Dapper Dan on his unique path to fashion royalty | Pretty Big Deal with Ashley Graham

Hello everyone, I'm Ashley Graham and this is very important, where trust is key. In each episode, I get to pick the brains of brilliant, inspiring, honest, very important friends new and old. Today we are talking to the icon of

fashion

and Harlem. legend Dabra Dan dab has returned to the mainstream, reopened her Harlem Atelier and taken her rightful seat at the

fashion

industry table. the elegant dan is in the house. Thank you very much for being here. Well, I'm happy to be around you, let me. I tell you something really surprising. I'm not used to this because I've been living in a cocoon for 20 years.

You know I'm a real product in my community, so just the last four years, like five years, since I came out of the underground I've never had the opportunity to engage with people and I'm telling you now my only relationship with people that I'm getting to know it now it's through books mmm you know, other than that when I'm in Harlem. I'm talking about Harlem stuff and I'm always there, so everything that's inside me and that's outside of that I had to get from books and now to get real life, people like it for less since that I came out of hiding, everyone, my son, I verify this. everyone who came and interviewed me when we finished, I interviewed them because I couldn't understand what it was that they found so interesting about me, in fact, I did a little research.

I was looking the other day and I saw that it hurts, yes. So I'm seeing what people are saying about me and I came across this book and the title of the book is remixing in the classroom a form of this new way of learning correctly and that's why this professor from Columbia University School of Music and he teaches the graduate music course and I came across the book and the first chapter of the book is that he shows graduate students how to learn based on what he learned about me from reading the New Yorker article from when I came out from the underground.

I say I have to go. I see this guy and I see what he's talking about, so I go to Columbia University and he's sitting in one of his classes, you know, and we talk and I tell him I never realized what I do, he says what you did, the reason. You didn't realize, he says, because of what you did, people don't think about it while they're doing it and that's when they came to me. I told them, oh, so that's why everyone, the way I live through necessity is what they're now teaching as an option and that's why they say the open classroom is a new way of learning and the process is to learning oneself, yeah, from one bag of clothes to the next, which brings me to the Met, oh my God, we had a ball, oh, okay, for everyone who's listening or watching.

I want us to describe the mat to you because not everyone has the opportunity to go and you've been twice, yes, I've been twice and I've been three times and I remember it. Last year when we met, I made sure to say where Deb is. Everything's fine, you're fine, but this year we were able to go together. Wow, that was amazing. I know let me tell you. Oh, you were so kind that I wasn't used to. Do you know what you're talking about? You know, you called and called, you called and invited me like a true gentleman, yes, but that's the second time I've spoken, the first time, yes, we met, I went and you called me. from the party that was good hello the one I was at I was in a strange land but I know my first time with the mat I was also in a strange land and I know what it feels like to go to the mat yeah and that's why I wanted to make sure that you were taking care of the mess sealed the

deal

for me in terms of fashion because they are two people I wanted to meet Andre Leon Talley mm-hmm and of course the queen Anna Wintour, the queen if I can be recognized by the king, the Queen That seals the

deal

, you know, and I was wrong the first time.

I was so nervous that I didn't come in through the right door, so I couldn't shake his hand, wait, so you didn't go up the stairs. win so you meet the paparazzi everywhere that's what happens when you get to the Met there's a huge red carpet there's paparazzi on both sides there's people who want to interview you and it's a little intimidating but there's always someone who's supposed to guide you through from the actual museum and I know that people are sometimes redirected correctly, so the first time I walked up the stairs and I was out of breath, I was sweating out of breath and then boom, everyone is there to greet you.

The committee and I thought it was terrible, so maybe it's better that you didn't meet them the first time, yeah, but no, but the amazing thing was getting down the red carpet before you even knew you got to the paparazzi and I'm standing there and it's just me and Michael Bhusari, CEO of Gucci, oh yeah, and that's very important to me, yeah, so I'm looking around at the card. The Asians are back there, Madonna is there, no, I'm saying, wait a minute, right? in the right line, no, that was before she even got to Judea paparazi, it was like she was taking her back.

I could not believe what was happening. You know, being at the Met is a big deal, yeah, it was a big deal to be a part of. from the Met and you had a table and you dressed everyone at the table, what it was like to finally be recognized by the fashion industry, that they really saw you for who you were and invited you in. I'm still not over all of that and I can't even describe it to my friends, so outside of what we know, but you know what the great part of all of that is that made me realize it's just that I didn't know how restricted it looked. the invitation mmm.

I don't want to mention names without there being some notable names that I thought might come to a table. Oh, you wanted to put nothing on your table, not even necessarily on my table. It had two people. I want to go to Piedmont. You know I like it. that, but just the way that I learned the things that I learned about, you know, Hadi, it's a very exclusive party, yeah, yeah, I mean, they're established people in the industry, so I thought, wow, this is really important. I know that's who's who's who the show is and it's an all night event and then you move on to the after parties and that all becomes a thing too but what I didn't realize and what I didn't realize account until I did it All my DAP research is that when I came in to design the dress with you, you gave me full control over the design of the dress and this is really who you are, who you have been since the 80s, you have never told anyone . what to wear you've always asked people what you want to wear yeah I walked in and showed you a picture of Rihanna in a little tuxedo jacket.

I said I want to do something like this and you said okay, great, but how are we going to do it? I went deaf when I started choosing fabrics and everything, how has your process changed or evolved over the years? Is this really how you work? Fashion in relation to Fine Arts has a different twist. I see that fashion is primarily something that is transformative, okay, and to allow myself the luxury of being transformative, not just transformative coming from me, but being able to transform the people who wear a dress because I know that every experience I'm reliving is never the first time. that I've been able to get dressed and you have those feelings, so it's like you know that one day you had a great high and you keep reaching that high so that everyone who comes knows that I have the opportunity to transform, that's the latest in fashion, right ? and not only that it keeps you relevant because you all know who's dressing and then I give you something like say for us is what I gave you.

I'll let you play with your ideas mm-hmm and then I'll show you my ideas, see how that came to life? I mean it was a real collaboration, yes exactly, and for those of you at home, I mean, I feel like I could have been one of the best dressed. The comments on that are very exciting, yes, really, oh no, I would just tell you that it is my favorite matte look always yes perfect the beauty of it all is that your opinion was like a reflection of yourself yes yes it makes the person that uses your appearance feels even more confident yes, I chose I was there the other day and we just chose for everyone the UH strange the Hobby strange yes and she was so excited that she says I have never been able to do this.

I've never been able to come and wear something based on me and what I wanted. You know, and I love it. I love it, I think I would like to see many of the young designers who come have so much participation that day. I think our designers have a tendency to be too into themselves, we need them to be creative and emanate these ideas. the self, but we also need some to embrace it, you know, what I'm saying, and I think that had a lot to do with certain brands that have been around forever losing connection with the people they serve, you know, but yes, I think. that's what kept me relevant over the years, I think so.

I mean, you've transcended so many different cultures and styles and you just stuck with it and now, speaking of the creative process, I want to talk about how you actually got there. here today and there is a quote in your memoir that I love and that is I was having trouble putting my life together so God made me a tailor yes exactly tell us about that I found the secret the real secret of life is not just the ability to make yourself happy , but being able to infuse happiness into the world and fashion allowed me to do that.

I remember when I was on the street and running through the streets in the subculture and in the drug culture and they had a sweet right to drugs and in this sweet drug it took a lot of young people out of the community with the sale of drugs, but this she was a young girl who never sold drugs properly and she refused to do it and everyone in her circle did it and I went up to I say wow, they took everyone, they took all your friends, she was 15 and she told me that It's what happens to people who make money off other people's sorrows, that resonated with me and I talk about it in the book which is so amazing. you know, so I said: if I ever do something I want to do, I want to do something like fashion through fashion.

I can make people feel good about themselves, which is the opposite of what I've seen, that's why I'm so happy about everything I'm doing now, it's the opposite of what I felt; I mean just being on this side and that's why I feel like anyone who walks into your Atelier you make them feel like family immediately, you automatically have a family working. with you you have family that you have people working with you that aren't family that feel like their family, yeah, and then you're automatically family when you walk in, I mean it's a sense of community, that's how you were raised too. just having a sense of community around you leave it, you know, today it's the community, but I grew up in Harlem, that was the village, you know, you hear people say it takes a village, yeah, it takes a village like I think. than Martin Luther King. was one who says that 11 o'clock on Sunday morning was the most segregated time in America and the reason he said no and the relationship to racism is that at 11 o'clock on Sunday morning in Harlem you see everyone, I mean practically everyone leaving their houses. going to the different churches was so beautiful man now you go home today we have these huge people who visited the house please take note of these huge churches we have these churches were full of people worshiping that is the hole I grew up in Villain teachers , so I'm used to that kind of community mm-hmm, you know, I'm used to that village atmosphere and I never allowed myself to not have that, so even now that I have this luxurious stone house, you will find me standing there. on the corner and in front of my store I meet people in my community, the average person in my community cannot afford the luxury things that I have had, but I want them to know that I am part of them, that is why Look at me standing on the corner greeting people and talking to people, that's the part of how I think the community should be and how the community that raised me an open door and an open hand, yeah, now we see Dan elegant like this dress of all the days, but what was it? your style as before you stood out in the shop window creating everyone what was my style yes, even in the 70s what was your style what you see today is a modification of how my style was now back then you know I like it What you like Alexandra likes her and her style because it's always what we did, yeah, if there's one thing that embodies our culture and how we relate to the traditional look, and I did a lot of research on this, it's the zoot suit, what does that look like? the zoot suit is fine, the zoot suit is very important because it is a reflection of our culture, and in the Zeus suits today it is the way I have done it with the main brands, the way irie remixes the main brands in the great ballrooms.

Then when I was dancing, the bulbs were all dancing, but the clothes they were wearing were not suitable for dancing, so they used to tie the back of their pants and they were tied there and then the tailor started saying, let's just do the Suit like that, so they designed a zoot suit that fit well with the way they danced. This combination of music took place with Dizzy Gillespie and all the big jazz noises just came to Cuba and developed this music with the Afro-Cubans, that Afro-Cuban cell. I called Afro-Cuban jazz, so the Cubans picked up the zoot suits and the Cubans took it to Mexico, so the Mexicans picked it upInclusion has to be, it has to happen, it's inevitable, so between the two of them they led the charge to change everything, you know, so I'm so I was very happy I'm very happy for the deal I'm happy for you I think I mean when you walk in and you see Gucci everywhere in your checkout, yeah, it's a telltale sign that they're in a real collaboration with you like Well, yeah, you talked in your memoir about this one time that made me cry because maybe it's because I'm hormonal in this mm-hm moment, but it was at a time when you and your dad went shopping for suits oh yes, I told you you can read.

Yes, that is the most powerful moment of my life. You know, I really had to reflect on it and I constantly reflect on this. I've never been a kid when that wasn't relevant. Who I'm talking to, who I meet, who accompanies me everywhere. I remember watching my dad come out of himself, you know, and he just said he's really good, so that was like and right after reconstruction, American reconstruction, and he. It came up and we never saw it in his family and I couldn't understand, like they did, how you leave home at 12 years old. People really need to read to understand that my father left home when he was 12, but my father came up in 1910 when he was 12, that was right during Reconstruction when African Americans were moving away because you know, the term racial wall in the The Ku Klux Klan is our thing, it's coming up north, so those were the strongest people they loved, but that was the typical one. thing that people of color go with that agent, go out, you know, but he just wanted to be able to go to the third grade on his left, so when he gets up, he teaches himself to read, you know some and he did a good job ,

pretty

good job. and then we're going to buy a suit someday, right, and it will be on credit.

I took the contractors, they let me see the inspection of the car. I took the contract and I read it and at the time I was in eighth grade, you know? new mathematical equation or find out how much I was going to have to pay I said dad, don't buy from this man, it will cost three times, come on, so we will leave the store and go down the stairs to the right and my father starts me half weight going down and tears flowing of his eyes and he said boy, don't you know you can read?

You say boy, you can read you know and at that time I didn't understand what he meant but as I changed What I changed my life right after that baby I remember what he said and I read my way out of every trouble I got into I have put I read my way into fashion. I read my way into the game. Read. I didn't leave anything. Stop me for whatever I learned. I didn't have a book. Know. I think he's so extraordinary listening to you and all the interviews I've heard and the memoirs I've read. You are a true educator. it's about educating yourself knowing your history knowing where you come from it's good to know what you're walking into wants to know about people everything I've never done recreational reading I don't even know what that is I always did directional reading what it is what I need to know what books I have to read to take away and I've been in religious politics and everything is relevant and you see you're on The Breakfast Club.

I needed to be able to know these things. to relate to this generation what this association with me at guchi meant you know how you boycott you know how you boycott a brand and you get nothing you walk away from a brand with nothing historically that has never happened people of color they have never boycotted and with no results you know what I'm saying, and on top of that, the boycott wasn't valid anyway, well, that's why I'm glad you implemented the system that you did, what are you doing now and you're talking about inclusion and diversity, yeah , yes, inclusion and it is a system that you want to create and bring to other fashion brands, yes, it is a break for all fashion brands, I am going to spearhead that and thanks to Marco and Alexandra we are doing that today, you know, and This is like an I wish, I wish I could encourage people to read, young people to read.

This is an argument that goes back to this history between Du Bois. Frederick Douglass, you know, and at first he thinks he's a man, you know that well. I'm just saying your true inspiration is young, old, black, white, everyone in between, so thank you very much. What's next for Dapper Dan? What I would like to see now is for people to watch. in fashion in a different way, fashion to transform not just individuals but communities, and I think that's what's so significant, whether intentional or not, when Alexandria incorporated all these ideas from around the world, You know, that validates who we all are, we should all take advantage of that. energy and letting everyone know that we are diverse, you know, but even though we are diverse, we can also be inclusive and that's the position that I want to leave, that's the direction that I want to go, okay, so it's quite something important that I like it.

I have to do one last thing to close everything and that is you fill in the blank okay you're done yeah okay fill in the blank I almost always take public transportation okay what's the most important lesson What you've learned in the last year to be on I take care of my social media myself and no one else, what's the biggest deal you've made? My association with Gucci. Hey, and finally, you're obviously a big deal mm-hmm, but what's a big deal to you? The deal for me is to be able to come to an agreement that doesn't allow me to create generational wealth for my family um it's about legacy and it's about generational wealth which for Dan, thank you very much, okay, yeah, I really appreciate your time.

Oh, for the newborn now yes, you can, oh my God, oh, this is so cute, okay, everyone listen up. I have a table for Dan for the Gucci box in my hand and it's for the little baby, oh my gosh, yes this is such a perfect onesie, thank you. Thank you very much, incredible in many ways. I'm here, thank you. I can't wait to put my baby in this well. I hope you come to the baby shower, of course. Okay, maybe it will be in November. You, Jelani and the entire Deborah family. Dan, thank you so much and everyone at home we want you guys to be a part of the conversation so make sure you go to the

pretty

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