Therapist Reacts to DEAD POETS SOCIETY with guest Gale Hansen (Charlie Dalton!)

Gale: Robin was Keating. Keating was Robin. And that is what is transmitted. And that was the power of working with him in person, which was transcendent, really. Jono: Keating seeks to inspire these children to live their lives to the fullest and take charge of their future. Keating: What will your verse be? Jono: It's heartbreaking to see his attempts to inspire spiral out of control. There has to be a balance because the rules have to be questioned, the authority has to be questioned. But at the same time, that doesn't mean we simply descend into chaos. Charlie: What's with carpe diem and sucking all the marrow out of life?

Keating: Sucking the marrow of life does not mean choking on the bone. Alan: I'm excited right now, because Robin Williams was such a formative part of my growing up. It's lovely to hear these stories. Keating: Thanks guys. Jono: I guess I'm just asking what each movie file wants to know. Working with Robin Williams. Tell us a little about your experience. Alan: Welcome to Cinetherapy. My name is Alan Seawright. I'm a professional filmmaker who needs therapy. That's... Jono: Jonathan Decker. Licensed

therapist

who loves movies. And he's with us today... Alan: Gale Hansen, the actor who plays Charlie Dalton, my favorite character in Dead Poets Society.

The classic movie. Jono: Nuwanda, me! Alan: It's Nuwanda. Gale. Since acting, you've taken a left turn in your career and have since been a studio executive on many of our favorite movies, including... Jono: Oh... 3:10 to Yuma. Alan: One of my favorites, The Social Network, and a movie that not enough people saw, Paul. Alan: Did you ever see Paul, the alien movie with Simon Pegg? Jono: Yes, he was very funny. Graeme: Are you going to probe us? Paul: Why does everyone always assume that? What am I doing? Am I harvesting farts? How much can I learn from a donkey?

Graeme: Well, I-I... What...?! Jono: Oh, it's a pleasure to have you here, Gale. Gale: Hello guys. Long time observer, first time caller. I love all the episodes I've seen so far. They are simply fantastic. And I love them for doing this. Alan: Thank you very much. Jono: Thank you. Alan: Let's talk about a movie that probably wouldn't be made anymore. Talking about the decline of Western civilization. In Dead Poets Society, I really want to focus on your character. Obviously, there are great arcs for many of the characters in this movie, but, you know, while we've got you, we're talking about Charlie.

Jonathan, I'd like you to look at the themes of conformity versus rebellion, Alan: ...where Charlie goes completely Nuwanda. Jono: Uh-huh. Alan: Is that healthy? Jono: Yes. Alan: Is this what we should strive for? Is there a middle ground? Where do we want to get to that is good for internal coherence, but also for mental health and general well-being? I'm going to stop talking now. That was too much verbal garbage. Jono: Okay. So how do we discover who we are and who we want to be? McAllister: What the hell is going on here? Keating: I don't hear enough tearing.

McAllister: Mr. Keating. Keating: Mr. McAllister. Jono: They've been tearing out the pages of the poetry book. McAllister: I didn't know you were here. Keating: I am. McAllister: Oh, that's right. Excuse me. Jono: Starting the introduction, which has no heart... Keating: Keep going, gentlemen. Jono: ...all brains. Keating: This is a battle, a war. And the victims could be their hearts and souls. Thank you, Mr. Dalton. Alan: Honestly, the only reason I included this clip... Gale, I just want to know, was it you, that Peter Weir, or was it in the script to shove the role into your mouth?

Gale: You know, it was certainly a spur-of-the-moment business, so to speak. You know, they shot each and every one of us to see what our spontaneous reaction would be. And so, you know, I think it came from the impulse to go ahead and follow the instructions to destroy this book. But when the other teacher comes in, don't get caught. What do you do with the evidence? You ate it. Jono: Yeah. And that's what to me about Charlie is that he's anti-authoritarian. And then his teacher fans the flames of it. And for the other students, it's an awakening because they've been so repressed and repressed that it's helping them develop their individuality.

Whereas with Charlie... Alan: For Charlie, it's sharpening the edge of the blade. Jono: Yes. Alan: It was already there. It was already swinging. Jono: It was already there. It's already oscillating. There is a danger that Charlie will receive all of this, because he simply feeds what he already had. And that's the thing: there has to be a balance. Because the rules must be questioned, authority must be questioned. But at the same time, that doesn't mean we simply descend into chaos. Good? And that there needs to be some kind of order. And I saw this movie and Robin Williams' character Jono: it's heartbreaking to see his attempts to inspire get out of control, you know?

Alan: Yes. Jono: For Charlie, he becomes a kind of Lord of the Flies. And I love him. Alan: It's a very fun trip. Jono: This video is sponsored by Day One Journal. Alan: I don't have a Dead Poets Society to bare my soul to, but I do have Day One Journal, which is an app I've used for years to write down my own thoughts and feelings as part of my healing. and therapeutic journey. I've been using it since 2019. Jono: It's good because journaling can be a really helpful therapeutic practice. For example, people going through a challenging life transition, such as a loss, divorce, or addiction recovery, find that journaling is a great way to express emotions, reflect on experiences, and find peace in their own lives. words.

Alan: I've also used many of the premium features. I have a gratitude journal and I actually record video affirmations for myself. That's so sweet! Which sounds really boring when I say it out loud, but it makes me feel good. Jono: No, that's self-love at its finest. Friends, you can get two months of Day One Premium for free using the code CINEMATHERAPY at DayOneApp.com/cinematherapy. I like to use Day One to de-stress at the end of a hard day. And also, I feel like my life is the best I've ever been given and I just keep track of it so I can remember the lessons I've learned and relive memories.

I know any journal can do that, but what Day One adds is that I can do photo and video inserts, and then at the end, if I want, I can print it out and turn it into a book Alan: Dude, that book is so cool. I'd like to order one, but I've only taken terrible photos. If you want to start journaling to help you on your healing journey, like me. Jono: Or relieve stress. Alan: Or organize your artistic ideas, like I should. Jono: Or preserve the memories, see Day One. Go to DayOneApp.com/CinemaTherapy and use the code...

Alan: CINEMATHERAPY Jono: For a two-month free trial of Day One Premium. Alan: That's D-a-y-O-n-e-App.com/CinemaTherapy and see why it's the number one diary app in the entire universe we know. Keating: We don't read or write poetry because it's pretty. We read and write poetry because we are members of the human race, and the human race is full of passion. Alan: This is the thesis of our entire program. Keating: Medicine, law, business, engineering. These are noble activities and necessary to sustain life. But poetry, beauty, romance, love... That's what we're still alive for. To quote Whitman, O me!

Oh life! Of the questions of these recurring, Of the endless trains of the infidels, Of the cities full of fools, Of what use among these, oh my, oh life? Answer. That you are here, that life and identity exist. May the powerful work continue and you may contribute a verse. The powerful work continues and you can contribute a verse. What will your verse be? Alan: Gale: It's all contained in the eyes and behavior of Bobby and Ethan. All. Alan: There is something special about sitting in a room full of strangers and having a shared emotional experience, while 30-foot-tall Robin Williams exposes the beauty of the universe.

Alan: ...and all this, we know now, Titan. actors... Jono: Yes. Alan: ...because young men and boys just absorb it and to feel that sensation in a giant close-up of a face is... Alan: There's something special about it. Jono: Yeah. Gale: You look at Robin in that scene, and Robin was Keating, Keating was Robin. And that is what is transmitted. And that was the power of working with him in person, which was, um, transcendent, really. Jono: I guess I'm just asking what each movie file wants to know. Working with Robin Williams. Tell us a little about your experience.

Gale: He's just an amazing, sweet, generous, inclusive human being, which was amazing. The first time we met, he snuck up behind me and whispered, behind me, and said, Yeah, we have a lot in common. And I turned around. I thought: We have nothing! And he said... He said: No. I studied with John Houseman and you studied with Sandy Meisner. And at that moment... And that was what was happening with him. He found something that was deep inside you, inside each of us, to connect with and inspire a relationship, right? That was to discover how we uniquely relate to each other, and the wisdom of being able to do that, deliberately or instinctively, as a creative artist, meant that from that moment on, no matter what was going on, I saw it and dealt with it with that connection.

Off camera, on camera, it didn't matter. From then on, it was a beautiful, benign, emotional manipulation of another actor. No, because that's acting. Alan: That's what it is. It is exactly what it is. Gale: Yes, but it's benign. And it is with mutual consent. And he did it so effectively with each of us that acting with him and living sincerely moment by moment became effortless. The inclusive nature of it. It made you want to follow him like a piper. Absolutely. You know, you just wanted to be with him. You wanted to please him. Alan: I know I can speak for you on this.

Robin Williams was a hugely formative part of my growing up. In this movie, obviously, there was a whole series of... Alan: He made a lot of family movies. Jono: Yes. Alan: Just when we were at the age where we watched family movies with our family. Jono: Hook, Mrs. Doubtfire, etc... Yes. Jumanji. Alan: Aladdin, Jumanji, he was a big part of my life. A lot of my humor is based on... I found out that he stood up, which was completely unfamiliar, and that was a big teaching moment for me when I was ten, saying, "Wow, you can." Use the F word and make it funny.

Um, I'm getting emotional right now because... He was very important to me and I never even met him. So, you know, it's lovely to hear these stories. Jono: Charlie has been in this stuffy school with people who are too crowded. And finally, here's a teacher talking about who Charlie is. I don't know if Charlie was like that before, but something definitely awakens in him: "This is who I am." This is what I want to be. Keating: Why do I stay here? Any? Charlie: To feel taller? Keating: No. Thanks for playing, Mr. Dalton. I get up on my desk to remind myself that we must constantly look at things in a different way.

Look, the world looks very different from up here. You do not believe me? Come see for yourself. Come on. Jono: Charlie is the first to stand up. Alan: Yes. Keating: Just when you think you know something, you have to look at it differently. Even if it seems silly or wrong, you should try it. Now, when you read, don't just consider what the author thinks. Consider what you think. Guys, you must strive to find your own voice. Because the longer you wait to get started, the less likely you are to find it. Thoreau said: Most men lead lives of quiet desperation.

Don't resign yourself to that. Escape. Don't go off the cliff like lemmings. Look around. Jono: Talking about identity formation and discovering who you are and what you want out of life. It's like figuring out what you want to eat, Jono: and you can try different things until you say: Oh, that's it. Alan: Right. Jono: And you can do that with perspectives. That's why reading is so important. That's why it's so important to expose yourself to different ways of thinking, different minds, different experiences. Because how do you know what's right for you unless you change? And so Keating encourages everyone to change their perspective, in this case, to literally see the classroom from a different angle because they're so used to just sitting and looking up, and it's just...

And a lot of the camera is your view looking up. And then to go up to the desktop, it's the same space, but it's completely different, right? And how crucial that is to discovering who we are. Gale: Oh, 100%, like you said, you know, we were always looking up, you know, and an influential adult would invite us to say, Come see it from my point of view. You know, it's also an invitation to say that between you being 16 and me, your perspective is going to change, and I encourage you to be patient to try different things, to learn who you are eventually. be.

Jono: When you talk about Gale, Robin sees something to connect with, with every actor, every young actor, and he knows them. To me, that's Robin Williams, but it's also what a great teacher does. So he's being Keating, like... Keating knew all the names of all those kids, and he cared about them enough to get involved in their lives. And from what you say, heHe did that, you know? I mean, the adult characters repeat several times throughout the movie that they can think when they're older, you know, they can... Alan: No. We don't want them to think now, maybe in college.

Jono: Yes, they can make decisions when they are older and they can explore who they are when they are older. Right now they need to adapt because years and years and decades and hundreds of years of tradition have established that this is the best path forward for them: prepare them. And many of them don't question anything until Keating. Gale: The best path for whom? So that? Jono: Yeah. Gale: You know, then someone like Keating comes along and says, I've been where you are and now I'm here. And everything they tell you, for the most part, is to direct you toward something that may not be your destiny.

And the problem is that you don't have enough information or experience to tell the difference. And that's why I'm here to be a beacon to say: be patient with yourself, right? And things will change. And even after college there will come a time when you discover your true self and your true destiny. Jono: That's why I think the movie still resonates and is applicable, because in today's climate it would be easy to say: Well, yes, we love Robin Williams, but this is a movie about a group of young white men in the '40s and '50s. , so who cares anymore?

But if you get to what you're talking about, they're on the cusp of a world that's changing radically, and their educators are trying to train them to just carry the flag forward, just carry things on as before, and resist change, resist any different way of thinking and just sticking to tradition, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And Keating says: Carpe diem. Seize the day. Open your mind. Good? And discover what you believe in, who you are and what you want. And that's why it remains such a powerful story for everyone, because there will always be someone telling you what to think, how to think, what to do, and who to be.

Instead of telling how to think critically in order to weigh, is this a moral? Is this ethical? Is this a good decision that will support me psychologically, emotionally, and relationally throughout my life? Or is it something where I just do what I've been taught to do? Jono: And that's why I think it's still such a powerful story for everyone. Gale: Right. Jono: And this is where we'll see Charlie, because he's been listening to everything Keating tells him. This is a really powerful moment in history for me, as someone who seeks in counseling to inspire people to open their minds and make positive changes, it's that sometimes I give advice or say things, but once it comes out of my mouth , no I have no control over how people apply or interpret it.

Good? And Charlie is going to say: Yes, progress. If change. And as Keating says: Come on... Yes, but let's do it wisely over time and honor the institutions around us even as we push them forward. Charlie is just going to say, let's burn it all down and do something different. Nolan: A profane and unauthorized article appeared in this week's edition of Welton's Honor. Instead of spending my valuable time uncovering the culprits... ...and let me assure you that I will find them... ...I ask all students who know something about this article to come forward. here and now.

Whoever is guilty, this is your only chance to avoid expulsion from this school. Charlie: Welton Academy. Hello? Yes he is. Only a moment. Mr. Nolan, it's for you. He is God. He says we should have girls at Welton. Jono: Let the girls go to school. Alan: Alan: I gotta tell you, man, my entire sense of sarcasm was based on that scene for a long time. Nolan: If you think, Mr. Dalton, that he's the first one to try to get you expelled from this school, think again. Others have had similar ideas and failed. As sure as you will fail.

Assume the position. Jono: So they beat him brutally, but we won't show it here on YouTube. But it's a miserable thing to see. And everyone thinks he ratted them out. Who are the

dead

poets

. Because who is going to suffer that and not break? Not only physically, but also psychologically, especially when he was a teenager. Neil: Did they kick you out? Charlie: No. Neil: So what happened? Charlie: I must turn everyone in, apologize to the school and everyone will be forgiven. Neil: So what are you going to do? Charlie! Charlie: Damn, Neil. The name is Nuwanda.

Jono: For those who haven't seen the movie, and you really need to see it, Nuwanda is the code name for Charlie's Dead Poet's Society. Jono: This is basically resistance, right? Alan: Yes. Jono: And that's the name of their resistance. He's basically saying: I'm not going to rat them out. Alan: I think it goes beyond that, I don't know, Gale, I would love for you to talk about this, but it seemed to me that he is breaking free not only from Welton Academy, but he is taking Keating's advice and breaking free from everything that

society

expects of him, Alan: ...including the name his parents gave him.

Jono: Yes. Alan: It's just that this isn't what I chose. And now I choose, and I choose Nuwanda, and I will be Nuwanda, it is always the reading that I read. Gale: Oh, 100%. You know, someone influential is giving you permission, right? Uh, go all the way and give you the philosophy, so to speak, and then take that little leap. Yes, but we all... We're doing this anonymously, invisibly. If we are really doing this, right? The reality of doing leads to the reality of being. Let's just... say this out loud, you know? And the first one to jump takes everyone with him.

I'm going to force these guys to come out with me, you know, and then the world will deal with us. But you are misinformed because you don't have enough aggregate experience to understand the risk. Again, this is a lack of prefrontal cortex at that point. Good? What ends up happening is that when you present yourself as the highest nail, you get the hammer. Because that's how they beat us into submission to make us keep repressing and repressing ourselves. Jono: Yeah. Well, and what I really like about Charlie in that scene is that he jumps up and takes everyone with him, but he doesn't really count the cost.

Once the cost is evident before him, he turns around and says: Well, I was the one who jumped. Jono: None of these guys wanted to jump with me, so I'm not going to take them down with me. Gale: Right. Jono: I thought, okay, we'll take a stand together and change things together and then we'll be grateful. But no, these are serious consequences. And I am consenting to this because I made the decision. But I'm not going to force anyone to do it. And as for Keating sending these ideas out into the world with these kids, but having no control over what the kids do with them, Keating will try to correct that in the most Keating way possible, Jono: ...which is not giving up what he told the children, but simply to urge a little more wisdom on them.

Alan: Yes. Charlie: Crunch. Creak. "Assume the position, Mr. Dalton." Keating: Okay, gentlemen. Charlie: Mr. Keating. Keating: Mr. Dalton. That was a pretty dumb trick you pulled today. Charlie: Are you on Mr. Nolan's side? What's with carpe diem and sucking all the marrow out of life and all that? Keating: Sucking the marrow of life does not mean choking on the bone. Surely there is a time to dare. And there is a time for caution. And the wise man understands what is needed. Charlie: But I thought you'd like that. Keating: No. Getting kicked out of school isn't bold to me, it's stupid.

Because you will miss some golden opportunities. Charlie: Yeah. Like what? Keating: Like, at least, the opportunity to attend my classes. Got it, Ace? Charlie: Yes, yes, Captain. Keating: Keep your head together. That applies to all of you. Guys: Yes, Captain. Keating: Phone call from God... If it had been collect, it would have been bold. Gale: What I love about that scene, you know, was very much the convergence of Robin with Keating, Keating with Robin, going in there knowing that he was guilty of a certain amount of, Gale: ...you know. , inspiring this child to act. Alan: Yeah.

Gale: And like you said, not knowing how he was going to act, but the way Robin walks in, a slight tone of, you know, excuse me, but this is something he has to do for the greater good of saving this child of himself. But if you look at it and feel it and listen to it, there is as much empathy in Robin as there is in Keating, and Keating towards Charlie, to go, I have to teach you that if you do this the wrong way and you fall, break, you will be broken. Gale: But if you do this the right way and you fall, you'll bounce back.

Jono: Yeah. Gale: And it's very important to, you know, help a mind, you know, grow from an adolescent to an adult. Jono: Because when you're a teenager you think you're invincible. And that's physically, socially and legally and all that. Alan: Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yes. To your point about Robin's performance and the writing in that scene and also a big credit to your performance. It is a very difficult line to walk. Here's an angry kid who's just been slapped, physically slapped for doing what he thinks is right, and the twist to humor where he says, I'm not going to get to this kid.

I'm not getting to this kid. I'm not getting to this kid. I can turn it into a joke and make it both self-deprecating and self-aggrandizing. And that's what this kid will get. Jono: Yes, yes. Gale: That's really how he says: Don't do it. Okay, do it. But don't do it like that. Gale: Learn to do it in a very subversive way. The way he does it. Alan: Yes. Jono: Yes. Well, and Charlie is used to being scolded for misbehaving. And then the moment he smells, Not you too, Keating, and Keating, he's like, Oh, I'm going to turn.

And this is really seen throughout the film. I have a feeling that Keating, when he was young, was also the class clown. So when Charlie does something, instead of getting angry, berating him, or disrespecting him, Keating sometimes acknowledges it with a joke towards Charlie, and then Keating goes back to the path he was on. Keating: Why does the writer use these lines? Charlie: Because he's in a hurry. Keating: No, ding! Thanks for playing anyway. Alan: He knows. Jono: Yes, he knows. Jono: And then Charlie, instead of feeling like he's okay, I'm dealing with a resentful, moody adult, I'm dealing with someone who understands me, but he also has a job to do, and I respect that.

It's like in anime where someone, like Dragon Ball Z, is channeling energy towards you and you catch it and then send it back to them. Jono: And Keating... Yeah, he's brilliant. Gale: Right. Jono: And I look at this, and this is the crux of Charlie's arc, which you had a big hand in creating how he actually lands, is that he needs guidance. Yes. Push against the system. Yes. Drive change and growth. Yes. Explore bold new ideas instead of getting stuck. But be smart about it. And don't be arrogant or stubborn. For example, knowing when to be brave and push, and knowing when to be smart and bide your time.

And also knowing when, well, actually, this institution or that tradition exists for a legitimate reason, because it's a good thing and it works, you know? But you have to have the ability to reason and think about it. And I see that as Keating's legacy to Charlie. And when Charlie towards the end refuses to snitch on anyone, Jono: ...and he refuses to snitch on Keating, who is the only one. Alan: Right. Jono: The others are deeply embarrassed and apologize. And the "Oh, captain, my captain" scene is his way of making amends and showing respect. But Charlie is the one who says, "I'm not going to betray you." You changed my life.

And that's beautiful and powerful, and you absolutely nail it. So I take my hat off to you as if you haven't received enough praise for this decades-old performance. But maybe it's time for a new light to shine on this and for the new generation to discover it. Well done, Gale, and thanks for joining us. Gale: Oh, thanks guys. Alan: So, until next time. Jono: Carpe... Carpe diem. Alan: Damn it, Neil! It's Nuwanda. Gale: It's God. He wants you to watch Cinema Therapy. Internet Dads: And... watch movies. Alan: We want to thank our sponsors for supporting this show and getting a much longer version of this episode with Gale Hansen.

Clients like... Jono: Yuna Katy. Alan: Little Miss Tea Bear. Jono: Fran Lolacono. Alan: JimmyDanielle, that's a word. Jono: And Molly Souede. Jono: Thanks for... Alan: Yes, that's the name. Jono: Thank you for... Thank you for supporting us. And, um, and for enjoying our Patreon. We love you. Bye bye.