Phil Jackson in conversation with John Salley

Oh thank you very much. I appreciate you knowing that I brought John to Chicago for the last championship in Chicago, yeah, and then John was here in Los Angeles for the first championship we had here, so we have a long-standing

conversation

that's been going on. over the years, yeah, and I was wondering why you did it, why you cut me off, I just came to ask a question, that's why not, it was the best meeting you ever had, 15 minutes with Phil, that's how calls and Mitch Kupchak. was there and he said, "I sat down, you know I was fit, I was smiling, I didn't get in trouble and he said, I don't have any real estate for you in the south, thank you very much, what are you going to do this summer smoking." marijuana now thanks to you Phil um so one of the things one of the things he knew he was going to joke but one of the things he had to tell you is coach Jackson, I love you and I really want to say they asked me they asked me When I was Chuck Daly, I was able to tell Chuck Daly before he passed away and I usually tell people that Meyer died to change and that I did wonderful things in my life that I love them and I mean it, and when I read your book, this book.

I read all your books, but when I read this one, what is the best thing about this book? Since today I was doing a radio program. I have a product from Beer magazine, a prostate pill. You know, I tried to tell you before you went under the knife. but when I spoke and they told me about what is happening now and the first thing I said is that I saw when Miami resigned. I see it when they abandoned the game. I see when they are playing as one. The crazy thing is in the book, you don't say more, we, I, became weak and I remember that when we were doing a breath with the Lakers, I explained to everyone with a single breath how I tried to bring awareness to the team we brought. person who worked with the University of Massachusetts medical system who taught meditation and mindfulness to medical patients, much of it was pain threshold therapy and as a result it expanded.

Jon Kabat-zinn was the individual who wrote a book. you go there, you are and you became quite famous for your term mindfulness, so I met Jon Kabat-zinn and I asked him if he would send me a teacher and he told me that someone worked with the probation officers and with the probation and the people on parole, what are you doing? trying to say well, no, you weren't with the Trailblazers, you were with the book, so George Mumford came to Chicago and we started the show and he came here for a couple of years. Georgia played basketball in the Massachusetts universe with Rick Pitino and Dr.

J and was a basketball player who had become a certified public accountant in life, had devoured it and you were done with mindfulness training, so of all So basic training is about, you know, we do all this work to condition ourselves to be the best basketball players to strengthen our muscles, we try to give you some really good ideas about how to play basketball the right way, but we don't do exercises. Mindfulness and mindfulness is something that expands your ability to concentrate and expand your ability to express a single mind, so we teach through the breath how to do this and so it becomes one breath, one mind, that's how the process and that's the idea that John is expressing so that we can do it right now.

He sounds crazy, but I do it. Instead of shouting and arguing, I literally breathe, I think about it, I see it, I am Lord. I used that in my life as an adult and as a father, which you obviously had to do when you came to the Lakers to To be honest, I think it was Dennis Rodman who was at the top, yeah, and we would see things now. I'm going to say this, so I joined the Lakers. I was living in Los Angeles and I only saw Kobe and Shaq and I called Phil, got his number and of course he asked me how did you get this number?

He was full of Olivia and I told him when you come to Los Angeles to take over this team and he said who have you been talking to. I said no, I just watched TV, there's no way you're going to let these two great players not win championships and I said I wanted to be on the team and he said did you talk to Jerry? I told him yes, I saw him fallen, he said. You'd shake it, man, I stay in shape. He was having Oreo cookies for breakfast, cannabis does a lot for you and I thought and got in shape.

I didn't have the strength in my legs until the end of the season, but to get there and watch you work. Shaquille because I understood that he was a big kid, he was a wonderful and happy kid, he's only 27 years old and there was Kobe, who was just focused on being better than Michael and calm and introverted, kind of like you, when, when not. you say a lot but you say so much you say so much it's amazing that he can just look at you and then look down at the end of the bench and then look back at you, you scored six in a row, anything happened when you got to the team and because we're in Los Angeles.

I want to talk about that. I read in the second championship that you were going for your second championship. How crazy and tumultuous it was with Shaq and Kobe. How did you handle it well? We obviously had a wonderful first year at Staples. For the championship we have to go through the Portland series, which are the Western Conference finals that bring out the best in the basketball club. Shaq has always felt very limited in extending himself to play roll defense and over the course of that particular game. In game seven Stephen Smith Steve Smith had started with a side bonus and making outside shots and Shaq was falling behind.

We were down by 14 points in the fourth quarter and I finally said you had to make a decision now if you were going to go. If you don't play this or not, if you don't play defense, we can win, if not, we're going to say goodbye to this championship race and they performed and I don't think Portland will score again. It was a pretty miraculous ending to that ball game a day ago, so we go through Indiana for the championship and everyone's happy about it, we do the right thing for the championship, the buses do the parade and everything else, then the team leaves. divides and when they return.

He really wants to be a part of the glory and that's the hard thing about winning, is that sometimes it's just as hard to win as it is to lose because there's not enough glory to go around or whatever. I don't know exactly how that can be converted, but for Kobe it was like his first year was like I don't know if I'll be a Hall of Fame player if he only averages 19 points a game, Shaq's average and 30, call Jerry West and he says: how did you do it? in Elgin Bow, score 30 points a game during your careers, they must have done it four or five years in a row, they averaged over 30 points a game, those two guys and Jerry told them they knew we had a lot of shots in those days, you know all. he just went down and shot the ball, it was a 24 second clock, it was the pruno, it was the end of the time period, no one got to the 24 second violation, 'he's in those days, now it's all about defense and everything that and them' I'm worried about this, he calls me and says you know you've had this

conversation

with Kobe Bryant, so I know that Kobe wants to score and when he comes back the second year he's determined to be, you know, in the score and he's shooting a thousand jumpers a day and it's sealed, he's just going to go out and score, so it's a battle of wills that's going on, so I just let it play out and I was left with a lot, the two opposing forces They have a bit of a bisexual game and things swing between these two and you know, when one trainer films us and the other doesn't go with that trainer, you had to have your own tapir trainers and one group had a series.

There were several press guys that they talked to and the other guy didn't talk to those press guys, so it's like this kind of bickering war that was going on there was almost like kid stuff and, you know, teen stuff. , but eventually injuries happen and Coby had to be out for three weeks at the end of the season and in the process we can talk and we can do some things and the team continued to win enough. Oh, I should mention one of the stories during that period of One time we went to Minnesota to play a baseball game and before Coby got hurt and we had a little 10 point lead and then Coby did a little bit of his thing, he left. a little bit on his own mind and tried to score a few times he hadn't been successful he got back into the game we were only up by four going into the locker room Ronnie Harper one of our veteran stalwarts says hey young man, don't try to do it alone, you know?

We're here to help, we'll do it together, okay, and that turns on Kobe's button. He just heard it live. I'm in the trainer's room and I hear this noise. I'm on my way out. What's going on here? Know? then they told me I said, you know Colby, you really know this is a team game and anyway, the injury happens. Colby misses three weeks and comes back and plays the best ball and we have the best run any team has ever had in a Finals I think we lost one game out of the last 26 over the course of that drive, so let me know you guys know how to get it together , it's just that, you know, bending his will and bending his ego to do it together, that's how it was.

It's not like you just sit there and don't do anything like people think, hey, wait. I know he sits there and you know, in his high chair and a lot of people say he doesn't get up and do anything in the book when you read. in a book it's because Phil, when he does it, he does it in practice and then one time, only one time I saw you angry, I'm going to say man, I'm a little excited, twice one was when you literally grabbed Travis Knight. Jersey and you nudged them by showing someone how to post and Travis was hurt, we were going to sue you.

I got everything from the lawyer, but the other time was when you went into the locker room, put it in a book and threw the Gatorade Bottle in the room against the wall and you made me nervous and I know you know you're not crazy, when do you know how to use that kind of motivation? Well, what was happening with the Laker team at that time was that I had a lot of fun like a guy who has a lot of fun. I don't know if this is the year they decide to walk into practice naked after he's late or not, maybe that's the kind of thing he'd do just to create a good laugh from the whole team, he had his sneakers on, by the way, I wasn't toned right, Lisa's wearing rubber bands, yeah, so anyway we went to Phoenix, we won two games at home, you're Phoenix, you win the third game in Phoenix and there's a motorcycle that Shaq rented, you know , and I have a theater that is across the street from where we were staying in Phoenix, at the Ritz-Carlton, that is showing Spartacus, to empty it so I can go in to see Spartacus had a day off. and about three guys show up, what a gladiator because I want to go to the area, yeah, I'm glad you know where that goes with me, it doesn't have this, so no one shows up anyway, everyone is having a good time, it's Saturday night night in Phoenix, we went out and I think Phoenix scored. 70 points on this in the first half Jason Kidd and Penny Hardaway and whatever so they just took this to task and I just wanted the team to get through this series and every time you're in the playoffs, I don't I don't want that the team has to try too hard and any game, every game, can be an injury-prone accident that can happen, whatever it is, you just want to clear it up.

Three, everyone is, they are desperate, they want to win one more at home. They beat us, we had to play an extra game, so at halftime I let them know my displeasure and the fact that they were always joking too much, they weren't serious or professional enough in their business to do so. right, yeah, one reason I see you have all these interviews and I read a lot and I just wanted to talk about the book at the end. I was talking to your co-writer Hugh about honey. I wrote a really good book, this is a really good book, I read it like: who is somewhere here, stand here and read the book because I still use some of the things and the different meditations.

Man, I gotta go to India, meet the Dalai Lama, yeah, he's way cooler than you, bro. He practices well, right. Hey, but Josh, young man, you're both the same, it's the same mentality. I'm not intimidated by you, little man. I know Phil, but in your book, when we talk about you, we talk about plays and and and and I love you. tell people how you met Hugh and then when you read the book you'll understand why it's cohesive or one thought in the book. Hajimete, well, you worked with Time Warner for several years, but he was also writing something for Tricycle. magazine which is a Buddhist magazine and that was the first interview and meeting we had together and how many people subscribe to Tricycle One, but anyway it sparked a conversation between us and we finally collaborated on a book called Sacred Hoops, it's about 17 years. old and we went through a process that was very detailed as not only did we finish the book but the publisher decided that they were not going to publish the book and they wanted to get their advance back and a whole series of events occurred in the process.

I postponed the book for a year when what happened was Michael Jordan played basketball again, which made the book even more of a sales item than it would have been, so you and I had some success with it. this book, so this is a It's a natural process for us to go through this now. I see many sayings in this book andYou see, I'm just letting you know why I keep opening it because I kept I was reading something. Said. I remember it and would return. and write it down and this is a quote you had, you said what you do for yourself you are doing for others and what you do for others you are doing for yourself how difficult it was That place, I understand, we have had it in our coaching staff For, I guess, 17 of the 20 years I coached a little guy named Tex Winter, who was a USC basketball player who I worked with as an assistant coach, he used to lead the summer league team in the open field. team of agents and I brought him to Los Angeles when I was in Chicago and we trained them for three weeks and in the process of working with him, I learned every aspect of the triangle offense, which he was a master of, that was his particular environment. basketball coach of the system he always had what my other assistant coach, Johnny Bach, would call were bromides, we called broken legs, so the one we always used was no man is an island, no man goes his way alone, what you put in the lives of others it will come. go back to your point, which is the same thing you just said, so we, who were connected almost every week, heard that at one time or another and the other thing is that you know that for lack of a nail the war was lost in the details, the smallest things you do are the critical things, so there are a lot of jokes that we use in coaching basketball, so these guys were always hearing these things from the back of the room, you know when something would happen. and we were watching a video and a guy was making a pass, but maybe that wasn't the assist, baby, the pass led to a score, which was the secondary, he says there would be a comment that would be similar to that.

That Hill thing here is teamwork in action and that's why the players always heard that I was nothing, so the poem, that text would be on page 70 and the text would say it all the time and I wouldn't go sit with the text. and gadgets and was sitting with Texas. He was close to his age. I was only 36 years old, but I sat there with text and I even got a manual and a textbook because I wanted to know the offense better than the coach here because my competition was nobody because I was sitting there and he looked at me and said: do you want to play today? , I want to play every day, not today, let me tell you a story about that, so John Salley from John becomes the people person that he is.

Shaq's spokesman, when I got to Los Angeles, I made a strong appeal to Shaquille to break a little habit that he had, you know, like mumbling in front of the TV, you know, when they came with that thing and me. I would say: I want you to talk. I want you to speak with the strength and authority of a leader. Know. I want you to do this. I also want you to monitor your weight so that you are in the best shape possible. Being in I've always been worried that you're not in the kind of shape you need to be in Say, well, going through training camp in three games, four games into the season, checks coming off the field and I stop it before I got to the bench but I had this chest I said what's the best thing that Wilt Chamberlain has ever done well he scored 50 points an average of thirty rebounds once he settles now that's not all what he did he played every minute of every game 48 minutes per game average for the course of the season now missed two minutes in overtime an overtime game they went into missed two minutes Wow, I said, could you do that?

He said, oh, if you could do that, I could do that. I started playing 48 minutes a day, so I got in pretty good shape quickly after seven or eight games John Salley Thompson in my coach's story says you know Shaq came to see me and told me maybe you could rest a little, so I started tracking his minutes. a little bit, but that was a year where Shaq was MVP and scored 30 points and he really led us as a coach in your book. You also talked about when Chicago was going to go so fast and fast, you talked about playing well, being right and then in the book it says: right vision, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration, so you expected these professional athletes to remember these rights well, that's the brother of the Eightfold Path this way, yeah, so just kind of slide that in there on them, yeah , you have to do it, yes, yes, one day we brought him yoga.

We're really upset about the Wednesday yoga thing and you know the yoga instructor was great, but you know she was in California. and then the next week this cute blonde came over and everyone was stretching. Remember the guys said everyone was happy to go to yoga, but you only had a couple of injuries. Now I'm looking at teams. I'm watching Miami. I'm seeing these guys suffer these late injuries, which I think is all mental because they have tons of mental situations going on outside of the game. Your last year here in your book is called The Last Stand, you pulled yourself together, you talked to these guys and you told them.

I share something very personal with you exactly how that whole story was. Well, this is a painful end to a season that had so much potential. We went through an above-average season, but we hadn't played very well and then we had a spell afterwards. the all-star game where we won 18 of 19 games and during that period of time I had a biopsy for prostate cancer and you know, I had information that was disconcerting. I was going to have to have surgery at some point immediately afterward. the season would have been over if he had received any hormone therapy to reduce the amount of testosterone that cancer cells feed on, etc. and I sat on that information, but at one point, once the playoffs started, we started having problems and you can see things.

What happened in the first series we had against Derek Fisher from New Orleans was, you know, I made it a point to change a segment of our new internal meeting that we had in a video room and say something's wrong here and I don't know if it's that we have four rookies and six team members and you know we haven't maintained the continuity of our championship year and no one is on the same page or maybe it's because you know he's an outgoing coach and he and Phil are leaving. and we don't know where there will be a lockout next year something is wrong and I can't put my finger on it, derrickson, spokesperson for our team, many times in those situations he read the weather and saw which way the wind was blowing and could also talk to him pretty well, so as we sat in silence for a minute or two and I stood up and said, you know, maybe it's me, you know, maybe I'm a little distracted because of this thing that's happening and me emitting I'll put all my energy into it. in you know what I normally do and my thinking because I got distracted by this thought and I shared it with that T but then he asked me not to reveal this during the period of time we had left to play and I thought, well, maybe That will become clearer a little the air if Dallas sweeps us, it will clear a lot of the air, everyone said, let's get away from this, the reason I even say that is because here we see the things that are happening. the Lakers now, but I remember when I was on the Bulls and I couldn't understand it because I've known Michael since he was 17 and you know I got in trouble for saying he wasn't the best player ever.

Time said he was the best in the 90s, but you know I'm a dr. Jay fan, I like Jerry West. I saw great players in my life, but you know I'm older and I'm reading your book. It explains to me why everyone thinks Michael Jordan is the best because you know he doesn't and I and I. I guess because I was against you for so many years that I've developed a resistance, yeah, thinking about how great Michael was until I read it in your book, the way she would think, the way he would readjust and a of the things I'm so happy about. that the guys haven't read the book yet because they're going to use this now it's a text message the winner would yell at Michael that there's no self in me and the team and Michael would say yes but it's not a win and then from 20th place that's right.

That's the best line and I can imagine MJ saying that, but you were able to make this kid better than he already was, how do you do it? It was a broad vision. Michael had a limited view of his own teammates and you see, you know your own teenager's weaknesses with them all the time and you know on some level you have to say you know this guy is really good, he does it really well. , he does it, he makes timely shots, he makes good passes and all that. We're not going to focus on the fact that maybe he can't handle the ball under pressure, maybe he gets a little nervous receiving the ball infield, maybe there's a defensive lapse, he doesn't move his feet fast enough in this situation. cover it because that's what we are we're a team and the initial conversation I had with MJ was you've been averaging 37 38 points a game you've been winning MVP awards but you're not getting there and I'm not.

I don't think anyone wanted a scoring championship and also won the NBA championship and that's the most important thing, so we established it and then I said it. I want you to realize that you're not going to get as many touches or take as many shots. I said 32 points a game, I can do that and still win a job when the scoring title wouldn't be a problem for me and take off five points on average or whatever, you know, I said well, that's only three or four shots. , It is not like this? He said maybe it's five or six, but anyway the idea that I brought to him was that the spotlight is always on you and so what happens when you go up against a good team like Detroit and those spotlights are on you? ?

You have the ball, the spotlight rays and as soon as you put it down, there are three guys collapsing on you, you're not going to get there, so we have two views of you as a decoy and certain moments of the game in the ones that people will go with you and other people will have it easier. shots and you have to trust your teammates to be able to improve them and you will be able to do it and he accepted it now that he has a player like Kobe Bryant, did he commit to being faster than Michael?

He was a little bit more resilient. I think Michael was so successful in his previous four years as a basketball player in the NBA that he knew what he could do being I can with two or three guys, but then when it came to those two or three guys, word Detroit Pistons, who was the best defensive team in that league at the time, you know they got hit, they knocked them down, they got the O's to take care of themselves and as a result, you know we failed and we played five games in a year, six games in a year, seven games in one. year and lost in the playoffs to the Pistons, so there had to be a next step and the next step was he had to take fewer shots, we had to do a better job moving the ball to other people and use him as a decoy when she made exercise.

For us with Kobe, he was still expanding his game, he hadn't really reached his peak as a basketball player, so I still saw Shaq, how great Shaq was, it wasn't just a problem of him having the personnel to go. meet the standards of him he said, "I'm always going to be there, I'm going to get there, I mean, I'm going to be there now, but I'm going to be there because I'm going to be one of the greatest players of all time, yeah, so I was." watching this game and my chief of staff Sandra is here and she's a long time Laker fan she cusses them out she's only five three and she was calling me during Kobe's career when he hit 61, 70 and 78, because you did?

Don't let Kofi Kobe break Wilt Chamberlain's record. Well, there's only three minutes left in the game. Again, why did you do it? There's one game where I think he scored 60 points. I eliminated him at the beginning of the fourth quarter, also because we had won. In the game we were ahead and that was not important or in this game we had to have it there all the time to get to the 81st point because that night they challenged us to win, we had a limited team where the team was not that talented and they were playing his and we used his own switch that they called me that night to beat him and you know, we got the 10 point or twelve point lead with a couple minutes left, I took him out of the game.

Which is appropriate, right? I think you know there is a certain limit. I didn't like seeing Kobe play multiple 40 minute games with 45 minute caliber ball towards the end of the season before he got hurt. I thought it was overuse. of a baseball player, I think 38 to 40 minutes, yeah, 42 minutes, forty-two minutes in a playoff situation, you get an overtime or something, you can extend those minutes, but it really wears you out and you know how much you you exhausted yourself as an athlete. And I think sometimes you know because I've been a player and I knew I wasn't a player who could play 40 minutes.

He was a 28 to 35 minute max player. There is a limitation on what you can do and you have to understand that. and understand what it takes to get the player off the wall, okay, some of the questions that you're going to get here tonight or about the Lakers now yeah, some of them I want to get out so you don't have to ask the question and so we can get some questions. detailed for people who read the book and I don't love any of themintention to train no, in case you have no intention to train, but you will, are you willing to be like the president or that type of thing in the basket of the United States of America, they have an organization and they are going through Christ.

Sometimes I've been asked to come in and sit and listen to what's going on and I'm willing to do that. do that, but as of now there's no open position there that I can have an influence on, so I understand that and they hey, hey, but I'll stay open. You know, Jeanie Buss is obviously a fan favorite on your show. I'm listening. to her console as I go and try to console her on ways the team can improve. Okay, they're in a mess, they're in a mess and we know it because of their financial mess right now and that's what I have to give right away is that your storythe financial system so that they can move and adapt to the process that happens in the NBA, you have to be able to have flexibility and at the current pace of how the league is structured with their new collective bargaining agreement, how they penalize teams, you can't be news, you can't even go over it, you can't make moves, so you know, You can't talk to the referee, you can't manually check the stub, you can't go to the anti, you have players who are appealed, Steve.

Nash will be 40 this year, they're still under contract for a couple more years, you know, you have things that prevent you or really prevent you from having the mobility that your guys will be available, Carmelo, you know? LeBron, etc. in a couple of years and you have to be able to pose a challenge for those types of players. Do you think that could happen? Why would I do it when I hear those things? Because sometimes I don't read the newspaper and I don't believe it correctly. I know, because I was in the locker room, I made a story that we bought Shaq a Rolls Royce and they used it and do they want them if you can sit in these meetings because, as I see it or as many people say, well, better put it the way Sondra sees it, who tells me everything is when they go for Mike Brown to D'Antoni and they get Nash, they know they're going, he'll be about 40 years old when they get him, but why would you sign a player that you know is going to come at 40 and won't be at his best, why would you find that player?

You know, it was a fluke that came up and those things fell like dominoes, unfortunately for the Lakers, they thought. I was going to be lucky, but unfortunately for the Lakers, it happened that way, they put in a call of interest. Do it on June 30th at midnight because July 1st obviously started around midnight. He started dialing, so at 12:01 he is legally calling. You call an agent and tell them we have interest in your player and they call and they have interest in Steve Nash, so Steve Nash was talking to Toronto and other teams, this is a young man, he wasn't that young anymore and he's had a great care for his body he's also a vegan now he's not quite there but he's a Tai Chi expert he really is what he is you know he really takes care of himself and they thought well you know we could keep this up for a couple of years and they always wanted to have a really good point guard contract with the Lakers and then you know they lost CP3 and Chris Paul in that whole situation and they blew up so this is the best option, they didn't even think Howard was going to happen because It didn't seem like it was going to happen and all of a sudden how it happened on top of that and that put them in a situation where I'm really going to get in trouble for this. comment, but how did it not happen, I know I'm going to get in trouble for that, I told you that you have back surgery, you already have the stress of the world on your shoulders, so you already have your 260 pound body and you have its stresses , you should take the whole season off and he nodded, I'm coming back, ma'am, to play.

I said it is impossible to sustain the world. Your sweater, your back, that's when they finally realized that he wasn't getting his body back. together, why is it then at a time when you tell someone, you attract them and you feel them? Why don't we have that kind of leadership? I have no idea if he worked his way up there saying I have to play, but the idea that I was going to come back would maybe start in December, November 8th, you know, and that just slowed down the whole process and you know, I was sitting a whole year after my bad operation, so I know what it's like to recover from it because there was a long recovery process and at the end of the season he started to look like who he is, the type of player who got up quickly, got he moved a lot better, you know, unfortunately, you know, it didn't really give him a good chance to succeed here in Los Angeles.

Do you ever get nervous when you say things like D'Antoni isn't using them correctly? Have you ever thought that this genius ever came back and left? My brother punched me in the arm because he had a charley horse, my brother. Thanks to you, did you ever wonder that maybe your ability to get hit by the Lakers organization is reduced. You know there's a process where you know you find the balance when you're in front of the public where you have to tell the truth to be honest, yeah. You know, and hopefully you don't have to compound it, but you have to be honest, so I'm trying to be honest with Dwight and there are some things about Dwight's game that you know when you put the ball in the post. turn it around, he commits offensive fouls, there are things that are limited, but in the process of making them part of the game it activates him as a rebound-blocking defender and that is his genius as a player, this is what could really be great.

That's being the best defensive player in the game and stopping everyone that comes in the line and changing shots and you know taking out teams in the rush that your home team flees because of a blocked shot or a bad shot or change of art or whatever, so putting the ball in the post and putting it in the post with the ball is important, you don't have to do it, you know, 20 times a game you have to do it, you have to do it to keep him involved. and that's participation and I, Mike, Mike does a great job with a lot of the offensive things that he does on the court, so it's not just about you know, it's about how to get the best out of this player, how to get him to do it. make. be the best player, you can be okay, this is going to be, we are going to ask questions in a few minutes and I asked you to please have intelligent questions, okay, but this is one of my last questions. smart is smart depends on who I talk to you are the coach of the Lakers for ten seasons you win five championships why aren't you the coach of the lake it could have been that we lost twice in the finals no, I think I think we wanted to talk to you about that , you took her to avoid organizing people, oh man, it became physical for me and Dr.

Buzz asked me to stay when I felt like my time was up and we got through the process. I won two championships, he asked me to stay the last year because of the lockout that was going to happen, the idea that maybe the season wouldn't even happen that year, you know that, instead of having to hire a coach and give him a four. or five-year contract, you know I can, you know, naturally, finish my tenure with the Lakers, so I did it as a favor, you know, someone, I appreciate it, but I also did it because, you know, there's the staff, you know, 15 to 20. people who are involved in a basketball organization and it was important to them, but when I finished, I knew it was over, I mean, physically, I did it, it was over for me even though Aven, after every prostate knee replacement, prospecting and so on in the last year and a half I feel like yeah, you know, sometimes I feel like I can still go out and do it, but the reality is I'm kidding myself if I feel like that, yeah, It's those long three o' clock flights at night get up after five hours of sleep and go back to work those are the things that wear you down you should have been hanging out with me I made the same schedule we watched a different movie everyone no seriously let's ask your questions, hey Ted, how are we going to do it, you have to come out with the microphone, okay, the questions will work like this, they usually start with a w or an H, sometimes a D, they are not statements either.

I'll come and get you a microphone or is there someone there Lowe coach Jackson thanks for tonight by the way okay give it up to 50 you're probably more qualified than anyone for this one you played your contemporary. I believe that for some time with Wilt Chamberlain. obviously you coach Shaquille O'Neal, the strengths and weaknesses of each one and if you have to rank them who is number one who is number two on that list of two centers that I played with, I get six years against Wilt Chamberlain and he was a guy who was slow to get angry.

He was a tremendous athlete who played a lot under his limitations. I had to play center one year and I'm six foot eight and one of the things they taught you is that he wilts. He doesn't like offensive fouls if you take the shoulder. and you fake an offensive foul or take the load, so to speak, he really stops getting aggressive and that was the only thing you know that was kind of a limitation on Wills' game. If the backup became shoddy and the dipper finger movement led the league. in assists one year, they actually played in a triangle offense led by one of USC's Texas teammates Alex Hannum, a thinner player led the league in SS in 1967-68.

I think it was eight and a half was the leading number with Shaquille. Not Shaquille. He has the same mouth as others, the head of the world, he had the bounce and the speed, but he didn't have the stamina, obviously in the 48 minutes of the night we talked about he had a jumping hook, while Wilt didn't have it. . he had a jump hook, he had a lightning bolt shot, he had a hook, finger spin and jump shot spin and Shaq was in the sprinter's post where he would fall and get ahead of the crowd and wilt, you never know much about a mail printer used to take his time, in fact, when it bounced he often leaned over, the guards would turn towards him to receive the ball, so he would be there when the ball reached the other end of the court, one of the things the Coach Sharma and Coach Sharman was also a teammate of Tex Winter and also ran the triangle offense.

One of the things Bill did when he withered was he dug up, got a towel and picked up the ball for Goodie and West. and then Goodrich and West had the ball and got some athleticism and fast break activity, but that was a difference. I think the free throws were a big weakness on both points, they really changed the rules when he was in the game. He got three to make two, so even then at that point you'd be wrong if he was under the lane and one night we're in the playoffs, Philly sticks with Philly when he was still with Philly and they found out that both Bellamy and Willis Reed and I finished. having to be the third center to come in and play well in the double overtime game, so it was one of those things, but I think with will, I would take it when he came up to shoot that hard.

Blow, it was very strong, thank you for your question, the next coach a couple of years ago, Jerry West was at one of these talks and they came to see him speak and yes, one of the things that intrigued me, he explained to us, he talked about their relationship with you and him they described it as if you just didn't have one, that's true and can you describe a little more about your relationship with Jerry West? Yes, I will, it's interesting that there was a kind of bitter feeling behind it, it wasn't like that. We were still on the forum when I came here and the facilities were not available to choose from February was in February so our practice facility we would practice at West L Lake with Southwest Southwest Community College and we would compose in comedy so we did that.

I don't have a house to speak of, so my staff and I would meet there, you know, at 9:30, the players would arrive at 10:30, we would have practice at eleven and sometimes Jerry would come at the end of the practice. and we could exchange a few words or whatever and that was it. I didn't go to the forum or have an office at the forum at the time the basketball offices were there, so it wasn't until mid-February that we actually had a setup. where we had offices and a space together so we didn't really form a relationship, however Jerry would always call me if you had a conversation with the player and we always had a relationship, there was a very good business relationship but we didn't have a social relationship. relationship at that particular time, there was a situation that happened and I should explain it to you and I think it might even be in the book, there's so many things, partly if you get to the point where you didn't want to have practice. right, we had a game where everything was going well, you know, we were doing very well, but we did pretty well in the ball game and then all of a sudden it was like halftime stopped and everything slowed down and the state The mood changed and we got to the locker room, we won by four or six points, but it wasn't fun at all, the last five minutes of the game were arduous and painful, and you know, I was like I was confused, we had to fight to win. this to win it, so I kicked everyone out of the locker room, the ball boys, the coaches, you know, Jerry and Mitch Kupchak came to thea gift and then we'll sign, but this is my The new wine is called vegan vine, this is vegan, this is a vegan wine, but besides that, I bought you something vormax in this prostate so you can and I bought one for your girl, so you have wine and pills and you are rich, this is for you your