Stark-Watzinger verteidigt Tankrabatt| Markus Lanz vom 14. Juni 2022

Olaf Scholz will probably travel to kyiv with Draghi and Makro on Thursday. Can you tell us why I think this is very important, because in a crisis or in the war situation that we are seeing now, this war is against a democratic country? in the center of Europe No unrest is necessary and that is why it is good that we communicate with each other and we can also see that Olaf Scholz has now made this issue a top priority to show solidarity here again and that is why it is good And it is true that he will also go there.

See also the situation in the Donbass, that Ukraine is also under pressure and now needs all the support and that is why this joint trip that three European leaders are considering is already a good sign. Why now or asked another way wouldn't it have been correct before? Well, there were always discussions beforehand. We are all in conversations with our colleagues. We had Minister Scarlett with us at the G7 meeting and he also briefed us. The scientific and educational points of view and the debates are always there, but now again the sign, above all, that three European countries are represented there.

This is again a particularly strong signal, Olaf Scholz, from Fraumünster, said beforehand that he would only travel if. The specific things to discuss are what is suddenly concrete, we are also excited to see what he brings with him, but half of the cabinet was already there and now it is time for him to drive himself, yes, but why is he saved now ? and she's the woman, you can hear it's a thing. The president of France, Macro, is in the middle of the elections and is only in the second round of voting, so to speak, and that is why this trip has occurred like this.

Also, in a week and a half we have the big G7 summit in Germany, and a German Chancellor who isn't exactly in kyiv yet while others are already here may not want to be there, Mr. Johnson. Yes, what can Scholz offer now? About two things: on the one hand, he will talk about the issue of weapons supplies. NATO ministers will also meet the day before. I return to talking about what the West is doing to avoid a possible defeat in eastern Ukraine. I believe this is the situation we face. At first we were very surprised by the question of how strong Ukraine is and how weak we are.

Russia has turned around and also to counteract its war fatigue for more than 100 days, I think both in public and in conscience. That is why Mr. Seelands simply takes responsibility in a very massive way and in the West. interestingly, they say something has changed, which means we're dealing with a reality that we don't all really want to accept yet, that Russia will win this war in the end. I'm not an expert, but if you ask the latter questions and even if they listen carefully when they listen in Berlin, then there is already this euphoria of these first days, if I call it that, so Ukraine remains again and again in the Russia points and offers the front that has changed now. that kyiv is no longer the focus of the attacks, otherwise three European leaders would not go there either, so that is a risk that must also be taken into account, but obviously they have decided to give access and but eastern Ukraine see us here Lohans Donets is simply no longer clear whether this can be maintained and when he now says that he really wants to take back Crimea, he has now said so in a ZDF interview, so one wonders with what weapons, so he knows more than that.

We can announce it together on Thursday, what does that mean, so to speak, what is the goal of the war, what is the idea? So far he has also left open the question of what kind of talks still need to be held. Maybe there will be a meatball on Thursday. The company has a problem with Stark Watzinger. Selensky also warned Scholz about a balancing act between Ukraine and Russia. That helps and means we are completely on our feet. Clearly he does not assume solidarity with Ukraine and us. I have also said that Ukraine decides from the outside the path it is going to take here, we will not say what objective Ukraine pursues, but that is very clear and in this sense it is the life of Münster, as has already been said, it is also important for Of course , the longer the war lasts, the greater the danger that the international community will look the other way and now say: we will go there again and show that we support and give energy again, but our navy we can defend ourselves like this.

So far, Mrs. Stark Watzinger, now I would be interested to know how far this support goes, how far it should go in your opinion, there is a difference between if you say that we are defending ourselves, that Russia should not win this war, so Speaking, or the goal should be to recover Crimea, what position are you in? That means it's something completely different. How long will we be supplying so many weapons that it will eventually be possible? That's an important question, but it's also a question. We are looking into a crystal ball. We have seen how the war strategy has changed, where before Russia attacked Ukraine across the board and is now concentrating on individual regions.

This is changing war. This is also changing the strategy, this will also be Ukraine's strategy. Change We have said very clearly that we are now supplying weapons so that Ukraine can defend itself. We are also supplying heavy weapons so that Ukraine can defend itself and I suppose in the future. In the talks now taking place, President Lee Lenski will also say what his goals are. And then you can think about perseverance this time, but I will not anticipate what you are discussing in the cabinet and you also have an attitude about it. You, as FDP, are someone who has responsibility for this country, so you as a person also have that, so to speak, what we are going to do is go with Ukraine to defend Ukraine, or we go with Ukraine.

It's when Ukraine says we want to get Crimea back, we want our former territorial integrity, something completely different that can take years. It may drag on for years, but we see this war as big as we would like it to end quickly. People don't want to come to us and they want to go home quickly and rebuild their country, but we have to face reality. I believe this war will last for years and there will be twists and turns that we cannot foresee now and it is not my place to tell Ukraine what to do as long as it moves within its territorial borders and defends itself; that is, for Ukraine we say that we want to support the recovery of Crimea as you think or that it will later be discussed in the federal government.

As far as your old attitude is concerned, my attitude is that Ukraine is a self-determined country and can decide for itself and the situation is quite positive in the outer circle, we need our help if you want to achieve this war goal. And it is up to us, Mr Lanz, whether we grant this aid or not, I have a personal opinion on this, but we are also in NATO and we will also coordinate very closely with the European partners, but it is very clear that the war is the war in At this moment Russia cannot win this war, that is the main objective and everything else will be discussed with Ukraine, with European partners and with NATO.

The interesting spectacle in Münster there are other representatives of the traffic light. The Berbalk coalition said here recently that Ukraine has to win this war, which is different than they shouldn't lose it because the chancellor also has this fine distinction, yes, and that's not just semantics, it's not just me, but that has given doubts, real consequences, war objective. I think the next two weeks are very crucial, so we have the visitor and then they both come too and that is the main Western actor in this conflict or in this war and it is not a woman.

Scherzinger just said that Russia cannot win. this war but there is something else that I have read or read in the media. I have also taken a clear position that Ukraine has to win the war. I know, but I read lines like that too and then think about what he's trying to tell us in front of Stark. Watzinger? She says we will help Ukraine until Crimea is like Ukraine or not, because that's something she does at home too. 2 We also have to convey this to her voters, but I say that, when? Ukraine has expressed itself about what its war is 10.

I had, yes, he, yes, I, well, but who, then, at this moment we are talking about different things and Ukraine has to decide for itself how it will fight this war and that. where you have your yes and that would be me here I also prevented you from talking to the Chancellor OK other European representatives understand very well no matter what they say the path we are going with them now as a license that we are going through all paths and understand I want to understand what , so to speak, we are still too good and important for the German public, it is completely clear that they are the history of research and education that everyone remembers God, but the topic must be energy and also hydrogen, Those are all the topics too, who also touches your area and you are also sitting at this cabinet table and I would like to understand it in another way.

I'll say it again, we are currently having conversations about what if, my understanding and my attitude is that we have to support. Ukraine in its objectives is exactly what it is. So exactly as a consequence, in the duration of the war in the intensity of the war, we cannot see that today. I hope we can reach peace quickly and of course we. I have to decide little by little, but it would be embarrassing if no one had anything in their luggage. Because Scholz has said several times that he doesn't want to go out for a photo shoot, I'm talking about that, I was also wondering, does that mean that if he gets sick or takes group photos or whatever that means, we'll see, so at least There should be a photo of a trio or a photo of a foursome.

But that, of course, is a high political risk, the race continues and I am excited. that something has to come with this because otherwise it was a complete debacle on the international stage in front of a great meeting that he organizes. Dealing with the subject, it is still important that these things are clearly expressed and explained, so what did he want? Do I hear once a week, or three times a week, the phrase we, who are, that we have to dictate to Ukraine what happens there? But the phrase is at best a half-truth, because Ukraine can only achieve certain things if we participate. and that's why the question of what's happening there and how far it goes is, of course, one we have to answer, but somehow everyone avoids it, which is why they have that too.

I'm not sure if we're in a situation right now where two things. On the one hand, the fate of the war seems to be changing, as we said, as we said. For most people, the risk of escalation is so monstrous that, after the initial shock effect, they no longer talk about war. In short, they leak their news and at this moment a countermovement is brewing on the part of the media, especially in part on the part of politicians. We shake ourselves up again formulating war objectives, which of course some of them fulfill in their wake. The agreements work in a very fundamental way, but in the end, so to speak, they do not achieve the goal that has been set.

I think in the end we will have to agree on something that is feasible and that allows both sides to achieve it in some way. preserve their self-determination, perhaps also to save face, but at the moment I think we are in such an unstable situation that we ourselves are the target and perhaps we will also lose sight of the war after the first impact and, as I said, that This leads to This countermovement we are now massively trying to consolidate an objective in Fraumünster, so we talk about weapons deliveries, heavy weapons and then we have the discussion about discounts on tanks.

From a German perspective, that is the hot topic. right now and it's a little bit removed from the neurotics, I think the path it could go down is probably surprisingly well received and shows that there are obviously still untapped people who are willing to take the bus and the train, so I read that , but while we were there, probably now this discount on the tank or the idea of ​​​​arguing about energy in the heart is a much bigger problem if you still have nothing to do with gas and it is a little absurd that we actually It asks to save energy but then there is a joint government action that makes that energy cheaper for people at the gas station.

To help them, they should be able to use local public transport for nine euros, something that is very well thought out according to the coalition committee, who will want the festival, who will do all this, as was said in the coalition negotiations that they would only meet briefly and never during the weekend and definitely not in a single night, it was a night session, very long, they lasted until 9 8 in the morning, so for a long time everyone was very tired and completely exhausted. I don't think at the end of what you have I knew, what did you know that straight guy Zimmermann would say to me?

Now I said I can, but hey if I have these topics to discuss, no matter what. For me, we are more often left in ecstasy, strong women in the FDP, that's what you said now, of course. That is alsothe case, then the discount on tanks that you tweeted on March 14, very interesting, the discount on tanks cannot simply be implemented at short notice, it is also immediately noticeable on your wallet. Thank you Christian Lindner for this pragmatic suggestion, that's exactly what we need. Now you can see you still have that look, we have millions of people driving.

They work every morning in the car and they can't use the new euro banknote because they live with me in beautiful Hesse, in the countryside, in the Schwalm Eder district or wherever, and they can't use public transport and we have young apprentices, teachers All trainees say that, of course, we are very burdened by the high costs at the gas station. Of course, these people also need relief. Now we have created relief to be able to do it in the short term. To take some of the pressure off, today we have also seen through the Ifo study that prices are reflected.

We personally would have liked a different model, but that was what was being negotiated in the coalition at the traffic light and I think in this sense. It is for one reason because it is valid because people, yes, when they go to work they are also overwhelmed. valid, what does that mean? Is it for success or not? Yes, we see that otherwise the prices would have been higher, so in this respect it is a Success, how do we see that the Ifo Institute published today the study that the prices are 85 to 100 percent, the discount is broadcast at the gas station, so perhaps others see it completely differently compared to France, so the Ifo Institute has price developments? in Germany And if you look at France, now you can see it like this, it was reflected in France, they rose more sharply, but if I have a price reduction of a certain amount of taxes and it does not appear on the pump then it did not work, so I think it can do that.

Even while the consumers or the oil multinationals were happier, I think one day the consumers were happy and they show the graph very briefly, which is very impressive and takes a look at it and then we will look specifically at the diesel curve. That's awesome because the state gives a discount on the tank and then it goes down briefly and a little later and exactly where we were before so they just said you'd compare prices. With France, of course, assumptions have to be made in the study, but in Germany we also have other things, a different situation: we have limited refinery capacities, which means that price increases also have something to do with various influencing factors. in them.

I am not saying that I am satisfied in the sense that, of course, we must analyze whether there is competition, I am not referring to the refineries and that we do not have a large market here, but a very small market. You always have to look, do we have enough competition for prices to go above 100, but what we read is that it is already there? And again at the end of the day, the people that have to be mobile, I think all nine of them. The euro ticket is good because it gives you the opportunity in your free time or in areas where public transport is good and that is what people have learned to want to cross the borders of the PNV, that is another strong signal that shows once plus what needs to be prevented. for politics, but you cannot confront both, both have their objectives and that is the true purpose of the high burdens we bear.

Right now we also have a little to relieve, but instead of having fun, they just have to talk about crude oil and so on and cartels when you look at the price of crude oil you look at the price of crude oil it has nothing to do with this price in the country They have nothing to do with the prices of the refineries We have an anti have a different development that if yes in the meantime the crude oil is the one that passes through the refineries to the gas stations then in this aspect it is not so easy to compare the price of crude oil and the price at the gas station or you just experience a little something in between Can you say you're not happy with me because we don't have enough capacity because it's too expensive?

We can also talk about the fact that the market is not ideal, but I think it is not one to one. the mast is super ideal, so actually that's what it is I always do propaganda, maybe rightly so, but the market decides, the power is great, it says I don't care what the state does, I will do it anyway , but Politically it is rather a total failure if I want to provide help for three months and then I realize that o The product was bad because it does not work, so people do not fill cheaper from time to time.

I must say that the objective was not achieved. Especially with a measure that is only valid for three months to create short-term relief if we simply convey the idea to consumers. Relieving the gas station is simply bad and almost resembles the Jana Schröder incident. This is how they just established violence. Yes, I also see that this failure is for Thanksgiving to be celebrated by someone other than the relief. It shows that there was no rebound, there is always that barometer of the nation's inflation somewhere. The aroma barometer is still reliable, it is clear that the prices are, but this optimistic attempt at reactivation has failed and the summer, from a social perspective, believes that there will surely be subsidies.

It was also a consideration again and was reinforced by the theme of how great the frustration is over this. cabinet table which we have already talked about several times today about the fact that this thing, such a nonsense, does not work. I would like to contradict you again by saying that it doesn't work because we also see the numbers like I do. I trust the scientists and I also see the numbers. Of course, it is not pleasant that prices are still stable or not or have risen again due to the situation in which refinery prices and oil prices are developing, of course.

That's not nice, but. We don't know what it would have been like without that, at least we know that the prices would have been higher, I know it's natural when you see the price go down, it's hard to imagine what it would be like in another. The situation where you have not experienced the price will be but we have to deal with it, so one thing is that you also take into account the other relief measures. She knows that she already agrees to the flat rate. She knows that there are others that there are others that Everything with your boss goes home with Christian Lindner with the FDP You can also know the numbers that the tank discount I can do is so unpopular when you see polls but I think it's writing music.

I think completely different ones are being developed. Set fuel prices should evolve downwards. Our goal should be that we look and learn generally throughout the entire process and how is the energy supply developing in our country? We have to look at how we are developing our. ecological control the objectives and at the same time of course make the burden on the people of our country justifiable and there are different models and in this sense it is the case with us, the frost cannot be frustrated, but Christian Lindner is really frustrated . I can see in his beard he really sees me too the men out here, it's just that they never have anything in front of them, so it's right before the Kobe kids' request because now I have the bathroom, I mean, now that It's someone, the whole thing is because of that.

It is very frustrating because you tried to do something and basically, Fraumünster, shows that in reality the helplessness in which we find ourselves now is, of course, in some way just to torture Mrs. Stark Watzinger with questions on this topic, but in reality only shows helplessness and our dependence. This Russian energy and this oil remains the question of how to explain to the population in the fall that maybe this was just a prelude with the prices and then maybe the gas will really stop flowing and what that means for everyone. Individuals also have a price for us. development that is still scarce, I am very curious to see how they achieve it or what happens in this country demolition of the gossip part of the coalition so look what you see are these two opponents that they also have there at the Cabinet table Well, Lindner , those are the two big ones.

That's like ping-pong. I must say that Mr. Lindner says something about the tank discount. That does not work. From a proposal that was originally put forward by the FDP many years ago, he once suggested that the Kassel oil multinationals reform the law they wanted to do more radically to move forward and blush with that politically it is not so reckless, it cannot be enforced Now that will take time, but the lobby department of the oil company is certainly very alarmed after this weekend and of course this is also an attempt to increase political pressure to say at least three cents, but now quickly, sir .

The company, which is not actually owned by the Lindners, is a government, but these two are already opponents. At first it was something that was hidden by a lot of harmony, but they both wanted Mr. Hayek's position as Finance Minister. He didn't understand it. He became vice-chancellor. Today, Mr. Lindner may be very unhappy because he now finds it difficult to manage the budget when things are not going well with the many crises that Lindner suggests. The newspaper says there is always a little coal. We must rethink nuclear energy. Habeck appears before the press two days later and says that in France things are not working at all with nuclear power plants, so something is already brewing. and the FDP simply in the United States there was at least one problem this year and Christian Lindner himself spoke of disastrous election results after North Rhine-Westphalia, which was actually due to the crushing defeat.

I think something is happening and that he. He thinks about nuclear energy every time the Research Minister sits here. They are talking about letting nuclear power plants run for longer, as their boss currently suggests, so we have to talk about the energy of the future with an open mind and we have to see the opportunities and risks in everything, open to technology, open to technology, for example, there are also new research and startups that are very strong in nuclear fusion that will take a while how many years 30 no no 30 between 10 and 15 it started, that will still take time, so you always have to use technology , you cannot condemn a technology from the beginning, but, of course, you have to see the risks and talk about them.

What options are now on the table and exchange all the arguments. I think it's completely legitimate, if in the end we find out why it doesn't work then it won't be an option, but I think it's also important for citizens to see that we really examine everything that is possible to produce in a climate-friendly way. as neutral as possible but also as safe as possible and as cheap as possible for people because why? I'm just trying to briefly recap what exactly you said? You said you are in favor of nuclear energy? I don't think nuclear power is useful right now because we haven't found anyone who can't let it run longer for the final storage facility.

As far as I know, if we were talking about letting it run for another year. We could talk about it. Only you have many other problems that are already planned to be eliminated. The question is: is there still enough uranium available? These are very practical problems, but you know the answer. You know that, of course I know there's uranium in the world, but there are very specific supply relationships, but if you're going for things, you should invest more money, you should make sure nuclear power plants last longer, you. You have to, you have to, you have to discuss all these questions, that was my point and they are still with me.

It's not on the table where I can form a final opinion and that's why I'm trying to say we have to talk about it, which doesn't mean we have to raise a flag now for the extension of the 2. What does that mean? That's what I'm saying, but that's why I have to do it sometimes because it's always discussed in public, so let's gather all the facts about the business at which point you wonder if the discussion took place in the federal government, why now Mr. Beck clarified it at the beginning of the war with Finnish reasons, after he had spoken to the manufacturers and they said that I would have to do it? a woman If you are interested in something else, I just mentioned it and that is very praiseworthy.

They traveled extensively throughout the US, Canada and Australia. They described what would really be a beautiful vision and I will do it. I share that at some point in Australia, where so much sunshine, for example, allows ships to leave fully loaded with hydrogen created from pure solar energy and then land here at some point in the port of Hamburg. That is the vision of the future. , so to speak, and that's where you also invest money as a research ministry. You also invest money in developing research into new smaller nuclear power reactors, what you just described, nuclear fusion, for example, yes, research open to technology.

We also have a great European project on the topic of fusionnuclear in which many countries participate at the international level. We are involved in it across Europe because we want energy that is as secure as possible. Decentralized, that is, if possible without having to guarantee a long transmission path, we have We have been researching hydrogen for years and we have just presented feasibility studies with Australia and also with Africa with some African countries. We can produce hydrogen much more expensively than the fossil fuels we currently use because in Australia we have sun and wind, which means they are stable and it is profitable to produce hydrogen there and then transport it to Europe.

That is possible and now the question is how can you create a market like this in the rock? So how can you actually put it into practice? We will also improve by making the technology even better and more efficient and we are also discussing this with the industry. Yes, a country that has a lot of industry, we will always depend on energy imports. Yes, we have to expand our renewable energies, that is very important. but we also always need energy imports and we need the cleanest energy possible with countries that share our values ​​and that is Australia and that is partly Africa South Africa and Namibia and also in countries like Portugal Canada is starting to be interested in it. and that is something that will not present itself tomorrow yet relatively quickly