Ex-CIA officer says he's astonished by Putin's visit to North Korea

Russian President Vladimir Putin and North Korean representative Kim Jong Un have just signed this document in Pyongyang. They pledge to help each other if their countries are attacked. You can see Putin's greeting there in Pyongyang over the last day, with thousands of cheering fans and signs saying: Welcome Putin with us now, CNN contributor, former Moscow bureau chief and adjunct professor at Georgetown University , Jill Dougherty and CNN. Steve Hall, national security analyst and former head of the CIA's Russia operation. Jill, for a few years you have been not only in Russia but also in North Korea. What is important here is this document, the language of the agreement or rather the spectacle surrounding it, Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un trying to show that they could not be closer.

I think it's both. No doubt. I mean, we have to look at the fine print. From what I can see now, they are saying mutual aid in case of aggression against one of the parties. So what does mutual aid mean? You know, does that mean that let's say North Korea fires a missile at the United States, and then the United States retaliates in some way and Russia attacks the United States? What specifically is Putin talking about in some cases? He doesn't want to define it publicly because that implicit and really explicit but implicit threat is out there.

And that's what Putin wants to do. But then this big spectacle, I mean, I'm really, I guess, amazed by the fact that, however, Putin is starting to sound like Kim Jong Un, he's using some of the same rhetoric, you know, this hegemonic imperialist West. A lot of this has to do with the United States and the big focus is Ukraine, the total transformation of Russia because of this war that Putin started. And you are seeing the results here. Yes. And, Steve, to that point, there are some people who see Putin going to North Korea. Putin may be a bit pleading at this point.

It is a sign of weakness. Some say what do you see? I share Jill's complete astonishment that we've reached the point where a former superpower like Russia used to be a huge geopolitical problem when it was actually the Soviet Union. It's much more like North Korea than, say, China, which these days is actually a world power with the size of its economy and its long-term interests. So yeah, going hat in hand to the North Koreans so they can get better weapons to try to fight this war they started with Ukraine is really awesome. The other thing that is surprising is that both countries say they signed this agreement in self-defense.

So, I mean, last time I checked, when was North Korea or Russia attacked? In reality, it has certainly been in the case of Russia, the other way around, or they have been attacking their neighbors, whether it's Ukraine or Georgia in the past or whatever, military action. So it's a little interesting that they both say that we are so concerned about our defensive posture that we have to have some kind of treaty. It's really interesting. And Jill, whether it's weakness or not, how much weakness or strength is there here, how does the United States navigate this landscape that we're seeing here?

Of the two men? Oh, I think the most important thing will be to see what's behind the scenes. So what are they going to agree on? Because obviously, you know, we know what Putin wants, which is, you know, ammunition, missiles, etc. for Ukraine. But I think what really worries the United States is what does North Korea want from Russia? And we know that it is definitely high-tech and would be used for military purposes in the air, on land and at sea. And that has to worry the United States, there is no doubt. So what they're trying to figure out is how far does this go?

What will Putin give North Korea that could threaten the United States, let alone Asia? Yes. Because, Steve, people may not remember it right now. For a long time, Russia agreed to try to prevent North Korea from becoming a nuclear power, with all those international agreements to limit them. Russia was part of that. It doesn't seem like it will be very operational in the future. Oh, no, no, no, I mean, this is another oops! Sorry Steve. I'm sorry, Joe. Yes. No. With the signing of this agreement, the relationship completely changes, at the regional level and certainly with Russia.

But I think it's also an interesting opportunity because, you know, China provides the vast majority. I believe the figure is 90% of North Korea's needs. North Korea has now put itself in the position of providing what Russia needs. In other words, ammunition for the war against Ukraine. So China is in this position where it can really exert significant influence over Russia and North Korea, something that I think the West will probably be considering, because China, of course, has much broader goals, some of which depend on solid market relations, at least economic relations with the United States and Europe.

So it could be that the United States and Europe could go to China and say, look, you have to have a say here because these guys look a little strange. Still. Yes. I think if you look at this relationship, one of the really important parties is Russia, if you look at North Korea, which is a rogue state, but in the context of other countries that can take advantage, they have We have Iran around here , China over here. Although I would say China is different, you know, a more sophisticated relationship, but definitely Iran, North Korea, all of them, to coin a phrase, are not good tricks in the world that they will take advantage of to create difficulties for the United States.

And if they can do it individually, they are not as powerful. But combined, they could create a lot of problems for the United States. And this is one of the problems. I think that, once again, we return to Ukraine. I think Russia, Putin, is doing this because he is angry that the United States is allowing Ukraine to use weapons to attack the Russian mainland. He said, I'm going to retaliate, and I think we're watching that right now. Look, and I think the international diplomatic game board right now is being shuffled in a way that we haven't seen in a long, long time.

Jill, Steve Hall, it's great to have you both here this morning. Thanks for explaining it so well. Let's get some perspective on this meeting and now we're joined by Ellen Kim. She is deputy director of the Korea chair at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and she is also a senior fellow there. Elena, it's good to have you. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. So, this new partnership that was signed between the two leaders promised to help each other if either nation is attacked. Putin calls it a revolutionary agreement. We don't have many details on what this means exactly.

What is your opinion? Like you said, we just found out about it. So there's not much to know about the details yet. And I think both countries haven't really published the text. But both countries were expected to sign their comprehensive strategic partnership. And now this comprehensive partnership will include reviving the obligation they had under the old treaty of alliance. The friendship agreement that the two countries signed in 2000 did not have a clause on automatic military integration, but this time, if you think it looks like that, they actually include that clause, which is huge and raises a lot of alarm. in Washington, Seoul and had enormous implications for security on the Korean Peninsula.

What kind of implications? I mean, possible troops on the ground, you know, by North Korean troops in Ukraine and vice versa. I don't think that's the case yet. but I think it means that North Korea has China and Russia as security partners. And not to mention they have nuclear weapons. I don't think North Korea is going to send its army to Russia to fight Russia's war in Ukraine. I don't think we're there yet. But today, with the agreement that both countries reached, I think this is a great victory for the North Korean leader, more than for Putin.

So who wins with bigger hair? Well, I think it goes both ways. This is from Putin, I mean, like you said, this is Putin's first time

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ing World Korea in 24 years. And that really indicates the enormous importance that Putin places on it. About his relationship with the North Korean leader. due to the war in Ukraine. Putin wants more support in missiles and ammunition from North Korea. So this is something Putin really needs right now. And I think this might have happened between the two leaders when they met. North Korea has reportedly been sending munitions to Russia since its invasion of Ukraine, although that has been denied by both North Korea and Russia.

So we know that Putin is there obviously to ask for more military assistance in terms of hardware from North Korea. So what does North Korea gain from this? Plus, you know, I mean, Kim Jong Un must feel very lonely. It has not been

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ed by a foreign leader in many years since the pandemic. What is the concern about Russia transferring military technology to North Korea? And how likely is that? So, first of all, this bilateral cooperative relationship between North Korea and Russia has not been a one-way street. North Korea, I mean, Russia has been reciprocating North Korea's military support by sending North Korea food and oil that the country so desperately needs in the UN Security Council.

Russia has been defending North Korea whenever North Korea carried out missile tests in violation of multiple solutions led by the US Council and the EU. So the point is that there is a mutually beneficial relationship between these two countries. And we are seeing that with Putin's visit today. And right now there is great concern in Seoul and Washington about the possible transfer of weapons by Russia, advanced military technology such as a nuclear submarine or satellites or intercontinental ballistic missiles that could accelerate North Korea's weapons program.