'UK will be dealt with’: How China will retaliate if designated a threat | Gao vs Ricketts

if you label China a

threat

, you

will

be reciprocally labeled a

threat

if you want to impose sanctions against China China

will

impose sanctions against Britain, reports in the Times this morning indicate that some ministers, including security minister Tom Tugen Hut, want formally designate the entire Chinese government as a state threat other ministers prefer to target only certain departments the newspaper also says business secretary kmy Bok warns that declaring China a state threat risks retaliation from China that could cause an economic blow. I think we have to risk an economic hit to punish sin China's cyber attacks in a moment we will speak to Lord Rickets Peter Rickets First National Security Adviser to the UK Government, but first, for a China perspective, let's listen to Vikor GA, vice president of the Center for China and Globalization based in Beijing, good morning to you, Victor, thank you very much for inviting me, it is a great pleasure.

Why has China attacked UK democracy? Why has China undertaken this attempt to hack the electoral register and pursue private details of British citizens in the first place, I would say that such an accusation is completely unfounded. China has no interest in attacking the democratic system in the UK and the UK system is completely different from China from the Chinese perspective. The UK is neither a menace nor a threat. Enemy, not an adversary, not a competitor, the United Kingdom is simply a very important country that must be collaborated with for mutual benefit, therefore, I hope that such accusation will be proven to be unfounded and wrong and that the British side must present firm evidence to support your claim, if any, to substantiate it it's really not just Britain it's actually not just Britain it's actually the United States also Britain and the United States together today have accused China of Los Angeles China of launching a prolific global campaign of cyber attacks New Zealand has accused China of doing the same thing, or it believes that these three states are lying and I'm interested in thinking why they would lie about this or there is reason to suggest that China is involved in a prolific and very widespread hacking into databases. from other countries, if they really believe the accusations of hostility against China by the United States, then as a member of the United States Congress, they suggested that they even see a threat in Chinese garlic exported to the United States and want to label it as a threat to US National Security, they have persisted in claims against Huawei and Huawei has proven time and time again that it is an excellent outstanding technology company, is not involved in National Security and therefore, It is really necessary to take Washington's accusations with a huh.

It's like you have a bit of salt in your mouth instead of taking it at face value, but you don't, what about the UK? So, Oliver D., the Deputy Prime Minister has said that there is a problem with China. There are strong arguments that China should be considered a country. threat to our nation not because they are concerned about imports and exports because they think China is aggressively attacking British institutions, including the electoral register, they did not, as a claim and amazement, they said no, no, no, we. We have seen that we have established that our security services have established that China is attacking British institutions in the first place.

If you accuse China of attacking the UK, then you must ask, as very pragmatic British people, what does China threaten the UK: Does China threaten the constitutional monarchy in the UK? All parliamentary democracy. All votes, for example, at all levels. All sovereignty and territorial integrity of Great Britain. No, if anyone can come up with any real backed up accusations about such a threat from China I will be very happy to debate him or her face to face nothing can be proven and China believes that Britain is far away on the other side of the Eurasian continent on an island and we are very far from each other we need to get along with each other instead of threatening each other, but they feel the mutual threat as enemies of each other.

What if Britain designates China as a threat, nothing would be a free lunch? If you want to designate a major country as a threat, you yourself will be treated as a threat, this is reciprocity and reciprocity is the fundamental principle in diplomacy of all kinds at all levels. I want to see Britain as a normal country, a constructive country as far as possible. as far as China is concerned and I don't want China to be labeled as a threat to the UK, tell us about someone if you have any accusations, present evidence, tell us about what reciprocity would look like because it is clearly possible that China is going to You can call it a threat, there are certainly many people in the cabinet who want to do it, let's say that happens, what kind of reciprocal action will China take?

Will it be on commercial terms? What other means does China have to reciprocate that kind of move by the British? government, it is up to the Chinese government to make that decision, however, I can say that if you label China as a threat, you will be reciprocally labeled as a threat if you want to impose sanctions against China, China will impose sanctions against Britain, China will. Don't take the initiative to do stupid things like that, but if such misguided and unguided things are done in London, don't think that you will be completely immune to the repercussions and if anyone knows the ABCs of diplomacy, you should know that there will be reciprocity if you make a decision. is made in London against an important country in the world, well, you made that point very clearly, Victor gal, thank you for joining us today, thank you very much for inviting me, that is Victor G, vice president of the Beijing Bas Center for China and Globalization , who Really because he gives what amounts to the Chinese perspective on U on what is happening in this situation and let's talk to Lord Rickets now Peter Rickets, first national security adviser to the UK government, good morning Lord Rickets, can you hear me?

Oh, we seem. having missed it, hopefully, you heard all that, yeah, it'll be interesting to hear what he has to say, so he was the first national security advisor to the UK government, and what's happening here is that China is going to be declared a threat to national security. Security initially Victor GA didn't seem that bothered and then it ramped up a lot towards the end, well if you do that we will do that too because I think China's diplomatic position is that we are miles bigger than Britain and it doesn't matter how it started, No?

But you can always deny everything because, as far as we can establish, the British State, the American State and the New Zealand State have said that according to their security services, this has happened now, you still can, there is still room for China to say which we don't believe happened, but all of this has a consequence, of course, okay, now we can talk to Lord Rickets. Peter Rick is the UK government's first national security adviser, uh, okay. Good morning Good Morning. I think you managed to hear most of what Victor GA had to say. I'm sure you've heard this kind of thing before, but do you think he, I mean, is talking in any way?

He reflects what you think the Chinese government might be thinking that if you know you are, you are not, there is no such thing as a free lunch, if you designate us as a threat, we will do the same to you if you impose sanctions we will also impose sanctions do you think that is that likely? I think he is a very close spokesperson for what the Chinese government thinks. Yes, he is a fluent and articulate spokesperson for them and of course it is easy to say that he presents the evidence behind it. Militia cyber activity.

It is always difficult to present evidence, but it took two years for the National Cyber ​​Security Center to attribute this hack of the Election Commission to China. I have complete confidence that they made good judgment there, and clearly they did. I don't know what the Chinese government would actually do except threaten reciprocity broadly, you know, try to somehow intimidate us and dissuade us from taking action, whatever action the UK government deems necessary. This has always been a very delicate equation. balancing act on one hand you have national security concerns and on the other hand you have this £93bn trade relationship.

I think it's worth trade between China and the UK. Do you think this can just keep running these two threads simultaneously or collide at some point. I mean, they could collide at some point. Yesterday I was surprised to hear Oliver D's statement that he was trying to walk a very difficult line between the seriousness of what the UK government discovered was this hostile malicious activity, but he also assured everyone that in reality the hack did not compromise its data significantly, it would not affect the electoral process, that the attack on the parliamentarians had been intercepted, had not been effective, and then Also, um, the very minor action that the government proposed to take to sanction through individuals, for which there seemed to be a disconnect between the severity of the problem and the action the government was taking and I guess therefore if the pressure grows more than that then we will do it.

Coming to this question of designating China as a hostile state, I have to say that I don't know what operational consequences that would have. I'm using one word instead of another, but that also caught our attention yesterday because, as you know, the government is putting a lot of pressure on Oliver Dowen has talked about it in the House of Commons at first glance, this is information, I mean, It's strange that they want this information, but this is information that is available to some people and then you. You're right, there is a gap between what happened in this particular case and what happened a while ago, um, and the different kind of escalation, the different language that is being used declares a threat to National Security, why Do you think this gap exists?

I think the government is in a very difficult situation because they want to point out the seriousness of what they have discovered and, on the other hand, they don't want to scare people into thinking that this means that millions of people have had their data compromised in some way. that could put their security at risk and when they take action against China, as you say, they must take into account the fact that the relationship with China is complex. Yes, we have to treat them as a potential security threat. areas, but we trade £100bn worth of them both ways each year, so trade sanctions would lead us straight to higher inflation, we would have to pay more for goods we get elsewhere and there is an amount massive Chinese investment. in the UK including new Giga battery factories etc so I'm not sure the government wants to take economic action against China given the need to find new ways to grow and reduce inflation and they can't just leave things as they are. designating China as a threat would be a gesture.

I don't think it has any particular operational consequences. One thing I think is important is that we work very closely, as we clearly are doing with the Americans and the Europeans who issued a statement. in solidarity with ourselves and others and denouncing what China is doing is probably the most effective response. In fact, I should have asked you this at the beginning. Do you think China is a threat to our national security? Well, like I said, I guess. China is such a huge country, such a massive and complex relationship with this U, reducing it to one word doesn't make much sense, yes they are a threat in some areas of security, they are trying to subvert our democratic process, yes they are a major threat . trading partner and yes, we have to talk to them about issues like climate change because we cannot reduce climate change without China joining that process, so there are several things at the same time, including a potential threat in some areas, okay, that's interesting, Mr. rickets. thank you peter rickets first national security adviser to the uk government that's why i think posting signs in this area is so difficult isn't it? because it's always yes, but isn't it?

I'm a little suspicious of this story because you are. I think they are picking a fight with China because they want to appear tough, but what does that really mean in practice if they are our fifth trading partner and there will always be parts we like and parts we don't like? and how to balance that really seems very difficult