Rapist's Defence Lawyer Fined for Traumatising Treatment in Court

When I was a news reporter in the past, covering rape trials, I was often surprised by the way defense attorneys attacked credibility beyond the victim's line and I really thought those days were gone, but it seems what no Ellie Wilson was left deeply traumatized by her

rapist

defense

lawyer

in

court

and says she now feels vindicated because she complained about it and simply said it was unacceptable the way he treated her while she while he was questioning her uh it was simply indefensible and that complaint was upheld and he was

fined

for his conduct. Ellie, who waived her anonymity, filed a complaint against Lorenzo Alonzi following the Glasgo trial in 2022, in which her attacker was jailed for five years.

She now she joins us along with Attorney Kirsty brimo Casey, thank you both so much for coming to see you to talk about this and to Ellie. You know, I wanted to say I applaud you for your bravery in doing this, because you know I can imagine it's hard enough. Going through this kind of

court

case, isn't it? Getting to the end and feeling like you still wanted to fight for justice for what had happened in that court case. It must have been a difficult decision to make. It was really difficult. Came. I came away from the court case completely traumatized.

I felt like a broken person, even physically. I was absolutely exhausted, but I knew that what had happened to me in court was not right and I needed justice for what had happened because my journey for justice was not. I ended up with my

rapist

being found guilty. I knew I had to seek justice against this defense attorney and also give us some examples of the kinds of things this guy said to you when you were on the witness stand and when he was angry. -when examining me he accused me of having a narcissistic personality disorder even though I have no medical diagnosis about it, it means that he simply plucked it out of the air, he plucked it out of the air and in fact, when the judge questioned it, he said that it was his own evaluation which um although obviously

lawyer

s are not qualified to do medical evaluations it's the same as almost him saying you're schizophrenic exactly um because I think you're exactly exactly he was just making things up and he kept asking me about Random Men I mean , they know acquaintances and ask me if I would use these men for abuse or jealousy, but I think the worst part for me was the sentencing, so after the jury had already found my abuser guilty, they told me. that it was an injustice that I had graduated with a first class degree and a master's degree with distinction while my abuser was going to prison and didn't he also say that um that your rapist had been unlucky enough to fall in love with you? yeah, he said he had fallen in love with the wrong person this is after he was found guilty after he was found guilty it almost sounds personal it felt personal he really did it um during the interrogation he got heated at some points I felt like he was really upset about the fact that I wasn't in a way because I couldn't break myself and I think I wanted to put myself in my place.

I think it's incredible that it doesn't. you just went through that experience and like you say you didn't come out in one piece because you didn't, you're in pieces but then you decided heck with this, I'm actually going after this guy, um, I have to establish There's a principle here that you can't treat people like you in exactly that way. You know, I think it takes a lot of strength and courage for women who report rape and abuse to even come forward and then go to court and be dehumanized, publicly humiliated in that way, it's unacceptable and if we want women to be able to come forward, so they have to be able to do it knowing that they won't be subject to that kind of

treatment

and it was complicated for you, I mean, for In order to do this, you had to give up your legal right to anonymity.

You had to obtain transcripts of the court case, which then cost thousands of pounds. It is not like this? It is not like this? You have to get the funds to be able to do it. that system is now changing for people, but it wasn't an easy process to even get it, no it wasn't easy at all, so first of all I had to compile all the complaints myself like you said I needed to. My court transcripts to corroborate what I was saying. That's when I discovered I would need thousands of pounds to get my court transcript. reading in black and white oh it was so stressful it really re-traumatized me but you also know I had to study the law I had to look at the relevant sections of the law to know what I was going to complain about and I faced a team of lawyers and in the end I was successful, but I think that the court transcripts thing is also such a big problem.

You know, having to crowdfund for that and it was because of that that I decided to start a public campaign to get free court transcripts in Scotland. Well, I must say that if you were my daughter, I would be very proud of you. I would be very proud of you. Kirsty, look, we obviously know that every defendant has the right to a vigorous defense. people who give evidence, whatever story happened to them, have to expect to be cross-examined vigorously, that's fine, so it would have been nice for this particular defense lawyer to pick out their evidence and question it, but in reality, basically attacking and trying to, I guess, in front of the jury, to sow doubt about her morality and her behavior in the minds of the jury by simply defaming her, is completely unacceptable, yeah, well, obviously, the complaints have been upheld, um and attorneys and defense attorneys. obviously this was in Scotland and we are governed by a code of conduct and an important part of that code of conduct is that a solicitor must not abuse his position and that means that solicitors should not be uh insulting I mean you talk about humiliation, they should not do that at all during the interrogation and I would like to say that I think this is, happily, a very rare case, I mean, not happily, because you had to go through that.

I was going to ask this, I mean, I remember it as almost a tough girl when you know 30 years ago when it was new 30 years ago I was going to ask how long ago I think it obviously used to be much, much worse and um, I think the bar has I worked very , very tough on the training and also on the code of conduct and also the duty of a judge is to intervene. I was just going to ask why didn't that happen, why didn't someone intervene, the judge intervene, I mean you're in court. but the judge intervened to pull the lawyer towards the other, the other point is that, but he continued making bars, he continued doing it and that's why the complaint came, but the bars also cannot ask someone at random about their previous sexual history or insinuation of that they were someone who, so what was he trying to, like I said before, what was he basically trying to do and he obviously didn't care that the judge intervened because the damage had already been done.

He was trying to poison minds. of the jury, I was trying to get the jury to think that was difficult, yes, it is difficult to know what the motivation would be because, frankly, cross-examination does not have to be cross-examination and someone should not feel humiliated after being questioned in the court and the way Ellie has felt that that shouldn't be happening, it's a case where obviously a defendant pleads not guilty and says look, I didn't do this and therefore they're entitled to a fair trial if It is an adversary. system, so there will be some element where someone feels upset, perhaps after being questioned, but crossing the line, as was found in this case, is a different thing because the problem is that we already have enough difficulty to get prosecutions.

In big cases, even to reach the situation of having to go to court, don't we leave him alone? So the concern is that it will discourage people, I hope not, from going through this. Yes, I hope so. It is not because it is certainly my experience to have practiced in the courts for over 30 years. Both prosecute and defend cases of sexual crimes. This is something that is very rare. It shouldn't have happened. I'm going to say this is in Scotland they also have a system where they look at maybe their training and they also look at how accessible complaints are, well this guy took on the wrong person here because not only did you go after him and you won, he's been They've fed him two grand, right?

But in reality you could be

fined

up to three and you've decided to come back and say, "Sorry why he didn't find the maximum." Yes, I have decided to appeal. I had been ordered to pay £1000 compensation and a £2000 fine, but the maximum available is £3000 compensation and a £3000 fine, so I am pushing for more to be paid because I think that fine is overly lenient and I think there needs to be consequences for that kind of behavior and more generally what else would you like to see changed in cases like yours? So obviously you know that we have laws that regulate what can and cannot be said in these types of cases, but I don't think they are enforced enough.

I believe more training is needed to improve the complaint process and access to free court transcripts. Obviously we have a pilot program for that in Scotland, but in England and Wales, you know, survivors still have to do it. pay thousands of pounds for your court transcripts. I think we just make sure that the justice system is more open, less secretive and supportive of victims. I think you're great, thank you very much for coming. Obviously we approached attorney Lorenzo Alonzi for a comment, but we have not received any response, no, no, thank you both very much for coming, I mean, for talking about it, we appreciate it and just to tell you that if you have been affected by any of the issues we have been discussing, then you can find advice and support at itv.com slh helplines