Red Bull Racing's Christian Horner on building resilience and self belief | High Performance Podcast

then I created this little guy, what would now be the formula two team, I had to do everything, so I was booking hotels, I was doing VAT returns. paying salaries every Friday, you know, I was booking fuel, paying for spare parts, borrowing so much money from the bank, constantly talking to him every week about the overdraft, the credit card was maxed out for pay. tires and it was a complete juggling act, but you know, I was washing the truck and delivering pizzas at night for the mechanics, so it was a tremendous education for me, you know, going through that just dealing with people and dealing with the pressures of running a small business because at the end of the day I think there were two mechanics, a truck driver and an engineer, and those four people depended on me to pay their mortgage and that was a responsibility even at the age. out of 26.

I mean, it's an incredible foundation for just leading a team and a culture, so what was the most important lesson that you learned in that period of your life that still applies today? It's about people, it's about working with people, it's about making them. Working together is about having the ability to interact with people at any level, whether it's from a sponsor to a truck driver, and having that ability to be approachable. And for me, you know that's something that's always been very important. no one should feel like I don't want to talk to him, he's unapproachable or you know, etc., and I think when you walked a mile in some of his shoes too and you bought some of the pizzas and I washed the truck and I washed the wheels, etc., you know you've experienced some of what they're having to experience and you know what it takes, but ultimately I think just the skill set and that went back to school, I was never the most academic in school.

I also wasn't the best athlete and I'll give you popularity, but I was able to get along with the smart, geeky kids and also the ones you know who were a little more on the spectrum. Also, you know, I think it's just a life skill, to be honest with you, so in this world that you're in now, which is so engineered, emotional intelligence is one of the most important skills in your role, absolutely. common sense at the end of the day, I'm not an engineer, I've never known that, I don't have any engineering degrees, I couldn't tell you how cars are built, let alone how an engine is built, but it's about people. business as most businesses are and it's about bringing a group of people together, empowering them, giving them the right direction, removing obstacles to allow them to do their job and just focus on their job without worrying about what someone else is doing. . or you know what another department is doing and I think that's a skill that maybe you had from the beginning because I remember when I worked in Formula One and I didn't know much about the sport I was talking to.

Someone about you asked me what I need to know about Christian and this person said that he spoke to a mechanic who was involved in the 3000 days formula and that it was a really bad season. The car was really struggling and had some sponsors. At one event you stood up and talked to the sponsors about the race and what was going to happen that weekend and he said when everyone left the room and you left the room, he was the mechanic, he knew that you were going to have a hard time, but Even he said, I think we can win this, we're going to be okay, we're going to be okay, so I'm really interested in knowing what skills you've acquired and how you can take people along for the ride. with you because it's something that would be helpful to a lot of people, well, I think you know, 90 of the people just want you to know clarity and clear communication, they don't want sugarcoated things, they just want to know, you know what the In this situation, a lot of people People like small talk, you know, and it's all about being clear and I think, um, I've always tried really hard with anyone you meet in any walk of life or whatever position someone is in is just. have that clarity. and accessibility and I think for me that again is something that this team goes through in the sense that there's no room for egos here, you know, it's about team, it's about working for each other and not just as individuals and I think that has made this team one of the strengths that it had, that sense of team, that sense of collective, you know, we are all judged every two weeks on Sunday afternoons and each department has to work in harmony. for the car to reach that finish line in first position, so when you joined a team and preached this message of harmony and team first, has there been any example where you were able to reinforce it? through a symbolic gesture or having to deal with a particular conflict that you could share with us um I think you have to lead with actions, you don't demand respect, you earn it and I think every situation is different, I remember, you know, we had mark webber and sebastian vettel, uh, you know, relatively early in their relationship, we started to become quite feisty with each other and you can see that this tension was

building

and

building

and then we had a, you know, a problem where the two of them collided with each other. yeah and that took it to a whole new level and I thought I needed to deflate it.

I need to put things in perspective here at the end of the day, you know we're not. Saving lives is a sport, it's entertainment, so I took both drivers and took them with David Coulthard to Great Ormond Street to meet some of the children who were having a tough time and also, most importantly, the parents. and spending a morning there with those kids and parents and some pain and you know they were real life problems and they just showed that it's okay, we handle it pretty well you know and actually respect each other, right? With the challenges of these poor children and their parents and the anguish they had, what we do is nothing, so after that visit, did you have a meeting with them?

I didn't need you to know that at that moment. You know they obviously spent time that morning with the kids and the parents and it was

self

explanatory what was going on and I think after that we had a period where there was a reasonable you know, you know, respect between the two of them. It overflowed at some points, but when you have competitive animals, that's what happens, but it was a good reminder at the time, I think of all the myriad hats. you have to dress when you're the CEO of a team like this, you know, you're constantly talking to Red Bull about financing, you're constantly trying to keep the sponsors happy, um, you've admitted it your

self

, you know you couldn't build an engine yet.

We embarked on that and we'll talk about that shortly, but you have to go and talk to those people and still empower them and empower the aerodynamicists and then you have a great team of people to bring with you and then the constant travel and media. duties and between all that, the two people, I guess at the center of the team, the two drivers, you have to strike the perfect balance between pushing them to the limit but making them realize that they are driving for a team, how can you? How do you get that element right?

I mean, I wonder if that takes you more time than you'd like or not. Sometimes it does. Sometimes not. I think different drivers need different approaches. I mean some drivers are very simple. and you know you screw them and they hand you over or they need a little bit of an arm around the shoulders some need to kick their ass you know they're all, they're all very, very different um and the word teammate is a complete fallacy because that's absolutely which they're not because the guy in the other car is basically dictating your um your value you know that's uh and ultimately your career so because that's the only person you can really be evaluated against so um and I think with experience, it helps to have driven a little bit helps, so you can at least speak in a language and try to relate to some of the problems they are experiencing and talked about it as if you were alone or were quite an isolated role in the team, can you explain that, well, no one turns around and says well done, you know, and I think it can be a lonely position, because you have a huge responsibility, it consumes?

A large percentage of your life you have responsibility and it's a pressure and you learn to deal with that pressure or use it, you know how to succumb to it and I think it's being able to manage and compartmentalize what's important at what time. And do you ever feel overwhelmed? that's why? I wouldn't say overwhelmed, there are days when you think you know there's quite a bit going on, but no, I think even though you know it's, uh, I remember in the early days, um, I flew to a hearing with the fia with ron dennis because we both We were in trouble for not starting the US Grand Prix and he gave me some very useful advice that always stuck with me when she said look, you know, I've always said If you eat an elephant, you have to do it, you know. , piece by piece, you know, you're never going to do it in a city, you have to just break it down and take one step at a time and that was it always started not because the idea of ​​rum would eat an elephant, but you know it was pertinent because you know, I think with experience you also learn to worry about the things you can control and not the things you can't, you have to let that you can't control everything, um, so focus on the things you can instead of worry about the things you can't, so how different is your management now compared to when you first came in?

The doors here when you were in your early 30s, uh, because I guess there would have been skeptics, there would have been people on the team who were disappointed with the recent results. You came with this great promise to change things. What did you say? He was 31 years old. age when I walked in the front door and um you know I was a kid um did you think you were okay um not at that time of course not um I had been successful in you know I had won a championship three years in a row in what is the alternate from formula one, now formula two, formula 3000 as it was known in those days, so it had an element of success, you know, I came in and it was just a much bigger environment than I came from there, so I thought that I would stick to the same basic concepts that help me win those championships in Formula Two and apply them in Formula One, and that is about surrounding yourself with the right people, empowering those people.

Be clear on the goals and what the expectations are and try to remove obstacles so they can do their job and you know, when I first got here, I think there was complete dismay that they would put a child in charge, but there was a couple of guys, one who is still in the front of Max's car, who had also graduated from Formula 2, an ex 3000 who knew me and, you know, were very supportive at the time, DC, who Was he our driver? Those years ago, kart

racing

and he was a familiar face and was someone I could bounce ideas off of, obviously driven by Williams, he had driven from McLaren and had come to rebel, so he was someone I said, well no.

I don't understand what land these guys are talking about, even the language they're using and he said, well, I don't either and I've just come from McLaren, so I think it's okay, we've got to break things up. Do you remember what you said? to set the tone immediately under your tenure here um I just you addressed everyone all the time yeah the whole factory was put together um and it was announced to them that the previous management said that Rebel had only bought Jaguar in the end. 2004 and this was early January 2005. They were all bought together and basically the current team manager had been fired that morning, the company met and this is, you know, Christian Horner, he will now be the new team manager. and there was kind of a look of shock as I looked at this sea of ​​faces and I thought who is this kid that they left me with, so I went back to, you know, what my office was.

I had a secretary crying. because they had just fired a previous boss. I've got his Christmas cards on the desk, his half-drunk cup of coffee and he was fine, so this is the beginning, this is the beginning and a pretty disgruntled workforce that went home at five o'clock. uh I think in protest, so then it was a question, okay, I have to learn about this team, people understand their strengths and weaknesses and that was really what I said about the next six months, just watch, listen, talk with the people. getting to know and understand the business, but when you went back to that office, closed the door and was just yourself, how did you manage your internal dialogue to prevent the doubts that other people might have had from consuming you?

I never had those doubts it was like okay, this is the starting point, keep going, you know, and it was a matter of I have to roll up my sleeves, I have to, I have to stay stuck, I have I have nothing to lose and I'm just going to sticking with my values ​​and my confidence, my own instinct, trusting my own limited experience that I had at the time, but that was trying to understand the strengths and weaknesses. and understand the dynamics thattremendous example of how to bring out the best in people how to create a culture um and then it's always interesting to look at other sports how people operate uh you know, I'm not big on Table Banger, you know, I would rather sit down and have a discussion that was logical and I thought I would scream and scream because I would never feel like that actually accomplishes anything, but it's always fascinating to look at other industries, other sports, how do you know? people face that, you know their own problems and which one is the most brutal and you said that your wife is good at giving you brutal feedback what is the best feedback you have had, that you have taken into account and that you have seen the best result of this she has a set she has a few series but she's um she's like she's saying she would always be aware that you know, a pat on the back is six inches away from a kick in the butt um and that's absolutely true. , particularly within you, you know the media world we live in, people love to build you up and they love to tear you down even more and I think the biggest lesson with that is to just ignore it, just do your thing, people will judge by You know you can't control what people think about you.

People will have an opinion like you or not, that's their prerogative and I think I'm just learning to let it go, learning to let it go, wanting to please. I think it's very important, when did you learn to let go? I think after we knew we'd probably been successful and all of a sudden you have that downward spiral and probably at that point because obviously then there's another team. even that is Christian until that you just have to let it go you have to believe in yourself and do the best you can and you will be judged on that at the end of the day can I talk to you about um you?

I have mentioned several times empowering people who work at Red Bull, yes it sounds great, how is it done? I've always believed in employing people to do the work and letting them do the work rather than telling them later how to do it. Otherwise, you may as well do it yourself, so again, I think you have to build an environment around them that allows them to focus on what they are and what they are good at. I mean, it's like Adrian Adrian is an artist, it doesn't make sense. adrian managing a group of people because it would be chaos and you know he would be the first to accept that but you want to give him the freedom as an artist to be creative and I think that's why he's probably been here at least twice as long than any other team you know in sports and I think it's having that sense of empowerment and allowing them to do their job without micromanaging.

Yes, everyone is responsible. Everyone is responsible at some point. But it's a question of Look, you're here to be an aerodynamicist, a mechanical designer, a mechanic or whatever role it is, you know what's expected throughout the year, so how would you describe the culture and then you want to create what your ideal culture would be. ? well the culture that you know a lot is one that is totally political and there's no one to point the finger at you um and it's a lot about team. Everything we do is very much about you getting to know the team and it's inclusive, you're not afraid to be part of it. mistakes you know that people make mistakes we are human beings we all make mistakes the most important thing is to learn from those mistakes and apply those learnings and findings to try to avoid them you know that in the future you don't just want a bunch of sheep you want people to have a voice to to be able to say what they think to convey, you know their concerns or their contribution and I think that type of environmental communication is so important that I was going to ask because how do you encourage that because there are many people who listen to this and understand psychological safety, being able to commit a mistake and not keeping it in mind forever, as long as they learn from it and feel empowered to speak up, how do you do that as a leader? of that culture they create that environment for those things to flourish and I think it's one of inclusion and I think what's been interesting in the last 12 months is that we've all had to exist in an environment of zoom or facetime or what have you and you lose that empathy, you know, meetings last forever, people have other things to do while meetings are going on and yes, the technology that allows you to continue functioning, but you lose that interaction and that's why I think it's so vital that you are able to look someone in the face, you can have that personal interaction, yes, and it is those things that make the difference, being able to have a couple of engineers having a coffee together and talking about the

performance

of the car and what you're not constantly forcing it, yes it's happening naturally and how does it feel to be vulnerable and admit that you made a mistake?

You know, I think you shouldn't be afraid to raise your hand and say, "Okay, we have." That's bad you know I was wrong I'm not perfect I'm far from perfect but I try to do things right more than I'm wrong and if I'm wrong about something don't be afraid to learn from it you know Say "Okay, we're up." You know, I misunderstood, we have to do it, but don't be afraid to change direction and say "Okay, okay, we're going to go this way now," so a race weekend is a Sunday and there's a mistake that costs a victory. or a podium or a points finish how quickly you've gotten over that at the start of next week um usually within 24 hours right 36 hours you've lost that fear it still hurts uh but you sleep the second night um so uh and it's a matter of understand well, what could we have done better?

Do you know what we could have done better? I mean, we just lost a race to Lewis. Everything about the media and the strategy is down, the reality was that they were simply faster than us. There's no point beating yourself up about strategy, the reality is we just need a faster car and then you have the strategic options, so again you have to focus on the things that are reality rather than fiction, and there is someone who has been in your position for now. a long period of time like there's something exceptional about it exceptional leaders you think about someone from a different sport like alex ferguson did for a long time and they talk about that reinvention of themselves, what would you say has been the biggest reinvention you've ever done? had?

I've been through so far on your timers, I think it's a constant evolution rather than a reinvention, so I'm probably very different now to the day I came in in many ways, but I think I'm still fundamentally the same person at heart. you know, I have the same characteristics, the same principles, I just think you learn to apply them differently and again, I think you learn to understand what's important at the end of the day and what's just noise, so what would you say if someone I was watching you from the first day you arrived at 31 years old until watching you today, what would they see as the biggest difference?

I think they think you've aged a lot. What would they see as the biggest difference? I have to ask you that, I really mean, I think that's it, it's about evolution, right? And you're constantly learning in life in business being a parent, just the journey that life gives you, you're always learning. You are always evolving and you should not be afraid. You know you are going to accept the change. Don't be afraid of change. You know it at the end of the day. So what lesson would you have learned from the journey you have taken and are going through?

Now, to your children, I think you shouldn't be afraid to chase your dreams, don't be afraid to shoot for the stars because you might land on the moon. You know you have a life and you have to go for it. We're here for such a small percentage of time that you know, don't waste it, do it, you know, whatever it is, whatever you're passionate about in life, pursue it and don't wait because you might not, you might never get back to it. have the opportunity so you have to take advantage of it hug it and pick it up and run and enjoy it that's the other thing I enjoy what I do.

I'm lucky to get paid for something I enjoy doing. and I think if you're doing something just for the money, that's not right, you're never going to get the best out of something, if it's just about the paycheck at the end of the month, you should love what you do. You have to enjoy what you do and then if you do it, you will do it much better. Brilliant, we get to our rapid fire round at the end of the interview. Three non-negotiable behaviors that you and the people who come to red

bull

and work around you have to accept, I would say, integrity, honesty and competitiveness, probably three fundamentals and what advice would you give to a Christian teenager who is just starting out?

I would advise you, I would say I would. You will probably say yes, don't pay the full amount of money up front for the advance, make a deposit and wait for delivery, thank God, everything worked out, a book recommendation that you have really learned a lot from and that I could recommend to you. our audience, I don't know, I always like, you know, I find biographies quite interesting, so again I learn just by learning how people operate, whether and Alex Ferguson, I've always been him, he's a very different character, but I always I have admired you know what he accomplished and how he accomplished it and finally, Christian, what's your one golden rule for living a

high

-

performance

life?

Ah, the only golden rule for living a

high

-performance life is to simply take each day as it comes, you know, no. Don't think too much about the future and you know, take what life throws at you each day, listen, thank you very much, it's very interesting for me to sit down and analyze, you know the way you've built this team. because I remember getting into Formula One and seeing all these identical Formula One teams that would just show up, have a table for their sponsors' race and go home again and all of a sudden there was this other team that was jumping off barges, having parties and invited hundreds.

A bunch of people came back to the team manager's house for a party the night before or after the British Grand Prix and I remember watching him thinking how can you have so much fun and be so successful because this was in the area where you were winning, already You know, four titles in a row, so it's a great pleasure to put some meat on the bones and I guess from afar we all make up what we think is happening somewhere and then it's nice to finally get some answers. to that because for me it was a great lesson that you can really be successful and enjoy life at the same time.

I think for too long I always thought you could have one or the other. I think, as I say, life is very short. You have to enjoy it and you have to enjoy the ups and downs, you have to learn from the downs and yes, the bad days make the good days even better. Thanks buddy, it's great to see you, thanks, thanks for your time, hit subscribe hit the notification bell give us a thumbs up, leave a review but somehow get involved in the high performing

podcast

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