Jordan Peterson: The radical Left is guilt-tripping the West into oblivion

totalitarian systems are ruled by some sort of top-down singular tyrant Hitler Stalin Lennon is like no, a totalitarian state is ruled by LIE hello and welcome to the script my name is Stephen Edgington how do you win the culture war? What lessons can we learn from? Soviet Dissidents I sat down with Dr. Jordan Peterson to discuss these questions and many more thanks Dr. Peterson for joining us. It is a pleasure for me to have lost the right to culture. War, we'll see, we'll see the right locks. Vision. They play in the rearguard. In the game, they don't have a compelling story to tell young people and because they are conscientious, conservatives are conscientious, it's easy to blame them and the psychopathic narcissists of the

radical

left

are incredibly good at it, so the conservative guys are very backwards and they don't know how to articulate their own principles partly because, if you're conservative, you don't really articulate your principles, you just mind your business, you think straight. we'll just do things the way they've been done if they're working and we'll go about our business and we won't think too much conceptually and we'll know how to act practically, so if you're going to listen to the Republicans, for example, I went to the governors association meeting Republicans and it was not inspiring, but the governors presented their policies at a level of practical intervention, they are very practical people and that is fine, except that it does not work well against the messianism of the

left

, so the conservatives are in a position in which they are just dragged to the left step by step and are also terrible strategists, so, for example, in the United States, the education system eats up the public education system.

Half of the state budget in New York is thirty thousand dollars a year to educate the typical student, so imagine that means they are spending close to a million dollars a year to educate the typical class of 30 people and not educate the typical loss of 30. people, is beyond comprehension 99 of the donations the teachers union makes go politically to the Democrats and the damn Department of Education, colleges of education have a hammer lock on teacher certification , so you have the worst students coming into education for the worst reasons and then you have the worst professors and researchers teaching them and the Colleges of Education have done nothing but harm for the last 60 years and the Republicans are too dumb to notice Realize that they have handed over all culture to the faculties of Education, so it is not surprising that the conservatives lose their tenth rank as strategists and are not visionaries, now they have the traditional right on their side and that is a big problem, but you know that it can be overthrown by assiduous effort on the part of the

radical

s. and especially psychopathic radicals, they thrive on chaos, so they are more than willing to turn over the entire Apple card in the hopes that they can search through the runes and dance in the flames.

The question is how to fight. against this authoritarianism that I'm curious to talk about for the next hour or so, maybe we'll see more time, but recently an issue has been debanking, so in Canada a couple of years ago, during the truckers protest, you saw to truckers whose bank accounts were closed, they were eliminated they were pioneers in that here absolutely fine, I think the Chinese were probably pioneers, it could be the Canadians, at least among the democratic countries, exactly and in the UK recently Nigel Farage has had problems with certain banks refusing to offer services to other politicians on the right has had the same thing and the conservatives have said in the UK, you know, they are warning people who are celebrating this, this could happen to you, those are the Useful idiots, useful idiots always think this will never happen to me, see? this in Dead with the Democrats in the USA, so I just interviewed Robert F.

Kennedy, a young man who is basically a Democrat, so they canceled the interview and that surprised me because it is a presidential campaign and the leftists were squawking , they moaned and complained for like three years about Russian collusion, all of which turned out to be a complete, bloody lie because they were interfering with the election and now YouTube can censor a presidential candidate in the middle of the election and there isn't a peep of the left and the reason for that. Do you think Kennedy isn't a true Democrat without realizing for a second that the definition of a true Democrat is going to get narrower and narrower as we go along and that's already happened, you know?

I tried for years talking to Democrats, probably three dozen senators, and congressmen alike always ask them the same question. I did this to Robert Kennedy too. When does the left go too far? And a man or a woman did not want or could not answer that question and so it is, here we are with this increase in normalization. of censorship and counseling and that, by the way, this is also a technique that dark tetrad types use, right, it is the female equivalent of antisocial behavior, so men who are antisocial tend to use physical aggression, but women who are antisocial.

They tend to use reputation-destroying gossip and denigration and behind-the-scenes maneuvering and that's amazing, now men can and will do that too, especially online, but that's allowed by the corporations, you know, the media corporations that They have control of communication on social networks. So yeah, people think well, as long as it's only happening to Kennedy, it's like they do it their way, morons, now this culture or so-called culture has been going on for a long time, it's quite a long time, you it's been at the center for years and years and years and you've really experienced terrible abuse and uh and I really don't know how you got through, you know, you went through all that and you came out where you are today when you look back at the Soviet Union, other regimes Authoritarian, obviously.

There was a certain distance within those regimes and I want to talk about them and how they faced some of the most terrible experiences now, obviously, you're not, you're not in a gulag, you're not, you're not in Auschwitz, so you know there's a Kind of a different level, but what do you do when you know things aren't going to get better? So let's say you are a Soviet dissident and there is simply no hope of survival. Do you fight? What do you do in that situation? Well, everything you do in life is a matter of faith and why would I say you know the atheist materialist types that the skeptics will say?

Well, faith just means that you believe in things that don't exist. that's not what it means, it's a critique of a 13 year old's religious beliefs and why a critique of an intelligent 13 year old's religious beliefs means you're staking your fate on a set of propositions, now the The point is that you do stake your destiny on some set of propositions because you have to act despite your ultimate ignorance, so in the final analysis you have to advance in ignorance and you advance in ignorance assuming the usefulness of a stable set of principles. or and there may be alternatives or wavering, here is a principle that says what you need to save your skin right now or to gain advantage and that means you have faith in the power of deception, it means you have faith in the power of LIE , TRUE? very well we know who is the Eternal ruler of the kingdom of LIE or you can have faith in the truth and that means having faith in the truth means that you act according to the assumption that whatever happens if you tell the truth is by definition, the best thing that could happen and that means that regardless of the short-term consequences for you, now you're stuck with it anyway because if you decide to lie, you're assuming you'll get away with it or get an undeserved benefit.

The advantage will pay off in the long run all things considered and you have no evidence of it. You know when everyone knows this you can do something stupid to get out of a tight spot and get away with it, but the chickens come home to roost and Virtually everyone knows it, so you're going to show faith in one strategy or another. Or you're going to lie sometimes and tell the truth other times and I wouldn't recommend it at all because all it does is make you a confused person. so you're playing both ends against the middle when Christ comes back in the Book of Revelation, he says the worst form of hell is reserved for people who play both ends against the middle and who sit on the fence, so okay worth knowing.

If you are wise and have some common sense and a certain degree of courage, then you say what you have to say and let the devil get the last word, and that's what you do. If you're a dissident, you make your damn decision and I've seen this. I just spoke to Douglas Murray about this this week. You know this because Murray is notable for his courage and brave people are actually quite rare, much rarer than he thought, although he knew they were rare. He didn't know it. We're as weird as they are, but Murray speaks his mind and to help with the consequences, so to speak, but he was also convinced that there's no better way forward than to speak his mind and we separate it to a certain extent, I mean. first of all if you say what you think what is happening to you is what is happening to you if you engage in a lie that is not you only God knows what it is and what you are serving so if you lie to get your way it is not your La The way you understand it is the way of lying and if you think it's a good idea, try it and then think carefully about what your evidence is.

It is a good idea. Have you ever lied to yourself and made it work? What if you lie to your intimate? partner, you think that's going to work or your family members or you lie to your business partners or your clients, that's going to work, you're the one who thinks no one thinks people will still do it and they'll pretend it's okay, but not. Does anyone with an Iota sense ever think that no one tells their child, well, you know, son, the best way to move forward in every situation is to simply find out what the other person wants to hear from you and tell them, and if you can lie to get it.

To get out of a jam, well, what the hell could you do? Because that's what sensible people do. Nobody says you know people could act like that, but nobody believes it and it's a matter of belief, so if you're a dissident. you say what you think and think and I think you know I could have a false reality on my side or I could have the closest approximation to the truth that I can get, yes I will choose the strongest thank you very much and if that means I have to face to my idiotic governments like I'm much more afraid of LIE than Trudeau, but just looking back through history, at some of those dissidents in the Soviet Union, for example, and one of those people that you very I think Among many young people with children he promotes a lot and it has made him much better known, and then you know his famous book The Gulag Archipelago and everything else.

Why do you think so few people in the West know about these dissidents in the Soviet Union? Well, because our education system in the West has been trapped in the illusion, since World War II, that authoritarianism was a purely right-wing phenomenon, which of course is calling that an illusion. You know there was Stalin, there was Lenin, there was Mao, there was Paul Potts. I mean, how many fucking examples do you need? Obviously there is left authoritarianism, but the left's game is that good, that doesn't really exist or it was a misapplication of a perfectly functional theory.

I asked a friend of mine. A Jewish guy why so many Jews in the Soviet Union were attracted to communism and he said because it offered the possibility of universal brotherhood, you know, and that's the difference between, say, fascism and its more explicit forms and the communism, is that communism at least says that we could all be brothers, right, and that is an attractive Doctrine and I suppose that at the time of the Russian Revolution it was not evident that that idea was doomed to failure, now it is very evident now , if the evidence means anything to you. but there is that attraction in the communist doctrine of equality, which is something like what we want in our families and then the Universal Brotherhood, which is a dream of paradise.

I suppose, of course, in the bowels of the communist conceptual structure there are policies that are absolutely 100 percent. murderously counterproductive, but they also sound good, from each according to his ability to each according to his need, you know, it sounds heavenly, it means that well, everyone could have their needs met, of course, you instantly get entangled in what a need is and of course who is the need. considered Supreme and that's complete hell and then, well, who defines capacity and how do you know when someone is contributing to the limits of their capacity because they can still stand up, so you know there are these shiny, catchy slogans out there the way they are derived? from two Welsh words slewag and garam and that means Cry ofbattle of the dead, so these slogans attract people who know nothing, who are thoughtless and who are motivated to some extent by their compassion in the case of, say, useful idiots and then motivated by the desire to use compassion as camouflage by the more psychopathic types, but it sounds good and the left can claim that you know it was a very good idea and look at all the terrible things that capitalism does and capitalism concentrates power and wealth. in the hands of fewer and fewer people, which happens, but so do all other economic systems. never invented or discovered, so it is not attributable to capitalism and that, combined with this promise of universal brotherhood and the desire of the radical leftists to overthrow the capitalist effort, means that faculties of education produce teachers who know nothing about what really happened in the 20th century because they know nothing about anything at all and even if they did, they would be inclined to downplay or excuse it. with, you know, waving the hand, that wasn't real communism, so let's focus on us.

We have dissonance on the one hand, who are very, very rare in the system, but what about the majority of the population? Let's focus on them for a moment, particularly the Soviet Union, perhaps one can also talk about other authoritarian regimes of the 20th century. But how did the majority of the population react to Soviet propaganda, Maoist propaganda, Nazi propaganda and what was the objective of that propaganda? They formulated it, propagated it, lived it and distributed it as if it were a misunderstanding, we like to think that totalitarian systems are governed by a kind of singular tyrant from the top down Hitler Stalin Lenin is like no, a totalitarian state is governed by LIES and LIES are the principle of government and all those who lie are complicit in the maintenance of the state and, therefore, you know, the Soviet one.

Jokingly, we pretend to work, they pretend to pay us, so a totalitarian state is not the freedom-loving masses yearning for liberation from the desert, but those oppressed by Stalin's thumb, it is every person who lies to themselves about absolutely everything and everyone who loves 100 of the time and sometimes that lie is just silence, so I have been looking at the Book of Jonah. I'm going to open my new book with this chapter, so as far as we know, Jonah is just minding his own business and then there's a voice here, it's the voice of conscience because that's established right now in the Biblical Corpus. , it's the voice of conscience and it says you know that the city of Nineveh, which is actually a city of foreigners, by the way, and enemies of the Israelites, so it's not a city that Jonah would necessarily sympathize with the words or vice versa.

God says you know that city of Nineveh and Jonah says yes, yes, well, they've gone off the rails badly and I'm thinking about getting them out and so I want you to go there and tell them my intentions and their transgressions and Jonah thinks I don't give a damn. Like the people of Nineveh, they are enemies of Israel anyway and that is a city of like 120,000 people and why the hell would they listen to me? And if I go to Nineveh, well, that will be a very difficult trip and the probability of a sad ending for me is very, very high.

So what if not? So he gets on a boat and goes inside. in the opposite direction and, as any sensible person would do and as most people always do, it's fine, except now the storms come and the waves start to rise and the wind starts to blow and the ship is in danger to tip over and that's what happens. when you keep quiet when you've been told to say something and then the sailors who are quite superstitious think that there must be someone on this ship who is not liked by the gods they serve and then they start to leave Check the passenger list and asks everyone and Jonah admits that he had a direct commandment that he broke and that he is the culprit, so the sailors have to throw them overboard and they don't actually do this out of cruelty, they do it. out of necessity and so well now Jonah has escaped his conscience and put the ship in danger and now he's drowning and you think well that's bad enough because he's going to die, but that's not bad enough because the next thing What happens is a The creature of the abyss itself rises from the depths of reality and takes them and its jaws and takes them to hell and it is hell, it is down there for three days, as Christ has the right to hell and there are explicit references to background. of the ocean in the Book of Jonah, so this is not my imagination and so what does that mean?

If you stay silent when you have something to say, not only do you put everyone else on the ship in danger and you don't just end up in a place where you could die, but then something so terrible will happen to you that you'll wish death had taken you and now Jonah It's at the bottom of the ocean cooking because it didn't do it. say what they asked him to say and he repents and says okay you know I have learned my lesson now that I have been in Hell itself I will go to Nineveh as you order and so the whale comes up to the shore and spits them out and leaves and then he goes to Nineveh and tells them what he has to tell them and they actually repent, interestingly, and don't destroy it, maybe because at this point he has the courage of his conviction and God saves the city from destruction, well, that is what that story means, so you stay silent when you have something to say at your own risk and that's a sin of omission, right? and people are easy and willing to overlook it.

Do you know why I have to do it? stick your neck out is like hey man, part of the reason is that you're sticking your neck out no matter what you do people don't understand that huh but the most extraordinary thing is that there are some people who do tell the truth during these terrible races, well , you know, when the Lord and Abraham go to visit Sodom. Abraham bargains with God because God is going to take out Sodom and uh Abraham says because God says Oh, the whole city is corrupt and Abraham says well, you mean, what do you mean by everything? city ​​you mean everyone and God says yes practically and Abraham says well if there are 40 men there that are not corrupt you will spare the city God says yes okay and then Abraham says well how about 30 and God says are you pushing your luck? but yeah, and then he says 20 and finally negotiates with God down to 10.

Okay, and what that means is I think what it means is that if 10 people can still tell the truth, there's hope once you get below that. , if it's none, then you're in hell, right? and then you know that fire and brimstone will definitely rain down on your city. That's what comedians are, right? Comedians can tell the truth, and if not, there must be plenty of people who still can. raise your head above the parapet and say here's something funny and true, you know very few people so let's talk about some of those cases and I think they're really interesting shows and there's someone who I'm sure you know a lot.

Maybe you can talk about what inspired him and what happened to him, but he also took responsibility for his condition. You know, when he was in the gulag nitzen he had every reason to be a victim because the reason he was in the gulag was because of Hitler. and Stellan, so if you need someone to blame, those are two credible perpetrators, but Solzhenitzen wondered: he saw two things that he saw in the prison camps: that there were religious believers who behaved nobly in impossible conditions and that was really which really did it. I thought and then he also realized that the prisoners were running the camps correctly, so the people were enslaved by their own servitude and then he started to think, well, maybe the way I lived my life had something to do with why I ended up here and what I did. who did what Dostoevsky recommended people do Dostoevsky said that every man is responsible not only for everything that happens to him but for everything that happens to everyone else now, that's crazy to say, but not exactly and the reason is if you follow the command of the gospel let's say if you were perfect like your father in heaven is perfect, how much better the world would be and the answer is you don't know, if you were the brightest and brightest example you could be, how much good You could do it and the answer again, well, that's what your life is for is to find out and therefore the fact that things shake and sway, to what extent your sin is associated with the fact that everything shakes and sways. balances, it's a completely open question and I think that The world is actually constituted so that everything that happens is the fault of each individual, you know that it is and that goes hand in hand with the idea that each person has a spark of the divine within them that must not be hidden and that hides at its own risk in the danger of the world now is a strange metaphysical idea, but that doesn't really bother me because life has no shortage of strange things, even more extraordinary than the history of the shows in their and you may not agree with this is the case of Hans and Sophie.

Show the brothers in Nazi Germany who were just teenagers at the time and were part of the white rose movement and printed these leaflets that were very critical of the Nazi regime at a time when very, very few Germans were willing to do that. German adults were willing to do that, but they were willing to do it. They were Christians. They had deeply held moral beliefs and the way they died. Maybe people speculate that we don't know why they did it in the end, but they delivered it. They put out these leaflets in a school and they did it in a very obvious way and the school janitor folded them and sent them to the SS and they were killed very, very quickly by a kangaroo court and everything.

If not, can you talk about your case? What makes them special? How did they react as children in a way that we would find so inspiring when so many of the adults around them failed in that regard? Well, tracing the causal path to courage is not a simple task. Well, I mean, I've seen people who have led lives of bitter misery by any standard, who did their best to be good people despite it, you know, and if they had, they became psychopathic criminals, sociologists would have said, well, of course, look. to the conditions of their existence, but I have known people who have been brutalized beyond all comprehension and yet they decided that they would aim to tell the truth now, why are people capable of that?

That is an eternal mystery. You know, the Judeo-Christian doctrine is that we have free will and I think that's true now, that doesn't mean I understand it and I know that the relationship between free will and determinism is complex and that certain aspects of our action are explainable deterministically, but not in the final analysis. Part of the reason for this is that a deterministic organism cannot calculate the transformative horizon of the future, so because the future is actually unpredictable, a deterministic mechanism cannot adapt to it, but in any case people take their decisions and only God knows how. early you start doing them is very early.

You already know Carl Jung when he talked about the edible complex. So for Freud, the edible complex was in a way top-down, so a mother would be a suffocating mother, she would offer too much dependence and overwhelm her child. but for Jung it was more like a dance okay, so imagine a six year old in bed and maybe he's... I don't know, maybe he's a little dehydrated and he has a headache, but he's actually upset. because he didn't do it. She does her homework and her mom comes down from her and maybe she's a little lonely because she's had a fight with her husband for the fiftieth time that week and she thinks, you know, I wouldn't mind having company and the kid.

He thinks I wouldn't mind. You care about not going to school today and the kid says mom, you know, I have a headache and the mom says, well, honey, you know, maybe you don't need to go to school today and the kid thinks actually, I don't want to go. . to school because I didn't do my homework and the mom thinks I really want the kid to be home because I'm lonely and they both think yeah we just won't say that part out loud and the kid is also making a moral decision. Yes, we begin to make moral decisions.

God only knows how early, incredibly early, you know, terribly early, I would say, and you know why some people end up being brave when others don't, it's easier, it's easier not to be, you know, it's easier to take shortcuts. and not taking responsibility, not taking advantage of the opportunities that come your way, not paying for your sins in the moment, it's easier, so there are a thousand or a million ways you can be dishonest, but some people you know that They are models, a virtue and We have always argued about this that Calvinists thought that this was predestination, true, it is the grace of God.

I don't know how to explain it, it seems like a choice to me, you know? when in the famous image of God reaching out to Adam and the Vatican, on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, you see God reaching downwards and you see Adam reaching upwards, although not with much effort, really with a certain laziness, but the existence is constituted in that way, it is that things areThey offer, but we have the choice about whether to receive them and some people decide to extend their hands with a little more effort and humility and others decide to take the easy way out.

Do you think it is in the human psyche to resist tyranny and the number of dissidents varies from one country to another? different cultures, let's say that in Nazi Germany there were fewer or more dissidents than in the Soviet Union, did it vary in Maoist China? No, I don't think we know, although I would say that in free societies free societies are only free to the degree that everyone is a dissident right because freedom is maintained by people's trivial decisions to engage in interactions. truthful in trade and in relationships with each other and therefore free people are dissonant in telling the truth, there is no difference between that and being free.

It is when that begins to be silenced that things begin to lean towards the tyrannical or the chaotic. It now seems to me that the foundation provided by the Judeo-Christian narrative corpus is a necessary precondition for this, especially since that corpus has its central proposition that The spirit of truth is the highest principle, it is a proposition and not only is it the highest principle, but it is fundamental to our nature in the ultimate sense and part of our divine obligation and I do not see how that notion can be dispensed with without Dispense with the whole damn ball game now, of course, that's what Nietzsche thought was very correct, I mean, he believed that the consequences of the death of God would be nihilism and totalitarianism or that we would discover our own values, but that psychoanalysts practically put an end to that theory.

Is there any lesson we can learn from those? dissidents in the 20th century well, sojnitzen, you know, was something he cited. I think a man who doesn't lie can overthrow a tyranny, that's how everyone always overthrows a tyranny, that's how you overthrow tyranny. You use against yourself that's how you bring down tyranny You use against your wife You tell the truth So do you want to learn that lesson? Social networks and putting the boots to the Soviet Union. I mean, he wasn't alone, but he was a major contributor, let's say you know Reagan was a contributor, the Pope was a contributor, those would be the big three, I would say, and that was largely because they didn't lie and falsehood cannot resist truth well, that is an axiom of faith and it is an existential is a strange thing, huh, because this is again the reason why the notion that you can guide your life simply by paying attention to the facts is wrong , it's as if the fact is that if you lived your life according to the truth, that would be optimal. and the answer is that you have to run the simulation to discover that it is not a computable priority, there is no way to derive the moral before the story is told and that is what you do in your life, that is the existential conundrum of some way, that's what you're doing. thrown into existence to determine, you know the best way to move forward, you pay your money and you take a chance, and this is something I'm trying to emphasize in this new book I'm writing: you will have faith in something.

Now, there may be a multitude of contradictory things that simply make you an apotheistic pagan, a polytheistic pagan, but there is no root of non-faith, so the question arises, well, do you know what it is better for a wise person to have? faith? And I think it's true in part because how are you going to orient yourself in the world with a fake map? How is that going to work? It's not going to work and you might think, well, I can fake it once in a while, take a shortcut, it's like, uh, no, without faking your relationship with yourself, no.

Without contaminating the water from the well from which you draw water, there is no way it works. Do you think that your job as someone with a very high profile speaking about these issues and being part of the so-called resistance to this awakening tyranny? I'm not sorry I don't use a better word than that, but have you been successful in inspiring others? I mean, and I'm interested in what you think about the success of these other resistance movements that have existed around the world in Canada. the truckers protests in the Netherlands, the farmers in the UK, we have had many of you radical feminists who are arguing yes, some gender issues, so do you think your role has been in any way effective ? on that within those movements and do you think those movements themselves have been effective?

I know that it has been effective to some extent within those movements because I have been in contact with the people who have organized those movements and them. I've been told that, and you know, I spoke remotely at the truckers' protest and I was in contact with the truckers while they were protesting partly on the strategic front and the same thing happened in the Netherlands, to a somewhat lesser degree, so , and then on the broader public front, well, I know this is successful. I mean, that's why my wife and I keep traveling, because you know, if you looked at my life online, you'd think I was being stalked to death non-stop.

You know the radical narcissistic psychopaths, but that really only happens online wherever I go in the world, it's not like that at all. I have one bad encounter in about 5000 encounters and the rest are hyper positive people who are extremely polite to me. They always behave the same way, I guess there are three categories, there is the person who has been hurt at some point and who has recovered to some extent or is in the process of recovery, that would be the majority of the people who stopped me . people who have been interested in what I say but feel compelled to tell me that they don't agree with everything I say, which, you know, is kind of a response that always blows me away because it's like, well, the what make you think.

I would expect that and also why you tell me you know and I think it's because they want to play both sides against the middle but that's a very small minority of people. I don't think more than one in a hundred does that. and then you know, every once in a while I run into someone who, usually, has never heard anything I've said, but thinks they know what I'm doing, or maybe I, once in a while, meet someone who really He does it and he's not happy about it. But, um, every interaction I have with people is positive and I know it's had an effect because I've sold 10 million books and, you know, everywhere we go in the world, Tammy and I sell Sands of three to ten. thousand people and I'm always talking about the same thing which is really taking responsibility in the fundamental sense and I know that it has helped and we can say by going to these shows that it has helped because everyone says that it has helped, you know and that is the testimony of hundreds of thousands of people now, so because there are two levels, there is no in terms of helping people, there is in their individual lives, they tell the truth, they lie and there is the political level, can you change this? politics, vaccine mandates, etc.

I guess the protesting truckers were less successful in oh, they were quite successful, they were quite successful in collapsing the kovid tyranny quite precipitously after the trucker convoy and causing the collapse of the conservative leadership and you know the conservatives in Canada in At that time he was quite indecisive and played both sides against the middle and the new leader has much more courage, from all appearances, we will see to what extent the political consultant manipulates him to death. types, but do you see a distinction between those two? Those two. Oh, definitely things, although I mean you know the person when they're political or linked in some way.

Well, you can't be a true leader without getting your act together personally. front and for me the fundamental theater of action is the individual, that is why I am a psychologist and not a political scientist, economist, sociologist or politician, since I think I worried throughout my life. with the existence of malevolence and that is a spiritual problem, evil malevolence and it is addressed on an individual level and that has always been my main focus of concern once I learned that it was really a psychological issue rather than a political issue. I think you have to understand it.

Your psychological house is in order before you can be politically effective in the fundamental sense, otherwise you are just a tool of ideology or your own ego, which is why I am much more interested in operating on the psychological level than the political one. level, although I participate in some political discussion, you know, Giving Caesar what is Caesar's also means, to some extent, giving Caesar the right to do and we are political as well as psychological and we have political responsibilities, so it is necessary translate the individual ethical spirit into appropriate policy, but you cannot do that unless you can tell the truth and you cannot be a good leader unless you are able to listen and have the humility necessary to do so.

I have thought about a political career in Canada several times but firstly I don't speak French and that is a problem I could learn but I haven't so that would be an impediment and secondly I think I would probably be more effective doing so. that I'm doing what I could be in any political role in Canada, isn't it ironic that throughout this interview we've talked about dissidents, we've talked about resisting a kind of woke tyranny, but woke people see themselves. as resistant, they see themselves as aloof, maybe they don't agree with it, but during the 2016 Trump election there was this period of resistance, that's how they saw themselves, do you think they really believe they are resisting against this conservative elite?

Well, I think some of them do. and some of them I don't mean the real pathological types, they just use all that as a maneuver, is there a coping mechanism or well not? I think there are endless reasons for people to see themselves as victims, you know, I mean, we are. in the land of corporate giants largely and they are multinational and it is not at all obvious that they act, they often act against our best interests. I mean, that's certainly the case with the pharmaceutical companies, obviously, which is why their alliance with the radical left is such a bloody miracle um and so it is, as I said before, that in capitalist systems power and wealth they accumulate in the hands of fewer and fewer people, that is true for all the economic systems of which it is a part. of a much broader problem than the problem of capitalism, but it is easy for people to feel that they are at an unfair disadvantage because of the existing power structures and to the extent that those power structures are in fact corrupt and based on the power, they have a valid influence. complaint now the question is what do you do with that complaint?

I mean, you could consider yourself a special victim and narcissist and therefore deserving of some kind of special reparation or you could try to do something about it and also understand your own role in the spread. that Dynamic power, well, they are facing these big evil concepts like white supremacy, that's why they say they are fighting against white supremacy, they are fighting against this homophobia, they are fighting against this transphobia that is endemic and systemic throughout society, in all the elites, right? Let's look at a comparison between that and how the Leninist Soviet revolutionaries believed they were fighting against that elite and well, if they believed that, I mean they were ultimately power mongers and I mean people like Lennon and Stellan were just saying what What they needed.

They say that they must control absolute power as firmly as possible, but look, one of the canonical variants of the myth of the universal hero is David and Goliath, they are right and the reason is that the hero always does two things that he faces. chaos and what is terrifying and creates order, that is the fight of the dragon fundamentally, but the hero also kills the oppressive Giant and revives the Society, so eliminates the evil King. You see it in the Lion King story, for example, and he eliminates it. the evil uncle, which is a very common variant and the reason is that social hierarchies ossify and lean towards power and that is also part of the criticism of the left.

The right, but the left always goes too far. The radicals say that it is nothing more than Power is like no, it is nothing more than power. The fact that power corrupts the social enterprise and the psyche, in fact, does not mean that power is the fundamental motivating principle and that is actually of utmost importance. In fact, I believe play is the fundamental motivating principle, not power. I think the antithesis of power is play, and free play in particular, and it is a much more effective and much more enjoyable means of adaptation than the naked expression of power, but people tend to display unsophisticated heroism, which is a good idea. way of thinking about it you also know how to oppose man and then also assume that mere complaint, especially public, which is the equivalent of praying in public, by the way, just the mere public display of your rejection, your objection constitutes a sufficient moral effort and, Of course, the idiotic universities are absolutely complicit in transmitting that message.

It is as if everyone should be an activist. It is as if that is really their solution to the world's problems. It is to train young people.potentially competent to publicly flaunt their whiny moral virtues oh, that's right, there's nothing positive about that go out and do something, fix something, fix something, something real and you know, that's what I've been trying to do. That path is what I've been trying to outline for my observers and viewers, and a lot of people are trying it and it works. and then they're excited about it because then they have something real and that's much better, it's much better for the propagandists to always subvert the mythological into the ideological, as long as there is always the Ring of Truth in their pronouncements, you know, I'm standing.

Facing the man you should be, but you know the Judeo-Christian revolution in many ways, if you think about it psychologically, was the notion that the Tyrant you face most morally is the one who hides in Your Heart. The right thing is the elimination of the malevolence of the external world, it is the continuous elimination of it, so that as the idea of ​​God progresses, you see the idea of ​​God moving from the god whose manifestations in nature produce amazement even the god whose voice is revealed within um mainly in the voice of conscience then it is a psychologization of the idea of ​​the Divine the same thing happens to them on the front of malevolence it is like well, what is bad, well, a predator , a wolf, a snake, a bird of prey, right, a dragon, that's an amalgamation of all those things that are bad, what is evil, your tribal enemy, what is evil, hey, you're betraying your brother, what is evil, your self-betrayal, what is evil, the spirit of evil lurking within you, yes, that is, that is the most sophisticated representation and you could also argue and you know it is a moot point, but I think that It is true that the most effective way to fight external tyranny is by having defeated the Tyrant lurking within and then acting accordingly because then your words and your actions speak of you having defeated the devil and his Temptations in the desert, do you?

You know? When Christ is in the desert trying to conceptualize the nature of his kingdom, Satan appears to him and says: you could have the world and everything in it, you could be a political Master, you could be a king, you could be the emperor. in the worldly sense. and Christ thinks, what does he think? That's not good enough, that's not right, you can manipulate the maneuvers on the power front, you know, and you can end up ruling hell, as it turns out if you do that, but you can end up ruling or you can. try to put your house in order and then you will inherit the Kingdom instead of the world.

You know when people think that's superstition, but that's because they don't understand what the story means, so there's this idea that you should store up treasure in heaven, where it doesn't rust, what does that mean? Well, let's say you and I have an honest conversation, we've done it before, right, you interviewed me three years ago, two years ago, okay, and you didn't make any jokes, what was the consequence? Well, it went well, what does that mean? People were interested. Well, we got a lot of viewers and how and what was the consequence for you. I guess it made me proud of my work.

Good good. that's good, making you feel like you're doing something worthwhile, and then when you asked me to do this interview, I said yes, so why did it work well? It's because you behaved without betrayal as a journalist. So you accumulated, you accumulated something genuine on the reputation front. Well, moths can't eat it and rust can't destroy it. The right moment does not break it down, on the contrary, you store your genuine treasure in your genuine reputation. You have to treat other people appropriately as if they were you because they are you in the most fundamental sense.

Well, that is part of the Kingdom of Heaven and is immutable to earthly degradation. Well, what does that mean? Well, psychologically, it means we think. There has long been no better place to store future wealth than your reputation because then everyone wants to be around you and they want to interact with you and they offer you opportunities and if you fall on hard times, they are there to help you. help you because they trust you, it's like everyone I know who is truly successful. I'll give you an example, so I saw this in the faculty all the time, there were two types of professors, especially in relation to graduate students, there were the professors who had time for their graduate students and who were extraordinarily generous with their ideas and with publishing credits, so they were people you would go talk to.

My supervisor, Robert Peel, was one of them. He always had time and was never less than communicative with his creative ideas. and then, if we published, he would give credit where credit was due and appropriately take a backseat when necessary. So what did that mean? First of all, it meant that he was an inexhaustible source of ideas because he gave us and that indicated to him that he had faith in the source of his ideas and the reward he received by giving away his ideas produced the flowering of the system within him that produced ideas, see because what happens is if there is a part of you you have your neural architecture that can generate ideas well if you reward it to grow, so if you give away your ideas and get positive feedback as a consequence, that will deepen and broaden properly, so how do you Could that be a disadvantage for you? very different from a strictly selfish article, this was my damn idea.

I'm going to be the first author of the article and don't you dare steal my idea. Well, those people I just saw would eventually get to the point where they literally wouldn't have an idea and then they would even cling more to the ideas they had. Well, that's not a smart strategy that goes back to the idea of ​​dissent versus the kind of masses that were able to accept and willing to accept that lie that the regime perpetuated and I'm fascinated and I know you are too with those people. who chose the completely opposite path to what you just mentioned, that is, the evil people, the tyrannical. the people the people who headed these regimes the stalin the hitler the mouse this idea exists in the history of the great men the great men of history do you think this theory is legitimate?

Do people exert these enormous influences on the societies around them or do you think? In the alternative Theory which is that they are working merely within the limits of the masses within the limits of the type of flow of History, if you will, I would say that a great man somehow gives voice to the present, so there is a dynamic relationship between that greatness and the social environment, but it is true that as far as I am concerned, everything advances as a consequence of individual effort on all fronts, that is why I believe that the individual has the correct level of conceptualization, analysis and So Are there great people?

Well, obviously, they are at the forefront of development. They have the communicative ability and you know, one of the great advantages of our communicative ability is that we can all share the benefits of that adaptation of Stellar Edge in all directions simultaneously. You know, that's a great thing and I think people are called to act on that conceptualization. I think everyone has something inside them. I think everyone has something for lack of a better term. Divine about them and that they have something. to bring to the world what no one else can bring, that without which the world is less and often profoundly less, so that together with that Divine value that we have, we all have a Divine responsibility and the advantage of that is that there is where is the meaning. is fine this is another thing that I've been successful in communicating to young men in particular is like well, why be responsible because it's meaningful? well, why do you need that?

Well you're going to suffer my friend you better have something to rely on when the storms come or they'll take you away or you'll wish you were dead We are all fascinated with these individuals who have changed and moved history. I think you know that you can walk in any city in the world and you will see statues of these great men, whether they are figures of national heroes of the local population or even more evil figures like Lenin and Stalin, and as someone who is interested in history, like someone who loves reading biographies who read about people like Bismarck who were completely demonic in their actions with incredible humor I don't know how much I don't know if you studied it, but you should if you haven't.

I have a feeling that the great men of history from that era may be over and you look at the leaders today and you just see mediocrity so that's a good example so maybe you don't agree with me yeah no , they are still there, there are many of them, you know, no, they are still there, the political leaders may not be there, but they may be in other areas, so you say Musk and Rogan, those are two very specific people, yes, I have met to a lot of great people, you know, who have the shoulder and their weight and do it correctly and, thank God for that, yes, less politically, why? producing these leaders like Macron like Biden like Trudeau what is where this phenomenon comes from because they seem so uniform throughout the West probably because there are methods of communication that could not distinguish the wheat from the chaff for a long time?

I think it might be changing with long-form political dialogue because it's a lot harder to hide if you have to talk for two and a half hours so you know that the sound of television in particular lent itself to a kind of momentary lightness and appeal and stupid and partly because television, well, it had very narrow bandwidth, it was extremely expensive per minute, everything had to be reduced to a sound bite and it really emphasized a certain type of physical attractiveness, so none of that helped at all , except those who know. that period of time is probably coming to an end, we'll see it's interesting because social media has really shone a light on our politicians in a way that we haven't experienced in the past, so people like Bismarck, people like Caesar, these were Mysteries for the general public, people did not know what was going on in their private lives, they hardly knew anything about them beyond what their propaganda told them or beyond what the press at that time or what the communication orally I told them about these people, they also know it.

Do you think that's an area where there's been a big difference between the past and now and where we can see our leaders in a very different way? Do you think that kind of bubble has burst? Well, we'll see, we'll see. I suspect it might have been because I think I've seen over the last two years, particularly three years, particularly in Canada and the United States, that a lot of political types are moving away from Legacy Media and its emphasis on appearance in the face of new media and its ability to deliver content and I think it will differentially reward people who are real.

It's very difficult to be fake for two and a half hours on YouTube in a spontaneous conversation, you know, and I think the people who tend to be fake won. I don't even do those interviews because they just sell out, so I think it's a very positive development now that you know that the sensory tyrants might have a word or two to say about it. I mean, YouTube removed my interview with Robert Kennedy, which I'm not very impressed because they did it during an active presidential campaign and I think it was a traitorous act, but anyway you know there are many other avenues of communication and the sensors have not able to close the genuine dialogue. and in fact, quite the opposite, I mean Rogan in particular, he is a fascinating phenomenon because he did what he did practically alone, he has his producer, there are two of them and all Rogan did was ask stupid questions, you know, but to me you are as interesting as Rogan I guess I'm 23 years old.

He was a young man when I read your books. You know, you may have guessed it, but you know, I think you changed my life in some ways in terms of the advice you gave me. we were giving and like I said, I find people fascinating, so I want to ask a question about you for a moment. um since 2016, how do you think your life has changed? how do you think you have changed? How has your perspective changed towards the The world changed well, my life turned upside down in many ways because I had to give up my professorship and my research company and I put a lot of time and effort into it and I would like to do it and I was good at it . and uh, in particular, the research enterprise has completely collapsed now that I've been able to duplicate the teaching enterprise on a much broader scale, and that's been extraordinarily useful and rewarding and much better, so there's no net loss there, except the research company which was a real loss and then my clinical practice also became impossible and that really still irritates me to no end because I knew those people extremely well and we were getting to places, you know, we had a real relationship, sometimes one that It had lasted a decade and just exploded.

Also, you know that the College of Psychologists has been on my case since 2016 and they are costing me ninety thousand dollars a month in legal bills, which does not impress me much either and every accusation they brought against me is not only unjustified but absurd andprocedurally incompetent to a degree that is almost unimaginable, so that was annoying. There were many harrowing experiences that accompanied what unfolded in the last seven years, particularly in the first four or five years, because every week, month, something like that there would be some new scandal usually struck down by some narcissistic journalist whose only objective in the interview was trap me into saying something that would demolish my reputation to your renown and every time that happened things were unstable for weeks or months even but it was reversed and now we have learned that it is reversed so now it is much less worrying and that is one of the things in which I am different.

Now I know that if you're careful, they attack you and you hold on to it. The net result will be positive if you can tolerate the interruption in between, so it's very useful to know. Now if you know something, someone rude says something that can devastate my family's reputation. Just watch and wait and see how it changes because it is the case that the people who persecuted me most pathologically did me the most good and that is not something I didn't know I didn't know that's how the world works. It worked and that's part of the reason you can accept an assault, you know, because you need to know what your right attitude is, you need to know what your attitude is towards tragedy and your attitude towards tragedy is that you have to endure it with hope because Well, what else are you going to do?

You are going to descend into the abyss of victimhood. I mean, even if the world has been unfairly piled on top of you. Well, portraying yourself as a helpless victim and becoming bitter and resentful and then murderous and then genocidal, that doesn't help, it just turns tragedy into hell, so you are called to maintain faith and hope in the face of catastrophe. existential of existence and then with respect to malevolence, you also know, do you accept your enemy I suppose if you were a master you could do that so there are advantages to suffering there are ways to make it much, much worse than it has to be at least you know the perks of suffering that's hard You know, I was very, very sick and in a level of pain that I didn't even know was possible for two and a half years and we're talking about physical illnesses for people who aren't aware of your yeah, yeah, and at any point during that time, if there had been an off switch, I would have just flipped it and you know, you could say well, did you learn anything? and the answer is yes, but I would also say that I think I could have learned it in less than two and a half years, you know, I'm very cautious about saying that suffering is justified in the wisdom it produces.

I think there are wise and reckless ways to respond to suffering and I think it can take you down a notch or two and force you. You need to recalibrate, but I think you need to be cautious about making the hard and fast rule that you know all suffering is to our benefit. Do you feel like you've become more cynical and pessimistic about the world? If that were possible, no, no. I don't believe it. I mean I'm more amazed at the depths of malevolent stupidity that are possible. Comic and malevolent stupidity is an endless source of surreal wonder, but you know for the same reason.

I've met great people who are doing great things and I think I don't believe that falsehood can triumph over truth, so I'm not a pessimist at all and no more of a pessimist. I mean, I've always had a pretty dark view of things. I studied atrocities for decades before something exploded around me on the political scene, you know, and we could talk about that for a while too. I mean, you know, people sometimes tell me you know they praise me for my bravery and I don't. I really appreciate it in a way, not that I'm offended, that's not what I mean, I just don't think it's right, it's like when Bill C-16 came up, people were wondering why I made such a big deal out of it. . and the reason for me, well, first of all, he knew what he was going to do and he did exactly what he knew he would do in detail.

I knew it would produce a psychological epidemic. I told that to the Senate. I could just see it. as clearly as possible and I knew that it was part and parcel of the process of restricting speech, so those were the reasons why I opposed it and you could say why I opposed it and the answer is: I am much more afraid of losing hold my tongue before the Tyrant than anything the government or the woke radicals can do to me because I know how people are corrupted and if you have any sense if you know how people are corrupted, I will be much more afraid of that than anything else and It's fine with me, why do I say what I think?

Because I know the alternative is hell, and it's not that I think I know, but that I know as much as I could. You may know something I have observed in my clinical practice for decades. I saw it play out in my personal life in many ways. I see it working in the political world. You lie at your own risk. You have no idea what you will pay. that and what everyone else will do too, it's not just that you take yourself to hell while dragging everyone with you is not good, it is not good as individuals, we all have to make decisions about what we talk about, obviously online for example, and it's possible that I have opinions that I can't share because let's say I would lose my job or get arrested or terminated completely, so I'm lying by not disclosing certain opinions that I have or I'm just being practical, well you don't.

You don't have to see what you think about absolutely everything every second. You have the right to privacy and it is reasonable to be discreet. I don't think you should make unnecessary enemies, you know? And then, well, if you falsify what you explicitly believe, that is. a big mistake as I would say you can make a blanket, you can just put a general prohibition on you not lying and what there is that could define is that you do not say things that you know according to your own standards of Truth that are false, not evaded . all the relativistic moral arguments it's like everyone knows the difference between saying something they think is true and something they know is false, okay so don't do that now, there will be extreme cases where you don't know it's good, maybe.

Those are places you should know about, explore carefully or just keep quiet and then there are the more complex situations where you might say something but you think it might be unwise under the circumstances and I would say those are very complex moral cases. then you could say, well, look, I'm a teacher and I can't oppose the school board because I have four children and my wife stays at home and we depend solely on my income, so it's the duty that I owe to my my wife and my children compared to the duty that I owe to my profession and to my society and that is a real conflict of duty, it is a genuine conflict of duty and the ethical path to follow is not very clear in the way that someone could specify it from the outside , OK?

I have someone like that in my clinical practice, I say, well, look, you're going to be asked to make very fine moral judgments, so you better become the person who can do that, and how do you do it well? all by stopping lying correctly because then you will sharpen your vision and then you can be in a situation where you can decide, in a given circumstance, which path to follow is the most morally appropriate. Now part of the reason why this is a crucial point is That part of the reason why you should be careful what you say is because well, there is no difference between speaking and thinking and if you muddy the conceptual Waters and find yourself in a jam you'll be too blind to think and then I'll be in trouble and you know, and not just the kind of trouble that can cause death, that trouble too, but something worse, so if you know and you've thought about it it's like, oh , I see, I can't lie because if I lie, I falsify the process that allows me to fulfill the truth when the challenge arises, you think, oh, that seems pretty obvious, I have to be careful because otherwise, I know that I know and so do I know that if you are careful about what you say, especially that you don't lie, but also that you practice saying what you need to say when the time is right, then your vision becomes sharper and the world improves around you and the opportunities multiply. and everything turns out much better for you. although it's complex, but and for everyone else, much better, that's how the world works in The Pursuit Of Truth and I guess in the quest against injustice, do you think people can get trapped in rabbit holes?

I'm going to expand it. What I mean is that we just made a documentary about Canada. As you know, there are so many things happening here that are terrible and should be investigated and fought against, but if I spent my entire life and every day investigating these things. terrible injustices and justices around the world, we have these phones by our side right now and we look at Twitter. I don't know what you do but I look at Twitter all the time and this can lead to a certain amount of depression and anger really and I remember during the pandemic my grandfather was at his wife's house, my grandmother was the one who unfortunately passed away but she was at a house and he was alone for the first time in almost 60 years and they were separated and he was alone and I remember he was watching the news all the time because he was interested, he's a curious guy but it was making him very depressed and I told him don't look the news, don't do it and I And it's the same with Twitter.

You know, if you're obsessively looking at these things, do you think there's a danger that you could overexpose yourself to these things even though they're terrible and they're happening, but what? m I guess what I'm trying to say is if we all need a little break from social media and watching those things you know with your grandfather, and you point out something particularly relevant, he was alone, so part of The way we We support against idiosyncratic obsession, let's say, by surrounding ourselves with other people. Do you know someone. You have an intimate relationship with your family.

Your circle of friends. Your business compatriots. Because by balancing all those things you can find a kind of harmony. right and like a musical harmony and that would be a state of play actually and that will help you decide when you strayed too far, you know in an obsessive direction so you know you're a one trick pony or a or or you're just playing the same drum over and over again and you partly reinforce yourself against that by placing yourself in a broader community so that people in that community continually align you with Mental Health being bad? conceived and psychologists are partly to blame for that because we think of mental health as something subjective and internal, but it is not, it is the harmonious balance of a network of relationships with oneself but also with other people and it is harmony that is health and so You can deviate in a discordant direction and it is counterproductive, you know when you can realize that it is counterproductive even because doing so makes you less capable of acting positively against those things that disturb you, so you have to reserve your strength, that is another reason why maybe you can't say everything you think all the time is like well, you have to prioritize and you know how to prioritize well, that's what a religious narrative is for fundamentally because a religious narrative is a narrative in which you prioritize first thing and Well, that's wisdom and that's complicated, so yes, you can go down rabbit holes, especially when you're attached to sources of information and you're kind of an information omnivore, you know that and I'm curious to know if you think that You ever get too far down a rabbit hole.

I mean, I know for me taking a break from Twitter can be one of the brightest, most relaxing things I can do, especially somewhere like Canada where you can go hiking and I can just see nature and you know the contrast between that and sitting at my desk scrolling, yeah, well, I think that's probably it. Most of the information I get I get from two sources, three sources I guess, books because I read a lot of books in the I do podcasts and they're usually associated with the book and then Twitter keeps me up to date with what's going on in the culture, so the news can get too good, yes, and I'm susceptible to that, probably especially when I'm tired. you know, because you're less able to regulate or I'm less able to regulate the extraction of information if I'm tired and Twitter, of course, provides you with information, that is, it doesn't finish a book, at least it finishes a newspaper that you can read. all Twitter is like the newspaper that never ends and it is the algorithm that adapts to you it is not just a newspaper that anyone can read it is specifically for you and what you watch and what you like and what you read yes, well Twitter Twitter is a little better than other social media platforms in that sense because you choose who you follow, but you know you're pointing out what is essentially the danger of being open to information.

I mean, one of the advantages of being conservative is conservatives set boundaries correctly tend not to be inundated by an excess of information people who hire more an openness to experience tend to be more liberal because of the way they are very pro of information, but the problem with information is that there is too muchInformation is indistinguishable from chaos and that can destabilize you and it is complicated these things are very difficult to manage and are designed to be difficult to manage so you know that we are all learning as we go and I have made mistakes On that front, without a doubt, it is easy binge on Twitter.

It's another difference from maybe you in the past, when Twitter didn't exist, even you know, in the 1990s, when you were writing your first book. Can you see that difference? How is that? How has that manifested itself? You know the Twitter era versus the book era, I guess. Well, for a long time I didn't pay much attention to the news, like I probably didn't watch news largely from 1985 to I don't know when this stuff came out, you know what that 2010 or something like that, yeah, and I didn't really suffer. for not watching the news. I mean, I read The Economist.

I read certain magazines that kept me abreast of macro trends, let's say, and that seemed to be enough now. It's complicated. Twitter is very complicated because I run this podcast and you know. I do two a week and that's a lot and I have to choose the right people for the conversations and a lot of that is a consequence of using Twitter, you know, because I can see what's trending and what needs to be addressed, and in the extent to which I have become a journalist, which is quite true, since the Twitter podcast is not optional, that is how I test the culture.

You know, it's probably a biased sample, but it's as unbiased as I can get and I do a lot of reading research and still a lot of writing, so I want to end the interview if you don't mind with one last topic and that's the UK, where obviously there is a British newspaper. One of my favorite videos of yours too. They're here making a documentary about Canada, well it seems like the Canadian media doesn't want to do it, man, Canada is a much quirkier place than Canadians think and that's the fact that Canada has become an object of international interest. , it's like when what the hell happened that?

You know, the world is upside down when Canada, when Canadian politics is interesting, it's like what the hell is going on and I think people can see how the degeneration of our nation into a Banana Republic outside of Canada is much more accurate than People inside Canada understands that people inside Canada have no idea what a devastating blow to Canada's international reputation that the seizure of the bank accounts was, they just don't know that they think they deserved it, it's like they have no idea what that pointed out to the rest of the world you are right that Canada did that, yes, Canada of course was born out of the British Empire and those British settlers, many of them Scottish actually and Irish, not just English, who were coming out to the frontiers and expanding that Empire, what do you think was special? about Britain, was it special and why did it probably do the most effective job of any modern state in translating the narrative structure of the Judeo-Christian Biblical Corpus into policy and did it partly explicitly in its parliamentary structure, but also did it even more wisely? with its common law tradition, I mean, English common law is a miraculous and bloody bottom-up law.

I mean, God, what a phenomenal achievement, and yes, I think that makes Britain unique and worthy of tremendous admiration, you know, these are the anti-People who criticize oppression in America and who condemn The colonialists of the United Kingdom in particular by their oppressive policies are spitting in the face of the only political system that ever successfully controlled slavery, and not only in practice due to the British Navy on the high seas, but also metaphysically and politically, like the British, it was the British who decided without a doubt that slavery was wrong and then they did something about it and that was a documented historical reality.

The reason for this is that the British parliamentarians were called to conscience by the English evangelical Christians, essentially that Wilberforce in particular, who said that, according to the doctrines that you claim to consider sacred, this should not be maintained and therefore , you can't and Britain did, you know and the British too, even in relation to the Empire, it was in the same period of time that we British were already deciding that colonial government in India had to be directed at the emancipation of the Indian people and their elevation as responsible individuals to the realm of sovereign citizenship and that is a surprising thing for an Empire to come to this conclusion, you know, and you can be cynical about the It took a delay, but it didn't take that long and at the India is doing quite well, you know, and I think the British bequeathed their gift of governance around the world and that is no coincidence and they deserve credit for it and it would be a catastrophe for Britain to fall down the rabbit hole of self-denial and not realizing that it is an amazing place.

I mean, there is no United States without the United Kingdom. I mean, Americans like to think that they know that the tradition of freedom in the United States is the The American Revolution is complete nonsense and we knew it in Canada because we knew that what Americans did in their Revolution was fight for rights of the English, and that's what they did and that doesn't take anything away from the American Revolution, but it links what happened in the US to a historical progression that had gone on for centuries before that and that was unstoppable and that It was the Revelation in the political space of the Judeo-Christian Revelation fundamentally, as far as I can tell, the American Revolution.

It's fascinating because there were these wonderful people who wrote the Constitution, the founding fathers who were writing it and who were having these debates about English common law versus French revolutionary philosophy, you have Thomas Jefferson, you have Hamilton and this is the contrast, right? It is not like this? Or do you agree with me that this is the contrast between the English system you just praised and the French revolutionary system throughout history? Do you think those are the two types of divisions in history? It is a large part of the divided and that part is and that is what I think the French degenerate in the direction of the Luciferian intellectual presumption from the top down the elite can determine rationality can govern well in the first place rationality makes a very, very bad master a very good servant but a very bad master Yes, and much of the centralizing tendency that is characteristic of the EU can be attributed to the same spirit that motivated the French, the French revolutionaries, and we all know how that ended and not well, so you know, I see the French Revolution. itself as a reflection of something deeper which is the continuous manifestation of the spirit of Cain, let's say it is an essentially resentful intellect and it is the same spirit that produces the Tower of Babel in the biblical Corpus and this excessive intellectual pretension and worship of that of the selfish intellect, um, that's a very old problem, much older even than the French Revolution, but it's certainly a manifestation of the same thing, whereas the British system is bottom-up, you know, and the respect for the common man is not.

It's an empty phrase in Britain and you can say when you go there I want to say I love that country, it's a great country, it's a country that is suffering from too much

guilt

at the moment, which I guess in some ways is even a testament to it's moral soundness, you know, but it's still unfortunate, you see the same thing in the Netherlands, you know, I went and talked to a lot of intellectuals in the Netherlands and they said, well, we're not even sure we have a culture, you know When I come? to the Netherlands from Canada and I don't think I can even see for a second how you can assume that what the hell do you mean you should come to northern Alberta if you want to see a place you don't?

I don't have a culture that's 50 fucking years old, you know, out of Bush yesterday, not this amazing Amsterdam in particular in the Netherlands, it's like the UK, it's a fucking miracle in the country, that's why it's so disturbing to see what what is happening in the Dutch farmers protest. up front, although they may have the last laugh yet, so Dr. Jordan Peterson, thank you very much for joining us, thank you very much for coming here and talking to me.