Mast cell activation syndrome

taught, um however, I think that when someone has seen someone like me and they go back to their doctor and tell them this is what I received, I feel a lot better with the treatment, I think then I would hope that that doctor would have the curiosity to know more aboutYou know, but there are more and more doctors, so when in 2016, when I started, apart from Professor Viula, I didn't know any other doctors in the UK, there were probably some, but I just didn't know them and then but now you know, I know several cardiologists who talk about Mcel

activation

syndrome

and recognize it in their patients.

Several gastroenterologists who see it in their patients. So more and more of us are helping these people, which is great. yeah, so that's kind of a background, then of course Long Co came along. I want to continue with Long Co, but you've modified my curiosity about histamine, I mean, histamine is basically a pretty simple chemical, I mean, Are people intolerant to histamine or do certain foods cause

cell

s en masse to release their own endogenous histamine? Yeah, exactly, so what tends to happen is um and it seems to be a double whammy in a lot of these patients, so there's there's two conditions there's a condition called histamine intolerance and that's not a very good name for it really. that group of patients if we do their genetics we can see and if we do blood tests we can see that they do not produce enough diamine Oxidase and diamine oxidase are an enzyme that metabolizes histamine from food, so it is in the stomach and your body You realize that while histamine is good to have, you don't want to consume too much, too much is problematic and um. the body recognizes it and has diamond oxidase in the stomach to reduce the amount of histamine in food so that less is absorbed and it doesn't increase histamine levels too much, but it is also in the bloodstream a little so that it can be measured , diamond oxidase can be measured and most of my patients who have M care are their uh or diin Ox remains deficient and they don't produce enough, so it's a double whammy, you know, they don't.

They produce enough diamine oxides to reduce the absorption of histamine, so they have excessive absorption of histamine from their food and they also have masking

cell

s that release too much histamine too easily, so they end up with these high levels that the body really doesn't. can stand and they clear up very quickly, those two things tend to go together: the lack of diamond oxidase to remove histamine, so they're not getting rid of what's already there, and massive cellular

activation

syndrome

, the mass that tend to go together, well, it's interesting that in that type of literature it is said that histamine intolerance is, in this case, 35% of the population, but we know that Mel's activation syndrome, as defines Professor Molderings at Bon University, it is about 17 to 20% of the population now, we do nutrigenomics on many of my patients, we look at their genetics and we look at their methylation cycle, etc., and one of the things that What we do is look at your histamine metabolism and I must say that it is very rare for my patients with whom I suspect Massin to have normal production of diamine oxidase, most of them have a deficiency in diamine oxide.

It's creepy, wouldn't you think there's no obvious reason in my mind why they're related, it's that the genes are close together or something, maybe because we know that apparently 50 mutations have been identified in the kit genes that may be caused, what are the genes in the kit? Tina, the genes in the kit are what are giving the code um if you will for the M cells for the white blood cells, so they have identified 50 different mutations that can result in the activation of m and probably some people have different combinations of each of them and some people just have some people can be unlucky and having more than a few tends to be hereditary so it is genetic for sure so there will always be a family history of IBS or chronic fatigue in some member of the family or chronic headaches or ertic Carrier of psoriasis rosacea exma um, so yes or they will have someone with joint pain and fibromia.

Other things, fibromyalgia is a symptom, right? And these patients complain about all these things. 80% are hypermobile. 80% have hypermobility. 80% of mcast patients are women and 30% will suffer from interstitial cystitis and that is why Professor VI Kolar is aware of the condition because he treats interstitial cystitis as a Eurogynecologist, that is the particular area of ​​interest of him . Wow, there is a lot of fascinating information. I want to get back to that, but let's catch people up a little bit on dough cells, so my simplistic idea is that dough cells are a type of white blood cell, perhaps derived from basal-type cells, but They don't circulate, they sit in the tissues and store histamine and then when we want an inflammatory response, which of course is good, the heat, the pain, the redness, the swelling will increase circulation in an area, it will give us more nutrients, it will give us more blood supply, it will help the healing process, so when we want that, then these cells degranulate and release histamine, so I am also right in saying that mass cells are histamine storage units, but unfortunately they store much more, they have a thousand different types of cytotypes, so they have a lot of chemical potential and biological capacity and um, so you are absolutely right, they are usually in the T in the tissues, they are interstitial and they are everywhere our body is. in contact with the outside environment, so they are all under our skin and When you understand and think about this, you will be able to see why the symptoms manifest themselves the way they do: they are under the skin, lining the nasal passages , they line the sinuses, they line our nasal passages everywhere.

The lungs line the intestine from the mouth to the bottom to the end line the urogenital tract and are. I thought of them as the bouncers at a club and they're right inside the door and they really want to keep the undesirables out, okay, but they're on mcass patients. These bouncers get a little overzealous and start reacting and want to fight whatever comes their way and there are some things they should just ignore and let in, and they don't. So they overreact and when they react they release some or all or different combinations of these types of cytes and we don't even know what all of them do, but so far a thousand cytes have been identified and a thousand cytes in total have been identified or a thousand cytes of yes no, they are They have identified a thousand types of cyto, I think Bon University.

I think of cyto as cell-to-cell hormones, it's a chemical released by one cell that can have a kinetic effect on another cell, yeah, and then there are and then there are chemokines, they release 350 chemokines that are little messengers and these carry little messengers to other mass cells, so if there was an assault on an area, the chemokines could be released and they run to other Marcels who are a bit dumb and tell them to react. also and join in so you know believe a reason why we can sometimes get a systemic release of histamine, which is yeah, exactly, so if someone, um, if someone's M cells also line the nerves, histamine is a neurotransmitter and they are also present in the stomach, they release acid in the stomach, you know, the chromatic cells, so they have a very important role to play in cognitive functions, the Cadia rhythm, you know, this is histamine.

Histamine has an important role to play. um, but we don't want too much, we don't want too much, we want it appropriately where it's needed at that time and then get rid of it, but in these poor patients it's found in large quantities, um, plus some of the other cytotypes that can cause bruising. I mean my daughter, when she was very sick, she would bruise so easily that she just had to touch her skin and she would leave her fingerprints on the bruises and on the patients, it's often a question I ask my patients. . Do you bruise easily?

Oh yes, you cover bruises easily. I don't even remember hitting myself and I have a big bruise on my leg. cytotypes and that can cause bruising and you have um elastase 2 that can be released and that causes the membranes to rupture um there are also some um some that cause CL are clotting factors that actually cause the blood to clot so you have bleeding you have clotting, you have inflammation, etc., in Marel activation syndrome, there is usually always inflammation, there may or may not be allergic type reactions including anaphylaxis, but there may not be and there may be tropisms of the Dr. and the Dist tropisms are new tissue formations, um, and they may or may not be there, so they could be things like cysts, cysts in the breast, in the pancreas, and they're often associated with them and they think it's an ad tropism of the M cells. um, it could also be um poor healing, poor wound healing, um, so it can affect the healing process and other mechanisms, normal mechanisms in the body, it could be, um, what else, so it could be um , bleeding and also, like I say, um, clotting problems, so people can have a combination of these things, maybe they just have inflammation or they can have inflammation and type of allergy, you know, symptoms or whatever, and depending Where this stimulation has occurred, the M cells have released, the chemicals will depend on the symptoms they have, so if it is in the lung they will have asthma-like symptoms and many of my patients tell me that they have been given inhalers that do not work because It is not actually the airway constriction that is causing the problem. inflammation, then the mechanism is different, so what you need is anti-inflammatories, no sorry, antihistamines to reduce that activity, not anti-inflammatories, anti-inflammatories make them worse, so check, there is a wide range of symptoms here, so I have possible blood bruising, chronic inflammation that can express itself in different systems, like irritable bowel syndrome, maybe cardiovascular, maybe respiratory, inflammatory, uh, symptoms, rashes, ticaria, which is like those itchy rashes, do you?

Isn't it?, hives, sometimes, hives spread everywhere. the surface of the skin yes, big, big, kind of intensely itchy, presumably very uncomfortable, sometimes it can just be from the rubbing of clothing, they are very super sensitive, you know, so it can be where they have debris, yeah They have waste. worn out pants or something so when you open the pants they have this big wheel around their waist where the clothing has touched them and they still have the symptoms headaches, swelling, edema, um, a variation over time seems to be the key. Characteristic I mean, it seems to describe an incredibly broad spectrum of clinical manifestations here.

What specifically stands out to you about the diagnosis of massive cellular activation syndrome? That is a very good question. You really start to recognize patterns, inflammatory patterns and, um, too. What else could explain it? So if you have someone, if once you've seen some patients like this, you start to really recognize the patterns that you know they have, they often have sensitive skin and they cut tags. not all clothes, but most do, they often have an extremely sensitive sense of smell because the label rubs against the back of the neck or something, yes, yes, but they often have a very strong sense of smell, so it's like if their senses were really heightened and I mean a very strong sense of smell, a little bit like a kind of greyhound, you know, and then, um, they often don't like bright lights, lights and loud noises, because They are intolerant of this exaggeration, the nerves have been very high. sensitized by deactivation of adjacent cells presumably yes presumably and um and so this is It's worth saying that this is quite, it's a very new area that is being described and explored and the research that it's in is in its infancy and We are hopeful that as more biological tests become available to measure some of the cytokines that are released, it will be easier for us to see patterns of these types of cytokines that are released to give this symptom and therefore this treatment is best for that patient, etc. etc there is a lot of overlap and the symptoms will vary from time to time from person to person and within the same person at different times, you know this, so it can be confusing and often patients accept the normal, you know their symptoms as just me, oh, it's just me, you know, I'm always intolerant to that little bit of food or I always turn bright red when I have a glass of wine or they just accept it like you know, um, if they're not that bad, it's just that's what I am, but in general I have this condition, as your M cells become more and more activated, they become more and more sensitive in a gradual way, so with my daughter she was, you know, her mels obviously notthey were happy with T from the beginning well not from wayo to 3 four months he was fine six months that's when he developed it um and then um it got a lot worse when he had swine flu at the age of 16 so that infection He never fully recovered his health. to what she was before the swine flu, she was sick for six weeks and then she just didn't get any worse, you know, it was more like an Emmy type movie and then when she got chickenpox as an adult when she was like 19 and she was very sick and again she just didn't come back, her general health got worse and worse, you know, um and um, it was really the crisis that made us realize exactly what it was and come to the diagnosis that then we could really help her properlyum and uh , yes, and when we did their diox days for example, the normal Diamond oxidase is 30 to 200, the labs will say that you are unlikely to have histamine intolerance if it is over 10, but I don't agree with that , I think that if normal is 30 to 200 then anything below 30 is not enough and with my daughter, for example, when we took her Diamond oxidase in her crisis, it was undetectable as quickly as her body produced it, it disappeared, so it was undetectable and when we did it six months later it was 23.5, so if she had been 23.5, someone would say that you don't have maral activation syndrome or histamine intolerance, which she does, but we get to that level by working very hard to not have histamine foods at all. and as you know, he takes antihistamines and everything else, um and he managed to get it up to 23.5, but that's still not normal when people have skin manifestations, it's usually the same patch of skin on the same part of the body that you see affected every time. or they may have manifestations in different parts of the body, it may be that they always have a particular patch or a particular place, presumably there are a few more M cells there than anywhere else, maybe I don't know, but sometimes it may just be honest. it's almost like anything goes, sometimes it can be different patches, different areas and they can't really understand why it suddenly appears here, whether it was before it was there, um, so it's not easy to fully understand, you understand, you know exactly what is happening.

But you know, a lot of people, if judged clinically under what we call consensus, will tell you that you don't have M activation syndrome, there's nothing we can do for you, and I actually think that's a bit much. hard and that we should continue. I'm more in line with the consensus that you don't actually need to have a blood test to prove that you have mcass, you just need the clinical picture and then it's reasonable if you have reasonable suspicion to think that they have enough to try some of the medications and, um, simple measures that we put in place to try a treatment trial if you want and if they respond well, then I want to, I want to continue.

We'll get to the consensus in a little more detail in a minute, but, if we can talk about there are a lot of people watching now who are thinking, oh, just a minute, obviously, if you suspect this, go to your own healthcare provider and ask them. that and ordering these tests, that's quite reasonable, but in terms of treatment principles, can we just outline what treatments are available in terms of diet? Is it just a matter of determining what is good and what is bad for you or is it the usual food leaflets that cause problems quite regularly, yes there is a very good website called whatthebleep can I eat.com which is a great name and if you go in there you can add histamine to get a list of histamine free foods that have no histamine at all and low histamine foods and that comes to about 200 so it is very possible to have a varied and healthy diet from of these 200, so you are having a low histamine diet and there are certain things that are very high in histamine that you should avoid as much as possible, so things like tomatoes, avocados, spinach, bananas, many of things that are very convenient to eat and people eat a lot of them and you would normally consider them to be healthy and in fact they are. for most people, but for about 20% of the population, they will cause a problem and I think it's good advice to take a look at the list and see where you are, so gluten is very high in histamine, green tea and coffee.

The alcohol in tea and chocolate are a double whammy because they are high in histamine and they also block diamine oxidase production so you don't really want to take them and I think also processed foods are high in histamine , no wonder and the leftovers. anything that has been reheated or has been sitting out for a while when bacteria will grow on the surface of the food, even if it is a low histamine food, the bacteria will be in it and convert histadine to histamine, thus making it a food high in histamine. That's exactly why it was what happened with minced meat, so lamb does not have a high level of histamine, but minced meat does because it has a large surface area with a lot of bacteria, so when he put that in his mouth, he suddenly became gave even more.

M cells just make perfect sense and some people become symptomatic. Do they have asthma attacks even if it is a low-histamine food to which they happen to be particularly sensitive or allergic? Yes, it all depends. I think where they are in their histamine bucket that people talk about. a bucket of histamine, so if they've been really good with their diet and haven't been around chemicals that have stimulated histamine and the histamine levels are very low, they'll probably get away with eating something that has a little more histamine. because if you imagine you know if it has to be above a certain threshold to cause symptoms and they're very low and then you eat it, it just goes up a little bit but they're still not high enough to cause symptoms, whereas if they're falling apart just below threshold and they even have a little bit of something that is histamine, which goes up, so sometimes they can eat that food and get away with it and other times they won't be able to because of where they are. with his cube, you see, that can confuse people, they may think I could eat that yesterday and it's not understandable, so the dietary modifications, um vitamin C and other vitamins, it's vitamin D, a factor actually, yeah, right before that D, you can take it. diamine oxidase, you take it well, yes, and that is yes, there are Dao supplements and it is very useful for most people to take them before any meal because it will help them to know their deficiency, so you can buy capsules and tablets of Dao there. different in the market, that, you know, a couple of those 5 10 minutes before the meal that can also be very useful and the peas, people can grow peas on their windowsills and have eight or nine little peas, shho um, lovely, you know, leaves before they eat their food 10 minutes before they eat and that will have a reasonable amount of diamond oxidase so they can do it, so that's the kind of basic thing, the other thing is that probably be a very good idea for them to have a ketogenic Paleo. certainly a ketogenic diet so they're not consuming too many carbs, but they have what we call an anti-inflammatory diet, so it helps their bodies that way and then we move on to what do we do?

Do it for them, so with supplements vitamin C is incredibly helpful because it has antibiotic type properties, it's an antihistamine and it's a little bit anti-inflammatory so it's really good for them to have a natural antihistamine. um in the form of vitamin C so slow release vitamin C is a good idea otherwise you have to drink it throughout the day and then vitamin D is also very important and with a little bit of K2 um and then several uh , we usually like to give them questions. They ask them to take magnesium, so these are things to support the mitochondria because they have mitochondrial dysfunction and therefore energy, their energy production is not very good and the mitochondria are a fascinating little organelle, they are absolutely incredible, already You know, there are often thousands in each cell. they are producing ATP they, uh, they actually produce we actually produce 70 to 80 kilograms of ATP, we all know we really aren't, that must be cycling at an incredible rate exactly as soon as it is produced, the energy currency disappears . of the cell, yes, but there is such a huge demand that we have to produce between 70 and 80 kilograms per day just to stay alive.

Isn't it so fascinating if we apparently took out all of our mitochondria and put them in a pile? It would be 32% of our body weight. I had no idea, yes, very interesting, and our heart has the most and our heart, I would have known, I think because of the and the liver, of course, I lose a lot. energy absolutely, so mitochondrial function is super important and you know, when patients who see me say they have post-exertion mala and they do something and then they completely cleanse it's because their mitochondria are just not up to the task at hand. a little bit, they're dysfunctional, you know, because of everything that's going on with high histamine, etc., and these other types of quotes that we don't understand.

I get that all the time, people say I'm fine, but I get disproportionately tight after a small amount of exercise and that varies from time to time, yeah, and we think it's all connected to mitochondria, etc., so You have to support the mitochondria and that is the body's energy production system that needs to be working at full speed, so we give them vitamin C, vitamin D, magnesium, K2, then coenzyme Q10, we understood that that is really good for you, it's basically a nutrient, right? a little bit too, so you don't want to interfere with the production of coenzyme Q10, that's very important, and then lartin, which is an amine that is useful for the mitochondria and iodine, it's very, very important to have iodine now, iodine , most of us are.

We have insufficient iodine in general in our diets and in ourselves and it's very important for a number of reasons, very important for all of our glands, so for the thyroid, the prostate, everyone knows the thyroid, but why do these other glands need it? Yeah, well, I'm not really sure to be honest, but we, yeah, they need it now, whether it's because the mitochondria need iodine. I'm not sure, but iodine is a terribly important thing and we like patients. take iodine and we asked them to take two or three drops of 15% iodine lals in some water before going to bed and that also helps ensure that the upper intestine is sterile because our upper intestine should be St .Does it really do it?

I disinfect the upper part of the intestine, I never thought it makes much sense because it kills everything it does, yeah, you take two drops of water, that's probably what four milligrams is, something like iodine, yeah, it's a small amount, yes, but but much higher than the recommended guidelines, yes, probably, but it is necessary and if you don't need it, if you live in Japan or South Korea or like seaweed, you will get much more than that from your natural diet. anyway, it's just that in the UK we don't eat much seaweed and fish contains surprisingly little iodine.

It is the algae that we really need to eat more algae, yes, but as you say, if they have that in their diet and it does not help them. any harm from taking two drops at night in water will be absolutely safe and fine and a lot of the inflammation comes from the gut. You know, we have so many Mar cells in our gut when they start to go haywire, then we really have problems and then it spreads to other areas, so we really have to spend a lot of time trying to fix the gut. I've been talking to Professor Dow gich oncologist lately, yes, and he was saying You probably can't say it all, but in so many cancers, chronic inflammation is a major causal factor and that chronic inflammation can come from bacterial breakdown products of the intestine that They cause chronic inflammation in different parts of the body.

I know most of it is broken. it goes down when it passes through the liver, of course, but maybe not all, and that's a plausible mechanism because I've talked to other doctors who believe and have good evidence to say that regular iodine can reduce some types of cancer. that that fits, it doesn't surprise me, yeah, it doesn't surprise me because we also think that there are theories that don't exist about mitochondrial health and if you have mitochondrial dysfunction, then you're more likely to have cancer cells with M, you know, cancerous. the cells will have mitochondrial dysfunction, so there is a whole node, it's a really complex picture, but in my simple mind, I like to think of it as if we have inflammation in the gut, then we're in trouble because you have leaky gut.

You know? I didn't know well, so intestinal inflammation can cause leaky gut, which means that proteins instead of amino acids can enter the circulation exactly exactly, so it's a perfect storm, so the lining of the intestine is just a cell. thick and if you havedo that and it's very interesting so when I used to teach anaphylaxis I used to teach all the intravenous therapy and of course the anaphylaxis lesson was standard and it always said, within the first hour or two of an anaphylactic reaction, make sure you get one blood cell for mass cell journey oh yeah so I think we better talk about mass cell journey and consensus and consensus guidelines two yeah yeah so in 2012 a statement was made U and it was called a consensus statement and it was put together by some of the people who have been working in this field and in that statement they said that serum tryptose needed to be elevated to diagnose M cell activation, so this is basically the guts , an enzyme that is released from the dough. cells absolutely yes and they said that it was necessary to raise it to prove that someone has mcass or they are diagnosed with mcass um and they presented it as a consensus statement and that Pro, meanwhile, a year before, about 40 of the uh of of the researchers and doctors who work in this field who had made a broader definition because, based on what they were seeing in patients, they said they weren't as prescriptive with their consensus statement, so they called the consensus statement consensus statement one and your consensus statement two to differentiate between the two and in consensus statement two you say that because in some parts of the world it is difficult to perform laboratory tests to help with diagnosis and that certainly was This is the case until very recently in the UK and because serum tryptase can often be normal in patients with typical symptoms, patterns and history of M cell activation, it is not useful to rely on serum Tas trip, so in this group this subgroup, if you want, you know and I think both statements probably have their place and are helpful, but the first consensus statement excludes many people with this condition who then go undiagnosed and do not receive treatment or help. whereas the other consensus statement is also more encompassing, so it actually helps more with the diagnosis, really a clinical picture diagnosis, yes, it is absolutely, it is a clinical diagnosis and you recognize the patterns and you see it and then you say we suspect Let's try a treatment and see how we go and learn, look, they improve.

I think that's the diagnostic feature, then, isn't it? It's the fact that the particular treatment that you would expect to treat Massel activation syndrome does and that really does. it helps your diagnosis if you have pain in your finger and there's a splinter there and you pulled the splinter out and the pain goes away it's a good indication that the splinter was causing the pain so yes absolutely and and in the consensus statement one no seems to recognize how common Mel Activation Syndrome is and, uh, while Professor Mom is rotting from Bon he um, he's done the research there and it's 17 to 20% of the population, so that would fit with what we see, you know, with your real world experience, clinical experience that would adjust to different levels of severity, although presumably yes, it will totally depend on what combination of genetic variations they have, and you know, some poor people are just sensitive to everything, they can't even take vitamins and minerals.

You know, there may be an excipient in a medication or in a supplement that they can't tolerate and they will have a severe, serious reaction, like an anaphylactic type reaction. something that some people could be so bad, and I have many patients who have been very, very seriously ill, but they are much better now, we have managed to calm things down very slowly, very patiently, and there are certain things. like low doses of nxone which can be really amazing, very small doses of LDN, they seem very, very anti-inflammatory and can transform people's lives. It doesn't work on everyone, but when it does, it's actually very compelling, you know? amazing things um I'm also using a lot now of um microtherapy medicinal mushrooms are very immune regulators and can calm us down so there are some yeah we've had very very good results with those with patients.

I want to continue. Well, there are many things I would like to talk about, it depends on how long you want to be with us. Can I give you a little challenge? How can massive cells degranulate and not release guts? I'm not sure. Are guts metabolized more quickly in some people? I don't know how quickly tryptase is metabolized, but I do know that many of the cytotypes are released in very small amounts that possibly wouldn't be very detectable and are metabolized. they move away very quickly, so they are kind of hit, they get hit a little bit and run away, you know they are there, they create havoc and chaos and then they are gone, but the chaos remains.

I'm sure we all know people like that so yeah, I probably have no idea they're doing it and so it's actually very, very difficult and I don't think tryptase is. I think if you have different genetics, it's reasonable to postulate that some people are fast gut metabolizers and others are slow. gut metabolizers and also that some people don't release guts, you know, and in

mast

ocytosis, which is quite different,

mast

ocytosis is very rare and it's a neoplasm of the cells en masse, okay, it's genetic, it can be cutaneous with skin lesions. be systemic when they have systemic symptoms the symptoms are exactly like cell activation syndrome m m because it is the same but in mastocytosis there is an excess of abnormal mass cells and there are so many that they release guts and their guts will be elevated but very elevated, so You know, I have some patients who have master cytosis.

I have two and they respond incredibly well to the same treatment that mcast patients do, so they go see the immunologist who examines their skin. and he does a thorough job on all of that and he's great at keeping an eye on that, but they come to me for type one antihistamine, type two antihistamine, maybe some LDN, etc., and there are a lot of them. better actually it's pretty pretty impressive um um I think we'll probably leave that there for today too now there's so many things I want to ask you about but we're already at an hour and seven minutes so um maybe just tell him Tell us a little bit about microtherapy.

I'm very curious to know what mushrooms you are using. Well, first you have to use very good quality mushrooms, and the mushrooms themselves are very rich in histamine, but there are various chemicals inside. mushrooms that can also be extracted without providing a hint of histamine and, particularly, the sun mushroom is a massive cell stabilizer and reduces histamine and cyto. Rel is familiar with edible mushrooms, it's just that yeah, I mean, there are hundreds and hundreds. There are thousands of different mushrooms, don't go picking mushrooms in the wild, just get them from an expert, we don't want anyone to die from mushroom poisoning after watching this video, no way, and then the other one that I like to use, like this that I use a company, I am the name of the company, yes, okay, until it is a Spanish company, I really like them, they have been in business for 25 years, everything is organic, everything is tested, there are no fillers, it is absolutely pure, ya you know, active ingredient and they test each batch. before you let them go to a forum to make sure they don't have any pesticides or insecticides in the soil they have been growing them in, they grow their own and also do research on patient groups to prove it does what they do. they say it can do it, so there's a lot of clinical data behind all the claims, so I like to have patients use one called mosol, which is the sun mushroom, but mco5 and M5 contain five different mushrooms, so you get a very good offer. with that you get the sun mushroom you get the RI mushroom and the ri mushroom um what does that do?

Balan hormone reduces anxiety levels, right? Yes, it absolutely helps you feel relaxed, a little more relaxed, helps you get better. sleep also has anti-inflammatory properties and it has analgesic properties um and then there is um Shaga is there and Shaga helps cancer cells go into apoptosis basically I always describe suicide absolutely cell suicide is pressured by suar if the cells are abnormal um So that it has been used now in some studies to help as an adjunct in cancer treatments and then there are two shitake matake and I don't remember which one of them, but one of them, it treats most of the toxins, so if anyone has been exposed to um even like CH as a kid to mold, you're probably still going to have a lot of toxins in your body and taking the M5 can really help eliminate that, so it's really and people can feel it.

John, honestly, they take it and sometimes even after 10 days. two weeks, sometimes six weeks, but most people say I feel more balanced. I can feel that my body is not that reactive, so I prefer to use natural things if possible and things that people can get on their own and don't rely on recipes. and so on to see if we can balance them out and I find that if people take them then they often don't need to take some of the other things that they were taking, they know some of the other medications and there's no question that that various types of microtherapy, various mushrooms, I mean there are so many amazing functional properties of so many different mushrooms, this is going to be a huge thing in the future, the problem is of course that you can't patent mushrooms that big farmers aren't.

Unfortunately, we're doing a lot of research, but what we really need is for a lot more people to start growing mushrooms because they're very good for you anyway, the various nutrients in the microbiome and I think we talked briefly about Lion's. Main mushroom, uh, which the Chinese call the monkey head mushroom because it's like, um, it has something like that, like Shaggy, like a lion's man, and um, yeah, that has properties that cross the blood-brain barrier and there are chemicals that stimulate the nerves. cytotype growth, it's really quite incredible and then of course there's all the crazy Professor David thinking about um cocy and other things so they have um and I.

I've talked to psychiatrists who are starting to actually use psilocybin, so there's a whole new field of medicine coming up, but it would really be great if more people grew mushrooms locally. I've been trying to encourage some people locally to start growing them and, you know, the legal ones of course. No, I wouldn't dream of telling anyone to grow class A drugs, but, eh, there's more to that story. I'm sure Tina was just fascinating. My mind is washed with information here. I'm sure she's going to There are many patients who recognize these symptoms in themselves, so if you recognize them, take note of your symptoms.

Keep a diary of your symptoms. When they are good. When they are bad. Fluctuations arise with this type of pattern. then when you go to your doctor, which you should of course do, you have a lot of things ready to tell them and if they are prepared to give you the time, then they can do this, potentially make this diagnosis and get started. try these things that would confirm the diagnosis and, um, there are so many people who are just sick most of the time, uh, I'm not, I'm not entirely satisfied with how I feel most of the time to tell you the truth, I you know, well, you just know that sometimes you're anxious and sometimes your brain isn't quite with it and, uh, you know, it's just thinking that you know you know, I mean, a lot of his lifestyle with me, of course, but the same with a lot of people, but you know, if these specific pathologies could be treated, it's um, yeah, absolutely wonderful, yeah, thank you, so another time, what I'd like to talk about, this is just a preview, if you decide I would like to do it at some point.

One thing that really stood out to me is the importance of taking the patient's history. I'm not going to want to talk about that now because we're out of time. and this whole philosophy of natural therapies is very interesting and the way forward, you know, a lot of the medications that we have at the moment, my British national formula is my last book there, but I have a big red one there um it's it's um it's very, very often medications that have gone through the clinical trial process that have often been sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry.

There I'll go, we need two hands, this one so all the drugs you can prescribe are there, but these ones are and of course a lot of these drugs are absolutely wonderful and brilliant and they save lives, but it feels like there's a lot of them. more things like this Lion Man Lion Man um that can be so beneficial that I don't I don't have easy access to them and it seems like a shame that there's all these kind of therapeutic lifestyles that we're not using right now, so there's a field. completely new if people are interested, John, in knowing more about Mar.

Activation Syndrome the big names are Dr. Lawrence afren um who is in New York um then um Dr. Dempsey um she is um she is very big she works with him um Professor Molderings at Bon University and uh Winestock Dr. Weinstock have produced many articles and and uh, case studies and research on it um and um, I'm very, very fortunate becausewe have a group where we exchange ideas and questions and new bits of science all the time and literally twice a day I get an email from This group is an international group and it's getting bigger and bigger as more and more doctors , doctors, nurses, dieticians, you know, they know it and then they apply it to their patients and they see the successes and the improvements, and uh and.

So you know, you want to know more, it's a really great group, but Dr. Lawrence Afron has some really good presentations on YouTube. If you can send us some links, Tina, we'll just put, yeah, whatever links you send, we'll paste them. Of course, yes, yes, okay, great, wonderful, thank you very much for that, it's so interesting and we can certainly talk about doing other things if you want, it was really brilliant, thank you very much, it's a pleasure.