Frank Lampard Finally Speaks Out About What REALLY Happened At Chelsea | E264

When you got that call, if you had known the context, behind the scenes, that unhealthy culture. Do you honestly think you would have made a different decision? I think I can say that this Chelsea Legends, from

what

I read, the father was the biggest influence on your career and then I read a separate quote that said that sometimes I hated him, you know, my dad was a tough man, he put a lot of pressure on me on the front of football and it was probably too much, the fear of failure was a huge driving force that made me

what

I was. and in the end he gave me the career I had.

Chelsea fans will be listening to this because they want to know your opinion on what just

happened

because since you left we haven't heard from you. I came back here because this was a The opportunity to come to Chelsea travels close to my heart, but I was able to see and train the level was not enough. The size of the team with players who will test you and question you, and then Chelsea spends more money than anyone has ever spent on a In the window it looked like Tails could see that the players were ready for the season to end, but the lows standards are a symptom of something beyond Upstream that

happened

, you know we didn't get the results I wanted and I know a lot of the reasons why, like What moment happened in your life that

really

tested you on a much higher level? deep?

The passing of your mother and while you were playing at the highest level. I was a mother's son. I lost the person closest to me. You know everything. emotional support I want to say something else, you know and I couldn't, what would you want to say? Frank is a legend, there is no denying that, but so much has happened recently in his life as a manager that there are unanswered questions and I wanted to have a conversation with Frank, an open and honest conversation to see if we could get to the bottom of it. of some of those unanswered questions.

What was happening behind the scenes. How did Frank

really

feel? Is there anyone to blame? What does Frank want to do? Then how and what made Frank the man he is and that is perhaps the most fascinating question of all because there are some things that Frank has never talked about before, but he has made the decision to talk about them today and if not has an answer. questions I don't think you'll make it by the end of this episode Frank, how are you doing great? Thanks, there's always a short and long answer, right? I was waiting for your second drink.

Which is it? Which is it? Long version of that no, I'm doing very well. I am currently on a break. I guess from working, which is a pleasure in a way because obviously it's a manager's job. I was gonna say. Premier League coach, but any coach in football is intense, so at the moment I'm on a break, kind of a holiday time for myself, a bit of family time, and probably when I'm out of work, I learned this when I left Chelsea. Well, I had a year off after that and I really learned to try to improve my appreciation that when you're out of work, you're fortunate enough to be able to be out of work, whatever that circumstance is, but try to enjoy your family and be very present, so at the moment I'm pretty present at home, which is a good thing, I hope, for my kids and my wife, and I'm in a pretty good place.

I remember my brain would often fall asleep when I had my time off work um and I would think about things professionally so I would think about things that I could be doing or you would think about the past when you're having those get to know me moments. I know your kids are running around and you have a moment when your brain goes to work. What are the topics that your brain starts to think about professionally? You think a lot about management, uh, people, so I do reflect on situations. like leaving Chelsea or leaving Everton and stuff like that, there's a lot of things that are out of your control, you get to a point where you can get probably 70 of them and lock them up and get out and I'm Okay, you know you can't get the results. control, but 70 you're fine and there's 30 you get upset with, that's just how I am and a lot of that stuff when you become a manager and maybe something like that. people things, I think there is a kind of tactics and all these things are huge in a modern game and I'm certainly a coach, I'm not a coach, but when it comes to managing, I don't know 25 30 players managing and building because you're the figurative boss of a building when you're the head coach or manager.

I think sometimes when you're reflecting, you can reflect on the things that I had. What was that interaction? Could I have taken care of that? differently and hindsight is the best, the best, you know, it's so simple to sit there and look back and think you should have done it, so I guess I've had moments where I look back on things like that, but they're all with a con a longing to be a little better or learn that you may have done something wrong or you actually come to a conclusion oh maybe you did it right so you know I go in and out of those things um and that's probably what you know when I say No.

I would say I'm the only one, but I'm certainly someone who, you know, I can never control when those moments come. Now I can be pushing the swing, you know, with my son and then my mind goes back to something called things ahead. to something and you know that probably means I'm absolutely invested in what I do, yeah I can relate to all of that, I think anyone can do it, and I also really like your analogy of once you get to 50 or 70 pieces with something . It's more or less resolved, as far as you know, yeah, and then there are other things that seem unresolved, I guess, or there's more wisdom in Garner from those experiences, well, I guess if you don't come to peace with a 70 , I think you can do it. you're a little bit of a mess, you know, I think you can go over everything and correct yourself and then what the answer is in the future, so I think understanding what you are and then saying no, that was good, whatever the outcome of a victory. or because of a loss, I've had games as a coach and as a player where we won a game and I know I was wrong in the game, but you take the plot, it's afterward, but inside I know I was wrong.

I've had games that we've lost and you get criticism from the outside and I know that my preparation was correct, you know, in my head, so I think that kind of things can be piled on and on, no, it's fine, but there's always the 30 and we will always make an effort and it may be less. I don't know if 30 sounds like a big number when I say it, sometimes it's 10 to try to make you the best you can be, so I go over it. things because when you're out of work when you're not working and you don't know how to stand, we don't know what your next job is going to be, you know it's very difficult to jump too far into the future because everything looks different there.

So how can you be as good as you can be now? I want to get into all of that, but I want to take a step back because I think I feel like there's more that I need to understand about who you are as a person and your characters and your character and really the foundation that you're built on to understand all of these things that Let's talk so, what do I need to know about Frank Lampard in terms of influences? and the experiences that shaped your character the character of the man who sat across from me because you know I've talked to a lot of people about you in preparation for this conversation no, no, but they all seem to sing exactly the same thing, shoot, they all say you're a wonderful man, a really good, solid gentleman, and people don't know it, but we weren't going to have this conversation before, yeah, but you've been a total class.

Act even without being able to come last time because you know reasons beyond your control, the way you behave, you just behave like a true gentleman, and then in terms of your mentality, when I was reading your early years, it's clear that there was a real obsession with being better, I mean, Harry said Harry Redknapp said you were the hardest working, most trained person he had ever worked with when you were young, tell me what do I do? Why is Frank Lampard the way he is? I grew up in Romford in Essex so I'll probably call it a middle class upbringing in terms of my dad had been a professional footballer so I went through a fairly comfortable upbringing where I went to school every day aiming to do quite well. good at school, I train almost every day and plan the weekend, so after school we will go and try Tottenham, Arsenal and West Ham at one time, I was trying three small ones that could be done in those days, now is different.

I was playing Cricket, I was playing for Essex as a kid so it was Monday night having the Nets in Chelmsford and then Saturday I went to school, he's going to school Saturday so she was devastated at that time as we all were, but that was how school works and on Sundays I played, so my week was very busy but I was happy, very happy in terms of my family's relationship. I had a father who put a lot of pressure on me on the football front, very very hard, it was quite a difficult task teacher what does that actually mean? um that means probably when I started kicking the ball when I was four years old or maybe it seems like a walk, but you know, remembering that my first days would be four or five and then like that. that was me in terms of I loved football, but probably when I was eight or nine I was probably being coached or pushed into what might be 15 or 16 years old when they go to an academy in West Hamster, which is where I ended up while working on your weaknesses, go around the park, you need to have more stamina, if it's not good enough, your agility is not good enough, so I used to leave the cushions in the front room. and he made me react to our ball against the other, react and jump.

I am a kid. I loved it, don't get me wrong, but there were times where I didn't love it and it was probably too much. I'm not going to cry about it because it made me what I was and it gave me the career that I got in the end and then on the other side of that I had that kind of aggressive stuff and after a game on Sunday we were losing and I would realize that he would criticize me on the way home and I would get a little emotional and luckily for me when I think about some kind of fight and how things work together, maybe I will get used to where you have you, you end up being my mother was the change , emotional support, you know, hugging you, calm words.

I was a mama's boy and that was completely my upbringing, so as I say, it was quite comfortable and in the end it led to me leaving school with my grades getting. decent grades and then I was going to sign up as a youngster at the time as an apprentice at West Ham. I read that quote about your father. I think it was in the independent that your father was the biggest influence on your career and then I read a separate note. I quote that I have a lot to thank him for, but sometimes I hated him, yes, I am left with that silence.

I think you'll probably find it a lot in stories similar to mine, and nowadays I think it's changed because I think parents now might have something to do with my story in another time, it was that it felt quite organic. My dad had played. He probably saw some talent in me and pushed me and drove me the old way. I want you to be a player's son, you know, and he was like he thought, I think he found a new sense of pride in pushing me there now. I think some parents get excited about all the bright lights that there may be and they put pressure on their kids and I think that's another story, but I think mine was real, you know, my dad was a tough man, he's a tough man and He pushed me and, um, I remember being in a park and it was raining, he was crossing balls so I could head.

Hedden has never been one of my strengths throughout my life. race and I couldn't, you know I couldn't connect, I missed them and he was yelling at me and I remember stomping away and getting excited about it and um, those things stay in my head and again they were the building. blocks of myself as a person so you know this is not a sad story it's just a reality of what I went through and when I started I had a lot of other comforts so I know other people don't have it as good and it was Without that, who knows in the football sense if I would have gotten to where I got and how is that um what relationship does that have with your work and your progress and improvement at such a young age because you sign up for West Ham when you are 14 years old uh 15 maybe 15 yes 15. and I and I mean, like I said, I read that Harry Redknapp quote that you worked harder than everyone else, yeah, what's your relationship with your work, yeah, from that very moment on. young age, well, I'm really interested in this kind of nature versus nurture stuff, um, what was in me was already ingrained in me, maybe to be this kind of person with work ethic, I think I had, you know, physical ability.

I was a chubby kid, to be fair, I was quite chubby with these curtains of cheeks like you had in those days and I remember needing to get in shape and um and get stronger, so um and then my dad particularly pushed me and cheered me up. because of my mom it probably gave me this real desire to understand that if you don't work you're not going to get there and you know that's what I would try to pass on to my kids now, but it really stuck and became me, so when I was 16 years,As I remember, it was probably in West End in my early years, probably my dad forced me to do it a little bit, but I took it into account, so you know.

I wanted to be faster so he gave me running spikes and I had to run afterwards. from training to go and run around the back and I used to hide my nails go out the back I didn't want the other players to see me because I felt embarrassed um, I would go on the days off um, I would practice extra shooting I would do everything I could to improve and it was probably looking back um, a desire to be the best and I was never the best I was probably like the second or third best guy in almost every team I played for, in anything I did Cricket or football, but I had a desire real and I also had a fear of failure and as much as that doesn't seem like a good driving force, it can be a very strong driving force I think where that fear of failure came from I don't know I don't know I think it's in my makeup maybe not I know It's probably how I am I probably still have it These days I think it can be really positive, it was in my football career and continued probably still in my managerial career.

I can probably be the turn of that in my life because if I'm afraid of failing at something, I won't address it. that and me, that's me, I don't want you to know that my wife always jokes with me when we go on vacation and you want to paddle or something. I won't go near that because I know I'm going to fall. I'm gone a lot, you know, so she'll laugh at me, so I'm like your paddle board. I'll lie on the beach or lie on the mat or something like that. I actually use the paddle board as a lie.

That's the joke, but in the broader sense of my life, you know the fear of failure is and it can probably make me not try things that I should do, but in terms of my football career, the fear of failure was a big one. driving force and I don't think it's a bad thing because I think there's a certain humility to it and my mother certainly would have been my driving force when I was young, just like stay humble son, stay humble, never get too high, stay there and do it. you will achieve. Being okay in your own head, so I think I really understood my weaknesses and I thought, well, if I can work on them constantly and then I started to see results really step by step, sometimes you go back, you go forward a few, but I.

I can certainly say that looking back at my career from start to finish, I left nothing on the table in terms of work ethic and training. You know, I don't want to sound like an absolute machine. There will be days when you will grow old. When you give it up a little bit or start to find affection in life in different ways, but me, when I look at my teammates in football, I certainly had a training ethic that at least stayed at the top, whether know that others can continue the same. maybe, but I felt like that's the Harry Redknapp quote that says that during his career he never met anyone who trained as hard as Frank.

He would be there at a winter day practice and shooting for hours. Left foot, right foot, etc. That fear of failure though I can see how it becomes a driving force and makes you stay out there on a winter day. Left foot, right foot, leaving no stone unturned, but with all these things comes a greater cost for the other. The other side of the coin is right, and I mean you talked about the paddle board thing, which is kind of like if I don't do it, then I won't fail, but one of the things I assumed is that you also I would be a chronic overthinker, yes, because I think people who have that fear of failure try to think through a situation before it happens.

Yes, in general, what is the cost of having that fear of failure? Well, the other thought is maybe a cost and I think that can be positive too, but I think it can be quite exhausting for you, you know, for anyone with things like that, and you know, sometimes it would. I've tried to become someone who doesn't think too much, however you do it. I don't know because I haven't found a solution for that because, um, I think that's when you're, um, it's on you, so probably the disadvantages or the disadvantages have probably been a little bit taxis that I, but I think.

You also learned to live with that and I think you understand it. I think it's something I'll never master and it can probably make you overly complicated in situations like the ones you talk about not wanting to have. But if you get into something and you're really overthinking it, you have to get into something. Now I try to take a step back and simplify and say stop overthinking, simplify it because for me, anything in life if you can simplify the basics you'll probably get to the solution faster, so, that's just a struggle that I endured, but like I say, I think it's just part of my makeup if I wasn't an overthinker, if I didn't have that kind of obsessive perfectionist training.

Drive I wouldn't have gotten to where I got because I wasn't Lionel Messi, who has this God-given talent that's there, wherever my talent was on the spectrum, I needed to push it and I'm constantly trying to how did you enjoy the process if you're overthinking, weirdly me. like, I've really liked the stress of what it brings and that's it and that's what you might start to think I'm a strange person, I don't know, but I loved stressful training, you know? put in a physical place, for example, I loved that feeling of almost feeling bad in a preseason race or, you know, really intense training sessions.

I really enjoyed it, maybe not always in the moment, but you know when you get to the end of If I got through that and it was very intense and difficult, maybe in life I sometimes give myself challenges and maybe I make it more complicated than it should , but I don't care about those things and that was probably when I started talking about that relaxation when you are with your children. I think I'm still juggling that and I think a lot of people probably are. Don't know. I think you know that overthinking isn't unique to me. completely everywhere um, but no, I don't know what else to say and that's what I am, that enjoying the pain like the preseason race, if you feel bad, then you feel good about yourself, yeah, why don't you?

HE. I mean, I went to the gym this morning and I really didn't want to go and I bought the dog and my time limit is getting shorter and I'm going and I want to go. I'm going to go in because I know the buzz that will go away afterward and that's kind of my drug and it always has been and you know it probably starts from all those early days where you know you have to work hard, you have to strive, you have to be the most possible and I probably just got stuck and it's probably kind of life for me, um, but I do, fortunately, I enjoy the stress of hard, physical work, but less now, I'll finish, you know, now it's more about not being too unhealthy or fit, whereas when I was training and playing even when I finished playing for a couple of years, if I was going for 5k, I need to beat my 5K PB.

I have to try to get over it now, when I do a 5k I'm just going to complete it. I know this and I'm completing it in about 20 or 30 seconds less, so I've let it drop a bit and maybe transfer it to other parts of my life. I guess a quick one before we get back to this episode, just give me. 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show. Week after week means a lot to all of us and this is truly a dream we never had or could.

I hadn't imagined getting to this place, but secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're just getting started and if you enjoy what we do here, join the 24 people who watch this channel regularly and have hit the subscribe button, which means more. from what I can say and if you hit the subscribe button, here's a promise I'll make you. I will do everything in my power to make this program the best it can be now and in the future. hand over the guests you want me to talk to and we'll continue doing all the things you love about the show, thank you, thank you very much, let's go back to the episode when you finished your football career, you know there's a lot of options you had, expert.

I mean I'm just talking about the typical path that footballers sometimes just go about doing business, yes some of them go to training and stay in football but you made the decision to stay in football , why and was it? There is something else that has tempted you. I did Panda Tree for a year, so I spent a year working mostly on BT and doing a few different things. BBC I did some parts and I really enjoyed it, it was great. I've been working a lot with The Real Ferdinand Stephen Gerrard and Jake Humphrey, who had them recently and really good people, and it was like a step into the game and a step towards my retirement, so I can do other things that you know, the life of an expert is much easier. that the coach, we all know that, so I put my eggs in both baskets, at that time I did that and I did my coaching badges and I wanted to see how I felt a little bit and I didn't want to be. a manager in my 20s, when I got to 30, I thought, that's interesting, people managers now, how are they coping?

I just thought about myself when I was 20 years older um and then when I finished, I got my coaching badges, I started to pretty much. I liked it and then I got an unexpected offer to go manage Derby Derby County. Owner Mel Morris took a bit of a risk. He was speaking to Harry Redknapp, who is my uncle. Harry said to talk to him. Frank we sat for two hours in Chelsea in a hotel and he offered me the job and it was like, um, a Christian has a sound and it's like jumping and the network will appear and we sat in my front room and I was like, you know ?

I've earned my coaching badges, but this is a proper job. I'm going to the Derby, only they have some problems and it's going to be a tough job or whatever all jobs are and I jumped because, um, probably that internal drive I have. a desire, you know, it wasn't something that I'm an overthinker, so that probably made that process of those couple of days where I had to make a decision really intense, but at the same time I like challenges, I love the challenges and as much As I enjoy the experts, you know it's a challenge, you want to do it well, you want to do it like you know the best guys do it, you have to put everything into it and do it very well, but I was when I wanted more.

I wanted to step on the grass I wanted to work with pliers I wanted to try and improve the pliers I wanted to see if I could do it. It's probably more, if I'm honest, I can probably do it and can I do anything? and I was probably naive at the time because the moment I walked into the Derby I thought, wow, this is different, you know I have to celebrate them. Now I'm holding the meeting instead of one of the 25 players sitting there listening and as much as You might think I'm going to do that the moment you walk up and see those 25 faces and then you walk up to say hello to Jeanette, who's your secretary, and this one and to the Playa link, and I say, "Oh, I have to manage." all this too and you have to know that the building is yours to set the tone so that the first year some of it was good.

I think sometimes in management a great manager told me this, he said and he was as old as he was old and he said I think I was a better manager when I was young in many ways, he said because when I grew up I started to think too much about things and to become a little more cynical and you know you look back on these things when I was young. I simply made decisions and now I was free to do so. I think there is a balance in that experience. Obviously, clear experience can help you as you move forward.

Learn from mistakes, but I understand that I understood his point when he said that because I came into the Derby fresh and I made a lot of mistakes because you're always going to make them, but I also had freshness, bounce and a feeling inside that I had made it. I kind of want to take this on and despite those scary moments, you know, when you feel like a little bit of imposter syndrome, should I be doing this? and you've hired him like he remembers having a whistle for the first time. day and try to do it again on the training ground.

I'm going to ruin this at the end of training and I was used to hearing about these stupid sounds. I was used to hearing coaches say the session was over, stop, it was over. a bit like what kind of whistle I didn't want to do a bit I don't remember the guys let alone like I had a bigger team and set the tactics and set the tone which was about all those little stings and I think if they were honest I think which you know people in business have had those simpler things where you're sitting there saying wow, that little basic thing that I didn't consider is now in my head, yeah, so I had a lot of those and it was we got to the final of the playoffs, we got to Wembley, we lost a final against Aston Villa to get to the Premier League and I was very disappointed for the club in Derby and the owner had given me up, you know? he put everything into me and we had a really good year and we got there and we lost it, but in terms of that first year of management, yeah, my drive led me to it and it was just a big learning curve and it was really nice. year, theimposter syndrome, I mean, that's kind of related to I guess your fear of failure, how come we talk a lot about imposter syndrome on this podcast? because it's, it's a, it's a two-sided thing, on the one hand, you have that feeling. of something I can remember when I turned into a dragon in Dragon's Den and sat next to Peter Jones and Deborah Meaden.

Peter Jones has been there for 21 seasons since the beginning. Deborah Mead's been there for 17 and I feel like I just walked into television, yeah, like your little whistle is me, like how do I say I'm out, okay exactly, yeah, um, but being at peace with it, like How have you dealt with that in your career? you went from being a pundit to managing a club that was trying to get promoted to Chelsea, these are big strides, yeah, huge strides, um, I think I probably managed to get coping mechanisms along the way that have put that to one side. and in a simple sense I've become a lot more confident in myself um outside of work outside of work actually at home a lot happier with myself again it's probably about being really settled in the relationship I'm 45 now I just turned um but in the workplace Also, that first year I remember feeling it a lot and when I moved to Chelsea like it was a big move, it was a big jump to the Champions League club, although I knew the club very well, it was a big jump. dealing with players of different heights Etc um, but I've found that the imposter syndrome is much less and I just had coping mechanisms where I could just say, "Okay, you're nervous about accepting this meeting because you're a little out of place." .

In your comfort zone, you have to be critical of a player, so you're going to attack someone, you're going to show him a video of the game the other day and it's like that's not always a comfortable thing to do and I've probably found mechanisms to be able to go well, you almost get into character and that doesn't sound too much like an actor, but you go, I'm going to get into it and the more I think you do. that, the better you can be at dealing with that thing and then you also have to realize that you know you may feel a little bit like that, you may feel a little bit like it's out of my comfort zone. you can make mistakes I think showing that you can make a mistake in front of a group of players is not the worst, you know they are there for the players to understand, you make the smallest mistake, one of those 25 at least will go away.

Well, when he said that, you know, but I think you have to come to terms with it and you can even joke about it after the event because you'll keep doing them, so I'll probably come to terms with it. I've been able to deal with that side of it. I think so. I was thinking about that moment while you're talking about my experience being a dragon and when one of the things I've always wondered about when players transition from being a dragon. a player to a coach and especially when they have been coached under a legend of a coach so I was thinking Ollie um oligon Associates Alex Ferguson yeah how hard is it to be yourself versus being the successful coach that you saw when you like ? because even when I became a dragon, I think for the first two years I was sure I was trying to be a dragon, yeah, not being Steve, yeah, yeah, and that's a journey, but do you understand the question?

I completely understand her. They do it to me. A lot and I'm not exactly in the same shape as you guys, but football journalists ask me what they get from all the coaches they play with and all that stuff and they know just jumping to one would be Jose. It's good to jump to Mourinho because he had a big effect on my career as many did, but he came and probably elevated me in my playing career to a different level and what I learned from José and then passed on to the coaches afterwards. That's what impressed me about Joseph, there was a really authentic nature about him, like when he was confident, a little bit cheeky, Joseph, that's him, you know it was him and you know maybe he's playing a little bit sometimes. from time to time, but I saw it behind the scenes and then when I worked with other managers who were maybe probably striving to be something like that and I think after Joe said there was a generation of managers who were a little bit like, "okay , I'm".

I'm going to wear this, I'm going to wear the scarf and I'm going to write them with you know or act a little like you know, say those things that he used to say and he says um and I don't, I didn't. Take it as such and even from the outside, when you look at the manager, you know you have that impression, so I think you're probably going to be fine. Can I take things from all these managers for my journalist question? Yes, I did it from Sam and not from others, blah blah. but when you get down to it, you have to be yourself because you will get found out and you will probably be right in my early days.

I did it too. I went back to my first meeting at the Derby. It was true. I'm a former player, so. Anyone who wants to knock on my door come see me and I'll know I'll tell you the truth and we'll get it out or I'll know I'll give you whatever answer you want and I I remember for the first three weeks they kept knocking on the dock. I was like and I wanted to do another meeting, so guys, if you're going to knock on my door, come to me with similar facts of why you should play, you know what your training is like. you know, come with something, I don't want you, I just didn't play on Saturday like Monday morning, there's like five at the door knocking and you know, the policy of opening a door is good, but at the same time it was like those were like learning curves for me, I probably said that phrase because I needed to say it right, yeah, you know what I mean, because there's a place where there are really cool things to play.

I want the manager to be able to talk to me all the time. and when I said it, I told Sam what I thought he should say and then you know you learn a little lesson you know my daughter is hopefully still open now, but at the same time she was probably playing the role of manager um and then Now you say what is real for me here. Know? Do I have to say that's another way of saying it or whatever? And that leads me to a question: wouldn't it have been great if you left? and learn those lessons when the stakes weren't that high because even the stakes are very high in the Derby because you're finding out Frank, the manager there, yeah, and sometimes you don't want to be at the poker table playing for real money.

Yes, but that's my life. You know, I know what you're saying and I think I think I can say this. I think it's a former English player Stephen Gerrard. Others who have played at a high level. I know I have played 100 times in our country, etc. I think the culture in this country is to kind of say right now you're a coach, go and own your stripes there because being a player at that level doesn't do it. I mean you're going to be a coach, so I think that might have been a route where you could get a lot of fair play.

He went down to division two and is showing what he is doing and there is a process, the reality is. That path wasn't for me, you know, and Mel Morris asked me to take the job at Derby, it was a question, yes, a challenge, yes, please, I'll take the challenge, you know, when I beat you there and Chelsea came to For me, it was a difficult moment. on a transfer ban, you know, and when I was leaving, it was a real transition, young players, what will be there next year. I think probably some great coaches just turned it down.

I know, so it was like, yeah, you know what the challenge is? I'll take it so you know I don't want to try to recreate the past. I think why I didn't do it because you know that I have achieved it in four years of management. I've had some experience and, as far as you know. you will always get criticism, you know you leave Chelsea, people will criticize you, you go to Everton, you stay, you get relegated people criticizing you, but at the same time I am resilient enough to deal with all those things that have happened.

Probably the good thing about having a long career in football, that's why my thing is that I can manage Derby. I can go and manage Chelsea and do it at a good level also because I have had successes and when it hasn't happened. Well, I mean, that's the manager today, so I think I probably worked a lot in four years and worked at a high level with players who will test you and question you because Champions League players question you. , so it's just my way, um, I mean, that's it, so Champions League players ask you, you never assume that happens.

I mean, I don't know much about what's going on in the room, but yeah, no, I think when I say that. I think for today's player, in particular, I think in previous series they probably would have been more vocal and you know, but now that today's player has a good understanding of the game, a lot of them have been trained very, very well in academies to a high level, uh, when they get to the top, also when you, when you know, they are establishing tactics, they will have questions for you and you have to accept that because you know that reality is what you want they do. you understand what you want or sometimes they say something like okay, we could change that, you know or whatever, and I think when you get to the highest level in football you have to understand what the best day is, now they have to do it.

Understand that you are the boss and that you have to be a man. They are very clear, but at the same time there will be many providers who will challenge you. you know and you get a lot more out of it and I remember reading that Pep Guardiola once said that even if you don't know the answer pretend you know the answer to say yes and you do, so there's a version of that because You know, when things are thrown at you , sometimes it's like you know football is an active game and I think sometimes nowadays we watch Monday Night Football, you see it after the event, you know they should have done this. or people imagine what, you know, Pep Guardiola or the yoga club or the fantastic coaches are doing and it must be something incredibly complicated, sure they are incredible coaches, but it's an active game, so if you can give a good message, the rest is up to the players at the same time, so you just have to prepare them as best you can, but they will challenge you.

That made me think about when I sat down with Jamie Carragher and he was telling me about all the coaches. He had had um all over him when he played for Liverpool and then he heard from all the United players, Nanny and ever, Gary and Rio, about what Sir Alex was like and then he read from all the coaches he worked with. I mean, there are so many of them, from José to Angelotti, so many. I mean, there was a period where managers were sacked every six months, it feels like Chelsea, yeah, and what I got from all of them is that there's actually no successful plan to be a successful manager there's no plan. there is no one way to be a successful manager some of them are tactical some of them are human managers yes it is that precise it is very precise I agree with that um and Chelsea is a bit of a unique example because during my time there they changed a lot of coaching as you say and I don't think it's the most productive way to run a business in a lazy way in terms of football because in an ideal way of doing it, we trust this manager, this work with him, this is the idea, let's go to follow it and of course it is the prerogative of the honest to change that what we had at that time was a fantastic unit. within the dressing room there was a lot of talent, a high personality that led the dressing room, so we had a great team and a great team, and when I say that we had a backbone of players like John Terry, Peter and Didier, the drummer Ashley Cole, I could continue and There were personalities and sometimes they clashed, but we knew our place, we knew we could trust him, I knew I would run for him and he would run for me, and we also had great talent as a player who would do video drama and score. every end, so I think we like to bridge that gap of changing managers, um, and I think when you go back to the question of do you know great managers, I think sometimes it's a case of committing to who you are.

When working with people, you have to have the right interpersonal skills and that's the first thing I learned as a difference and plan manager is that you have to deal with people, you have to try to inspire all the players within that group and inspire the collective to that each player will have a different motivation it could be money for one it could be that he wants to be the best striker in the world it could be that I want to be in front of him because I don't like him whatever it is, try and I take advantage and I think that the best of managers It's my opinion and I played by what you say a lot and I'm trying to be one, is that they give you something that you believe in, that you can work for and you will accept it, and this. and sometimes it's a complicated process, you know, you see Manchester City lift that treble and you mentioned the Champions League, there will be so many things we don't know behind the scenes, this player is not happy, he had to do this, all these things that come together and they give you that incredible moment and I had it as a Chelsea player, so if you just say, go and tell me what great coaches and I are, here's an answer in a minute, it's impossible to say. man management that's what all the United players said about Sir Alex, it's the one thing they all completely agree onokay, they would say he was the best coach and, um, an inconsistent leader, which is an interesting concept and what I mean by inconsistent leader is I would treat Gary differently than Nanny and Evra and they all told me their stories and Rio He also told me about when Sir Alex brought that bottle of whiskey to his sick grandfather's bed and Rio doesn't know it.

How we knew what his favorite brand of whiskey was and how we knew his grandfather was sick. Yeah, Gary told me that he used to tap him on the shoulder and say, "Think of your guilt," your grandfather's shrapnel that's still in his shoulder when you go out today. He ensured a sort of bespoke leadership approach, which seems to be Sir Alex Ferguson's highest accent, and I think that comes through today as we get very caught up in tactics and, rightly so, the game has moved on. tactically since those days, but those people and you will know yourself, you will meet inspiring people and, as you say, be personalized and individualize it and look within the group and have moments because you know, if you ask me about my career, you say like Frank, do you say? would you remember?

Of those 20 years, do you remember the meeting in which José, you know, played you a little higher? Wouldn't I tell you? Do you remember the time José told you those words that inspired you and could be like a phrase? See, yeah, I remember, you know, I mean things that stay with me, that I remember, that made me go, I'm going to run for this man, he'll make me better, you know, I had that and I believe that. What you just said about Sir Alex Ferguson, I think the great coaches you should look at and they have it in different styles, Pep Guardiola, yoga and Klopp, they will all have a different style and that is a big part of their success, I think?

Would you like it as a coach if you had to do a self-evaluation? I think you can ask someone else now. Don't know. I know. I try to stay close to the players while saying my open house thing. but at the same time I think I try to find a balance. I think the important thing for me when I became a coach was not to expect anyone, any player, to see what I saw or train how I trained or whatever you know. For better or worse, and you have to do it. I think it's a skill that, you know, Sir Alex probably had perfectly, so I try to be as close to the players as possible.

I try to learn all the time. I am a coach. I want a coach. On the pitch I think my greatest pleasure is coaching and improving players, especially young ones, and I've been lucky enough to work with some really good jump players at Derby. I had Mason Mountain Harry Wilson for Kayo tomorrow and then at Chelsea. obviously extra Tommy Abraham and yeah and Anthony Gordon etc so I think they're real sponges who are a real pleasure to work with and I love that part of being able to talk to them and you find it and it's a reality and I remember that when you're an older player you're a little more cynical when you're a younger player you're like they're a blank canvas and you can, you know, push them and try to push them on that so I'm probably pretty intense with the younger players um , I try to be, like I say, inclusive and I'm always trying to learn um and and I try and just try to be me, it's a difficult answer, I think you would have to ask, you know, maybe a staff member or a player, I chose to the right player because you will probably get different answers because when you work with I worked recently at Chelsea with 30 players, I picked 11 for a game and like eight substitutes and the substitutes, eight outfield substitutes, the substitutes.

I don't really like them because they're not starting let alone the other 10, you know, so it's a very difficult balance with a modern team to get there, but you have to try to make it inclusive because if you're going to get anywhere you have to all go. together and that was one of the problems of being Chelsea this season with 30 players. It is not possible to achieve it. On the other hand, this is not possible. Maybe it's even more difficult. Question: what are you trying to work on? So what are the areas as a leader as a manager that you are trying to work on?

Because I can think of several areas that I go to, you know what? There's still somewhere where I have a recurring when I reflect back, I'm like, I need to improve here, what is that to you, quite a few things I would say because, um, the other thinker thing comes back and I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so which you know I always want to try to improve, you know my tactics and my personal touch and stuff, but I think when I left Chelsea I realized that I needed to delegate my time better, that was something I certainly wasn't very good at. .

I have you, you have. Your staff for a reason are there to support you at a time when they will be better than you at certain things, so give them the information and tell them that you obviously oversee that and I probably spent a lot of time trying. be in everything, whereas actually I probably could have come back from that and saved my own energy, so I think I'll definitely try to improve that side I did between Chelsea and Everton, I'll definitely try to save that, I can be pretty. Sometimes I overreact if I see things I don't like in terms of and when I study it's always the effort or the standards and I think I'm, that's one of the things I like the most is you know if you're going to do a mistake in a game I don't have a problem with that um if you're not going to run for your teammate if you're not going to train during the week with the idea that when I train on Monday that has a direct relationship with what Saturday will seem like If I don't have that feeling then I can probably get angry at a player or maybe distance myself from the player a little bit and I think when you work with a group you have to be careful with that because not all players have your mentality so you have to try to bring them to the party or else they will have to not be there if you want to be successful, as far as I see it, and that sounds.

Really tough, but it's one of those things where you go if you can work on a team and you're going to get it exactly where you want it to be outside of that team of 25 if you have that. I more or less remember that the manager would say this, you know that there are your six or seven, you know that you are going to receive every day, you are going to train, you are going to come in, they are going to be very active every day. day you're going to have the middle group or somewhere in the middle and you had the ones that maybe I'm just coming to train you know or you know I'm a little sore today you know that sounds simplistic but you have to try to work if you want to work in a full direction and see well, those six are with me, right?

Try and gather them together, those are the ones who can get the message across, the ones in the middle, okay, can we keep pushing? working between the staff and myself to try to improve them and then those who are there come, can we help them? can you come with us? If not, you have to talk to the club and that is where the club has to be aligned to do well. If you want to go in that direction and we're with you, fine, we'll sort it out and that becomes a recruitment or players leaving the club.

I mean, that's what you know, that's the reality that it has to be and that's the reality of business. Also, I just finished writing this book and it talks about these three lines and it basically says if everyone thinks about one person on your team and if everyone on the team correctly represents their cultural values, which is what you're talking about. You will talk to your six disciples there if they all represented the cultural values ​​with the bar with the Barbie generally raised or lowered and there will be some people who would imagine if they were all like them, like a Frank, you know, a Frank Lampard or a John Terry , how high cultural values ​​would be raised, then you have other people where, if everyone was like them, you would be relegated, yeah, and what to do with those three cohorts of bar-raising maintainers and barlowers, and that's what Yo, that's a good way.

To put it, I mean, I think I think bar raises can take some time to get the bar up, but bar raises can catch you up very quickly, yeah, yeah, that's my experience because that kind of consistency or whatever. is what you know like, oh, why are we doing this train, why do we have to do it or whatever? That kind of negativity that can creep in can be really contagious and in a winning sport, and as much as we're talking about great coaches here. winning is all you know and obviously it's relative to whether you're a city man or at Everton as Everton will win between 35 and 40 games at Best at the moment and you know that so you know it's going to be about 65 per cent of the weeks, although it's not that good, the bullets can work and they take it down quickly, whereas if you can get the razors to take over then I think generally you can get there, so it's really the important thing is probably one of the interesting things that, like I say, the transition from player to manager is trying to achieve that because if you are one of those who raise the bar or you are in the middle group or in the Legal Group when you become As a manager, it doesn't matter what Whatever you are, you have to get there, get the scripts of what it is and just push it, so that's something I'm trying to improve on all the time and get out there.

Sometimes I give you a good bit of time to get perspective and I'll just line it up a little bit and it looks a little different than what I thought before that experience. Yeah, this is, I mean, I guess that's why. Some of the greatest managers of all time cling to Gary Neville and his disciples, yes, and I spoke to Gary about this. Gary told me, in fact, when we were filming Dragonstone recently, he said he for those last few. Two years Sir Alex kept me there because of my impact in the locker room, yes not because of my impact on the field, but in the locker room I could keep the standard high, um, in the modern world I was reading the statistics, coaches get fired more fast.

It sure never and almost must be very difficult to establish Authority when the game is aware that the manager will be the one to be eliminated if things don't go well in the business, isn't it, as CEO. because I own the company and I'm the manager, yes, so if there is behavior under me that is toxic and contagious, I can act, yes, the center of authorities with me, yes, whereas in a club it seems that the center of authority is really like the president. the owner, yes, sometimes the manager gets there, but in the modern world we don't allow managers to last long enough to build that Authority, no, and that's the tough world it is and I think you know you probably have to earn the Right as a coach to get to a club, maybe when you look at the perfect models right at the top, you know, and Manchester City is a good topic to talk about now.

I work with the city group. I've been playing there for a year and I could see. When I was there, they hadn't gotten to that point, but I could see with the stability from the top and how it worked and the vision that we were going to have, they were going to get somewhere because they had a great structure and it wasn't like everything was going to be pushed and pushed and dragged for a small period of time, so we'll get there and then they hired Pep. You know, they didn't have a difficult first year, but the first year was kind of like that. he finds his way, I need this, I need this and then he's a fantastic manager and they've got great players, but if you don't have that lined up where, like you said, the most important person at the club currently, in my opinion, is the owner and it's a structure at the top because they really set the time maybe it's financially maybe it's with the athletic directors and recruiting because you're going to be as good as the players, you recruit a great coach again.

I don't want to sit down. Here and leave names that they told me was when we finished it. The first thing I did was Everton we were left by the skin of our teeth and he randomly said congratulations. He's gone, Frank, don't rest. 80 of your work for the next season. it's going to be done in the next month so it was recruiting so 20 is what you're going to do next year and now 80 is like bringing in the right players so I think you know like that that lineup like I keep saying there's something that You know if you can get it and I know they are excellent owners and they are excellent support directors and Recruitment and the manager and the manager are fundamental to it, but when you look at last season, 13 managers left their Club.

I think it's 13 out of 20 clubs and you're talking about Antonio Conte and you're talking about Thomas, you know he achieves great successes, it shows you that the landscape has changed to the point where the coach will be guilty and I think you have to come, you have to be at peace with it, but you have to try to get to the point very quickly where you are successful and that's difficult because winning is and in the modern world of social media the reaction is like putting it out there, you know. the next one, you know, sometimes maybe they're right, maybe the manager is guilty, but other times there's a lot of things and, going back to your original point about the players and those walls and the Gary Nevilles and James Milners in Liverpool in En In recent years, you meet people from outside.

I think it's very easy to look at the superstars and most of the sellers there. I can guarantee it and I know it first-hand from speaking to people like James Milner and Jordan Henderson who have absolutely set the tone. of that club over the last few years for a greatthe Premier League or whatever, watching everyone on video high, but like you can get by. All these players who are like absolute Legends now, if you ask, you know, those five, six, seven players who came in and started working at a difficult time for the club, it's understandable, so I think, as a Chelsea fan, the you know.

Look at it and do it well, that's positive, there is talent. Okay, you need to work with it now. I'm sure you can see the squads being trimmed and as I can tell you know in your heart that the owners' intentions are absolutely not. They have spent that money because they want to. Well, now if they are going to address the situation a little bit, that is their strategy in the future, but I think you know that you will see players like Enzo Fernández Madrid and these madoiki players, young players that will develop and to be great players for the club, you have to get the structure, write the right strategy going forward, what's mine is to add like I know six or seven of these players, all at once, about halfway through the season, on a team. that's already struggling to find out who it is under Graham Potter um, it raises the question of who is doing the recruiting here because at other clubs it's much more strategic, it seems like a much more strategic, intentional, football-driven approach to recruitment, whereas what I saw at Chelsea and actually spoke to some people at Chelsea who are involved in recruitment, it seemed like chaos, yeah I mean I wasn't there during that period so I got there in April and January was the last window and obviously they passed last summer, but I think the change of ownership and then obviously there were some people who were in the hierarchy of the club and they moved, so they were changing, so there was a big change of structure, so I think there is to give some time and leeway for the process and certainly now there are sports directors recruiting people there who work with them who are very talented and very hungry, you know it's good to go and I think now it will be up to them .

To move the club forward, they have not signed bad players. I think this is maybe the strategy of bringing them all in at that time. It seems a little exciting at the moment, since there are many players with a chance of success, but I think. There is probably a long game and I think there is a plan and I think probably most of the big clubs like Chelsea have had a version of what this period is. Manchester United. You mentioned Arsenal there for quite some time. Liverpool during periods. You know, so I think having to give something different to judge too much now when I think they've signed some good players would be being too critical.

I think right now I think the test will be now how these players once develop. Now it feels a little. more settled in the future I think that's all true. I think, in your opinion, what is the optimal way for player recruitment to happen? Because you often hear about these stories where you know I know they're going to take over a club and then they'll just decide who they want, which is probably what I'd be like if I were an owner. I think I would like the football manager. I think I just buy who. I want to buy who I think looks good.

Manchester United. I struggled with it, it felt like our decisions were business decisions rather than football decisions, then when Eric's 10 hugs come around, it feels a little more like kids' football decisions and, in your opinion, and then I talked to some people in Chelsea because I actually went to I was invited to sit with Richard Arnold at a couple of Manchester United executives and when we played Chelsea at Old Trafford I was in the director's box so I sat with Chelsea's new sporting director, yeah, um and he said there are two athletic directors now, I think so, so it's interesting to talk to them, but in your opinion, what is the optimal way for recruiting to happen?

Well, I think that with a you have to understand what you want, the philosophy and identity of the club are like that, for example, I think that Manchester City is quite firm in the idea when Pep Guardios come in and their sporting directors have previously worked in Barcelona with him, this is how we want to play, this is a coach that is going to offer that style, so this is how we recruit for that style. Chelsea has always been a bit different for me, the beautiful game, the ticket package is called Man City, it hasn't been the Chelsea style, it's been more of a winning machine and in a different way, you know, and in my time it was more a powerful team that was probably good to look at, but we weren't that kind of people, you know, in the past we were powerful and effective, so I think you have to do it.

Understand what you want to be and once you get to that point, probably the first thing is to recruit a coach that you know works within that and then you will know that that is the type of coach that you want because this is one that obeys those conversations or an interview. process and then once you get to that point I think recruiting needs to be coordinated depending on how active the owner wants to be and I respect and appreciate the active owners like their clubs, their prerogative and then the sporting directors and the manager and then obviously recruiting that brings all the data analysis into the picture and it has to be united and it has to be very sure when you want to bring in a player that you are going to go, yes, this is the play that we want to bring in, there is always one, two or three options because you may not get the number one goal, but I think you have to be able to recruit for the style that you want to have, so the coach really has to have a big hand in that. too, but you as a coach on Monday understand and the process.

I appreciate being aligned and having other people not only responsible for who you bring in, but also for giving me something that I don't know, I'm not there. extract the data, you know they have to show you that data and here are the reasons why the videos people have seen them and also the personality of the player, because it does not mean that you are going to sign, you know 10 James Milners because his character is incredible. and they're professional, but you need to know that they're going to come in and they're going to walk into the room, who it's going to be, they're going to be good for the locker room and they're going to help you in terms of how to move forward in terms of their personality, one of the key questions that I want to answer and that I wanted to answer.

To ask you today is: how would it have had to happen to avoid the situation where there was that unhealthy culture at Chelsea behind the scenes? those when you came back as interim what would you have done what could you have done to prevent that from happening say you're in the you know if you were if you could, in retrospect, have a wand and correct the things that were done. I receive the first one. point that was about a squad size smaller, um, what else prevents that from my first day there? You are a genius and you can know what you know about what you inherited there, what you would have had to do. it has to be done beforehand to prevent you from inheriting that the smaller team is the first thing I got, yeah, smaller team, I mean, some things are just a little bit, you know, there are phases, you know, and I think Chelsea won the Champions League. they won the Champions League like three or four months after I left and at that point you think about what the next move is and you look at how the recruitment was, then how things worked at that time and maybe some players left during that period perhaps. in terms of recruitment you wanted to bring in maybe some people are like the future in terms of me when I was at Chelsea before I wanted to bring in Declan Rice.

I was like, this kid is going to be the captain of Chelsea for the next 10 years it didn't happen, but anyway, I think in terms of those things, it's hard for me to sit here and dissect other people's work in that period. intermediate. You know, maybe I would have had a The idea that it wasn't my idea because I had already left the club, so maybe when I came in it wasn't, it's really difficult for me to analyze all those movements, you know, I came in what I came in , so you already know. That's, I think it would probably be a bit of a fluke for me to go, they should have done this, you know, yeah, it's in hindsight, yeah, it's like I'm wondering just because I've been a Man United fan and I've seen that happen and I saw obviously Sir Alex Ferguson leaving and then we had these 10 years of what I describe as confusing chaos and I'm trying to figure out almost what the situation is like for a more innocent Alex Ferguson, how we could have done it.

I avoided that, if possible, yeah, I mean, it's such a big number, um, that's hard, right? I don't know enough about Manchester United, but yes. I can understand why after Sir Alex leaves and also key players will probably enter the end of their time during the same time he left to replace that and move forward. I mean, there may have been mistakes and it's not my thing, but I can understand why it feels like a long period for a club the size of Manchester. United, but it just shows you that I think how ruthless and fast-paced this top league is because if you go off the gas, guess in terms of recruitment or whatever, or have a hard time getting back there, people think, oh yeah, we already did that. you know.

If you are Chelsea, you will have played in the Champions League again next year or Arsenal, you will be there as if you still had to work a long time to come back and fight for the League last year with a lot of work and you know that people were criticizing. at the beginning and now you know they worked together and stuck together and recruited very well and now they're ready to go so I don't think we should expect even you to be a Manchester United fan or I have a Chelsea think that the year that's coming is going to be great, like everyone else is moving on too, you know, when you get that call, the interim court, you've just left Everton, yeah, you're out of a job, grandpa's been released. their responsibilities, what goes through your head when they say we want you to come back and take on a management role if I were a flyer on the wall and when that phone call happens, you almost are, yeah, so I know yeah, I mean, I wasn't going to tell the story, but no, I could tell it to you.

I was going to meet you and I called you to apologize. I'm going to become Chelsea manager. That meeting, you know, people came to my house that afternoon. Well, just because you didn't tell me that exactly you said I can't go and I can't tell you. Why then I told you after that, yeah, you told me it's okay, but I'm not an idiot, yeah, okay, okay. inferred maybe it's okay so anyway I want to say no, I think it's probably normal that I consider everything and you know, I probably considered it since first of all it's a club very close to my heart, like I said before, a challenge of work and it was like We had two games against Real Madrid and we had the season to give results.

We had a difficult race, so I was fully aware of that. And I know maybe, as you know, I love a challenge if that challenge had probably been from any other club. that Chelsea probably would have said no. I was very happy to be home as such in that period. I wasn't struggling to get a job in that period. So it was probably a bit of head and heart. I'm not sure. Which probably the heart was probably a little bit more substantial in this case than the head because I guess if you look back we're in that position in hindsight, but you know what my neck was, what my positive results will be, what my negative results will be. at the time it didn't happen against Real Madrid, so probably a lot of people would have bet that you are in that zone at the end of the season and why do you play like a club like Chelsea and that is not the normal thing that the team should do Chelsea. to be playing for something and in the end we played for not so much and of course another reason my motivation went down so I probably could have been a little further ahead in the game, if that would have changed my mind I don't know.

I regret having done it. I went back there if people from the outside want to, you know, criticize or have an opinion from the outside for six or seven weeks of work. I do not have any problem with that. I worked in Chelsea before I worked. in other clubs and you know it is another experience, it was not my favorite experience in my football career. I won't lie, but it's an experience and I've learned from it, not that much, but I mentioned some of the things weren't your favorite experiences, did you enjoy them? To be honest, I enjoyed the first few weeks.

I felt like I was back in Cobham. I know so many people there. I got into the challenge in the middle. I probably started to understand that more. There's a lack of you know what we've talked about, um and then in the last week we've had Manchester City away, Manchester United away at Newcastle, at home, when I ran in and thought, okay, let's finish this week because I could see. that the players were ready for the season to end, you know, it's again something that I got on a human level, it doesn't hurt you to a certain extent, because you love this club a lot and you're a winner, and if you see these players I checkedthey lost.

I knew at school at that age that they had already lost their parents or were in the process and I never went and they were like 14 years old. 29 and I hadn't even thought about it, but you know you regret it, man, and then you move on, you can imagine what it is, you know all the things and I had to address it. 29 is a little different, but those things are like that. I know life kicks you sometimes and that was the biggest kick I think I've had up to this point, you know, and hopefully for a long time, do you talk about your emotions with Christine?

Yes, I do, I think. I'm pretty good at it, she tells me sometimes that I'm pretty closed off, yes, about those things and then that prompts me to talk about it because yes, my girlfriend is very good at it, yes, annoyingly good, yes, no, They are really good. well and I don't mind that she sees me go into the Zone kind of thing sometimes and she's all about what's bothering you oh well, is this, you know, it's probably something a little irrelevant or something, but it's the first answer What will you give because mine is usually nothing, yes, no, that's true, but it's good.

Think because I definitely want to not seem like that, you know, I said like that, keep it up, it's certainly not me, I look at myself like you're, you know, my mother's balance again was what she gave me. That kind of empathy I associate all the empathy that I had with my mother because that's how she was she was always with me, so when you know, I also have a mechanism that keeps her there, but she's definitely inside her and you know, maybe. Children also help with that because when you see your child and his smiles and the innocent nature of him and how they are, I think that also helps you become a little more emotional because you start to care about that more than anything else. stuff. is what has also been something beautiful in recent years.

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I'd love to. I'd love to. I'd love to hear a quick word about huel like you. I know you are a sponsor of this podcast and I am an investor in the company. One of the things I've never really explained is how I came to have a relationship with Huel. One day, in the office, many years ago, a boy walked by. I called Michael and he was wearing a shirt with a heel and the logo caught my attention. I just thought that from a design aesthetic point of view it was really interesting and I asked him what that word meant and why he was wearing that shirt. and he said it's a brand called heal and they make foods that are nutritionally complete and very, very convenient and they have the planet in mind and the next day he left a little bottle of fuel on my desk and from that day on I understood him for complete. because I'm someone who cares enormously about having a nutritionally complete diet, but sometimes about the way my life falls by the wayside, so if there was a really convenient, reliable, reliable way for me to be nutritionally complete in one affordable way, I was all ears, especially if it's a way that is conscious of the planet, give it a chance, try it, let me know what you think, what the future looks like for you, Frank, what do you think?

Don't know. I am very difficult. I know a lot of people might say to me, are you sure you know that? Enter the Panda tree. It's easy to put your feet up. Do what you know. That is it and it certainly is. a manager so that's what I want to do and I'm in no immediate rush to do it, the reality is behind Everton and Chelsea, it's probably time for me to take my time anyway because of the opportunity they might have out there . There won't be a chance, something may come up that I want to look at and say, does it work for me for all purposes?

Because I see your point with Chelsea, did you really need to accept that and the jobs I have? The shoots have been quite challenging and a lot of I'm not saying I'm going to give this, here you go, this is going to be great, so I would try to choose well without sounding too picky because you know I'll want it. work and meanwhile do the things that make me happy, which is being with my family. I like to travel. It's the only thing I really like to spend my money on being outside. When I travel, I want to go. better than at home and if I don't go better than at home I will stay at home and I have a nice house, so you know, we love it, so you know, take advantage of the time to travel a little. with the family and my children I spend more time, my older daughters are now doing levels in gcses and they are close to that and that is good and sometimes you know, I think that is good for me because I am so motivated that I feel like I should work.

It should work and in fact sometimes you can. I am 45 years old and I have done well in my life. Maybe I don't need to work and that's not a bad place to be. I'm lucky not to. I have gratitude for that, so right now it's the gratitude of enjoying it and then trying to work again and what your kind of decision-making framework is going to be when people call and say what's up with this job or what's up with this. How would you decide if the well is worth taking? It's hard to say, but based on my experience, I'd like to make sure.

I would like to have conversations to find out what the job is and I can't, I can't sit here. If they feel that way and they talk to you about being a lion, then they need to feel that way, you know some training, they're going to do this and they're going to work together and they're probably going to take another job that they don't feel aligned on, you know? You should not do that? So I would like to have a conversation and ask: What can I do for you? I have to tell myself clearly that that's the point, but how will they work together and maybe get something that feels a little bit?

I like it and I don't care. I'll work, you know, in the UK, anywhere. I would travel if an opportunity arose. I would definitely prioritize a little bit of family to make sure it's something that works for my family. Ideally, so no. I don't know, I don't know, everyone seems to go there, they do it, they do it. I mean, I'd rather stay in the UK for sure. um and I don't care. I went and lived in Everton for a year. Lives in Derby for a year. I miss my family a lot but you have to make those big decisions hopefully but we'll see, I'll see what comes up, it's hard to decide before it comes whether we sit down. here in 10 years in these chapters the next 10 years the next decade has been a success what does that look like what would have to have happened for it to have been a success in the next decade well, Frank and Ming, 55 years old 55 well, I'm here, so that's good at 55.

I think you know, obviously, that the family should be well and healthy. You understand that more when you hit for me, it was probably him who has health problems and, understanding, maybe you check yourself more on those things. and lifestyle and then hopefully having achieved and been successful as a coach, you know, that's what I want to do. I can't see what it looks like, but I would love to be able to consistently show myself in a job and what I can do, I haven't had that opportunity yet, whether it's been me or whatever, depending on the circumstances, but to do it, I am very determined to do it.

I'm good like that. I'm determined that I like working like this. Anyone who knows me will know that no matter what my career has been, if you put it in front of me, I will tackle it head on and then you will know that I am always trying to improve, so hopefully in 10 years I can show you that there has to be a part of you that wants to go back to Chelsea one day, knowing that if I know you are the way I know you, there has to be a part of you and suddenly it's like you know that one day I will.

I'll be back, it's funny, you know, what are you talking about, you should have taken that job. I guess if you had asked me that before I came back, I might have said no, since it's not like I don't want to come back. Chelsea, but I certainly would have seen myself, no, no, that's the chapters made as a manager, but now that I'm back, I would think about it even more and it's strange, and I think you know the fact that the ownership has changed in Chelsea and It's gone in a different direction. I think it can be something really positive for the club.

I think people might not see it now, but I think they really can. But obviously I have a lot to do to ever be a part of that, but like me. Don't you have to make a clear decision when we play 13 years of Chelsea? I said I will never play anywhere else. I end up on the planet Man City. Some people criticize me for that. Alright. I didn't expect it, but Man City it was. an incredible experience I went to New York City it was an incredible experience when you become a manager you can't say I'm going to be Chelsea manager I'm going to be this you have to take the journey because those are the rules for all of us you know you can be , you know, a success for a moment from Everton, everyone waits, you get up and then you know the next job, what it is and I would do it.

You know I have respect for so many big clubs that You know there are certain clubs I wouldn't manage. I'm not going to declare them because it sounds cheap, but I think it's important. I respect my time, Chelsea Supply and what the club means to me, but I don't see It was like the B100, but like I said, after I got back there, it lit a fire again. I left Chelsea undercover as a manager because I didn't have any fans for my last spell, so I left a little bit. through the back door um in a sense um and this time it felt different and that wasn't a great period but it's still a great club for me so maybe I'm very excited to see what happens next thank you um you did Great job at Derby obviously, then you took Chelsea into the Champions League if I believe they finished fourth that season under a transfer ban and then you kept Everton up on the last day of the season which again most people had written off Everton.

So obviously there was that in-between period. It seems funny because I'm going to be honest, so when we were supposed to have this podcast last time, you called me and said, listen, I can't come. I can't tell you why. um and I put two and two together and thought that was the job. I looked at that and thought, look, I don't know Chelsea 11 or 12 right now, what's the worst that can happen, really what I didn't know. it's the later context, so if I were in your place, uh, in hindsight and we don't have hindsight of the moment, I probably wouldn't have taken the job if I was in that situation, but in foresight I definitely would have. hmm 100 yes, all the reasons why you said that if Manchester United calls me now, I will accept the job, yes, and I have no experience, yes, but I think what we are going to do.

I'm very excited to see what we're going to see next from you and your kind of management career because I mean the experience that you've had and it all counts for a ton, yeah, you know, at all the different levels, in all the different phases, In transitional relegation battles, all that is worth more than many successes and you have had it in a short period of time, so I am really very excited about your next chapter when it comes, thank you. Is there anything you would say to Chelsea fans watching this now? I'd love to know that.

Chelsea fans will be listening to this because they want to know your opinion on what just happened, but they probably want to know your opinion on what you think the future will be like, I suppose, and I also think a lot of them like it. see how you are because since you left we haven't really heard from you in this context, yeah, and I've enjoyed, I've enjoyed, not to speak, it's been nice, um, no, I think for Chelsea fans, I would say that, um ,uh. In terms of what I think will be next. I hear the possession.

I spoke yesterday, it was his first press conference and he spoke very well and talked about bringing a Unity to the training ground and a family feeling and then winning, which is Chelsea. DNA, so I think they have a very good coach in charge and I think the players will definitely develop with their you know, as they develop naturally, they are good players, young players, there has to be some patience to put that together because I think that has to be clear and the owners have a great intention, so I thinkthat as things are resolved it may not be immediately but I think there is a really positive future for the club and I was in it and it was difficult but you know how quickly things can change if you have the right strategy in my terms.

I'm absolutely fine and I would certainly appreciate the support that I had, like I say, from the majority of the fans, would you know that they contact me or call me? at Stanford Bridge and for anyone on the other side of that to wonder why Frank is back at work. I think I may have explained to you some of my involvement today and some of the challenges that I will always take responsibility for. I wouldn't go back to that challenge without saying this might not go well and what my responsibility is, but Chelsea are always a huge club and, as I say, I never came back to Chelsea until three days before.

I went and took the job as caretaker manager and I went to the Liverpool game and ended up having a conversation and it was a difficult period for me, for some reason I left it a secret as I say and moved to Everton and it rekindled that kind of feeling of being back at Stamford Bridge. I have to say I didn't lose it, I just rekindled it and you know it, for Chelsea fans. I know I'm fine. I'm fine. I appreciate your support, including my playing career. It's nice when you finish playing. because your playing career is there and I can remember it with great pleasure because many of the good moments when you are in it are like what comes next and you are always challenging yourself when you finish.

Yeah, you know, that was good, that was good, there were a lot of good things, so there were good moments and I was very grateful to be part of a great club and we will see that you gave Mason Mount his start, yes, I think. He's a great signing for you, yes that's what he was going to say, thanks for that, he's fantastic, why does he live? Why are you leaving Chelsea? He was born, born and raised, right? Yes, I think it is complicated and in the end. I think he has one year left on his contract.

What I will say about Mason is all the things I talked about there, you talk about modern players and how the game has changed. It is a setback to attitude, commitment and quality. You know, the good thing about working with Mason was that he gave you a lot in terms of his effort every day. Anything you asked him to do he was like yes, and somehow he understood it and I think any great player has. having that kind of intelligence and that desire about them, you know, what do you need me to do a little bit?

I have it and I will do it, I will do it again and also the quality, in terms of what he will do. bringing in Manchester United will not just be what Mason brings, he will bring a lot of talent that will just broaden and level, yes I think so and don't get me wrong, the raising of the bar is already there with Bruno Fernandez, but he will do it. Actually, yes, Casimiro, but it will absolutely fit with that if you're trying to build what you're saying, a group mentality of a team and you know that the players are just going to give their all and their talent, what kind of team does it fit into, so I.

I've seen some kind of alternative reactions to that, it's like, oh yeah, Mason, bye amounts, why would you pay that amount for it? A good amount is going to be a fantastic player, my opinion, it's really good to know because I was actually a bit on The Fence regarding I don't really know the character of the man, but I heard from inside Old Trafford that Eric Tanhard Eric Tenhargis really focused on exactly what you said above all else, focused on those core values, so Casimiro. um Bruno, etc., etc., so it's good to know that Mason is, yeah, he's a razor, yeah, why is he leaving?

You know, I'm looking for a different challenge or not. I don't believe it. I think Mason probably would have seen that coming. Two years ago they would stay at Chelsea for much of his career. I just think the circumstances of his contractual situation, um, I know he has a great love for Chelsea, um, but also currently, you know, I think more than even me. players move and I don't think you know if the challenge of moving now has come to that, for Mason personally it's a good challenge for him. I would like to finish that Chelsea because I think he would have been central to but it didn't happen, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest and I have to say this is the longest question I've ever been left with. to anyone else, it's pretty abstract, right?

Well, we're both going to have to figure this out, but the question is will you be surprised when this is broken down to its roots or origin, the word enthusiasm starts with n Theos, which means with God for people who have not identified something that really If you are passionate about it, can you suggest a way to cultivate that enthusiasm? So I think the real question here is along these lines, which is when people for people who haven't identified something that they're really passionate about. about themselves, follow how they do it, wow, thanks to that, yeah, I don't know, this is a good point, actually, because my daughters now, my eldest daughter, will be going to get level results this summer, she It's about college, but she doesn't really know what she wants to do and I actually felt, uh, not bad.

I went to school, obviously, but my Pathways, you know, looking back it was like, fortunately, I didn't have to think about myself and so I have. I didn't get great answers for a modern woman, and I also like, do you know where the way is? What does she want? I ask that question and she's not sure which one is completely understandable, so for me I think for her we are changing it. Maybe it's a passion or not, but my thing, and it probably goes back to my roots, is work ethic. What I'm saying is go out and get into the workplace and meet people because I think about the modern world.

The world with my daughters is so absorbed in social media that they have a lot of answers about life, you know a lot of answers and I'm like, okay, I don't agree with that one, but I'll let it go. I'm okay with that and then I'll start to feel like a dinosaur, but I think they get caught up in that and all the answers are there and they're like okay, we'll do it then and they're like, I don't know. and you go well, well you have all this information, it's the modern world, but what are you going to do?

Go out and get a weekend job if you're going to go to UNI, go out and experience what the real world is like. it's more like this alternate world that you're slightly looking at and then I think someone could turn it on so that that would be mine and again, that's probably the deepest I could go because I don't care where you are. In coffee shops, you could be in this store or that store or whatever, but this is my adult story, obviously, so it was more about going out and meeting people, and I guess probably to bring that question to myself on the way out. out of my comfort zone and leaving Chelsea to go to Manchester City and then living in New York for two years turned on a million things in May and none of them were like big hobbies or anything, it was just like wow, there's a different world , a different culture, people.

They approach things with positivity and energy that I had never seen in England and that changed my approach, so maybe my answer would be to get out of your comfort zone and do something different. I was lucky today to work there, but I lived in probably what for me is possibly the best city in the world and it changed me as a person, so maybe you know that to feel passionate, try something, get out of your comfort zone and you can It may seem like it makes a lot of sense to you and I think it does.

Exactly what I heard there is that often when there are two of us and we are familiar, we will not get the inspiration of what could be our passion if we are looking for it, but rather go to New York or just go out. the world and having experiences can take us there, yeah, Frank, thank you so much for your time today and thank you for doing this because I mean like you, now you're a man of your word because we're going to do this last thing. time and you could easily not have done it, but you messaged me and said I want to do it again because I said I would um and again, that's just another example of how you're a class act throughout the whole telling process last time. because you have the job in Chelsea and then you come back.

You have been an absolute class act. You are a man where no one can question your integrity and your principles and, on top of that, I see a man who is. Incredibly willing to work and do well at anything he applies himself to and that is why you have led this fantastic career both as a professional football player and as a coach. I think you're right halfway there and there's this. A whole new season as you come along, you know in 45 years you'll be 90. And I'm so excited to see how that story plays out because of all the wisdom you've gained over the last 45, so thank you for being an inspiration to me for giving me so many good memories in football as an England player and less so as a Chelsea player because you guys were so good during that period so, but it's a real honor to meet you and um yeah. thank you for all your wisdom, thank you so much, if you've been listening to this podcast for the last few months you'll know that we're sponsored and supported by Airbnb, but I'm surprised how many people don't realize that.

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