Terrorism: Foreign and Domestic | 60 Minutes Full Episodes

tonight an unprecedented interview with an undercover FBI agent who lives and works secretly among Isis and Al-Qaeda terrorists his name is a national secret but in 2012 Al-Qaeda knew him and Tamar Elri thought he was an Arab American rich man with anger at the United States, but had actually dedicated himself to the war on

terrorism

on the morning of 9/11. I remember thinking please God, don't let this be a terrorist attack, please God, uh, and that's how naive I was, that's how naive we all were. at that time Tamar Eluri one of her many aliases immigrated from Egypt as a child and was raised in New Jersey in a traditional Islamic home we are not at war with Islam we are at war with radicals I am a Muslim I am an American and I have been serving my country for 22 years and I am appalled by what these animals are doing to my country while they desecrate My religion dedicated to Islam and America comfortable working alone in the midst of Killers was a rare find The FBI's covert counter

terrorism

group is It's called the Homeland Security Covert Operations and what the guys in the unit called it.

It's not the boys, it's me. I jokingly refer to it as the group of dirty Arabs. The group of Dirty Arabs their bosses must have loved that dark humor is part of the business. In a new book American radical writes about infiltrating terrorist groups at home and abroad. He wrote the book he told us about so that his fellow Americans could understand how the Islam he knows is tortured by terrorists trying to justify Mayhem. We disguised him and changed his voice so he could tell us about one of the most important investigations of his career. The target was a 30-year-old Tunisian who was working toward a doctorate at a Canadian university.

It was in 2012 when routine surveillance of phone calls and Shahab's travels esi provided Canadian intelligence and the FBI have reason to worry: Shahab was talking to really bad people abroad. He made two trips to Iran and a handful of other intelligence services gathering evidence that was presented to us that led us to believe that we needed to find out who he was. That he had a visa to attend an academic conference in the United States, so the FBI wanted Tamel NRI to hang himself as bait in case Esay was recruiting for Al-Qaeda? What did you do?

So I created my Legend and made myself recruitable. I wanted him to choose me. I wanted him to go to bed that night wondering what he could do to become my friend. The legend or false biography of him was that of a wealthy Arab American real estate investor with a painful private grudge. How did you meet? We met on a flight from Houston to San Jose California, not by chance we met on a flight from Houston to San Jose California that planned an accidental meeting in June 2012, it is called a coup because when they collided with someone they boarded as strangers and the destination he did the rest where the people were in his seat, the people were in my seat, it was a legitimate mix up and as he was talking to the flight attendant, she noticed that he had a long beard, looked middle eastern and was probably muslim, so he stuck his head out and said, but what does it mean do you speak Arabic in Arabic I said and he looked at me and said he knew and then the conversation continued in Arabic, then he turned to the other stewardess and told her that we should sit together, he insisted in that he chose me all the time.

The key thing is to get your idea right. What is the process you go through to take on one of these roles? It starts that morning I'm traveling, assuming I'm traveling undercover in Alias ​​uh, I shower and put on for this case I put on tammer clothes I put on tammer watch his shoes I drive Hammer's car his wallets in my pocket uh his phone is on me and I drive to the beach and I sit on the beach and I talk to myself loud like crazy reciting everything there is to know about tamel norri his company his family his legend over and over again the FBI created A story for Tamar Eluri An online presence A real office for her investment company where a receptionist answered the phone There was property searches a house with fake IDs and criticizes the legend that there was a fake personal tragedy.

Elor's false background said his mother had died of negligence in a US hospital due to anti-Muslim discrimination. That lie completed the picture of a rich Arab American who had a reason to hate Shahab Esay thought his new friend was made to order, which of course he was for 10 months, the men Drew close Esag twisted the Quran to justify the attack to the West, admitted that his trips to Iran were to meet with a senior Al official. -Surveillance of the Qaeda leader showed that Esay was checking Tamar Eln's backstory and one night in a basement in Toronto Eluri was interrogated by Esire and three accomplices What are you doing?

How do you do it? It is real? Is it commercial real estate? Is it residential? That? What do you do when you fly here? What are you doing here? It sounded like an interrogation. This interrogation was so sharp. Elri feared his cover had been blown. He scanned the room in case he had to escape, but the cop in you had figured out where. the exit was and I had decided in what order I was going to shoot the people in the room if I got to that point, well absolutely at that point, as you get older and slower, you realize that you always go by the young people first, which leads me to ask in all seriousness where courage comes from.

I can argue that he's probably in more danger crossing the street here in New York City than I am when I'm stuck in a cell alaa if my Legend holds up. To them I am worth much more safely, they protect me more than theirs because Tamar Al MRI means access to the West, she passed the interrogation and enlisted in what Al-Qaeda hoped would be their frustrated Encore until 9/11 that was playing. planning to derail a train from New York City to Toronto, how was I going to do it right? That changed several times, or breaking the tracks, using explosives, when the conclusion was that the train was derailing on a bridge that had as little water as possible to ensure the death of everyone on that train was this just some kind of chimera no, that was Al-Qaeda's task the VIA Rail train carries hundreds of passengers from New York to Toronto in September 2012 asay eluri and another a man checked this bridge near Toronto the scene of the planned attack while a surveillance team watching from above eluri recorded shahab esay explaining how the disaster would unfold it would seem that you have a lot to arrest shahab at this time why the investigation continues because shahab revealed to me that there was an american sleeper, he told me that there was an american version of him and that, although he did not know who he was, his trainers, the senior leaders of Al-Qaeda told him that they would put them both. together when the time came there was an American Al-Qaeda agent inside the United States that is what Sheab believed and I believed him the possibility that there was an Al-Qaeda agent in the United States took the investigation in a new direction Tamar Eluri lured the Wrath to New York City, hoping to develop clues, the Wrath asked Eluri to show him the sights, including Time Square.

He didn't see Time Square as a

foreign

forest. He saw it as an opportunity to kill Americans. An opportunity as Aire suggested for a future New Year's Eve when over 100,000 people would fill the streets multiple explosions um that were timed 5 to 10 seconds apart when one exploded he thought about where the crowd would run and that's where he wanted let the next bomb go off uh Maximum Carnage, maximum casualties He was hoping to get away with taking the train so he could go to Time Square and then Sheab said Al-Qaeda changed gears. After 9/11 they lost some of their best minds.

No more martyrdom that they did not want to lose. The soldiers would no longer have access to the West, so do what you can, hide and do it again after their visit to Time Square. Es Aire wanted to see where the Twin Towers had fallen and while he rubbed his beard and arm. Around me, Tammer said, this place needs another 9911 and we're going to give it to them. I saw red at that moment. It was the hardest time in my career to stay professional. Here I am on hallowed ground and he told me that in At that very moment I could feel a pen in the HCK on my jacket.

I imagined stabbing him in the eye and left him dead right where he was. You almost blew your cover. Yeah, well, it's part of what we do, even if we pretend to be. someone we hate while hanging out with people we hate maybe it was the culmination of everything that was going on the stress and pressure of identifying the sleeper uh shab rants about West uh whatever but the point was uh I almost broke down that night but fortunately for the case I didn't want the FBI to want more time, but in April 2013 the Boston Marathon was attacked and a week later the Canadian government insisted on closing his Al-Qaeda cell Shahab Esay and the accomplice on the bridge was tried , convicted and sentenced to life in prison, but the trail of the American sleeper, if it existed, went cold there has not been a day since April 22, 2013 that I have woken up no matter where I am huh, that I don't think about the American Sleeper Tamar's book The American Radical nri was cleared for publication after an FBI review.

The Bureau will keep him out of action for a while to make sure his identity is not discovered after the book and our interview. Terrorism has come to mean Islamic extremism, but the fact is that since 9/11. more than twice as many Americans have been murdered by white supremacists. This threat came to light last August when a protest at a Civil War monument in Charlottesville, Virginia, ended with one dead among 19 wounded. No one understands the white supremacist movement as well as Christians. Pelini knows this because he helped build it. This is the story of an American terrorist.

His long journey to Redemption and his fight now to lift others from the depths of hate. You hated black people. I thought that if. You hated Jews. I thought that if. I wanted to kill them at that moment I did it Christian Pelini was not born to hate he was taught his education began in the Chicago suburb of Blue Island he was 14 years old he was at odds with his Italian immigrant parents and lost he had been bullied and picked on because you know everything from my name to my short stature and my parents who couldn't speak English very well and uh, I just never fit in, I never did and one of Pelini's neighbors was a national figure in the neo-Nazi movement when you first arrived.

I met this man in the alley and then the rest of the skinheads in that town. What was it they were promising you? They promised me Paradise. They promised me they would get me out of whatever hell I was living in. or marginalization and to some extent they gave me a new identity. Now I was this powerful person um and they gave me a community that accepted me. That community was a racist gang with its own culture and its own music which is pich chelini with a song he wrote called white power the white men f for our race we ended up with a punch in the face the music gave me a very specific focus on what was happening to me and was trying to give me the answers of why that was happening and what those answers were, those answers were that everyone was against me as a white man, that they were intentionally excluding me, and that diversity was a word key to white genocide and that if I didn't protect my proud European heritage, we would. being wiped out when he arrived at Eisenhower High School, he had resorted to violence on his last day there, he hit the same black student twice and I was taken to the office and the office of the principal, who was also a black woman and In that office I had a very heated physical argument with the security guard, Mr.

Holmes, that's security guard Johnny Holmes, who has never forgotten what he saw in the principal's office that day, she hugged Chris, he said, you're black, get your dirty. Outside of me, there were some words I said to the director that weren't very kind, in fact they were disgusting and very racist, then he turned from her to me and started punching me in the chest like this and continued. to say that how he lived to see the day that a was hanging from every light post in Blue Island and he actually confronted me to try to stop me and um and subdued me until the police arrived and the police arrested me.

Chelini was sent off for the sixth and final time, which only made him more compromised. It's me, in 1994, looking a lot like someone who is a terrorist. Right now I'm the leader of an organization of skinheads and the people behind them. I am my soldiers, people who would have done anything for me and that last photo, where are you? I'm standing in front of the gates of the Daau concentration camp in Germany, where an estimated 41,000, mostly Jews, were murdered, what are you thinking? I was thinking. what did he wantburn down the world because he was so angry about it that his anger led Pelini to recruit dozens of new members and unleash them on a campaign of assault, vandalism, and theft.

The violence reached its peak one night when Pelini and his soldiers chased a black man from a restaurant. We caught that individual and proceeded to beat him brutally and at one point when he was kicking him on the ground and his swollen face was covered in blood, he opened his eyes. eyes and they connected with mine that was the first. That time I felt empathy for one of my victims and that was the last time I listened to anyone. Years passed from that moment until Pichini turned around. His wife and his children abandoned him. He went through 5 years of depression, but in the end he says it started his anger. to grow cold when he was confronted by the kindness of blacks and Jews who refuse to return hate.

The truth is that he had never met or had a meaningful dialogue or engagement with anyone who he thought hated him and when they took the step to try to communicate with me. The demonization of them in my head began to crack at age 20. Later, Christian Pelini, 44, is making peace, this was a United Nations peace conference in Geneva, USA, trains the police, the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security in the mentality and tactics of the white supremacy movement, you know, 30 years ago, we were skin. We had swastikas and shaved heads on our heads and we could be identified pretty easily, so we decided at that point to grow our hair long so we could trade our boots for suits and encouraged people to get jobs in law enforcement to go into the military. and getting training and recruiting there, which is why it was difficult to spot racists in the midst of the Charlottesville violence, which is why Charlottesville is a pivotal moment in this country for hate.

Orin Seagull traces the white supremacist transformation as director of the center on extremism at Anti-Defamation. League the ADL trains law enforcement officers in 250 agencies. You know, look no further than Charlottesville. One of the lasting impressions that people have are these white kids in polo shirts and khakis that almost look like a frat scene, but they're holding tiki torches and we're talking about how Jews are responsible for the ills of this country. They are racist. They are anti-immigrant. They are misogynists. But they look like our children. That is the changing face of hate in this country since 9/11. has focused on radical Islamic terrorism, but what do the facts tell us?

The data tells us that 74% of extremist-related murders in this country in the last 10 years have been carried out by right-wing extremists, not Islamic extremists, including white supremacists, yes, so white. Supremacists in particular have been responsible for the majority of murders, even in the last 10 years. It is social media that drives the momentum of the movement. Posts like these promoted the Charlottesville protest, which attracted people from 35 states. It was the largest white supremacist demonstration in 15. For years, the most common hashtag for racist tweets now is white genocide and it's this kind of thing that attracts young people who, frankly, live in an environment right now where It's hard to find something to believe in today.

Pich Chelini is trying to give white supremacists something else to believe in. He says he has counseled 200 members of the movement. You have to be dealing with some stress and I want to know how you're dealing with it. Like parents and courts in Chicago were looking for him. man who broke windows and painted swastikas on synagogue was sentenced to a year of counseling with pich chelini they call you a nazi Dean in grade school yes Dean Chabot is another neo-Nazi who followed pich chelini out of white supremacy Dean, do you consider yourself out o Do you consider that you are in the process?

I'm completely out of it in fact, doing this interview is the final step. How is it possible that once this goes on air there will be no turning back? If you try to go back, someone will kill you. This interview wasn't really his. final step Dean, would you mind showing me these tattoos? Yes sir and how old were you when you got these done? They are between 15 and 17 years old and when you got the tattoos you thought what I thought was complete. I finally have my ink. I finally have your. ink, everyone was indelibly in the movement, yes, Dean, are you ready, yes, I'm ready for this.

P Chelini arranged for a plastic surgeon to erase the last traces of Chabot's former life. The reason I'm doing this is because he's finishing a chapter. in my life getting the hate out of my skin is good for you when you sit down for the first time with one of these young people you are trying to change what you say to them I am there to listen because they are used to people not listening to them their most difficult case is that of the most notorious white supremacist of our time in 2015 Dylan Rof murdered nine African Americans during a Bible study in Charleston, South Carolina.

I had to do it because someone had to do something because black people are killing white people. every day pich chelini wrote to rof in the hope that rof would express remorse rof responded this way to pelini's letter well, start with uh traitor, you really have chosen, haven't you? I know you won't be, but you really should be. ashamed of yourself i hope you know that you are 100 times worse than the jews you have surrounded yourself with what does that tell you that tells me that you are completely indoctrinated by these alternative sets of facts these conspiracy theories this movement driven rhetoric that puts all the blame on the Jewish people who are so entrenched in that information they have been given that it has become their reality Redemption comes to those who face the evil they have done Christian Pelini's first work after white supremacy was as a computer technician and by chance he was sent to work at a high school Eisenhower High School where he apologized to Johnny Holmes, who was then still head of security.

He knew he was genuine and he was excited and it was a very, very special moment that exchange. I'm eternally grateful and that's so important to be happy for you and I'm so glad it happened thank you, thank you, you're welcome. I think what I regret most, aside from the people I physically hurt, were all the promising young people who could. I would have had a great normal life if I hadn't gotten in their way if I hadn't recruited them. You know there are many who went to prison, many who ended up dead and that is my biggest regret.

Do you fear for your safety? um, I get it. death threats, uh, daily, but the way I look at it is that for eight years of my life in my youth I was willing to die for something that was wrong, so if I wasn't doing what I was doing to try to help get people out of this movement i don't know if i could live with myself there is no doubt that bryant venus betrayed america what you will have to decide for yourself is whether he has done enough to atone for his crimes the man from new town York Raised Catholic on Long Island, he joined Al Qaeda in 2008, but after being captured, Venus became an informant who cooperates with the FBI today.

US prosecutors say Bryant Venus may have been the most valuable witness in the war against Al Qaeda. Venus impressed the prosecutors and judges in his case so much that they prepared to protect him from the prospect of Al-Qaeda's revenge by placing him in the federal witness protection program. Everything was prepared until Bryant Venus says he was betrayed, you can assume that Al-Qaeda wants to kill you, yes, right now, yes, why be on television so people know what went wrong? Life went wrong for Briant Venus at a young age he was a troubled teenager his mother kicked him out Venus was looking for a purpose and converted to Islam then he was seduced by the online fanaticism of al-Qaeda recruiter anoir Al alaki we are fighting for a noble cause we are fighting for God alaki was an American killed in 2011 by an American drone many of his sermons were captivating, very fascinating, I suppose you could I said I was talking about injustices in the world, about a crisis in the Middle East and it hit me in the heart and you decided that the problems in the Middle East were your problems, it was a problem that I could get involved in.

Yes, in 2007, at the age of 24, Venus traveled to Pakistan and Afghanistan. He wanted to kill the Americans at that time. Yes. Enus was met by terrorists who had longed for an American recruit traveling with an American passport. I asked someone. What was which group? is this and he says no, this is Al-Qaeda. I said this is Al-Qaeda and he says yes. I say this is not what you see in the videos, this is not what you see in the news, what do you mean? I usually see monkey bars where guys are training or crawling under barbed wire and I didn't do any of that.

It wasn't like that when I was there. What kind of training did you receive at the alqa camp? Okay, so we made basic Soviet weapons. dig a little deeper into the theory of explosives, uh, suicide bomb vest. Venus says a high-ranking Al-Qaeda leader asked her for advice on possible targets in the US. I gave her information about the Long Island Railroad, a plot on how to attack it, basically the tunnel that connects all the trains that They lead to Manhattan, so if the tunnel is destroyed it would hurt the economy in New York, they wanted to attack the economy of the United States, yes sir, the death toll is not really the main goal they probably had.

You've never heard of the Long Island Rail Road before, you may have relatives or friends on the railroad, chances are you do, how do you feel about that? I regret it now, I'm actually very grateful that no one was hurt, and it was in the idea stages and that's it. As it was, did he participate in any attacks on US bases in Afghanistan? Yes, sir, I was part of a defensive team to protect the group that was launching the rockets. What was your job in case a Pakistani helicopter came? We were supposed to attack that. helicopter from attacking the group uh Down Below in 2008, after 7 months in terrorist camps, venas took a short break to visit the city of pesha, apparently the Pakistanis were watching, he was arrested, handed over to the United States and the few days was found.

At the federal prison in Brooklyn, FBI agents offered him the choice between life and prison or telling him everything about Al-Qaeda to help convince him. Officers took him to Cony Island, took him to Nathan's Hot Dog Stand. Well, I was in the car and a detective went. and I got an order, they brought it back and they brought you a hot dog, hot dogs, hamburgers, fries, drink and they showed you Cony Island and they told you you can have a life again, yeah, spread your arms and say you really want to go back to prison and go to super max for the rest of your life and I said you know what my chance is to get a second chance at life and I said you know what I'll take so Venus decided to plead guilty and her sentencing was postponed until the government was able to evaluate the quality of his cooperation, he was confined in prison, Venus spent 8 years meeting more than 100 times with prosecutors and the FBI.

Venus changed the way we thought about how he recruits Al Qeda and who recruits Al QA. Andrew Cab was the head of FBI counterterrorism and oversaw the Venus case. This was before McCab became best known for opening two investigations of President Trump. How valuable Bryant Venus was to the FBI. From New York to Al Qaeda, you didn't know those things before you heard about their experience, you completely broke the mold of the way we thought business was happening before Venus, the idea that any American could just head to Pakistan and go to look for Al Qaeda. and joining that group was something that we thought could not be done.

He was a GameChanger for the FBI in terms of Al Qaeda. I would say yes, his information has stopped more attacks than you can conceive. Steve Zesu is a defense attorney. With a higher security clearance, he has represented several terrorism suspects, including Bryant Venus. I have reviewed both classified and unclassified information, and the government's court filings make it unequivocally clear that his information stopped attacks, saved lives, and allowed our military to continue. the battle to take him away, if you will, were drone attacks launched based on his information, without a doubt, Venus's defense attorney points to drone attacks that killed 14 suspected jihadists where Venus had lived, so they were killing these people who used to be your friends, yes sir, how did you feel about them being my friends at one point, but, you know, if I have to leave that life behind, I can't let them not be my friends anymore?

In 2017, prosecutors wrote this to the judge in The Case of Venus Nicholas Gus saying that the defendant provided substantial assistance to the government is an understatement; in fact, he may have been the most valuable cooperating witness regarding Al-Qaeda. JudgeGus agreed, adding that Venus had put her life in grave danger to help. In his country, it was an extraordinary case. Mr. Venus has certain gifts that God gave him, one of which is that he has a photographic memory. He remembered every place he had been. He remembered most of the people he had known. He was able to explain to her the government, uh, how it recruits Al Qaeda, which is why it was so valuable.

With that in mind, Judge Gus ruled that the eight years Venus had spent cooperating from a prison cell was sufficient, the sentence, uh, was time served with additional 90 days, why 90 days in order. so that he has the opportunity to be placed in witness protection once he is released, so you understood that they were going to put him in the witness protection program. Yes, it absolutely was and what happened on day 88 of the 90 day period. I was informed that this office of the justice department had denied him Witness Protection status, the compliance operations office had never had a problem before in any of my cases involving Cooperators who sought witness protection in prison.

Venus had already been in prison. Witness Protection Judge Gus told us that it is routine for the same protection to continue after release, but the US Department of Justice witness security program known as witsec rejected him without explanation, no reasons given and prosecutors requested reconsideration. The reconsideration was. They denied that prosecutors work for the Department of Justice. FBI agents are part of the Department of Justice. They all agree that he should be in the witness protection program and then another agency within the Department of Justice overrules them. That's what worries me, that they had 8,700. at least 8,700 Cooperators placed in witness protection and I know some of these Cooperators, they have been my defendants.

I have had practically the entire banana organized crime family on my file. I have had many trials involving murderers and drug lords. in my file, so I am not a newcomer to this process and I was surprised that they took such an arrogant and irresponsible step as they did to deny protection to Mr. Venus's witnesses, the witsec office of the Department of Justice refused an interview, but in a statement to 60 Minutes he hinted at an explanation in which he highlighted just one of the factors in his decision process that witsec must take into account the risks associated with giving a person a new identity and placing them in a community that does not know the identity real of the person.

Judge Gus argues that if Venus poses an ongoing risk to the community, then witness protection would ensure the government would keep an eye on him, and after all, Venus has done Gus says the justice department has an obligation to keep him safe. It is extremely rare, in my experience, for a federal judge to speak on a case and I wonder why he has done this today and I have never done it before in 18 years. As a judge, I will not allow the people who made this decision to hide behind his decision and it is a potential problem in the future.

In his opinion, this would have a chilling effect on people who might consider cooperating in the future. That's today. Bryant Venus is alone right now. I'm working washing dishes in a restaurant, that's how I pay the bills. The best Al-Qaeda informant of all time, we're told, is washing dishes, that's right. You're probably the only dishwasher lecturing at West Point, uh, yeah, after 8 years in prison cooperating with the government. Venus is still fighting terrorism. He has spoken at the US Military Academy and with research organizations about the false appeal of jihad and is still helping researchers do so.

Do you consider yourself as we sit here right now, yes, at peace with the United States. I always feel like it's an ongoing process that should continue for years to come. I do not forgive him for attempting to engage in Jihad against the United States. Not that you forgive him, but he took a step forward and did it. The government needs to come together to fulfill its side of the deal. In the long and bloody history of terrorism, few acts of violence have been more savage or shocking than those. carried out by ISIS, including the beheadings of young American hostages in 2014, the videos went viral and catapulted ISIS onto the world stage for the parents of one of those American art and surely the murder of his son Steven, 31, It was devastating because of the brutality of his execution and because they think he could have been saved if it weren't for what even the White House now admits was his own ineffectiveness in dealing with the crisis, but what really sealed his son's fate, according to believe the salt LOF, it is the government's policy against paying the ransom I am Steven Joel Saloff.

I'm sure you already know exactly who I am and why I appear before you. Steven Joel Satloff was beheaded by ISIS. His execution on September 2, 2014 was seen around the world on video. Have you ever done it? Look at it. I saw Steven's body with his head resting on his chest and I had to say that because I needed to be sure it was him. Steven was born and raised in Miami, attended college in Israel, and became a freelance journalist reporting from war zones. where information was scarce, such as Yemen, Benghazi, Libya and Syria, where he went in the summer of 2013, just before crossing to Aleppo, he called his father, contacted me and told me not to worry and that if I didn't hear from him in 4 days. that I should contact one of his colleagues o That's sinister, he didn't hear from his son not only for 4 days, it was an excruciating four months and finally they received a ransom letter with demands for the government to release all the Muslims in Custody in the US or then there is a last option 100 million euros will secure the release of Stevens, which is something like 137 million dollars what was your reaction was how the hell are we going to raise this money?

They thought the US government would help them, but they didn't. baffled and then enraged when they say they found a stone wall US policy prohibiting ransom payments is one of the hardest jobs I've ever done Lisa Monaco President Obama's counterterrorism assistant oversaw the hostage crisis these are horrible decisions in On the one hand, if you don't pay a ransom, you are putting an innocent life at risk, on the other hand, if you do, you are fueling the same activity that put them at risk in the first place. Have you ever felt that the policy could be The policy is wrong and it has been a decades-long policy of not paying ransom.

I think it's the right policy, so you didn't question that we didn't think it was important to maintain it, but with the exception of the UK, most European countries do it. paying the ransom without publicly admitting it Steven was held with 22 other hostages, including three Americans James Foley, Peter Cassic and Kayla Mueller, who were killed once the European governments paid the ransom. Isis freed her citizens, one of whom smuggled out this letter from Steven that he was talking to. how he can't stand to see all the captives leaving from all the different countries, how could America sit by and do nothing while the European hostages came out and talked about mock executions and water boardings that the salt lofs decided they would try to raise They received part of the money, but then they and other American families attended a meeting in Washington with National Security Council officials.

We were all saying, "Well, why can't we try to save our children?" and they said, "Because it's against the law." law we don't negotiate with terrorists they said you would be prosecuted they said you could be prosecuted and also your donors could be prosecuted so if I gave you money you could be prosecuted correct someone said are you kidding me? yes, they were a bit uncont, yes, we defended ourselves verbally, they were threatened that they could be prosecuted, it is true, so what is true is that some families felt threatened and that was unacceptable and that should never have happened.

Are you suggesting that they may not have been threatened? What I'm suggesting is that I wasn't present when threats were made, but what matters, Leslie, is that these families felt that way while going through the most horrible time they've ever experienced, but that the policy was so true. have actually been prosecuted, could someone who contributed to paying the ransom also be prosecuted? So the truth is that the justice department has never prosecuted a family or friends of a family holding PID for ransom, but was it politics? Well, what is the policy of the United States? The United States government will not pay ransoms or make concessions to hostage-taking terrorists.

That policy is based in part on the presumption that paying a ransom invites more hostage takings, but that is refuted by a new study that examined the case of all known Western hostages taken since 9/11. was co-authored by Peter Bergen, a counterterrorism expert for the nonpartisan New America Foundation. They don't necessarily know you're an American when they take you as some kind of target of opportunity, so some countries have been known to pay ransom, the French, the Germans. The Spanish, although they do not admit it, do not admit it, but they do, their citizens have much better results than the Americans.

Americans are big outliers, here you are twice as likely to have a negative result compared to everyone. another Westerner says negative result, it means murdered, murdered, died in captivity or simply remaining in captivity because 14 of the European hostages held with Steven returned home, those from countries that did not pay the ransom, four Americans and two British did not die , I follow. playing out in my own head this horrible situation where the American hostages watch the others being freed and I wonder if it wouldn't have been better if our government had done what the European governments did, which was pay a ransom but then deny it for para save its citizens, why couldn't we have?

We would continue to fuel their terrorist activity, whether it be hostage-taking or terrorist plots to kill Americans here at Home or elsewhere, it is not an activity in which the United States government should engage. the business of financing, what do you say to critics of the policy of not paying a ransom? um that the beheadings of the Americans ended up having more value to Isis than any money, that's really what put them on the international map. These beheading videos were a goal of mine for Isis, do you see it that way? I don't and I think that's giving too much credit to brutal murderous thugs.

What about the argument that if you pay a ransom you are only encouraging them to kidnap more than the money will go to terrorism and then what is the answer? It's hard to go back to what President Obama told us in person that he would do everything in his power to save his children if he were in the same situation. and I say he should put himself in the same situation and I believe the government has a responsibility to protect its citizens in any way it can. What do you say when you hear people argue that Steph knew he was putting his life at risk? going to Syria at that time, um, and you know the kind of burdens that were on him, Stevenh was driven by the truth, he had to report the truth, he saw that there was no information coming out of these areas and that's really what drove him. .

In the summer of 2014, almost a year after Steven was kidnapped, President Obama ordered a military operation to rescue the hostages. This involved a large number of military service members and special operators risking their lives. Entering the heart of ISIS territory in Syria and while monitoring the operation, we received some very devastating words: it's a dry hole, which meant they weren't there. This is James, right, Foy, about seven weeks later, James Foley became the first. of three decapitated American hostages Steven appears at the end of the video the life of this American citizen Obama depends on his next decision the salt Lofts then received an AUD a message that sounds as if Steven was forced to record designed to pressure the US government . which was given by the FBI, this is always difficult for me because it's actually his voice and it makes me feel like he's still in the room with us with mom.

I don't have much time and I probably won't get this opportunity again, so I would do it. I would like to get straight to the point. My life depends on Obama's next decision. Mom, please don't let Obama kill me. Mom, you can still save my life, just as the families of my previous cellmates, who I'm sure you knew, are fighting for me. I love you powerful, I have to ruin myself and I'm sorry, I can apologize, it's cruel, Barry, I don't know what they wanted us to do and I always said mom like that Mom Mom Mom yes, yeahThey found out about Steven's death.

A few days after that and he is in a much better place. We know he is in a better place and you know he is no longer suffering. Sometimes, a couple of months later, they met with President Obama. I asked the president. I told him how you felt when My son was being held by the neck and they said this message is for you. President Obama Steven's life depends on his next decision. How do you feel about it? And um, he looked down and couldn't really answer the question, I guess. is a question that surprised him or surprised me that I even asked him how you feel now about what happened, perhaps your role with the families whose children were beheaded.

I feel like in many ways we didn't do right by these families that we failed them, you feel like you failed the families, we have Americans who were brutally murdered after the beheadings. She formed a task force to review how the government handles the hostage taking, that included a meeting with the families, it was a lot of raw emotion and a lot of frustration and pain anger at you anger at us and anger at the loss of your loved ones anger towards the government one of the conclusions of the task force was that the various government agencies working with hostages were not coordinating with each other, which led to the creation of this new unit, have we seen any claims of responsibility that are not already run by the FBI?

It brings together all key agencies working with hostages, including the CIA's Departments of State and Defense, in one location to work side by side 24/7. Share intelligence and keep families informed of any outcome no sir not yet, however the no rescue policy was not changed, not even revised, although the justice department in this public document virtually promised not to prosecute a family or his friends to pay a ransom to Terrace. It's a good policy now, are you happy with the way it turned out? It's a better policy than it was. I mean, now it at least gives people a chance to try to save their relatives, but I think it's far from really solving the problem. problem because there is still money to raise and pay and the average family just can't do that and you believe our government should absolutely sacrifice human life, how do you let an American go like that, let them kill him, murder everyone humans? valuable, everyone has a family and they want them to come home, salt.

LS has started a foundation in Steven's memory called Two Lives that, among other things, funds security training for freelance journalists traveling to war zones; dozens of Americans are still being held hostage today. 12 days that Donald Trump will have to decide what is the best strategy to bring them home