The EFI Conversion Debacle - An Overcomplicated, Finicky, Failure Prone Solution To A Simple Problem

Look, I'm sitting in my old Boomer rocking chair, where do I have thick-rimmed reading glasses? And I'm going to ramble for a while. Okay, so there's an old country saying and by old country I mean for me it's In New York City, that's where I grew up and the other saying was "you never hit a man when he's down, you kick him." , it's much easier." I didn't make this stuff up, this is fine and what I'm talking about is uh. The

problem

s my friends at DD Speed ​​Shop had with their Holley sniper set up their Holly sniper setup, so when Danielle's boyfriend first told me about the plan, they were going to set this up for a Power Tour and continue from there, listen.

This is just a bad idea, right? Don't take my word for it, just Google Tally Sniper and I don't mean to upset Holly specifically, but this is what they were using. Google Holly Sniper Reliability Issues. It's crazy at least half of the systems. that come out never work properly out of the box or fail within a short period of time and when they fail, you're stuck wherever that thing stops working, you get towed, you have to tow it to a shop. I have to get them professionally, we have a troubleshooter, they have to get the parts before you can move forward.

These kinds of things require the goal of dealing with these older cars and older analog technology and having fun with them that way. it just takes all of that away, makes it a liability when it stops working, you have no recourse, you get towed and now you have a

problem

, especially when you're a couple thousand miles from home, so, uh, I broke their skills , we went back and forth in the comments and I made a couple of short Fastener chops videos and they finally gave up and now I guess I'm not at all happy about my friend's

failure

.

So I wanted it to work. he wanted the new technology to work, he likes this stuff and I can relate to that because unlike many of you who only know me through this channel, you know that at one time I was the biggest proponent of electronic management systems motor and I worked with them until around 2010 or so, and then things had gone too far, so it goes back to when I was a kid, I was learning to be a mechanic. 12 13 14 years old, it is in the early years. In the '70s, the older guys, the mechanics, I would stay and help them and try to learn from you.

He used to say: I remember this very clearly. They would say they had to make these things, these black boxes so you can open them. You can open the hood but you won't be able to work on anything and it finally got sealed with it and in my mind it was like the most absurd thing. I thought no, I know we are mechanics, we are teachers. In all mechanical things there is nothing we can't work on and back then they meant the

simple

st things like a Ford Dora Spark or a Chrysler ECU, right, and they were like the

simple

st things in the world, but for They were a black box. and you know they were right because it finally got to the point where this stuff was no longer easy to use, it was no longer just a simple Plug and Play type deal, easy to diagnose, troubleshoot, replaced the part, now it went too far and at the beginning.

In the 2000s, that's when, in my opinion, everything turned upside down and went from just basic engine management systems to incorporating every aspect of the car into this engine management system and it got to the point where you couldn't change anything. radio anymore you couldn't you couldn't change the size of the tires you couldn't you couldn't just put a new tire on one corner of the car because it would ruin everything and then the computer would melt down the can bus systems you know, it was just a step too far and that was around 19 around 2010 and Isis at that point I thought, you know what those guys were right about, this was getting to the point where it's not viable, it's not useful, it's not going to be fun to work with that stuff in the future, it's going to be more headache than it's worth, and that's when I say, you know what I'm going to go back to the basics and carburetors, and that's where That's where we've been with this channel since we started it and that's how you know me, but again, as you say, I was the biggest proponent of EFI systems when they started to evolve and I'm going to read you something.

I did it. I did a drag test in 1986. I worked for Cars Illustrated magazine and I did a drag test in a T-Type turbo with intercooler and we had the first 13 second time slope of one of these cars as a 1385. and uh, I wrote the Drake. I wrote this direct test, it was called Buick with balls and since I was 24 years old in 1986. and I just wanted, I want to show you where it was until about like I said 2010. Okay, okay, the machine itself is a kind of paradox: the body and chassis are an outdated design, an overweight dinosaur by today's Detroit standards.

Remember 1986, some would go so far as to call it primitive, on the other hand, technically the machine is. a piece of the future every engine function is totally a Star Wars thing Total computer control this is the machine that opens the door to the next generation of hot rodders it sure confuses even scares many of us primitive people, we are the guys who have always thought of machines in terms of cubic inches, big carbs, big cams and the mentality of too much is not enough, that's great, we wouldn't have it any other way, nor are we uncomfortable with the idea that printed circuits control things. which since the beginning of the automotive era have always been driven by mechanical connection, will not be so for the next generation of speed freaks, yes, they are now going to primary school, but the computer is already part of their lives. with computer chips and altered memories in 10 years it will be as natural as changing the points and Jenning in the secondaries, maybe that's what the Regal turbo has, it's a tough take on the future wrapped in a package we've all grown up with and correct. after that, right after that, I got into the whole Mustang five liter thing and the Eek four and it was and like I said, I was a mechanic and I followed the evolution of these systems until they came to my Opinion skips the shark, so in my opinion what is the problem with a simple EFI

conversion

and what is the difference between a factory EFI system and an aftermarket EFI system?

Please note that I have two Jeeps, one of them is my daily driver. They have factory EFI systems. Both Jeeps have over 200,000 miles. Both work with their original components from original systems and work perfectly. Why don't I have a problem with them or any of these others like I said? It goes back to the original intent of electronic engine management systems, when it was just engine management, the manufacturers, the automakers, spent a lot of time and resources making these systems foolproof, idiot-proof, Proof of circumstances, they have an army of engineers, well-paid engineers, brilliant people who test these systems. every possible negative scenario because remember from the manufacturer that these things have to last seven seventy thousand miles and have no problems, so they test these systems in every way imaginable to make sure they are foolproof and idiot proof, they are tested in extreme heat I don't even know what it is today but that was the emissions warranty they had to wait for so that's what they built and those systems are great now the aftermarket systems are modeled after the body injection systems The throttle position sensors use the same cold and temperature sensors that use oxygen sensors, so you would think well what the problem would be and the problem is somewhere, it's like a missing link between the basic parts and the software, they are too sensitive.

They're too picky and the parts manufacturers like Holly or Phytek or any of these people that make this stuff don't have the resources to perfect these systems and make them as idiot-proof as the factories did, so there's a lot of

failure

rate or a huge disappointment rate because ultimately these systems don't work as well as a well-chosen carburetor, a well-chosen carburetor, they don't work as well as a carburetor, they don't get the same fuel mileage as a carburetor. well selected. It seems to me that the only market they were really after was the only thing they were really after, and again, don't get me wrong.

I'm not talking about complete career systems. I'm talking about the ones that are marketed to just a regular car enthusiast who just wants when they go out to their car they want to turn the keys, start and start it, it seems to me that what they did was throw the baby out with the bathwater because it doesn't have nothing bad. the carburetor the carburetor has not changed the atmosphere has not changed the only thing that has changed is the fuel and instead of renewing it or retailing it, reworking the carburetor or the fuel system of a carbureted engine to work with it and make versus today's realities Instead of gasoline, they just threw the baby out with the bathwater and used EFI systems, these

conversion

systems, so what exactly are the problems that they have to address?

Again, these are fuel related issues, they are not mechanical issues, they are fuel issues. related problems during the carburetor era when everything was carbureted and there were still a lot of problems even after manufacturers started building EFI systems where we became the standard, the industry standard, there were still millions of carbureted cars on the roads. roads, etc. Until about the year 2000, gasoline refiners made the gas in such a way that it would not evaporate because remember that a carburetor system is open to the atmosphere and runs at atmospheric pressures, so gasoline was formulated with anti-evaporation and anti-boiling qualities built into vapor locks have always been a problem in extreme circumstances, but gasoline was formulated to eliminate as many vapor locks as possible and formulated so that it would not evaporate, which is why the old gas used to turn into varnish if you take any car. that's been sitting, let's say, sitting in a barn for 20 or 30 years and you look at the tank, it's full of gum, that varnish, that's because the gasoline was formulated not to evaporate and it just turned, now you take the The new gasoline car has been separated for a couple of years with the current gasoline and if it does not have varnish, it is reduced to a crunchy texture, but it is not as bad as the old gasoline was, so the carburetor Has not changed engine.

It hasn't changed, the pistons keep going up and down, none of that has changed, the only thing that has changed is the fuel and what happens is the average guy, not the tough guy, but the average classic car enthusiast wants to be able to just get out and spin. the key and driving, the problems occur when the car is stopped for any amount of time, say two or three days, the gasoline, because it is not formulated not to evaporate, will evaporate from the float bowls, so that when the guy goes to start his car, He says he only takes it on Sunday afternoons and he comes the next Sunday and he's going to start it and start it, start it, turn it, turn it, turn it, the pump has to suck gas into the tank, fill the lines on the filter, fill the bowls. the accelerator pumps have to be filled before the engine starts so they spin and spin and spin and pump and pump and pump and nothing happens and then there's another, there's another side effect to this too, most cars today in day they have a non-original carburetor.

It has an electric choke, like these edelbrocks, they all come with electric chokes, so what happens is while they are cranking, they crank, and then they will stop cranking for a second, but they won't turn the key off completely. on the choke during that period of time it is also getting electricity and that's why it starts to open up it doesn't know that the engine is not running so it starts to open up and relax so when they finally get this thing started when the gas is finally pumped all the way and ready to go, the choke is already half open so one's engine like hell for the first few minutes will stall, we'll talk about that kind of thing until it warms up.

For guys like us, let's say they're smarter, we understand that this is going to happen and therefore we take all the precautions beforehand, we'll prime the carburetor or whatever to start with, but the average guy doesn't, they. They are not that sophisticated, so there is the boot problem. Another problem they have is the heat. AfterAfter the car is stopped, let's say, half an hour, 20 minutes and half an hour, they are going to restart it, it does not start because the gasoline boiled in the float. poles and when it boiled in the float bowls it was forced through the Jets and into the thrusters and flooded the engine, so now they have to spin it with their foot on the floor until another one comes out.

The problem is simply related to the fuel, not the carburetor, and then you have the classic vapor lock and what happens with most vapor locks, I'm going to say like April 85 90 I have there, it doesn't happen on The carburetor happens at the fuel pump because the fuel pump runs at the temperature outside the engine, so let's say the coolant temperature is 180 degrees 190 degrees but the block, the external surfaces were above 200, they're like 210 220 Well, then what happens? Does fuel actually boil inside the fuel pump? The mechanical fuel pump creates a vacuum pocket. The diaphragm can't pump out steam, so the engine stops and you have to sit back and let it cool down a bit before it starts again.

These are the problems they are trying to solve by going to an EFI system, a very simple but complicated

solution

. What's wrong with working with the carburetor? Why can't the carburetor? The fuel system associated with a carbureted engine Why can't it? that needs to be made vapor proof so the fuel doesn't evaporate, it's not allowed to evaporate, it doesn't overflow and it doesn't create a vapor lock situation, why can't a mechanical fuel pump be made that has a chamber separate, shall we say? and allows steam to escape and be diverted I don't even know I'm not an engineer.

I'm just throwing out an idea hack or why not tell people right away, hey, stop using mechanical fuel pumps, you have to use an electric fuel pump because that will prevent most of the vapor lock problems instead. of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Why can't carburetors be designed so that when the engine is not running, when it is not, say, getting a vacuum? signal that the float bowls are closed so that the fuel cannot evaporate, why can't the circuits leading to the propellers, why can't they be closed when the engine is not running, electronically or under vacuum so that it can ?

So that it does not overflow and flood the engine, there have to be

solution

s and an example, here is an example, maybe not the best example, but it is an idea from the 1980s, maybe the early 1990s , Honda was hell-bent on their cars. By sticking with a carburetor, they didn't want to go to EFI and created a nightmare, created basically like a vacuum computer. You guys threw in a mechanic back then, who worked on these things. You know what I'm talking about, there's a black plastic. box with 100 vacuum hoses running through the entire engine the uh the schematic when we tried to solve these problems the schematic was it was crazy it was the craziest thing but it was a vacuum computer and the idea was to use the Ignition Vacuum Adaptation and the curve of fuel to match emissions standards and fuel economy requirements and it worked like a nightmare to fix the problem but it worked now from the aftermarket like Halloween these other manufacturers don't have to meet emissions standards . has to meet corporate fuel economy standards or something, why can't they find simple vacuum operated solutions to address those deficiencies and compensate for current fuel failures or current fuel inadequacies using these carburetors?

Throw the baby in with the bat, whether you're making things complicated where they don't need to be complicated, whether it's educating carburetor buyers about the things they should do to avoid these problems or creating something that could simply be bolted on added to a carburetor I'm not an engineer I just make suggestions and make suggestions because I don't just love carburetors. I love American manufacturers. You know this and I have great loyalty to Holly. I've used Holly products very, I mean. For half a century I've paid top dollar for incredibly expensive little trinkets here and there because you know, because Holly, okay, I mean, I'm loyal.

I love you guys, I want to see you succeed, but this is not the In my opinion, the way to do it is to work on what you already master, work on this simple device that does everything, it's been through every phase of evolution, it's been through every circumstance, it works, it is simple, it is infallible, it is what you built, your name and your reputation in the country, the country, this country in its Glory Days, where it is built with these things doing all aspects of the work, let's go back to the basics, let's make this work, forget it, forget about trying to reinvent the wheel, get back to the basics and make these devices work with the limitations of the current fuel.

I know you can do it or maybe someone out there maybe there's a backyard engineer. There are so many experienced engineers in this world working with these different systems that no one can come. one way to make this work with today's gasoline is just my opinions and yes, yes, I'm not happy about anyone, I mean, sometimes I say yes sometimes, but they don't take joy in anyone's failure or the failure of these electronic systems are fine, I rambled on enough. I hope you got something out of it. See you tomorrow.