2020 Subaru Outback; Consumer Reports’ Reliability Survey Results | Talking Cars #229

Hello Talking Cars fans. We will be filming an episode of the podcast live at the 2019 Los Angeles Auto Show on Friday, November 22 between 10:00 a.m. and 7:00 p.m. m. and noon, and we would love to have you in our audience. To join us, email talk

cars

@

consumer

.org by Friday, November 15 and let us know if you'd like to attend. You'll be able to ask our experts questions, and as a special benefit, you'll receive free admission to the Los Angeles Auto Show. All you have to do is get to the Los Angeles Convention Center. Tickets are awarded on a first-come, first-served basis, so email us today.

We would love to see you there. We conclude our testing of the

2020

Subaru Outback and discuss what we found. We also talked about Consumer Reports' new automotive

reliability

survey

s. And we answer audience questions, including why some auto companies just can't seem to figure out the keys to good

reliability

. Next on Talking Cars. Hello, welcome back. I'm Mike Quincy. I'm Jon Linkov. I'm Gabe Shenhar. So this is one of our favorite times of year because Consumer Reports' annual automotive reliability

survey

is out. This survey is among the largest of its kind. We collect data from hundreds of thousands of CR members.

And perhaps the best news is that

consumer

s don't have to pay a lot to buy a reliable car. But Gabe, maybe you could explain a little bit about why this survey is so important. For those who don't know, every year we ask our members to fill out an experience questionnaire about their

cars

. And we get a lot of... a large sample size. And we asked them through 17 points, starting with engine problems, transmission problems, powertrain, electronics, electrical equipment, infotainment, you name it. And we get a really clear picture of the reliability of the cars, and that's an important tool for a consumer to decide on a new car.

And we're pretty unique in that. Yes, this is definitely one of the things that separates Consumer Reports from many publishers. And Jon, you have a lot of really interesting thoughts about the new survey, including how new submissions may be a problem. What's our advice for people looking to buy a redesigned car for the first year? - Yes, this year one of the unique things we do is we did more cross-pollination analysis. So we looked at previous surveys of how the first-year models performed and the model just before a generation changeover, and then looked at this survey to see how they were different.

And one of the things that the survey allowed us to reinforce is the advice not to buy the first year of a new model never seen before or the first year of a redesigned model. That's why they tend to have more teething pains. By initial pains I mean they only have the growing pains; Again, the same, the pain, but it is the first time they have carried out the production process for that vehicle. They are putting in completely new pieces. They have suppliers that make new parts and that's where they have problems. That's what you see.

And in general no major problems are seen. Gone are the days of the engine falling out while you were driving, so to speak. But it's all about squeaks and rattles, but it's also related to software and infotainment. So a lot of those problems are showing up in modern cars, today's cars. It's much better to wait a couple of years - you love that new X, Y, Z vehicle that comes out. Looks great. It has all the power you want. It has the infotainment. You want to be the first person on your block. You want to be the first person on the block, but you know what?

Be the fourth person on your block. Or if you're really looking for a good deal, buy the previous generation, the model they just discontinued. There will be some on the dealer lot. It will have a lot of good features, maybe not all the great new features, but the end of the model is generally the most reliable of all. They have solved all the problems. Then they start focusing on the new car. That's the one to buy. And they are going to have a discount because they want to get them off the lot. But it's kind of a conundrum because new cars are ushering in newer technology, and older cars may have older technology, but they're more reliable.

So this is kind of interesting...maybe let's call it a dilemma that car buyers face. When considering all the factors that lead to a purchasing decision, this should be one of the factors. Well, and another thing to think about: and these are not vehicles that we're giving reliability data on here, but if you think about an existing model like the Audi Q7, it's been available for a few years. Then they introduced the Q8. It's a little smaller, a little faster, but Audi is taking some of the elements of that car, that vehicle - the interior, the infotainment system, some of the exterior look - and it's putting the Q7 as a refreshing element. . .

Therefore, you can get new technology as a car ages because they receive updates from other similar models. They may add some equipment. So you're not necessarily going to get, oh my gosh, I'm going to get a model that was built in 2000, designed in 1993 if I buy it today. It's not exactly like you're going to get an older model, but that's what it is. You're not going to get the cutting edge. And sometimes, like when buying a cell phone or whatever you're buying, you need software updates. You need this. You need that. Go with the old reliable.

It's a safer bet. It will save you money on the dealer lot and save you headaches, time and money returning it for service. So the point about software updates is really important because it's not just about not being able to listen to the radio. It's the software that controls the navigation system and the climate system and maybe even more important things. Engine management system, braking system, in some cars, suspension. It's not just, like you said, about the things you touch. It's everything behind the vehicle that you expect to keep it running. Good. And it rules everything.

And so cars have become maybe even a little less hardware and more software these days. Yes. So listen, visit consumer

reports

.org. There are many more reliability stories we have up there. This will truly be the best tool you can use when purchasing a new or used car. And that brings us to the next section, which is the one we will present this week. We have summarized the test

results

of the Subaru Outback. We know that this model is particularly popular with many of our members. And Gabe, I was thinking about this. The Outback was originally introduced in the early '90s.

And I was thinking, you've probably tried every one of them. Oh, you bet. Yes, it started out as a version of the Subaru Legacy pickup truck and then evolved over the years. And it gained ride height, and more or less became this. Do you remember the uncola? The uncola, the 7UP. Exactly. So the Outback is like the non-SUV. It's a raised wagon, but over the years it's gained a huge cult following. Everyone who likes to camp and everyone in New England, Colorado, Alaska, and the Pacific Northwest is in love with the

outback

. And so, the

2020

model, we have finished testing it.

What are your impressions? So Subarus are never about bragging. They are very sensible and very functional cars, and the new Outback does not stray from this formula. But it was moved to this new Subaru platform. It is a very solid structure. The car feels like it drives wonderfully. It beats some luxury cars that cost $100,000. The standard engine gets the job done, but it's not very exciting. But if you get the XT, which has the 2.4-liter turbo, that really transforms the car and gives you this really effortless acceleration. There are also some nice interior touches that Subaru has learned from its customers over the years, like the built-in crossbars that fold down and are always with the car.

So it's a really nice type of car. It's definitely a good redesign, many steps forward. Jon, you drove it last night. You also have kids who are younger than Gabe's and mine. Can you imagine a family your size living with a vehicle like this? Yes, as a cyclist, I love roof bars that fold in and out because you can attach the crossbar. So you can carry your kayak. You could bring your skis. You can bring your bike or whatever. Yes, it is quite spacious for children. My children are almost 8 and 10 years old. There's plenty of room for them, plenty of room to run Costco with them.

I'm not going to buy all the toilet paper or paper towels, but they fit most things. Driving it is really refreshing in some ways because the dashboard is so... I mean, it's almost like sitting at this table. This is the top of the board. If you're crashing into... you really have no excuse... I mean, some people might... but worry about crashing the front of the car into something because you can see everything, unlike a lot of vehicles where you're sitting very low and the dash high and you have no idea where the front of the car is.

I'm not in love with their infotainment system. It's about tall, about this wide, and it looks like a morning news show where it has the weather up there and CarPlay here, and then it has radio here, and you can swipe, and you go here to see the preset. It's not that his old man can't get along with technology. It's just that there's a lot going on that I think could be simplified, that you don't have to have it all there. You can't have everything you want in one place. So get rid of some of that. Get rid of weather and other things at the top.

I don't need to see xDrive status and stuff like that. You can change that. Yes, but there are so many things there. And yes, you can put more tiles on the home screen: app tiles on the home screen and so on. It's just very busy and sometimes it's hard to press little buttons when you're in, say, Waze on CarPlay. Well, and your basic day-to-day operations... I mean, this morning in Connecticut it was about 17 degrees. So I thought, "Okay, I really want to put the seat heating on." Subaru is known for being a cold weather car. Seat heating is very important in areas like this.

And you have to press the Seat Warmer button, wait for the graph to appear, and then choose the level you want, and you can tap, tap, tap. And all that time, your eyes aren't on the road. Well, it was interesting. I mean, last night the car was cold outside and the screen was slow to respond. And I miss the toggle switch. Sometimes there's a switch for something in some regions that you can use a lot, but they... Yeah, they shot themselves in the foot a little bit with the control system. It is mainly related to the climatic function.

But the infotainment is quite simple. It is agile and works well. It's just that, to me, there's too much going on. I would like to see a little more of the previous generation, a little more towards that than going all the giant Tesla screen. However, I think overall there isn't much we don't like about this car: the infotainment system, some of the controls, but a lot of the standard safety equipment that comes with this car. I think the Outback is very easy to recommend to people. Gabe, you mentioned that before. I call it like the anti-SUV.

It's an all-weather vehicle, almost not all-terrain, but it's for those people who want to drive a car but don't want to be in a truck. They don't want something huge. And it is, again, an easy model to recommend. It's like a mature Forester estate. You want to spend a little more, but you still have room. It still has the ride height. know And it has, again, good visibility around it. It's an easy car... it's easy to live with. It has the proportions of a cart. That means it's longer and narrower, so it can really work well for them.

If you're riding a bike with the front wheel intact, that works. So the Outback is actually a very good alternative to a small SUV with a standard engine and, if you get the turbo engine, even a competitor to a mid-size SUV around 30 years old. So listen, visit consumer

reports

.org for complete Subaru Outback test

results

. And that brings us to the next section of this incredible podcast. It's where we take your questions. We love the text questions, all the video questions. Keep them coming, [email protected]. That's [email protected]. Now the first question we ask ourselves is about reliability.

Hey, look at that. What a coincidence. So Erick writes: "I was recently watching a series about how dream cars are made and I noticed that almost all cars are designed, manufactured and checked for quality in a very similar way. They all have very precise procedures with computers and robotics and test their cars before shipping them. So why are some manufacturers behind onreliability?" Great question and certainly pertinent to what's going on in the news these days. So Gabe, what can you... how can you shed light on this? It seems like some car companies just can't figure out the keys to reliability ?Just dream cars.

It is important to understand what is reliability and what is not. For us, reliability is not just about the initial quality when the car leaves the factory and it is checked for everything. It works. It's the experience with the car and various problems with cars that arise over time. So, things might work, but then there might be some creaking of the body, cracks in the windows, glitches in the infotainment system. and all that. So this is the kind of thing that can really affect car ownership and give you a big headache. And Jon, you've written a lot about this and it certainly seems like models like Cadillac, Alfa Romeo, Fiat, year after year, they are practically at the bottom level.

But even the models, even the manufacturers that we used to count on, were almost like lights. Our aces like Honda and Acura are having problems. Sometimes it will be a smaller manufacturer that will soar and then fall because they share many components. It works very well. Brilliant. They all rise with the tides, but many of them will go down if there is a problem with that. That's one way you see some fluctuations. If I had the exact answer as to why, I would be a pretty rich man. I would be out there consulting. You would be a consultant.

You see, whether it's the build process, suppliers, or cost, everyone has a captured test fleet. Everyone puts 100,000 miles on it, but it could be part of the assembly process when it ramps up and they're pumping out a lot of vehicles. This could be a changing part on the part of the supplier, who had a problem with it. Then the software rears its head. I mean, my goodness, Apple's new software for iPhone (iOS has been problematic for the last two years) you're constantly making updates lately. Then unforeseen things arise. There are some perennial plants. And also some of the larger manufacturers have a much larger and more varied product line to worry about.

And many times it is not a question of assembly or manufacturing. It is part of the entire design process and starts at a very early stage: the components you choose, whether you rely on untested components or introduce completely new technologies, a new engine, a new transmission, a new information system and entertainment. In a new car, that's a sure recipe for reliability issues rather than relying on a few proven components. Excellent. So you're saying to go back and buy the latest previous generation model instead of the new one. Eric, thanks for the question. Very good moment in terms of reliability.

Next up is Michael from Canada who wants to know why some of the world's cars aren't sold in North America. "I travel regularly to developing countries and the only vehicle I see frequently is the Toyota Hilux pickup truck. It seems to be very popular and has almost legendary reliability. If Americans are so crazy about pickup trucks and SUVs, why does Toyota never have you brought this truck to North America?" Now, John, I can travel internationally from time to time. The kids and the cost maybe cut it down a bit. But certainly, Gabe... It's been a while. --Perhaps you are the most international person at this table right now.

So about the Toyota Hilux. You've seen it abroad. Why doesn't Toyota bring it? The Toyota Hilux and the Tacoma are somewhat related. The Tacoma is designed to be more suitable for the American market. It's a little wider. It has a V6 engine. The Hilux, on the other hand, is more designed for Third World countries, developing countries, and the rest of the world where pickup trucks are used for the actual tasks that pickup trucks are used for. Therefore, they have a greater payload capacity. The Hilux comes with diesel engines. It is a little narrower so it can fit in alleys and tighter spaces.

So they are related, but multinational corporations like Toyota use shared components and build their cars like LEGO, and they can act locally and rely on their vast global resources and have the right product for each region of the world. And different cars require different regulations: DOT for US and things like that. And sometimes car companies may not feel it's worth jumping through hoops to get a car regulated for the U.S. market. Yes, that is a very fair point. Crash tests are expensive. Who knows what they would have to do to modify the car to even meet crash test standards in the United States.

So they have their reasons. As Gabe said, multinational corporations certainly have their reasons for not doing so. It's interesting. However, when we travel, we can see these vehicles that we can't see in the United States. Thanks for your question. Excellent. Finally, we have time for one more. We have a question from Greg, who is looking for an affordable commuter car with a manual transmission. Greg writes: "I would like a new car specifically for traveling. I also want to save the manuals." He hurrays. "Given the low price, good fuel economy and high crash rate, what would you recommend?

I'm looking for the best balance of driving fun and comfort among the base models." I love this question because we just went through this with my oldest son. He needed a car. I was driving my mother's 2006 Subaru Outback. It was a six-cylinder model. It was an old test car, so it had bad gas. All the check engine lights and everything else were ruined by this. Approximately 160,000 miles. It's time to get a new car. But my son is very proud of being able to operate a manual transmission. As if none of his friends could do this. So we looked at new and used cars with manuals.

We looked at the Toyota iM, the Honda Accord, especially the V6 coupe, which he thought was like the real sleeper, the Honda Civic and the Supreme Impreza, but we were also checking out some of the new cars to get the new technology. , new safety equipment such as the Toyota Corolla hatchback, the Honda Civic Sport and the Subaru Impreza. We found him a 2015 Honda Civic Si, with about 70,000 miles. Decent price. He really loves him. But I love this question for many reasons because it speaks to how we all grew up with smaller cars and manual transmissions. I was going to throw this at Jon first.

What would you recommend? Then the Corolla hatchback is a very good option. That's what he had here. A Mazda 6 Sport needs a little more size. One of the things we've seen a lot is that manuals won't give you any advantage in terms of fuel economy. A good automatic can do the same. I understand that maybe you want a little more performance. But if you're looking for fuel economy, you might want to look at an automatic. But yeah, those are some of my options. The ones you had were good too. Gabe, anything else? What you're describing here, fun to drive but also comfort and some refinement, to me, sounds like a Volkswagen GTI.

It's hard to call that car a base. I mean, it's not really cheap. But I'd say a Mazda 3 would be a good contender here. It gives you some driving pleasure. It feels a little upscale inside and you can still get it with a manual. Excellent suggestions. I totally agree with that. GTI is a good choice and I should have expected you to say that. Well, anyway, that's it for this episode. As always, check out the show notes for more information on the vehicles and topics we talk about. Thank you very much for tuning in. See you next week.