Putin threat comparable to pre-WWII as NATO races to deter Russia | Jim Townsend

once the enemy gets to the door, it's too late and we find ourselves right now, just as the UK and the US also did in 1940 before World War II, where we suddenly find ourselves facing the Nazis and Hitler and We had to run to prepare for it, the United States did it, the United Kingdom, other allies did it and we are seeing the same thing today as with Russia. We are having to run right now to prepare, to be able to

deter

the Russians from causing other damage, other aggression in addition to what we are seeing in Ukraine, in today's D-Day commemorations, the king paid tribute to bravery and the sacrifice of all those who fought on the beaches of Normandy 80 years ago, many of them never returning home.

They lost their lives on the grounds of the D-Day Landings or in the many battles that followed. With the deepest feeling of gratitude we remember them well. What is the current state of British forces? Could we adequately and effectively deal with any potential

threat

? Speaking at a D-Day commemoration event in Portsmouth yesterday, outgoing army chief General Patrick Sanders said Britain is simply not ready for another global conflict. We can now speak to military analyst and King's College fellow Professor Michael Clark and Jim. townend former US deputy secretary of defense Professor Clark, first of all, do you agree with what General Patrick Sanders said yesterday?

Yes, I mean, when he became chief of the General Staff, the chief of the army said then we have to mobilize. be prepared to mobilize and what he said. I remember being there the day he gave his first speech. He said that if we were to go to Europe to the continent now we would be incredibly outnumbered, we would be completely inadequate. fight like hell but that's what we have to do and he said that my job as head of the Army is to try to mobilize the Army and he has done a lot in that sense but the fact is that he is no longer the head of the general's personal, the message is the same: the army can be as brave as it wants, if it runs out of ammunition after two weeks it loses and that's where we are overall and in terms of the sheer size of the British army, I don't think there will ever be been smaller, well it's about 72,000 73,000 something like that, yes, 72,000 500 was the target number they used to say, the Conservative government when Michael Fallon was defense secretary said we have a base of 82,000 and we won't let it fall below . 82,000 and then, a year later, they told us that that was the aspiration of reaching 82,000, what was actually done was to go down to 72 72,500 and that was the level established in the 2021 defense review, so now a "we win" basis.

It doesn't fall below 72,500 and I can tell you we're already below that because more people are leaving than joining, so the Army is smaller now than it has ever been since the Napoleonic era and it's too small to do the kind of things What politicians say. "They want it to be so, let's bring in Jim Townend, former US Undersecretary of Defence. Mr. Townend, do you think that the Americans feel they can rely on the British Armed Forces if necessary? Well, we can always rely on the British Armed Forces and we always have. I have a very close relationship, but as was just said, you know, trust is one thing, but being ready to go and do what needs to be done, that is the problem not only for the United Kingdom but also for the United States. and other allies.

Furthermore, we have gone through a period where we felt that war was simply a thing of the past, after the end of the Cold War, we really took our eye off the ball and, over time, we now find ourselves not where we need to be. If we want to be a strong

deter

rent and we're rushing now to try to do some of the things that we should have done in the last two decades, it's interesting, isn't that right today, precisely, when we're looking at our situation? screens here in the studio of the Great and the good uh, all very happy to attend these incredibly moving and important commemorative events, but trying to have a proper conversation about defense spending in our election campaign, Mr.

Townend, it's actually Hard enough, most people just don't do it. I'm not interested, why do you think that's good? You know it's the same in the US and also in other allied nations, in particular, we have found ourselves struggling too much, particularly in Europe, struggling to reach the 2% target that NATO has set. allies in terms of the percentage of GDP that should go to defense, it wasn't until Putin invaded Ukraine that we started to understand that we have to be prepared, but the United States also has the same kind of problem with defense spending. I don't have a big constituency at home, whether it's public health in the UK or other domestic issues in the US.

I always need Trump's defense, especially if the enemy is not at your door, if it is not an obvious

threat

, it is difficult for politicians to vote. to increase the defense when there is no such enemy at the door, but once the enemy reaches the door it is too late and we find ourselves right now, just as the United Kingdom and the United States also did in 1940 before the Second World War. World War. where suddenly we found ourselves facing the Nazis and Hitler and we had to run to prepare for it, the United States did it, the United Kingdom did other allies and today we are seeing the same thing as with Russia. run right now to prepare so we can deter the Russians from doing other damage, other aggression besides what we are seeing in Ukraine Michael Clark President Putin was not invited to the D-Day commemorations today.

I think we can all understand that. Because? And it's also true, aren't those countries bordering Russia? Finland, for example, has really had to change their tune about what they think about defense and what they do about it. Oh yes, I mean one of the biggest developments in this. The crisis of the last two years is that Sweden and Finland joined NATO. Remember, I mean, Finland has been neutral and non-aligned since 1945. Sweden has not been aligned since 1812 and within a couple of months they applied to join NATO and now they are both. NATO members, so NATO has gone from 30 to 32 nations and all northern members, so Norway, Sweden, Finland, the Baltic states, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Denmark, the Netherlands, all Northern states are well aware of the Russian challenge and accept it. a very harsh view of this in southern Europe is very different if you look at what the government says in Slovakia in Hungary in Austria these people lean towards Putin they talk about the need for peace in Ukraine by which they mean let Putin keep everything he has conquered and then we will sit down to negotiate and he will tell us what else he wants to keep him satisfied for a couple of years, yes, so there is a big difference between the north and the south of NATO and that The difference is becoming greater as this war in Ukraine progresses, that's really interesting, Jim Tanzen, what would be your opinion on that?

That's exactly right. This is something that should give us all pause a little bit because the nations, the Nordic countries, you know. They've traditionally been seen as these countries that were the peacekeeping superpowers at the UN and had a view of international relations in which they were neutral, they wanted to stay away from Vietnam and things like that that were part of the last century, but We Are What we are seeing today, as was just said, are these nations that take their defense very seriously, that have a very sober mentality, are very concerned about Russia, are doing a lot within the alliance and in their region to improve . deterrence to put more money into defense defense has never faltered when it comes to dealing with Russia and being strong uh where they are in terms of their neutrality now they are part of NATO headquarters is part of NATO uh but but in other parts of the alliance, as has just been said, whether in the Black Sea area or in Spain, Italy, Greece, consider that their threats come from the immigration of immigrants who cross the Mediterranean due to terrorism.

They have another image of threat, so for NATO unity is essential. that we all come together, whether it's concerns about the south, as the southern allies are, or in the north, uh, Poland, uh, Romania, they are both concerned about Russia and we must also come together as a unified Alliance Yes, we have done that until now. but that's critical for all of us, uh, to keep an eye on where Russia is going. Thank you very much for the time from him, Jim Tanzen, former US Deputy Secretary of Defense to that Professor Michael Clark, military analyst and fellow at King's College.

It will be interesting to see if defense spending appears in that Friday night debate. Just a quick text from David because it's a point worth making. Why were the people of Russia or at least a representative not invited to the ceremonies? on D-Day because obviously the Russian people lost so many lives and what was the statistic that you mentioned yesterday uh 27 million 27 million yeah on the second mobile I mean it's beyond our understanding that's a good point for David