Israel and Palestine | Middle Ground Roundtable

I don't think you know that a Palestinian and an Israeli would meet on the street or in a bar. It is very important for me to constantly listen and connect with people who have a different interest in this game than the other side. Sitting in everyone's presence you can feel more than what they are feeling and I think that is what we all need right now to humanize the so often dehumanized, obviously there are two sides to this discussion and the only way out is through I have I lost someone in the war, first of all, I consider everyone in um, in Razza or Palestine, to be an extended member from my family, but I actually lost 23 extended members of my family, inaz, yeah, um, and for me, in the West Bank, where my family. lives, I lost one of my cousins ​​who was just coming home from work at our family's grocery store and he happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and ended up getting shot by an Israeli soldier who was stationed on the corner looking for someone and shot him and he immediately died I'm sorry, I'm very sorry, two friends who were murdered in a massacre, actually one of them, his burned body, was recognized a few days ago, 40 something days later, and they In fact, burying a small part of the leg, which was the only thing left, but I have a list of dozens of friends who were killed because it is a long war.

I guess I didn't start on October 7th. My point I guess, um and uh, yeah, sorry for your loss, yeah, um, I lost friends at none of the nature parties that were attacked, it's actually another nature party that was also attacked called Psyduck , which not many people really know about. a smaller party, a smaller party, yes, I was there, um, yes, I mean, Nova was the same location as my first nature party in 2012. I've been attending them ever since and to say the community was devastated is really an understatement um yeah it was just horrible that's really what it was I'm sorry for you I lost it I lost a lot of friends that day October 7th uh one of them was my best friend one of my best friends was called Mo she she was with us on the beach that day um and she went home with her mother and on the way home hundreds of terrorists caught her and shot her dead.

Two friends of mine who were at the Nova Super Nova Music Festival also died there and were killed on the spot and their body was just dumped somewhere inside Gaza two weeks later and one of my best friends, brother Major, he called that day for the army to help the people of U, the village of Bay, which was taken by Hamas terrorists and when he went there with his unit, he died there, living behind a wife with whom he lived. They got married maybe a year ago and my mom's best friend. I have a daughter who was married to a guy named Tai, he was also in the army and the second day he went to zakim where he was on the beach and he also died there along with his two best friends and since October 7th I lost too many people and I'm still counting yeah, I think we can all agree that we've all been doing that since October 7.

You know, I have a lot of friends where I live in Washington DC that have immediate family in Gazza right now. You know they left to study or work and every day I hear them calling frantically to see if their families are home. alive, you know one of them, his brother was one of the last nurses left at the Alifa hospital until last week, he finally left the uncertainty when he is like your immediate family. I think it's debilitating and you know it puts you in a tunnel where only I can see your pain but it's obvious that pain is everywhere and we all feel the same things and you know that none of that should have happened and none of that should be happening so I think a conversation like this right now is extremely important for all of us to understand that and to your point when you see it happening to your family um I'm sure your friends probably have a similar feeling um it settles into a much deeper level um when we have a family group chat um a lot of my relatives are my aunts and they are in Egypt so we have a family group chat and when the events occurred and you start to see the group chat transform from controlling each other yeah in the usual memes and jokes, you know, got it guys?

Oh, we haven't heard from them in three days. The power went out when I started seeing that on my WhatsApp group. It's like I said, I consider everyone in Palestine and any innocent human being really part of our extension. family, but that resonates on a much deeper level. I have been sitting with a lot of guilt. Being the only Palestinian American of my cousins. You know, my family made it out. My dad wanted to give us a better life. and then you know he brought us, he brought my mom here. I was born and raised here, but when I was a teenager we came back and I lived in Palestine, so it was a shock to see how the occupation affected our daily lives, you know?

I was 13, you know, but coming from Ohio, from the Midwest, you know everything is open and free and then here you're like going to the grocery store and there's tanks rolling down the street, you know, soldiers with guns walking around some days. like we couldn't go to school because they would close the checkpoints and close the border like you're not going to go today and you know when I was a kid I thought it was cool like oh I don't have to go to school today. but now I look back and think that's a bit confusing how long ago did they move?

Did they move from Palestine? It was in the '90s, mid-'90s. I grew up in southeast Jerusalem and, um, I remember. In fact, in the early 9s, we used to go to Kilia and Janine and we used to shop there because it was cheaper, you know, and we used to eat Kus there and, good humas, a lot, brother, a lot. favorite knife, you know, so, um, in fact, I even understand some of the language. I grew up in a place with uh um, a lot of Israeli Muslims and um, and you're right, I was. I remember it was actually a A great time in the 90s in that area when everything became more complicated in the second intifa when I started my military time I was F years and a half in the army I was Special Ground Forces I know Gaza like I know my uh my uh hand and um the problems are the closure of the checkpoint and it all started only in the late 90s.

I'm talking dramatically because of many terrorist attacks that occurred in uh in Israel, so in At the beginning of the Intifa, in 2000 , it was impossible for Jews, obviously, to enter Janin or, obviously, the entire West Bank, but before that we could, because before that we didn't have that many. terrorist attack so the occupation from the way we see it occupation I don't call it occupation I call it uh uh protect your country from uh some extremist terrorist organization I think you called it right. I will be the last person to say that it is a complete group because I have many friends to this day, even from long ago, and even childhood friends that I grew up with, so I am, my past is very rich with Muslims. um uh Arabs Israeli Arabs uh culture but um in my opinion it's super strong because I felt the difference between the 90s and the terrorist attack that happened because of uh um uh Hamas obviously woke up the monster, let's put it that way Okay, so I didn't give a I step forward because while my mom and dad know people who have been victims, I had the privilege of being born and raised in Detroit and spending two, three months in a row on multiple occasions in the West Bank, so that's it. why didn't I step forward what was your name such and such what did you say when you first came down that you know everyone there it's your family I feel that way as a Jew about Isel, but I didn't want to take anything away from who I'm sure that we had real personal connections, but we deeply feel everything we see and of course I know many people who live in Israel who thank God were not in the south on October 7th and who are fine now thank God, but We're signing up and everyone knows someone.

It is as if we are all one degree away from tragedy. So that means that's why I didn't agree. I didn't lose anyone, but I got married in Palestine. I'm not going to say which one. Town to protect my ex-husband, but before we got married, he was arrested. His village was attacked by the IDF and he threw a rock that big at an Israeli tank and they arrested him for four years, where they beat him, tortured him, starved him, and according to his family, they didn't know him at the time. He was never the same and even after we got married, you know, you asked him the questions and you know what happened and what it was like in prison and you could see the fear in his eyes and you could feel his pain and a lot of people don't realize it. that many Palestinians who are arrested are never given a fair trial, that's actually remarkable what you're saying here H, it's not all two-thirds of the Palestinians are not tried, they are not charged.

H, yes, I told you what happened to me, they were always, always, is he lying? I'm giving you a personal account of what happened to my husband, um, this is not a source or a website or a video. Yes, I think it's a personal story. I think basically what he's saying is that according to our law, which may not necessarily always be followed, according to our law and if it were discovered, there would be Pro. Massive protests like the ones we do as a people and the law states legally they would have to be a tri, no not everyone likes that in Israel to be fair that's fair, so what about the children who are imprisoned? go through the proper trial a 12-year-old child a 13-year-old child a 14-year-old child is there some there is there is some trial that justifies children being children I'm giving it to you I'm telling you right now that my my husband didn't get a fair trial and my ex-husband did not get a fair trial.

Why, because years have passed, you took your situation and I'm not taking away your situation like you did mine, you took our personal experience and situation and With all due respect, he referred to you when an Israeli tank attacks a Palestinian village. All Palestinians are supposed to stay there and just take it so we know the prisons are full of children. They are terrorists too. They are murderers if you throw a stone. if you throw a stone you are a terrorist yes, oh, if you throw a stone you are ter if you attack us if you attack with this it is called this is the main example of not having due judgment a judgment means that you can investigate, look at the cause of what what happened look because this is the logic this is the logic of isra if you are palestinian you are I would love to say some final words about the actual message yes okay because I think it is It is disrespectful to all the people that we lost during this war to continue this path right now.

In fact, I broke the news about the nature festival before any other media from friends who were there and I'm sitting there getting these messages at night. It was Saturday night and it was horrible and I think what we're all experiencing in terms of checking on our family, I mean, my sister just gave birth in a bomb shelter about a week ago, you know, I think it's a very common experience. and it's something that both people on both sides can relate to and it's one of the areas that a lot of these random people who are so dissociated from this that they're chiming in can't really feel and I think it's something that's really intense and I know that I personally can't log into Facebook anymore without just seeing the funeral and Shiva announcements and I find it very difficult to go through that every day but I have to check because we don't even know who is missing or who is dead 100% yet so, like last week, my friends, two twin cousins ​​who were 12 years old, were found finally identified, their bodies were burned to a crisp that it took so long, so I think with a notice like this we should give due . respect the people we all lost and take a moment to validate the fact that many of us are sitting here having lost family friends people we have known over the years friends of friends cousins ​​of cousins ​​ants i mean, It's almost It's impossible not to be affected by this um so yeah I'm sorry for everyone's losses and may everyone's memory be a blessing inshallah and we also apologize for your loss.

I would like to point out that, although it is very difficult, your sister gave birth. in an air raid shelter there are no air raid shelters for the people of Kaza. I trust the information I get from social media more than the news. Obviously, it is very important that we use verified news sources. There is so much misinformation, I think about both. sides um, I know I've corrected people on the Palestinian side like, hey, I don't think this is really true, like maybe you know we need a source, if you're reposting something from someone else, also tag the journalist you know or news site it's coming from just to simplify the information because you know misinformation can hurt the cause more than real information that's not truly shared and I think in order to honor what's happening and to be able to truly advocate it's important that we're just To tell the truth, there are many different types of networks, some that are more in the

ground

, like Jaaz and Mayadin, and then obviously there's the American media CNN, the New York Post and the New York, you know, and the Washington Post.

A lot of times, in general, I feel like the traditional American Media media hasn't been fair on a lot of other issues before this, so I don't necessarily turn to them. But I do look at all media sources because I want to have a fair view of what what is happening and I also look at the Israeli media. Can I ask a question because I saw that in your opinion the bias of the American media is anti-Palestinian or The anti-Jewish bias is what you see when you say that the American media is not anti-Palestinian, that is very interesting because for Jews we believe that it is a bias so anti-Jewish that they can't be right at the same time, it's one or the other and anti-Palestinian, oh why did you say it's because if you look at the wording, there is selective language, there are omissions and certain words are added that paint a narrative with a lot of force, so when they say clashes between, you know, the Palestinian forces, Israeli forces, and Hamas, but look.

When you see what the real story is and read the fine print, which unfortunately most people don't, it turns out that Israeli forces, in any situation, could have stormed a village and shot a child, but the headline says confrontations at any time, that's the other thing. There is a way to avoid terrorism, so I think it is very important to label people correctly and some people are terrorists and should be labeled as such, but when you leave out certain information for a specific purpose, this is what I love about Western media. literally, what you're saying could be taken word for word from a conversation at a Jewish dinner, they do the exact same thing to Jews, where absolutely, like the day after this October 7th massacre, the guys who fly in and rape and burn people are being called militants. and non-terrorists, freedom fighters, there are literally examples of, for example, if there is a terrorist attack in Israel, the BBC will publish as if the IDF, you know, shoots the Palestinians instead of as if the terrorists literally come and They tried to stab people and then they were neutralized by the IDF, so I honestly think I like the language and, by the way, I have a lot of Palestinian friends.

I know you think the media is biased against you and I know we think the same too. I see this on both my feeds, it's like this. Clearly we both feel that way and I think instead of dismissing the fact that we just don't see it, maybe we need to send each other examples of articles that we consider to be completely biased and that have really bad headlines and the truth is that by the way, the Most of these media organizations don't even have a personal incentive in the region, they are just stirring and stirring this pot without likes and we are just fighting over this, we shouldn't let them do it, but the BBC is CNN legitimately so anti-Semitic It has taken years to get around and its headlines are an absolute atrocity.

They never report on anything that happens for the Israeli side. They only report our response, but how is that anti-Semitic because they never report the situation? The attacks that come towards us only inform what we do and yes, everything I see is fine, it is interesting how we have done it. I'd say we're probably looking at things through different lenses. So when you say the news you see something on You should definitely check social media as far as the US media and this is just my opinion the US media we have been fed has been feeding lies over the years, not just this conflict in general.

So when you say not having a, let's say, a dog in the race, it's simply not true because Joe Biden clearly supports Israel unequivocally, so you can't say that there is no Israeli prejudice in America. The United States always supports Israel. That is a fact. I have a problem with Joe Biden. probably like everyone is fine with it Jo, don't think according to you not because the Democrats definitely Biden repeated the baseless claim that 40 babies were Joe Biden says that because he saw what we showed him if I believe in Joe Biden and his support to Israel, I think it's a big nonsense, yes, you do, Jo Biden or Israel, just fed Iran.

I don't think you just know. It turned on. I think it's a political question. The United States does not support Israel well. I don't believe that the United States is not Jo us. I just wasted 15 billion US dollars. The United States is not back in the news, although the IDF has a long history of lying. They lied about killing Sharen abak, the journalist my mother was friends with. I was going to walk here, but she wasn't my friend. She was a friend of my mom, um, they said something else happened to her. Independent investigations came to believe a sniper while he dressed Janine.

I think it was that she was wearing a news reporting jacket, she was murdered, that's just one example, so the news lies. all the time that's a good example of how they didn't label that run when she first arrived they didn't do it a Palestinian journalist dies no no she didn't die she was killed by a sniper who intentionally shot her between the helmet look look at the rocket the rocket that fell in the Alifa Hospital parking lot how was that it was a catastrophe but no I agree we are probably both missing, same thing he says, remember the whole big deal about Alifa? being bombed by Israel that hundreds of people had that the news came out in minutes after minutes sorry hospital after 2 minutes they said that 500 people and this Israel had bombed all the islands of important news reported this that is what happened no it was not proven very unequivocally that this is not the case.

What happened was that an Islamic Jihad rocket failed and went off, so our shots are so strong that it fell, that is why 500 people did not die. It would have been much greater damage if it had been a bomb dropped from an Israeli plane like them. He said yes, but it was 500 people who died, it's not a lot of damage, people didn't die from it, but 20,000 in total, you know we're not talking about that, but I'm talking about it? I want to talk about where you get that number, but from 10 to 50, those are the numbers that were reported once all the deaths were resolved by all the other international organizations to bring it back to the news and see the way that some news organizations verify or publish later. or post early but spell things wrong or things like that, it's eye-opening to see how quickly misinformation can spread.

I will say that social media can't just be dismissed completely because it presents a sort of first-hand perspective, however, I prefer to get my first hand. perspective from my friends and family on the

ground

and I think that's the news I was most looking forward to hearing today because I feel like it's the personal experiences that we're not really hearing from everyone. others online um or in the news and I think that's first hand news that people should share um you know me personally I have the Rocket Alarm app on my phone but I also get a text from like eight What'sapp different. group chats you know when it rocks everyone's good everyone's good did it so I think that's also a very important source of news and ideally I would love to be able to share first hand news like that with people like you and also receive it from you like Well, I think that's the most reliable information we can get.

Yeah, I mean, like I said, I have a lot of friends that have family directly there, so they give you photos and videos when there's internet access, but I was sitting with one. from my friends one day when she called me hysterical at 7 in the morning. and he told me that his parents had just called him and told him to say goodbye to them because the bombs were getting closer to their house and the fear in his voice was really choking me and I didn't know what to do for him, so he came, we tried to call His family, his parents didn't answer, I didn't know what to do for him, you know, he's like my parents were going to die.

I'm in America and I can't be there for them and I have never seen or been in a situation where someone so close to me was dealing with something like this. I mean, he literally stayed by my side all day until we could verify that his family was going to be okay. and that they finally moved out of their neighborhood and that's why they're still safe to this day, but you know, watching videos directly from friends like you said on the ground just has another layer of devastation, uh, because it makes you realize that are real. people who are connected to the suffering a lot of times because news agencies can't really be on the ground in certain hot areas like that, it's nice to have trusted people that you can connect with and get that information from um and that brings an extra layer , I think only of Humanity because it is not just a Corporation like the one reported in the news, it is someone real who is there in the

middle

of everything, you know we need that because many of our casualties are In fact, this was not reported on this tomorrow.

I was in the bathroom on my phone like we do and I looked up murdered kids. I was trying to find a specific kid and four of them showed up, two of them, sorry, five in total, two of them. again, a few hours ago, and then there were four others who died three days ago in Janine, six, one 16 years old, one 15 years old, one 14 years old and one 19 years old, and it was very difficult to find that there were no Western sources. In reporting on this, I had to search in Arabic for their names to appear in the role of Palestinian victims and it was almost impossible.

I was surprised that there were four under 18s, one of them 19 miners who died and I couldn't find this report. I'm like wait I'll Google it oh it'll pop up oh here and it just didn't pop up it's like H so yeah we need to have people on the ground and the others like him that are reporting because there's a bias against us and our stories are being hidden, they are being erased. All I'm trying to get you to see is that it's the same on both sides, but it can't be exactly the same. It's that one side's stories are buried and the others disagree.

I think both sides can clearly be buried, they are because I'm not trying to invalidate your experience, but you're trying to validate mine. I tell you that we are different, exactly, let's say. It is from the media in general, exactly what we suffer from. I feel like we're in a movie and we're the actors and we're the puppets and there's some people out there that watch the movie and they just enjoy it and eat their fruit and there's a lot of uh uh uh people suffering in this listen I'm listening to you I swear I want to cry, I swear, no one, no one in this world, and I don't care about size, whether it's Palestinian or Jewish, or whether a Ukrainian or a Russian is supposed to live under bombs, no way, okay, and I'm talking to you like a veteran, like someone who was in there, is someone who volunteered to carry all that, is someone who has friends, Muslims, no one and and you know what all my friends also in Israel, no one wants to go to Gaza, we know that we are afraid, it is, it is, he's afraid to go to Gaza we didn't want to as friends when we were kids I went when I was 19, we don't want to go there at all, we don't want to, but that's sad, we don't want to, it's super sad bro, it's super sad, what I'm dealing with What I mean is that he listens to what you're talking about. the publication we are also talking about the publication we have the same problem we are suffering the same thing and some people are watching and it's like and we are puppets and we play we play the game of our game you play the game of your game and we think there is some money here and some people benefit from this now look at our government the news uh uh Outlets or social media what's the difference everyone has an agenda can we agree that Al Jazer definitely has more sympathy and a bias towards the Palestinian struggle just as we can agree Western countries and the media have always unequivocally supported Israel now now it is a little less biased now it is a little less biased yes they have yes they have done it some maybe but they can do it all media Outlet in everything America, have you ever heard we're talking about the major on CNN Fox?

Oh, because now they're being more honest, that hates you, they've always hated it because they show them the D kids in Gaza, that's how we are. It's a fact that we send money to Israel, yes the media to us too, but we also send money to Palestine, they also just released a ton of money to Iran, the United States is the biggest podster in this whole thing, I mean , it's like they love to cause. problems in the region of America, Israel, Palestine, the conflict brought to you by Qatar, Iran, us, Russia, all those who have no real direct interest and just want to mess with us, that is the problem and it is as if to say We're sitting here like puppets while all our governments still fool us, but this is what I have a problem with.problem and you can agree to disagree over and over again with all due respect, right, we're trying to find a

middle

ground here, but hear me out before we all leave okay.

For 75 years of illegal occupation we have been bleeding and we have been suffering, whether you want to hear it or not, please respect that, that is what we are saying. I get it, I get it if maybe if I was sitting next to you, it's okay, but just have a little, I'm asking for compassion, where is the humanity? And every time we say, well, this Palestinian person was united by the Israeli forces or this and this and that is no offense then on the Israeli side, yes, but what about us? Well, simply 10,000 Palestinians. They were disunited and bombed in Gaza, then the Israelis, what about us?

We've been bleeding and crying for 75 years, when is it our turn to cry? You are right in terms of media bias, Western media against Palestinians, have you ever listened to a Western publication? affirms that Palestine has the right to defend itself. Supplementary question: do any of you believe that Palestine has the right to defend itself. The first question is really interesting. No. It's actually a really interesting question. It is indicative of a bias. uh, no, because I would like to answer the second question. I respond that I think there is a bias against the two of us by the way, I don't disagree no no no no the news I think the news is biased towards the two of us and I think we are coming to an understanding of that however I believe The second question is also very interesting because, as we see it, we are never on the offensive.

As I understand it, I understand that you guys don't agree, just listen to me. I think this is where there is a big misunderstanding, from Israel's perspective. We have offered peace so many different times from our perspective, we have offered peace diplomatically so many times and it has always been responded to with war and violence and therefore from our perspective we would never start those wars or violence if they had not been started against us, that is . why we call ourselves the IDF Israel Defense Forces, for us that is our perspective and at this moment unequivocally, if there were no terrorist attacks, much of what is happening simply would not exist, everything that has been in place, the blockages, this, that and the other. others came later as answers, so when we withdrew from Gaza in 2005 we didn't have the blockades that existed we didn't have the blockades that existed now why did those happen?

Because in the following years, right after that, rockets immediately started flying from The terrorist attacks in Gaza immediately started to emerge, so for us we have done it from our perspective, that's how we see it, we are constantly offering concessions diplomatic statements that are rejected and rejected with violence and often with violence against some of our most sacred beings. days so from your perspective defending yourself I feel really bad because this is the difference in perception because I can understand where you are coming from being frustrated because the use of defense is not used on your uh for you guys on your side and so on.

I can understand that that would be very frustrating, but from our perspective, this is where we come from, our children should not inherit this conflict. I'm glad you all stepped up, because I think it's important for you all at the same time. as you know Foundation of what we're doing here today that we all agree that this is not a way to live and uh we can't continue to suffer you know more heartbreak and more loss um you know I always used to say like you You know, my parents used to tell me that when they had children they hoped that Palestine would be free and that we could return and live a life without difficulties, and you know that now I have people my age, you know who?

I have children, my sisters, and you know a lot of family members who also have children, and you know having that conversation and talking about who we are as a people and our history and what we've been through, and you know, passing that on intergenerationally. The trauma, you know, that continues to be endured, from our great-grandparents to us, is heartbreaking and this is not a world where we should allow something like this to perpetuate, yeah, that would be great for everyone. to be able to go and live and yes, walk the beaches and visit the sacred places and not have to fear for your life while doing so.

This is as if someone wanted to live like this forever. It's crazy if I'm bringing kids. There is enough in this world and I do not want to live in a world without the optimism that peace is a possibility. Really I do not think so. I think it's a world to live in. I refuse to believe that as a younger generation. a newer, smarter, more informed generation, that we can't come together and make something tangible actually happen for our children and I totally agree and I think the only way to do that is for people on both sides to recognize each other. and I agree, we are going to disagree on anything, but since one side has its story, its truth, its lived experience, the other has the same, we do not have to convince the other to see it exactly the way we do. same way, we just have to see it. each other and we recognize that we are both in this situation we both want to get out of it and let's treat each other like human beings and find a way to get out of it Jonah, what is your part in this?

What are you talking about? What is your involvement in this? this conflict we were talking about I'm Jewish, oh so I might like where you're from, where you live, I live in Los Angeles, where you were born, Los Angeles, okay, it's easy for you to say what you said, although I agree with what you said about we need to be able to see eyes, we need to be able to find a future for our children, but respectfully, you were born in Los Angeles, you grew up in Los Angeles, one of the best places. In the world, I love it, yeah, you don't have the answer to this conflict, to this occupation, so Jord Jonah's people's thoughts on this conflict are not valid just because he was born in Los Angeles.

I think it's crazy to invalidate it. I said I agree with his sentiment, he's still from LA, but you're still belittling him to some extent by saying he was born in LA with respect. I just don't think it's right. I think he has a lot of skin in the gaming family. In Israel he was just there getting attacked everywhere. I think there's actually a big space for people who come from different countries and feel hurt for some reason on social media or whatever and come and say what they think about the situation, the problem is that there's not going to be any.

I think this is going to end as long as the Palestinians are oppressed, subjected to blockades in Gaza, subjected to all these different things, that they have no freedom. I have gone there. I have lived there for months at a time on four different occasions. I had to go to Jerusalem. My cousin couldn't come with me. These kinds of things are not going to guarantee peace. What's going to be a wing or o rating? uh I'm going to see Janine and Refugee all these things, so of course, of course, of course, these are, come on, they're val, my friend, the point, what I'm saying, I'll get back to him, let him finish.

IDE is not an ace, it is a source, I think. we have disagreements about what we think needs to happen to end it, you think, well, everyone, just everyone, disarm on the Palestinian side and submit. I think they are not what I said. Did anyone hear me say that? He just pointed at me and said that. that's what I said who said that he said it who said that okay so I apologize for that but I think the solution would be to end the occupation the isra OCC and I totally hear you but like I said there are both sides of every story, so the Israeli side would be fine, they need to stop having terrorist attacks in Israel and we can stop at this.

That's why I say we can come and go. Many things need to happen from the beginning. many parties are going to require many outside parties having influence from the Arab region and the United States to bring people to the table to make things happen if we are caught in the international struggle of I'm there, I'm there we hate each other, that's what will never happen and the occupation is absolutely the problem, so even though you said that's how I think it will be resolved, it has to be the other countries and people have to come together. saying that the root of the problem is oppression and it's land theft from the Conant deal on your side, yeah well that's what most people in the world think, but is there an objective truth?

I would love to respond to what you are saying, there is objective truth too. truth for both sides objective truth does not have two sides objective truth is true there is that is my question is there objective truth? are you married? No, there is an objective truth for both sides. I promise you that's really funny, but that would do it. I would love to answer you because I really think this is a very important answer. Yes, I didn't ask a question. I'm sorry. I would like to answer you. Sorry for using the word response. I would love to talk to you openly because I think what you said is really important and it's something I've thought about for many years.

There's a really good book called Catch 67 by Ma Goodman that both the right and the left hated equally, so you know it's pretty decent and speaks to the idea. that we can't look at everything from a non-binary perspective, so we can't see it as peace or not peace because you're right, tensions have to be limited, relationships have to grow, we can't just offer something right away. and then boom, it's accepted, then boom, we've been trying for the last few years and it hasn't worked, so I agree that we need to minimize the uh, we need to improve, sorry, the daily lives of both Israelis and Palestinians traveling within the West Bank is a big problem and there are talks about that and potentially building a Palestinian-controlled highway through all the cities to be able to improve travel and transportation so that there aren't these kinds of strange blockades. or lockdowns where you can't take your friend somewhere or you can't visit a cousin who's in another city, there are actually a lot of really amazing organizations that are working on these kinds of tangible, actionable things that we can do to improve . the situation and the lives on the ground and, if anything, I think in the last four or five years we have seen what we have seen with the Abraham Accords bringing peace between so many nations and Israel in the Arab countries.

For me, as a Moroccan Jew, I almost cried at the idea of ​​peace between my countries, it is like reconciling my two identities. Excuse me, please let me finish reconciling my two identities. For me it was so special and for me it was one of the things we did. many people from Gaza on work visas to go to Israel to people to work is yes, but no, but I'm talking since then, I'm talking since then for the last four years and, if you've noticed, in the last 11 months in Israel I have had several protests in order to further improve the situations that we are working in and I think one of the most important things is that we do not see it as something non-binary that progressives see so quickly. sexuality and non-binary gender, but when it comes to these kinds of complex issues, everything is black or white, there is peace or not, that will never happen.

We need to come together and work on tangible things we can do to improve the situation. You're right, I really agree with you and I wish you could hear my agreement, so all I was going to answer was the Abraham Accords, which the Palestinians didn't even participate in, so no, we didn't accept the Abraham Accords because we didn't even confront each other, that's what I think most people you ask on the Palestinian side would say and this is a story that goes back a century in which these Palestinians were excluded when the neba started a million Palestinians almost a million 750 more Palestinians were expelled from their homes some fled others were killed right and then there's the 1947 partition plan which is like hey we just got here we're taking 55% you guys get 45 , they're saying we've offered a lot of resolutions that Do That, if someone came to America right now and took our country and said, "Hey, you guys get 45%," no one would accept that, so you have to look at it from that perspective as well. .

So I have kids, when we were in Tel Aviv and on October 7th I was in Tel Aviv and then we drove to Jerusalem um we heard the alarm go off. I wonder: do you hear that? Do you hear that? I'm like and my son is like yeah, what is that? That's the alarm and then I think my kids don't even know what it is, to the point where I'm happy my kid didn't know what it is because I know what it is. I grew up. in this conflict in my house we don't talk about it we don't talk about what my my my my son is like I I was we started to tell them about the history of the war there is a terrorist my son was like that in Hebrew what is Hest, my children don't know anything about this because, to me, I don't, they don't, they don't, they're not supposed to know.

My question is why are children in Gaza learning books from Hitler's books? about Hitler you see Hitler books everywherein all schools everywhere shifa in all schools they are everywhere all those books that go both ways there is not even a program in any school in Israel that will teach you to hate Arabs not even one book not even one story in school in the school curriculum it is very likely that it has been planted it is very likely that it has been planted, but can I, if you are done planting it, pass for soldiers like me, 20-year-old soers?

I planted those things M I can answer your question with another question is do you have more to say go ahead no it is not because every time we say something it has been planted you are lying listen I was a soldier 20 years old you know when by the way, you are going to Gaza when you are 20 years old until you enter the house you want to commit suicide you don't want to hit her you don't want to hit her as a soldier you don't want to hit her so there are no soldiers who place books to take a photo leadership.

Also by a human watchdog organization there was an investigation that in Israeli schools inside Israel, not all, but some, were taught to hate Palestinians, humans, you know how many human rights. Look on your website that was an investigation, but I'd like to get back to the message if Okay, everyone, the reason I don't want your children or ours to inherit this conflict is because number one may not be for you, but For us, as Palestinians, we already run the risk of sitting on this panel and never being able to go. I will return and visit our family in Palestine once again.

I have family in the West Bank. I don't know if I said before that my father is Palestinian and that my grandmother and great-grandmother are actually Jewish. From Germany. I wanted to make sure everyone. I knew I've been with Canary Mission since 2014 because I'm an activist, however, being on this panel or even what's been going on for the last month and a half or two months, whatever we're in, God help us all. risk of never visiting someone from my family in the West Bank again, although I'm not saying kill this person, kill, that's what I'm saying, just by saying Free Palestine, you can stop me. at the Tel Aviv airport and you say that's it, you can't come in because you have a cap and you're Palestinian and you said this on social media and if one day I have children, maybe my children because I spoke for humanity.

Okay, once again, this is what happens, whichever side you're talking about, maybe my kids can't come back because they say well, their mom, their mom is Rema, she can't come back, you know What I? I'm saying this has to end I'm tired I'm tired of talking about it I'm tired of getting angry I'm sure you're tired you're tired you're tired you're tired we're tired of this you know when people say oh Palestine never existed the Palestinians don't exist to take us away our right to exist is a problem for me and that is a big deal and I tell people that when they come to my Tik Tok live I let them stop immediately so you can say that Palestinians do not exist you are part of the problem right there we exist my father yes it exists our voices matter our land matters we have been there it has to stop for everyone, in fact he tweeted: Israel does not exist Palestine does not exist.

I can't think of two worse topics to start a conversation with because I think it's a ridiculous place to start and in 1985 the Arab League recognized Palestine and I think we should too. For me, thank you for saying yes, and so, for me, I think we have to start from humanization, as Jonah was saying before, we cannot dehumanize each other, otherwise, we have no chance, absolutely no chance, totally . I think that in my environment, they. They accept the existence obviously of uh uh pale Palestine and they accept exactly what you just said right now, they do and in fact, maybe 99% of the people I know well, the question is what do the majority of those who tell you surround.

Jewish because everything we see now everything we feel by the way we feel what you feel by the way and I'm not going to take it away from you right whatever you feel now I swear I want to hug you I am I'm not going to take it away from you, but what we feel is that the Palestinians want to make sure that the Jewish people have no right to live in Israel and that they need to die. We cannot speak for everyone, just as you cannot speak for everyone. of your people, I'm telling you as a Palestinian, not because my grandmother is Jewish, we are not against the Jews, we don't want to get rid of the Jewish people and I love hearing that and I swear to God, I think I think I'm 100% for agreement.

I would listen to it if I listened to it if I listened to it. We don't want Jews to be killed because they are Jews. I swear everything is open to conversation because all I want is to just make sure that if you sit in front of me you won't want to kill me oh, I'm ready for anything brother, I'm ready for anything, we don't want Jews to die at all, no I think there is only one Muslim. who truly believes in Islam who can in his right mind justify in any way theologically rationally logically that a Jewish person has no right to live zero there is a difference between opposing the Zionist regime and Zionist government political policies and being against an individual who subscribes that it has nothing to do with that part of the world that has a religion of Judaism we are brothers we are cousins ​​Abraham had two sons is right and we descend from them so not only are we cousins ​​we are half brothers, we have a problem with the ideology whose entire basis is to establish a state strictly for the Jewish people, which makes it by definition an apartheid state on another people's land, so Israel is not recognized as a country, this is one of my questions, actually , the way it is currently defined at all, I do not recognize you as a human being, I recognize it absolutely, so everyone should, this is how I said, the way the state is currently formed, the LED ideologies that led to its formation . land without a people for a people without a land the whole pretext for the formation of the state with which we do not agree, but can we find a way, find a different way of ex, find a different way of existing, but not with the idea that it is a Jewish majority?

State of Palestine Sorry, it was never intended to be a majority Jewish state, intended to wait, listen 45 45% majority 45% of Herzel's original proposed Zionist state was 45% intended to be Muslim Arab, okay and there it went being a fractional percentage of the 1% Jewish in the Palestinian state is fine, so we were willing to accept that up to 45% of our country is Arab be disappointed with what is happening right now but wait a second the original premise the original premise of the Zionism is not about being something to eradicate, if anything, it says that we want to go in there with diplomacy so that we can achieve that the state diplomatically can not do it through the colonizers, that is literally what your letter says and I think it is really important to understand that.

For us, Zionism is not a bad thing and people have co-opted our term and use it as an insult against us, when for us it is something sacred, it means our right to self-determination in the land of Israel, just as you want the right . to the self-determination of the Palestinians in Palestine we also feel the same about Israel, we and most people think that Zionism is a form, you think it is like that, but what I want to clarify is okay, so here I am going to talk. We'll meet you halfway when you said it and you want all Jews to offer you whatever you want, okay, no, okay, Zionism for us and other people as we know it, since that's what you think It is what is good, half of what is real. manifested way yes, I love you, I know it, but here we are going to meet halfway.

I want you to know that at no time have we ever been any person who is speaking for Palestine or is Palestinian or whatever the case may be. there are radical people on each side yes there are but we want to live in peace we want to live as neighbors we want to love each other it does not mean that the Jews are not alive it does not mean eradicating the entire Jewish people that is not what anyone who speaks in a good aspect for our movement, that's not what we mean and, again, there are some radical people on both sides.

I'm sure we can't control everyone, but for the most part and for the majority we can't. we don't want to get rid of the Jewish people no human being that has a heart should want to get rid of any person both sides have lost the war hello again hello I want to go um well I don't know exactly about both sides but I can tell you about my side uh I feel that we lost the war the day the Kamas came to our people in the massacre of 1400 of our people and raped our women and beheaded our babies and all that and I was there that day.

I was at the beach and we were having a party with friends of mine from college and we were apart all night until 6:00 a.m. m. and then at 6:30 the rocket started followed by boats that came from the sea and went up to the shore and killed in front of me, I follow my friends, they killed 40 people, including couples, 17 year old children, they killed fishermen, parents and children, they come to the sea every day for the F for the last 40 years and they massacred them all and they massacred my friend, my dear friend MO and I don't know how many of you saw that we talked about the media, the news and everything that, so when everything happened on October 7, the Kamas actually posted everything on Telegram and I saw it all. all the holes and I can talk, talk to you about every video and how they beheaded people and how they raped our women and burned babies in ovens for me, no matter what happens next, we lost this war, we lost our brothers, we lost . our friends, no military act or anything can bring them back, actually the main reason I think we lost along with that is our hostages, 241 people, some of them were released at this time, women and children, but there are at least 170 people.

They are still captives in Gaza, no one talks about it, people tear down those signs every day, so when we get to that, when we see the world and know that no one cares, for me we lost, yes, I think when the ask. For me, I was thinking about winning and losing because there will never be a victory, so even if we find the peace that we all want and freedom, I find it hard to call it a victory if we have like you. I mentioned that so many innocent people have died, children, women, etc., that's the main reason I came here.

You can't classify anything else about a loss, even if the results are better and things get better, we've all lost, it's a tragedy and there are so many innocents. people died in the last 6 to 8 weeks you know 2 million in GDA have been displaced from their homes 18,000 have died um 8,000 of them have been children around 4,000 women this is from the euromed health monitor um and in general these are these um These figures that come from GZA end up being verified by the UN so it's sad and also like you mentioned the innocent civilians and children that were taken hostage on October 7th and none of that is okay so yeah it's a loss, do you think it is? appropriate to party until 6:00 in the morning a few kilometers from an open-air prison where people have no water except clean water is not available for 95% of the inhabitants electricity is only available 11 hours a day bombings They've been happening every 3-5 years non-stop.

Do you think it's appropriate for you to be partying a couple miles away from such a situation? Yes, because I think it's fair. Yes, of course, it's because it's not our fault. It's not your fault. Know? How much do you control the water supply? I don't. Israel controls the water supply. Don't pin. They do not cut off water, electricity and fuel. So who controls it if they cut it? Who controls it? No, no, no, I'm going. I'll let you talk I'll let you talk if Israel cuts off the water fuel and electricity Gaza who controls the water the fuel electricity you took all the money and who controls them I answer my question Can I answer the The question then how did you cut it off Israel?

Israel is not even taking a step. Cut water. P. controls. P. controls the water situation in Gaza. Alright. P for the Palestinian Water Authority. Okay, they control the water situation in Gaza. Loop. How did Israel do it? Israel has a pipeline that goes into Gaza is a very small pipeline that could provide about 10% of Gaza's water. The water problem in Gaza actually started long before even 2005. They have several Aqua Fores on their shores, one of their main being Aqua Force, which is not enough. To sustain the population growth that has occurred, they also have many other problems with pollution, why due to their pollution do we not leave them a sewer network in perfect condition in 05 a large sewer network, but it was for the size of the population that was there at that time. the population has grown significantly where those pollution plants, the wastewater treatment plants can't process the amount of water coming in, so what happens?

The overflow goes to the ocean, which further degrades the water coming in from the water because inIt's actually a situation there are several organizations in Israel that are working on this problem right now, however, the long term solutions for water have to come from diplomatic means because we need to be able to get the supplies and those supplies that are large enough like to be able to hold Gaza's water to be able to build and scale to what it really needs at this moment violate the dual use policy of the things that come because they are used for rockets, another hug of water is being used for rockets, the PIP the pipes are used for rockets, which is a really big problem because it means it violates J's policy, which means you can't bring in things that are big enough to be able to create those Terror items.

This is a very serious situation. I think Gins deserves drinking water and it is a very big problem because the internal structure of the water is not managed. We have a very small pipeline that goes to Israel and that is the water that is controlled, that is, the water that is drunk. all the money because of all the terror that has arisen from Gaza has created these blockades over the years the blockades have become increasingly stronger because of the terror that has arisen collective punishment you are saying the party I listen to the party I believe which is a collective punishment by Hamas the party that takes place at 600 a. m. on the beach right next door and that also happens next to a place that sends thousands of rockets to Israel every day, so is it right to be able to send thousands of rockets to Isel every day no, no, we withdraw from Gaza, the water system in Gaza was installed for the current population, there are very big problems with that, okay.Regardless, but I think more people need to do real research on the water situation before talking about shutting down or shutting down Israel .

We close 10% of the water. There was already a water crisis in Gaza. War. Now the war has completely extinguished that crisis. And not only that, but water in Gaza is highly privatized, so people with money have access to water there. It's very sad, so poor people have even worse luck and are charged more for water. It's a huge problem. And it's something that there are a lot of organizations that are really working to try to solve, but again we need diplomatic solutions to this and that means we need a government that we can have diplomatic relations with that is not Hamas, which is Israel's target.

In this war it is to ensure that the Jewish State will remain alive as long as the Jewish States remain alive. Israel is always winning because the other side wants to eliminate the Jewish State, that's their goal, that's Kamas' goal, I'm not saying. It's your goal. I am saying that is the goal of Kamas: to eliminate Israel and the Jewish State, as long as they do not eliminate and kill or annihilate the Jewish State. I think the Jewish state always wins and the goal of uh uh. the Jewish state right now is to erase Hamas, not the Palestinian people, just Hamas and once they have achieved that, they have not yet done so, they killed more people disproportionately.

Do you know the ratio of how many Hamas to each civilian? It's the same argument. said the goal is H. you will get a different answer. I will tell you that the goal is to eliminate Hamas. They said hundreds, maybe 100 or more Hamas members were killed. What did you say? How many thousands? How many thousands of friends did we have over 18,000? No. we have killed dead people the ratio is 1 to 100 1 to 100 this is the most capable army in the world you can't be more precise your ratio can't be better than what they hide in the hospital so go to the field so go to the ground, fight, why should I kill our innocent civilians?

They are attacking us and hiding behind their people. Civilians attack them. Don't hide. By the way, a lot of civilians from Gaza came in on October 7 because there was In the payment, you received $10,000 plus an apartment, actually a lot of Goen citizens came in, you saw them on a plane closing, crossing the border and coming in and kidnapping people, it's that's why you can't find some of the hostages, guys, H H 1500 people, who I've never heard of more in my life, except for the last month and a half. I mean, I'm going to be that's what, well, we give you data and then you say no, that didn't happen. 5,000 people invaded.

Israel, 1500 of them were while the rest were civilians from my perspective, the reason I didn't come forward is because I feel that the Palestinians again, from my perspective, have lost the most in recent events based on the numbers and in the last 75 years the fact that also Israel is one of the strongest armies in the world funded by the United States to the tune of billions of dollars every year of our taxpayers' money, please, okay, the The amount of money that Palestine receives versus what Israel receives is not the same amount. You can look it up in US taxes.

You can see how much goes to each one. It is not the same with black money. Israel probably also receives black money. It's not like it's not like you know what we're not talking about, that's what I'm trying to say. why didn't I take a step forward okay you can't say that it is the same on both sides you can't say that we have suffered the same thing since October 7 okay because the numbers are there I recognize that you have lost friends I want you to recognize that we have lost a lot of people at a higher percentage, a higher proportion and whether or not you think it's collateral damage, I think it is and I don't think it's fair for us to say that our suffering has been the same since October 7th.

It's huge and it's great for both of us, but when you look at the numbers it's disproportionate and that's why I don't think either side lost the war. I think Israel has the advantage right now because it has the military it has. the tanks have the weapons the people in Gaza literally the civilians have nothing to defend themselves with their buildings are falling on them it's their fault they had so many years in 2006 you know what I would like for once when I say something about suffering Palestinian who is not blamed solely on Hamas because it is the fault that it is possible to be pro-Israeli and pro-Palestine.

I am in favor of the two-state solution, so that is the reason I came here. I don't think a State is reasonable. I think two states is much easier to achieve, it has been something that our former leaders Yasser Arafat Rabin, etc., have worked on a lot in the two states. I just don't see a one-state solution being viable, it's not necessary. be pro countries, but I am pro, they both have their own independent land, I couldn't agree with you. Vibes. Actually, I think in a different way. I have a problem with the entire state policy, the entire system.

I'm a I'm a systems rebel, you know, and it doesn't matter what system it is, so, for me, yeah, you can like both sides, you can, you can be Pro, uh, both sides, I think we can, uh. uh there's a way, I don't know if it's in this world right now, we can be friends and we can welcome each other without talking about a whole state thing, you know, so I think friendship doesn't come from a state. thing of a system I believe that friendship and peace come from simply wanting to be friends with another person.

I recognize you as a human being and you deserve to live wherever you want and I agree with that, I have no problem with you. Living next to me you know that it doesn't matter where you come from when I think about pro-Palestinians, it's like I split into two sections if you're talking about the death of innocent people if it's children, women, men, whatever it is, so I agree with you and I really told you before, I really am in favor of the innocent people who are dying, but there is the other part of the issue that is pro-Palestine and that it is pro-Hamas or not to condemn Hamas and with that part I can be OK.

Never, yeah, I guess I mean some people feel the same way about Netanyahu's evil right-wing government, you know, I feel like you should be able to condemn both, um, condemn what the government, well, first of all, Netanyahu has publicly said that its um, its. The position is that recently there was um, I think it was Harit, he openly said: I will make sure as long as I am in power. I will make sure there is no Palestinian state if we are talking about Natan. I think we all have agreements. or disagreements I have BR no, I come from a very, very, very right-wing family, right, we never had those words in my house.

I believe you and me. I never had I never had a person that you compare with, you can't, you can't compare. The government from Nan to Hamas, who are terrorists, think that in the world you cannot, you cannot do that, I'm sorry, Hamas are terrorists who kill, rape and behead children and it is nothing like Nan or the government Israeli and if you are comparing the Israeli government or the state of Israel with Hamas, then, my friend, you have a serious problem. I do it and I think a lot of people do a lot of things because they both do things like kill civilians for political gain. you could say these are brown and they are D, they come like crazy and you could say this one is just dropping bombs from the sky, the end result is the same, you are killing.

I'm talking about ham, I'm talking about monsters, how? How can you compare not to humans? How can you compare monsters and animals? Yeah, well, that's with people. Oh, then, why comp. Let me be clear. These are animals. These are not. No, Hamas are animals. I'm not talking about the Palestinians. Speaking of Hamas, okay, why did they do it on October 7? They are animals, they are monsters, animals, you know, animals kill to feed their children, animals killed to feed and survive, they did it for fun, so for me, their month, theity, there is nothing to negotiate about the brutality. the brutality is more on the Luddite side, so I think being pro-Israel and being a Zionist is inherently being quite pro-Palestinian.

I believe that I have the right to self-determination as a Jew in my homeland and therefore I believe that Palestinians also have the same right and I believe that the most pro-Israel thing you can do is want to live in peace. It is one of the biggest living tenants in Israel. Jews are hated all over the world just for being Jews and there is literally a place in the world where you just walk in and for one second they don't hate you and for one second you are a random Danish person who never had to grow up with a group of people who hate them because of their status as a people for some reason that's just uh uh something that people can't really recognize and don't seem to be able to validate or accept, but I personally think that the biggest part of being a Zionist is wanting to live in peace. , get there peacefully, try to negotiate, try to enter with diplomacy, that is the foundation of Zionism and for me, that is the most important thing for Israel that you can do and that is what I see when I am in Israel and that is what I see all the Jews around me 24/7 I'm so pro Palestine I'm so pro Israel and I'm really an idiot.

The overwhelming majority of the Jewish people just want to be able to have a Homeland where they can live in peace with their neighbors and that's it, no one. I would like to see a free Palestine more than a Jewish people because it would mean that they would no longer be fighting. I dream of that scenario where there are Israelis living in peace and Palestinians living in peace and everyone is going about their business and we are sharing the sandbox and getting along very well the way I see it, the way the Palestinians They are under occupation right now, they are under occupation by Israel, so I don't see myself being pro-Israel in the way that it is now with the government.

That's just how it is and I personally am a one-state person. I hope everyone here knows this, but before 1948, Jews, Christians and Muslims lived together on earth, not peacefully and peacefully. I peacefully do not look at Jerusalem. Yes, first, can you stop interrupting? When I speak, you have to speak. Thousands of Jews died in 1913. Look at Jerusalem. That's why, for me, that's why I say that if someone right now comes to me and tells me that I'm pro-Israel and pro-Palestine, that means I feel like it's just a very neutral stance, not wanting to take any sides.

For me, as long as the Palestinians are under occupation and do not have freedom of movement, the Israel that exists now is not one that I can personally support. Saying this about people, I'm not saying I want to get rid of Jews or Israelis. Look, all of us here are younger than the State of Israel. We didn't create this, so I don't think we can point fingers. each other and not see that we don't have as much at stake as the leaders and those before them did when they created this problem, when Palestinians have their basic human rights and are treated equally under the law, we can call the state whatever we want .

I want to call him and at that point I would be happy to call all my friends and neighbors and there would be no problem. It seems like everyone here has the same idea for the future and I think that's what we should be. Focusing on the reason why I didn't step forward, it's quite similar because when I hear the word Israel I don't think of the tribes of Israel, I think the state of Israel and the state of Israel, the foundation on which it is built is a racist ideology. Now, did it always start like this?

I don't believe it. I think there was some racism there, but I agree from reading Hadam's works um, you know, evenHerzel um, there was a certain desire to do our thing and let them do their thing. I am pro-Palestine and pro-Jewish people and pro-eventual states that we can call Jerusalem, you know where? But its origin comes from blocks of land and communities that were intentionally purchased on a continuous plot so that it can exclude anyone besides the Jewish people and I don't even want to say the Jewish people, the Zist people, so until we get rid of these ideologies that sought to create division, then we cannot be for two things that are diametrically opposed, we can be Pro Jerusalem before 1914, which was a beautiful, bustling and vibrant city with the streets full of vendors making delicious streets, you smell the aroma of fresh bread while you walk, there were Muslims, Christians, Jews coexisting in Perfect Harmony.

Perfect Harmony, it was after a mass. The migration began to happen the first elah the second elah the third That was when the tensions arose we were living together no problem my friend you and I a thousand years ago we would have been brothers but there was an ideology that wanted an exclusionary xenophobe a colonial ideology of Europe, which was imported to our land and with which we cannot coexist, does not consider us as people with whom it can coexist, it is exclusive by nature, it is not that it is not a pro-Israel people or a pro-Jewish people.

People, it goes against the ideology of how the State of Israel was created and the racism behind it. Do you understand that saying that you are a pro-Jewish people, but you are against the idea of ​​them having self-determination over themselves in one piece? of their Homeland to a Jew that sounds very anti-Jewish that's not what I heard her say I heard her say that she is against the way Israel came to be, she didn't say that she is against Jews having their own Homeland, that is what those three people agree I never said that right to self-determination I said if it depends on the fact of excluding the other side if you want to have a state hey, let's have a Jewish State that is welcome to all perfect no, it is not, no, not that that's what they thought that's not what they bought the land that's why they bought the land inous that's why they bought the land second class citizenship that's why they bought the land in adjoining plots that's why they only employed Jewish commanders in the army they said They wanted to till the land with their own hands to earn money.

I would really like to answer this question. Well then, imperialism, right? Imperialism is the idea of ​​coming in and imposing your religion, your language and everything on a group of people, right? what came from Europe Israel did not want to make Zionism begin to be the anti-imperialism in which we wanted to enter and we wanted to diplomatically find a solution to be able to live there and the diplomatic solution was not an ethnic group of Jews, the offer was a majority Jewish state , but it was 45% Arab and not to mention that, by the way, but we are forgetting a lot of other people who have ancestral ties to the land of the dream, the BNS, I mean.

They are not only Jews, Muslims, Arabs and Christians, but they are all welcome in Israel and in Israel the Israeli Arabs who live there are 100% second class citizens, they are not allowed the same education, they are not allowed not to have been over there. My friend, you want the statistics, how do you know, my friend, we live there? I live in the north. I live next to Arabs only Arabs only Arabs who run a hospital there is no way they don't get the same gr they don't get the same government grants teachers aren't allowed teachers aren't allowed to have their own curriculum they don't even have to serve in the IDF they examine when there is a lot of talk about the IDF a lot of the thousand a lot of the qualifications to qualify for government support when I am Ser B in the service in the SP years, which excludes that Arabs be in the military, that's fine and then when I'm done I want to go to college so I need to have X my SAT score. say it's okay X, then Arabs in Israel who claim to be discriminated against need to get half of doctors, affirmative action.

Affirmative action is given to people who tell this minority and that they are an oppressed minority, not an oppressed minority, most doctors in Israel and nurses are people, most doctors, two things can be true at the same time, because that's true, two things can be true at the same time that could be true it can also be true to qualify for certain discrimination because you're not from there you don't know it I and also an underlying systematic discrimination is not I protested against Muslim Christians I was There are multiple protests exactly Jews Ethiopian Jews How are they treated?

We have done a lot. We have made a lot of difference. Social racism exists in all countries and Israel is certainly no exception and is a kind of systematicity like them. They can't live there and they're not allowed or whatever the proposal was here, yes, there is definitely discrimination and racism in Israel, as there is in the United States, as there is in all the other places, but it is something very different than that we live. We're talking about no, it's the same thing because I just want to mention the fact that you're saying that Israeli Arabs are being treated fairly, maybe some, let's say five out of 10, right, no, all of them, that's not true. , but it's legal.

Speaking, everyone has the same thing. The Supreme Court judge put Isra. There will someday be a Palestinian president of Israel. Difference president of Palestine. There will someday be an Arab. Could there ever honestly be whether Arabs and Israel are equal? Do you really believe? Tell me genuinely from the bottom of his heart, an Israeli Arab who has the Palestinian interests in mind, the people, the interest of his people in mind, can he ever be president of Israel, you know, the last government, there is a party who was in the Coalition was in the government that lasted something like that.

When asking if America would ever have a black president, I empathize with the people on the other side. I will say that I learned a lot from this

roundtable

and I want to say, although I have a lot of Jewish friends, I haven't met many people who were also Israeli. that he had lived there, that he served and you know better than to say that he didn't have empathy. I've always been empathetic, you know, as an activist, as someone who is a public figure in Washington DC. I constantly get hateful DMS from people saying things like Do you like condemning the murder of innocent Israelis?

And it seems to me that the fact that someone asks me means that they see me as someone just because I am Palestinian, as someone who doesn't have a heart that doesn't care. innocent lives and this is something that happens to me constantly and it is exhausting to always have to defend not only myself as a Palestinian but the fact that obviously I don't want anyone to die and I don't want anyone to be hurt and I don't think anyone should be killed for who he is, whether it be his religion or his country of origin.

We were all born into this. You know you were born somewhere. I was born in the other. We have our own lived experiences. I know some of us have lived there, many of us have visited there and on both sides I think we can recognize that at the end and at the very basis of this whole day and this conversation is that we are really just human beings. that care about our identities, we're very passionate about it, you know we're, you know we're willing to fight for who we are and that's our middle ground, like we agreed or didn't agree on a lot of things, which we definitely did.

No, I think the fact that we have so much passion just shows how much we care and how much we can relate to each other and resonate with what each other is going through. I empathize with the other side, because like her I said I'm a human being and I love humans I love being a human being I love the interaction with human beings um and at the end of the day like when you said people message you and tell you oh well, what about uh? You are Israelis who die and you say they paint you as this person who is an evil person because we are Palestinians we are Palestinians that does not mean we are terrorists I'm tired of being called a terrorist I'm tired of being called a Hamas lover.

We are humanitarians. Are there good and bad on both sides? Yes, but immediately the focus of attention is directed directly at us. Well, you are Palestinian, so you must be a terrorist and not empathize with the other yes. You are human, you empathize with any law of life around the world, no matter what you are, that's what's so interesting again in much of what you said, it's like the exact same words came out of our mouths, so I understand that people behave well. because I'm on Israel's side P, I want all the Palestinians dead and I have no empathy for any poor children or anything like that, so I understand exactly what's going on on the other side and what this conversation has done for me is and what I was hoping to do is hear from you and what I was expecting, which is what it was, is that we have very similar experiences through totally different lenses and totally different specific details, but we are experiencing a lot of the same things and I think without empathy is over.

I mean, there's no point in anything if we're not going to try to reach out to each other as human beings and see each other as human beings that we're screwed with, to use your word. Yes, I would also love to answer the question a little bit. Jonah is very well expressed and also very good. I think in my experience throughout my life, I've always been in situations where I'm like the only Jew and so on. I often get a lot of ridiculous questions like Where are your horns? o I was raised to think that you were the cause of all my problems and I grew up in America.

I'm not even exaggerating and I had to like it, you know? I have been a representative of the Jewish people for so many years and I am very aware of the fact that many of us have never met a Jew or someone who has lived in Israel. 75% of the world has never met a Jew. I met a Jew and I'm not even surprised I've met a lot of them, you know what you mean and it's really dehumanizing when I'm so often confronted with legitimate stereotypes that I can't even believe people think they're real. and yet they do it and I think a similar experience probably happens on your guys' side, where you feel dehumanized to the point that people never listen to your stories or listen to you or even meet you as a Palestinian living in Palestine. to be able to understand that and I think that a lot of this conversation that we were talking about before is invaded by a group of random white people who have nothing to do with this at all and that there is so much dehumanization that comes from that experience of To all these people like to argue against you or for you and not even understand you at all and I think my biggest goal in coming here today was to just humanize us both.

Our experiences are very similar. Our food is literally the same. I know this is like we are just two sides of the same coin. 100% agreed that we are naturally equal to human beings. Empathy is the ability to feel what another human being feels good about, so of course I think we all have empathy by nature. unless we're psychopaths or sociopaths with the ones who have that wrong and some of those people are the ones running this show right, unfortunately, that's why it seems like there's no empathy, but I think every single one of you, from what I felt have empathy and I hope you feel that I have empathy too I hope you feel that I have deep pain I hope you feel that I have I am from a people that has been deeply oppressed I hope that you can definitely feel that and my ideal solution would be a place where everyone has empathy for each other and is free of those sociopaths who do not consider the other as the same as they are, so when I asked if Palestine has the right to defend itself, there should not be one.

Who and when? No, if a human being from Palestine does it, do I have the right to defend myself? Yes, then we can start here and move towards a solution. I think you let certain people off too easily. I think there are people who are not sociopaths and don't take advantage of that empathy because I think it takes intention to be empathetic and I think sometimes we take it for granted that we say oh, I'm a human being, I'm going to be empathetic, but and it's not. It's enough to just intellectually recognize something, it's like you said it, how you define it, you need to feel it or it won't come to you and I think a lot of people, probably most people, don't take the time to actually internalize that and feel like they're going, yeah, no, no, I get it, I feel like I feel really bad for them and then we move on because I checked the empathy box, you have to do it, but you have to feel it and not everyone does that and you really have to take the time. to take that step yeah that was fantastic Jonah I went left yeah I guess Salam day are you a hugger, hug, hug, hello, thank you for a pleasure meeting you and keeping you.

I will try the app, yes, then it's okay. I know, I know you, you're in a lot of pain, yes, I do.sorry for not. If you were born Jewish, you would have come first. It all happened on October 7th. It's going to be very sad. The devastation is. It will be felt everywhere, I'm so sorry.