Ian Hislop & Jolyon Rubinstein - Post-truth & Satire: Sheffield Doc/Fest 2017

Hello Sheffield, It is with great pleasure that I welcome Diane from British

satire

Ian Hislop to the Sheffield Documentary Festival for the first time. Oh my god, oh my god, you should think about applying. First I apologized for not using my label. I arrived at the station. I thought OMG Sheffield was being taken over by the orange friend or BUP over here mate, so what's the naughtiest thing you've ever done? I called an early election, yeah, it didn't go as planned, not really, no, so I. m, let's go back to the beginning and when I wasn't there, I know well that we are not going to talk soon about the trip of LSD on the scale just to be clear that alien has never done it in the state we were creating a satirical magazine called passing wind University of Oxford if it was a subtle title it was very bad when it came to selling advertising hahahahaha walking around saying that you want to take out an advertisement we have a lot of class what are the types of your student publication is the wind of farewell, no, thank you and you started collaborating with Newman, yeah, we have quite diverse backgrounds.

Nick and I were at school together, a minor public school on the south coast, which I think covers all the bases, absolute spirit. Very much, all the military politicians listen, thank you, but you and when you were doing that you had an interview with Richard Ingram, who at the time was the editor of Private Eye. Yes, my plan when he was editor of the student magazine was to interview everyone. my heroes and then asked them for a job, it's not the main role of publishing but I thought it would work for me and I interviewed Peter Cook which was incredibly exciting, he owned Private Eye, he was the main contributor and then Richard Ingram at first when I walked in, someone asked to see my bag and I didn't know who it was, which is very nice.

I was about to say do you know who I am? but then I remember I went to a club in Soho with Peter Cook and there was a man in front of us clean and he said do you know who I am? and Peter grabbed the tannoy and said there's a man here who doesn't know who he is, if anyone has him. I don't know if anyone has any ideas. He's quite short, quite fat, so that was my owner, who was an extraordinary man, yes, let's talk about that, what was the relationship like? I mean, that's kind of surprising for someone like that, you know, a stalwart of my satirist who back in the day has owned a magazine like What was your relationship with him like as owner and editor?

How did that work? Peter was the ideal owner because he owned the magazine but he had no say in how it was run. His only function was to provide money and then appear. in court cases and would take them to lunch and Peter's idea of ​​lunch never involved food, so if he showed up in a case one time and Robert Maxwell, who some of you may remember, used to own the mirror and Peter showed up and we were being I sued and it was pretty serious and Peter's idea of ​​helping the court case was standard, backhand waving his checkbook at Maxwell, unbelievable, so is it true that the first article you wrote that appeared in 1980 was a parody from the Observer magazine room of my own where it described an IRA prisoner at a dirty protest decorating his cell in an attractive brown yes that was the first but it's always worth a try the important thing is I mean what is in bad taste nowadays in your mind, well, again, I thought that. it was a very liberal newspaper and it was in the middle of all that and it was the idea that you would have an article where usually someone had brought a room of their own to an interior designer and you would just have a photo of someone doing the walls in some sort of way. beautiful high pitch and yes, it had that kind of reaction at the time, people were never sure, but I think Ingram decided there was something old in me and maybe he would try to put more of my stuff on.

It's amazing, although I mean you became editor of Private 26. I did and a lot of middle-aged men were very, very angry and if I were there now, I'd be one of them. I would get incredibly angry and think what the hell I was doing. it must have been crazy John Lloyd once told me that as a young man, he's going to agree, no, obviously, I think he's very much someone who, you know, is over 50, it's the perfect maturity. . I think you have to be something like that. I think you have to have a slightly youthful sense of humour, possibly a mental age of eight helps, no, I think young people are very good at it and there are a lot of really bright young people doing

satire

at the moment, you know which one?

It's annoying, obviously, but I mean, I don't think it's something you lose, Satar, isn't it more of a mental attitude? You basically see the world in a particular way and most states will say they tell you what the official version of events is. is and you say: I'm not sure that's true. I mean, it doesn't mean much more than that, but it's very useful and there are times when socially I think it's very, very useful. So can we mention the image to which the title of Brexit, what is happening there then I think it was an outbreak of the little English ISM about Gibraltar of all the things that could worry us with Brexit and suddenly Gibraltar had not been included on paper largely because I'm talking about the current administration, which is no longer the current one, didn't seem to have much of an eye for detail, you may have noticed that things kept showing up in the mani

fest

os or didn't show up, you know, point one of the conservative mani

fest

o, pensioners, let's take their money away again as conservative policies go. it's not very effective unless you do it after the election, yeah when you haven't told people what traditional conservative politics is they don't seem to be very good at politics and that was Boris.

I mean the idea of ​​him coming back is just How extraordinary, oh don't worry he'll be with Michael Gove. I'm totally fine. I think Michael Gove has been appointed as a kind of firewall. Does anyone hate Boris more than me? stable, strong and stable, yes, and you sort of denounced the ferocity with which some people have tried to defend the results of Brexit. Yes, let's talk about it. I just felt that the discourse had become toxic and that seemed to me to be one of the failings of That Period of Politics is to essentially say, well, anyone who voted Leave is a bigoted racist and anyone who voted Remain is a public school idiot. metropolitan elite of the late 50s, which is partly true, well, I felt the characterization of the two. campus, it was incredibly pointless and just the level of fury and part of my problem was that I am blatantly a Ramona.

I don't pretend to be anything else. There were several people on the furlough side for whom this was their first engagement. with politics and it was very difficult for them to realize that in politics other people don't always agree with you, so saying it again louder doesn't make it true and you don't win the argument by saying Hitler Ken Livingstone takes notes, yeah , and this, I mean, I think it became a real problem, but I mean, I'm a satirist, it was incredibly funny because the private detective found himself under attack from all sides for not adhering one hundred percent to the point of view of others. point of view and he came to the fore with tourism saying that she had a problem in the sense that Westminster was divided, if it is the houses of parliament that should be divided, there is the government and then the opposition parties and that is the point of and she seemed to have forgotten and then said that Westminster was divided the country was united which is a unique and incredible insight so didn't a vicar write to her?

The vicars always write to me particularly to bemoan the possible coverage, oh yes. I mean he was a very nice speaker. He wrote me a letter saying, "You know the victims of the referendum result, don't you understand? Hang in there, he said the majority get over it, so I wrote him a letter saying, 'Dear Reverend, Charming.' Receive your letter. I think that members of a church who started with a minority of 12 people should be careful about defending majority votes entirely, especially when this minority vote was reduced to one and on Good Friday occasionally my church background helps me anyway. wrote a very contrite letter but people were absolutely furious and I tried and pointed out that the level of this was crazy, I mean it was privatized, particularly susceptible to readers suddenly finding their point of view being challenged. and they are very interested in other people's views because they are wrong, but it is, first we had the Scots announce who again, a topic, people who are quite new to the idea of ​​debate, they didn't like it very much. , you herrings who meet late in life, had come to the idea. that Brussels rules everything is fine, yes, not quite, then the Korbinites are a sick waste of politics there, how dare you question Jeremy well?

That is the point that is allowed, so they were furious, then the Liberal Democrats and now the Conservatives, they are really angry. They are and there was a moment on the street and I said, "I've seen a lot of your covers, which are quite disgusting, but when there were floods in Somerset, I mean, you know, people lost their homes and I said, sure, we quit, but war, death, famine and terrorism but no flooding in the home counties it is assumed right here please yes yes we must move forward with limited time and you said after Trump was elected you are not sure feeling relieved by the feeling of deja vu or worried about the possibility of history repeating itself not as a farce but as a tragedy again What did you mean?

Well, I think that comment came from a joke. Donald Trump and Mussolini we have that cover please okay Trump cover still from mr Leedy I mean I don't think he can be Italian I know that was another perfect perfect perfect cover Now I have. noted that when Mussolini writes about everything, he noted that he never tells the

truth

that he says. the RPF attacks the mainstream media, they are incapable and coherent and everyone thought it was a joke, you know, he was known as the clown before he took power and started killing people, so I said it's not We've never been here before, but trying to learn lessons from history is: let's be careful, let's not be too pessimistic, but let's not assume that what's funny doesn't turn into something worse, hmm, so that was the point I was trying to make. clarify. more obvious, I don't know, it's brilliant, okay, I'm not sure I understood it, but I want to say again that the coverage is a small pleasure, but it was reproduced and circulated widely in the United States and your press spokesperson said he thought it was Offensive, so it was a small victory and I don't know, he might have thought it was a proper newspaper.

I mean, he probably thought about it. We were banned from the United States by a wild private detective. One of the University departments took us as fake news. and we haven't had to mention this academic and say that some of these things that you have accused of dissolving are a joke, well, they played, they felt the thing in the onion and yes, Lea has the Denver, well, they had a photo that We had the Queen signing a book in which we had said she was signing the anti-Trump protest and they said, well, you know, the Queen didn't sign that protest, this is fake news, so the private detectives are doing quite well. , read.

This since its launch fifty-five years ago has had the highest circulation figures yes, which is extraordinary and I am very happy max. I love print and I think print can do things that other mediums can't do. He's fantastic with cartoons. He's great with serendipity. of finding one piece and then finding another piece and then reading both and putting them together and we continually survived. I am private. I do two things, we essentially make jokes about things you know and we try to tell you things you don't know. I don't know jokes and journalism, it's a very, very simple format.

The late great Paul Foot, who is my great friend and the great journalist, said that essentially people read the private detectives' jokes and then, in the bathroom, they read my articles, which in turn were typically self-deprecating. I think that's what we do in the mix, particularly now in an era where people aren't quite sure what to believe to find somewhere. I mean, the idea of ​​privatizing a magazine of record is kind of hysterical, but there is a desire for unfiltered news. and for quite detailed stories about things that would normally be considered boring, but I think this election has shown that the fact that we publish, you know two thousand words about the health service, every topic is not boring, it is quite interesting and that of the big issues I, I mean, what's the real change since I took over, is it money, is it what's interesting, is sex less particularly in terms of politics or in terms of people's lives at all and Vadym again makes interesting quite complex financial stories, I mean.

This is what documentary filmmakers face.all the time it's this is a topic that's not sexy there's no pictures so we have a picture of a pound note again this is a limited partnership how do we illustrate that sexy limited partnership but I mean really it's all in the skill of the trade, really in writing it down and figuring it out by making the research sing and then as soon as it's there, I can make jokes about it. I mean, you know it's me hitting. You know, the Wahhabi Salafist ISM has been a special topic for a few years, but the Saudi contribution to the spread of a particular form of Islam is really interesting.

And B in the way they behave incredibly funny, they have essentially thrown a huge amount of toxic waste to the rest of the world and we have been told no, it is fine here as long as we can continue to sell them airplanes, whether it is not a problem, no or in fact, anything else, so I think that times I see more and more clearly what Private Eye seems to offer is getting ahead of the news, whether it's the costly scandal or the corporate tax evasion. Yes, you were years ahead of it becoming a story, why do you think that is?

It's because you employ a lot more investigative journalists because other newspapers don't. No other newspaper is much richer than us. I think you don't mind if they sue you, they are much more cautious. now people don't like investigative journalism, I mean, in general, it takes too much time for employers, sometimes nothing happens, someone says I have a great story and then two months later it happens that it didn't work out, so you have nothing and you have no copy and you've spent a lot of money if the story works it's really good that someone is Sue and then you lose money to the lawyers.

I mean, it's essentially not what the owners who were going to make money do, so you need essentially liberal newspapers that are covered by profits elsewhere or the desire to do so and one of the things I can always do in private is repeat that people tell me you ran that tax story about thirty-five times when I said yes and finally you read and essentially the idea of ​​corporate tax evasion there was a very brilliant man named Richard Brooks who was a high ranking official in the Her Majesty's Customs Department. We lured him to the dark side.

Starting as a whistleblower and then becoming a fantastic journalist and unique in our profession, Richard understands balance, he is very good at details and from being an idea that obsessed him in his bedroom five years later, it went to occupy the first place on the g20 agenda, yes, and that is what can be achieved by saying: I think this is interesting, you know, I really think that these people should pay some tax and they don't and they don't pay a little, they don't pay anything, yes, and the amounts involved are absolutely enormous, it is and by hitting on it it goes on the public agenda and as soon as it's half over you can make jokes about absolutely, I mean, without private, I would have been reported in the other newspapers, without that, the revolution that we televised when we could talk about it.

The animals at Starbucks and Vodafone and Jeremy Corbyn were literally running on it as part of their platform, and I'm sure you're over the moon. They were like me. I was fascinated to see in the Labor Party manifesto that there was private credit. Be careful with some of the investigations and I want you to get to the unfortunate past that you have when that is your source of information that we have, we have relatively little time, so we are going to skip a lot about talking about the living image, but I must ask well, no, I have a choice, spit image and I have news for you, but a little less, yes, well, spit image, it will be like a split image, is it true that in spit image there was a puppet of you that used to appear on the back of the sketches, yes, incredible, and such is the loyalty among the satirists that after I left the program, he immediately appeared in the leading role.

Can we get the Thatcher clip boxes? Oh wow, so let's talk about Swift's image, how did you first get it? involved in the project, I've been working privately, I was with my friend Nick Newman for a while, I did a bit of television and I got a job for John Lloyd and Nick and I were almost the only writers interested in politics. so we understood that part too well and, I mean, again, we were in our twenties and early twenties, actually, you can see, I mean, draw completely about being in school, I mean, we had barely left and it was incredibly fun to write for, but also as a writer you realized that in the end the script was not so vital.

What was the pleasure of the puppets hitting each other? Yeah, and as the years went by, we started putting it at the end. of poverty business sketches in which the puppeteers would simply punch each other in the face and that would be that. I mean, the best sketch I ever wrote was Norman Tebbit, his idea to wipe out the unemployed and there was some kind of fantastic scene later, but his own arm in it and it was all in this blender it was an idea I stole from Swift, which is literally taken from his solution for the unemployed and the brilliance of it was his form and the fact that the puppets were people, but they weren't, so they could do anything, it wasn't like the actors did it. they did, when you might think they support a store, I'm not sure that would happen, you could just do anything and I mean, we left.

Nick and I went away on the night of the last election and did a good job, our final sketch was "Tomorrow belongs to me", sung by the whole cabinet, an angelic schoolboy in a bowler hat, which again I mean, it was live, I'm pretty sure I would. Don't go out there listener, I mean, you know, I mean, for my part, I certainly want him back, do you want him back? Come on, oh yeah, the spitting image coming back is going to be great, so let's talk about that little-known show. I have news for you? However, has anyone heard of that time, a small business, I just won a BAFTA recently, it's no big deal, so let's talk, it's true, you're the only person who has appeared in every episode, yes, you even filmed the seventh series despite suffering from appendicitis, yes, I had appendicitis and I went to George's in Tooting and they put me on a trolley in a hallway, you know, which is pretty standard, but now I follow the policy, yes, the policy of Stan, now I was lucky to get a cart, yeah, it was easily in an orange box, um.

So I was also there for about four hours and I thought that nothing would happen, no one was going to miss the recording, so I downloaded it. I went back to the study and sat there and no one noticed that I was about to complain about my aunt. Polly I laughed and did the show and suddenly it hit me and I ran back, got a cabin and went back to Tooting where I went into A&E this time and had an emergency operation. Good guys, minimal strange, fantastic and up. I have always done it. I said it's a sign of my dedication to the show and for months that's because you're so desperate that you'll be replaced by the time we get clip seven, probably three, so in a wonderful cartoon in this issue, my man called out Stokoe, who it's from a bin with Teresa face down outside Samba Ted and her husband just us, Philip Philip, who they didn't look at in that interview and say, do you represent a lot of taxable companies?

There are billions of dollars in profits now they let it hang themselves it's a lot of fun Josh Widdecombe and the last stages very good yeah so there are quite a few really good Saturns what else do you like? I mean, I'm a big John Oliver fan, yeah, I mean, again, I'm not that. Those American shows bother me because I think in America you need to get almost all your news and all your interviews, yeah, from those shows in Britain, you know, you think well, we have people who interview people, well, we have Documentary Filmmakers quite good, we have quite good news programmes, so I don't think I watch them from time to time, but I think their view of Britain is never the same.

I'm very provincial and that's what interests me, how Britain works, we're citizens, something is said once and someone says, so you guys, I mean, you're talking about buses, you think so, the local bus is Quite important to a lot of people in Britain, so yes, we are, yes, what they are discussing. I realize that there is a kind of provincialism that goes on both sides of the Atlantic, but it seems to me that there is a lack of new satirical formats that are coming out of the stations. I'm not sure, I actually keep seeing things that I think are really real. well, what do you like?

So, um, I liked what came out of the queue, I know that stuff, the news, yeah, I was very, very good, yeah, you know, I think it's quite, I think it's kind of a bit of a boring old guy. What you say, well, nothing good these days, yes, and I suppose one of the benefits of my education is that the first time I read an article that says that there is nothing good anymore and that actors are paid too much and not the teachers. Not making money was in Juvenal's works that he wrote in 100 AD. C., who qualifies exactly that and you have to be careful that everything goes to shit, is often not very good.

I mean, you know, we're sitting here today. at the Sheffield documentary festival, discussing it now, you said that once the sapphire brings ridicule, you will do or vice, madness and farce, all the negative aspects imply a set of positive aspects, certainly, in this country you don't go around saying that that's wrong, that's corrupt if you have some feeling that it should be better than that people say you're a satirist attacking everything good, actually we don't, that's the point yeah, I mean, I was great with Alexander Pope, yes, who was a great English satirist who again set a lot of the parameters of what is worth doing and essentially is finding targets aimed at the strong rather than the witan and raped the people who were in their world safe from the bar, the pulpit and the throne, but touched and ashamed only by ridicule.

I mean, this is a long time ago, but the principle stands and I think people say and people told me, "I'll do it, you're so cynical, we imply that I don't believe in anything, I'm not, I'm a skeptic, I "I like to look." things and say it's true and if it's true, that's fine, um and I also mean, why would you spend as much time as journalists, satirical documentary filmmakers did trying to point out things that are wrong if you didn't think it was worth the trouble? worth getting them? You just wouldn't write. What's in our hair abuse program?

Holmes, yeah, I mean, you don't write that because you think it doesn't really matter what happens in nursing homes. I don't care, I mean. You know, negative implies positive. What are the things that you think are the most pressing issues facing us right now in this election? So the things that you're achieving through Brexit in the least harmful way possible, but then I would say. that, but it seems almost impossible with the chamber so divided that something can be negotiated in a strong and stable way. Are we going to see other elections? And I think there will be in our elections.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure people are very excited about all the things, I mean, obviously, it's good for us, but while this is pretty fun, you know, Gophers have been re-elected as what you want over most of the other Game of Thrones videos for me. I am a big admirer of Teresa. I mean, that's not even an exaggeration and a lie, so the new movie you're making is about immigration. Yes Yes. Sorry, these are my only credentials for being here. I have made a documentary. Yes, I have made a couple. we have them on some that are not going to show both, allowing us to show clip ten with the wonderful Katie Hopkins Oh, Ian, so she's your fault.

I knew it, yeah, my favorite part of it. What's that four times today? My version of the

truth

. What do you think she? I mean, with my version of the truth, the terrible thing about making documentaries is that you have to listen to people. Look, did she see highways throughout that documentary? I much prefer when I talk, it seems to be much better television, but anyway the point of that is The documentary looks at the first big immigration scare in this country, the first time mass immigration burst into the national debate and I asked Katie Hopkins specifically because there was a scare about Chinese immigrants, the Yellow Peril, and many tabloid and popular newspapers.

The newspapers had just started and this was a huge story for them. The Chinese were going to come here in absolute hordes and they were going to turn all the women into white slaves. They were opium issues and they had criminal gangs and the newspapers loved it. There was a piece that was a particular exposition day of this and I asked her to read because it contained the phrase that the Chinese were a festering sore, which was exactly the phrase she had used to describe the X immigrants a hundred years later and I was trying to understand it.

She made him see that Yellow Peril's scare and some of what he hadso yes, I found it difficult, but actually, luckily I work for people who know what they are doing. What did you do to make a person not a man? That you, that she is, know Frankenstein's daughter and that you are a teacher. What are you doing so well? That was hurtful. I can imagine the idea of ​​a first time at Katie Hopkins. It's pretty terrible, um again. I mean, what I thought was interesting about that and was interesting about all the kind of historically exaggerated press coverage is that it all starts with the essence of the truth: there were no Chinese who came here, there were no Jews there.

There were a hundred thousand who came to the West End and occupied the West End in the East End and occupied a small proportion of land. The sweatshops employed cheaper people and worked longer hours. Baroness Vajji's parents worked double shifts and people didn't like Lee. since they wanted to work single shifts there is always something to start with that you can screw up and that is why these people are dangerous and for them to say "you made me up" by not talking openly about immigration by allowing any speech about immigration to only reach from the right was a mistake, so even again I hate to acknowledge the people who produce my shows, but even then you had to allow for the kernel of truth and and that's why that when she said it makes you think a little bit. a little bit yeah I'm saying a few more questions to this gentleman here and then we'll take another lady please okay it's that lady over there and then we'll come to you sir do you think it's changing the way What do we get our information from? away from the traditional, so away from the newspapers, if it had any impact on the elections and saw it benefit in the private eye, yes, I think we definitely are.

I mean, this wasn't a great election for traditional newspapers. I mean, the Sun didn't win. You know, the headline we put it in this time was The Sun, which had no effect, you know, he said it's something new. Murdock is reportedly absolutely outraged and has always backed a winner before and always called him out. I mean, you know, ma'am. . Mae won, but I had no idea and I think in a sense you know the The Daily Mail published nine pages and I think even its readers were saying oh, yes, Corbin is the new leader of Hamas, yes, there is a caliphate established in Sheffield and, now You know, he moved on to the part about you know health is important and if broccoli causes cancer.

You know, which is really the core part of the Daily Mail, which is that the press did not distinguish itself in this election and I think it showed a lack of reporting skills, to start and then follow, and that always follows. because of lack of influence because if you don't know what's going on, you start commenting that you don't know what's going on, so, like I said, basically most of the political commentators in this country didn't know anything and were way behind what that was really happening. I think I'm sorry, you mentioned his source. I think it's a problem because you need to have authority in the sources of information.

Social media, for all its virtues, can create extraordinary nonsense incredibly quickly. You know, you may think it's absurd after you've spoken. about the mail or the Sol or whatever, but I mean, it's amazing how fast it works and how fast it stays and people online I think I don't usually say where that comes from, I should believe you know I have a One A lot of friends and middle-aged people are just as bad as young people and they say I read online that Hillary Clinton murders her lawyer, which you know, I didn't know and they don't tell us this and I say it.

It may be that they are not telling you this because it is not true and you should look at this because I am referring to the American elections and you know, in Brexit and not so much in this euphoria but in the French elections there was an enormous amount of things on the networks social issues, which is incredible, things about Macron that were raised, that a large number of people looked at and were convincingly damning, but without any source, so all I'm saying is that yes, I think there is a change, but I do think . that you have to be very careful about where these things come from, so take this lady, they are all live until there is a microphone to the right of her.

Hello, hello, and I'm basically interested in them. Obviously you have voted and what is your real way. Dave, perfect, he thinks he's a voter, oh no, no, yes, and how much I guess I imagine you should have been partly what you're reporting because you're officially okay with that, so the key to getting out of any party, but It's a favorite party you have, they're coming to power, how do you deal with that? I've been beating the tires, I have no idea once in 500 between the elevated roads, the only road, I mean, I prepared the party that I disagree with the least and which one you know, I think is absolutely perfectly reasonable Democrat and I do it every time and I do it in my constituency and I do it on important issues and I have no problem with that.

I really like to vote, I mean, I went down and voted. in Hearst, which is a town in Kent, he was just me at 7 in the morning at the Churchill, but it's a very, very special process. I don't pretend that I don't enjoy it or think it's valuable and I do. always and one of the first things Jolyon asked because he has always been committed to getting the youth vote. One of the first documentaries I made for Channel 4. They said we were trying to get the youth vote. I said, well, the oldest. The issues in this election are education and employment and if young people are not interested in that then they should be and then I left and the producer said that's not what we want, we were hoping you would say something about the failure of Your generation compromised and tried new compromises, so I cut myself, how daring, but I mean, the revolution will be televised.

My favorite sketch was the two of them on top of the bus yelling at the young people not to vote slowly. in bed don't vote it's much better for us we'll keep running everything don't vote I don't, which again I want to say is what satire can do, it was absolutely crystallized as a problem and you know in my limited take on the elections. I think a lot of people didn't turn out and vote for Brexit, they were very angry and then they turned out this time and that changed a lot of the voting patterns we had.

I see, where do we have the next microphone? Kind of true, I've got one here, yeah, one there, and then we'll have those, someone's gonna wait feverishly until they get here, then we'll go up there, yeah, down here, buddy, let's move on, so up here. Hello how are you? Wait, sorry, you're next. Go on, we have cartoon figures like jumping onto the global stage and things are happening that you can't really make up. Do you think that makes it more difficult? Produce that, I'm sorry right now, are they making it easy for you? Know? Is it more difficult for you?

No, I think it's a little harder when you have a character like Trump because he's obviously absurd, but that doesn't seem to bother much. of people, so you have to find out what the weaknesses are and if you tell Donald Trump that you are very rich and stupid, that doesn't matter if you tell him that almost all your companies lost money and that you must be the only man in history, who run a casino where the house loses, you're clearly a totally incompetent loser, that hurts, you have to find the part underneath, you know, the grotesque and to be satirical, that's what you should really be doing and with Trump, I think you know.

Being Saturday Night Live has been particularly good because they've really upped their game and not only do Trump, but they do their press spokesperson, which is a very, very good analysis of why questions aren't asked and questions aren't asked. do. They don't answer each other, I mean, you just have to be better, but no, I don't think anyone said, you know, in the '30s or '40s, when everything was written down, I wouldn't bother reading any of those novels. I can't make it up, you know he did it and again I often find it in English literature.

I mean, when we had Mosley in black shirts, our best comics writer, PG Woodhouse, took on him by inventing a character who wore brown pants and had a brown pants movement where grown men ran around in shorts and it was incredibly funny and incredibly harmful and they were furious at fascists because all fascists want to be is to be taken seriously, you know, they are a very, very serious thing about a serious group. life and the suggestion that you are not and you make people laugh. I mean, you know Mosley was very angry, so there's a way, there's a way.

I think we only have five minutes left. I'm going to ask three questions. immediately this gentleman, the lady up there and we are on the other microphone, so I guess I still have a good foot from Jovie's movies, okay, we'll go this way, we have one there, one there and one there and a strange type of proportional representation. system is fine, sorry, who was terribly nice? Do you think you are being naive? Oh, young men for Corbin, okay, wise man, Corbin soaps up the young men over there. I think it's incredibly public because it offers an alternative to projecting the fear that we've had three times and I think you know young people in particular, but I think you know you're not the only one, you get bored of being told everything is going to be terrible. , that's it, that's the promise of the future, it's going to be terrible and Corbin and you mentioned before unleashing an energy by saying well, I don't think it will be, it may not be, it may be pretty good, which is what Mac says Ron.

I mean, there are other ways to tap into people's enthusiasm other than saying it's going to be terrible, and I think you know what conservatives had completely forgotten. You know after Brexit, Cameron's victory and Trump's victory, they looked at that and thought the lesson is that it scares people, but even Trump's victory was about telling the very poor and disadvantaged. people who wouldn't always be like that, you know, and there was a chance for him to make it better. I mean, ridiculous and transparent, and you know, but that was my biggest regret about macro, oh right, sorry.

Wow, God, vain, well, us. We only have two more minutes, friend, so we have to ask two more questions. This gentleman down here has been waiting. Don. I believe that the bombing affected this year's elections and how do you think? What is your opinion? I'm sorry. I'm a little nervous, well, they always take that. Bombing statistics, don't worry, the most important thing is to say macro, yes, throw my neck. Sorry, how did the bombing affect the election? Well, I think everyone imagined it normally. When there is a terrorist incident, it would be the government in power that walks up to the microphone and says it was terrible, but we will fix this.

It is usually neutral or helps the government in power. In this case, the Prime Minister was the Home Secretary, who had been there for six years, this was under his supervision. I mean, I think he had a hard time saying what the hell had been going on when he was there, which made it even harder to say that this shouldn't have happened. When the number of police officers was reduced, she found it difficult to resist criticism and this, curiously, weakened her. What should or what was the conventional wisdom? Based on Corbin's attitude toward terrorism, I mean literally saying there shouldn't be a shooting. kill policy before changing your mind and saying now that those kinds of terms weren't recorded, people didn't punish him for that, they punished her for what they considered a failure to detect this, I mean, and then that's me .

I think what we're trying to do, I mean, the blitz is very, very difficult to deal with, but I mean, you know, these situations always are, but people say there's no humor in it and then you get to a point where what you say right, the security services. Saying that these people are under the radar, they are very, very difficult to detect. I mean, they just have ISIS flags in their garden and throw the containers screaming death to the West and then at the last one, they are very difficult to detect. They're on channel 4 in a documentary called My Jihadist Neighbor, I mean, who doesn't, who doesn't know, I mean, I'm sorry, I said before, it's a habit of mind, it's a way of looking at the world, but it's still fun, there is still humor and I think finding things funny is one of the ways you rebel and a friend and I wrote a play about the First World War which is about two officers and one half of the First World War creating a newspaper trench satirist that is incredibly dark and incredibly funny.

They used to publish fake ads and one of them was for Flaman Bertha. She said that when her son got a mechanical mind, one of those wonderful little toys they call and this was the flamethrower. who had just been introduced to the Western Front, some horrible losses on the British side, these two put it up as an advertisement and it was their version of saying I won't be afraid, I'll still be funny and those two are my heroes, yeah, don't be afraid, be funny Chef Bill, can we thank you for your loss?