Robert Greene Interview with Patrick Bet-David (The 48 Laws of Power)

I'm Patrick, I did a video presenter for Value Taming and today we have a very special guest with us, the author of the infamous book 48 Laws of Power, Robert Greene, thank you for joining us today. It's a pleasure, Patrick, thanks for having us. time, but I'm glad to finally be here, it took us 12 years, we had a good time at Raffi's house, yes, a lot, and it was a good conversation that was probably prior to the

interview

, you know what we talked about, hopefully. We're going to change the world together you and I someone should have recorded someone should have recorded what we talked about but you know it's interesting, it was in 2003 mm-hmm Robert.

A friend came up to me and his name was Ben and he says Patrick, there's a book you should read, but it's a secret that you can't tell everyone because it's a very

power

ful book, but if I tell you, you can't recommend it to anyone. further. I told him: what is the name of this book? He sneaks out and goes to the back of his car and says that the book is called 48 Laws of Power but I promise you that you're not going to recommend it to anyone. Well, he recommends it, he recommends it to me and I started reading and I said what? amazing book you know with 40

laws

of

power

and then from there you know obviously 33 war strategies art of seduction mastery 50th law last year or book club we read that your mastery was about a thousand people who read the book together Phenomenal book but come on I jump right into this, so this is what I like to do.

First, I like to know who Robert Greene was before how the inspiration started. There are some general questions I was asked through social media and I have some specific questions for you. book and it'll go from there, so Robert Green, who was Robert Green in high school, who was almost a lost kid, had long hair, you know, and I was kind of weird, I didn't fit in, you know, I went to a kind of a surf school at Palisades High, a lot of blonde kids, sir, it wasn't a very intellectual environment and I loved books, and by then, even then, my head was in the clouds, so I just didn't fit in, but I have , you know, some good friends.

I had a pretty close-knit family and, to be honest with you, I got into drugs, which continued into college, so for a little bit of high school, kind of in a cloud, I got A's, I never got a B the whole time. my life and then drugs helped you get better. angel, I don't know how I did it, I don't know how I did it, particularly in college, but I think knowing that I had a love for knowledge kept me alive, kept me straight, you know, I just wanted to read about everything that I do. I don't know what would happen if I understood what I was reading, but I loved reading about history, about war, about supporting you, I like reading about him.

I know, I tell my mom she remembers this story when I was 13 12 years old, maybe I had a list of books that I wanted to order from this type of company that shipped books for young readers and I had like 20 books that I started, half of them were about wars and battles. I loved reading about the war when I was a kid, so he was a bit of a lost kid. I don't know, if you saw a picture of me back then, you wouldn't really recognize me. Can we really find it in him? Oh, my wife has it as a photograph of me in her office.

She had long hair whenever people came over, she said look, this is what Robert looked like and I, oh, let me ask her how he looked like Peter Frampton. I'm really curious to see him because you look like a Hollywood actor, so he would do it. Be curious in some ways, you looked at high school, but let me ask you, were you there, was it your father, was it your mother, was it an uncle, was it someone who inspired you? You would want to read history, that was just your point, that's something I'm talking about. about mastery mm-hmm I have a chapter, the most important chapter in the book is about your life's task, discovering what you are meant to do in life, which I think is the most important thing for anyone in anyone's life and I go In the book I tell all these famous people and the moment when they were three, four or five years old and they discovered what they love like Einstein with the compass or Steve Jobs passing by an electronics store and the point in the book.

Is there no real rational explanation for why people are attracted to something? I can't give you a rational reason why I was attracted to books, literature, my father is not like that, he was a businessman, they sold him chemical supplies, my mother was a housewife, you? I know they loved to learn, but neither of them were readers or intellectuals or anything like that. I can't explain it to you. There is no rational reason. It's just something that attracted me. There was something inside me that was just drawn to the story. I know it was like. history, I'm just fascinated by anything in any culture, any period and in literature, so there's nothing like I can't say why, like that, with that, because you talk about this also in master's.

I'm curious if maybe you can allude to a little bit more is do you think certain people you know end up doing something incredibly cool? You know, I'm talking about something that's out of the ordinary. I mean, you didn't write a book that sold 50,000 copies, it sold millions of copies. all over the world they are all international bestsellers. Do you think that someone doing incredibly great things in their lives is something they are born with or is it events that affect them? Is it an influence? Is it an inspiration? Do you know how they say leaders are born? or leaders are constructed what your opinion is on it well like anything in life it's a combination of things there's no simple little formula so first of all genetics definitely plays a role and I talked about it in mastery, so why am I attracted to books?

Why is it Tiger? Woods was drawn at the age of 12 months or 14 months attracted to golf etc. There is a genetic reason for that. There's something about the way your brain is wired. There is a great book. I think it's Howard Gardner called The Five States of Mind. I don't think so. I don't know, I'm quoting it correctly, there are five forms of human intelligence, kinetic, mathematical, etc., etc. Each person tends to have a dominant form of intelligence and they are good at why it is genetic. That way, it's not necessarily something that comes from your parents and it could come from a long time ago in your past, that's an important component and then the key in life is to be aware of what makes you different from what attracts you. naturally of these. what I call them, I forgot my word in the book easy inclinations, these primal inclinations but of course experience is equally important from your teachers, your parents, the environment you live in, from the people you meet as you grow up.

You have a huge impact on yourself if you put all that together and it makes you who you are if I hadn't met Joe Stell for the first time when he was 35, the man who ended up packaging the 48

laws

of the power I could have had. knowledge and some brilliant wisdom about power, but I would never have written the book because I met him, so luck, you didn't have plans to read, write a book, not really, so luck comes into the picture, you know, there's a element of luck. don't choose your parents, don't choose that you were born in Iran, all these other things come together and you know, obviously, initiative and effort and something inside you and willpower is the most important thing, your level of perseverance, not anything intellectual. but then there is an element of luck, blind chance and genetics that comes in and plays an important role, so the part about desire, willpower, can affect a generation by the standards of a government or the media. that also has an effect on that the firepower in the belly yes, you definitely know the United States in the 19th century when you were a child, the myth of Yankee ingenuity, the whole work ethic, it was a communal thing, people believed that a through hard work that is what made you come to the United States and you know that young people were raised with that.

However, I believe that some people are born with a higher level of ambition than others. You think ambition is really. Yes, there are statistics that show it in a group of one hundred people. five will be leaders, they show, there are studies that show the 5% rule, which is essentially my percentage of people who are natural leaders, it does not mean that the 90 to 5% are all just followers, there are other places, other roles for the people, but there are people who have more ambition, more hunger. Some of it just comes from genetics and some of it comes from culture.

Definitely, do you think when you said you know what it was like in America where you came here? Immigrants came to you if you Work hard, you can have the life you want, you can have it all, if you are a hard-working person, do you think maybe millennials or Generation Y also subscribe to that philosophy? No, I do not think so. a lot of that has been lost, I mean, for my new book and for all my books I did a lot of history and if you look at any great culture or empire, there is inevitably a period of decline.

I have a student of ancient Rome. Rome began to decline at a point more or less before Julius Caesar, too much money, too much success, a generation is born that lives in luxury, they expect everything to be given to them and in a period of a hundred years Rome basically falls apart, you can see that in the Spanish Empire, you can see in England, it's probably happening in the United States as well, it's kind of a cycle and young people also don't grow up with the same kind of hunger and drive that I know. my father, whose family were second generation immigrants who had, but when I go to a country like on my trips to Russia or India, I see people there who are really hungry for an upper middle class lifestyle and they are extremely driven to go to school and learn and improve, so I think America is there, there are some problems ahead and a lot of them are why I wrote master's degree.

I wanted to show you here is a model, this is a formula, it is not rock, it is not magic. It's been real since the beginning of time, since human beings have been what we are, this is the kind of path that people have followed to become absolutely spectacularly brilliant in their field, math, sports, whatever it is, it's a road here, it's because there are so many people. Nowadays they think it's just a matter of luck or who, if you can go to Harvard or if your parents can't afford to send you to a good school and you're screwed or you have to be born like Michael Jordan, no, none of that.

It's true, it's all about what you do with your own natural talent, it's interesting, so going back to what you said with hunger, what do you think is the cause that we are a generation, maybe lose hunger, like You said, hunger is not the same? He said your father came here as an immigrant, you know, working building something, the work ethic, what caused this generation to lose hunger, you know, if I had the answer to that idea of ​​Patrick, Billy, it's complex, I don't like to simplify things, it's one of my things that bothers me. I don't like simple answers to things and you know some of them come from a very fundamental belief.

Do you believe that through your own efforts through education through awareness through thinking through reflection you can improve yourself? Sirius, right in the center of your gut, do you believe that because some people will say yes, but they don't really believe it, they think inside that it's luck, their circumstances, you know who, what school you went to, etc., and then yes Can you know that maybe there is a drug that will make me feel good so I don't get depressed? People who believe in crutches don't believe it comes from somewhere inside. I think you can make a division here and there.

Really? deep down you believe that through your own efforts, no matter what happens to you, you can improve through learning, etc., and we have lost that many people have lost that deep sense of connection to that, not in a verbal way like I. I'm telling you that you feel this way so that this part can finish a book of 48 laws. You talk about what special companion of Alexander is one of two people, one of them was his mother and I wonder if Aristotle was right where his mother had this unwavering belief and the fact. that this guy is going to something special with his right life and then he has Aristotle who taught him how to control your emotions how to stay stable how to make better decisions rhetoric all that is teaching do you think I have that hunger that you are saying is lost you have to Have that deep hunger in your stomach on your fire do you think someone needs to sell me that?

Do you think someone needs to impose that belief on me from above maybe it's the country from above? they were the greatest country in the world and in the United States of America, you can do whatever you want, you can go out and do you think that sales message is the reason why the generation of Americans who were so optimistic that anything was possible and maybe we're not selling that concept anymore or you think it's just a one-man show where Millennials aren't as motivated anymore. I know you have a question. I know this is much easier than a lunch question. you have, well, you know you can't sell it, it's like a culture that evolves when people come to America in the 19th century, it's a hard life, it's apioneer, it's agriculture, they make a living in a hostile environment, they still are.

The Native Americans are there to kill you, etc., and you had to work like hell to get what you wanted, so there's no salesman out there, a Dale Carnegie who says, look, here's America. It was just natural that they came up. , so you don't think a lot of Iranians were convinced, you don't think Kennedy convinced us how great we are, he did, if those things matter, those things are very important, but there has to be, it's like, let's say, I. I am a farmer. I want to plant seeds so that the trees will grow. If I start throwing them into the sand, nothing will cure their owner.

It has to be fertile soil and right now there is no fertile soil, so I always talk about Kennedy, you were for me. the last real president who did what I think a president should do created a myth, the myth of the new frontier that we Americans were going to return to our pioneering spirit, would focus on the race to lunar technology, etc. , and we're going to be what our ancestors were very powerful and we're still living off the things that Kennedy was talking about from the beginning about the new frontier, those things matter and Reagan, what Reagan said and Clinton, etc. , these things are very important, but there has to be a culture that is receptive, there has to be an ethos that comes from below, that is what you are born with, that is what your parents instill in you, if that is not there, no amount of sales will make it that way. that of your parents ethos of your parents So, the parents did the work that Alexander's mother did to inject that belief and then they could interpret Alexander's father, Philip of Macedon, well if there had been a Philip of Macedon or his mother would have It's just been this crazy element.

Plus, of course, of course, you know that, but there was a part about your first laws never outshining your master, there was an element that she also wanted, I mean, you know the whole story of how it worked, but it's interesting. that someone asked you this, let me ask you since we. It's all we've completely deviated from the general questions, we've jumped right into them because you know I'm talking about that graph, you think you know it, so we're going to get into it, but you know there's a question here to you, okay? So what caused it?

The United States has long, I mean obviously, free market capitalism. I live in Iran, so Iran went from imperialism to dictatorship, what happened with the Revolution and you saw when Russia and some of these countries tried to subscribe to communism with the inspiration of the book is the Communist Manifesto in the United States said: let's do free market capitalism, you come here, you work, you can build a good life if you're willing to roll up your sleeves and get to work, you can have a chance to build your American life. I dream of all these immigrants from all over the world.

I have to go to the United States. I have to go to the United States. We have 45 million immigrants in the United States. Number two is Russia with 11 million. Do you think the role? And again, this is not going to work. whether it's a yes or no, I'm just curious what you say about this, the role of free market capitalism is that people play a very important role, one is the individual who maybe sells the dream, dates the concept of creating something and then it's you. We know collective effort, so we can't just come out and say hey, you know, maybe during a president's mistake it's all about individualists taking care of the rich and in another generation it's just about collectives, how do we? do you think we? balances those two as a country where it doesn't just lean one way or the other, well, I mean, America has always been an individualistic culture, um, and that's its strength and you have to play to your strengths, we've never really been a collectivist mentality and you're going to drink, so no, not at all, you never go to any other country in the world, that's the first thing they talk about, sometimes you need a stranger to tell you who you are, wherever you go.

The United States is a country of individuals. an individual spirit, particularly in Europe, when you compare countries like Spain, Germany or England to the United States, that's what we're known for, is that war is a bad thing, oh no, it's a great thing, it's a great thing and Of course, all countries exist. It has great individuals with a short individual spirit, so these are generalizations, but in general I think that type of spirit I'm going to develop my natural genius, who I am and I'm going to create something great, whether it's a business or you know books or architecture and In that way I am enriching the culture that for me is the American dream.

You do something as an individual, you know that knowing that you are enriching society in general in other countries is the opposite mentality, everything is oriented towards the social and the individual does not matter as much, so you don't really have that feeling that if you're someone with a lot of ambition and you want to create a big business, it's almost like you feel guilty. You are ashamed, you feel dirty because your first thought is to realize your own ambition and it is not to collect, these are generalizations, but I think that is the strength of the United States and now you go to a country like France, which is going through a lot of things. of economic problems in Europe there are all the countries there are so many barriers for an entrepreneur it is outrageous it is surprising that they have been able to survive so long that they have economies that function as well as they are um things are much better here than anywhere in Europe, by far , maybe anywhere in the world, so maybe we don't have, we shouldn't complain so much, do you think that could also be a reason why we are lowering our standards because we keep comparing ourselves to other countries where we are doing better, at least we are doing better than believer in looking at what is good what is its potential and stop complaining and woe is me among the intelligentsia here there is definitely a feeling of what Carter's word of malaise was in decline cetera woe is me I don't like to think like that I think There is tremendous energy and maybe it comes from a lot of the immigrants that come to the United States, so I don't know that in 20 years things could be bleak, but I'm a part of a lot of help, so the immigrants are bringing hope to the country.

They've always done it, yes, of course, they've always done it, so it showed that the entitlement mentality can really, if we go to the entitlement mentality, hypothetically you know that if we can't, if we all go in that direction or such Maybe there's a hint of you know. That's a little bit going on, you know, I feel bad for myself, you know all those things, how do you change that mentality of entitlement based on what you've studied, what you've seen in different countries, how do you change that mentality outside? ? Getting out of the entitlement mentality is something you know, it's pretty hard to do.

I can see it being much easier to quit. It's almost like imagining if you and I are brothers, okay hypothetically and we are stepbrothers. Now you come from another marriage. father was extremely disciplinarian, okay, and your mother loved you, but your father was extremely disciplinarian, hypothetically, and your father marries my mother, okay, so my mother and your mother are very similar, but my father was not a disciplinarian, okay, so now I'm going from a father who never disciplined me, didn't force me to do anything and now your father comes in and says Patrick, get my act together so you tell me what to do.

My dad wasn't like that and you're used to it. How do we get used to the mentality your father taught you? I think that's something we see, the entitlement mentality, well, it's once again the belief, a fundamental belief that I keep going back to, going back to them, we discussed it a little at lunch in which the 2008 crisis played a important role, if you think that people advance in America by cheating by playing by the rules, you know, how the banks were, etc., that's how you advance in America, it's about that. the elites, if you're on Wall Street you can make millions of dollars, this little guy stays out of this, if you think that's what it's all about, then no, you're inevitably going to have that entitlement mentality. and nothing is going to get that out of you, so it's the connections that you, the individual, make in his mind.

Do you see people out there saying that I'm someone who didn't have a good education? I didn't have the opportunity to go to a big school I come from an inner city where I see examples of people who have been able to get ahead on their own through their own initiative their own drive create a big business their role their actors and role models stay in my community and not have to do with rap or entertainment, but with their business, solid things that employ a lot of people. I believe there is a connection between your effort and your achievements.

If you see enough people in your family in your community, then you start. believe that you yourself can do it and there will be a tipping point where there will be a tipping point where there will be enough of that. We are a culture that begins to develop from within. Yeah, you know, we need it now. the media is okay with that and so where the media you need, you need help, you are already too far away if you need the media, yes really, then you are saying that this is possible without the need for the media, so we live in a culture where people are so saturated with media from the internet etc that it just passes by one ear so you don't think the media has any influence, it might work well but it's minor compared to something that comes from something else deep.

Wow, okay, that's interesting, well why not? Don't we transition? You talk about education, so after high school, Robert Greene, the author of 40 Laws of Power, goes to college, you go to Berkeley Indian with the University of Wisconsin and then you come out and I read that you had about 80 different Johns, but you still 80. different jobs before the book came out, yes, so when you talked to your partner and you decided to write the 40 laws of power, why 48 laws, why not 50 laws, why not 25 laws, how did you Did you come up with a number of 48 laws? Basically what happened was I've been traveling my whole life but I never read the book, I was about 35 and I was in Italy for a job and I met this man, Yost Albers, who is a book packager mm-hmm and he asked.

If I had any idea for a book and all my experience working in the working world, particularly in Hollywood, a lot of bad things outweigh a lot of power plays and I read a lot of Machiavelli, so I just improvised this idea. He got very excited and told me look, write a treatment and if I like it I will pay you to live a year to write the book and I will sell it and while I am researching for it and I am reading Machiavelli I am reading history I am just leaving I am like a demon I am so excited that this book is going to change my life you know and I get there are these are these are these patterns in history and I haven't called those laws, but they are these patterns, if you do better than your superior, if he or she feels insecure about of you, you're in trouble, oh, I've seen that in China, in Renaissance Italy, in modern America, never eclipsed the master and me.

Little by little I'm creating more of these and I end up with 72 and I say, I told the partner I have these kinds of laws and stuff, he says Oh, Robert, it's Dutch, that's your book, the laws of power, okay , if you. You're right, it's a good idea and to me it's like cooking: you take a sauce and you put it on the heat and the more you cook, the less and less it loses a point where it's really strong and the flavor is wonderful. Don't overcook it, but you have to cook it well. I had those 72 laws and they were too many and as salsa improves and I'm learning more, that's how that's how that's how that's how up to 48 and that's how it was. like the heart of that is the really good sauce that is not more and is not less 48 you know what I am so interesting that it would be I bet everyone would be very curious to know the 24 laws that will mark the limit, it would be so nice if you wrote something and You said on the 24th that it didn't make the cut, well, not that, they didn't make the cut where they combine whatever as if nothing was missing, so, for example, I know that I remember one that is about not making promises, it's a Napoleonic idea, Many kings have this idea because if you make too many promises you will have to keep them, so a king, a ruler, should never make too many promises, be very sparing with them.

I was going to have a wall like that I have that it's not the law it's not heavy enough but I can put it in say less than necessary you know I can put it in other laws that's what happened I have it so it leaked from 70 to some of them they were combined because of the way the question was asked because I asked the question on Twitter and we had monkey Awasthi from Norton India Butare Pradesh who asked why 40 laws but I asked the question to a guy from India okay Jerry Titus. came out and said, look at this book, you know this book is not a book that people need to read, it's purely manipulative and that's what our politician, you know, there are some critics, a lot of critics about this book and all our politicians subscribe to this. book and wrote a book that is so disgusting and has so many deceptions, etc., and he saidwho has a question, said that it is half true, a whole lie.

I told him: let me ask Robert a question to see what he is going to do, how he is going to do it. I ask that they answer that question for you. I do not know what that means. Know? I do a lot of consulting, etc., and people ask questions and I say well, what do you really mean? I made Jerry specific, my friend, tell me what that is, what that is in real life, you know, do you know what he asked him? So, Jerry, why don't you ask that question? I'll send it to him and maybe he'll respond to you, but well, on that, but no, I understand what you're saying.

I guess you know when he was coming into this, think about it this way, this is what it is to say, this was my response to him, my response explained his question to me, yes, he's asking a question that you know a politician comes on stage and says you know this or that health care program is not going to work. It costs you a single penny it's going to be free and we find out that a year later it does so what's a half truth is that a lie is okay to do to get power these are questions that drive me crazy of course it's not.

Okay, if we lived in an ideal society, yes, if this were a utopia, yes, it would be terrible, but we don't live in a utopia where humans descended from primates. I can and people lie and politicians tell politicians like I don't know. probably a lot of problem is with people who think we should be something we're done that was my response BAM so people don't Eva obviously when you're a politician he says you should say well I think I know, he's the dish I know a game in the one who is playing with a lot of power, right, yes, you know, yes, so half of the book I wrote to make people less naive mmm-hmm, but I mean to ask you the question of I don't know if this is a question. book evil, okay, I saw here would be my answer first of all humans by our nature want power the feeling that you have no control it's just that we define the word power incorrectly we think of power as a kind of dark force there is between the negative and the positive, oh, but it's always the other person, yeah, we never have power, it's always the other guy that has the power and holds me down, yeah, no, I'm talking about you as an individual, yeah, when you're growing up.

Up in your family when you have siblings and a father you want more attention you want your mother and father to look at you you want the teacher to recognize you you want to be able to influence your parents and your friends you want power you want a degree of control the feeling you have from a very early age that you have no power becomes deformed it makes you neurotic it makes you completely crazy you want the feeling that you have control over your destiny over your circumstances that is the formula that is the The definition I give of power, the other thing is That we humans really love power, so we love it, it seduces us, that's why shows like House of Cards, which show all those dark and ugly things, are so popular that we love to hear about them.

We love things that happen, but just physically, if we go to a place of power, let's say a big Hollywood studio, if it transported you to the HBO offices or some amazing office and you'd say wah and you'd be excited. you want to learn, it's worth it, right, we're fascinated by it, we just don't want to admit it, the book is an exposé of what happens in every human environment, you get three people together and their power games combine, I don't know. I know maybe not you, but three people together, there are power games, yes, okay, no matter what, these are the power games that are played in Hollywood, in business, in politics, in the arts, in sports, etc., you may not like them.

I'm not saying that. You're going to like Selective Honesty where I talk about how people use false sincerity to get their way, but you'll want to know about this because people use it all the time. These are the laws that are cut and that happened behind closed doors. doors in all these different areas, if you are an adult you will be able to know how to handle that knowledge in a good way, yes, in my response to him was when you say that all these politicians who go up there and want to say whatever they want to say to win our vote and those guys subscribe to this book, don't you think you need to read the book to know that there are strategies for what's right?

First of all, let us correct a misconception of these people that We are talking about politicians in India or anyone like Berlusconi or Hoonah. They don't need the 48 laws of power. They don't need to read them. It's in your DNA. If they have to read a book, they already do it. to the idea these are the sharks in the world people who are really Sharky, you know, like Aizen, you know, Disney, the ones who cut those ties or Ovitz, these people don't need a book, the book might help them a little. like reading Sun Tzu or things like that, but it's there, they don't need you, Jerry, back in India, you're the one who needs to read the book, not them, they don't even lose 40 powers.

I think this is a very important book. for middle America to read, I think it is a very important book. Look right now, we're sitting here, we're talking about it, since a couple of people died one year, thousands of people will see this video on YouTube, right, but I think for us moderns. Maybe you know I have some books back here that you know you were reading, you know if they are the right impressions or we have Seneca, you know, you and I subscribe to some stoas and we are meditations or an elector 48 laws of you know, or history Will Durant or part of the war, I think, and this is my honest opinion.

I think in a thousand years people will still be reading Forty Laws of Power, that's my opinion, obviously, everything I wish I could be around, I think. This book will have effect for thousands of years. I think it's a timeless book that will be used forever and I recommend everyone read it, so here's another question we'll get into and I'll address some specific questions. I have for you from the book Cancer Now from Dallas, Texas, since it's a very good question here: Who is the one person that fascinates you? Fascinated by the most similar leaders you have studied and who fascinated you the most.

You know it's interesting because every book. What I write there is usually like a major figure or a couple of major leaders and I have to like the people I write about. I want to like them, they are almost like my friends, so each book changes as if by the power I got into. a lot and he really, of course, Machiavelli himself, but Thalia Rond, who was one of the main characters in Teresa because he was very devious, that's very brilliant and if you think about it, here's a man, if you read the 48 laws of power, you will get Many of these who came from the aristocracy in 18th century France live, they survive the French Revolution, they survive the Napoleonic era, they survive the aftermath of the restoration and in each of these extremely radical turns of the events reaches the top.

That's a pretty amazing story. but then each book is different, you know, because of characters of seduction like Casanova, who fascinates me, or Arab or Errol Flynn, these great seducers, so the changes, the war was Napoleon. I am endlessly fascinated by Napoleon because I call him the Mozart of war, of strategy, he had a brain for war and I wanted to find out why, because I don't have one. I read a lot of books about not shooting, they don't really explain why Napoleon, why he was so much better than anyone in history. 10 years, 1796 to 1806, you will never read in the history of the above anywhere in all cultures a more remarkable 10-year period of strategic brilliance than what Napoleon did there, why it fascinated me and in my new book I have to others.

Now that I find our new icons that fascinate me, I got into Lyndon Johnson because he is an absolute master. We also talk about Lincoln Johnson in 33 Strategies. I'm going deeper into them in the new book on mastering Da Vinci. I like any topic I tend to fall in love with who I need to fall in love with there is a lot of falling in love yeah how fallen specific what books what what are some of your favorite books that inspired you you know that was us we were talking a little bit about books could you put one, two or three together ?

Well, obviously Machiavelli and it's not just the Prince, Machiavelli's Speeches is one of my favorite books. I liked all his works, it's a kind of spirit that very few writers have in Machiavelli, he's so honest, he's so honest about humans and what motivates us, and it's so well written and it's so direct, and I love reading it. I love it through Sidda T's story of the Peloponnesian War. Sunsoo is one of my favorites. I love Musashi. I'm very interested in Zen Buddhism and samurai warfare, so many of you know that people like Musashi obviously fascinate me, those are just a few of them.

I mean, I read over 300 books to write one, so they ask me to choose. per month I will have to read from two to 300 books to write a book yes, that is a good number to know between two hundred and three hundred books to write a book yes Wow, you were telling me that I had eight more left before finishing a... an exciting new project, maybe it will give us an idea at the end of the free time what it's about, so let me address some specific questions that I have and I would like to take the books with me because I mark them and in areas.

That's what I want to ask you in 48 laws law number 10 infection avoids the unhappy and the unfortunate yes, it's okay and the judgment that you say that you can die from the misery of another person, emotional states are contagious like diseases, you can feel that you are helping the drowning man where you are only precipitating your own disaster the unfortunate sometimes attract misfortune upon themselves they will also attract it to you you associate with the happy and the fortunate instead why do you think it is so difficult for us to find each other constantly trying to solve the problems of a person who really doesn't want to solve that problem, why do you think it's good, you know there is a.

I talk about it a lot on that channel, so I call them infecting types, there are people who are naturally going to infect you. with her drama with her moon, you know all the things that are happening in a shorter life and I don't have the example of Lola Montez, this is a very beautiful woman who seduced a king of Bavaria and literally destroyed him single-handedly and The reason you're attracted to these guys is because they're very dramatic, they're very charismatic, they have a lot of problems but they give you the impression that they're a victim, you know?

Oh, I've had such an unfortunate experience. Life, this man was terrible to me, my parents were horrible, blah blah blah, they have a lot of energy, a lot of attraction, they are very charismatic and like a whirlpool or quicksand, they draw you into their lives and you just sink. them because you are not aware of the fact that in reality it is not other people who are to blame, it is themselves, right, in their essence they have a void, they have great needs that they will never be able to satisfy, there is something wrong deep down and a chapter say. it's not worth trying to find out why Lola Montez is like that just stay away from them the only solution when you have an infection someone who is in infectious quarantine stay away from them go away don't get involved now people misunderstand that law Think carefully, what about the unfortunate people who don't really have that?

I'm not talking about that. I am not talking about people who are victims of injustice and who do deserve our sympathy and empathy. I'm talking about those other guys and everyone has met them in their life, you call them drama queens whatever you want, they make you believe they are a victim and they really aren't and they bring you down and the opposite side is that we are social animals . and we draw energy from other people in ways that are preverbal. The whole world is the experience where when you are with one person they make you feel a certain way and with another person you suddenly act completely different, right, mm-hmm, we have that animal thing.

We go where we are and if you are surrounded by someone who is positive, who has a good attitude and who believes in what we are talking about, that you can control your destiny, that infects you mm-hm and that is the type of people you want. be close and you know that's very interesting, you say that in this book in and in 33 Legal War Strategies you talk about that and strategy number five avoids the pitfalls of groupthink, okay and it's a part that says I want to fail. your life fails like this happens you are referencing a story before that about what happened to Hamilton when a failure like this happens when a golden opportunity slips through your hands naturally you look for a cause true maybe you blame your incompetent officers your faulty technology your faulty intelligence but that's looking back at the world ensures more failures the truth is that everything starts from the top so do you think that when someone is going through that part where you know they feel bad for me so am I passing?

In fact, you have the opportunity to take that as a source if you take responsibility and fix certain areas to do something great with your lives and took a different route. Do you think that's what happens in that moment for who, for the person that is? In reality they have just gone through a trial or tribulation thatIt happened to them and they want to blame everyone, instead they said: let me see how this situation could have been improved, okay, form roles and move on to the next slide, that's an excellent observation, it's probably true. It's probably seed four, but humans naturally cast an outward gaze when there's a problem, and I explained in my new book why I think that's the science behind it.

When something goes wrong, our first instinct is to look for the word mm-hmm, that person. did this to me blaBla, blah, blah, it happens to me, it happens to everyone, the difference is that you realize in the moment of blaming other people and you stop and say, well, wait a minute, maybe That may not be the case, maybe there is 50% fault, but maybe 30%. and that 30 percent of what you did is the most important thing, not 50 percent, you have no control over the problems but you control what you did and inevitably you are never a victim of something inevitably good, I should never say that there are people who are victims , but most of the time there is something that you did that contributed to what happened and if there is ever a disaster or a mistake or your book doesn't sell, let's say I write a book, let's say the 48 laws of power.

I wrote it in 96, the night comes out in 98 and it's a bomb and I'm not here talking to you. I didn't write it the way I wrote it. I'm going to blame all the millions of people who failed to appreciate my brilliance. no, I somehow didn't write it one way or connect with people, that's the kind of thinking you want to go through and I think you're right, most people do the opposite. Such a good point that these books are so powerful. Here's another one. one that you have here are just I want to say I love it says an oak tree let me say where there is a law 22 which is to use the surrender tactic transform weak incentive you are saying the oak the oak that the oak that resists the wind loses its branches one by one and Without anything to protect it, the trunk finally splits.

The oak that bends lives longer. Its trunk widens. Its roots become deeper and more tenacious. Why is it sometimes so difficult for us to dance with the winds that we have in our lives? Because we all have them, yes. , well, you know that you have to go through accepting many things, there are circumstances that you cannot control and if you are in a business, there are many things that you cannot control if you write. a book you have no control over how people read it and what kind of success you are going to have you have no control over the economy in general or over the global factors of your industry if you go crazy trying to think how you know how to get it all emotional because of all these things you are going to lose your hair you are going to get cancer and you are going to die you have to learn to accept things but more than that you have to learn and this is something that actually my My former protégé Ryan Holiday talks about very well in his books that I recommend reading .

The obstacle is the way that many times mistakes, problems are actually the best thing that can happen to you and that is more similar to what we are talking about with that oak tree. tree there that instead of reacting and turning damn, why did he know what was wrong there and getting stiff and stiff just bend over and say this happened for a reason? He's teaching me a lesson. I made a mistake that I need to learn from. This happened to me when I was writing master's. They wrote four of the six chapters for me, but it took me a long time to deliver it to my editor and they came to me and said, Robert, if you don't finish your master's degree in two months we'll cancel the project oh my god I've been working on this for three years I put my blood and everything I put into it I can't have it but I can't finish it in two months it's the two The most important chapters are all this complicated research where I get it, then I calm down after two days hyperventilating and said I had no choice, I got AB and with this I had to do it and it ended up being the best thing that could have happened to me.

Me because those two months were the best two months of my life. I worked very hard and the ideas came to me in my sleep while I was showering. He had built up so much momentum that ending problems like that ends. being the best you can do is powerful and that was one of our favorite books that we read last year, we read Ryan Holiday it was a couple of months ago this year when we read it, this was the book that everyone was in love with it, it's brilliant. to know what you do with your protégé, okay, next question here, this is my favorite chapter of 33 war strategies, chapter four, I mean, I can't understand it, obviously, that's Napoleon, you know that whole part about him You owe it to death, shit, it's unreal. says create a sense of urgency and desperation the strategy of the terrain of death is correct and I will read the bottom partially cut your ties with the past enter unknown territory where you must rely on your wits and energy to get ahead place yourself in Beth's terrain where your back is against the wall and you have to fight like hell to get out of life.

You know, when I read this, you know what worries me. I am sometimes amazed at how many people are fine living their lives without even knowing the unknown ability they have. Could you tell us about that chapter? Well, it's one of those, oh, really, you know, I love that chapter 2 and it's something that comes from Sun Tzu. He has the expression to put your army on the ground of death and he will fight just like you. There will never be an army that fights like this, which means that if an army has its back to the wall, there is an ocean, they are fighting on a beach and there is a mountain behind them, they either defeat the enemy or they die, there is nowhere where to retreat and they are going to win, is of paramount importance to us because when our energy, our energy level determines what happens to us if we are excited about something if we have to go out if we have to do something If we are successful, we will put in 10 times more energy than if we didn't have it, so sometimes you have to go deeper artificially and that's amazing, you have to say it, so let's say I have an idea for a business.

I'm 24 years old. I think it will be brilliant. It will be a startup that will shake the universe. But I don't think I have the money. My parents don't want to give me the $20,000 and I don't have any. enough experience, I better get a job working for Goldman Sachs for a couple of years, those energy levels when you're 28 now, buh-bah, okay now, but you're 24 and you're like no, I don't have the money. I don't have the experience but I'm going to make it so you go ahead and try it, somehow you raise the money you find on an angel you had now, you better be successful or you will have lost this person completely. money, you are going to try really hard and you are going to put in a lot more energy and you are going to make this happen and if you fail, which can happen, you have learned something, so appreciate it, you will learn more in two years. of failure than 20 years of business school, you know it and you're going to make the next thing you do a success, so the amount of energy you put into something determines the outcome and if you don't feel the need to make it work, you're going. to put much less than necessary, so put yourself on the ground of death.

I love it and the last one I'll ask you here is this strategy number 17, which is defeating them in detail, the divide and conquer strategy. I mean, obviously, that's the main art. of the war Sun Tzu, we always talk about the divisive policeman, you talk about Samuel Adams here and the CEMP is going to read a phrase that Samuel Adams says, okay, who was part of the entire American colony, you know, I think one day I should be like that. When the complete independence of England and the savage governments in the writings of the English philosopher John Locke we heard about, well, he had that obsessive gleam in his eye that makes people think you're a nutcase, right?

And you know, I was talking to you about the couple. of books here where I said you know top-notch madness and the same guy who wrote the book on Clinton, the hypomanic edge where he talks about the comparisons between bipolar and hypomanic and manic and depressive and Lincoln was a little bit, but all these different things What do you think you know when we sit there and we have these schools or these doctors so that the children have the idea that the children have this you have a disease you have this you become hypomanic you have for Papa you have mental problems is what you have and we need to protect this person maybe they are strangling the next Einstein the next Abraham Lincoln Do you think there is a correlation between the obsessive insanity that people think that guy is crazy with someone who does something great?

Do you think there's some kind of a correlation, you definitely know, I mean, I could go on for four hours on this when I talk masterfully about what we said before because of your primary inclination, that's not what I'm saying, it's the ultimate individualistic philosophy. because they are saying that there is something in you when you are born that you were meant to achieve, you were meant to start a business that reflects something about who you are or write a book or do something in politics or whatever and if you cultivate that you are you will end up creating something. which is peculiar to you and inevitably has a touch of strangeness because if you are so individual you are not like the others, you are literally idiosyncratic and that has a touch of madness or whatever you want, but all of the great achievers, if we go back, had moments early in their lives where people thought this guy was crazy.

I mean, the classic case would be Steve Jobs, he's a totally obsessive UPS manic person to the point where he was mentally ill and people thought that and they kicked him out of Apple because they couldn't stand this, it was like toxic, a nightmare, okay, if he never returned to Apple, we would never be talking about Steve Jobs, he would have been a failure or maybe. It's not a complete failure, but it's nothing like what it is now, so all these people have that touch because in the end they know that there is something inside them that is different, they are going to cultivate it and they are going to create a business or they are going to make a discovery that is unique to them and that is pure brilliance and yes in our school system I think a lot of problems are more with boys than girls today because I know myself and a lot of kids when you're really younger you have a lot of energy you're restless you can't really you're eight years old you want to be out there playing or doing something you want to sit there and read and they're sitting there looking at the teachers they We're looking at little kids and they're like, man, I can't handle This kid, let's drug him, let's drug him, you know, be obedient or whatever.

I don't want to generalize so much, but I know that it's more of a problem with a lot of kids whereas, in fact, in my generation they would do it, you would have just gone out to the playground and you would have gotten all your energy out, we have to learn to respect the differences of the people and understand that not everyone is a student. the goal of the master's degree a master's degree is not about writing a book or being an intellectual if you work with your hands or you are Michael Jordan you are a teacher you are an architect or you are the guy who helped build redo the patio of my house he was a teacher it's not about something intellectual working with our hands is very powerful whatever you do you need to be motivated and understand what makes you different that will naturally make you a weirdo and let's celebrate it let's celebrate weirdness, yes, I like that slogan, let's celebrate, that should be the next presidential campaign.

Apple Great Britain Apple had a slow my friend be different yes different why the same no now I had the opportunity to

interview

Steve Wozniak and this was in 2010 before Steve Jobs passed away and it was fascinating Oh Mike, the things that made me He was counting and we, we surprised him with the computer, it's also on YouTube. We interviewed Steve Wozniak and we brought him the computer and you should have seen what he looked like, so we did it. He back in the year nineteen, you know, he was telling you that you had the computer, yeah, one of our friends from DC brought it over and we had him sign it and he took one time that was a really unique, real, one-of-a-kind experience with them, so here's the last thing, so I know you were telling me that you're working on a project, so look, there are very few authors that if they publish a book, I'm reading that book, it doesn't matter who. it's what book it is and the same goes for Hollywood, I would act in a certain movie when you put out a book.

I'm reading that book. I was upset when I couldn't master it from the beginning because you have to maintain the pre-cell phase. I want that book today, right. I was waiting for that book, but I'll get you an advanced copy of the new one. I appreciate that I love it so tell us a little bit about this project that you're working on that you know who we are. We are all waiting to read well, it is called the temperate law, the working title is the laws of human nature and basically it is an expansion of chapter four and the domain of social intelligence, the idea is that we are social animals, we were, by far , the brightest. social animal that ever existed is the source of our power, we are able to understand each other on a level that no other animal could communicate and our success in life depends on our ability to get along with other people and also defend ourselves of others. people who are trying to harm us in any way or compete against us, so our ability to navigate that environment leaves usWe are guessing other people's minds and many of our guesses come from ourselves, our narcissism meggets, we project onto them our own emotions and that is why we constantly miss reading, misunderstandings, problems, failures, disasters, but we are born with an incredible ability to understand people if we learn to develop it through empathy. through a large amount of knowledge to Through understanding these eternal laws of what motivates human beings.

I am going to try to give you these 20 elementary laws right now, you will understand the human animal on a much higher level why people are envious why people are so irrational why people are prone to the success of conformity and groupthink why some people are aggressive and some people are passive-aggressive. I'm going to give you this kind of textbook on human nature and so now when you're in an interaction you're going to look at and understand people differently, you're going to step back and say ahh. , he is presenting me with a mask that makes me feel this way, I know there is probably something else behind it and now I have a better idea because I have this knowledge, in a nutshell, what I hope to do here.

What is the timeline for this robbery? What is the season schedule? Probably, if everything goes well, you know, in like a year and a half, it will be Al Khair in the Most two years, but I hope a year and a half. Well, I'm looking forward to it and yes, you told me something I didn't know about you. I had no idea about your Lakers fan. I am the biggest Lakers fan. He is your key. I'm not saying you don't know what a big fan I am. I'll go back further than I wish I lived in the Middle East when you were looking at me.

I went to a Laker game in 1963. You got my dad to me when he was four years old. old man in the fourth sports stadium in Los Angeles, who was 63 years old, Jerry West, who was Elgin Baylor, before Jerry was God, he was 63 years old, Elgin Baylor, 63, point 1 on the team, but Elgin Baylor is the only person I can remember. His uniforms were blue. It doesn't look like anything huh, I bleed purple ink oh man, I love the Lakers and when they have their streak with Shaq, what was the heyday, those that yeah, those three years are your favorite team, by the way, would you say I love the Magic? to Showtime I got it, but I love those two of my favorites, obviously, um, I couldn't even watch the games.

I was so nervous, you know, I had to have a couple of drinks, haha, I just can't, I'm so neurotic. when they play, I mean, it's not the same now since they suck, but it was so good, oh my god, I can't even watch this, it makes me want to die. The most painful game was Game 7 against the Celtics a couple of years ago. look, I mean Kobe was having a terrible game and our test is coming back and Rondo's head, I mean, you were maybe seven years old, I did some, you weren't even here, yeah, I was in Iran, you know, but the shocks are you. with a plane that we lost against the Celtics back then that I wasn't here or that Don Nelson shot in '71 that he made a last second shot that bounced off the rim so the only Don Nelson I know was the coach I don't know Remember Don Nelson playing, he was a Lakers killer, he does it, he single-handedly beat the lake, very good killer, what a nickname to give someone, so who is your favorite lake riot?

I was into Magic or Kobe, you know, I recently had lunch with Kareem. It was pretty impressive because I grew up as Karima. He's a pretty interesting guy but very, very intellectual, deep thinker. He is a very interesting guy. Magic. I think he is the best player I have ever seen play. I love Kobe. I love Kobe for who he is. imagine where was the best play you ever made, you just had, well I was watching it on the court, the magic name is real, the guy could do things you just can't believe, six nine and acts like he's six feet tall , he's like a six-nine point guard and he makes these passes and he's like a Jenna Field general and he's so creative.

I don't think I've seen Michael Jordan, etc. Magic is the best player I have ever seen in my life. Are you kidding? But. I'm not kidding you're kidding so you're a real Laker fan so you know roughly if Westbrook comes with you next year okay and we get Westbrook and maybe we get the rental or some of the variants will probably go to Washington, but make him whisper because he played here, yeah, if they made a good team, maybe we'd go watch a game on the court, you and me, that would be fun for us students, so anyway, this has been one of the best. interviews I've done I've been waiting for this for twelve years when I first read the book I said I want to meet this guy and I want to talk to this guy and it's been a pleasure having me here.

I won't disappoint anyone at lunch. I wish we could add a longer lunch to lunch because it was a pretty intense and exciting night we were talking about, but you know, if you're watching this right now, I could tell you a couple of things if you haven't read any of his books. , if you have never read any of Roberts' books, I recommend that you pick up each of the books, we have the link at the bottom and the description, and read them at the same time as well. I know Roberts also has a website called power seduction and war comm power seduction and war.com the end is written, you will see and a and D, the link is in the videos, you can see in it that link will be in the description, the description, also go to that website, sign up for their newsletters, keep track of what you're doing and obviously your book, the moment it comes out, we'll probably do something here together and invite you to do it again, it should not be like that?

Great if you come back to do something with that video, but it's been a pleasure having you here with us. If you haven't subscribed to our channel, subscribe to the channel too, but Robert, thank you very much for coming, we had a great time. thank you for your size it is a pleasure for you