Pakistan Needs New Direction, New Ideas: Prof Ishtiaq Ahmed | #pakistan #pakarmy #shahbazsharif

I don't think they understand that for Pakistan to stabilize and grow robustly, good relations with India are a prerequisite welcome to the essentials Global News I am yours gangadin today I have with me Professor Ishak Ahmed, he is a political scientist, he is also an acclaimed writer of historical books, has written a book about Jen that came out a few years ago. Jen, as you know, is the founder of Pakistan and the book has been widely acclaimed and talked about. Professor Isak Ahmed, I'm glad I can Are you in our studio? Thank you very much for having me sir, my focus is more current, yes it is about Pakistan since the elections and what is your opinion on how things have been going there?

We have a government in power, it seems stable for now. but uh, we also keep reading about a lot of undercurrents, uh, what can you tell us about the current situation? Well, I think so far the establishment has always been able to finally get its own uh will prevail and it looks like this time. They have also been successful, although there is a huge mass support for Imran Khan which cannot be denied, but I don't think they are in a position to launch a nationwide movement to challenge the establishment and the current government. They need it in the first place because of the budget that has to be approved and then people say that sometimes from May to July would determine whether this government would last longer or not.

Pakistan's problems are that any government in power has to face the harsh reality of huge debt. under which Pakistan is crushed and we do not have a well-functioning industrial sector. The agrarian sector is stagnant, there are no jobs, the bazaars are empty, the shops are in poor condition, so there is a feeling of despair, despondency, eh, so that is the unfortunate situation in Pakistan, but at the moment it seems that now we have governments in all four provinces and in the center and apparently things have started happening as per standard procedures, now the army has the power behind the throne.

You are supposed to have a good understanding of the situation on the ground in terms of economics and so on. Do you think the current setup that they've been able to implement is part of that longer plan to stabilize? the economy, where do you see this? Do you see the general lines of an economic plan they have? Justice U. General Aimir has been talking to economists and said that he has some fantastic

ideas

and in his first speech as Prime Minister, Shabah Sharif. Shabah Sharif said that by 2030 he hoped Pakistan would be a member of the G20.

Now that I think many of you know the rhetoric, I don't think either of you have concrete

ideas

on how to get out of the mess. that has built up over the years, you see that you can't run an economy if you sort of subordinate everything to a perceived threat to the existence of Pakistan, mainly from India, but then from many other, yes, places of the world, so you spend money on arms races. in the arms race has been devastating for Pakistan, something comparable to how the Soviet Union finally went bankrupt due to the arms race and I think at this moment I don't think that the ideas that they have are very convincing and very concrete, but can you imagine a collapse like the one the USSR went through?

Interestingly, the collapse was, uh, in the USSR it was a decision of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, while the republics that did not want to leave the Soviet Union, but Pakistan did. The situation is very different. I think there is a B separatist movement that wants to separate from Pakistan. There is an emerging threat in the tribal areas where, you know, there is a desire to leave Pakistan. What remains then is. Sy and Sy always have complaints against Pakistan, it's just Punjab, which I would say is the support base of the Pakistani state and I would even say that the Pakistan army right now, if there is no intervention from a great power, I think has the ability and ability to keep B at bay as well as the people on the border, this low scale insurgency can continue for a long time, but I don't think the Pakistan army can be defeated by these separatist movements alone, uh , but Pakistan can continue like this for how long, I don't know because ultimately if the treasury is bankrupt and no one bails it out, like the Americans and the Saudis used to do, now the Chinese probably have an interest in keeping Pakistan, so Pakistan must make radical changes in its orientation, especially in the region.

I'm not saying so much with India, but Pakistan

needs

to normalize relations with India, start some kind of trade, let's say, let the books and medicines arrive. You know, I remember where. Back in 2004, when Imran Khan was just a rising politician, he was in Karachi trying to build another cancer hospital and I think Amir Khan, this Bollywood actor, was there, so I remember Imran Khan saying you know there's a pill against cancer that if you buy in the West like we do it costs 161 rupees, but if you buy in India it is only 52 rupees, so you can see the great advantage that the Pakistani people would get from a normalization of relations with India and that is what I am arguing all the time and I hope that the Pakistani policy makers, the power bearers, start listening to me.

I'm not the only one. Of course, there are other voices being raised in Pakistan, but this whole notion of resolving the Kashmir dispute first and that too the way Pakistan wants it, uh, that won't provide a breakthrough, we will have to do something unusual to start with to make a change in Pakistan's relations with India and then I think that Goodwill can be worked on to normalize relations even with the Afghan government and China, of course. we have a kind of equation that is stable. I'm trying to understand how the park army believes, you know, 50 years ago, I mean, quite a few years ago, the Bangladesh army, which is a Pakistani clone, decided to get away from the business of uh, in politics it hasn't happened to them. same to the Pakistan army, yes, although their spirit and background are the same, what do Pakistani generals have that makes them different?

Let us remember historically that the invasions to the subcontinent never came from the northeast, so the Bengalis who joined the army To begin with, the army was a very small group. Secondly, I think in Bangladesh they realized that good relations with India are good for Bangladesh and if they really want to develop, I think some of those generals who were involved in the assassination of uh mujibur. Rahman was even hanged so that group was crushed and the new Bangladesh army is the way armies should be, they should be there to defend national borders but let politicians manage internal affairs.

Pakistan from day one never had this opportunity Mr. Jenna before. Pakistan was born to promote Pakistan towards the West, uh, that we would join the anti-communist, anti-Russian, anti-Soviet containment policy, uh, uh, if you co-opt us and that is what remains the problem of Pakistan, that during that period the amount of economic military resources The help that came only strengthened an institution in Pakistan, while the politicians were after Jam, let's say he was the founder of Pakistan, although some of his decisions I think were disastrous for democracy, but by their nature , his people respected him, etc. he left, things started to go wrong and they could never stabilize so we have never had a leader like uh jaal Neu or a home minister like uh Sardar Patel during the formation phase, it is when the state is being formed that it is They need people with a vision. and a commitment: we had this tragedy of not having those people around and over time that has only gotten worse.

We'll take a short advertising break here to welcome you. I am talking to Professor Ishak Ahmed about Pakistan and of course India. Professor, you mentioned, um, um, the whole political setup in Pakistan now after the elections and everyone who believes that the Army has the intellectual depth are the people in the Army, even today, who know who understands these issues . Do you see a situation where within the military itself there is a debate about what its rules should be in the future. Well, you know, I wrote a book Pakistan the Garen State and, to my great surprise, I spoke to all the retired generals, four of whom were army chiefs.

All three of them were chief of staff of the army, they have spoken with a lot of common sense and this, but they all feel that they have this, you know, without them, Pakistan would not do it because the politicians are rotten, this is a common faith that they all share . And I think this has even been taught to them and they are not far from the truth in many cases, not all, so it has been a tragedy, but I don't think they understand that it is good for Pakistan to stabilize and grow solidly. relations with India are a prerequisite as soon as they understand this.

I have said that no one in India wants Pakistan to come back and be part of aand bhat and all that is just politics. People realize that these are two states, but India would not want one state. which always exports terrorism and so on, so if you just eliminate this type of policy and both can live in peace and be good neighbors, you can always have your primary role as a defender of Pakistan, no one questions that and if there is any aggressive power that tries to destabilize Pakistan even has nuclear weapons at its disposal, so what's the problem?

Be a normal State according to international law. Interference in the affairs of other countries is illegal. It is illegal and sending mujahideen and this Gaz is nonsense. All this has to be abandoned not technically but intellectually as soon as the generals understand this. I don't think Pakistan has a big problem because it is a resilient society. However, yes, but does this idea have a following among the general public, once again? I was there for 9 weeks, I addressed 27 public audiences, universities, think tanks, etc., and everywhere, my ideas were received in a very understanding way, no one openly challenged me, there were some rude comments here and there, but that is obviously destined to happen uh and the dreaded isi did nothing to obstruct me I went everywhere even to the Civil Service Academy where all the bureaucrats are trained and believe me in the end I made them applaud when I told them that Mahatma Gandhi these are the services uh just The Muslims during that critical period, when the partition was going on, they had not been told all those things, so if I can make it so that somewhere there is a basic wisdom of people who understand that the truth is truth and ideology and so on are ultimately no match when the truth is presented and I hope this very simple idea will be accepted even by our generals and I want Pakistan to be like India growing up.

I see India not with envy but with a lot of admiration in the 10 20 years that I have been here many times, India will definitely be a great power, it will already have more weight in international affairs and the reason is that they have whatever government is there , you know, even the UPA and so on, they brought in policies on the basis of which now the present government has achieved all these great results, so in India, whatever leadership you have, the national interest is never compromised. and I think that is important, in Pakistan the governments are like the mansar system. of the emperor without knowing if they will remain in power tomorrow, so as soon as you are there, use a public office to accumulate private wealth as much as you can, that is the difference: we still have the mansari system, the emperor being the people we I know, so the emperor is there the governments are there but the governments don't have that uh uh what should I say?

This authoritarian position is simply considered a formal necessity. The real power is still in the hands of the establishment and the establishment has to make drastic changes. uh it should allow the economy to grow and you know the Pakistan army has been developing housing schemes and that's where they've made a lot of

prof

its but now I hear there are big complaints about how bad those buildings are and you know all that stuff . now they are dating on public shabash Sharif Imran Khan um Naas Sharif what is your assessment of how things are going to go for them?

I think there are some people who keep telling me that negotiations are going on with Imran Khan and uh if they can reach a deal maybe it would be possible to find a way to bring him back but most of my friends would say that Imran Khan is not stands no chance and they would try to make sure Shabah shif continues. I would have preferred M not Sharif, who is more outspoken. on good relations with India Shah Sharif is more of a politician who can fit into all situations, eh, that's how I think about it for a while.

I think the establishment was trying to promote baval BTO, but he is a sindii and has no punjabi. Being part of that team is not possible, so the future would be a year from now. I would do better because if they survive one year, then they can survive another year, another year and so on, but that's howsome people say July. It would be the turning point whether they continue or not, so the last question: India, where is it? No? Where do you see this whole India/Pakistan thing taking shape? My dream is that they become good neighbors, but at the moment it seems that uh this is just a pious wish because public statements are not in a way that encourages such understanding that we have Subash Sharif making in his uh inaugural speech as first Minister, you spent a lot of time uniting us all and doing Jihad and liberating Kashmir etc. which I think is a waste of time, it is demagoguery at its worst because it could have been saidPakistan's commitment to the people of Kashmir remains firm. , but we want to promote the overall interest of Pakistan and we look for opportunities to find them.

Then he goes on and makes another big bowl that by 2030 we will be part of the G20, how is that? you know, if you make those statements, I have said this is in Punjabi T politics. It is where you sit and make tall claims that he didn't do it, but then my friends say no, he has been told to say all this. From that side of India they are saying that we cannot forget and forgive some of the things that have happened, so where is the hope? The hope is that this is all politics, but deep down they both realize that security in terms of trade and So, good relations between India and Pakistan are a better guarantee of a bright future than if there is unrest all the time. time in that sense.

Professor Isak, thank you very much for sitting down with us for this interview. There is a lot of perspective. they told us thank you very much thank you very much for inviting me thank you sua g that's all we have for you in this edition of gist uh tune in for more informative dialogues and interviews thank you very much bye