Secret Agent: Send Your Children To A Village! How To Detect A Lie Instantly! - Evy Poumpouras

As an interrogator and special

agent

for the US Secret Service, I am trained in the art of reading verbal cues from people's body language, meaning even written statements so you can figure out who is full of nonsense and who isn't. I would see that many people guilty are Evie pom porus, a former US Secret Service special

agent

who protected presidents, worked undercover, and trained in the art of lie

detect

ion, human behavior, and cognitive influence. She now has a mission to help us all benefit from the lessons. she has learned along the way E I want to delve into all the techniques, the life lessons, the wisdom, so what are the co-components of how to get someone to do what you want?

Everyone is motivated by something different. What you want to understand is that person's motivational mindset. But the biggest mistake people make is what happens when

your

boss or colleague doesn't listen to you? What should you do? It's called linguistic pair. Everyone is so focused on what they are saying that they don't think about the tone of their voice. But there are simple things you can do to make sure people listen to you first. You spent 12 years surrounded by people like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. Did you learn anything about leadership? They don't get carried away by emotions and the problem most people have is that they get their feelings involved in this, they don't want to make emotional decisions, it never goes well, step back and be objective.

Evie, when she thinks about her experience in the

secret

service, there was a day when she thought the president's life was at risk. Know? I don't think I ever talked about it, but then what was the scariest moment of

your

career, there was another undercover case, all these things are escalating again, any second he's going to kill my partner and take out my gun that was left behind. with me, congratulations dcio gang, we have made some progress. 63% of you who listen to this podcast regularly do not subscribe, which is a decrease from 69%. Our goal is 50%, so if you've ever liked any of the videos we have. posted if you like this channel can you do me a quick favor and hit the subscribe button?

It helps this channel more than you think and the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the bigger the guests get. Thanks and enjoy this episode, Evie. Someone just clicked on this podcast to listen to it because they thought the title was interesting or the thumbnail was interesting, understanding that we're going to talk about the work you're doing at this stage of your life and who you're doing it for. Can you tell me exactly why they should stay and listen to this conversation? I think it's different for everyone, but why should you listen? Listen on think cor.

We are always trying to become something better. I wrote my book and I became bulletproof and I think the essence of that was I'm trying to be more than and how about this? The day you think you know everything is the day you become obsolete. I live by that because I'm never at my peak. I'm always becoming more if you're looking to be more and you don't know what that is exactly then listen to all this information that we're going to talk about today um the techniques the things that you've learned the life lessons the wisdom where it comes from what is your Yes I looked at your CV, what would I see?

Probably, honestly, where I probably come from is growing up in New York, the daughter of immigrants. I think there's an aspect there, but I think I really think the majority of it is when I became a New York City person. police officer and then I went to the US Secret Service and I came in young, I was 22 or 23 years old, so while everyone at that age was out partying doing whatever, I came into this field and was around a lot of other artists of Elite. and thinkers and I learned a lot by training how work humiliates you and then also working in the White House being around other high-performing thinkers, which I didn't really, I mean I really grew up there, I grew up in in the white house I grew up in the U.S.

Secret Service that's how I grew up, so I think those things help shape me and mold me not only to the training but also to the people I was with. I learned a lot, made a lot of mistakes, but I had a great time. I don't want to say Role Models because I don't like that word. I don't look at anyone and say I want to be that, no, I want to be me, but I can look at other people and learn and be inspired. of them and see what they do, so I had those examples to guide me, so I think that's where most of that comes from and then practicing it, flexing that muscle is like a workout, you have to keep doing it and be honest with yourself .

You, Secret Service, no one wants to hear excuses. Nobody cares how you feel. I don't mean this with bad intentions, but they say we have a job to do. What is the Secret Service? I really want to get closer to your professional experience to understand how the wisdom that you have was derived from different types of seasons of your experience, so many of us have heard this term

secret

service agent, but actually, if I look at the span of your career What specifically did that entail? So the Secret Service, the United States Secret Service, was actually one of the oldest federal police train agencies in the US, so they do two things, the only thing they do is protect the president.

Everyone sees it well. Everyone says, oh, that's the Secret Service. that's all they do. No, in fact, even that unity of people that you see around the president it is very difficult to even get in there, you don't do it, you don't go automatically and even if you want to go it doesn't mean you go. We're going to get it to protect the president, former presidents, vice presidents, first ladies, even foreign heads of state, so when the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom comes to the US, he will receive protection because we don't want him to be assassinated in the US, so everyone. these foreign heads of state, so you're protecting tons of people and it doesn't matter who it is, your job is to die for you, period, so that's one aspect, so there's a very selfless aspect to that. which goes against all your intuition, because even in law enforcement as a police officer or a police officer they teach you, hey, if you get shot, make yourself small, cover yourself and then hire the American secret services, that everything goes away. the window, it's not you.

If you get shot, jump in front and then make yourself even bigger to make sure the bullet hits you and not the person behind you, so you have to reconnect as an instinctive thing, which is protection, the other aspect is the investigations, they work on investigations. fraud, a lot of fraud, a lot of complex crimes and today fraud is global, so you will investigate someone in Russia. I remember there was a guy in Russia who was committing fraud here in the US. He was breaking into bank accounts of these very rich people, so the US Secret Service and Homeland Customs border patrol and CBP, all They got together because we have to get this guy and they realize he's in Russia, so the US goes to Russia and says, Hey Russia, can you help us get this? boy can you know?

You can

send

it? So Russia of course says no we're not going to do it to be fair, we wouldn't do it for Russia either, so it goes both ways, so they all had to be created. Do we catch this guy so they can say he's okay? We are going to make a plan to lure him to another country, a neutral country, so that this plan can be put into action. Not my case and it will probably be Friday night. I hear my boss call. from the other side he says hey pom purus yes sir he says what will you do tomorrow?

I looked at him. I said: why don't you tell me what I'll do tomorrow? he said: can you go to Dr. Dominican Republic? He said sure, what do you need, it's like you have to go undercover, okay, what am I doing? It's like we have this guy in Russia, we are luring him from Russia to the Dr., we want to catch him and bring him to the hospital. US you are going to go with your boyfriend I say who is my boyfriend? he's an NYPD

detect

ive I think he was I don't remember how cool he was you're going to be his girlfriend you're going to give him legitimacy you're going to convince this Russian to come to the US I say where are we going to do this?

He is like in a resort. I said Resort. I say, what do I have to do? He's like just forcing it. Seems legit, you mean hanging out by the pool all day and just drinking peina coladas. He said yes, as long as they are virgins. I told him there is no problem. MH and that's what we did. We spent I don't know how many days at this Resort. My boyfriend and I, who were like 20 years older than me, maybe 30, had dinner with the Russian talking to him and what we tried to motivate him was greed, come to the United States, we will sneak you in and you will make a lot of money. and since we knew his motivation was more money, so he's thinking about it, he's thinking about it, we're having a hard time with them and it's finally the day before we're supposed to leave on our private jet, which is Customs.

Border patrol and I'm talking to my boyfriend's detective, I'm like you think he's going to show you, it's like I don't know so we're waiting that morning, it's like 5 minutes to 9: we're about to leave the resort . and we think it's not going to show up 3 minutes before 9: it rolls up it's like I'm inside so we board our plane it's our private jet it's customs border patrol everyone is undercover we go up there it's like alcohol I don't drink there's food that get in the Russian we fly from the Dominican Republic to Miami we land in Miami we refuel it's all the agents that are watching but they're all you know reading newspapers they're all undercover we get back on the plane we fly to New York and then we land on Long Island in a very remote area, there is a limousine there, our limousine, my boyfriend's limousine.

I don't drink again. It's like Jack Daniels, Jack Daniels Blue Label, which is like the fancy, I guess, liquor that we walk in, we get in the limo and then we drive, so now we have them in the US, we got them, we brought them to Brooklyn, to the Brooklyn Bridge and the knockdown was that I took a photo of my boyfriend and the Russian in Brooklyn. Bridge wearing his Russian hats because he brought Russian hats and that was my clear, take us down, it's safe, so I put the picture of the bridges on the back.

My boyfriend says: Welcome to the United States. We're going to commit all this fraud. I'm going to steal all this money the Russians super happy click everyone comes in we're all handcuffed that's an example of a case if I back up you said what you wanted was more money when you're trying to understand how to get someone to do what you want do, what are the core components of that? I talked to Andrew Bustamante, who is the former CIA agent, and he said that he spent a lot of time undercover doing very similar work going to foreign countries, getting people.

You like to trust him and then give him something and one of the things he told me is that you need to understand his ideology. He says that all the things that make someone do something is understanding his ideology, which is pretty much what you do. When you're describing there, I think there's ideology and the other thing he said is this framework: reward, ideology, coercion and ego, and what you described, I guess, is the reward that that Russian guy wanted when you think about how to get someone to do what you want. What is the type of frame?

Where are you by default and I'm and here I'm thinking about business, I'm thinking about sales, I'm thinking about all forms of persuasion because that's essentially what you had to do. you had to take this complete stranger sounds like a stranger to a private J to accompany you to the United States, so I'm going to shut up because I need to understand what you want. The biggest mistake people make is that they talk too much, Steph, if I'm talking and you're listening correctly, you're learning all about me, you're learning about what matters to me, my values, my belief systems, you're getting a good reading about me and I'm learning. nothing about you there is a myth that says that people think that if I talk most of the time I have control, it's rubbish, you have the power because you have me now, so what I'll tell you is, and I know about Andy, what you want to understand.

It is the motivational mentality of that person, what motivates you? That is your value and belief system. Everyone is motivated by something different, but I have to listen to you and pay attention to understand what everyone's purpose is. Is different. The example I gave you with a Russian is motivated by money, how did you realize that there was a certain question or was it just one? His actions showed it because he wants money and then when talking to him, he had a I think he had a wife at home, he had a son at home. he grew up a certain way, so just listen here, have a drink, talk to me, let me know, if you give people enough space they will reveal themselves to you, but we're so busy talking, we're so busy making noise because we think everyone needs listen to me I'm identity everyone needs to know me me me me and you know what no one cares there's something about that too where when you listen to someone they like you more yes, they like you more because everyone loves to talk about it themselves because now everyone wants to feel heard.

I will tell you this, although I am goingto reject a little bit of similar things because even in business people like me I need people to like me, I need people to like me, that's it. a walk to disaster because now you are not focused on what your goal is, but I need to create someone like me, those are two different animals if my goal is to do it. If my goal is to make him like me, which is much more complex and much more confusing and will also ruin my attempt. To understand that, I say this, don't focus on people liking you because you can do everything right and people still might not like you.

Instead, focus on what if I'm going to be competent at what I do when I say I'm going to do something. I follow through when I say I can do something. I can really do it when I say I'll be there at 9: I'm there at 8:55 at the US Secret Service. We had one saying if you're on time you're late so I show you I'm competent when you see me go to like that's why yes you are I will respect you now there is warmth warmth is the other element here warmth is that I show you respect, so instead of trying to please you, how about I just show you respect?

What does that actually look like? Showing a little more respect is that again, by keeping time, I'm listening to you, I show up instead of following through on what I say I'm going to do, I'm also open and approachable. I don't judge either, that's a very important thing, everyone is like putting their weight on the line, let me tell you what I think, let me tell you what I think no one needs to know what you think, it doesn't matter if you're really trying to build a connection with a person, then build them up and let them tell you what they think because now I see the world through your lens.

It's not mine, I always say when, especially, I do a lot of keynotes and training for companies, it doesn't matter, they matter, what they want, what they need, what's important to them, let them tell you and then when they tell you, instead of trying. guess how to enter a conversation because you are entering blindly, but what do I do, I shut up, I listen, I let you reveal to me what matters to you, what your values ​​are and then I enter more intelligently into the conversation and I talk to you, you have to know your audience, but you don't know your audience if you're speaking, everyone is motivated by something different if you take my motivational factor growing up.

I was never motivated by money, my Russian was read, that's what. fair, but it wasn't when I got a job. I never looked at the salary. New York Police. I had no idea what my salary was. When I went to the US Secret Service, I never asked them what the salary was because I wasn't motivated because I was mission motivated because of the purpose, but people will show you that, so the recruiter that talked to me probably figured it out. Notice this woman never asked me what her salary will be, she's not motivated by that, those are little things people show.

You will show them what you care about if we just hold back, stay silent, ask good questions, and know what we are truly curious about. I really want to meet them. I really want to understand them. I really don't want to tell him. Everything about me is different and the only factor that is really important is not to judge, not to judge, when you show judgment to another person, they are going to filter what they say, they are going to close, they are going to withhold. Because no one likes to be judged. I would interview people in the polygraph room who committed really horrible crimes.

Crimes against

children

. A lot of people told me: How can you sit there and listen to it and not know how to tell them what you think? It's not like digging them. I thought because my goal was to obtain information. See where there are other victims. How they did it? I want to know what they did so I can make sure this doesn't happen again and will. maybe get information so I can get a conviction and then I also want to know if there are other victims out there my goal is not to control someone and put them in their place and tell them what I think of them, they are two different. things also in the room my goal was not to make them like me my goal was to make them feel heard so that they feel respected for my professionalism and I think we used the wrong terms because it's confusing if I want them to like me Think about it this way too, then I'm going to think that I have to be nice to him, I have to be his friend and when you become a business, you can be warm, but when you start becoming friends with people, that's when the lines appear. they get blurry and we get confused, in fact there's research done by Susan Fisk and Chris Malone and they say be warm with people, be open and approachable, but if you're too nice, too friendly, too polite, that's when you get confused. angry and wants to find that beauty. balance where I am a professional I am warm I don't judge come talk to me tell me but at the same time I maintain my authority I maintain my boundaries what happens when someone compromises your boundaries or disrespects you how do you react? to that because I think I have a lot of leaders around me in my various businesses and sometimes I see that some leaders struggle with confrontation with those who struggle, you know, a team member might disrespect them in some way or might not deliver the work. to the right standard and they might have a hard time convincing that person to know how to do that and how to approach that situation and avoiding that conflict obviously just causes a bigger future problem because you're setting a new boundary. right, you've let someone put themselves in danger or cross a line and if you don't, I guess if you don't address that in the moment, they'll cross it again in the future, this really is about conflict. resolution of interpersonal conflicts resolution and when you have been disrespected, how do you handle it?

So the first thing I'm going to do is turn it over. What have you done to make people think they can do that to you? That's the first thing I'm going to say: what standards have you created or what things have you set up so that people think I don't have to deliver on time? I can't be disrespectful. I can't be late for work. That's the first thing I'm going to say, so I guess I did it. In the past I set a standard for this. Somehow I introduced myself in the past. That's the first thing I'm going to do.

What is there something I have done to create an environment where a person thinks it is okay to do these things? That's first. Why are you going to I? Because I'm the one who sets the tone. I just interviewed a station chief. Former station chief John Franie, he's ex-CIA and he led a lot of people and a lot of very strong personalities because you had officers and all these different people and he told me, you know what I learned, he said it's easier to be more have boundaries and be a little stronger and more authoritarian at first and then back off than being friends with everyone and then trying to put those boundaries in place the guy doesn't work is how you do it the first one you let people know what you expect from them and then you can back off a little bit, but you always have to toe that line, so that's what I'm going to say first and you're right, what tone have I set in the environment that I'm working in? people think it's okay to do these things, that's one now let's say sometimes I'm an outlier I have a person who does these things as soon as it happens you have to address it what people do is they don't address things they leave it. pass is small and then it happens again it is small, then again and then we get resentful we get angry why does this person keep doing it why doesn't he self-correct again come back to me why haven't I addressed it people are afraid of conflict conflict It can be done in a great way, you have to think about the conflict as if I am competing, I can talk to you, not raise my voice, not make it ugly and debate something with you inside. the White House next to the Oval Office was the cabinet room, the cabinet room is where the president would sit with all his heads, you know, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and they would discuss and debate policies, laws and competed, one person Say I don't like this idea.

That's why someone else would say: Well, this idea doesn't work. That's why you have to feel comfortable doing it. Most people don't understand that you can sit someone down and say. Hey, you know this happened, can you tell me that I had someone who worked for me and she had made a mistake on something, so it was a pretty big mistake, so I called her and said, hey, do you know what happened? you know, tell me about it and I let her explain and you know, she said, you know, I'm sorry, this and that, uh, there's a reason why, but the only thing I did I said because I wanted to rectify it because I didn't want to.

It happened again. I thought, is there anything I can do to help improve your work so you can be more successful at what you do? Because I want to know if there's something I'm doing or not doing that's impacting her decision making or the way she sees things is twofold, but you also do it when it comes to respect and this is a completely different thing that you mentioned with the respect part, just make sure people really disrespect you and it's not your ego that feels disrespected because sometimes people can't take it when someone hits me back and if my goal is to make a great product or business or transaction then everything we do should be to promote that, but what happens is that Stephen's people are very afraid of hurting other people's feelings or stepping on others. people's toes no one says anything and that's worse, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between whether this is a violation of my boundaries or it's my ego because you know, I think a big part of the reason why people don't confront something in the moment it's because they start guessing whether they're right or they're wrong this is acceptable this is unacceptable behavior and that kind of mental debate of um is it really acceptable that they treat me like this or that they did this or I'm just it triggers me because you know of some kind of emotional problem that I have and that kind of conversation often results in them not taking any action, which means they tolerate that behavior whether they should or not, and then it becomes the norm, you know that is. interesting so I'm very um I'm also quick to jump and I don't want to say go into attack mode but I got it.

I am Greek. I group myself in New York and queens, it's like it's like that I always have that my immediate response is like an internal internal voice, uh, I pause and think, wait, is this person saying something to me or doing something that I should listen to well , maybe they are telling me that I made a mistake and are you trying to help me improve something or is this person crossing a boundary that I don't want them to cross? Then I will sit that person down or have a conversation. Hey, can you tell me about this?

What were you thinking when this? it happened, explain it to me, but I'll tell you without judging, right, you don't want to show it, I call it the poker face, just don't show it and let them talk and just see what most people think. They're talking to you Stephen, they'll figure it out on their own as they talk about what they did wrong. What they did wrong. You also guide me with examples. So sometimes I will make a mistake. I won't meet a deadline with someone I work with. with and I'll say listen, I'm sorry, I was traveling, I got it, tell me what I need to do to fix it and what I've found when I do that, that the people that I work with when they make a mistake and I'm like hey, what happened to this, you know? what, I'm sorry I missed the deadline, I got it, I'll fix it, they reflect what I show them, so I think it shows in the behavior as well and then sometimes Stephen, sometimes. you'll bring in someone who just shouldn't be there and then you'll also have to make that difficult decision because that person will destroy the structure of the group.

A person can do that because everyone else is now observing that interaction and them. I'm thinking well, Stephen doesn't care. I thought he was letting this guy do this so I can do it right. It's something I compare to uh when he taught, so like I said, I'm an agent. Teacher. I teach at the university. I teach undergraduate classes. The first day of CRI criminal justice class when they come in I tell them there are no cell phones and the reason I don't make them is not because I want them to respect me or this and that I said I owe them I owe you an education I owe you an education I know some teachers don't care, but I tell my students the first day that I give one and because I give one I don't want to see my phone in class, yet I do something else. an influence strategy I give you autonomy I say however you can leave this classroom any time you want to check Facebook go to Instagram I don't care that you have that autonomy but here I want you to respect the sanctity of the classroom because you deserve an education and you I owe it to you and set that standard and a side note.

There's a video clip that I showed on the first day and you're actually in it. I didn't even know who you were. There's a clip of you and a few others. It's a setup. of videos together talking about social media and how it negatively impacts you and cell phones and cell phone addiction and all that and I actually play that clip and I can tell you that it resonates with everyone and I have no problems the rest of the semester, but I made it a point to that tone and I tell them that if I see the phone, you go home without hard feelings, I'm going to pause the class and I'm going to

send

you home andthen if someone violates it, I will, you had to build up your mental how would you describe it? strength, ability to be direct, look someone in the eye, stand tall, have you had to develop that over time because there will be many people who will look at you and see strength, confidence, conviction and They will wonder Maybe she was just born that way or maybe there is something she did along the way that she grew up and that is a lot of mistakes and a lot of discipline and it's also that the people you know from those around you will give you that example, that tone for you.

If everyone around me is a mess or everyone around me when there is a stressful situation they fall apart and are chaotic. I'm going to be like that to this day, Stephen, I sit and I'm very conscious of who I have conversations with. whose energy I absorb whose problems I solve I have someone I care a lot about is in a situation with someone a relationship with someone that is volatile and chaotic has come to me so many times I said you should put this aside person I will do it, I will do it, they won't , but what happens is that they keep coming to me.

I have this problem and I'll make it clear to you. I told them what to do now, they have to figure that out because now, what happens? What's happening is that your stuff is coming into me and I can't allow it because I have to keep this stable, so sometimes, even with pain in my heart, I'm going to have to move that person a little bit to the outside of the circle. It doesn't mean I don't care or love you, but it means your chaos has to stay there because it's going to bleed into my life.

You're unstable, I'm unstable, but everyone around me is like I don't mean. It's like a calculus problem, but it's kind of simple math, man, look who's around you, you're them, they're you, and if you don't like what's happening with you, pause and think: Who am I most exposed to? Sometimes the people I love can be very difficult personalities, but even with them you could say I can handle this. I don't want to delete this person, but what do I do? I just move it a little more towards the edge of the circle and there you have it. to make sure that your core circle is strong and that is something that you have to constantly reevaluate because sometimes in our lives this person is good here and then maybe 2 or 3 years later they are no longer good, but what we are tied to is to that person we knew back then, well now they are not the same person, if you have a program around you, it is you because you are allowing it to exist, so think silently how can I create these changes and make these changes silently , setting these boundaries silently because These are internal boundaries for you, it's interesting.

I remember watching a video of Steve Jobs talking about how he built his career and he said in that video that I built my career around myself and finding these truly exceptional people, these gamers and the crazy ones. The thing is when you find these players they like to work with other players and it spreads but the opposite is also true, yes when you build a drama circle they will invite more drama but if I look at my own life and look at my companies and it's almost a kind of crazy process of osmosis, when we have chaos, we have inexperience and we have drama, we end up hiring and inviting more of the same, whereas when we took those steps to bring experience, I'm Thinking back to my beginnings in my career, experience and maturity and composure and a certain, yes, a certain psychological maturity, so that's what we end up incorporating more and more because like-minded people attract like-minded people and even in the context of our own lives, our Circle you'll just know that the fifth person will become the sixth person if that makes sense, yeah, it's like they rotate and that's okay, you know what's interesting too.

I'm also wondering because you do this podcast and you really try. you're warm, you're open, you want people to talk to you and I wonder if people who work with you outside of the podcast or people who work with you in your business see Steven on the podcast and think he's so warm. open, he's so flexible and they confuse Stephen with Steph that he does business and there may be different versions of you, Stephen, so you can think about it and I do this all the time. Who I am here doesn't mean I'm the same person here, so when I come to work I bring maybe a little more energy, a little more candor or when I hire people, I tell people.

Hey, listen, because sometimes I want to be efficient in what I do. I'll be very direct because I just want to get there, don't get hurt. If there is ever anything you are unsure about, please tell me, but since I need to get there, I can be direct. If you think it's going to be difficult for you, I'm not the person I was, but I will always appreciate you and I will always be here, so I will tell you from time to time. Hey, I appreciate it, thanks for this. It's cool that way, so that's where my warmth is, so in those months where I'm like, "Hey, this email you guys wrote, we can't send this, this needs to be redone, so no one hears like, oh, I'm idiot".

She thinks I'm done, I did a horrible job, it's like no, email just sucks, change it and fix it so we can move on and do it better, but think about the versions you bring because I'll give you an example of who I am. in the classroom it's different than who I am on the podcast it's different who I am when I do the news there are different versions of me and we have to weigh them so if you're going to a business meeting or you're dealing with people who consider you a supervisor a little bit different, Steph, so they feel like it's not what you tell people, Stephen, but how they feel around you and if they feel like he's not taking any of this, they'll know. it is the essence of who we are it is our spirit it is a Greek word the way you are we show we show people in the context of whatever environment we are in the version we want them to see so we can get the results we want to happen great some of your time with great leaders, if I think about you, you know you were working for almost 12 years with people like Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and Michelle Obama.

Did you learn anything about leadership from those people by watching them and seeing how they behaved and how they communicated, in the UK we see that someone like Barack Obama is a really incredible leader for many reasons, but I think one of the most prominent reasons is his ability to communicate in a certain way, which galvanizes people and we haven't really seen that, I mean you could actually argue that Trump has his own masterful communication skills, it's very different, but it seems to work, you know? Did you learn anything from being around these presidents about leadership and communication?

So you learn, you learn something from all of them to be president of the United States, whoever you are, I mean, that's a feat in itself, so they're all, they all have something, so it's interesting that the only thing I learned It is resilience, you will be at the president's side. and these were all the presidents and forers, they were all standing next to them and you are standing next to them and they are about to go on stage or in a big meeting or they are talking to someone and you have the news. and there's some political pundit on the news or on the channel talking about how stupid they are he's a fool he's this he's that just tearing them down and he looks at it he does get his stuff together he prepares his speech he goes up on stage and he delivers when most of the audience sat there, oh my God, they disrespect me.

I'm like this, how can you say that nothing was surprising to me? So not only did the US Secret Service make me resilient, but also seeing someone take so much pressure or hear something so horrible. Things are said about them constantly on public platforms and you have the ability to wake up, walk outside the White House, raise your head, get in your limo, go on stage, do this press conference and you think it's just going to happen. . There's no, there's no school for that and because I was around these these these personalities, I said, yeah, well, if he can do it, I can do it, who was the most impressive.

I have to tell you that everyone was there, there was no one. That wasn't like everyone had their gift, you know, and even Trump you mentioned Trump before. I think what people like about him is just direct, he's very direct and he just gets it done, he says what he says and he doesn't care. there's a there's something and I'm Swiss because in the US Secret Service we weren't actually even allowed to speak if we voted for someone we were very apolitical and I've always stayed that way, but from an objective point of view people just like the fact that he just says it and doesn't care and sometimes I think people envy that.

Did you see how they made their decisions? Have you ever observed them making difficult decisions? Yes, you would be behind closed doors all the time. You would listen to his ability. Give me an example of this. I'm interested. Know? When there is so much at stake because many of us make fairly inconsequential decisions on a day-to-day basis, especially in the context of leading the most powerful. nation in the world, so I'm interested when the stakes are so high when you have to have Osama Bin Laden in a compound in Pakistan or you know there's a terrorist attack, how these individuals make decisions that are not driven by emotion, they are very rational decisions. .

I weigh the pros. I weigh the cons. I look at the facts so very rarely if ever and I could probably say I have never heard a US president yell. I've never heard a US president get lost, you know, when you hear them debate or talk about things, it's a debate. I can look at you, you can look at me. I'm like Stephen, I don't think this is right and you'd say EV, well why? Okay, if we do it this way, this way, this is going to happen, yes, but Stephen, if you do it this way, what if this happens and these guys die?

Well, I don't see it that way. Well, yes, I see it. In this way, it's like we have to figure it out, but you're also with people who have the ability to sit and endure their feelings, they're not so fragile, their ego is not so soft that you can actually have this debate and that's it. It is important that you have them in your circle. Can you have these debates with people that I would call competing? There are two great researchers in the UK, Dr. Lawrence and Emily Allison, and they design people like animals and one of the things I talk about is someone who is in control and sets the agenda is someone who lies. .

I am a liar and that is why sometimes we have to put ourselves a little more in line with ourselves or someone who is competing is someone who is capable of debating with you but does not have to be ugly I do not have to raise my voice or confront you to break something . I can sit there and be rational. The problem most people have is that they are so involved and emotional that they involve their feelings and hurt their feelings. even something you just mentioned about Trump and you were a little like Trump because everyone gets so excited when they hear that name and they step back and they're objective it's like let me look at this from a factual point of view I'm going to lay this out I'm going to lay this out I'll let this lay out when you can make decisions based on facts and rationality, go out the window, you don't want to be an emotional decision maker, it never turns out well because you're not thinking clearly, you just go with the wave and It's those moments when you say something you shouldn't say and then you regret it, why did that person make me say that I came in with this intention?

Pushed in this direction, this person made me say no, it's always up to you because you are your governor the first time you were exposed to a president and spent time with a president. Was there anything that surprised you? that you used to have sort of misconceptions about what they were like and how they behaved and you suddenly realize that those were popular misconceptions that most people believe about presidents and so on. I don't know if this is a misconception, but my The first time they called it a permanent position, um, it was for President George W.

Bush, he's in office. I'm in permanent position for him somewhere, what does that mean? Oh, permanent position is when you're new, you don't get into the closed circle. The president's name is Evie here is the door and the president is going to walk through this door in eight hours we are going to sweep it, we will check for bombs and everything and your job is to guard the store for eight hours, no one comes in. right, that's it, it's called standing, you secure the perimeter, it's mundane, right, but you do it, it's part of the job, especially when you start, so I have one of my first standing positions, I'm standing next to the door and the senior agent a senior agent comes to see us hey you're okay you're okay you need something he's briefing us and then an agent comes and says you're new right?

I'm like, yeah, well, I'm kind of new, I mean, I started with Clinton. but Bush was my real I don't know what, but my real difficult task and he says: where is his phone? I told him he's here sir, he says that thing is off or silent. I said yes, he said, don't let Bush listen to your phone. off and I say, what do you mean?, he says if he hears your phone go off, you go home, he says he doesn't want to listen to the phones,so they think I have confidence if I don't? You know, because there are all these things like Superman Poses where you can get bigger and look people in the eye, but when I reflect on my early years, when I was less confident, for some reason I couldn't get anyone who I was chasing, so I remember there were these.

Five girls that I was with from when I was 14 until I was 23, I would say I really liked them. The five of them were not interested in me. We would like to go a little further down. the line, so there was kind of an initial interest, but then I always lost them and I never knew why, I never knew why, but then it changed around 24 and it doesn't correlate with money or success necessarily correlates with my opinion about myself and it was almost like magic when I looked back and thought I was rejected over and over again and when I got to the point where I truly believed I was good enough. even though I read all the books, I read all the Artistry pick-up books, I read the game, I read all these books, I had tips and tactics and tricks for faking, but it wasn't until I truly believed I was high.

I appreciate that I had real success with the opposite sex and so it left me with the feeling that you can read the tips, the tricks, the eye contact, the body language, but maybe none of that works because there are a thousand other non-verbal microexpressions that they're communicating your low worth you don't believe in yourself you're not worthy that dominates that we can't really control and the reason it changed in 24 25 26 27 is because I really felt like I was good enough for them so You know, that's why I reflect on this idea that I know people would click on podcasts like this because they want the tips, the tricks, they want to get from a to Zed in 3 seconds, no, they want to get, they want to get from the bottom.

Confidence, low self-esteem, all that in the wings with a king and they want to do it. They want to know how to do it in the space of this conversation so they can finish this conversation and walk down the aisle tomorrow with their prince. lovely, that's what people want, they want to solve complex things with short simple solutions, it doesn't exist. I know this book because I know that if I title this like you title a podcast sixpack ABS in s minutes, people will, but if you title It's six abs in three years of work in diet restriction, no one is going to click, you know, and it's the same here and in life, and I often wonder how someone changes the core of themselves, whether as a leader, a manager in a relationship that's very central to you, because in my life it was actually a long process. and exhausting to build myself, it was like retreating from worrying so much about getting any of these people and just building this.

A real inner strength and then everything else took care of body language, eye contact, the way I walk into a room, it all took care of itself and you know, but it doesn't sell books that no one is going to buy that book, you know? ? What if it's all the little things we do that help us get there? There's nothing magical, that's why you say it took time and what it was is all the little things in the sense that that came, there's nothing magical. Sometimes people come to me and tell me what the secret is and I tell them there is no secret, the change you want in your life, it's all the little things you do, it's like thinking of it as compound interest, right, I do this and then I add this layer and then this layer and then this layer and then this layer is like the sheets of paper you put one sheet is light two sheets are light three sheets but you put a thousand sheets now you have weight that's how we we are layers and we have to add more to those layers there is nothing quick you know when you know you are going to get there when you are sovereign when you feel like I don't need anyone it's wonderful to have human beings around me and I think the connection is wonderful, but if your goal is I need someone to complete me you're done and I think it's so wild too because I'm thinking about my youth while you talk about yours when I became sovereign like where I am as I am good enough I am good as I am you you become a magnet I became a magnet people like well I wanted I want to be close I want to be close to her everywhere people like her What is it like?

Because I believe in myself, but it took me a while to believe in myself and when you became Sovereign, yes, everyone was like that, but how did your behavior change those micro behaviors? I stopped chasing things and people, yes, I stopped seeking approval. I stopped trying to please people and just TR. I trusted myself. I also stopped taking inventory of everyone, asking everyone for their opinion and thinking too, but I also had to deal with a lot of rejection. Many like rejection. Many people don't. I agree with me, there was a lot of gossip growing up, I took a lot of hard hits and those things made me resilient, those things taught me to like, not, you know, stay my course, like you know, and I've shared this before , but when I became an officer or joined the NYPD.

The community of friends and the people I had around me thought it was ridiculous, they thought it was stupid. I remember when I started dating after I became an agent, there was this guy, a friend of mine. A good friend of mine, the brother, she was trying to hook me up with him before my husband, my husband, knew everything and, uh, uh, so I said, “Okay, you know he was a good Greek boy. "I'm Greek. I'll stay." I'm going to keep him in the community because you're supposed to, so I'm talking to him and I'm like, yeah, and I think I went through a lot to become a US Secret Service special agent and you?

I know he told me it's like, hey, when you get married, you're going to quit that job and you know, get rid of this. I mean, how long are you going to do this? He talked about it as if it were nothing, as if it were trivial. and I heard that and I thought, wait, what a guy, man, you couldn't get into the Secret Service if, like, with your like, there's no like, with all your might, and when he said that to me and his job, he owned it. of the restaurant and he owned a restaurant food his success was wealth and money and some cultures, including mine and the community I was in, measured success with money as if what I was doing was not successful, but I had the ability to be sovereign enough to like not listen, I just said no, that's not my belief system, my moral compass and, um, I stopped caring, then I dated another guy who I knew was in the Service Secret and I really like this guy, it was this Italian guy and I'm thinking.

He's going to be so proud of me. I came in and we had this date and he had just broken up with someone. Stephen like he's so uncomfortable with me. Because? Because I was an agent. That was like a freak show. It was strange. I think today it's a little different maybe at that time and do you think men fight with strong women? I think certain men do. I think men who don't have confidence in themselves, if you're stable, you don't care who you are. I was cheering them on. I ended up dating and marrying an agent, so because my husband is so assertive and self-sovereign, I could do anything and he would say, "You had your first child at 45.

I had my daughter at 40." . Excuse me 46 my daughter is 18 months old her daughter turns 18 and she just can't get out of bed she's lazy she's blaming the world she says listen this is this person's fault and this person's fault and I know I just No It bothers me where you start, look, if I've done a good job and my husband and I have done a good job and again, it's not 100% us, hopefully we should have put certain structures in place at that time. To avoid that, I will give you a small example. I have never put an iPhone in front of her.

I don't have a working TV in my house because I control what it absorbs, not the Internet, and I'm going to hold on to that for as long as possible because I've seen with these cell phones, I'm an adult and I look at things and they shock me and I think that I can't watch this or I'll unfollow things or I'll go to social media I don't want to see it. I cover news. I cover

children

's crimes. I cover really atrocious things. And there are times when I make the news. I do the news. Stephen. I don't see them, so there are little things. that I can do it up to this point 18 months is a lot more work for me and my family there is no social device there is no cell phone that I control I look at it I want to know what is feeding his mind the way I choose to prepare food for him.

I choose what comes to mind. I control it. Many parents will come to me and I will tell them if they don't feel comfortable leaving their child in the middle of Time Square to talk to anyone. you take that out of their hands because now someone else is putting ideas in your child's head. I have no control over that zero and that's powerful that's one and we especially see it affecting little girls and again I'm a grown woman and social media. It shocks me and the moment I put that thing away, there's no TV in my house because TV is like when I was a kid, you had cartoons on Saturday morning, that was it and you had to wait for those cartoons, I mean , was. like tomorrow's cartoons so this instant gratification process that kids have that's why you're here like help me listen fast she's never going to learn to work hard she's going to be lazy she's going to stay in bed she's going to get depressed faster she's going to have anxiety , so I'm doing everything I can to impact those things, they're little seeds, they're little things, so when I'm 18, I hope in my heart I've done the best I could, but I also understand that I'm 50. % she is 50%, so as much as I try to help her navigate, she will be her own person and I will have to listen to her, understand what her value systems are and what she cares about, but her exposure to them is so-so.

I regulate it. Even the school she's going to, I sit there, I'm already thinking about where I'm going to put her in school and no, I mean, I want her in a public school, I don't know. I don't want her to be like mom. I want a Gucci belt and you know, tags and all that. I thought. I don't want her to think like that. I want her to have a different mindset. I'm like this. creating in my head how I do that, another thing I do, super small, I take her to say hello with me every summer.

Do you know where we go in Greece in the town? Town I'm talking like a bathroom in the back hard like a rug inside my parents grew up in towns that I grew up in that I lived in in the summer June July August September I was in the town in fact the bathroom was connected to the chicken coop? Would you let her fly business class no the only time I fly business class is when someone else pays why because I'm saving my money because business class is expensive because I work really hard and I can sit in the back so in class executive there has to be a very good reason why I'm going to split that money on business class for myself let alone my economical daughter, my poor little girl has the right to grow up and I like that you can keep all your stuff for yourself, um , one of the things we were talking about before.

We started recording was that your favorite days are when you exercise, you go to the gym, why is it so important to you? Why is exercise so central to everything you do in your mind? I think there is a school like The mind and body are two separate things and many people think that I am working on my mind. I listen to podcasts, which is great, but then they don't work your body and these things live together. I learned this on the Secret Service it's like these things are married so if you're down and you're not getting off the couch there's a problem your body needs help I work with uh I train with Don Saladino even I with all my experience, as sometimes.

We need someone to push us and responsibility is a very important thing, so I always tell people that if you are struggling, have someone take responsibility for you. Don, who I work and train with, makes me take a photo of every meal I eat and send text messages. She tells him: I want to see what you're putting in your mouth, and every time I'm about to eat something I shouldn't, I think I have to send this to Don so he can keep an eye on it. Having someone help you is a good thing too, but your body is your temple, you get one of these, we take better care of our cars than we do this and then we wonder why I'm depressed because you have to move this, you have to be careful.

That's it, everything in the US Secret Service was about performance this is your your this is your home houses your mind houses your soul and we treat you like trash and we give you trash when I run and exercise at night all the time. stress I'm like any other human being, I accumulate stress, people's anxiety comes at me and I need a way to release it, so at night I go for a run and let it out. There have been times in my life where I could think of two different times where I remember one time and I don't remember what it was, but I had a very stressful and hard day.

I went to the track to run. I remember it was very cold, it was winter, it was snowing and I was like I was on edge. out of pure emotion and rage I started running it was like talking to myself I was running I'm rolling my eyes they're going bald I look like a crazy person to the worldexample of when they don't listen to you well then I would tell you when you speak you look at people when you speak you project your voice that's called paralinguistics everyone is so focused on what they say like reading my notes or When reading my agenda, they don't think about the tone of the voice.

How are you doing this? Are you projecting your voice? Do you?do you talk like that when you talk I have a question I just want to share something that people will like to be clear about I have a question or even just the tone how do you finish hello I'm heavy hello heavy it feels different mhm those are simple things you can do to make sure people listen to you, the other thing is I say this a lot when I talk to companies because communicating is a big thing, don't talk just to talk, there's this thing, especially with women, where it's like making sure that listen. you make sure your voice is heard at the table.

I'm fine with that. Do you have something beneficial to say or valuable to say? Because if you don't say it, you don't say anything in half the meetings I go to. I don't speak because Maybe I don't have anything to say, it's very interesting. I've been in a lot of boardrooms for many years, probably 15 years in marketing boardrooms, not 15 years, about 10 years in marketing boardrooms with CEOs, my team and a lot of different people. from different teams I have had thousands and thousands of meetings eventually I notice something in me that is a little bit of a bias that I have, which is the moment when someone speaks based on their contribution score, which is like a credit score based on all the contributions you made in the past in those first few seconds, if all your previous contributions were valuable, everyone in the room would stop, look and bow, but if you developed a low contribution score because you continually talk the talk.

Yo. they just like I'll give you an example um in my office in New York in the past there was a guy we were brainstorming trying to solve a problem and he would start talking and you you I see from the way he started talking that I hadn't really thought about what I was going to say and I was like, how about we put an I don't know like a popup and maybe do something? Tik toks uh and honestly what I observed from that individual is that every time they open their mouth people would basically like to dismiss the idea

instantly

because they had such a low contribution score and like we all have a contribution score , you have one, I have one.

Based on the last 10 years when we opened our mouths, how valuable it was to the people around us, like that individual, every time EV spoke, I would see the person sitting next to him, who I will not name, almost like crazy, He rolled his eyes in the first five seconds and I turned it off before he could get it out and then this other guy came to my office from the UK called Paul, he never spoke like he'd never said anything, super mature guy and super experienced in the moment he said something because every time he opened his mouth it was important and valuable and he considered everyone going, he could interrupt anyone, instant silence, everyone looks at this guy because when he contributed we all knew he had something valuable to add and I, so I was telling my team I said this to this team here with us in New York, just make sure you project your contributions well, I think that's such a brilliant way of saying it, yeah, you're problematic, yeah, it's like If it were your score because people keep an eye on you, yeah, they know Stephen is going to say something he doesn't always talk, but if he's going to say something every time he drops something, he drops something of value where people think I have to talk. because everyone tells me I have to do it. speak make my voice heard don't shut up and if if you shut up then you're not worth it that's what people think they think you didn't add anything very good you didn't take anything away either if I'll tell you this Also Stephen, when I go to meetings there, sometimes I go to meetings and if I'm the dumbest person in the room, I'm the happiest person.

MH, that's the only time I'm happy because I'm like, look at all of these! There are smart people around me and I can be part of this. I can hear. I love to sit and listen. There are times when I just met with my script agent, Sylvie, with my manager about some TV project and I knew enough to know. I'm like they're like hey, this and this and I was like, you know what this space is. I don't know. I will follow your example. Inform me. I'll sit in the back. You talk. I'm going to tell you a little secret that there is in the CEO Diary Cup, this cup that is placed in front of me when I interview these people sometimes for 3 hours and sometimes three people a day and the answer is this perfect T that I invested. in the company at Dragon's Den and have since gone from an idea to the fastest growing energy drink in the UK.

It's a mature energy drink and it's absolutely delicious, but that's not why I choose to drink it on this podcast. I choose to drink it because it gives me what I call energy for the entire day. I don't have the same crashes I used to have with other energy drinks if you're in the middle of a conversation or you're in the middle of it. from a talk on stage or in the boardroom the last thing you want to do is have a breakdown, you don't want the jitters and you need to focus and that's why they are now sponsoring this podcast not only is it delicious but it gives me a major competitive advantage if haven't tried it, go to a Tesco, go to Waitrose or go online and use the 10 code diary at checkout and you'll get 10% off and when you try it let me know how it goes.

You are someone who by default takes responsibility. You know what the operation is, quite the opposite. I guess taking responsibility is becoming a victim, which we talked about a little bit before we started recording, but people don't like taking responsibility, it's almost like that. it's like holding a mirror up to yourself it's much easier to go through life blaming the world blaming the government blaming circumstances luck parents the guy who did it to me my ex-boyfriend my ex-husband it's a much easier way it's much more comfortable for most people for many people I guess I sat down with a guy named M many years ago and the first time he appeared on my podcast he told me that when he writes a book, he gets 500 people, random members of the public, into a room.

Google document and read it and for some reason when people get to the section on personal responsibility, about 10% of people just click because they don't want to. read that because nothing is my fault, they don't want someone to tell them they can change their life and I've always found it very strange that people don't want to know that some people don't want to know. that wherever they are now and wherever they want to be will be largely based on most circumstances, not all of them will be based on what they do now and tomorrow and the day after.

There's something about victimhood that eases our self-blame and makes us feel justified in our misery, you know, but some people want to live there, it becomes their identity, so I'm like this, I'm like this today because of this. That happened to me a long time ago. I remember working with this woman, there was a window during covid when people wrote to me and I thought I was calm, let me do consultations and I did consultations with mentors and this woman came to see me and I received people like what you are talking about from time to time , usually when most people came to me knowing what they were getting, but I had people come in who just wanted me to validate that someone else did this to you or that you're okay if you feel this way.

This woman came to me. She was a therapist and she came to see me and she told me about some difficulties she had when she was young. I think what she had was that she grew up without money, it was very traumatic, she had to take care of her brother and there was a term for I forgot that it was a clinical term and because of that trauma today she has all these problems and she says: I have a hard time speak in front of people. I have anxiety and she was telling me these things. I said: why don't we go?

What's wrong with you here, let's leave it there, I said, and let's see what we're doing because you're telling me I want to function in life but it's like you just bought this new Porsche and you' It's like this thing doesn't go over 50 or 60, because because I have this big U-Haul attached and it can't, so why don't we leave this back there and move? Go ahead, would you believe Stephen? She lost her mind. She says: How dare you? How dare you dismiss what I've been through? How dare you read the room? I will never forget her and the thing is she was so much a part of who she was today.

She defined it so much that she didn't want to leave it behind, she just wanted to talk about it more and sometimes why people don't want to leave it behind, do you think because it's her identity, it's who she is, it's like? people who have been through something, um, an experience, I'll give you another example on 9/11, so I was in the World Trade Center on 9/11, I survived, I was almost killed, I lost colleagues and friends, but I was also surrounded by Other people who experienced what I did. Experienced and different people behave differently and there were some people who approached me.

Remember this guy who was a doctor and saw what I saw, he experienced what I experienced and he just couldn't recover and was calling me. he's like hey I'm struggling I'm struggling and I tell him I think his name was Jerry I'm like Jerry I'm like leave it that's it we're here it's like where we're going and he could No, and all he did was talk about it and the other thing. What he did was go to therapy for a long time and I was like, dude, I don't think you should go to therapy about this, stop talking about it.

It was like you were reliving it every time, like therapy is supposed to be. It is a hypocritical oath. Do no harm, like therapy is supposed to help you move on, but if I was like I went to therapy every week and talked about 911. It would be a disaster. I thought, leave it where it is in the past and what do you do with what we experience and how we move forward and how we help other people and I like that it was a scenario where I thought if you keep reliving this trauma like you become him and it was him. , it was him, he stopped being a doctor, he, his marriage, he got divorced, like his whole life was falling apart, but do you know he wanted to stay there? he didn't want to leave it, it was what it was, it defined who he was.

I met another guy. I shouldn't say friend, but I met another man who knew he was an iron worker. A good guy who does a lot of things around 9/11 but I remember I once interviewed him for a news story, he didn't know anything about me. This was used strictly as a journalist after I left the Secret Service and what we were doing was a 911 piece. I didn't say anything because of course, it's not about me, it's about him. I remember miking him and doing things and getting ready to do my video with him. He had like 911 tattoos all over his arms and like he had a 911 room.

He said to me: Let me show you. my room and again I didn't say anything I remember thinking I'm like I can't I would never tattoo the towers on my arms I was like I can't I'm like what mental mindset are you going to be in and he had a room with all his 911 stuff, I was Like, I don't have a W Value, it's not like it's under my bed, my dad had taken it, hung it up and then when he passed away, I took it and put it up. Far away again is under my bed.

I think these things like there are certain types of people, Stephen, that they want to be attached to. This is his story and when they meet you, they will tell you. Know? I would have been through what I'm recovering from this I'm surviving because of this you meet those people because that's their identity they've become who they are and they don't know how to let go and that's okay, but that's not for them for me, what? What is the harm then in not letting go of our trauma and embodying it and allowing it to become our identity?

What is it stopping us from doing because I'm not a 9911 survivor? I'm heavy, that's something I experienced one day in my life and you're going to tell me that one day you find out who I am for the rest of my life no, if you do, what's the harm who you're going to become I'm going to be It's going to be a disaster I'm going to be afraid to go to a tall building I'm going to be afraid to get on a plane 3 weeks after 9/11 I got on a plane I thought oh no no no no no this is not killing fear fear while It's still small, it's not going to become a monster.

I got my ass on a plane. I thought, "I can't, no, I can't control everything in my life, but I can navigate to the end of my life." Life to a certain extent not all of it I'm not going to be at the mercy of the world I can take ownership to a certain extent Stephen but I have to choose to want it not everyone wants it but I also have you and me or whoever has to have enough intelligence to see that when someone is like that just let them, they don't want you to fix their problems, they want to be there, let them be there, however if it's someone you're looking to hire, date or hang out with.

Now you decide if he's someone I want to be with because he's not good for me, those are two different things. I want to go back to this 911 thing, but it reminded me of a conversation I had with someone recently where they were telling me. He told me all the problems in their life and the problems they were having with a particular job they have and I remember asking them. I asked them if you chose that job well and you can leave. HEThey were very offended by the idea that they had a choice like and they finally admitted to me that they could leave and it would be fine because they have enough money and they interviewed for that job and they accepted it and they could leave too, but they were not interested in Choice, as I remember have said, I never did.

This is a good friend of mine. I remember telling them: why don't you want power in this situation? Why don't you want to have power? As I could see in them, they wanted to lose power, they wanted to be powerless, they wanted to be a victim of circumstances, they didn't want to have power. a conversation about the options and the decisions they could make, they weren't interested and I, Jesus Christ, like what way to live, what way to live, not wanting to know because objectively bad things happen to people, you know, traumas, they go through things that weren't theirs, they weren't at fault, but that doesn't mean we can't do something about it, there are two different things like, but you have. want it, some people don't want it, so I think what you'll do is people will come to you and say, Stephen, I need help or this and that, but you'll be able to see who really wants it.

To move on, who just wants to tell him? How could you identify the difference? So the people they call is called being identity and I use this word before, but more in a clinic, not in a clinic, but. more in the way I have learned it through training and my research. I also have a forensic master's degree. Masters in forensic psychology when someone has identity, um, use repeatedly, you will hear them say i i i i many times, you can even see this in an email um, people whose identity tends to be very depressed have a lot of anxiety, they are very self-centered. when they are very emotionally based, so you can spot these people now look, we all visit the land of identity from time to time, as can I do.

Going through something difficult and having a moment in this identity space, but then I say, "Okay, I have to recover," but some people stay in this space, it's like their predominant disposition, so I repeatedly use "I this "I" that I feel I want. I went through that is a red flag, the other thing is they are very emotional, you will see they are linked, there are links to depression, they are usually depressed but they stay in the space, the other thing is people like this get They complain a lot, you know that? when you relive a trauma or you complain or you have a drama like when you get those, you get those cortisol hits, you also get an adrenal hit, an adrenaline hit, you get F3, it's your fight, flight, freeze response, we, we, peak and some people become addicted to that peak.

I'm addicted to trauma. I'm addicted to feeling like it's like last week I was racing a car, I was in a Porsche and I was racing cars for fun and when you're in the car, you're in the present, right? I'm like I'm looking trying not to hit the cones doing whatever I'm there I'm in the moment but like my adrenaline is pumping I'm looking I've got my f3s on fire and I'm but I'm focused I feel alive so for some people, when they get into this state, when they relive these things and they have these spikes or you see them very motivated by conflict or drama, they get these spikes and that's when they feel in the moment.

They feel alive and you become addicted to it, it also becomes a habit. I was thinking then about this idea of ​​identity and what identity sometimes also seems to give people is that it gives them a community and it gives them a sense of belonging. and it gives them a purpose that we're all searching for, like if I'm an embedded trauma, then I

instantly

have a community of people that you know are going to make me feel like I belong and that's something I don't want to give them. If I give up on my trauma, I end up giving up on my sense of purpose, um, my community, who I belong to, the way the world understands me and uh, and that's, I guess, another reason why it can be as sticky as our Traumas can be so sticky because we, we, build our entire social circle around them, we go to events about them, we're in groups, small social media groups, but I think today trauma has become a badge of honor, Now you actually listen to people. talking and it's like a competition about who has more trauma, that's not who has it, I have more trauma than you, no, I've had it harder than you like, it's a competition of who has had it harder and It has come back like this now we put it on a pedestal I think it is simply the new way of drawing attention to our elements and making ourselves relevant it is like the ego and the state is the ego is the state and it is interesting the sense of belonging to the group In our group, that is a completely different psychological question.

If I'm in a group and I feel like I belong somewhere, it's like G. I'm taking it back to criminal gangs or why people join terrorist organizations, they join because they want to be a part of it. something is not because they are bad people, I want to feel part of a group and that makes me feel relevant, which is fine, but to agree you must also have your sovereignty as a person we love. Be a part of something because we don't want to be out there and alone, but you don't have to be alone out there, but we get hooked on these narratives and now my identity is I'm a survivor of this.

Someone who has experienced this is like no, those are things that happen to me but they are not who I am. I am an evolving thing. I called my book becoming bulletproof because I'm always becoming more. I'm evolving, we're not. I don't stop I don't want to stop I'm never going to get to a point where I know everything every day I learn something What was the most interesting day of your career? When I say interesting, the day you think about and leave, Jesus. That was either unbelievable or straight out of a movie, so I can tell you a story that I don't think I've ever shared, so since I didn't look like an agent, they would involve me a lot as an undercover agent. things that I loved, they were fun and scary, but because I was never identified with an officer, I always felt super safe, so I did this thing where it was another undercover case where they came to me and we were working with the New York police York, it was not like that. my case, but they wanted me, there was an organized crime network.

I think they were Albanians and they were selling passports, original passports and bth certificates to terrorists so they are selling them to help them get into the US and other people who are bad actors so we the agencies found out of this, they want to catch these guys, this guy specifically with this organized crime ring, they're trying to figure out how to get in because they were so good at what they liked that you couldn't get them, so they wanted me to go undercover and pretend to be someone that I needed paperwork so they're trying to figure out how we do it so the idea that we came up with was that I would be someone who had been sex trafficked from an Eastern Bloc country because I can go through that so I started talking by phone.

I was introduced to him through another undercover agent and spoke to him on the phone and had to develop a black oriental accent. I need My papers brought me here since you know my country, uh, because when they traffic people, the first thing they do when they lure you is they take your documents and you can't even get a cell phone. here in the US no paperwork so they take your stuff and then they make you do sex trafficking, you know, sex work or work in strip clubs or both, um until you pay off your debt for bringing them to America , so I pretended to be one of those so you know under that premise I don't have papers so I can't get an apartment I can't get anything I'm at the mercy of these traffickers that until I pay my dues which you never do for him they keep you locked up and then they scare them and tell them that if you say something they will deport you, which is actually not true, however, so I take on this role, I start talking to this guy, I need papers.

Please take my papers, um, very much for the new papers, how did you line up this accent? Did you just go? I studied acting and then, furthermore, my parents are immigrants. I grew up in New York and Queens, so I learned them, but I practice it. and uh, I had to be good because if you're not good, you're going to take a bullet in the head when you meet this guy, so you're going to have to live in reality, uh, because my life is on the line too and that's why I have these phone calls with him he agrees, okay, I will meet you, so my first meeting is passport photos.

I had to go take passport photos. I'm going to meet him and I remember when I met him at his I think he did the construction, it was the exterior, uh, that did us. get to know him It's me, I'm dressed like a dress, I dress like a very young woman, but I also had to put on sneakers because I'm like, hey, if this guy has to do something, I need to be able to do it. to run, so I find him, I bring my passport photos, I go to this place that is a front, hello, I'm here to see, I don't remember the guy's name, they say oh no, he's not here, you'll have to wait. for him then they play with me for a while you know everyone is watching me from the outside but I don't have any wire and we debated whether I should have a wire or not or a gun and I chose not to carry anything so I don't have anything with me which makes me more vulnerable , but my concern was if they ran me through a metal detector or searched me, that would be worse because now I'm in their house and they would kill me.

Right off the bat, so I'm sitting there and waiting for him to finally come, then he tries to lure me into his car and, uh, I had been informed, whatever you do, you don't get in a car with this guy, uh, so I. don't get in the car and I'm like no, no, no, I'm not getting in the car, he says no, we need to talk privately now I have eyes on me and I want to make sure the officers and everyone can see me. so there's a back and forth where I say, please, I don't want to get in the car, you have a passport. phos.

I think it was 5 g. I gave him a 5 grand envelope, here's the 5 grand. Okay, come back in about 2 weeks and he says maybe you'll get in my car, so I come back like 2 weeks later, same story. I met him. I received my passports. He gave me a Polish passport. I won't forget that it was a real Polish Passport and a birth certificate and all that. So I thought the deal was that he needed more transactions with this guy because the more you get, the longer you can hold onto them, but it was so good that we couldn't.

I got whatever we knew he had done, so I was like, hey, I have more friends, can I send you more girls? I'll bring you more girls, so, oh yeah, then I start bringing him more girls, which are these girls, other Undercovers, others. Undercover agents, uh, and cops, we got the NYPD to act, so we went in and did buying and selling transactions until we got enough for the US Attorney to say yes, we caught him and then they came in and, um, I knocked them down that was pretty interesting if you were scared at any point I wasn't because I always felt safe because no one Stephen thought I was a cop no one thought I was an officer he didn't look like one he didn't talk I felt very safe in that point because you don't look like an agent.

I understand how useful that is for going undercover, but it has to lead to people underestimating you in your professional career mhm, yes. and many people I've spoken to I was speaking at a women's leadership conference about a week ago in London and many of the questions from the audience were about the topic of being underestimated and how to deal with that, it was a Dei conference for diversity Equity Inclusion Conference a lot of people who are black a lot of people who are women a lot of people who are from different types of minority groups and on the com the question came up like are you undervalued because of your skin color because of your gender because of something else, do you? how do you deal with that? and um, it's something that I thought a lot about when I started in the business at 18 when I dropped out of college.

I go into rooms and deal with men who are all in suits and three times my age I'm 18 I know they're looking at me with my afro my fake tie like my cheap tie thinking who is this guy but have you seen that underestimation of yourself as a disadvantage or an advantage, is how you choose to see it. I remember I was once in Africa, where I was, Batwan, where I was born, you were born in Batswana, yes, cabaron, yes, I spent a whole month. I've been to Africa a lot. I loved. batswana I remember I had to close the windows because in the hotel because they said the monkeys would come in I was like monkeys I thought it was cool even though I said no I'll leave them open they say no no don't do it.

I want the monkeys to come into your room so I spent a lot of time with Batswana and I was there with um. I did a trip where I went from Batswana to Tanzania and I was with Barbara, excuse me, Laura Bush, President Bush's daughter, she was doing. some, um, some work there, they're non-profit jobs and when I was she was called assistant detail leader so I was like her main person and then I had a team under me so I have my team and I am, I am, I am. holding a briefing, I'm in charge andread this book because it is a really accessible important book that is full of amazing practical advice that we can carry into the boardroom, into our relationships, and into our lives.

Generally speaking, to allow us to become who we want to be, we have a tradition of closing in this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest without knowing who they will leave it for or the question that was left. you inside the Diary of a CEO is What happens to your body health? What have you struggled with the most and what did you do to fix or improve it after I gave birth? Because it was such, my body went through so much trauma that I had to stop. leave it alone and let it heal, oh you know what else I did when I was pregnant?

Because I worked my whole life during the entire time I was pregnant. I didn't exercise, so I guess listen to your body and give it what it needs. I'll tell you Evie, thank you so much, you are a huge inspiration to so many people for so many reasons that I think I would be here all day if I went through the whole list. You are an inspiration for your vulnerability because of the way you articulate wisdom in such accessible and relatable ways and you really know you said you don't like the word but unfortunately you are a role model for many people because many reasons, because your life and your career are evidence to all of us that we can climb to the top of the mountain no matter all the obstacles and obstacles that stand in our way and a lot of that comes down to how we perceive those obstacles and obstacles and also when speaking.

I realize that many of those obstacles and hurdles that stand in our way as we climb that mountain we have placed ourselves and I think that is incredibly liberating. Your book is a must read for everyone, both men and women who are trying to climb their own personal or professional mountain and be more like you said at the beginning of this conversation, so thank you so much for your wisdom, thank you for everything the work you are doing and thank you on behalf of everyone you have helped, thank you Stephen, how many of you started thinking about your long term health when you hit your 30s?

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