Martin McGuinness speaks to Jeremy Paxman in 2014 - BBC Newsnight

Martin mcin, what are you doing breaking bread with a head of state of an occupying power? I have many reasons why I should not meet with Queen Elizabeth, but she also has many reasons why she should not meet with me, but we both think. It was an important thing to do, yes, but you know it goes back to when I met you in the 1970s. Yes, if I had told you, in 40 years you would be sitting down to dinner with the Queen of England. Yes, what would you say? I have thought well, similarly, I would never have imagined that I would have been Minister for Education and a shared government in the North and then, after that joint Prime Minister with Ian Paisley in a very important institution that has remained intact and stable over the last seven years, but he is still part of the United Kingdom, yes, and I am an Irish republican.

I am absolutely dedicated to ending partition and achieving unity of the people of the North and the North with the South, and we have agreed in the context of the Good Friday agreement that that can only change through a constitutional vote and I am working to achieve that, when there is a loyal toast tonight at dinner, will you stand up and toast the queen well if there is a toast to the queen, I will observe all the protocols and, uh, courtesies, but isn't it true that the year Last time, when you were here and there was a toast to the Queen at a dinner in the City of London, were you unavoidably absent from the room at that time?

Well, actually, it was an absolute coincidence, believe it or not. I was going to ask you how your bladder was. It was appropriately ready to go. That was just a coincidence. It was good? It really was a coincidence. Do you regret not having gone? to the dinner at Dublin Castle then two years ago, three years ago, well my group obviously wasn't ready for that event at the time and since then we've had huge conversations and discussions with our own people, particularly in advance . of Belfast City Queen Elizabeth and whether or not I should participate in a meeting with her at that time and, indeed, people realized in the context of a conflict resolution process that it was very important to participate, not in M words about reconciliation, but real acts of reconciliation, right?

Did you see how popular the Queen's visit to Ireland was and realize that by not being part of it you were losing political capital? No, that's not the reason at all. I mean, I watched that visit happen very carefully and I must say that I was tremendously impressed, tremendously impressed that Queen Elizabeth was willing to appear in solemn commemoration of those people who fought against British rule in Ireland and that she was willing to honor the Irish language the way she did it sounds familiar to me if you should toast her well as I say in the course of the events tonight I won't disappoint anyone we'll see do you think U these events this visit that last visit?

They are bringing a United Ireland closer. I believe we are moving inexorably towards the reunification of Ireland, but this can only happen by purely peaceful and democratic means, and I do remember the Martin McGinness of those many years when we were both much younger. I wouldn't have dreamed of settling for anything other than a 32c county socialist republic if I told you now that it's been sold, what would you say? Well, the important thing is that the people who elect me don't believe that I've exhausted myself. I am in a constituency that is one of the most republican nationalist in all of Ireland and in every election I have participated in in that constituency my mandate has increased because people want peace.

In fact, I think the vast majority of people are miles ahead of even some of the most negative politicians who are right there in this changed environment that we all find ourselves living in. I wonder if you don't think it's time for a general amnesty, it's time for all those on the run to have an amnesty, shouldn't the British soldiers who got caught up in this get an amnesty too? I think we've made enormous progress in the context of, hopefully, if we can conclude the discussions on the The next few months will provide a menu of options for a very important electorate, those are the victims and I think that's the best way to approach it, Because we have different opinions within the victims' groups, there are people who do want people to be arrested. we want convictions, we have other people who want people to be arrested, but they don't want convictions, and we have all of our people here who are part of victims groups who don't want anyone to be arrested at all, what does that mean in terms of amnesty for the British? soldiers as applied to some members of the IRA very effectively, the British army and British soldiers who have been involved in the murder of hundreds of nationalists and republicans in the north have had an amnesty.

I ask them what they think, but the number of British soldiers who were actually accused and went to prison can be counted on one hand. I'm asking you what you think should happen. I've told you what I think should happen. I don't think you have an opinion on the negotiations. I have a question: what makes our approach better than the one you suggest? For the simple reason that I say that you do not believe in an amnesty for British soldiers, but you do believe in it for the republicans, but the republicans did not. There was no amnesty. 180 letters were sent to people who had no case to answer.

You don't think that, in the interest of justice, there should be seen to be equity between what happens, let's call them soldiers on both sides. I don't think so. I have made it very, very clear that I think you cannot compare the issue of what happened during the escapes with the situation regarding the British army, but it is a completely different world now, as they have done. I have already acknowledged that what we hope the parties to the talks will agree over the course of the next few months is that we provide a menu of options for people who have suffered as a result of the conflict, so that no one, including Chen, will argue in favor of an amnesty.

No, thank you, thank you.