me, the anger, the passion, the amazing... it only takes that because I'm not that . That's how I see it, man. What built this guy? Let's imagine being in the coldest water you can stand.

I always come back to Hell Week with this. He hated that water. I hated it. You're sitting there with your arms linked and you're in the water the whole time. And they take you in and out of the water, in and out of the water. When you have this dialogue in your head, and these people judge me on a damn 1 minute video, and you're constantly throughout your life, when you realized at 24, that I have to... I just have to, I just have to do it, and this is going to suck. Every day is going to suck.

And live like this to be better. And I put it this way. I'm in the water. The water passes over my head, the Pacific Ocean. It is very cold. February. Cold as shit. I've been through three hellish weeks. So that you win, win, win constantly, when this voice here, your true self, tells you get out of here, leave, you are nobody. You have always been nobody. And it's true. People don't listen to that. That's a real voice. That is the true reality of David Goggins at 24 years old. It is not a false reality. And then you had to create another voice here that said, you're better than that other voice.

And you're in the cold water that both voices don't want to be in. But you win. Then it moves from water to studying, to running, to losing weight, to how you eat and how you function as a man. Every day of your life, you are winning these battles. And then I have normal people who only have one voice. I never created the second voice. The winning voice is the second voice. They have only one voice. And I'm a piece of shit. And that's all they hear. And then they judge people like me who are here trying to be better.

It's something I'll never really be able to... it's kind of frustrating for me because I know most people. I know what happens in the brain because I studied the mind more than almost... more than you because I am a practitioner. So for you to be a piece of shit and get out of it, you don't just get out of it. You spend decades studying your mind and the human mind on how it works in good, bad, stressful and patient environments. You study it all because you had to put it all together to create the mind necessary to succeed.

So I had to do it... it wasn't like God blessed me with this brain. I had to create a mind. And in doing so, I discovered every piece of shit human being in the world because that's what I was doing for myself. So I know why you go to Instagram. I know forwhat... because you simply have time. You have time because you don't want to spend it improving yourself. Then I know why they misunderstand me. I get misunderstood by people who have a lot of free time to misunderstand me because they are exactly where I once was, which is a lazy, low-life piece of shit.

And it is the harsh reality of people who troll you, who want to come after you. They have nothing better to do with their lives. It's not an after school special. It's the truth. But I was like that once. I know where everything comes from. That's why I find it frustrating now, because I'm not as frustrated by the fact that I'm being trolled. I'm frustrated by the fact that you don't have the courage, the courage to try to be someone better than what you're not. And that's the frustrating part. ANDREW HUBERMAN: It's interesting because we were talking about relationships before.

And you said, in a very sincere way, and I really appreciate you sharing that, that you make sure that the people close to you, your family, have everything they need and also understand that you're going to take what you need to continue building yourself, period. . DAVID GOGGINS: Period. ANDREW HUBERMAN: In some ways, it seems like you've included the general public in that family as well. You're saying, listen, I'm going to give you what you need. I'm going to give you everything I can about myself, except that I will stop right at the line that, if I crossed, would prevent me from continuing to build myself.

And by the way, this relationship only exists because I don't cross that line. And I think as much as there are naysayers or people who try... I mean, whatever they're doing is pretty weak, in my opinion. I mean, it's like gunshots, that's what. DAVID GOGGINS: Very weak. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Many of us, men and women, old and young, heard and felt something in his message. Yeah, it seems a little crazy. My God. Do you never relax? What about your dream? Look at his feet. He's going to... he's going to get hurt. Listen, I'll be very direct. I have friends who were on the teams and they just say: what is he going to do when he can't run?

And I know the answer is to keep running. DAVID GOGGINS: That's right. ANDREW HUBERMAN: But it's more comfortable for people, even high performers... DAVID GOGGINS: Especially high performers. ANDREW HUBERMAN: --believing that if you take away one thing, everything will disappear. It is absolutely clear that this is not the case for you. I am 100% convinced. I only know because we're talking about this. DAVID GOGGINS: Do you know how many times I haven't been able to run? Two heart surgeries. Multiple knee surgeries. And after every knee operation, they said, you'll never run again. And I'm fine with that.

You can't run here, brother. None. This was what it was about. That's what they lost. What happens if you can't run? I don't give a damn. It was never about running. Why do you think I run? It's the worst. I hate doing it more than anything. Hence the willpower. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Right. Your anterior midcingulate cortex DAVID GOGGINS: Hence willpower. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I would start backing off if you loved running. DAVID GOGGINS: Think about it. Every day I get up. I don't just run one mile, two miles. It's what I hate doing the most. And I do it like I love it.

Racing 250, 260, 300 miles at a time. Without sleeping. And every step, when you get to the... think about this. I get to the fucking starting line cursing Jennifer. Why the fuck am I here? I hate this shit. After 70 hours of running, every fucking question I've ever had has been answered. Every question I had was answered. I crowned success. People say: What do you mean you have achieved success? To be who I am... so when I smokejump, I do it three or four months a year, sometimes five. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Could you, just for those who are not educated about... just give us a brief overview of what smoke jumping entails?

DAVID GOGGINS: Basically, you jump into the fire. Not towards them, but you jump over fires that people can't reach. ANDREW HUBERMAN: So, no planes and helicopters. DAVID GOGGINS: Right, off airplanes. I parachute. Everything is parachuting. Then you parachute out of airplanes. And then you fight the fire, you and sometimes four other kids or maybe eight other kids, boys and girls. And you're putting out this fire. That's why I lose millions of dollars every summer doing this. People are surprised. Why the hell are you doing this? ANDREW HUBERMAN: And you're breathing soot. DAVID GOGGINS: I'm breathing soot.

The knees are raised. Hitting the ground. Painful. Whatever. Talking to normal people, they will never understand it, so I don't even explain it to them. But this is why I call it limited success. I'm talking about financial success. To continue to have that willpower, the moment I become a talking monkey and I travel and speak 12 months a year, I organize camps, I do this, I give speeches, I get lines and I do this and I write more books. And shit, I've ruined exactly what I worked on all my life. And although I didn't know it until that day, but something always told me, this is a very, very, very perishable ability, this willpower that you have, because I have a willpower that I have never seen in anyone in my life. life.

It's a haunting force that just keeps me going. And I know that is my

strength

. If you have that, then it's worth every penny I've ever made in my life is the fact that I can finally look a man in the eyes and have a real conversation without doing this because I'm lying or I'm a piece of shit. Or I know... you know what a person is like... and so many people do this shit. They are talking to you about who they want to be. They are lying to you. And they go... I've done it so many times.

You walk away like, God, man. If I could tell you the truth. Why the hell can't I just tell him the truth? Know how good I feel now looking into your eyes and all the men I see because women won't understand this. Women won't understand this. Man to man, that man shit, when you look another man in the eyes and know that everything you're saying is real and coming from a real workplace, something you earned, it's the best feeling in the world. world. ANDREW HUBERMAN: You can say that really happened. I know for a fact that what I'm saying really happened.

DAVID GOGGINS: It actually happened. Who I am and who I say I am, I am. No more lies. No more avoiding the truth. No more nonsense. And that's worth every penny I've ever earned in my life. And I swear to God. Every penny I've ever made in my life, building who I built, so success culminated because I know that if I ever spend 12 months a year and don't put in several, every day, I'll be going to it. But several months a year I go back to ground zero, which means I'm just fucking with David Goggins. No Goggins.

No transport boats allowed, you fucking log nonsense. Just grab that damn Pulaski and dig. Hey, bring that damn bomb. Walk a mile down. Put it in the fucking water. Mosquitoes knocking... you're just David Goggins. You are nobody because that is where my growth is. That's where my willpower comes from. And that's where it stays. That's why when I talk to you now... and no one can talk like that, friend. People don't speak with this kind of passion because it doesn't exist. It's not there. They're regurgitating shit from 30 fucking years ago. I'm regurgitating shit from an hour ago.

An hour ago. Come on man. It's just being real. And I can't be on these podcasts. I can't talk to anyone without being real. I will go. I'll just walk away because I can't give you what I want to give you. ANDREW HUBERMAN: You said perishable skill. I think that's another set of words that I want to highlight because skill implies behavior. And when a second ago we were talking about the deep and true feeling of trust that comes from looking someone in the eyes and telling them something that you absolutely know is true because it happened, we're talking about actions.

We are not talking about perceptions. You're not talking about what you think happened. You know what happened. And there is something really concrete about actions. I mean, that's the interesting thing: we're talking about the mind. But actions are the manifestation of the mind. And with the things that stay here, people die. Does not go anywhere. A long time ago, someone said... I don't remember what the context was. He was a neuroscientist. He said that most emotions are just emotions. They are in there. You don't have to do anything with them. And I think there are certain emotions that you want to do something with.

But I think people forget this. They feel miserable, as if they were going to dissolve in a puddle of their own tears. No one ever died from an emotion. But they feel... they overwhelm us like a tidal wave. It will sink us and drown us. It's very interesting to me because I think people... listen, you have a gravitational pull. People can feel the energy. I think so, they either completely misunderstand you or partially. There is only one man on the planet who truly understands you. I think there is one woman, Jennifer, who probably understands you as much as anyone.

And then the rest of us hold on, try to figure it out. But you're saying, go inward. So first, go inward. And then there are actions. Interior and actions. Now, the internal piece is something I'd like to spend a little time on because there are a couple of characters in the story, people who were in concentration camps. Nelson Mandela. I mean, I'm not sure he had Instagram on there. I'm pretty sure he didn't. And I don't think there was anyone training him, hey, you'll get out someday. And, in fact, you are going to lead an entire country.

I'm pretty sure it didn't work out that way. I had to find it here. I had to find it between his ears. And there are other examples. But that's important. So, the process of going within does it for you... and here I will ask for suggestions because I think people want... there are those of us who want to develop this skill. Back off. You may stop calling for much of the day. Send text messages. The requests, the this, the that. Anyone who knows you knows: we've communicated a few text messages, but most of them come through a filter.

She's great. She knows you. And she knows how to protect your time. DAVID GOGGINS: And that hurts people's feelings. People get angry about that. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Hey, God bless you... God bless you, Jennifer. Interrupting yourself, when you're there, you say it's just you. And the voices that emerge are not pleasant. And then, at some point, it turns into action. OK. What is the action selection process? That's the piece that I feel like there's like a bridge to build here, if you can, if you want. DAVID GOGGINS: So the action is, what's next? ANDREW HUBERMAN: Yeah, so when you go to sleep at night, when that happens, do you know what you're going to do the next day?

Is it pre-planned? DAVID GOGGINS: Yes. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Okay. DAVID GOGGINS: Yes. It's always the same. ANDREW HUBERMAN: You're not building it as you go. DAVID GOGGINS: No. Nothing is on the fly. So how it works internally for me, I'll express it exactly as it is. I'm an artist. And every day I paint the Mona Lisa. Every day. And but it's a different one. It is not the same painting. So every day I wake up, even if I do the same thing, it takes a different way to get there. So every day, in my mind, I go through my mind.

I'm like... and a good painter doesn't limit himself to painting. He needs to create. And you can't create with phones and everything around you. So you have to block yourself. You only do two podcasts a year. You get blocked. And you're painting this thing inside. And you're going through all these different paint colors and everything else. And you can only find the right painting if you spend the right amount of time in your brain. So every day I literally go through my mind and paint. I am creating this masterpiece. And the masterpiece is always me. And but to do that, you can't have distractions because if you're talking to an artist and he's trying to think of the next painting, he can't.

It is impossible to listen to yourself and what your mind and body tell you we should do. Because people don't do enough. They don't do any of that. They have no passion. They lack passion, drive and determination because you haven't spent time with yourself. Your mind will tell you what's next. But you haven't made the time to go, okay, let me figure this out. You're searching for "let me Google this," "let me Google that," and "let me." You won't find it there because there are billions of people in this world. And everyone is supposed to be an individual.

But we have a herd mentality. That's why you're so fucking lost. Why am I so unique? I'm being exactly what I was supposed to be. I don't follow shit. And when he followed things, he was like everyone else. The moment I said, okay, man, wait, dude, you don't like this, you don't like this, you don't like this, who are you, David Goggins? Who are you supposed to be? Miraculously, all these things... I couldn't even... the list of things I had to do, just, bam! It's like, fuck. OK. Wow. Once you sit with yourself and say, "Okay, I don't want to be like Michael Jordan or Jim Brown; they were both born on my birthday." Then I looked at his birthday.

I said, oh, maybe I can be one of the... I can't. I'm going to be David fucking Goggins. And that looks like this. It just arrived. Everything was flooded. So every day of my life, a different thing comes up that I have to do. But no one knows what to do because everyone else follows theSteps. Like the Republican and Democratic parties. I'm not a politician... ANDREW HUBERMAN: Me neither. DAVID GOGGINS: --not at all for this reason. Republicans are going to vote for Republicans. Democrats are going to vote Democrat. You're not even a fucking human being, bro.

There's no way all of you motherfuckers are agreeing to the same shit. And I know it's not. So once you discover yourself and who you are, all the answers come. Therefore, every night a different picture is painted. And it's a beautiful painting to me. I say, okay. That's all. It may seem the same to most motherfuckers. But the end result is fucking different. That's why my... if you look at what I've done in 49 years, it's more than most people will do in their lifetime because they were racing drivers. And that's what they did. They drove a fucking car.

It's great. I was like shit because that's exactly what the painting said we should do. It's what the mind was telling us to do. I wasn't saying just drive a car, so that then that race car driver wouldn't know what the fuck to do. He retires from being a racing driver and they are lost. People say, how are you? I still do not understand. Dude, you're never going to fill your list. But you never found your list because it was never presented in front of you because your head was full of shit because you never stopped for many minutes, many years and said, okay, it's you and me.

Let go. And just... bam. It's right there. It's right there. ANDREW HUBERMAN: I'm not a psychologist, as I mentioned before. But here I am going to venture a hypothesis. I think you have mastered the internal dialogue process. But when I say dialogue, I think most people think, oh, the

inner

voice, the chatter. But that's only half of a dialogue. A dialogue is a two-way street. So I completely agree because I know from experience that when we go inward, a lot of times we hear things, if we're really honest with ourselves, it's like, oh no, I don't want to think about that.

No. And then we started looking outside. Or we start trying to divert our attention or distract ourselves. And there are a million reasons we are given, excuses and seemingly good justifications to do it. But dialogue is a two-way street. And I realized that while you were saying what you were saying, I was paying close attention. And I realized that David Goggins is talking about the voice that emerges, including the terrible things that no one wants to hear about themselves. But he also has the dialogue in which he knows the opposite voice. He says, yes, you are right.

And then I'm going to do this. Or maybe not, remember this. You are in a dialogue, a two-way dialogue, not a one-way dialogue. There are books written by famous psychologists on talk, which attempt to change your internal narrative. You're like, bring in the internal... the internal narrative, that's what going inward is all about. But it is not a single voice. Again, there is a hypothesis. And I don't pretend to know everything. God knows I don't know everything. But you dominate the dialogue. And if there are three voices, strong, medium and weak, there you say, let's all go to the table.

So you have a symphony of voices there that are just you, that you know are you. And you know how to have those conversations... you're not afraid to be in those conversations. And then you know what the outcome of the committee's decision is and you put it into practice in the real world. And the world only sees the action. DAVID GOGGINS: That's it. ANDREW HUBERMAN: And only you can know your internal dialogue. And only I can know my internal dialogue. And the only way to, quote, "know" is to spend a ton of time there. DAVID GOGGINS: That's right.

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Okay. DAVID GOGGINS: A lifetime. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Got it. DAVID GOGGINS: A lifetime. Think about it. For me to be sitting here in front of you, you're not going to call a 300-pound Ecolab guy to come sit here. Could you. I don't know. Maybe. ANDREW HUBERMAN: Probably not. DAVID GOGGINS: Probably not. Think about this. What we teach people is kindness, kindness towards oneself. Do you think if he taught me to be kind... and I'm okay with it? God, so many people... so many people take me out of context, it's ridiculous. Take it however the fuck you want to take it.

When I was 300 pounds, where do you think that conversation would take me if he spoke kindly to me? I'll tell you where it takes me. Back to the 7-Eleven with another box of mini chocolate donuts and a chocolate shake. That is the only voice. That's the only voice most of us have that you're talking about. If you don't have a conversation there, the other voice you create says, OK, what does this look like? It looks very ugly. That kind conversation for me disappeared a long time ago, so the dialogue is now what you see. A lot of action.

Because most people don't act because there is a person speaking. And that person is always taking you down the same path, the path that makes you feel very comfortable and happy with yourself. The moment you create the other voice, there is conflict. Just battles. Only wars. Only defeat. One thing I learned, and I taught myself this, and people say, I don't understand what you're saying, I'm going to try to explain it real quick. I didn't teach myself to win first. I taught myself failure. I taught myself how to fail. And people like it, that's very depressing.

It is? When you weigh 300 pounds and you can't read or write and you're screwed, do you know how many times you're going to fail in that process? So if you don't know how to fail, there is no victory. I never talked about winning because I knew the path to victory would be years of failure first. So I taught myself how to fail correctly. Nobody teaches you how to fail. But if you're going to look at insurmountable odds that make absolutely no sense, a black kid who can't swim, 300 pounds, is going to be a Navy SEAL. OK.

You better teach yourself how to fail first because if you stay in failure for too long, you will never get out of it. So the first part of my success was learning how to fail correctly. And then eventually I started getting some wins. But that's what people don't understand. When you've buried yourself in such a deep fucking hole, you better first talk about the failures you're going to have. And that's when that other voice emerges. It tells you that we have to do something. But he also tells you, boy, I'm not going to lie to you, Goggins.

You're in for a fucking promotion, bro. They're going to beat you up and make fun of you, the outside noise and the inside noise. Both voices will tell you to fuck off. You're in hell, brother. Am. So you better learn to fail. ANDREW HUBERMAN: So this is what you mean when you say that anything anyone says is meaningless? DAVID GOGGINS: Insignificant as hell. ANDREW HUBERMAN: It's the gun shot because it is, because the voice in your own head is much worse. And I should say, I'm sorry, one of the voices in your head. I am being very detailed, almost surgical, because I think that this internal dialogue thing we believe is a single voice.

But you are making it clear that there are many voices. DAVID GOGGINS: It is. And the thing is, you have to really be... and sometimes all the voices are telling you the wrong shit, man. But through years, years, not even a podcast or listening to a book or reading a book, years of sacrifice, of suffering, of diligent, precise work on what you want to do for yourself, not like, oh, let me do a lot. shitty. Let me... I want to be in every possible task. No. Identify what I want to do with my life. The thing is, you have all these voices telling you that you're screwed and that this is going to be hard.

But for some reason, you put so much practice into yourself that you can ignore everyone who tells you that you won't make it. And you will still be able to achieve it because you have practiced and you know this is the process. It is such a difficult task that all voices say no. But you still have the conviction that I know I can do it. And that's what it cost me to get here. 20, 30 years ago, I had this... 35 or whatever, 25 years ago, a pipe dream. And from then on, every voice said, "You're fucking crazy." But when you practice that every day, you bind them.

And I mean, run. It's just a metaphor for life. When you tie those sons of bitches up every day, you soon win. Very soon you will win. If you have the courage, the heart, the dedication and the mentality everyone can go to hell, I know what I know. I've listened to myself enough to know that. I know what I know. None of you can hear what I'm hearing. And that's what people don't do enough. They don't listen to your journey. They listen to everyone else's shit. Before you know it, I'm crazy. But if I'm so fucking crazy, why am I so successful?

How does that happen? But I'm so wrong and screwed. And don't listen to him. Why am I the only one who does a lot of shit? Why am I a pioneer? Because? How is that possible? How can you be screwed and at the same time have made yourself? No. No. Obviously, you are not looking at the truth in front of you. The truth in front of you is that it sucks. It is painful. It's fucking numbing. And that is the truth. And that's why a lot of people don't like to listen to me because that's what it takes, to create another voice and sometimes do it alone.

All the time doing it alone because no one is going to believe in you. And that's that. ANDREW HUBERMAN: What I'm about to say is not a guess. And I can say that with confidence because I did a four-episode guest series with a brilliant psychiatrist, a guy named Paul Conti. He's from Trenton. He's a Stanford and Harvard educated guy. It also has a lot of street in it. He's had his own difficulties, real difficulties. He is brilliant. And he said something I'll never forget: We think that the forebrain, the part of our brain that creates strategies, etc., is the supercomputer.

He said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No no no. He says that the supercomputer of the brain is the unconscious mind. It is the part of our mind that controls almost everything. And unfortunately, most people do not make the effort to understand how their unconscious controls them. And that idea is terrifying, like your mind is controlling you. And I'm not going to get into the debate about free will. I believe in at least some will. I believe in what you are describing and this internal dialogue. I think you have access to your unconscious mind by listening to the dialogue, going inward.

We know this to be true during sleep, dreams, meditation and just excluding everything else, excluding all external noise, which is full of things that draw us towards it. Noise makes it sound bad, but it is the gravitational pull of all things that allows us to be distracted without knowing it. The icecream. They have a cookie. Merry Christmas. The unconscious mind, this huge piece of iceberg underneath that Paul calls the supercomputer, he says it knowingly as a neurobiologist, a psychiatrist, a psychologist, so you really know, that's the piece that if you do real introspection, he calls it the closets. .

You have to look in the closets. And it's often very scary what you find there. And most people say, "I don't even want to know the closets are there." But you're opening all the closet doors. And then you're... and you're extremely deliberate with what you put into action. You're not just going to say, oh, like, I'm angry, so I'm going to act angry. Or I'm tired, so I'm going to act tired. You are choosing very carefully what to do. And that's a process that I guess came to you. Does it come to you like, okay, it makes sense why running makes sense?

It makes sense why the smoke jump makes sense. So it seems like you spend a lot of your time understanding yourself and understanding yourself. And when people don't understand you, it must be very frustrating because most people don't understand themselves. So we're all running around saying, you're this and you're that because most people are just not willing to look inward. And I include myself, by the way. I mean, I've done quite a bit of introspection. But today I'm inspired, that word, inspired, but it's true, motivated to start going more inward because it's scary. It's like we don't know what's in those closets, and it's terrifying, especially because we don't.

DAVID GOGGINS: And those are the first to open up. And like you said, you have to go through those closets. I spring clean every fucking day in those dark closets. Those dark cabinets are the ones I start with first. That's the real me, man. That's the real me. That's why I'm not ashamed. I do not hide. I used to hide. I'm not hiding anymore. He has all the reason. I don't know all the fucking science behind this shit. I know what I know. That's why I don't listen to anyone anymore. I don't listen to shit. I think most people are full of shit because I know it.

I know the deep, dark secrets of those damn closets. It's ugly, man. And every day I talk to them. Every day I clean them. I'm cleaning them and I'm talking to the same demons that came out of those damn closets while I'm cleaning them. Sometimes they go back into them. Is not easy. And that's why most of us just... that's why I get misunderstood, because what comes out of those cabinets that I'm cleaning out, sometimes you see on Instagram. Sometimes you'll see it on a podcast. Sometimes you see it in this one. I turn people off.

Open your own cabinets. And then go talk about it. Let me see how pretty it looks. Let me see how pretty you sound. Let me see how close together your words are. I bet you a damn or a son of a bitch comes out because to go back in there to clean the same damn cabinet in theThe demon is out, we need some big balls, brother. To do it every day of your life. Go back there and do a deep clean every day, not once a damn year, but once every decade. Every day you know it gets dusty.

And every day doesn't start with victories. Don't go, oh, this is nice. Look at my... look at my "I love myself" wall. Let me clean up. This is a little dusty. No. I'm going straight to the things that will keep me buried. And I go there first because if I don't clean them first, the day doesn't start. So what you're telling me is true. And like I told you many times today, I never know how to explain this shit to people because I'm not a brainiac. I'm just a guy who said, "Okay, we have to start in the dungeon." And we have to stay here for the rest of our lives.

For you to be successful, the dungeon is a place that must be clean. And it's the scariest place to be. That's why they misunderstand me because I speak from the dungeon. That's why I'm successful because I go there every damn day. And that's the truth, what he says. It is the exact truth. Those cabinets are fucking dusty, dirty and scary. Broken glass, fucking darkness, spiders, cobwebs. But above all, your biggest fears, the biggest things that put you in the fucking place you are in today, are there. That's why we all like to keep them closed. You like to lock them up.

Act like they never happened. That's why you never grow up. You never get better. You never have real conversations like the ones we're having now. Never. Never. Oh no. No no no no no. No no no no. Let's not go there. I've talked to so many people who tell me that. Let's talk about this. Because they will tell me, but they can only say it once. And they will say it in passing. With it they will not sink deep into the undergrowth. You can't just clean it. Son of a bitch, you gotta spit glitter on that son of a bitch.

You have to relive it, every fucking detail. You can't just say, oh yeah, yeah, my dad hit me. And it is what it is. It's not what it is, son of a bitch. He is killing you. He's taken over your entire fucking life. But that's the conversation. Yes, my dad hit me... but I'm fine now. I'm fine. OK. Alright. No, you are not. You're not fine. You're not fine. This is a real talk. People don't have that. So your boy is right. 100% correct. Scary as shit. It's very scary. But he makes you who you are supposed to be.

And that is the proof. We forgot. We think we're supposed to breathe air and have kids and pay bills and stuff. But what is this life about? That makes no sense. They are testing us, my friend. Exams come when you haven't studied. Trials come when you think you are in a great place. That's the test. The test is every day of your life. And most of us fail because we don't know why we're here, because we don't go inside to say, oh. You gave me a lot of shit to fix, man. And this test sucks. But then you start.

ANDREW HUBERMAN: David Goggins. I don't think he can add anything more. I know I can't. Thank you for sharing what you shared today. I mean, as much as your process or anyone else's process can't be fully understood from the outside, you gave us a real window into this, this process that you... like you said, God put in you. I also believe in God. People can believe what they want. But somehow, God put these challenges in your life from the beginning. And then there was a point where you went internal. And like you said, you developed a skill.

But it is a perishable skill. And clearly you live in the process of opening those closets, reopening them, trying to spit shine into those closets, understanding that they are never, ever really finished, but that you can gain ground on them, that you can gain day after day. Day after. And you really shared a lot of concrete things that I know people will be able to apply if they want to. And I agree with you. I think most people will say, wow! That was a lot. It's heavy. I think I want to binge on Netflix and Chex Mix instead.

But there's also the reality that there are men and women, boys and girls who hear that and say, okay, and start opening the closets. And I know for myself: I'm so grateful that you're willing to lay it all out there. You are so brutally honest, so brutally authentic. That word authenticity is used a lot. And I can tell you that for me and everyone else, that's really what resonates. So whether you want it or not, whether or not the purpose behind it is, you are lighting the way. So thanks. DAVID GOGGINS: Respect Thank you. Thanks for inviting me.

ANDREW HUBERMAN: Thank you for joining me for today's discussion with David Goggins. For more information about David and to find links to his two fantastic books, "Ca n't Hurt Me" and "Never Finished", see the captions in the show notes. If you are learning and/or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's a great no-cost way to support us. Also, subscribe to the podcast on both Spotify and Apple. And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review. Also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode.

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