“You don't have to be THAT GOOD to be a Premier League player anymore” ⚽ Michael Owen | Up Front

obviously it was a mistake what he did not padded tell me what you mean by resentment you don't resent the referee you don't resent Simeone where is your resentment well he was wrong I was an Everton boy or fan but I'm going to be hated now, but I

have

no choice, literally within a day, Nikki B called me and said, uh, just so you know the coach will call you. I ask him who the coach is. Sir Alex is watching the game. of the day that night and I start hearing that we want our money back or what a waste of money or something like that and to me, you know what this is from the beginning, with me Simon Jordan, I think there are a lot of empty opinions, uninformed and not questioned.

I want to get to the bottom of it and cut through the nonsense, so with this podcast with William Hill I'm going to get people with strong opinions who think they can hold them up to proper scrutiny; there is a

good

possibility. I might learn something along the way, and more importantly, could you join me for today's Epe episode? A top scorer for some of the most iconic football clubs in the world. He memorably burst onto the World Cup stage in 1998 when he was a teenager against his chosen Argentinians. He achieved national honors among the Premier League's biggest rivalry, a treble with Liverpool and a Premier League title at Manchester United.

He was Galactic for a time and was only one of the four Englishmen who won the battle at Door Marel. Owen, welcome to the

front

when you arrive. These programs and talking to you, superstars and people who achieve great things in sports, one of the things I try to address is what created you, so that it is framed in an overriding question of what is your why and what? . does Michael Owen

have

had the career that he had what prepared you from where you started as a child what was your personality what made you as successful as you were at times in your career well I think the predominant view and feeling that I have As for why I reached the top, let's say it was my mentality.

I think being part of a big family and having two older brothers certainly helped a lot of people give in when their brothers beat them up in football or in a fight or whatever. It could be and some people just go to bed thinking I'll have you tomorrow. My father was a professional footballer who played in the lower

league

s for most of his life. And he was a forward. Yes, and you know my father. He was my real hero, everyone says that, but he really was, you know, when I used to go to a field and see him standing behind the goal, that was my, you know, my reference point.

Every time he did something wrong, he would surreptitiously cast a sly little glance. out of the corner of my eye petrified that he was going to be shaking his head he never yelled at me once never ever yelled never physically never yelled at me but the pain of bothering him was a real guiding light for me and if he did anything

good

in my life if he scored a goal if he dribbled someone if he did what he did I would turn around, you know, completely to see the little gesture of appreciation so I think he had something, he had something about me um and I think it's really important to have one or two people in your life that you are desperate to impress, we all want to impress certain people sometimes if I wasn't in my dad's good books for whatever reason and he tells me don't be silly about it.

It was never the case, but I felt it. The worst thing he could do to me is not talk to me until the next game, when he redeems me, let's say. And he didn't mean to. A lot of the things I was very aware of, let's say, what was this mentality? I mean, you touched on it briefly, you said I developed a mentality and then you went, you said we went right into your relationship with your father, but what? It was the mentality you had oh I wasn't going to be a footballer I was going to be the best footballer in the world right that was my when I used to know when I used to follow my dad everywhere I used to play golf on a Sunday and I would love to just sit at home club at the end because he'll be playing pool at that time and I and I would see people coming up to him saying, "That's your boy on the corner with his Chris bag and Coke can and my dad is so quiet that you know, he's not stubborn at all and I used to see him say oh yeah, you know he'll be, he'll be a full England international.

There's absolutely no doubt about just football, just always, yeah, I mean, he got into it a little bit. of panic in the summers, when there was no football and I used to go play golf with my friends for six weeks of the summer holidays I made sure that I still like football more uh, more than golf, I used to box myself. , I boxed for about three or four years when I was a kid, he did it just to toughen me up, um, but that seed he planted in my head constantly, no matter what we did, where we went, you know. everything was a challenge.

I would eat an apple while watching TV at night and the trash can was next to the TV, you know, twenty feet away or whatever and well, I just did it. I had the courage to do it. wonder and that it was a stain on the wallpaper and that my mom yelled at me and sent me upstairs. I wasn't cocky at all, but the next day I'd do the same thing and get hit and it would all go away. right in the middle and my dad was giving me a thumbs up and my mom was furious but she couldn't say anything because she came in um and that confidence that kind of boldness, that nod of approval that I don't want to get screwed. for my D for my mom here but God, I'm desperate for a nod, a little wink to say from my dad to say damn, you little cocky, you know, uh, and that's what I always longed for as a kid, I mean, very motivated he seems to be. a terminology that is associated with you sometimes in terms of your belief system and your confidence and what I'm talking to you about now I can see that you are very confident in yourself as we all should be at certain stages in our lives, but you your father He talked about you and talks about you how his coordination was exceptional, but it was his mentality that set him apart.

He was a forceful character. Relentless in his pursuit of getting his way. I have never met anyone with a single mind. as strong as his now that he touches the belief system and mentality, but was there ever any contemplation in your mind that there would be no results? Have you ever had a price tag on your thoughts? There is a chance he wins. Not being a professional footballer and not just a professional footballer, but the stated goal of a world professional footballer, never with football, but no, not quite, but I stand on a street and think exactly what you just said .

You know well the waters that form there. You sure get over it, you don't even look at the pin, so I have that in me. I'm probably a realist, but not when it comes to football. That was my mentality at the time. I'm going to make it, it leads me to a question. There are two questions I'm going to ask in a different order than I was originally going to ask, but you touched on the mental side of things because one of the conversations that came up, Stuart brother. specifically as a cricketer he talked about you have to have a skill base, of course you do well, but he talked about the ability to be at the top of your game is 90% mental and 10% skill, what do you think of that?

Yeah, um. I wouldn't necessarily agree with the percentages, but I do think he's a lot more mental than people give him credit for because, let's get it right, every

player

you see running around on a Saturday in the Premier League you would have done. I have no idea what really, if you went and did a physical test, who is the best and who is pretty, everyone is fit, everyone is strong, everyone is capable, so after that, once you've been given the tools. from a physical point of view, it's just mental, right, it's just mental, so there are a lot of analogies, I mean, have you gone to Liverpool in the football cities and the development prospects, was it an academy when you went in there, was it considered an academy or was it? it's just a youth development policy because acem, well, it's not funny enough, Steven Jared and I in the same year were both, you know equally, you know we're both G to make it, I guess and I was probably ready before him.

The same year as I say, but he was ready and about to break into the first team and I think Liverpool at the time were building the academy and they wanted someone to come out of it well, so I was fast-tracked. In that way, Steven Gerard had to go the other way, he literally did a week or two at the academy and then came to Melwood with the rest of us, but of course in politics, you know political things and everything else, now we can say Steven. Overall, as a Liverpool Academy graduate, he really is, he wasn't and he isn't, but he spent a couple of weeks there, well, the reason I ask is because I have this resistance to the idea.

These documentaries like Panorama and things like that when they enter the POS of youth development part of the football clubs and classify them as this dream factory that has the other brutal side and is called a sausage factory, but when you listen to this evaluation of football academies sausage factories, you were partly a product of that, you just said that there was an idea that they wanted to push on you so that you could be a poster child for the success of the ofies and ultimately Liverpool's youth development system, but do you recognize it ? that kind of terminology you think it's a fair analysis it's a bit brutal it's a bit direct football clubs don't give a damn as long as you make it it's fine but if you don't you're out no I'd like to I'd sit down on your side of the fence here I think you have an incredible opportunity, um, but in life, you know, forget about football, in life you constantly get hit, you constantly have disappointments, um, come on. do it right, I mean, people say to me, oh, you know, we have to do something and yeah, I'm all for it, I'm all for it, you know, clubs create a path if you're not good enough to find yourself. a different club, finding yourself a different career, all these things, of course, I'm in favor of that, but this notion that people think like a 17-year-old young

player

who has been in an academy since he was six, let's say suddenly he has dreams. he threw himself in

front

of them in one fell swoop in a meeting with the academy director, it's a bunch of nonsense.

I mean these kids, if they let them go, they know it's coming, yeah, and they've probably been preparing for it for a couple of years. If I'm a right back and the left winger keeps running alongside me in training every day, do you know how relieved I am actually going to be when they tell me you don't have to do this

anymore

? terms with that, it's in any walk of life, you feel like you're struggling, you know what this is not for me? I'm just not at this level, etc., and you know what happens if you're just below it, then.

Not only are you going to be thrown in the bin, you might go down a level but you still have a career, but for those people who think football clubs suddenly throw them out, that's you. Yes, some people let them go and say you know what I don't think this career is for you, you might have to look for another career, but that's not a surprise for these lands, it's not a surprise at all, they've been running through a field. for years and years and years feeling this, feeling it, but it's also the reality of life.

Michael, right? I'm in the camp without wanting to be too generalist, we need a little more resilience and we don't always do it. get what we want and while it may be disappointing, what you do is take a hit and build from it, rather than doing it because it just irritates me when I see these documentaries on TV, it's a terrible industry, they don't care . it's about it's only labeled in football because you know, with everything, everyone exactly wants to be a footballer and you know, take any other job, you know, if they tell you at some point that you're not going to be a banker, but it may be that If you know something half-similar, then it's not going to blow your mind, but if you're not going to be a footballer, everyone dreams of being a footballer, so in reality it's the dream that everyone has, the one that those people have.

Some of you know, you have a stick to beat him with, but the reality is just like any other walk in life. You are a Liverpool fan. Yes, you are a Liverpool fan. I was an everon. I was an Everton fan until I was 10 or 11, of course. when you know Everton was the best team my dad played for, so when you go to school and someone says who you support, it's oh my dad, my everon, because my dad played for them, so that was the theory but as soon as I went to Liverpool and I was there for a year or two and then I changed quickly when you walk in there and you land in this dressing room that has Paul L Jason mcer Steve McManaman Patrick Berger Robbie Fowler one of my players my players Neil Rodic What was it like for you to walk into that dressing room with all these characters and those kinds of images that resonated well at that moment?

You are so general and you know that you admire these people. I think it was a brilliant dressing room. uh to walk into a lot of fun uh a lot of laughter they took me under their wings in many ways and took care of me um I couldn't I couldn'tcriticizing sizing it in no way got you into that environment and maybe the expectation that you would have of yourself and maybe because you're going through the academy and people would have heard of this young man that's going through, that's going to potentially be something that did some of that nerve, it was just a natural progression for you, totally natural, yeah, getting on my nerves, you are.

No, no, and you know what, but yeah, you know, you can ask me about doing other things and whatever, and I'd say yeah, you know what? That was quite stressful when I did this or that for the first time, football, never, never, never. I didn't really have any setbacks, um, moving up the ranks, everything I did I did, you know, pass the test, let's say, and go to the next level, you get nervous if you can't do something, I'll get nervous if put me on a first T now and you're looking I'll be like oh Simon's never played me, he's seen me play golf before and this could go left, it could go right, it could go up, it could when you know you can do it, yeah, put it .

Me in front of eight billion people, put me in front of them. You know, if I have a soccer ball at my feet, then just no, no, I'm not worried at all. In this 9798 season, you come in, you score 23 goals. you land in the England setup, you go to England, you go to the World Cup in 98 um, was this a very exciting period for you, but it wasn't, it was a bit of a frustrating lead up as well. I mean, keep in mind that I made my debut in the English team in February of the first season.

I would say 98, yes, yes, yes, but the moment you think about the forwards, you know Sher Sheringham was immovable, I mean they had incredible, you know Euro 96 in England, but just think about the players behind Robbie Fowler who scored 30 plus one year, Andy Cole who scored 30 plus one year, you know, Les Ferdinand Stan clymore, Chris Sutton, Deon Dublin, he just won a Golden Boot, oh we had the most incredible thing. and then you have players who played at the back and who could play like Paul Meren, Paul Skoles, and in Gaza we had so many good players, so I had no idea I was going to be in the England team so soon, but once I came in the team in February and I played and everything else, so I thought I was going to go to the World Cup, but I had frustration because I was never going to split this pair and above, Sherry Sheringham was just as I say, cast. in stone, so I was going to the World Cup thinking, oh you know, and I wasn't used to not playing, I had never stopped playing and I was like a little bit, yeah, you could say oh, you go, but going is.

No, you know it to me at that point, it's just that you know, of course, I'm going to adopt a kind of attitude, but I want to play, would you relate to the observation that people might have equated? Look, I don't believe in the arrogant expression. I hate the expression arrogance. I think arrogance is not a complimentary way to be told you are because I think arrogance is based on ignorance, frankly, while confidence is based on belief. Can you understand why people might have thought that some of the things you display? Not now as an older man, but maybe at the time it would sound like arrogance.

I don't think so, no, because he was very aware. Now I look at the players and think, wow, I can totally see your head. Now you're a footballer you don't have, you know, you don't have personal skills, you don't have, you know, I just want to say, what do you mean by that? What I mean by that is that it is very easy in life, like what I did, which many people do, I would leave the house and go to work and when I leave the house I am a brother, I am a son, I am, You know, I'm friends with a lot of people in my area etc, when I go through the Mery tunnel and I'm playing for Liverpool and 50,000 people are chanting your name and everyone wants you to be photographed and that's really silly in the scheme of life. , it's great, but it's absolutely something that you take with a pinch of salt, you embrace it, you have to live the part that you know, because you go to that tone, you need, you know, I want people to sing my name, it makes me feel better , but if you think that, then when you turn around at the end of the game and go through Mery's tunnel and come back home that you are still that person if you don't think you are like I always thought that now I have two lives and this life is It's just going to be a 10-year life or a 15E life if you're lucky, the people who really struggle in life after football, as well as the people who jumped into that world and think and oh, forget about it. and you think it's the norm and then you crave everything when what it gives you that I mean is a very mature response is it something that you developed in hindsight or is it something that you had at the time because it's a very mature look no that's absolutely I would never have I was able to do what I did at 7 18 I'm going to represent my country, I know you are, yes, but I was also at home, you asked, you know, you asked my mom, you asked my dad, you asked my wife . my brothers and sisters I was a normal person.

I didn't come home and think, hey, you know, now I'm watching my no, my brother is in the room, he's older than me, he can watch the channel, he can't, wait a minute. I've just made my debut for England I've just come back from the World Cup now I can see the T, their hierarchy, you know, it's like that. I always separated and I can always separate and I think it's very dangerous if you can't separate as well. your question was: do you feel like you know you had arrogance or did you feel like people would?

Of course, I had arrogance when I went out on the field, confidence but confidence and arrogance too, you can't go. In a boxing ring, like you too, you can't cross a you know and play in a world cup or a Premier League match without having a bit of arrogance with you, especially if you don't know if you're an attacking player. I'm not a defender, that's my job every time I do it, they just kick it in Rose Headed and everyone applauds and you know, tackle like you didn't say anything else you don't really need arrogance to do that, right? but to be creative and brave and you need arrogance to do it.

Well, I would have said Supreme Confidence, but if you're happy with the terminology, well, no, I don't like the word arrogance and I hate it, but when I come back. Off the court, I'd like to think people thought you know what a good guy is, you pitched. I mean, okay, you're a secret when you go to the World Cup and there's background noise about Hodle and whether you're going to play and whatever. more that happens and of course we have this game that puts you on a different trajectory in terms of Public Awareness and recognition, but in that game there is an instant and you refer to it, then you open this box, so I'm going to have Dig Deeper a little bit on that about David Beckham um and his expulsion um and I think you said in your book that you still have some resentment towards him or towards the incident, what did you mean by that?

I mean, let's do it right. I don't think it was a red card, but that's irrelevant. I mean, what do I mean by that? Obviously it was a mistake. What he did, um, don't tell me what you mean by resentment, you have resentment towards something that happened, no. You're not resentful of the referee, are you, Simone, where's your resentment? Well, you made a mistake, right? And you know that in football reaching the highest level is already difficult enough. A lot of people have a chance at a World Cup, right? You're very lucky to have arrived or whatever, but he made a mistake, of course, he made a mistake.

Everyone would do it, they would admit it, and you could say that that contributed to us getting out of the World Cup and that's a big thing. The thing is that your resentment, yeah, it's like you have resentments to like a lot of things if you use the word resentment, obviously I use that word, but I'm talking about two of our guys. I love Paul, I hint that he is my great friend, but he missed out. a It probably bothers me that he chose that way instead of that. It wasn't David who made the decision to send a player off, of course, because you know he's going to be picked up and you write something like that and because of the Beckham scenario and all that.

It's over, they'll take it back and if you haven't written that you're resentful of Paul Wi for missing a penalty, then you have to be responsible in this conversation because it's going to be a triggering topic where you're going to suggest that I resent Beckam for being sent off and I'm just trying to understand is that resentment because you think he was irresponsible, is that resentment because you think it was selfish, foolish and childish of him to be sent off, is that resentment because it affected the team's performance to go on and win the game or you didn't lose until we had penalties that's what I'm trying to understand all those all those things yeah, I mean his mistake, whatever you know, childish mistake, irresponsible mistake, whatever you want.

I want to describe it, it was a mistake he made, so of course all those things you think. If he, if he hadn't done that, with 11 men we would have beaten Argentina. I am absolutely convinced that we were the best team we had. I played for an hour or so with 10 men and you know what would have happened. We had an incredible team, of course, I think it was great, it could have been, it could have been, you know, and you always know, England has a history. from a self-imploding group, you know, you remember Wayne Rooney stomping on someone.

I had actually gone home, I hurt my knee, so I was already out, but you know, you think a lot of the tournaments we've been out in, it's actually not necessarily for the football reason is not because we were the worst. team, it was because we did something that we almost shot ourselves in the foot, so of course we did. I go to bed regularly thinking how we didn't win something with England, the teams we had what you think, I mean obviously there's been this recent documentary that Beckham did with Netflix and there was a very strong assessment of Glenn Huddle.

I like Glenn um and I know there have been observations. I heard Ian Wright speak. about the difficulty that Glenn had with player management because the level of skill that Glenn had sometimes he couldn't get it from the players that played for him and that was a frustration that sometimes the players felt, but the observation was made, I think . It was specifically Victoria Beckham, but also yeah, pretty much Ted and Sandra, that group really threw David Beckham to the wolves, in terms of didn't protect him, didn't succeed. a team was very much this was a decision that cost us the game when you when you I don't know if you've seen it but when you hear that, do you think that's fair management on Glenn's part?

Well, I can understand it. the Beckhams family, as you just mentioned the full names, I can understand that at that moment the world went absolutely crazy and I was very, very angry at David at that moment, by the way, you are ridiculously over the top, yes, yes, so I can I understand that at that moment I mean that you know that when everyone attacks you, you must be petrified when you walk out the door of your house, so I guess at that moment you want certain people to probably come up and have your back I guess I don't remember exactly what was said in subsequent interviews and whether Glenn did that.

I certainly know that Glenn, because I've talked to him about it several times, doesn't think it was an expulsion. and thinks it was a joking decision, etc., etc., but I can understand that if I was in a time of need, everyone would put a patch on your back when you were doing well, if I was in a time of need when I did a big mistake and I want forgiveness and I want my friends to defend me Etc. um, what would you want someone in that situation, meaning the manager or the captain or whoever, to come out and support you.

I can totally understand that, yeah, and I think you know Glenn was an incredible coach. In fact, I've said it before, I think if he had stayed on as a coach and then as a coach of that golden generation, the Next Generation, I think we absolutely would have won a World Cup and it was like that listen, I'm sure Glenn watches look back and think that one or two decisions he made would change, but you know, let's do it right, it was first class and, like I say, I think we would have done it. you won a world under him, now you're accelerating and I'm going to take you to 2001, you know, you do this, you do this hat-trick, you score this hat-trick against Germany, which you know, everyone is elated.

You seem to be in the right place at the right time to get the right results, but you also know one of these Rare Rare. I'm lucky to have two of you in this series of a Balon Door winner, you know? that's pretty rude hullet um and now you're here and you're a very rare breed um do you think that achievement gets enough credits to stop it and you thought when you got it that you were the best player? in the world no no but yes yes okay no but yes then no I don't hum realistically for the purpose of this conversation no no no because I knew it not because I knew it because I didn't think it was but um Brazilian Ronaldo looked like him and I thought, you know, yeah, he, you know there were better players than me in the world yet, but it's like when I walk on the field it's like telling a boxer or anyone if I'm about to have a fight. with you you know you probably hit me in a fight, yeah, but actually, when we start fighting, I'm in this, no, you know, I don't think I'm going to lose and I know what I felt when I crossed the target. line and that was like me but realistically,blah, you know this, I'm Liverpool, they're not going to wait for me, I don't have any resentment but I don't respect resentment the other way around because my first protocol to return to the club was but by the way, because you told me that Liverpool would go to Newcastle for a year, didn't they come back to look for you again?

No, because my KNE you're injured, yes, yes, you're injured, yes, yes, every time, so it's just there. It was just never the opportunity so my first call to the portal my first call was to come back to Liverpool, yeah now after that when Liverpool say no what do you want me to do? What do you know? What are your options? and I will tell you. What were my options? They were sitting at Everton, yeah, and Manchester United, okay, and they were the three teams that got into the Premier League. I had spent my period away, I didn't want to go anywhere else, so in the Premier League all three teams, with all due respect, Hull, were in the relegation fight and the rest didn't really want to live far away again. playing in the fight for relegation.

I was still, you know, a decent player, um, and now I'm thinking I'm absolutely going to get it, yeah, no, I get it and I had talked so I was prepared to do it. I'm just saying hello to you with your own Bard because you told me you love Liverpool so much, but I'm prepared to go, everyone would. I've been to Man United, haven't I? I spoke with D. I flew to the United States. David Moy is on vacation. I flew to the United States. I played golf with David Moyes. I spent a full day with him.

He was like he was a kid or an Everton fan, but I'm. GNA is hated now, but I have no choice and I just had to do it. I can't do anything and then I landed home literally in a day. Nikki B called me and said, uh, just so you know. The boss is going to call you. I ask him who's the boss because he was obviously with Nikki, but in Newcastle I was thinking: does he mean as soon as possible? Do you mean you know any of them? Sir Alex goes. I like what he says, he wants to hire you, I'm like you're joking, blah blah, hang up the phone.

Sir Alex calls me, you know, you know that day or day or whatever and that was and then, but I'm thinking, of course thinking Liverpool fans are thinking hell, but what can I do? I call Brandon Ro. I call as if he couldn't. Know? Does it bother you, Michael, that maybe you haven't, given the fact that you were part of the Liverpool staff for seven years that there seems to be maybe I'm being unfair and you can correct me if I am I'm not trying to be that I'm not trying to be unfair mate honestly um that doesn't seem to have This partnership of mutual appreciation that other players have had at Liverpool and that maybe you should have had.

Robbie Fowler seems to have more recognition and more connection with Liverpool, yes, than you seem to have, but you were a product of youth development, yes, you were. a phenomenal player for them, they got decent value by selling you, you wanted to get back there, that anyway, we're all great and life goes on, it disappoints you, then no, I'm over it, no, I was Yeah, I mean, but It's always been like that and if I said it any other way I'd be lying when I was 20 and 19 and whatever and scoring goals left, right and center for Liverpool, of course, there I was, you know, I was a hero and aggregation.

What, but there was nothing like me and Robbie Fowler, like I told you before, Jamie and I used to go in the car to the room and he always told me the same thing, he says, you know what I know, why does he say you can fail? . Liverpool fans in general Liverpool, kind of Liverpool people Liverpool fans in general think that you made your name for England, it's like you're right in England and you're not Liverpool and let's get it right, let's get it right without generalizing. Liverpool is not the most patriotic place. in the world at all, but I told K that I won the Golden Boot in my first damn year here, like when he said I know, I know, I know, but that's how people and at 18 you came into the world C and you became a world super. with a white shirt, not red, the fact that Robbie is obviously a scouter.

I live in Chester which is half an hour away. So there was this affection for Robbie and don't get me wrong, there was a huge affection for me, but no. At the same level that you've been doing recently, which I think is a very challenging situation because it's a very officiating-focused scenario now and V, tell me about that because you're getting some criticism on the microphone. shows what you're doing, but there seems to be this propensity in this show that you ask a question, the answer comes back and then there's no interrogation of the answer now, that seems to me like that's the direction you've been told to go. but since I think you're pretty direct and I think you probably have a pretty inquisitive mind, why does that come through in the structure of this show?

You ask Howard a question, he gives you an answer, and that answer is accepted. So this show is brand new, it's a 30 minute show, the match officials scored once every four weeks, we have a 4 and a half minute ad break and we have to watch all the clips in 20, you know, five minutes throughout the USP. of this program is for you as a viewer to hear behind the scenes what is happening on v Hub, so let's say the big Lo, the last big goal was Arsenal's goal or Newcastle's goal against Aral Aral, but all the chat on the back of that, that's what the show is about, it's not about my opinion or anything else.

I wish we had an hour. I wish we had done a half hour every week or whatever, but this is a new show. that we are just trying hopefully we all wish we can order it more hopefully we can do it for longer Etc but I have 25 minutes, approximately 20 of those minutes are to give the viewer inside information to hear what is happening in the background and then the other five minutes are to tell Howard if you're happy with this, this is right, this is wrong and for him to almost be the, you know, the override, you know, coming to the conclusion in this situation in the future, we would expect the decision to be different, yes or yes, we like the processes or no, if I had more time I would love to ask my own questions and everything else, maybe you will like it, that's not what the program is about, the program is about letting Arsenal fans let Liverpool let the fans be Liverpool fans when Diaz's goal was what was the process why did he do it what are they saying behind this that's the USP of the show not Michael Owen saying Hi Howard, you know this It's garbage, let's throw this out and make it garbage, that's not no, no, I get it and I understand the challenges that you have.

The only observation I make is that I get tired of experts not having a solid vision and of people being indecisive and not having the courage to say anything more than me. I am not an expert in this situation, well no, you are a presenter, I understand that, but I sit on shows and in some perverse categorization I am perceived as a presenter, but that does not mean that I always think that it is never the Question and understand that you've shown me the framework of this program, so it makes it a little more difficult and maybe they have to change the framework of the program because, frankly, everyone has seen the decision, they haven't heard the audio.

It's not the first question you ask that I think is intriguing, it's the interrogation of the answer because when you ask Howard Webb his explanation of this, I don't think personally yes, that a tacit acceptance of what he said that, at the bottom of the lyrics, it is valuable for anyone, but the dilemma for us is that we can only do it, we did it, we decided to do four, we could do three clips and, in fact, in that short period of the week we were able to do three clips. and I might actually have some questions and question him further because the question would be inevitable, wasn't it when someone tells you that we don't have the camera angles to see the ball?

The next question is why not, when exactly do they come in? Absolutely, we can do that, but what we do is we end up making two clips and do them really well, yeah, and interrogate how and everything else, or but then we wait a minute, you know what's up with this lens? that goal or this red card or that I mean, we had a situation the other day during the Arsenal game where we didn't have time, we went over it with a producer with all the people from the Premier League and we went through the show and we didn't we had entered the redard potential of Kai ht Bruno gimz potential you can't please all the people.

I have a question and eventually we said we don't have time for that and I'm like guys, Missing, we just have to do it, even if it's like two SEC, we have to do this South Kate Southgate. I'm going to finish with him, you played with him, you know him, what is your assessment of Southgate and do you think we are going to win the Euro next summer. I like GTH Southgate. I think he certainly could have, you know, been a little more aggressive in certain situations. But I think he has built a good culture, that team spirit we have will take us far.

I think we are, you know, people like to be an England player, they like to leave, so be careful what you wish for, is what I would say to a lot of people if I wasn't and I suppose I might be their last guy. . from the tournament um, where the hell do we go from there? Who is capable? I mean, Eddie, how is he probably the one who won't quit? New, he's young, so where are we going? I think you know we have a manager I think you might know that. that that could take us to a final at the end of the day and he's only going to get better with experience so yeah I'm in the Southgate Camp person yeah I mean obviously we always seem to find that no not always. but there is always this case, often this case is not always that, like France, when they built and built and built, they got to semi-finals, they got to finals and then they won tournaments, we must be at this stage now, right?

Do you think we will win the Euro Cup? This is your last question, so you have to answer it honestly, as you have done until the end. Do you think we will win the Euro Cup? Yeah, I think I think it's France, yeah, they're the two best. teams, but I've been in tournaments and I thought you know we're the best team or the second best team in this and it's very difficult, but there's no support, I mean, it's not like it was before. That means this is my point, this is the moment, right? Yeah, yeah, Bel's gone, now his golden generator's gone, you know who's who, it's like I say, France and England, but it's hard, I mean, but we.

We've got the players, we've got the players, we've definitely got the players, no, I, you'd be disappointed if this group of players didn't win something, yeah, Mone, thank you very much for being so direct with me, thank you very much. Honest to me Sim Jordan for you future episodes can be found on YouTube Spotify or wherever you find the 18 plus podcast please G responsible.