CATCHING MIKE POSTLE (ft. Veronica Brill)

good poker player, you can use some terms that I would use and I like to explain the things that are the core elements, but you know, maybe it's certainly possible, you can be very good but be a really shitty coach. and you wouldn't be able to explain your logic properly, but there would be some logic, at least you could talk about how it went by hand. There was none of that. I mean, I've talked to people. I'm probably not the most articulate person when I talk about how I went through a hand or the decisions I make, but at least I have something.

I thought about it carefully and it was my own decision, it wasn't that I just looked at the cards and did what I had to do to win. I guess it's complicated if you know the cards. You have to give an explanation, but you can't say you knew what they had at any point, except that he did it right, but if you were to try and say no, then he has to like it, not just remember what he had, but rather what they had. but then he remembers that he didn't know what they had, he could create a new thought process and if he ever slips up and says they have ace queen, he's guilty, so it's much easier to say you don't understand. my zero

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iance like that was his first tweet after that, when the accusations came out it was like, I mean, you know, again paraphrasing here, but he hit like you guys just don't realize how amazing I am, that was really more or less what he said, I think. he came back and deleted it, I think after, um, I wish that in your video where you broke down the PLO hand you had played the role of him entering the booth because the only thing you could do was just get two cards to read and then he walked in the booth and I said what was up with not being able to see the four cards and it's like how did you know that?

But wait, the thing is, I think the amount of time I had spent in the hands had been enough for where I could have seen the broadcasts, that's why I didn't include it because even though people love to be like jugs , who likes clicks and pitchforks and goes after people like me, actually does care about people who aren't like you. I know how to publish something. I don't want to post anything else that is false or that could hurt people unfairly. You know, I want to make sure that what I post has at least some level of research behind it, so Don't hurt people unnecessarily and I know there were some people who thought that's total, they think I'm just going after whoever, but I really does that matter, so when I saw that, I checked that or asked what's up with the timestamps on that. and I think enough time had passed on the broadcast that, in theory, he could have seen it on his phone now yeah, he probably didn't, he probably almost accidentally caught him with his pants down there, but you know, if it's possible that did it.

I don't want to include it properly and just tell you that in the room they play the live stream with a delay, although they accidentally played it without delay a few times. I was there one night and they stopped it pretty quickly, so it was just live. So Slide's hands were nice, yeah, it was cool. That actually happened to me once or I don't think so, sorry, it didn't happen to me, but I forget if it happened in the ER. I was looking at a table where it happened, which is weird, you think I would remember the difference, but it was at Ozzie million at a 100,000 final table and I think I was looking at a table, it was a 100,000 final table and like they scored first. hand with how to live life Volker sick it happens that happens like I've heard about it I'm not saying it's common but it wasn't intentional in the room but I'll tell you that Justin JFK had I don't know if you saw it my video about the structure of the room so Justin would sit in this tournament director's box that was like 10 or 12 feet away from the table where they were live streaming rocks and he would watch almost the entire show from there and I would get up from time to time.

He had a microphone on his jacket and was speaking into him. I assumed he was talking to the tech, but I know my friend Jake Jake was the CEO who did the show with me and he said he saw it on the live stream. I live at that desk and I know the GM also had access to the live stream, so I don't think the GM really had anything. I don't think he had anything to do with any of this. I think it was like bragging, yeah, I'm in my office, I have the live stream, so it's a really shitty brag for people, guys, he also had a promotional wall that he occasionally moved, but it ended by last year, between the lives, the live streaming table, and the tournament directors' desks he was at, so it was like a barrier so no one could see what he was doing.

I'm almost 100% convinced he's onto something. I don't have a percentage of evidence for Haunter to do with this, but putting the whole story together it seemed likely, especially with him sitting behind that desk watching the entire time. I think the progression of how the cheating happened. I think there was progression, so I think when people look for absolutes in this they're not going to find them. I think things change. I think people were complaining to Justin and that's why he changed things. I think he was initially watching the broadcast and texting her. And that's why he was always on his phone or maybe the guys in fact decided to give him that blue screen so he could see the cards after that and then people were complaining and I think he put a headset on his grafting habit bone. thing I've never heard of that before, never, yes I've heard them, they're really strange because they don't go into your ears, but the sound goes through your ear bone, have you ever heard anyone talk about it while you were in Stone's house, it's not right, no, none of the conversations were about him having equipment and I can tell you that I don't know a single person, including myself, who thought Justin was involved.

I just started to think Justin was involved. involved like four or five days after I posted my initial tweets and I was flabbergasted. He didn't seem like that kind of person to me, but now, putting it all together it makes sense, yeah, well, you know, it's hard. I think I think it's hard for people, when you meet someone, you know, we always have this thing about giving everyone the benefit, the doubt from the beginning and just like the way we live our lives, like your parents teach you when you're young, they don't judge a book by its cover or as you know, always as you know, treat people with respect until, otherwise, at least that's how I've always seen things and like that, when you meet someone and you think that You know them pretty well and then you know something shady happens instinctively, I think we try to protect them because we know them or they are our friends or maybe there was a time when they didn't do something shady or maybe there are other good things that they did do and it's the It's human nature for us to want to protect them, but many times, as you know, they can be guilty, even though it seems like they wouldn't be or as you know, I'm saying it's difficult, it's difficult to eliminate personal prejudices from you when you see your friends. like your personal bias, well, personal bias is the reason you're friends with them to begin with, well, this is a little different because it's a workplace, so, you know what I'm saying, eliminate that bias It's hard and I think a lot of people liked it when I started asking people, a

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, when this first came out, there were people that I don't refer to people's names, but there are people that said no. , I don't think you would. that and then as you know, they said yes, that was the answer because as more evidence was presented, but most of them didn't think it was correct, so you know, I think it's difficult to have a fair evaluation. of people's character when you are so close to them.

I think he was the driving force behind all of this. I think he is very organized and intelligent in many ways. I don't think he's smart when it comes to poker mainly because I think he thought and I tweeted it today. I think the downside was that I thought wins equal a good game and I used to when I talked to him, it's like the a

postle

also lost a lot and I thought losses. is equivalent to not cheating when in reality that is being so results oriented, you know, the process in which I was losing was not that I was playing bad and good, I mean, if I was watching the card do nothing, I was playing badly, it was that He was being called out in all these six places by Bottom Care or something where Ace High was defeating him, yes, the examples and him being innocent.

He thought it was funny, like there was something I said, it was like a $40 withdrawal. I'm like $300,000 into the program, it's like here's the evidence. I lost 40 bucks on this miracle and then the rest of them were like him, running a sick Bluff on a pretty shitty hand, someone just said I'm not going to put up with this and put their foot down and called like there were a bunch of those , the pocket jacks hand was amazing, well, there were the hands where he came and lost, he was the one who made extremely good bluffs that missed, yes, and there are good examples after those tweets.

It was like he was worse at poker than I ever thought I ever imagined he used to be the Player of the Year in 2015, what happened? He just played at that time and never studied again and now he thinks this is such a hand? It's a hand worth redeeming he's going to redeem it touchdown okay, so you presented something, you know, people who didn't take you very seriously, was it there? Maybe you talked to some of the other people at Stones who weren't in charge. this because of your suspicions about what happened on that front, yeah, so there was a group of us there, a lot of my friends are professionals in Sacramento, so a lot of us, you know, there was talk that he was cheating, so It didn't happen. it was a progression so Mike was playing he was playing like everyone else from three to five no success in five ten from my friend who played with him um and then he started playing on the live stream and once he The cheating happened, it started slowly.

He stopped playing off-stream to the point where he was only playing on-stream, but I think he played like 12 hours a week and was making fifteen ten thousand a session and the guys would invite him over to check out some of Whalley's more games. the really good games that you want to be invited to and he wouldn't go, every once in a while he would play one, three and something important because Jake plays with him. Jake has played with him 1/3 off stream recently before the accusations came out, he said he was knitting sweaters, he was sitting there and his flesh was like under 10% so it was just a combination of everything he he wasn't, he wasn't, you know, calling a three-bet and me getting a small blind with like a 5/8 Yeah, you know, actually someone sent me a hand whose name would be kept private, as well as a hand that they played off the broadcast with the pass mic, when possible, he made a big drop and it was a bad free flop and my sources are not going to say his name and you're like oh I'll say his name, okay we'll shoot one day.

Tuchman, thanks for Hanukkah, tuk-tuk told me he could share it if he wanted, but he just didn't want to steal his. Thunder if I did it in case you wanted to share it or if or maybe I wasn't sure if it was funny, that was great, okay, good times here in the group, yeah, that was great, no, I think I think that's it, I think everything is fine, but yes. He made a big fool of himself with Queens preflop and the guy had jacks, you know, I just posted, he sent me the video, it's like it's one of the worst bad things you've ever been used to, it's not even bad, so anyway the point is he made a big folder which was wrong right we didn't see that at all we seemed to correctly dub Kings on the stream but then incorrectly 14 queens live and yeah he didn't even play many of those streams he played on mainly like I play mainly sessions. stream and this is something that a lot of other players also told me, like if you know Paul, so he didn't play much and a lot of times if there was a 1/3 on the stream they expected him to play. that about 510 or 10 20 or whatever is right 510 and the stones are juicy it's not like you're sitting with a bunch of rags that you know we'll all play with you it's a really juicy game and someone with your competition should be you're doing very well in those games, right, if you're a literal God, you should be able to beat the 510 stones, that's very true, I actually like Scott Van Pelt, you see, the segment for the Center to each his own, yeah.

That's what I thought, this is surreal man, I can't believe this is happening right now, you guys scream it out there, I think Veronica 2.0 is going to come on, but yeah, I love what it closed there like I thought it hit The nail. in your head like you are, if you're crushing all these games and you're just winning every time you play, why are you still playing one three at Stones casino? Why doesn't anyone win? sense, so I think that aspect is also very interesting, if he wanted, they would make a game for himKind words, no, but I absolutely believe we need it.

I have had this opinion for a long time and many people disagreed with me. I think we should talk more openly about reporting cheaters and reporting when people steal from you. I've done that all my life. I've been called all kinds of names for doing it, like when I got a Brad Booth stole some money for me. I showed up in that case. I had a guy who hacked my computer and used it to steal my money. I showed up in that case. I showed up in that case. A group of my personal people have robbed me.

I reached out to try to protect other people so they would know later. Know. I think about Brad's booth. What happened to me was that I only remember him at Phil Ivey Bluff. You know, you've actually seen that hand. You take three hundred thousand dollars that you put on the table and you say, damn, what a boss, like bluff and Phil Ivey with three hundred thousand dollars and bricks like Wow and then you know I sent my hand like a year or two before, this was when I was It's like 21 years old or something and wants some money online.

He says: Can I get about fifteen thousand dollars? I think I thought to myself, man, how can that happen, like you know this guy, how was I supposed to know, and then I posted online and the first one was like, oh, everyone knew who Brad was, everyone They knew Brad was broke and was going to sit around. everyone would have done it already. I say, well, at least one guy didn't know. I can say that for sure, but if people had actually reached out and said, "Hey, there's something fishy going on with this guy." People have to be careful, you know?

Don't you like how many people in poker scam? Only one person is short. They keep trying to run it with a bunch of different guys. They go on and on. How much can I get? So I think as a community, if we want to protect people, we should be more vocal about our concerns, like knowing when something bad happens, saying that it happened, and even though I know that it causes harm to people. that are hurting others, that is simply necessary, it is necessary to help protect our ecosystem and protect our game properly and I think historically as players we have been self-policing, we are very good at making sure we maintain the integrity of Our cheaters in the game do not They get very far in poker, they have to move to a different city.

Mike's consoles won't be able to do it because now we have two plus two and YouTube and he won't be able to set foot in any poker room. I don't think you're saying that's going to turn out well. I don't know, you could go play online and fail like you do. Yes, he mentioned that many times too. Online crusher. Yeah, well, anyway, when you showed up, that's what Gurley got. They got going because I think it was about two weeks ago or it was September 28th, there was something like that, yeah, the 28th, yeah, okay, so it's been about two weeks since things really picked up steam and only one has passed. discovery after discovery after discovery after discovery and yesterday I was like, yeah, can you imagine how much it sucks to be Mike going through this as more information comes out, like you know it's step by step, like oh, the hat? oh, they know about the stuffing of the hat, they know about this, they know when I know about the victory.

I'm curious if he'll ever reach a breaking point and maybe admit something and just say I can't take it. this or will just hold on to this. I'm the best player in world strategy and I'm also curious what the breaking points of other people who were involved will be, if they will eventually say okay, I don't. I don't want to go to jail, I think it will be closer if they are arrested. I'm not sure if anything will happen with this, but if someone gets arrested, I have a feeling the rest of the people involved will say it's okay.

I just don't want to go to jail, let me tell you everything right. It surprises me. I think once I think there's jail time, I think people will break down as to whether it's possible. I think I'm leaning towards no. I think when someone doesn't do it. It doesn't break at first, I think they tend to stick with the obvious lie of a story for as long as possible. Well, what else do you have? I mean, even if it's proven that you could say, "Oh, we live in fake news." In an era of fake news and all that, you can just say fake news or something and then you know that apparently it didn't happen.

I don't know, but the point is that I just don't see it. I don't see it just being Actually, guys, I did it that's how I don't see that happening, but it would be what I think we all want is we all want to know that we all want closure in some sense. I think that's maybe part of what makes these stories so sensational is that you want to get closer, you want to know who was involved, what they actually do, you know, I'm saying it's a human being, it's a human curiosity to the closure you want, but No, I don't think we'll get that from Mike, it's possible, right, we won't get it from my castle, but we'll probably get it from other people involved.

I think someone will break, but for me, I guess. I think everything should be data-driven, all of our decision-making should be data-driven, and I feel like we have that closure. You know, we have data that shows he's cheating and it seems strange to me to think we have to provide some. smoking gun when it's obvious, especially the videos, I mean, the videos are everything you just did and in broad daylight, essentially, it's crazy to me, well, the reason smoking gun exists is because the Most people are sorry, guys, most people are pretty stupid, not your viewers. no, you know other guys, other people are watching, not you guys, you know, you know, I'm saying most people are stupid and that's why I see them comment on my youtube channel every day and they say stuff like you're just a jealous Hater because this guy was a shredder Where's the proof?

I don't see any proof. I see these comments every day. I see them every hour or two. They are published on my channel. I see there is a constant stream of them etc. The problem is when you deal with people who are not very intelligent, like you present this to intelligent people and you have well-reasoned arguments, well, at least from the side that he is guilty, I don't know what. Reasoned arguments mean the other side, but the best, the best reasoned arguments that both sides could make. I think a bunch of smart people who understand the facts would agree that he's guilty and so are you, but that's not, but that's not necessarily who's going to decide what's right.

Do you think Mike Matusow thinks he's guilty or do you think he's just doing something like that? Do you think he's just doing this for publicity? That's a great question. I think I think Mike believes. I don't think Mike thinks he's guilty. I think Mike sees this as yes. another like the classic liberal fake news media like III. I'm not, I don't put words in Mike's mouth, but he strikes me as someone who thinks that and from his tone and a lot of the podcast, the way he asked that lady for the lines. you ask the way you know how he says what to call him like them and how I like that they're framing you or making you out to III I don't feel like he thinks he's guilty, that would be a great question.

Honestly, someone should tweet at Mike Matusow. Do you think Mike was possibly guilty or not? He just watches what he says. I also find what he has to say interesting. I would say not. What do you think? I think it's I've been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt just from my perspective listening to the podcast. I think he is doing this for publicity. I think he thinks he's guilty, but he's just giving her a soft interview and letting her come on his show. Why would he? do a two part trash interview that interview uh I thought was terrible and in some ways mirrored the first text he sent me after sitting on my tweets.

I don't know if you saw that I posted it on twoplustwo, it was like a four page rant about how amazing it is and there was nothing in there like it was innocent like how could you do this or I don't know you think I'm as good as this it's crazy that You think I'm fine, but I don't know. I think Mike Fossil is condescending or sorry. I think Mike Matusow is condescending to Mike Ross. You know like us when you bring up the issue of not saying he's innocent. I talked to Mike a little bit, but I try to never show private conversations and less like a little bit goes down and people say they're coming after me or they say things are completely out of line, so I didn't share my skills that I had with Mike, but you.

I know he didn't say that in his long rant to me, he didn't say I didn't do it like that, he's like oh I'll find you proof that I'm not cheating and it was like here, like here's a hand. where I didn't cheat is like brother that's not how the burden of proof works it's not up to you it's not like finding me a hand where you didn't cheat that's not how he explains things to him and I think like you know, even when Massa cheated on him some of the toughest questions, I say toughest questions with, I guess, quotes here, toughest questions, Mike laughed a lot and then he would just go off topic and then Mike then Massa would change the subject so it was like he never answered. the questions that I think people really want to know, like what's up with the stuffing in the hat, give me a plausible one, just give me, give me something, give me. something I can believe besides you have this bone conductor in your hat, give me one thing that could be.

Do you think there could be a chance for him to redeem himself and himself if he spoke through the hands if he really gave to us? what he was thinking and his strategy, yes, I think that's what he expected. I was hoping he would link us to that hit play like this play. I did this. I feel like it would almost be better to do that than to talk. about how great it is and everyone can attest to me. Great players don't need people to vote for them. Great players, do you know data that shows how good players have an advantage in the best opportunities from time to time and also raise a lot preflop and also?

Don't call the three best carbons with five off suits and all, I mean, but they don't lead and have a bad streak either, the great players don't do a lot of bad things, it's true, it's certainly quite damning. You know it was. Frankly, I look forward to hearing some of this stuff explained, not because I was going to believe what he had to say, but also as a good story, you know? Who doesn't like a good story? Okay, pasta, what's up? with the hat oh you know, I have this is like a you know, well, we all know that aliens exist.

You know, I was expecting a good story or something, but it was like a laugh and it would have become a legend like no other. I once put a hole in a cow to see what was in another, yeah, yeah, he's like Paul Bunyan, my boss is like Paul's mix from poker, you know, yeah, I don't know, I thought Mike's interview Matusow was just detrimental to him. I think I just stopped he should have stopped talking just not online I really can't I mean okay how can it be harmful? You mean possible, not for Massa, right?

I feel sorry for the apostle first. Sorry for too many Mikes, yeah. Mike and I realized that the same thing you mean the harmful apostle big apostle because it just magnifies this type of narcissist who or maybe he's not maybe he's just okay, I need to continue like he's the best player in the world we don't He gave no explanation, he didn't pass us through any hand, he doesn't tell us about his health problems and how great Veronica is. There are millions of people in the world who think she is guilty and like me. I don't know, maybe 10 neutrals, Pete, no. , there's probably more than that and yet there are a lot of people who don't know how they can go to the Mike Mass House podcast, which isn't like it's a very famous podcast, it's also not basically people from the poker world.

The people who watch that podcast mainly or mostly were people who already knew the story and wanted to hear what Mike had to say because they wanted a house and to explain things and he didn't, but how can it be bad for him? that's not bad, people already think he's guilty, right, but he just does it, it just adds like another pile of dirt to his grave I guess, but it wasn't, how about this? It didn't make it better, maybe I'm better off mixing those two things together so I don't have an explanation for why things happened and just laugh a lot, well, Mass House High or whatever, no, that definitely doesn't make things better, but It was a strange move, oh no, I thought, I thought we'd see.

I actually thought we were going to see one of two things. I thought we were going to see radio silence just doesn't respond to anything, which you know, I think it would make more sense if the whole world is against you, even if they're right, radio silence. radio Seems like a good move to hang up the phone and walk away for a few weeks to see if you're still alive afterwards or we'd just blatantly look innocent and just talk to whoever answers like Gund and I was really hoping for the first thing, but he opted for the hybrid interpretation of a bitstudying and they're graphing the results and they're, you know, up to their necks in chatting with friends and everything that a professional poker player would.

Do you think there's a chance that some of the other commentators are involved in this because some of their reactions Were they really strange to me? I'm not saying that makes them guilty, it definitely doesn't, but it does. I mean, I think we should take a look at some of these guys because some of the answers were just that they were so weird with the officers' hand, the high five for the officers' hands, specifically the bald guy, always his name. as a child like the ship the eye to the side as a teacher look that's yes, I called the teacher look I'm sorry that's his Twitch name but he that's Chris his name is Chris he I don't know look at that look it wasVery weird maybe He didn't even live in Sacramento, maybe he moved there, but when he used to play in the game and then slowly became a commentator, um, that would be weird, but I don't know, a lot of weird things have happened.

In the last two weeks, I think there's an equally good chance that they just didn't know about poker and that Justin was telling them that they should promote the game, okay, okay, the second argument you might be able to believe. I just don't buy the first argument, God I'd hate to think he's involved, oh I'm not saying he's absolutely innocent, like there's no evidence here other than me, I just feel suspicious so let's leave it at that. be known, but I keep hearing this from Sony like, oh, they don't know about poker select and I feel like maybe even people that you don't know about poker told you or like everyone has told you that they don't know.

Believe me, but there is a big difference between, okay, the optimal spin check boost frequency should include 17% of your range, you will use two sizes, 2.5 X and a full size, the total size will be larger. polarized between certain hands the smallest size has to contain what you like that type of analysis that nobody asks for we are talking about I put all my money with five for offsuit or not and you say ah we're just we're not qualified we just don't know you know things like that, I mean, come on, Veronica, so if you see someone do that, you're qualified to say that this isn't a very good play and that you shouldn't do it at home, right?

So something like compliance is a thing and I think we've seen times in history where people complied with horrible events and behavior, you know, I don't want to like compare this to World War II or something like that. but I am saying that psychological compliance can happen and as a group people tend to adhere to the thought process and behavior of the group. I really think it was possible that a lot of this was being sold to them as well and I think there were a lot of variables involved in this, like this was being sold to them.

Justin said, "You know, Mike, the boss is the best. Mike was obviously the best because he was winning and on top of that, don't say bad things, well, come on." put these memes on, this is so funny, we want these big hats and it's hard for me to think what benefit they would have if they covered it up and it just seems strange, it seems like there would be too. a lot of people involved too, but why every time Mike did something sketchy, the response was always about how great the piece was, yeah, weird, it was weird, you were the only person I saw, why is he doing what he did? you said?

It was like he could see your expression. Some of these hands were like what should have been happening more. That's why I've been in trouble all my life. I'm just how the hell. I don't know why this X is found. Does anyone put a king on a straddle? Someone bets three on a guy because five off suit. I'm going to keep finding his hand until death, he calls five offsuit correctly correctly and then the comment response is well, both of them could have a like. Come on, please form a team to complete this moment, but at the very least, how come there weren't more people saying what's going on now?

This is really bad, so I've never seen this, you know? I'm saying yes, so kids can pop grenades on Twitter. I hear he's super embarrassed by his comment. I think I was just giving everyone a show to be honest. It's the broken microphone. Are we good, sorry? I see you. Listen to me, I can hear you very well. I'm asking these people in the chat saying into the microphone, maybe I yelled too loud, I'm sorry, I have an idea, guys, carry on. I guess I think I yelled too loud in the chat and broke some. fact, yeah, I just think people are a little embarrassed by the comment.

I think maybe they mean, God knows. Justin Apostle knows I never listen to anyone, so Justin could have told me all along that he had to be nice, but. He still wasn't half the time. I did my best, but I think they just complied. I think they delivered. Maybe the only people I hate say this. I think maybe they met him but maybe they didn't get any monetary gain from it. They are his close friends and he would say that he is the only person he would suspect of his Navy train, but no, I still don't think he is involved.

There is a second Justin. Right, it's the JFK train. It's the second Justin. I looked at him, some of his comments were also very vague to me and I know, I know, I know some of this is like we were looking back and thinking, you know, it was almost like when he was talking to me. like he's like shut up woman, you know, he'd be like oh yeah, he's just great, he's just amazing. I say, thank you, yeah, my boss is just amazing. God, yes, it just happened. I don't think I've seen anything like that. you call him train, train, that's his nickname, okay, so part of it, part of the train commentary room, actually okay, some of the moments where he was talking were also like the passion he had for the passing plays with a microphone, for which he had a real passion. explaining that to them was strange for me too.

Don't know. Don't know. I wish I could say it was strange for me too, but I don't know. I'm like you. You're killing me right now my head is spinning. I've never actually considered the comment, but he, um, was very quiet after all of this came to light. I thought he would be just as I thought he would dislike all of this. I know that such a close friend did this and potentially his other best friend, JFK, so I don't know that he will kill me after this. In my mind, I think, well, apostles, very clearly guilty.

I have a hard time imagining a world where JFK wasn't involved based on everyone else I've seen, but I don't feel strong enough to say it with the same degree of certainty, but there are simply too many strange coincidences like the timeline in which He's in Las Vegas. and like her relationship with Mike and the fact that she didn't have access to this, I feel like that's very likely and then I think it's also possible that there are other people at play, but it's less likely that you know III I think about the original point that I said the more people you have the more chance there is of a leak and it only takes one leak so I think the most likely scenario is that it was just possible and JFK and the Count just told them look you can't mock of these guys, God riddles, how to deal with it, or not be a commentator, and then they just went in knowing that the money was going to happen and that was just the reality. which we all had to live in because you know I like the way you talk about compliance and like people accepted it, not because you know they were bad people or knew I was cheating or anything, they just like it, this is my this is.

In life I wake up on Tuesday and talk to people about how great Mike is, that's just Tuesday, as you know, yeah. I think that's the case for most of them and you know it's one of those things where it's a sensory thing. adaptation, we're like, you know, it's very easy to get used to something, right, leaky, tricks the lights and it's very dark, eventually you can see some of what I think if you're around people saying how great Mike Fossil is for 18 months or 15 months or however long all the shenanigans lasted for 12 months if that's reality you wake up everyone tells you how amazing my possible is not today your job is to talk about how amazing my possible is that you could even get into It becomes creative not to think that you are covering up my possible but simply this is what you have to do and you are aware, especially when you take into account that many people were not great poker players or were not. professional poker players, I think that makes it even more possible and then you wake up and find out you're in North Korea and Mike Pasal is gone.

I'm just saying brainwashing you know what I mean, yeah, but okay, we'll do it. Do you have any last thoughts here, we've already made some progress and I want to say thank you for everything you've updated, do you have any similar final comments and where you think maybe this is going. any lessons you've learned, anything you want people to know, anything like that, um, I want to thank everyone for raising awareness about this. I want to thank all the online professionals, you, Joey and Berkey, for knowing how to dive into this, uh, I hope that I know this sounds crazy, but I really hope that maybe stones like could continue in a different way, managed better , can be managed by a third party and be open with their highest security measures and standards for them.

It's a nice room. I'm really sad about all this. Sometimes I make jokes, but it really hurts me that the community has been robbed and cheated and we haven't, and we didn't have a friend that we thought we had. I've been lied to, so that's it. I'm just curious what the civil trial will be like and because then we will probably be both a civil trial and a criminal trial, yes, the criminal trial will probably take longer, we can't bring it. I mean, Mack can't take a criminal trial to court that has to be handled by the prosecutor of the county he lives in, I guess, but the civil one will definitely probably be quicker and doesn't need smoking gun.

I just need enough evidence that we have, so I have a feeling that the stones are going to live and regret trusting Justin so much, so I think they've already lived that life well, so I mean, although maybe Maybe they are you don't know, we don't know what's going to happen in court, I mean, in the court of public opinion, I can't imagine this has been good for the stones, I mean, apparently, everything apparently their games are still hot , but you are not allowed. to say Mike Fossil in the room apparently I think he now he's 86 years old so good move yeah it took a while.

I was really surprised when I posted on Saturday and then on Monday they went live with no comments. I saw that my brother advises, yes, they. They're digging their heels in the ground with this once, it's unbelievable, which is also why I thought the YouTube jail thing was recent because, like, they're doing something that they're guilty of, but they're supposedly guilty, but you know. they're like they're making light of it, this is all just a bunch of stuff like no, no, it's not real, like let's troll these guys because they're so dumb that they believe that, like it's obviously not real.

It's like, they put up puzzles, oh I know, they put balls on his brother in the street, oh yeah, Justin was still there. I saw him in the background, you know, he's smiling in front of the table and a couple of cute people who were on Twitter. those who accused me of lying and were quite angry with me, we are in the game. I thought this was amazing. One last thing here before we go. I want to ask you what it was like when you initially showed up. Did a lot of people criticize you a lot for that?

Were there a lot of people who got mad at you and who you know said some things to you that maybe they shouldn't have said? And people apologize for doing that right to you. So I would say that his closest friends did not give me death threats, but it was very bad, they have done it since almost everyone, yes, everyone above and today was the last apology, but I have received the most. I have received apologies from everyone. them, it frustrates me a little bit that a lot of people have spoken publicly against me and then privately apologized to me but haven't said anything publicly and I'm like, well, I guess this is your only, I mean, this is your ability to this situation so I'm trying not to I'm trying to be nice but it's frustrating for me when it's your - sorry, okay, yeah, it's easier to be easier to be wrong in private, right, right and then just shut down publicly is a crazy to me um yeah, but I think most people have turned around.

Still, I heard that some dealers are still angry at me about the stones because they feel they could be losing their jobs if the stones have to be closed. down because of the lawsuit, but I mean, it's not me, I didn't do it, I didn't do anything if they, if they hadn't cheated, my deal wouldn't have meant anything, they would have just helped me, you know, honestly, I like it when we talked ofEarlier in this podcast I regret my words because I kind of said it was you, but it wasn't you, people were doing something unethical that was stealing right there, the reason this happened, don't blame them for being the person that comes.

I hope to stop it, that's important. I think it's important to separate them and I like how you worded it. Thank you. Anyway, I want to say thank you Veronica for joining us today. It was great to learn a little about what's behind it. scenes of what was happening at Stones and I appreciate his time answering all the questions and being so forthcoming with everything this was amazing. Thank you, thank you for inviting me. It was great to meet you. It was a pleasure to meet you too. And for you it was great. who tuned in today thank you all for joining and seeing all the microphone research possible.

It will be the end of our podcast series, but maybe we'll do a few more in the future, I'm not too sure either way. I'll see you guys. come back soon peace wait wait i know i have to change this bad in the last two days wait stop