Watch: Full Jan. 6 Committee Hearing - Day 4

the select

committee

to investigate the January 6 attack on the capital of the United States will be in order without objection the president is authorized to declare the

committee

in recess at any time pursuant to regulation 10 of the House Impeachment Authority the president announces the approval of the committee to publish the deposition materials presented during today's

hearing

good afternoon in our last

hearing

we tell the story of a plan promoted by Donald Trump to pressure former Vice President Mike Pence to illegally overturn the election results we demonstrate that When the pressure campaign failed and Mike Pence fulfilled his constitutional obligation, Donald Trump unleashed a violent mob against him.

Showing that the mob came within about 40 feet of the vice president today will demonstrate that what happened to Mike Pence was not an isolated part of Donald Trump's plan to overturn the election, in fact, he put pressure on the public. servants to betray their oaths was a fundamental part of the Playbook and a handful of election officials in several key states stood between Donald Trump and the overturning of American democracy as we begin today it is important to remember that when we count the votes for president We count the votes state by state for the most part, the candidates who win the popular vote in a state win all of the state's Electoral College votes and whoever wins the most Electoral College votes wins the presidency, so when Donald Trump tried to overturn the election results, focused on just a few states, wanted state and local officials to say the vote was tainted by widespread fraud and throw out the results even though, as we showed last week, there was no no electoral fraud that could have overturned the election results and Like Mike Pence, these public servants would not accept Donald Trump's plan and when they did not accept the big lie and replaced the will of the voters with the will of Donald Trump to remain in power, Donald Trump worked to make sure they faced the consequences of the threats. to people's livelihoods and lives threats of violence that Donald Trump knew about and amplified and in our other hearings we cannot simply look back at what happened in late 2020 and early 2021 because the danger had not gone away from our democracy and not It is a powerful test on January 6 and in the days before we say that our institutions salute, but what does that really mean?

Democratic institutions are not abstractions or ideas, they are local officials who oversee elections, secretaries of state, people in whom we have placed our trust. that they will fulfill their duties, but what if they don't? Two weeks ago, New Mexico held its primary elections. A county commission refused to certify the results, citing vague and unsubstantiated claims related to Dominion voting machines. The court weighed in, saying New Mexico law requires it. the commission to certify the results two of the three members of the commission finally relented one still refused saying that his vote quote is not based on any evidence it is not based on any fact it is only based on my instinct and my own intuition and that that's all By the way, a few months ago, this county commissioner was found guilty of trespassing on the capitol grounds on January 6th.

This story reminds us of a few things first, as we have demonstrated in our previous hearings, the claims that widespread voter fraud tainted the 2020 election. The presidential election has always been alive. Donald Trump knew they were alive and continued to amplify them anyway. Everything we describe today, the relentless campaign of destructive pressure on state and local officials, was based on a lie. Donald Trump knew it. He did it anyway. Second, no LIE. has not gone away, it is corrupting our Democratic institutions, the people who believe that lie are now seeking positions of public trust and, as seen in New Mexico, that oath to the people they serve will take a backseat to their commitment with the big lie if that happens who will ensure that our institutions do not crumble under the pressure, we will not be close, we will have a catastrophe, my distinguished colleague from California, Mr.

Shield, will first present much of the conclusions of the select committee about this issue. I'm pleased Thank you very much, Mr. President, today we will begin examining President Trump's effort to overturn the election by putting pressure on state officials and state legislatures. Donald Trump had a direct influence and personal role in this effort as did Rudy Giuliani and John Eastman; In other words, the same people who were trying to pressure Vice President Mike Pence to illegally reject electoral votes were also simultaneously working to overturn the outcome of the 2020 election at the state level each. All of these efforts to overturn the election are independently serious, each deserving attention from both Congress and our justice department, but as a federal court has already indicated, these efforts were also part of a broader plan and all this was done in preparation for January 6th.

I would like to make two points in particular. First, today you will hear about calls made by President Trump to officials in Georgia and other states. As you listen to these tapes, keep in mind what Donald Trump already knew at the time he was making those calls. He had been told time and time again that his accusations of stealing the election were nonsense, for example, this is what former Attorney General Bill Barr told President Trump about the accusations in Georgia. We did this ourselves and, based on our review, including interviews of key witnesses, The Fulton. The county's accusations were baseless, the ballots under the table were legitimate ballots, they were not in a suitcase, they had been previously opened to eventually feed all the material about the water leak into the machine and that there was some subterfuge involved.

I felt like there was some confusion, but there was no evidence of subterfuge to create an opportunity to sneak things into the recount, and therefore we didn't see any evidence of froth in the Fulton County and Acting Deputy District Attorney episode. General Richard Donahue said this to Donald Trump and I said something, sir, we have done dozens of investigations, hundreds of interviews, the main allegations are not supported by the evidence developed. His own advisers told Mr. Trump that he had no basis for his stolen election claims. However, he continued to pressure state officials to change the election results.

Second, you will hear about a series of threats and efforts to pressure state officials to overturn the election result. One of our Witnesses today, Gabriel Sterling, explicitly warned President Trump about possible violence on December 1, 2020. More than a month before January 6, you will see excerpts of that video repeatedly today, it has all gone too far. Joe Jennifer today asked Chris Krebs Ace patriot, who ran sisa, to close a twenty-something tech in Gwinnett County today. death threats and a noose saying he should be hanged for treason because he was transferring a batch report from an EMS to a county computer so he could read it you have to stop Mr.

President, you have not condemned these actions or this language Senators have not condemn this language or these actions this has to stop we need you to step forward and if you are going to take a leadership position show something my boss secretary raffensberger his address is there they have people making caravans around his house they have had people breaking into his property has to stop this is an election this is the backbone of democracy and all of you who haven't said a damn word are complicit in this the point is that Donald Trump didn't care about the threats of violence he didn't condemn them he didn't make any effort for stopping them anyway he went ahead with his false accusations one more point.

I urge everyone

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ing today to focus on the evidence the committee will present and don't be distracted by politics, this is Seriously, we cannot allow America to become a nation of conspiracy theories and thug violence. Finally, I want to thank our Witnesses today for all their service to our country. Today, all of America will hear about the selfless actions of these men and women who acted honorably to defend. the law protects our freedom and preserves our constitution today Mr. President, we will all see an example of what truly makes America great. Thank you, Mr. President. I surrender without objection.

The President recognizes the gentleman from California. Mr. Schiff for his keynote speech. Thank you, Mr. President. and Mrs. Blice President on November 3, 2020 Donald Trump ran for re-election to the office of the President and lost to his opponent Joe Biden finished ahead in the key battleground states of Arizona Michigan Wisconsin Pennsylvania Georgia and others places however and for the first time in history the losing presidential candidate fought to stay in power as we have seen in previous hearings he did so through a variety of means on election day He tried to stop the counting of the votes knowing that the millions of absentee votes election officials would be counting on Election Day and he would subsequently come out strongly against it and hand Joe Biden a victory next and when he couldn't stop the counting he tried to stop state legislatures and governors from certifying the results of the election, went to court and filed dozens of frivolous lawsuits. lawsuits that made unsubstantiated allegations of fraud when those two failed, he mounted a pressure campaign targeting individual state lawmakers to try to get them to return to session and declare him the winner, decertify Joe Biden as the winner, or send two slates of electors to Congress. . one for Biden and one for him and pressure Vice President Pence to choose him as the winner, but the state legislatures did not accept this scheme and neither did the vice president.

Neither legislature agreed to go back into a special session and declare it. the winner, no legitimate state authority in the states that Donald Trump lost would agree to appoint fake Trump electors and send them to Congress, but this did not stop Trump's campaign nor did they gather groups of individuals and key battleground states and make it happen. They would call themselves electors. He created fake certificates associated with these fake electors and then transmitted them to Washington and Congress to be counted during the joint session of Congress on January 6. None of this worked, but according to Federal District Judge David Carter, former President Trump and others likely violated multiple federal laws by participating in this scheme, including conspiracy to defraud the United States, he will hear evidence of the former's direct involvement. president and his top advisors on key elements of this plot or what Judge Carter called a coup d'état in search of a legal theory for so The judge explained that the campaign pressured by President Trump to stop the electoral count did not end with the Vice President Pence;

He addressed all levels of federal and state elected officials to convince state legislatures. He said certifying competing electors was essential to stopping the count and ensuring President Trump's re-election. The election, as we have seen in our previous hearings, analyzing this scheme, was a big lie, that the election was plagued by massive fraud and was somehow stolen. You'll remember what the president, the president's own attorney general, Bill Barr, said he told the president about these claims of massive fraud that affected the outcome of the election and I told him that the things that his people were throwing out to the public were constructed , I mean the allegations of fraud were lies by the president were and are a dangerous cancer on the body politic if you can convince Americans that they can't trust their own elections and that every time they lose it is somehow illegitimate then what remains is violence to determine who should govern this brings us to the focus of today's hearing as state election officials refuse to stop counting Donald Trump and his campaign tried to pressure them when state executive officials refused to certify him as the winner of the states he lost.

He applied more pressure when state lawmakers refused to reconvene and appoint Trump's electors. He turned up the pressure once again for whoever he got. In the lead up to Donald Trump's continued hold on power after losing the election, he was the subject of a dangerous and escalating pressure campaign. This pressure campaign led to angry phone calls and text messages, armed protests, intimidation, and, all too often,threats of violence and death. State election officials were also singled out, even local election workers who were doing their jobs diligently, were accused of being criminals and had their lives turned upside down, as we will show that the president's supporters listened to the former president's claims of fraud and the false accusations he made against the state. and local officials as a call to action, you are a threat to democracy, you are just a threat to free and honest elections, always immediately and then about 45 minutes later we started hearing noises outside my house and that It made my stomach flip and I thought it was me and them and then we just don't know what's going to happen and the uncertainty of that was what the fear was.

Do they come with weapons? They are going to attack my house. I'm here with my son. I know I'm trying to get into bed, so it was the scariest moment just not knowing what was going to happen. This pressure campaign against state and local officials spanned numerous battleground states, as you will see in this video produced by the select committee my name is Josh Rosselman I am an investigative counsel for the House Select Committee to investigate the 6 attack From January to the United States capital starting in late November 2020 the president and his lawyers began appearing before state legislators urging them to give their electoral votes for Trump even though he lost the popular vote.

I represent President Trump along with Jenna Ellis and this is our fourth or fifth hearing, this election has to be turned because we want Pennsylvania by a lot and we won all these swing states by a lot. This was a strategy with both practical and legal elements. The select committee obtained an email from just two days after the election in which a Trump campaign lawyer named Cleta Mitchell asked another Trump lawyer, John Eastman, to write a memo justifying the idea. When do you remember this coming up as an option in the post-election period for the first time, right after the election?

It could have been before the election that Eastman set up. A memo attempting to justify this strategy was distributed to Trump's White House legal team and Rudy Giuliani's state legislators across the country and presented to the Georgia state legislature to defend it publicly, which could also make the Florida legislature was willing to do. which is to adopt a slate of electors yourselves and when you add the combination of significant statistical anomalies and sworn Abbott Havens and video evidence of outright voter fraud, I don't think it's your authority to do that but, frankly, I think we have a duty to do that to protect the integrity of the election here in Georgia, but Republican officials in several states issued public statements acknowledging that President Trump's proposal was illegal;

For example, Georgia Governor Brian Kemp called the proposal unconstitutional, while Arizona House Speaker Rusty. Bowers wrote that the idea would undermine the rule of law. The lobbying campaign to get state lawmakers to support this team intensified when President Trump invited delegations from Michigan and Pennsylvania to the White House. Did you or President Chatfield, emphasize to the president that he was not going to do anything that violated Michigan law. I think we did, whether or not those were exact words or not, but I think the words I would have most likely used as we were going to continue.

However, the law continued the pressure the next day, President Trump tweeted a quote: "I hope the courts or legislatures have the courage to do whatever it takes to maintain the integrity of our elections and the United States itself." America, the world is

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ing," he posted. multiple posts on Facebook listing contact information for state officials and urging his supporters to contact them to demand a vote on decertification In one of those posts, President Trump revealed Mike Shirkey's personal phone number to his millions of followers. All I remember is receiving it a short time ago. Less than 4,000 text messages in a short period of time calling for action, it was a loud, loud, constant noise.

Cadence you know, we hear that Trump's people are calling and asking for changes to the conferences and you can do this. Well, you know they were believing things that weren't true. These efforts also involved targeted outreach to state lawmakers and reclaiming their authority and especially to conferences supporting President Trump and Vice President Pence by lawyers for President Trump and Trump himself, another Pennsylvania lawmaker. House Speaker Brian Cutler received daily voicemails from Trump's lawyers in the last week of November. Mr. President, calling them together because obviously we would like the elections. Hello, Mr. President, I'm Jenna Ellis and I'm here with Mayor Giuliani.

Hi Brian, I'm Rudy. I have something important to draw his attention to and I think it really changes things. Cutler considered the communication inappropriate and asked his attorneys to tell Rudy Giuliani to stop calling, but Giuliani continued to approach him. I understand that he doesn't want to talk to me right now. I just want to draw his attention to some facts and talk to you as a fellow Republican on December 30th. Trump allies Steve Bannon announced a protest at Cutler's home. We hit the road and head to Cutler. to start going to the offices and if necessary we are going to go to the houses and we are going to let them know what we think of them.

There were multiple protests. The truth is I don't remember the exact number. There were at least three. I think, whether it's beyond me. district office or my home, and you're right, my son could have been 15 then and I was home alone for the first time, all my personal information was online documents, it was my personal email, my personal cell phone. my home phone number, in fact, we had to disconnect our home phone for about three days because it was ringing at all hours of the night and filling up with messages. the Trump campaign spent millions of dollars running ads online and on television the evidence is overwhelming call your governor and legislators demand they inspect the machines and listen to the evidence public pressure on state officials often became dangerous in the period Before January 6, what are we doing?

I'm going to do what you and I can do for the State Legislature besides Hillary, even though we shouldn't do that. I'm not advising that, but I mean, what else do you need to do? The punishment for betrayal, death, the state pressure campaign and the danger it represents. State officials and state capitals across the country were a dangerous precursor to the violence we saw on January 6 at the United States Capitol. Today you will hear from Rusty Bowers, the Republican speaker of the Arizona House of Representatives, who will tell us about his conversations with the president with Rudy Giuliani and John Eastman and what the president's team asked of him and how his oath of office did not would allow, then you will hear from Brad Raffensberger, the Republican Secretary of State of Georgia, whom Trump ordered to cite a fine of 11,780 votes that does not exist, but only the exact number of votes necessary to surpass Joe Biden.

You'll also hear Gabriel Sterling, the chief operating officer, talk about false allegations of election fraud in Georgia and who responded to a cascade of threats to his election team by warning the president to stop, that they were going to kill someone, and you'll hear to wandra wandrea shamas, a former local election worker in Fulton County, Georgia, about how all the lies about the election impacted the lives of real people who run our elections and still do, you'll hear what they experienced when the most powerful man in the world world, the president of the United States, tried to hold on to power after being removed by the American people;

The system was maintained but barely and the system was maintained because the courageous people. The Republicans and Democrats, like the witnesses you will hear today, put their oath to the country and the Constitution above all other considerations, they did their job just like us. We must do ours, thank you, Mr. President, and I yield. I now welcome our first panel of witnesses. Today we are joined by a distinguished Arizona legislator, Rusty Bowers, who is a Republican chairman of the Arizona House Representatives. Mr. Bowers was first elected to the state legislature in 1993 and has served as Speaker since 2019.

Welcome Speaker Bowers Brad rassensberger is the 29th Georgia Secretary of State serving in this position since 2019. As an elected official and Republican Secretary, Rasenberger is responsible for overseeing elections in Georgia and maintaining the state's public records. Welcome Mr. Secretary Gabriel Sterling is the director of operations for the Georgia Secretary of State's office. Sterling was the statewide voting systems implementation manager for the 2020 elections in Georgia, responsible for leading the Secretary of State's response to the coveted pandemic and implementing modernized voting equipment. I will swear to our Witnesses, the witnesses will stand up and raise their right hand. informed a form under penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give is a truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God, thank you please take a seat in the record reflect that the witnesses responded affirmatively speaker Bowers Thank you for Join us today, you are the Speaker of the Arizona House of Representatives and you describe yourself as a conservative Republican.

You campaign for and with President Trump during the 2020 election, is it fair to say you wanted Donald Trump to win a second term? in office, please, yes, sir, thank you, and it is your understanding that President Biden was the winner of the popular vote in Arizona in 2020. Yes, sir, thank you pursuant to section 5c8 of House Resolution 503, The Chairman acknowledges the gentleman from California, Mr. Schiff, for questions. Speaker Bowers thanks you for joining us today before beginning the questions he had prepared for you. I wanted to ask you about a statement that former President Trump issued that I received just before the hearing.

Have you had a chance to review it? statement I my Council called from Arizona and he read it to me yes sir in that statement I will not read it in its entirety from former President Trump He begins by calling him a rhinoceros, a Republican name only he then refers to a conversation in November 2020 in which he states that you told him that the election was rigged and that he had won Arizona to quote the former president during the conversation. He told me the election was rigged and that I won Arizona. in quotes, did you have that conversation with the president? a conversation with the president um, that's certainly not that there were parts that are true, but there are parts that are not, sir, and the part that I read is that false anywhere that anyone has said that I said that the elections were rigged that would not be true and when the former president in his statement today stated that you told him that Arizona won that is also false, that is also false Mr.

Bowers, I understand that after the elections and I do not know if this is the conversation the former president is referring to, but after the election he received a phone call from President Trump and Rudy Giuliani in which they discussed the outcome of the presidential election in Arizona, if you could tell us about that call and if the The former president or Mr. Giuliani brought allegations of election fraud. Thank you. My wife and I had returned from attending our church meetings. It was Sunday and we were still in the driveway. I got a call from a colleague telling me that the White House.

I was trying to get in touch with her and I and she said please if you get a call let's try to take this together immediately. I saw the White House on my Bluetooth was calling, I took the call and they asked me. I guess the operator at the White House would wait for the president, which I did and he, Mr. Giuliani, showed up first and he's nice, then Mr. Trump, President Trump, then President Trump, and we started a conversation and during that conversation we did um. He will ask Mr. Giuliani for evidence of these fraud allegations that he was making on multiple occasions.

Yeah, and when he asked for proof of this Rod, what did he say? He said they did have evidence and I asked him if he has names. For example, we have 200,000 illegal immigrants, a huge number of five or six thousand dead, etc., and I said, do you have their names? Yes, will you give them to me? Yes, the president interrupted and said, give the man what you need. Rudy said: "will and that happened on at least two occasions in that exchange in the conversation, so Mr. Giuliani was claiming on the call that there were hundreds of thousands of peopleundocumented immigrants and thousands of dead people who had supposedly voted in the elections yes and you asked him for evidence of that what I did and did you ever receive did you ever receive that evidence from him during the call after the call or until today?

Never, what was the question during this call? He was making these accusations of fraud, but he had something or A couple of things that they wanted you to do, which I remember, were first that we would argue that we would allow an official committee in the Capitol so that they could hear this evidence and that we could take action on it. From then on and I refused, I said that until that moment the circus, as I called it, the circus had been taking place with many demonstrations both in the accounting center of the Capitol and in other places and I did not want to have that in the house I did not feel that the evidence given in his absence deserved a hearing and I didn't want to be used as a pawn if there was some other need that the Committee hearing would fulfill, so that was the first request we had to hold an official Committee hearing.

And what was your second question? I told him for what purpose, for what purpose, the hearing. He said: Well, we've heard from a high-level official in the Republican legislature that there is a legal theory or a legal capacity in Arizona that can be eliminated. President Biden's electors and replace them and we would like to have a legitimate opportunity through the committee to get to that end and remove him and I said that's something I have and it's totally new to me that I've never heard of. anything like that and he pressed that point and I said look, you're asking me to do something that goes against my oath when I swore to the Constitution to defend it and I also swore to the Constitution and the laws of the State of Arizona and This is totally foreign as an idea or theory to me and I would never do something of such magnitude without in-depth consultation with qualified lawyers and I said: I have some good lawyers and I'm going to give you their names, but I'm being asked to do something against my oath and I will not break my oath and I think that was up to that point during the conversation and I think you heard when we played a clip of Mr.

Giuliani calling out to other state legislators and saying that he was essentially calling us fellow Republicans, did he make a similar appeal to you or did you mention the fact that you shared a similar match, whether on that call or in a subsequent meeting, did you mention that more than once and how would you bring it up? That up he would do it. Aren't we all Republicans here? I think we would have a better reception. I mean, I think you would listen a little more openly to my suggestions that we're all Republicans and this evidence that you asked him for that. would justify this extraordinary step.

I think you said they never presented why you felt that in the absence of that evidence, or with it, what they're asking you to do would violate your oath to the Constitution in the first place, when people in Arizona I think over 40 years ago years the legislature had established the way to elect our officials or electors for the presidential race, once it was given to the people, as in Bush Vigor illustrated by the Supreme Court, it becomes a fundamental right of the people, so As far as I'm concerned, if someone asked me, I would call it apocity, no evidence of any solidity was presented.

The evidence may be hearsay evidence, it is still evidence, but it is still rumors, but it is solid evidence of judicial quality. Whatever I says you have doubts, you deny your oath. I will not do that and on more than one occasion throughout all of this that has been raised and it is a tenet of my faith that the constitution is divinely inspired by my most basic fundamental beliefs. and then, for me to do that because someone has just asked me to is foreign to me. I won't during that conversation, Speaker Bowers, did you ask him if what he was proposing had ever been done before me and what he did?

I said, Well, I'm not familiar with Arizona law or any of the laws, but no, I don't think so, and that was also mentioned in other conversations with both him and John Eastman and other speakers, Bowers. I understand that A week after that call, Mr. Giuliani appeared with others associated with President Trump's effort to overturn the election result at a purported legislative hearing in a hotel ballroom in Phoenix. Was this an official hearing of the state legislature? It wasn't and why it was it's not an actual or official hearing of the legislature, a legislator can hold a group meeting, they can call it a hearing, um, but when they asked me to have an official hearing, we set it up through public notice protocols. , etc., is usually held at the Capitol, but no.

It is not necessary that we be able to authorize an off-campus hearing and in this case I was asked on several occasions to allow a hearing. I denied it but said that you are free to have any meeting you want with the person who requested and finally did it. I think he was a little frustrated that he did it and this meeting was on the same day. I believe Arizona Governor Doug Ducey certified Biden as the winner of the presidential election in Arizona. He met with Mr. Giuliani and his associates while they were in Phoenix some time after that supposed legislative hearing at the hotel.

Yes, I did, sir, and in that meeting, Mr. Giuliani again raised some specific allegation of voter fraud. His initial comments were again the litany of illegal groups of individuals or people. deceased, etc., and he had mentioned that and I was not alone in that meeting, there were others and other members of the Senate, uh, they questioned him aggressively and then I proceeded to question him about the evidence that he was going to bring me, etc., but he mentioned that, yes, and these other legislatures, the legislators were also Republican members of the Senate, they were, yes, sir, and they also pressed him for evidence of these allegations.

They pressed him very hard, two of them, especially, very hard, and at some point, uh, did Mr. Giuliani ask one of the other lawyers on his team to help him with the evidence that he presented. He asked Jenna Ellis, who was sitting to the right of him. One thing was that it was more about whether there was enough evidence or action that we could justify reminding voters, but in that part of the conversation I know he was referring to someone else, but he asked Jenna if we have the proof, Miss Ellis and she said yes and I said I want the names, do you have the names?

You have how they voted, we have all the information, I said, can you tell me that information? I, but we can give it to you and I said then you didn't bring me the evidence that was repeated in different iterations over a period of time. At some point, did one of them make a comment that they had no evidence? but they had a lot of theories, that was Mr. Giuliani and what exactly did he say and how that came about, as I remember. He said we have a lot of theories, we just don't have the evidence and I don't know if that was a mistake or maybe he didn't think about what he said, but myself and others in my group, the three in my group and my lawyer remembered that specifically and Then we laughed about it and you know, asking again.

That phone call preceded this meeting. He wanted the legislature to remove Biden electors and replace them with Trump electors based on these fraud theories. He didn't say it in those exact words, but he did say that Arizona law according to what he understood that that would be allowed and that we needed to go into session to take care of it, which started a discussion again about what I can do legally and what not legally and I cannot go to session in Arizona unilaterally. or under my sole prerogative at this meeting or at any time thereafter, did anyone provide you with evidence of voter fraud sufficient to affect the outcome of the presidential election in Arizona?

No one ever provided me with such evidence. The select committee has uncovered evidence on the course. From our investigation that had stopped the steel protests in state capitals across the country there were people with ties to the party groups involved in the January 6 attack on the United States Capitol. One of those raids took place at the Arizona House of Representatives building, as you can see this previously unreleased video of protesters illegally entering and refusing to leave the building. One of the individuals prominently featured in this video is Jacob Chansley, perhaps better known as Q Anon Shaman.

This writer entered the capital on January 6. He was photographed. He left a threatening note about the diocese on the floor of the United States Senate and was ultimately sentenced to 41 months in prison after pleading guilty to obstruction of an official proceeding. Other protesters who occupied the Arizona House of Representatives building included proud children as men armed with rifles stood by. Right outside the entrance, I understand that these protesters were calling him by his name. President Bowers, is that correct? That's right, President Bowers, did the president call you again at the end of December? Did you, sir, did you tell the president in that second call that you supported him by saying that you voted for him but that you weren't going to do anything illegal for him.

I did, sir, however, his attorney John Eastman called him a few days later, on June 4, 2000 and 2021. And he had a very specific question that would have required you to do exactly what you had already told the president you would not do. something that would violate your oath, it's that right, it's right, it wasn't just me, I had my lawyer and others on the call and what did he do. uh, Dr. Eastman wants me to do, um, that we would actually vote, we would vote to overthrow or I shouldn't say overthrow, that we would decertify the electors and that because we had plenary authority to do so and he cited Article 2, Section one.

I think he is Clause Two and he said that in his opinion that gave us the authority, if there was any. I don't remember him saying sufficient evidence but that there was some call or some strong reason to do it or a justification for doing it. could do that and that he was asking us that his suggestion was that we do it and I said again that I took an oath that doing what you would do would be contrary to my oath, I don't remember if It was in that conversation clearly that we talked more about the oath but I told him what do you want me to do and he said just do it and let the court figure it out and I said you are asking me to do something that has never been done. in history, American history and I'm going to put my state through that without enough evidence and that will be good enough for me to put us through that my state that I swore to defend both in the Constitution. and in law no, sir, he said, well, that's my suggestion would be to just do it and let the courts sort everything out and I didn't use that exact phrase, but that's what I wanted to say and I rejected it and I think that's how it was.

It was near the end of our phone call and again this took place after you recently spoke to President Trump and told him you wouldn't do anything illegal for him. It's true? It wasn't days later, obviously, it was days later, but a A few days had passed but you had told President Trump that you wouldn't do anything illegal for him. I did it both times and you told Dr. Eastman that you didn't think there was legal support to justify what he was asking for, but he still wanted you to do it. and effectively let the courts resolve it.

I was warned not to say things that you think he maybe said, but I do remember that he said that the authority of the legislature was plenary and that you can do it. I said you should know then. that I can't even call the legislature into session without a two-thirds majority vote, we're only 30 plus one. There is no way that could happen, but in your opinion, what I was asking him to do would have violated his oath to the Constitution both the United States Constitution and the constitution of the State of Arizona yes sir, did you also receive a call from U.S.

Rep. Andy Biggs of Arizona on the morning of January 6? I did it and what did Mr. Biggs ask you to do? I believe it was the day the vote was being held for each state to certify or declare elector certification and he asked me if I would sign a letter that had been sent from my state and/or that I would support the decertification of electors and I We said you wouldn't, Mr. President, on December 4, 2020, shortly after your meeting with Richard Giuliani and other allies of President Trump. You issued a statement addressed publicly and cited calls for the legislature to overturn the certified 2020 election results.

The statement is very direct in explaining the stunning request in quotes made by representatives of President Trump cites that the Arizona legislature overturned the certified results of last month's election and delivered the state's Electoral College votes to President Trump in quotes why did you believe, as you wrote in this statement, that the rule of law prohibits you from doing what President Trump and his allies wanted you to do? did,representative, I'm sorry, I should be saying Mr. Chairman of Representative Schiff, there are two sides to the answer, one is what am I allowed to do and what.

Am I prohibited from doing so? We have no legal avenue in either state law or, as far as I know, federal law for us to execute such a request and I am not permitted to step or act beyond my authority if I am not specifically authorized as a legislator. As a legislature, then I cannot act to the point of calling a session. Some say that only a few legislators have plenary authority and that has arrived. It is part of this whole discussion. I am going to call it, but so as not to have authority and be prohibited from acting beyond my authority. in both aspects.

I am not authorized to take such action and that would negate my oath. In his statement he included excerpts from President Ronald Reagan's inaugural address in 1981. The newly inaugurated president told the country. Cite the orderly transfer of authority required in the Constitution is carried out routinely as it has for almost two centuries and few of us stopped to think how unique we really are in the eyes of many in the world. This four-year ceremony that we accept as normal is nothing. less than a miracle, tell us if you would, Mr. President, why did you include President Reagan's words in his public statement?

Mr. President, Representative Schiff, because I have a lot of admiration for Ronald Reagan. I had the opportunity to go to his house with another person. And as I walked around, I had a lot of admiration for him when he pointed out which one it is: I've lived in another country for a period of time and I've visited some countries and during election times, the fact that we allow an election supports an election. and support the elections even in the past when there have been serious doubts about the elections and then move forward without disruption and with the acceptance that we choose to follow the result of the will of the people, that will mean a lot to me and I know it meant a lot to him and that's why we included Speaker Bowers and I want to look even deeper into the fake elector scheme.

Every four years, citizens across the United States go to the polls to elect their president. Under our constitution, when we cast our votes for president we are actually voting to send electors committed to our preferred candidate to the Electoral College in December. Electors in each state They assemble, cast their votes, and send those votes to Washington. There is only one legitimate list of electors from each state. On the sixth day of January, Congress meets in a joint session to count those votes, and the winner of the Electoral College vote becomes in president. In this next segment, you will hear how President Trump and his campaign were directly involved in advancing and coordinating the plot to replace Biden's legitimate electors with fake electors not chosen by the voters, you will hear how this campaign convinced these fake electors to cast and submit their votes via fake certificates that told them their votes would only be used if President Trump won his legal challenges even though the president lost those legal challenges when the courts rejected them as frivolous and meritless, the scheme of fake electors continued at this point, President Trump's own lawyers, the so-called normal team, walked away rather than participate in the plan and his own White House lawyers.

The office said the plan was not legally sound. Let's play the following video produced by the select committee. My name is Casey Lucier. A word of advice to the House life committee during the January 6 attack on the US Capitol on November 18. A lawyer who works with Trump. The campaign named Kenneth Chisbro wrote a memo arguing that the Trump campaign should organize its own electors in swing states where President Trump had lost. The select committee received testimony that people close to President Trump began planning to organize fake electors for Trump in states that Biden won. In the weeks after the election, who remembers being involved in those early Thanksgiving discussions about meeting surrogate electors with Mr.

Giuliani? Several of Mr. Giuliani's associates, Mr. Meadows, members of Congress, although it is difficult to distinguish which members I am. Thinking about whether they were involved during Thanksgiving or whether they are involved as we move into December at the direct request of the president, the RNC helped the campaign coordinate this effort. What did the president say when he called you? He basically turned the call over to Mr. Eastman, who then talked about the importance of the RNC helping the campaign rally these contingent electors in case any of the legal challenges that were underway change the outcome of either the eight.

I think it's more about helping them reach out and bring them together, but I understand that the campaign to take the initiative and we were simply helping them in that role, as President Trump and his supporters continue to lose lawsuits, some campaign lawyers became convinced that calling electors in states Trump lost was no longer appropriate. I just remember answering or calling someone saying, unless we have litigation pending, it's like in these states, I don't think this is appropriate or you know this is not the right thing to do. I don't remember how I phrased it, but I have to do a little bit of back and forth and I think it was with Ken Cheeseborough, um, where I said, okay, you know, and you just chase him like he was out at the time.

I had Josh Finley politely email Mr. Chesbro to say this is your job, you are responsible for Electoral College issues going forward and this was my way of reducing that responsibility to zero. The committee learned that the White House Counsel's Office also found the plan potentially illegal, and to be clear, did you hear the White House Counsel's opinion? The office said that this plan for alternate electors to meet and cast votes for Donald Trump in the states he had lost was not legally sound, yes sir, and who was the chairman of that meeting that you remember, sir, was in our office , it was Mr.

Meadows. Giuliani and the few Giuliani associates, the select committee interviewed several of the individual fake electors, as well as the Trump campaign staff who helped organize the effort, we were just, you know, kind of useful idiots or Rubes, at that moment, you know, a big part of I really feel like it's like the path continued and that was a failure, your failure, the failure, that was formulated as what we have on the table, um, let's do it and now, after of what we have told you today. The select committee's investigation into the conclusion of the campaign staff's professional attorneys squared with Clark Matt Morgan and Josh Finley about their unwillingness to participate in calling for these electors.

How does that contribute to your understanding of these issues? angry, I'm angry because I think in a sense, you know no one really cared. If if people were potentially putting themselves in danger, would you be further away? You absolutely wouldn't have done it. I know the three main lawyers for the campaign that I've talked to in the past that we're leading don't agree um yeah, they told me that this would only count if a court ruled in our favor, so that would have been using our electors um Well, it would have been using our electors in ways that we were not informed about and we would not have supported the documents obtained by the select committee indicating that electors in several states were instructed that they must cast their votes in total secrecy because this plan involved fake voters; those participating in certain states had no way to comply with state election laws, such as where electors were supposed to gather, a group of fake electors even considered hiding overnight to ensure they could access the capital of the state as necessary.

In Michigan, did Norton say who he was working with on this effort to get voters together? He said he was working with the president's campaign. He told me that Michigan Republican electors were planning to gather at the Capitol and hide overnight so they could fulfill the role of casting their vote under the law in the Michigan House and I told him that, knowing certain terms, that was crazy. and inappropriate in one state, the fake electors even asked for a promise that the campaign would pay their legal fees if they were sued or charged with a crime, ultimately the fake electors met on December 14, 2020 in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New Mexico, Nevada and Wisconsin, at the request of the Trump campaign, electors in these battleground states signed documents falsely claiming they were due appointments.

They chose electors from their state and presented them to the National Archives and Vice President Pence in his capacity as president of the Senate. Here's what some of the fake voter certificates look like compared to the real ones, but these ballots had no legal effect on In an email to the select committee, Dr. Eastman told a Trump campaign representative that it did not matter that the electors had not been approved by a state authority. The fact that we have multiple lists of voters demonstrates the uncertainty of either, that should be enough. urged Pence to act boldly and be challenged Documents presented to the select committee show that the Trump campaign took steps to ensure that physical copies of the fake elector's electoral votes from two states were delivered to Washington by January 6.

Text messages exchanged between Republican Party officials. in Wisconsin showed that on January 4, the Trump campaign had someone fly his false election documents to Washington, a member of Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson's staff sent a text message to Vice President Pence's staffer minutes before the At the beginning of the joint session this staff member stated that Senator Johnson wished to personally deliver the false votes of the Michigan and Wisconsin electors to the Vice President, the Vice President's Aid unambiguously ordered them not to deliver the false votes to the Vice President, despite While the lists of false electors were transmitted to Congress and the Executive Branch, the vice president remained firm in his position that his role was to count the legally submitted electoral votes.

Joseph R. Biden Jr, from the state of Delaware, received 306 votes. Florida's Donald J. Trump received 232 votes, which is what he did when the joint session resumed. On January 6, after the attack on the Capitol that we just heard about in that video, an assistant to the White House chief of staff told this committee that the White House Counsel's Office believed that this false elector's plan It was not legally sound, yet Trump's campaign moved forward. Anyway, go ahead with the plan, President Bowers, were you aware that fake electors had gathered in Phoenix on December 14 and intended to cast electoral votes for President Trump?

You weren't when you found out that these electors had met and sent their electoral votes to Washington, what did you do? Think about it, I thought about the book The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight and I thought this is a tragic parody, Mr. Bowers. I understand that yesterday, while flying from Phoenix to Washington, he reflected on some passages from a personal journal you kept December 2020 while all of this was happening with your permission. I wonder if you would be willing to share a particular passage with us. Thank you so much. It's painful to have friends who have been so helpful to me.

Turn on me with such resentment. I may not have correct opinions in the eyes of men or act according to my vision or convictions, but I do not take this current situation lightly, fear

full

y or venge

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y. I do not want to be a winner by cheating I will not play with laws to which I swore allegiance with any artificial desire to divert my deep fundamental desire to follow the will of God as I believe he guided my conscience to accept how else will I approach to him in the desert of life? Knowing that I ask for this guidance only to appear cowardly in defending the course you let me take, it led me to thank you, Mr.

President, those are powerful words, I understand that taking the brave positions that you took after the 2020 elections in defense of Arizona's governing and voter protection law resulted in you and your family being subjected to horrific protests and threats. Can you tell us how this affected you and your family, as well as others in the videos you mentioned that we received? My secretaries would say too much. of 20,000 emails and tens of thousands of voicemails and text messages that saturated our offices and we could not work, at least communicate, but at home, until recently, it is the new pattern or a pattern in our lives to worry about what what will happen inOn Saturdays because various groups come and they have had truckloads of video boards with videos of me proclaiming that I am a pedophile and a pervert and a corrupt and a politician and speakers blaring in my neighborhood and leaving literature on my property but arguing and threatening. with the neighbors and myself um and I don't know if I should name groups, but there was a gentleman who had three bars on his chest and he had a gun and he was threatening my neighbor not with the gun but just verbally when I saw the gun, I knew that I had to get closer and at the same time in some of these we had a daughter who is seriously ill and is upset about what was happening outside and my wife who is a brave person, very, very strong, calm, very strong.

Woman, she was disturbing. This is disturbing. I am Mr. President. I want to thank him for his service to the state of Arizona and the country. Mr. President, at this time I believe it would be appropriate to take a brief recess. I reserve the remainder of my time share request that those in the hearing room remain seated until members have been escorted by Capitol Police and Witnesses out of the room will have a five-minute recess. The president will take a five-minute break after powerful testimony. I'm here with Holly Jackson. and Katie Turr ladies, that was Rusty Bowers, the Arizona Republican House speaker, testifying about how he repeatedly resisted pressure from the president of the United States, from Rudy Giuliani, from Janet Ellis, others on the president held up the committee of steel trying to pressure him into changing. the vote to decertify Biden electors who had been legally elected Cheney Liz Cheney now gives the witness a hug as he walked away, so Lavkin and other members of the committee was so direct, so deliberate that it was a kind of Jimmy figure Stewart speaking before this.

House Committee, if I may remember someone from an old movie, was speaking truth to power when he argued with Donald Trump, he said he didn't have the power. They asked him about a statement from Trump. Adam Schiff asked him about a statement from Trump today, saying that Bowers had at one point told him that the election had been rigged and that Trump had won Arizona and he said that Chip said: Did you have that conversation with the president? I had a conversation. He justified Bowers, but he certainly didn't. He continued speaking. as his testimony was based on how much pressure he was under, even outside his home when his daughter was seriously ill, yes, Katie Turner, I don't even know how to summarize the power of his direct testimony, well, let's repeat what he said there in the end I don't want to be a winner by cheating this is what he wrote in his diary after all this went down again the pattern we've seen so far in these hearings is not a broken record here but I think it's worth repeating that Donald Trump was told that there was no way to decertify the elections within the states that Rusty Bowers could not call a special hearing he was asked what he asked Donald Trump for the evidence that Donald Trump said we are going to obtain I told Jenna Ellis and Rudy Giuliani to get him the evidence that the evidence never came and then we heard about more states, including Arizona, that have fake electors that sent documentation to the federal government saying that they were duly elected electors, duly certified electors and that they were casting the vote on behalf of your state and my question to our legal analyst Hallie is going to be a good one is that a felony is to send a document like that a certified certified document like that that you know is false to the federal government.

I think from what we just heard, in addition to Katie, the point that Andrew raised about Rusty Bowers' testimony there and specifically the strength of his conviction about the Constitution, he also had a real emphasis, I think, on looking to the future. on the idea and you heard Congressman Schiff say that the system held up but barely properly so in other words the bullet was dodged here but what happens next time that's the thread they're leaving hanging here at this point ? I also want to reference the turnout that we heard and these are new pieces of information from specifically members of Congress, for example, people who we know have been hugely supportive of Donald Trump, the former president, his lies about the election, Congressman Andy Biggs, for example, contacting Mr.

Bowers in Arizona, Ron Johnson's assistant trying to get his boss to physically give him this. these fake elector certificates too, then Vice President Mike Pence and Chris Hutchin and Aid at that time to Penn stealing no, don't give him that, right? Some of these new pieces of information that we have allowed me to bring in Ali Vitale because Ali, I wonder if you have any color of what it was like inside the courtroom, particularly in a couple of moments where Mr. Bowers was visibly audibly emotional trying to compose himself before speaking again specifically in regards to his faith, um, and his faith in the Constitution and how this has affected his family on a personal level.

Allied well because those were the two prongs of this hearing, there was a direct thread of violence and threats against these election officials, including Rusty Bowers, that were detailed in detail not only in Arizona, but in places like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Georgia, things that We knew at the time, but hearing people downtown talk about how their kids were home alone and the protesters were outside threatening them, they had to disconnect their phone lines, that was a key piece and then of course the other , which are these fake election strategy lists spelled out in great detail by some of the people who were on the inside, including emails that talked about how that strategy was going to play out in the room.

There were certain moments where people stood at attention and I think overall the room was engaged during Mr. Bowers' testimony, at certain points people like Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy seem to be nodding their heads smiling strongly, almost empathizing with the emotion that he was giving to that testimony and, of course, That was one of the things that the committee had pointed out to us the night before, saying that it was the first time that we were going to hear Speaker Bowers speak in his own words about the pressure campaign and the ways in which he stood firm against it.

However, I also think there are certain breadcrumbs that are going to become incredibly important as we move through these hearings and looking at the role that other members of Congress played here before going into today's hearing, Chairman Benny Thompson said that I would detail in a few weeks those were his words the roles that members of Congress played we have already been told for example that people like Scott Perry asked for pardons that Congressman Biggs who was mentioned there also asked for a pardon that we are now getting a little more information about the role that Senator Ron Johnson could potentially have played.

You were talking right before Hallie about those text messages, so that's going to be one of the key threads that people end up using when we see what this looked like. not just from the state level, but from members of the same body that the committee is a part of here in Congress, so there's a lot of things we can do here and that's just panel one, well, and back to us, I want just bring the Ali panel Chuck Rosenberg Joyce Vance Frank the great Lucy Michael Steele Chuck Rosenberg and the I Want Chuck panel you and others on the panel have faced juries and here the jury is public opinion, you have a Republican official from Arizona who had supported Donald Trump and heard some of his emotional testimony about his faith and how he told the former president and other members of his team that he could not violate his faith and his belief that the constitution was actually divinely ordained.

I heard Rusty Bowers that the constitution is divinely inspired by my The most basic fundamental beliefs for me to do that because someone just asked me is foreign to my being. I won't do it. Chuck, if you were presenting this to a jury. How powerful is this Witness? Oh, your extraordinarily powerful Andrea, you know we have a bias and I think it's a mistake to demonize people that we don't agree with and whatever their party, whatever their affiliation, whatever their politics. I mean, thank God there are people in both parties like Rusty Bowers, with worthy principles, his swearing in meant more to him than pleasing the person in power, I mean, he supports Donald Trump, he voted for him, maybe he would again, but if you're from Arizona, whether or not you're a Republican, whether or not you live in this man's district, whether or not you voted for him or donated. to him, you're lucky to have someone like that running the Arizona House of Representatives again.

He is a man of principles, dignified, thoughtful and very convincing. We don't have to agree with people to admire them and I certainly admire Rusty Bowers, so far. I don't have the audio of the phone call Bowers had with Donald Trump like we have the audio of the phone call. I hope you have that hope. I hope my audio was fine. If not, we do not have the audio. the phone call between Bowers and Donald Trump as if we had the audio of Donald Trump and Brad Raffensberger, but Joyce, this is another example of a direct connection between Donald Trump and an election rant and an official having a conversation about what is possible and what is not possible and that official who says I have to comply with the laws of my state I have to comply with the Constitution if you have evidence of fraudulent votes these dead voters that you say you have if you have evidence that there were illegal immigrants voting send me the names and I will review them.

They never sent him those names. You know, on the first call. Trump says, "Give the man what he needs and he never gets it. Of course, it's possible that Trump could say, 'Well, I was just listening to my lawyers.'" and they told me there was a road in Arizona, a road to continue, but Speaker Bowers is very clear about something he asked: did he tell Trump that there was fraud in Arizona and as you already said, Katie, he says that was not my conversation in other words, Trump is lying. about this, so why would Trump lie about it?

If he truly believed that what they were doing was fair, if he believed that they had won in Arizona and that there was fraud, there would be no need for him to lie about what Speaker Bowers told him. um he said she said there although there is a he said she said he said he said in this case as Chuck points out, however, who are you going to believe in the face to face confrontation here if you're a juror in a courtroom,? You're going to believe Rusty Bowers. I think it's hard for the American people to dismiss this.

I guess the question is whether this will make it to a jury in court. I mean, is the Department of Justice going to go? To act on it, they asked for those transcripts, but I don't think it goes directly to Donald Trump at this point, but the Department of Justice should take intermediate steps and work up the chain, that's the practice in these types of cases, Hallie, frankly , let me. I bring you here as we look toward the next part of this hearing today. This was a quick break. We have seen 10 minute breaks. This is only five or so.

Presumably they will return shortly as we take. a live look in the courtroom that we're going to hear now from the people of Georgia, uh, Brad Raffensberger, Gabe Sterling, the Secretary of State and his deputy, we're also going to hear from Shea Moss, who was the poll worker in Georgia, uh, involved. In I shouldn't say involved, let's look at the center of what some described as a propagated conspiracy theory, basically, a poll worker who didn't actually do anything wrong, but was the subject of threats from those on the far right who believed this theory of the conspiracy over a suitcase full of ballots, so to speak, Frank, as we look toward the next part of this, one of the threads that I imagine the committee will pull has to do with then-Chief of Staff Mark Meadows.

I want to point out we heard from someone very close to Meadows, Cassidy Hutchinson, and if my memory serves me right, I think this is the first time we've seen her on camera in these statements. She is someone who has reportedly spoken at length to the January 6 Select Committee and Mark Meadows. here, um, as Adam Schiff has teased, Frank is likely to see some new evidence related to Meadows and this plot in Georgia, if we look at her involvement there. Frank, I can't help but notice that this is all looking more and more like some sort of criminal enterprise Trump at the head almost an organized crime family kingpin people like Meadows people like Giuliani people like certain members of Congress we've mentioned carrying the ax getting their hands dirty and as we see more and more of that it's going to look more and more like a criminal enterprise to me and in that sense it actually helps us project what accountability might look like because, to make the analogy of the mafia with the prosecutors and investigators, as Joyce alluded to in those cases, we will try to present the case first. in the henchmen, the bosses, theconsole, the captains and then we trust them, either by flipping or some additional evidence developed to get to the Capo himself, so don't be surprised if we see that kind of approach being taken and we don't rule it out. the possibility of those same people being indicted for their role in this certainly first and then later if you ever get to the couple and we have less than a minute before they can be banging the gavel, but Michael Steele when we talk about this metaphor The analogy of comparing the current United States to some type of criminal enterprise is truly surprising to the American people.

I guess in some ways it is, but I think people feel like Donald Trump is a type of man. I mean, he's not. It's amazing that you operate in this space, um, and I think really, to Frank's point, what reaffirms me was Bauer's comment about that quote that we got in this conversation with Giuliani, we have a lot of theories, but we don't have the evidence. So you can. See how all this was coming together and how in the center was Donald Trump and, as you can see, Benny Thompson, the president, Michael and all of us, uh, the president is walking into the room, he's going to hit the gavel and that we are.

The next thing we are going to hear is from Secretary of State Rafsenberger. We've heard a lot about him because we've been mentioning that he's written a book. He has spoken publicly and he has been on television with all of us, but the fact is that he will now testify under oath about what Donald Trump told him and of course the audio tape that infamous tape of him asking for just 11,780 votes to swing the election in Georgia here comes the gavel and Chairman Thompson the committee will be in order President Trump's pressure campaign against state officials existed in all the key battleground states he lost, but the former president had a particular obsession with Georgia.

Here is the president on the afternoon of January 6 after his own attorney general warned him that the claims he is about to hear are patently false. To find those votes, they should definitely find out that just over 11,000 votes is all we need, they let us down from winning Georgia and we're not going to forget it, so we'll turn our attention to the state of Georgia next year. I want to emphasize that our investigation into these issues is still ongoing, as I said at our last hearing. If you have relevant information or documentary evidence to share with the select committee, we appreciate your cooperation, but today we will share some of our findings with you, Secretary Rastenberger. thank you for being here today, he has been a public servant in Georgia since 2015, first as a member of the Georgia House of Representatives and then, since January 2019, as Georgia Secretary of State, a self-described conservative Republican.

It's fair? to say that I wanted President Trump to win the 2020 election, yes, I am Mr. Secretary, many witnesses have told the select committee that Election Day, November 3, 2020, was a largely uneventful day in your home states, despite the challenges of conducting an election during a pandemic. You wrote in The Washington Post that the election was successful, tell us what your impression was of how Election Day had played out in Georgia on Election Day in November, our elections went remarkably smoothly, in fact, we met at the Jima headquarters, that's Georgia's energy emergency. management association meeting place, but we are tracking wait times online and in the afternoon our average wait time was three minutes.

Across the state we are registering for several precincts and it actually came down to two minutes and at the end of the day we felt that we had a successful election from the standpoint of administration and the operation of the election thank you the president recognizes the gentleman from California Mr. Shield thank you Mr. President Secretary Rappensberger Did Joe Biden win the 2020 presidential election in Georgia and by what margin? President Biden won the state of Georgia by approximately 12,000 votes and, Mr. Secretary, as I understand it, your office took several steps to ensure the accuracy of the vote count in Georgia, reviewing the vote count in at least three different ways, these Measures included an automatic recount, a forensic recount An audit, and a complete manual recount of each of the five million votes cast made these efforts, including a recount, literally every vote cast in the state of Georgia confirmed the result.

Yes they did it. We counted the details with the first tabulation that would be scanned and then when we did our manual audit of 100 percent of the five million votes in the state of Georgia, all cast in place, all the absent votes, all were manually recounted and were remarkably close to the first count and then after the election President Trump was certified because he was within the half percent, excuse me, I was able to ask for each count and then we counted them again through the scanners and we got remarkably the same count, three counts , all remarkably close, which showed that President Trump fell short, however, as you will see, the president and his allies began making numerous false accusations of election fraud. false allegations that you and Mr.

Sterling, among others, had to target Mr. Sterling. Thank you also for being here today after the 2020 Election, in addition to your usual duties, I understand that you became a spokesperson to try to combat misinformation about the elections and the danger it was creating for election officials, among others, in a Dec. 1 press conference directed some of his comments directly at President Trump. Let's take a look at what he said that day, Mr. President, it seems like he probably lost the state of Georgia that we're investigating, there's always a chance that he gets it, and you have the right to take the course that you don't have. the ability to do and you need to step up and say this is to stop inspiring people to commit potential lives of violence someone is going to get hurt someone is going to get shot someone is going to be killed and that's not okay, that not right Mr.

Sterling, what prompted you to make these comments, Mr. Schiff, we had had a pre-scheduled press conference that day, as we were in the habit of doing, trying to be as transparent as possible about the elections and the counts that were being done, a little bit after lunch that day, uh, at lunch time. I got a call from Dominion's voting systems project manager who was strangely shocked. She's not the type of person I would assume she would be like. She has a master's degree from MIT, she graduated from the Naval Academy and she was very attentive and pretty.

Unstoppable and she informed me about a young contractor they had and that she had been receiving threats from a video posted by some Q Anon supporters and at that time we were immersed in this type of thing, so we were around. all the time, so I didn't make any note of it other than adding it to the pile of other things we had to deal with and I opened Twitter and scrolled through it and saw the young man's name, it was one tweet in particular. which as a better word was the straw that broke the camel's back um it had the name of a young man it was a very unique name I think the first generation American and said it had his name you committed treason may God have mercy on your soul with a slow spinning GIF of a noose and for lack of a better word I lost it I got angry um my boss was with me at the time Deputy Secretary Jordan Fuchs and she could tell I was angry.

I'm putting on. I tend to turn red. from now on when that happens and that happened at that time and she called Secretary Raffensberger to tell him that we are seeing these types of threats and Gabe thinks we have to say something about it and the secretary said yes and that's what I prompted me to do what I lost my temper, but it seemed necessary at the time because I was getting worse and no. I couldn't tell you why that particular person was the one who put me over the edge, but she did now, after you made this request. to the president, did Donald Trump urge his followers to avoid the use of violence?

As far as I know, we now know that the president was aware of his speech because he tweeted about it that same day. Let's take a look at what the president said in the tweet. Donald Trump claims there was massive voter fraud in Georgia, Mr. Sterling, that was simply false, wasn't it? Yes sir. However, the next day, December 2, President Trump posted a lengthy video again making false claims of voter fraud in Georgia. One look at what he said this time, they found thousands and thousands of votes that were out of control, all against me, in fact, the day after Donald Trump posted that video, now we're talking just two days after the emotional warning you gave.

Someone is going to be murdered President Trump's representatives showed up in Georgia, including Rudy Giuliani, and launched a new conspiracy theory that would take on a life of its own and threaten the lives of several innocent poll workers. This story falsely alleges that at some point during election night poll workers at the State Farm Arena in Atlanta, Georgia kicked out poll watchers after The Observers left. The Story Goes, these workers pulled so-called suitcases of ballots from under a table and ran them through counting machines multiple times, completely without evidence, President Trump and his allies claimed. that these suitcases contained up to 18,000 ballots, all for Joe Biden, none of this was true, but Rudy Giuliani appeared before the Georgia State Senate and played surveillance video from the State Farm Arena falsely claiming to show that this conspiracy was having Here's a sample of what Mr.

Giuliani had to say during that hearing and when you look at what you saw in the video, which to me was a smoking gun, a powerful smoking gun, well, I don't have to be a genius to find out what happened. It doesn't take a genius to realize that those votes are not legitimate votes. Legitimate votes are not put under a table. They don't wait until the opposition is expelled and in the middle of the night they tell them. We would have to be stupid. think that President Trump's campaign amplified Giuliani's false testimony in a tweet that posted the video.

Giuliani also posted his testimony on social media, as can be seen in this tweet. They stole the election Later in this hearing we will hear directly from one of the poll workers in this video about the effect these lies had on her and her family. Mr. Sterling, did investigators in his office review all of the State Farm surveillance tape? Arena on election night, they actually reviewed about 48 hours looking back at the time period that the action was taking place in the um Accounting Center at State Farm Arena. Did the tape actually show depending on what time you want to start because, as mentioned, this conspiracy theory took on a life of its own where they combined a water main break that wasn't a water main break and they kicked out observers on a number of other things, what it actually showed was that Fulton County election workers were involved in the normal processing of ballots, one of the specific things.

One of the things that was very frustrating was the so-called ballot suitcases that were under the table. If you watch the full video, you'll see that these were poll workers who were under the impression that they were going to return home around 10:10. 30. People are putting on their coats, they're putting ballots that are prepared to be scanned into ballot holders that are then sealed with tamper evident seals so you know they're not messing with um and it's interesting. Because you watch the whole thing, there are four screens of the video and as you watch it you can see the election monitors in the corner with the press as they take these ballot carriers and put them under the table.

You see it there. one of the other hidden ones, if you watched the actual tape, was on the outside of the table, right from the camera's ankle, you couldn't see it originally and this goes under no good deed goes unpunished. They told us we were in Jima. As the clerk pointed out and we were below, we were told that it looked like they were closing out the Fulton County count, the clerk expressed some displeasure at that because we wanted everyone to keep counting so we could get to the results and know what it was. It happened, so our elections director called his elections director, who was at another location because it was election day, there were two different locations where the Fulton County office was doing the voting, so he called the driver of the election, Fulton and then he called Ralph Jones, who was at the State Farm Arena and said what the hell are you doing, go ahead and stay while you watch the video, you see him take the phone call while people put things away and get ready to leave, you cannotice it for about 15 to 20 seconds.

He doesn't want to tell these people that they have to stay, he walks over, thinks about it for a second, you see him come back to the corner of a desk and, as if he collapses, he says, okay, we have to keep counting and then you see him take off the coats, take out the ballots and then a secondary thing that you'll see there is that you will have people who are counting the ballots, who will go through a lot, take it away and go through it again. What's going on? There is a standard operating procedure.

If there is a failed scan. If there is a misalignment. If it is not read correctly. These are high-speed, high-capacity scanners, so three or four will go through after a failed scan. You must delete that batch and place it. We reviewed it again and in reviewing the manual count as the clerk pointed out, we showed that if multiple ballots had been scanned without a corresponding physical ballot, their counts would have been much higher than the ballots themselves and in doing the manual count I saw two specific numbers that were met, manual counting brought us to a .1053 percent discount on the total votes cast and a 0.0099 percent margin, which is essentially dead in accuracy.

Most academic studies say that in a manual count you will have between one. and two percent, but because we use devices to mark the ballots where it is very clear what the voter intended, it is much easier for us to force ourselves to do that manual count and prove that none of that was true, now I understand that when you review These tapes and did the analysis that disproved this conspiracy theory, but still had to take a lot of steps to try to make sure the public knew the truth about these accusations. And he held frequent briefings for the press.

Let's take a look at one of those press conferences. Mr. Sterling, what you did on December 7th to make the point you just made today, move on to what I'm going to call disinformation on Monday, it's already out the door, many of you saw the State videotape Farm Arena. I spent hours with our post-certified researchers, WSB's Justin Gray, spent hours with us reviewing this video to explain to people that what they saw, the secret suitcases of magic ballots, were actually ballots that workers had packed into those conveyors. of absentee ballots in plain sight. of the monitors and the press and what's really frustrating is that the president's lawyers had the same videotape, saw the exact same things that the rest of us could see and decided to mislead the state senators and the public about what was in that video.

I'm pretty sure they won't characterize the video if they try to present evidence because that's the kind of thing that could lead to sanctions because it's obviously fake, they knew it wasn't true and they continue to do things like this, Mr. Sterling, despite His office's efforts to combat this misinformation by speaking publicly and through local media could not match the reach of President Trump's platform and the social media megaphone that spreads these false conspiracy theories. What was it like competing with a president who had the biggest bully pulpit? In the world to spread these false claims for lack of a better word, it was frustrating, but many times I felt that our information was being spread, but there was a reluctance from people who needed to believe it to believe it because the president of the United States, to who many admired and respected told them that it was not true despite the facts and I have characterized it at one point as being like a shovel trying to empty the ocean and yes, it was frustrating.

I even know family members that I had. to discuss some of these things and I would show them things and the problem you have is that you are touching people's hearts. I remember there's a specific attorney that we know that we showed you and walked you through this was not true, okay? I understand that this wasn't true, okay, I understand that it wasn't five or six things, but in the end he says. I just know in my heart that they cheated, that's the same thing, so once you get past the heart, the facts don't matter. so much and our job from our point of view is to bring the facts to light do our job tell the truth follow the Constitution follow the law and defend the institutions and the institutions retained let's take a look at what you were competing with this is the old The former president spoke in Georgia on December 5, but it is an overwhelming fraud and again I am going to ask you to look at that very, very powerful and very expensive screen.

Hidden boxes of potential votes are pulled out from under a table, four people below. a cloud of suspicion so if you take the crime of what those Democrat workers were doing and by the way there was no water main break you know they said there was no more that's ten times what I need to win this state tenfold. it's ten times more than that, but it's ten times more because we lost by a very close number that this committee is hearing last Monday we heard from top federal law enforcement officials um from the highest federal law enforcement official. in Atlanta at the time U.S.

Northern District attorney B.J., as well as former Attorney General Bill Barr, both testified that the allegations were thoroughly investigated and determined to be without merit. I did several things, including interviewing witnesses. I listened to the tapes and reviewed the videotape myself and said there was nothing there. Giuliani was wrong and I said this was a suitcase balance and this is what Attorney General Bill Barr had to say about the same allegations. If we look closely at this ourselves, and based on our review, including interviews of Key Witnesses, the Fulton County allegations were baseless, we also have testimony from senior Justice Department officials establishing that they specifically told President Trump that these The allegations had been thoroughly investigated and were completely without merit.

Here is Deputy Attorney General Richard Donahue describing a phone conversation in which he specifically told President Trump that these allegations were false. I did not continue obsessing over the suitcase that the fraudulent Palacio supposedly had and they took the suitcase out from under the table and I said no sir, there is no suitcase, you can watch that video over and over again, there is no suitcase, there is a container with wheels where they can take the ballots regardless. How many On occasion, senior Justice Department officials, including his own attorney general, told the president that these allegations were not true.

President Trump continued to promote these lies and pressure state officials to accept them. On January 2, the president had a long telephone conversation with Secretary Raffensberger before the president's call, although first I want to share some important context, the White House, including the former president's chief of staff, Mark Meadows, called or repeatedly texted the clerk's office about 18 times to establish this column, they were quite persistent, the second chief of Staffmark Meadows took the extraordinary step of showing up at an exclusive audit site in Georgia, where he met with the investigator Secretary Raffensberger's principal, Francis Watson, who was overseeing that audit process.

Behind me is a photograph of that visit, the third the day after the visit he organized to Meadows in Georgia. a call between President Trump and Francis Watson about the call between President Trump and Georgia investigator Francis Watson the former president continued to push the false claim that he had won the state of Georgia, let's listen to that part of the conversation because the people of Georgia are so angry about what happened to me that they didn't know I won one by hundreds of thousands of votes, it wasn't close and in the next clip she told the state law enforcement official that she would be praised if she found the right answer.

I know we will say great ability to check and correct things because everyone knows it is wrong. There's just no way, Mr. Raffensberger. I know he wasn't on this call, but he heard it. President Trump did not win. hundreds of thousands of votes in Georgia, right? Right? I've been traveling the state of Georgia for a year and, simply put, what happened in the fall of 2020 is that 28,000 Georgians skipped the presidential race and yet voted against it in other races and the Republican congressman ended up getting 33,000 more votes than President Trump and that's why President Trump came up short thank you Mr.

Secretary the president on this call doesn't stop here let's listen to another part of the conversation between President Trump and Ms. Watson it's something important for the country, so important that you have no idea and I thank you very much. Anything you can do, Francis, this is the president of the United States calling an investigator who is investigating the election in which he is a candidate and asking him to do everything he can, Mr. Secretary, he made this call to his chief investigator on September 23, 2020. The mild committee received text messages indicating that Mark Meadows wanted to send some of his office's investigators in the White House Words Help a bunch of POTUS stuff, including coins, Maga hats autographed, etc.

White House staff intervened to make sure that didn't happen. It was clear at the time of this call that the former president had his sights set on January 6. Listen to this part when he told Francis Watson about a very important date of errors, which is a very important day. That important date, of course, was the joint session of Congress where George's electoral votes for Joe Biden would be counted in just over a week. After this call to Francis Watson, the president was finally able to speak with you, Secretary Raffetsberger, please note as we discuss this call today that by this time, in early January, the elections in Georgia had already been certified, but perhaps the most Importantly, the president of the United States had already been repeatedly told by his own senior Justice Department officials that the claims he was about to make about massive fraud in Georgia were completely false.

Mr Secretary, the call between you and the Chairman lasted 67 minutes over an hour, obviously we can't hear the full recording here today, although it is available on the select committee website, but we will listen to selected excerpts now so that we can get your ideas. Let's start with the president raising the completely debunked allegations about suitcases of ballots. in an official voter box they were in what appeared to be suitcases or trunks, suitcases, but they were not in the minimum number that could be in the voter boxes because we saw it and they saw it certified, in slow motion, instant replay if you can believe it, but it had slow motion and was magnified many times and the minimum was 18,000 ballots, all for Biden.

These are the allegations made by the Department of Justice, the Attorney General, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and the heads of his office. were false, that's correct, and even more importantly, when BJ Pack resigned as U.S. Attorney for the Northern District, President Trump appointed acting U.S. Attorney for the Northern District, Bobby Christine and Bobby Christine looked into that and subpoenaed HAC. who found nothing and dismissed that case from the beginning, thank you, Mr. Secretary, the president is referring to suitcases or trunks, Mr. Sterling, where were the objects seen in these videos, suitcases or trunks, or were they simply the containers ordinary ones that poll workers use, their standard standing ballot holders that allow for seals to be placed on them to make them tamper-proof and finally the president claims that there were a minimum of 18,000 ballots somehow smuggled in total for Biden.

I suppose, gentlemen, that was also categorically false. You can physically tell who those ballots were for, but secondly, Fulton County for years has been a problem in our state when it comes to elections, so we had a very difficult time during the primary, largely because of greed, so I had put them under a consent decree, the clerk negotiated where we had a monitor on site and his name is Carter Jones and he took note that he had gone from State Farm to the English Street Warehouse to observe the Election Day activities, but before he left At the State Farm Arena, he wrote down how many votes had been counted in each of the machines and when he came back after we found out they were running again, he took note again when they closed and I think the Final number was around 8,900 in total.

The battles were scanned from the time he left until 12:30 or one in the morning, so they are well below 18,000. Let's play the following clip. I heard it was slow, Mr. Secretary, did someone drop a lot of votes there late? at night no, I think the president was referring to some of the counties when they would be loaded, but all the ballots had been accepted and had to be accepted by lawstate before 7 p.m. m., so no additional ballots were accepted after 7 p.m. m., let's play. the next clip in which the president makes claims about so-called dead voters and I think the number in the Pro is close to 5,000 people and they resorted to obituaries, they resorted to all kinds of methods to come to an accurate conclusion.

The number and a minimum is close to about 5,000 voters, so, Secretary, did your office investigate whether those allegations were true? Did 5,000 dead people vote in Georgia? No, it is not exact and in fact in their lawsuits they allege 10,315 people died. We found two. dead people when I wrote my letter to Congress that said January 6 and then we found two more, that is, one, two, three, four people, not four thousand, but only a total of four, not ten thousand, not five thousand . Let's play the next clip and there's nothing. What's wrong is that you know you've recalculated because the two thousand two thirty-six absentee ballots, I mean, are all exact figures that were done by accounting firms, law firms, etc., and even if you cut them out in half, cut them. in half and cutting them in half again is more votes than we need Mr.

Secretary, is there any way you could have legally changed the result in the state of Georgia and somehow explained it as a new calculation? No, numbers are numbers, numbers are not. It's not a lie, we had many accusations and we investigated each one of them. In fact, I challenged my team if we missed anything. They said there were more than 66,000 underage voters. We found out that there was actually no one who could register to vote in Georgia when you are 17 and a half years old you have to be 18 years old by election day we found that every voter said there are two thousand four hundred twenty three unregistered voters there were zero said that There were two thousand fifty-six offenders that we identified as less than 74 or less who were actually still on felony sentencing.

On every allegation we verified, we went down the rabbit trail to make sure our numbers were accurate, so there's no way you could recalculate except by manipulating the numbers. they were the numbers and we couldn't recalculate because we had made sure we had verified every single allegation and we had a lot of investigations, we had almost 300 from the 2020 election. Mr. Secretary, you are trying to push back when the president made these baseless claims , whether it was suitcases or ballots or Biden's votes were counted three times, let's play the clip below. I didn't put that Fleet, we can, we did an audit of that and it was conclusively proven that they were not scanned three times, yes, Mr.

President, we will. send you the WSB link that I don't care about a link I don't need it I have much better you told the president that you would send him a WSB link which I understand as a local television station that had a link without edited video of the State Farm Arena, but at the President was not interested because he said that he had a much better connection, Mr. Secretary, at the time that you were on the call with the President, as we have demonstrated to both the FBI and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. and you showed that these claims are nonsense and you told him about these investigations over the phone, let's hear what President Trump had to say about the state and federal law enforcement officers who conducted the investigations into these false claims, there is no way they could fight, then they're in confidence, or they're dishonest, okay, there's only two answers, dishonesty or incompetence, there's just no way, look, there's no way, but the president didn't stop at implying that law enforcement officers were dishonest or incompetent and went on to suggest that he could be subject to criminal liability for his role in the matter before reproducing that part of the conversation.

I'd like to show you something that the president retweeted a couple of weeks before his call with him. Here is the president retweeting a post from one of his allies. a lawyer who was later sanctioned by a judge in Michigan for making false claims of voter fraud, let's look at that tweet, the tweet read the quote, President Trump actually Donald Trump is a genuinely good man, I bet he's not actually He likes to fire people. He doesn't like to jail people, especially, quote, Republicans. He gave Brian Kemp Georgia and the Georgia Secretary of State every opportunity to get it right.

They refused. They will go to jail soon. So on his call, this was not the first time the president had suggested that you could be criminally liable with that, let's listen to this part of the call. I think you will find that they are destroying the balance because they have to get rid of the ballots because the ballots are not signed, the ballots are corrupt and they are new and they have no stamps and there is a problem with the ballots, but the ballots are corrupt and you will find that they They are, which is totally illegal, it is more illegal for you than for them because you know what they did and you are not going to report it that is what you know is a criminal that is a criminal offense and you know that you cannot allow that to happen That's a big risk for you and Ryan your lawyer That's a big risk Secretary After making a false claim about destroying ballots, the president suggested he might be committing a crime by not accepting his claims of voter fraud and then of suggesting that he might be exposed to a crime, President Trump makes his most explicit request of the call let's play a part of that conversation, so look, all I want to do is this: I just want to find eleven thousand seven hundred and eighty votes, which It's one more that we have because we won the state.

The secretary was the president who was here asking you. exactly what he wanted one more vote than his opponent what he knew is that we didn't have any votes to find that we would continue to look uh we investigated I could have shared the numbers with you there were no votes to find that it was an accurate count that had been certified and as our attorney general said that there was no destruction of the ballots, Mr. Secretary, after making this request, the president returns to the danger of you denying these accusations of fraud, let's listen to that part of the clip and I saw you this morning and you said, well, There was no crime, but I am somewhat dangerous when you talk about no crime.

I think it's very dangerous for you to say that Secretary Ravensberger, you wrote about this in your book and you said a quote that I felt then and they still believed today that this was a threat, others obviously thought so too because some of Trump's most radical supporters They have responded as if it were their duty to carry out this threat, please tell us what your wife says, including your daughter-in-law's experience regarding threats from Trump's most radical supporters long after the election, uh, my email , my cell phone was broken so I was getting texts all over the country and eventually my wife started getting texts and hers usually came through. in sexualized attacks that were disgusting, you have to understand Trish and I met in high school, we've been married for over 40 years and they started pursuing her, I think probably just to put pressure on me, why did you stop walking? and that happened and then some people broke into my daughter-in-law's house and my son passed away and she is a widow and has two children, so we are also very concerned about her safety and Mr.

Secretary, why didn't you do it? You just quit and walked away because you knew we had followed the law and we had followed the Constitution and I think sometimes moments require you to get up and just take the pictures, you're doing your job and that's all we did, you know? we just kept going, we followed the Constitution and at the end of the day, President Trump came up short, but I had to be faithful to the Constitution and that's what I swore I know how to do for the rest of the call, the former president continued to press.

You have to find the remaining votes that would ensure his victory in Georgia. Let's listen a little more. Why wouldn't you want to find the right answer? Brad instead of continuing to say that the numbers are correct. So look, can you and Brad get together tomorrow? we just want the truth, it's simple and everyone will look great if the truth comes out, it's okay it takes a little time but let the truth come out and the truth, the real truth is that I won the less by 400,000 votes, so what? So what are we going to do here?

Friends, I only need 11,000 votes. Tell us. I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break. Four days after the president called. Secretary Rappensenberger was on January 6th. The president whipped up the crowd in front of the ellipse once. again promoting the allegation that Secretary Raffensberger, the president's own attorney general, had told him was false here it is in the ellipse Paul notes that they were physically removed in some cases from the room under the false pretense of a burst pipe , a broken water main, we all walked out, which I now knew was a total lie, then the election officials pulled out Democratic boxes and suitcases of ballots from under a table, everyone saw it on TV, totally fraudulent, and scanned them illegally for almost two hours, without any supervision, tens of thousands of votes, this act coincided with a mysterious vote. dumped up to a hundred thousand votes for Joe Biden almost none for Trump oh that sounds right that was at 1:34 a.m. m.

Mr. Secretary Mr. Sterling I want to thank you for his service to the state of Georgia and Speaker of the Country Bowers in the same way. I want to thank him for his service to the state of Arizona and the country that he has served not only his home states but also our nation and our democracy. President. I thank you in return, Mr. Schiff. I thank the witnesses for joining us today. He now he's fired. foreigner Now I welcome our final witness this afternoon Andrea Shea Moss Ms. Moss worked in a registration and elections department in Fulton County, Georgia, from 2017 to 2022.

In that job, Ms. Moss handled voter applications and absentee ballot applications and also helped process the vote. count for several elections in December 2020 Miss Moss and her mother, Miss Ruby Freeman, became the target of disgusting lies spread by President Trump and his allies as they sought to overturn the election results in Georgia. Miss Moss and her mother, Miss Freeman, are two of the unrecognized people. heroes in this country who do the hard work of keeping our democracy working for all Americans. Miss Moss, welcome, thank you for your service and I thank you for being here today.

Now I will swear an oath to you. Please get up. Thank you. Swear our signature. penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give is a truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God, thank you, please take a seat, let the record show that the witness responded affirmatively, Miss Moss, thank you very much. By being here today, I understand that you are here along with your mother today, would you like to introduce your mother? Hello Mom, Miss Moss, today we will ask you about some of the threats she receives after the 2020 election since I have been a poll worker for over 10 years.

I want to ask you in her decade of service if she has ever experienced threats like these before. Do not be nervous. I understand. And I want to make sure that the record reflects that you I have done this for quite some time and you have never received a threat and your response was no, thank you pursuant to section 5c8 of House Resolution 503 the President recognizes a gentleman from California Mr. Schiff for questions good afternoon Miss Mossa thank you for Being here, I understand that you were an employee of the Fulton County Registration Elections Department for over 10 years and I understand that you love that job.

Please tell us what made you so fond of the work you did abroad. They have always told me. from my grandmother how important it is to vote and how people before me, many older people in my family did not have that right, so what I liked most about my job were the older voters. Younger people could usually do everything from their phone. or go online, but older voters like to call, they like to talk to you, they like to buy my car, they like to know that every election I'm here, and like even college students, a lot of parents trust me to make sure that their child doesn't have to drive home, they'll get an absentee ballot, they can vote and I really found joy in the fact that I like to be the one that, um, you know, if someone can't navigate my page voters or you know he wants a new electoral district. card, they don't have a photocopier or computer or anything like that.

I could mail it to you. I was always excited to send out all the absentee ballots for the elderly and disabled. I even remember driving to a hospital. giving someone your leave request, um, that's what I like the most, so you really enjoyed helping people vote and participate and uh, and that was something, the right toThe vow that your grandmother taught you was beautiful, yes, well, I know the events we are in. here to talk about today it's incredibly difficult to relive your proud service as a poll worker took a dramatic turn the day Rudy Giuliani posted the video of you and your mother counting the ballots on election night, President Trump Rudy Giuliani and others claimed On the basis of this video, you and your mother were somehow involved in a plot to expel observers who were bringing suitcases of fake ballots for Biden into the arena and then running them through the machines multiple times.

None of that was true. Wasn't it anything like that? I'd like to show you some of the statements Rudy Giuliani made at a second hearing before Georgia state legislators a week after Mr. Giuliani and President Trump first circulated that State Farm Arena video clip. I want to warn viewers that these statements are completely false and also deeply disturbing tape that same day of Ruby Freeman and Shea Freeman Moss and another gentleman obviously surreptitiously passing around USB ports as if they had vials of heroin or cocaine. I mean, it's extraordinary, it's obvious to anyone who's a criminal investigator or Prosecutor, they're involved in surreptitious illegal activity again that day and then a week ago and they're still walking around Georgia.

Why should they have been? They should have been interrogated by now. There are workplaces, their houses should have been searched. for evidence of balance evidence of USB ports for evidence of voter fraud that video was of Rudy Giuliani's appearance at a Georgia State Senate hearing on December 10. How did he find out? How did you first find out that Rudy Giuliani, the president's lawyer, was accusing him? and your mother of a crime was at work as always um and the former boss Mr. Jones asked me to come to his office and when I went to his office the former director Mr.

Barron was there and they showed me a video on his computer um , it was like a very short clip of us working at State Farm and there was someone in the video talking um during the video, saying that we were doing things that we weren't supposed to do, just lying through the whole video and That's when I found out for the first time and were there posts on social media that showed you responding to those false claims? Well, when I saw the video, of course, the first thing I said was why, why, why are they doing this.

What's going on? And, you know, I was just told that Trump and his allies were dissatisfied with the outcome of the election and that they were receiving a lot of threats and, um, they were being harassed online and I was asked, you know, if I've been getting something and I need to see my mom and I told them, you know, I was like where have you been getting these threats? I don't think I have any and Mr. Jones told me that they were attacking his uh Facebook and I don't really use Facebook. I have one so I went to the Facebook app and right now I'm kind of panicking because this has never happened to me and my mom is involved and I'm just like her. kid, so I just ask him where the messages are.

All I see is the rates, like how do you get to messages and he said it's another icon on your phone that says Messenger and I went to that icon and it was just a There's a lot of horrible things in there and those horrible things that include threats, yeah , a lot of threats, wishing death on me, telling me you know I'll be in jail with my mother and saying things like: be glad it's 20 20. and not in 1920, mind you, there were a lot of these threats and vile comments of a racist nature many of those races many of them were just hateful yes sir, in one of the videos we just watched Mr.

Giuliani accused you and your mother of passing some kind of USB drive to each other, what happened to your mother in that video? A redhead wasn't just Rudy Giuliani. We heard President Trump make these false accusations repeatedly during his call with Secretary Raffensberger. Let's hear a part of what he had. what to say about you and your mother we had at least at least that's on tape we had it counted very thoroughly 18,000 voters uh having to do with Ruby Friedman who is a vote scammer a professional vote scammer and the scammer Donald Trump attacked you and your mother used her name 18 times on that call 18 times Ms.

Moss, can you describe what you experienced hearing former President Trump attack you and your mother on a call with the Georgia Secretary of State? Well, I felt like it was all my fault. I would never have decided to be a poll worker like I could have done anything else, but that's what I decided to do and now people lie and spread rumors and lies and attack my mother, my only child, going to my grandmother's house , my only grandson, and my son is just um I felt so bad, I felt bad for my mom and I felt horrible for choosing this job and being the one who always wants to help and always be there, never missing an election.

I just felt like it was my fault for putting my family in this situation well it wasn't your fault your mother was kind enough to come talk to us before let's hear her story and her words my name is Ruby Freeman I have always believed that When God says that he will make your name great, but that's not how it was supposed to be. I could never have imagined the events that followed the 2020 presidential election. My entire professional life I was Lady Ruby, my community in Georgia where I was born and lived my entire life knew me as Lady Ruby.

I built my own business around that name, Ruby's Unique Treasures, a pop-up shop catering to ladies with unique fashions. I wore a shirt that proudly proclaimed that I was and am Lady Ruby. I actually had that shirt. He had that shirt of all colors. I wore that shirt on Election Day 2020. I haven't worn it since and will never wear it again. I won't even introduce myself by name anymore. I get nervous when I run into someone I know at the grocery store and they say my name. I worry about who listens to me. I get nervous when I have to give my name for food orders.

I always worry about who is around me. I have lost my name and I have lost my reputation I have lost my sense of security all because a group of people starting with the number 45 and their ally Rudy Giuliani decided to scapegoat me and my daughter Shay for their own efforts. lives about how the presidential election was stolen, Ms. Moss. How did this experience of being attacked by the former president and his allies affect your life? This turned my life upside down. I no longer give out my business card. I do not transfer calls. I don't want anyone to know my name.

I don't want to go anywhere with my mom because she might yell my name in the aisle at the grocery store or something. I don't go to the supermarket at all. I haven't been anywhere. Absolutely. I gained about 60 pounds. I just don't do anything anymore. I don't want to go anywhere. I guess everything I do has affected my life in a major way in every way. All because of lies. For me, doing my job is the same thing I've been doing forever. Your mother. She also told us that committee about how she had to leave her own home for her safety and go into hiding after the FBI told her it wouldn't be safe for her there before January 6th and until the inauguration, let's hear a clip of the story her.

In his own words, around the week of January 6, the FBI informed me that I needed to leave my house for safety, and I left my house for safety at that time, I understood how long you were outside, do you know that you stayed outside your house? For your own safety I stayed away from my house for about two months it was horrible. I felt homeless. I felt like I can't believe. I can't believe this person has caused me and my family so much harm that I have to leave the home I have lived in. there for 21 years and you know I have to have my neighbors take care of me, you know, and I have to leave and stay with someone, it was difficult, it was horrible and your conversation with the FBI about needing to leave your home for your own safety or maybe recommending it, um, if you remember, there was a specific threat that caused that or it was the accumulation of threats that he had received, that caused him to be preparing for January 6th, it was about to come and they did.

They didn't want me to be home because of all the threats and everything I had received, they didn't want me to be there because they were afraid of people breaking into my house and I had a lot of that, so they didn't do it. I don't want it to be there in case something happens. I asked how long I'm going to have to be home. They told me that at least until the inauguration. I understand that once people showed up at your grandmother's house, tell us about that experience. um. I received a call from my Grandma, she is a woman, she is my everything.

I've never heard or seen her cry in my life and um, she called me screaming at the top of her lungs like Shay Shay, oh my god, change scares me. saying there were people at her house and they, you know, knocked on the door and of course she opened it and saw who was there, who it was and they started pushing their way in claiming they were going in to make a citizen's arrest they needed to find us me and my mom knew we were there um and she was just screaming and she didn't know what to do and I wasn't there so you know, I felt so helpless and so horrible for her and she um just screaming, I told her to shut the door. door, you wouldn't open the door for anyone and um, you know, she's a 70-something woman, I won't say a year-old woman and she doesn't like to have restrictions, she wants to answer the door she likes to walk around the door. neighborhood and I had to tell her you can't do that, you have to be sure, you know, she was telling me that at night, people were continually sending pizzas and I went to her house, you know, and they expected her to pay for these large quantities of pizzas and he went through a lot of things he didn't have to and once again it made me feel so horrible on top of the personal impact.

This experience has affected you and your family. One of the things I find most disturbing is how these lies discourage long-time poll workers from continuing to do this important work. Tell us if you would do it with the other poll workers shown at that State Farm. Video of Arena and her supervisors How many are still poll workers in Fulton County? Advisor in that video that's still there and he ended up leaving her position too? Yes, I left Mrs. Mars. I want to thank you for coming to talk to us. and to thank you for your service to our democracy what we just played is a really horrible and frightening display but just a sample of the things that were said about you and your mother fall in the elections I want to tell you that I am very sorry I think we are all favor what you have been through and, tragically, you are not alone.

Other poll workers across the country have also been subjected to lies and threats. No poll worker should be subject to such egregious treatment just for doing their job with his permission. I'd like to give your mother the last word. Let's play the tape. There is no place where the president of the United States is targeting you. The president of the United States is supposed to represent all Americans, not just one. but he targeted me, Mrs. Ruby, small business owner, mother, proud American citizen who stood up to help Fulton County run the election in the middle of the pandemic, thank you Miss Moss, thank you Miss Freeman Doris America now he knows his lady Ruby for her service.

To Fulton County, Georgia, our country and our democracy, Mr. President, I thank you, Mr. Chief, Miss Moss. I want to thank you for sharing with us the very disturbing story of what you and your mother experienced: harassment by poll workers like you simply for doing so. their duty as public servants represents a threat to our Democratic process their testimony is an important contribution to the work of our committee and serves as a reminder to all of us that the safety of local election officials is vital to ensuring that our elections are always free and I just want to thank our witness for joining us today members of the select committee may have additional questions for today's Witness and we ask that you respond promptly in writing to those questions without objection members will have 10 business days to submit statements for the record record, including opening remarks and additional questions for the witness without objection, the president recognizes the gentleman from California Mr.

Schiff for his closing statement for more than 200 years our democracy has been distinguished by the peaceful transfer of power when an American raises his right hand and takes the presidential oath of office transforms from an ordinary citizen to the most powerful person in the world the president this is an amazing pirate The power to acquire it is even more amazing when it is passed peacefully when George Washington resigned the office of The presidency set a precedent that served as a beacon for other nations fighting tyranny as Ronald Reagan described it as something of a miracle in the eyes of the world.

He was absolutely right: other countries use violence to take and keep thepower, but not in the United States is not in the United States When Donald Trump used the power of the presidency to try to stay in office after losing the election to Joe Biden, he broke that sacred, centuries-old pact. Whether his actions were criminal will ultimately be up to others to decide, but what he did was certainly unconstitutional, unpatriotic and fundamentally un-American and when he used the power of his presidency to put enormous pressure on state and local election officials and about his own vice president, he became completely dangerous on January 6. that pressure turned deadly Ruby Freeman said the president is supposed to protect all Americans, not target them, and she's right if the most powerful person in the world can bring the full weight of the presidency to bear on an ordinary citizen and current that is simply doing its job with a lie as big and heavy as a mountain who among us is safe none of us is none of us in city halls and municipal councils in school and electoral boards from Congress to the courts public servants dedicated people are leaving their jobs due to death threats to them and their families This is not who we are should not become Who We Are Our democracy stood because brave people like those you heard today put their oath to the Constitution above their loyalty to a man or a party that the system supported. but barely and the question remains: will it hold again if we are able to communicate something during these hearings?

I hope it is this: we have been blessed beyond measure to live in the world's largest democracy, which is a legacy to be proud of and cherish, but it is not something that should be taken for granted that we have lived in a democracy for over 200 years. years does not mean we will do it tomorrow we must reject violence we must embrace our constitution with the reverence it deserves to take our oath of office and duties As citizens seriously informed by the knowledge of good and evil and armed only with the power of our ideas and Truly, we carried out this venerable experiment in self-government.

Thank you, Mr. President, and I yield without objection. The president recognized Wyoming's Miss Cheney for her closing remarks. Thank you very much, Mr. President, Mrs. Ruby and Shea, thank you for your bravery, thank you for your strength, thank you for being here today. It means a lot to everyone to hear your story, so thank you for that. We have had tremendous testimony today, we have been reminded that we are a nation of laws, and you and President Bowers and Secretary of State Raffensberger, Mr. Sterling, have reminded us that our institutions do not defend themselves. Individuals do that and We were reminded that it takes public servants, it takes people who have committed to our system to defend our system.

We have also been reminded what it means to take an oath before God to the Constitution, what it means to defend the Constitution, and we have been reminded that our Constitution is indeed a divinely inspired document and that is why it has been an honor to spend time with you and with our previous Witnesses here today. To date, more than 30 Witnesses called before this committee have not done what you have done, but have invoked their Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination Roger Stone took the fifth General Michael Flynn took the fifth John Eastman took the fifth others as Steve Bannon and Peter Navarro simply refused to comply with legal subpoenas and have been charged Mark Meadows has hidden behind President Trump's claims of executive privilege and immunity from subpoenas we are now involved in litigation with Mr.

Meadows . The American people in our hearings have heard from Bill Barr, Jeff Rosen, Richard Donahue and many others who stood up and did the right thing and they will listen. There will be more of that testimony soon, but the American people have yet to hear from Trump's former White House lawyer, Pat Cipolloni. Our committee is certain that Donald Trump does not want Mr. Cipolloni to testify here. In fact, our evidence shows that Mr. Cipolloni and his office attempted to do so. Which was right: They tried to stop a number of President Trump's January 6 plans today, and in our upcoming hearings you'll hear testimony from other members of Trump's White House staff explaining what Mr.

Cipolloni said and did, including on January 6, but we believe the American people deserve it. to hear personally from Mr. Cipolloni, he should appear before this committee and we are working to secure testimony from him, thank you, Mr. Chairman, I step back. People respond to the call to public service in very different ways. Some run for public office. Some volunteer to make sure their neighbors can. getting to your polling places some work at polling places to help Election Day run smoothly some research into issues to ensure our elections are secure and accurate, just to name a few, as I mentioned at the beginning of this audience when we talk about our democratic institutions.

We are talking about these people and many others who do these jobs across the country. They represent the backbone of our democracy at the most important moments, when citizens cast their votes and when those votes are counted. We have heard the stories of their bravery. I have earned the thanks of a grateful nation, but for Donald Trump, these Witnesses and others like them were another obstacle in his attempt to cling to power. On Thursday, we'll hear about another part of that plan: his attempt to corrupt the country's top law enforcement agencies. agency to the justice department to support their attempt to overturn the election as we heard today that Donald Trump was deeply involved in the plan to pressure state officials to overturn the election results.

We are here, we will hear on Thursday that Donald Trump was also the driving force behind the effort to corrupt the justice department listen to this clip of former acting attorney general Richard Donahue the president said suppose I do this suppose I replace him Jeff Rosen with him Jeff Clark what are you doing and I said sir, I would resign immediately there is no way I am serving a minute under this guy Jeff Clark, you will hear from Mr. Donahue in person on Thursday as my colleague Melissa Kinzinger presents details on this plan, the president requests that those in the hearing room remain seated until the Capitol.

The police escorted the members out of the room without objection; the committee is next