The War on Wheat - the fifth estate

"a madness" greater than the Salem witch trials or the "red scare fearmongering." Her nutritional advice makes "bleeding with leeches" or "frontal lobotomies" seem quaint. When I really committed... Mark: Despite selling millions of books and winning millions of converts, the anti-

wheat

evangelist insists the battle is just beginning. Do you think you are now in the process of winning the war? You know, it's more like the war on terrorism. It is not something that has a discrete beginning and end. It will be a continuous process. I think I'm part of the conversation that's driving that. You know, I feel bad for those people.

They're just trying to do their job. I don't think they're bad people, any more than the tobacco executives of the 1960s and '70s, you know, who in congressional testimony said, you know, well, I did it because I needed to pay my mortgage and my son's tuition. . . They are just good people trying to do their jobs. I don't think... Mark: But do you equate someone who grows

wheat

or sells wheat products with people who sell cigarettes? I would if it becomes increasingly clear that these are things that humans should never have eaten in the first place.

Mark: One of his biggest claims is that wheat has killed more people than all wars combined. Do you agree with that? Yes. You know, we can't be very precise with the numbers, but think about it, how much diabetes, obesity, autoimmune diseases, ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease... I could go on. We're talking hundreds of millions of people, or more, over the years. Mark: Okay, let's talk about a real person: me. So I'm a wheat consumer. I don't consume excessively. I have a healthy diet. I don't have any of these health problems. Why not? Why am I healthy if I eat wheat?

There will be a lot of individual variation. There are people, there is the occasional person, Mark, who escapes all intents and purposes for a lifetime, but they are very rare. Much more common is this, someone thinks they are escaping from the process, from the problems, but they are not aware of the problems or they are slowly developing beneath the surface of perception, making it very difficult to connect cause/effect. Mark: But wait. Their entire war is about cause and effect. Is he giving us a message that hurts us or helps us? His critics will say, at best, that he is selling hope; at worst, he is spreading misinformation and profiting from it.

How do you respond to that? Oh, the same way I would respond to his arguments. For starters, they misinterpreted the data. I think they are the ones who have not analyzed all the evidence. Mark: Have you ever wondered, looked up and thought, what if I'm wrong? I did until about three years ago, because I have the wonderful benefit of watching it unfold. If I did this on ten people and it worked on all ten, that would be interesting. A hundred times, that gets really interesting. A thousand times, wow, maybe we're right. Ten thousand, a hundred thousand times, over and over again, you see success unfold.

Experience would suggest that we have stumbled upon something that is incredibly effective, but goes against all traditional notions of nutrition. Mark: Wheat Belly is packed with anecdotes, stories of miraculous weight loss, and transformative health changes. So we asked Dr. Davis if any scientists or medical associations have endorsed his "grain-free lifestyle." He said no. Researchers will tell you that in the pyramid of evidence, anecdotes are not only at the bottom, they are in the basement. It's like a rumor. Does an accumulation of anecdotes really equal science? No, absolutely not. So I try to make it as clean as possible.

That is, anecdotes of human interest are provided because they are fun to read. People want to hear about people like them, but if I wrote a book just about science, which, by the way, I would love to do, but it's sad to say, most of the public wouldn't read it. (♪♪) Mark: So Wheat Belly is just an entertaining story carefully crafted to sell books? And if so, what about the millions of people who believe in the gospel according to Dr. Davis? So are we digging deeper? Yes. We have three different types of burgers here. Mark: People like Rachael and Rachel.

People who are so inspired by what they read make dramatic changes in what they eat. Mark: That's good. There is a lot of science out there that challenges the science that William Davis refers to. Correct. Mark: Are you skeptical about those studies? Absolutely. Who funds the studies that say processed and highly processed wheat is good for your health, right? I'm skeptical of people who post things and are making money from it. I'm skeptical of anyone who... Mark: But isn't William Davis doing that? Absolutely, but people aren't. If people are going to start following or eliminating gluten, I don't think people's situation is going to get worse because of it.

Mark: I think the big issue at the end of the day for a lot of us, all of us, no matter where we stand on it, is trust. Yes. Mark: Who do you trust at the end of the day? Your body. Yes. I think at the end of the day, it's just about trusting your gut and what makes you feel best. (♪♪) Mark: Even though the vast majority of scientists and health organizations don't support much of what Dr. Davis says, more and more people are abandoning wheat. They say they do it because it makes them feel better.

And perhaps that will be the decisive factor in the war on wheat. (♪♪) Mark: You may not agree with everyone or everything you heard on tonight's show. That's why we encourage you to visit our website and add your voice to the debate. You will also find much more information and scientific studies that you may want to read. It can also help you decide which side of the war you are on. Stay with us, The Fifth Estate will return. (♪♪)