The Man That Makes Millionaires: How To Turn $1,000 Into $100 Million!: Alex Hormozi | E235

I'm going to say some things that are going to upset some people who are listening to this and aren't making as much money as they would like, you have to tell Mr. Alex from Ozzy, a $100

million

entrepreneur investor and philanthropist who is taking the Internet by storm. . The guy really understands how to build a business. I was 22 years old. I had done everything my dad wanted me to do and I was watching from the condo that I had been able to buy with this job I had and, um, I always hoped I wouldn't wake up the next day.

I appreciate the fact that it was so miserable that it made me change the pain. motivates significantly faster and stronger than pleasure if you are angry use it if you are sad use it or use "I didn't know if I would succeed, but I did know I wasn't going to stop. At that time I met my wife and then she just changed my life How did it change her?" I'm going to go here, um, she just believes in me. She stood tall when everything in my life was falling apart around me. I was broke at her parents' house and I was like "I think you should leave me," she pulled my chin towards her and she.

It was like I would sleep with you under a bridge if the time came where six months later I have three

million

dollars in the bank account. That was all the first nine months of our relationship for her to have that kind of belief. It was profound for me and I think that's what most people really want, what

makes

an entrepreneur a really good leader. I'm going to respond to this differently than I have in the past and tell a story that hopefully people won't take seriously. wrongly, but I had a cat before this episode started.

I have a small favor to ask you two months ago. 74 of the people who watch this channel did not subscribe. Now we're at 69. My goal is 50, so if you ever liked any of the videos we've posted? If you like this channel, can you do me a quick favor and hit that subscribe button? It helps this channel more than you imagine and the bigger the channel gets, as you have seen, the bigger the guests get. Receive thanks and enjoy this episode. I spend several hours consuming all your content across multiple channels. What is the OBJETIVE? What is the mission?

What is the intention if you were to try to summarize the content you are producing and the value you have? We're trying to add and who are you trying to add so that the business is accessible to everyone, that was the mission of the company, so our idea was that we will make everything available for free, so there will be no paywalls , so it's like I have courses next to the books that I have for 99 cents so anyone can get them and you know we will continue to produce everything we can and share the learnings that we have from our portfolio companies to maintain the things that we are publishing, new, relevant and cutting edge because this is what is working today and by doing so it also attracts other companies to us because they get value from things and our goal is always to hopefully provide more value to a company sooner .

Have we ever been told that paying ourselves up front is kind of the thought process even though we're buying um and that was kind of the thesis when we started it. I didn't know if it was. we're going to work, but it seems to have gone pretty well uh and it was like we just gave and kept giving and kept giving, we just focused on the value and delivering it to the audience um it's going to come back eventually what are they? Are you giving them and to whom are you giving them to entrepreneurs at all stages?

We have surveyed the audience. 25 of the audience have a business. 75 doesn't have a business but wants to start a business so that's kind of the general um and then inside. Those 25 are just categories up to you know, companies that make over 100 million a year and so they're all, so we try and they're one of the things we talk about is like going broad and deep, It's like how can we? find something that is relevant to someone you know who is launching their first product and also make it accessible or interesting to someone who is launching a new product line within a division of your conglomerate and just try to think about both people at the same time , which becomes It's more challenging but it's also fun, like a funnel, isn't it in some ways?

That's exactly what I saw in your content. Europe: You are creating great content that helps people who are at the beginning of their journey. 100 employees deep in their journey trying to figure out how to scale, you're creating content that's breaking down some of the barriers where the psychological or the practical is going to allow them to achieve whatever dream they have, let's go up, so what do I need to know? about you to understand the life you have led you take me back to your childhood in the early context both parents are immigrants to the US uh mother was born in France came here but father was born in Iran they met in medical school in Europe and Then my mother brought him with her to the US and then they had me and they separated.

My mother had many demons. She had a lot of things that she struggled with when I was growing up, so I was practically raised by my father. She didn't have any siblings, it was just me and my dad until I was 15 years old. He remarried, it was a short period in terms of how long I was in the house, you know, right at that stage is when I can drive and I was alone pretty much at that point, as soon as I was able to work and drive, I was like out. from home and then from there, I did what most people try to do, which is, uh, I worked hard in school mainly because I didn't want my dad to get mad at me, which was the main driver of the major Part of my accomplishments in my career for the first half, was just trying to get his approval, I did all the things that I thought he would want me to get a job at a government contracting consulting firm, uh, defense contracting was space cyber. and ISR, so intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance for the military sounded really cool, it was less cool when you were into it and I was very, very sad about that point in my life it was very much like I didn't do it.

I always hoped I wouldn't wake up the next day. um you really really mean it one hundred percent 100 because I remember when I was looking at it because a lot. Many people have rock top moments, sorry, rock bottom moments. I think I had more top rock moments, which was, uh, I was 22 years old. I had done everything my dad wanted me to do at that time. He was watching from the condo. that I had been able to buy with this job that I had and um, I was like the whole time I didn't really enjoy my life um and it was just, you know, not wanting to wake up and it was the decision to leave Baltimore, which is where I was from. , leaving that path and deciding to start my own business was to this day the hardest thing I have ever done, by far, all the things we have gone through to build what we had.

The hardest decision was to take the leap for me and It was because I knew my dad wanted me to do what I was doing so much because he was so happy that I was doing everything he wanted me to do at that moment and I had told him over and over again that I wanted to do other things and he said: yeah, yeah, later, you know, later, um, so I knew it would probably put a big dent in our relationship if I left, but for me it was actually facing the fact that I didn't want to be alive anymore, that It was what gave me enough courage or whatever you want to call it to make the decision to leave home and then I started driving around the country.

I mean, it took me six months to do this, like when I decided I really wanted to do this and when I actually did it, it took me six months and I called him when I was like halfway across the United States and I said, to California. , I'm going to open a gym, I'm going to get into fitness and he asked me why are you so extreme and like to lose control and then we didn't talk much for a long time when you started to realize that your life um, was one in the that you didn't want to wake up in the morning when you had that job in management consulting, you experienced suicidal ideation is that what you were saying when you said no, I didn't want to wake up my life every day was never like I'd never had anything like that is how I would commit suicide. no, I never had that I just always liked the idea that I couldn't wake up the next day it sounded good when you look back in retrospect From that moment on, what are the series of decisions or things that led you to find yourself in that position?

I asked because there are a lot of people who can probably relate and there is probably a fairly consistent set of frog pads or stones. that one has to walk down for whatever reason that brings you to a position where you go whose life is this? I think they're like the one line summary for me was that I felt like I had to let my father's dream die. mine to live in and I felt like my whole life up until that point had always been like going to school, doing these studies, I mean, it's a common thing, it's not like I have something that a lot of people don't have.

A lot of people, and to be fair, I'm very grateful for the skills, discipline, etc., that that instilled in me, because I think you have the heavy hand of an authoritarian parent when you're growing up and it teaches you a lot. skills and then you know the flip side is that if you have a less Agreeable parent, you never learn those skills that then benefit you, so you know who knows, but for me, I knew that he just wanted me to be a doctor, that's it. which one he was, that would have been his dream. I went to school as pre-med and then it was like even changing my degree from pre-med to just a business degree was like a big deal, but he was okay with it.

As long as I followed the business path, when I did my two years of consulting, which is typical, two to four years that you do Consulting and then apply to go to Business School, when I was going through that process, I was answering the question about the Harvard MBA and it was like how will the Harvard MBA help your short and long term goals? And I sat there for two days trying to answer the question and I thought it's just not what I want. start a business and that's when I kept trying to, you know, start that conversation with my dad and it just wasn't happening, and that's what was the breaking point for me, it was like I felt terrible for myself I didn't like the life and I didn't like how it was going and for me it was a key point because the most important line of reasoning I had to convince myself to confront my father or at least disappoint my father. or the version of myself that he wanted me to be was to say that I had to be comfortable dying before his eyes and a lot of people like that and a lot of people might think that was hyperbole, but to me it was so true, like I knew it.

I would die in their eyes and I did, to give you context, so I had the gyms and I opened several after that, I got to about six locations sold, they started a gym renovation business and did it for two years, the whole time we were . I don't really know, we were well in touch, um and then we started the licensing business, which is launching the gym, and that was the one that really took off and we hadn't been in touch much and I got a call out of the blue. and he wasn't like a cold call, you know, I mean, I thought this is weird, so I pick up the phone and he's like, "you're going to want to sit down for this" and I was like, "Okay, what's up?" ", I was thinking.

Like cancer, you know, I mean, I'm just saying, what's it going to be? he's like, I'm sorry and I was like, so he was, you know everything, I was like, okay and I was really angry, though because I mean this. is what I told him, so I thought, you know that point where people like to go up on stage and accept the awards and, of course, at this point, I think we're doing it, we're probably taking home a million and a half. a month, you know what I mean, and taking home personal income from the license, it was a decent sign, so I'm not a conglomerate, probably what is a decent sized business and I was like, you know, when people go up on stage and accept awards for things.

I thought the first thing they always say is hey, I just think about my mom and dad for always believing in me and I said, I'm not going to say that. I thought because you did it. You're only saying this now once everyone believed because it's no longer a belief, it's a fact, it's evidence. I was like, so you, I was like this apology means nothing to me and on top of that, I stopped caring what you thought six years ago, that's why I left and I thought I could have accepted it and I didn't do that.

How did you feel about it? I probably like it today. I probably would have said thank you. I appreciate it. I know where he was trying. He was trying to extend an olive branch um and I just wasn't there. He was still furious. I was still very angry because I hadn't received any support during that process and maybe that was a big misfortune for me, um, but I was still very angry at that point and you know give a little bit of context as well, you know that his responseWhat are your general expenses? how much? time takes you and then blah blah I thought let's do your thing, we'll call it queen transformation, I'll start running ads and we'll take it. the sales team and we'll put it to work and then, within 14 days, she starts getting phone calls because she was a good salesperson.

She's making a thousand dollars a day online, no, no, all the margin, what product was she? week as an online weight loss program, yes, online exactly, so it was $500. She was selling two of them a day and I Man, if we get to eight people, we will have eight thousand a day 240 after the advertising investment. I thought I can make 150 wins and we'll be safe, so I called the eight people who were supposed to pitch. the next month, at the gyms, so I got on the phone with the first guy and I said, Hey, we're going in another direction, you know, we're going to be a weight loss company that's still direct-to-consumer and he was like, Dude. , you launched my friend's gym about two months ago and, like him, he can't stop talking about you, it's like it's full, because there are other gyms that did well, only the ones that didn't, are the ones that They crushed the business. he says, I know you can do it um and I just refinanced my house and maxed out my credit cards to make this gym happen and I'm going to lose it and given what I'd been through up to this point, I thought that's a tough man like um I'm sorry for that and then finally said: can you be okay instead of flying? can you show me what you did to help my friend?

Can you just give me like the system and since I was like I'm going to get out of this gym business. I was fine with selling my secrets, so I said, "All right, man. I'll give you everything I've got, but I'm not going to fly over there to save your ass if you can't." sell, he said no, no, it's okay, so I took the highest number I could think of because he already told me he was broke, so I thought I could get him off the phone so we could move on and I told him six thousand dollars and He was like six thousand dollars and I was like yeah, he was like oh ready.

I remember looking at the phone and being like holy six thousand dollars and I was like oh, what card do you want to use for that? I wrote like a cardboard box and then the next call had the same thing and I was like, well I have to do this now and I was in the same conversation, he said how much it was like eight thousand dollars and he said, yeah, okay. , and in each of the calls I said the following. call the same thing 10 grand, then call the same thing 12 grand and then the next, you know, at the end of the day I sold 60,000 in license packages for all the things we did to make the changes, it's monthly or is it just me.

I didn't even have any. I was like I'm just giving you everything I do. Yes, he became more comfortable. It became a recurring pattern over time, but it was a PDF. Actually, I was on my internal stuff. like what I used to train my sales teams that were flying out and what I would use to train them on how to do nutritional guidance like it was all internal stuff, the only thing I really did external was I had to create the uh the advertising material. , so basically I had to make a white label landing page for the gyms that they could put their logo on and then I licensed the ads that we already knew to convert them properly, so like the videos, they copy everything They used videos of me that we knew converted and I taught them how to run them and then that's what they did and we made sixty thousand dollars in one day and I like that Layla came from doing her 2 weight loss sales and I was like, I think I still We're in the gym business and she said what I thought we were doing to lose weight, like you just told me you sold me on weight loss and the next thing I thought I just think we were doing it wrong and then I explained to her what had happened and she said, "This is what we're going to do now," and I thought, "I guess I can call the other 30 gyms we made the changes for." We know we can do it because we just did it for them so I called all those guys and we got like 300,000 and sales that month and it was basically all profit and I covered the rebates and I covered everything and we were like clear and then and then it was just and then all those gyms that we did and that we sold, the average gym got thirty thousand dollars in extra cash raised in their first month using our system, so the key was that if they didn't I don't have to pay the seller's overhead. that's there every day at the hotel, the commission for that guy, like the car rental, the deal, all the things that you have to incentivize and just rent him out at his own gym and work. the leads themselves became incredibly profitable for them and then it took off like wildfire, like we went from our first full 12 months from January to January.

We made 26 million from Top Line, 17 million in EBITDA in our first 12. Months like that, it was crazy, it's hard to understand that, as I like, that was the time when I was broke at his parents' house and then, like six months later, I have three million dollars in the bank account and then like 12. months after that I have like 20 million, it was crazy and um, I didn't even know how you could pay taxes like I, no, I was like was figuring out all of this stuff, but through all of that, Layla was like you can do this like we can do this like we have this um and I think sometimes you just need a voice behind you to still believe what happened then. , so that's 2016. um, you change things over the next couple of years, which happens, you know, before we get to where we are today in terms of your business, can you give me an overview of Top Line in terms of What if, will I give you the tldr? um, it continues to grow, the launch of the gym, uh, two years later, we started a sub-company called Prestige Labs, at that time we had thousands of gym owners who had authorized the business model, the ads and everything that we were doing, for what we sold through that distribution base, that company grew pretty well, pretty big, pretty quickly.

A year later we started a software company that also helped gyms get leads in their doors as if they were automated leads and then in 2021 we sold the three companies, the supplement and the licensing company that we sold to the group American Pacific, which is a privately held company in San Francisco for 46.2 million. We sold two-thirds of the company and then we sold the software company to a strategic buyer who had a huge base and we had a better monetization system than them. did um and that was an equity deal um so we continue to grow under their umbrella and they will probably sell them in four or five years um but from that and from what we had received in dividends um during the licensing business for the five years that It was still rocking and rolling, we started acquisition.com, so it became kind of our family office and then we started our first investments.

I think the first event since we did it was in 2020, so there's some overlap there and part of the reason I was willing to sell it was because the investments, the first three or four investments we made, did very well, and I was like, okay, this is what I want to do and it's next so you know I didn't do it. I want to be the gym guy for the rest of my life, um, because I had been, you know, at this point, I think it had been over a decade, um, I had gone from sleeping on the gym floor to having multiple occasions to do the change the business to do licensing like I had been in that game for a long time and I think maybe I could have stayed there and I could have continued to complicate it and started doing Acquisitions under the Fitness umbrella, but I wanted to do more .

Business things in general and that's what we did and now we buy parts of companies generally, usually minorities, 25 to 49 percent stakes, I mean, we have one that we're in talks about that we were originally a minority in. participate and we're going to take the majority because it's been a great company and they want the founder to be in the same position as me, he just wants to do other things and it's a great business, um and so on, but that's how we see it. it's like growth partners um, we come in, we write a check, we add value, we help grow the business, what are you brilliant at, you know, you kind of come to learn what you're good at based on comparison, but you kind of mode I understand your area of ​​expertise What is your area of ​​brilliance or expertise?

I really want to ask Caleb um Caleb where is Caleb? We can barely see him so Caleb sat on the couch in the corner of the studio. He is a friend and creative director of Alex and I. I'm asking Caleb what Alex is good at, where his brilliance lies. I like solving problems for companies that simplify complex things into more digestible and actionable solutions too and how would you answer that question if you answered it yourself. I feel like Basically, a lot of times I don't understand the world and I think the reason why some people have found content and things like that good or useful is because they feel like they can understand it, it's just because I didn't understand it. getting it right, like terms like value, the right people like to provide more value, like what does that mean, so I just try to define the terms that a lot of us use every day and then it's a lot easier to figure it out. things in business and you know, a lot of people want to grow my business.

I'm fine, what does that mean? We'll get more customers, we'll make them worth more, so it's one of those two things, okay, how do we do it? I make more clients like, well there are eight ways to do it, here are the eight ways that you feel like you are better and just thinking about Frameworks that way is just for me, it's been my way of being able of being relatively competent in a world that feels confusing, like there are some things I feel like I can understand and I just cling to them. I mean, that's the very nature of innovation, isn't it like asking the question we so often ask?

Our lives just accept words and phrases and ways of doing things, then there are some people who are really good, like elon, one of them, uh, I just like to ask why and then when you ask why, for example, why can't you do an affordable quote for an electric vehicle that's fast, everyone else says you can't, yeah, but why do you know, and then he's great at breaking it down into the core components of that innovation, great, If we buy the metal on the iron exchange and do this and this, then I can do it, yes, they said it is a very important thing in entrepreneurship, right?

There are some people who just ask why, naturally, yeah, it seems to be to the point, like for Elon, it's like he doesn't understand why we can't, yeah, like just. Explain to me why we can't so I can't think about this, yeah, and I feel like that's what you know. I would say that's the most common thing, like why this company is not growing. I don't understand. Explain it. for me and then usually a lot of people are like they're stuck in this loop, you know what I mean about doing what they've always done or they like to believe that this is the only way, and I think a lot of times I've benefited from not knowing because my questions don't seem stupid to me but only someone who likes it knows what they're doing um it seems stupid to me and then from there we can like.

I guess to your point, innovating by just saying I don't understand, that's what Steve Jobs from everything I've read about Steve Jobs in my brief conversation with Steve Wozniak Once upon a time, um, he was just the voice in the room that he never understood why they couldn't and we even like it when we think about him removing the keyboard and doing you know, not refusing to use a stylus and all these other crazy things that he didn't use JavaScript, I think at the time and changing the port. and taking away the iPhone connector, who is someone who has such strong convictions in terms of likes doing things anyway, how important do you think that is in general?

What, in your opinion,

makes

a really good entrepreneurial leader? I think they have to do it. They have the power to influence and that applies to many things, they just have to be able to move other people and you can define sales as the ability to get people to comply with your request. You can define leadership in the same way as management marketing. degree is getting people to fulfill a broader request, you know that publicly, but I think fundamentally it's a skill that people have to have if they want to be successful in entrepreneurship, they have to have a tremendous drive, whether it's a combination of towards or far away, so they have a big mission that they really want to accomplish or they have a big fear of running away either way.

I think fuel works only from a purely business perspective. The third piece is impulse control, it is thatThey have to be able to say no to things on a regular basis over a long period of time, and I think they have to be able to summarize the success of their business in inputs and outputs, as if you don't know the inputs that are going to be made. to get the result you want, so what are you doing? I think for most entrepreneurs, if they have those things, if they have the ability to lead other people, they sell only influence, they have a great motivator, they can control themselves long enough to continue for that period of time and they are doing the right things because they know the ins and outs to be successful in creating what they want.

He becomes a very difficult person to beat at that first point and then sells one of What I read in some of your work is the idea that if everyone spent two years doing door-to-door sales, then, my God, would they? Why is it so important? Why do you think door-to-door sales are key? I think it's just for broader definitions for the audience. I think it's just high volume transactional sales, so whether you do it door to door, do you cold call or do you work the front desk at a gym where you do 20? consoles one day like just having a high volume because to learn a skill you want to have as much exposure as possible to repeat the action and then you want quick feedback loops so you can learn what you did wrong, so the perfect scenario would be Mentor mentored correction of repeated exposure try again, fix this try again and in sales, if you can survive that long then you will be good enough to have received enough feedback that for most people, if you can survive the first three months of sales you will generally be well and So I always tell the people who come to go to Shadow, the best, and do double the volume than him because they are not as good as him, so do double the volume that they work every hour. and you'll get better faster because you're doing it, you have to suck for X amount of time and so if you can condense how long that takes you in terms of calendar days, not hours, you can get there faster, but I think It is important. because when you have to learn how to be rejected and still move forward, and I think that's a very valuable skill, and then two, there's a lot of little things that you learn just in interpersonal communication that allow you to use with your teammates later on. use in marketing because a lot of the best marketers started out as salespeople and marketing is just one-to-many sales, at least as I understand it, and having that kind of repetition just develops a deep understanding of human psychology, I think, And I think.

It's important if you want people to give you money for what you have. Having that as a basic skill is useful. I think a lot of people are not skill development oriented. I think they are lifestyle oriented. which I can post on Instagram to call whatever is cool, but this idea of ​​developing skills requires something that is absent in modern culture, which is patience and, much like what you said, rejection, who wants that you know there was no glamour? What you said, yeah, it's funny because a lot of us want right traits, we want to be patient, we want to be humble, we want to be, you know, long-suffering, whatever word you want to use, um, but to be able to say, hey, how?

Would you create if you had to create a human? What would you put him through to make him tough? It probably wouldn't be a really quiet life. Yes. What would you put him through to make him patient? Well, you probably wouldn't give them things. immediately and it's like we want these exchanges, but each of the traits has a price tag attached to it, it's like you want to pay the price to get the thing and then I think if people reframed the period of life that they're spending like the price that they are paying from their wallet, but the wallet is their time, it is the seconds of life that they are exchanging for it, so I think that more people will be willing to make the exchange because at least when I look at myself like when I'm in my 80s and I look back on my life.

I want to have these traits, but in order to have those traits I know that I have to go through these things and I think for me that is. It gave me a lot of comfort in difficult times. One of the things adjacent to what causes patience is the belief that at some point you're going to get there, so you know everything's okay and it's good that you're telling me to do this. for five years, Stephen, you'll develop the skill, but I'm going to listen, if I want to be a millionaire, um, and I and I have little self-confidence, I'll have little conviction, so I'm not even going to take the BET, yeah, so, How does one build that self-confidence?

Self-confidence is such an interesting thing because it feels that real. It's clear to some extent that you had it in that moment of confusion. Also the reason I say to some extent is because anyway, it didn't seem like you had a plan B. Sorry, you were already in your playroom like your in-laws or whatever, so there's nothing to say. lose, yeah, you have nothing to lose, so I don't know how. A lot of self-confidence applies, but regardless of continuing to overcome those obstacles, you need some kind of conviction that this is the right path to follow.

How do people build that? Then I listened to him as if to repeat the point you just made. my current existence and that's why I think some people don't hate their current existence enough and that's why I don't think you know, you either have to really believe that this is going to happen or you have to know that your life sucks. and I knew my life sucked and so I knew that if I did something else it would be more likely to change my life than not doing something and at least that's how I would say I probably saw it at first.

It's like I didn't know if it was going to work, but I knew it wasn't going to stop. I read and heard a quote about 10 years ago that came to mind when you said that in a YouTube Family Vlog where you said that change happens when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of making a change and in your situation , although it sounds good, this is less painful 100, I believe and I believe that that is the basis of the movement, or you have to have a reward is that which encourages you on the path towards it, or we move away from pain or we go towards pleasure.

I think a lot of people are really looking for that passion that they're going to drive towards, but I think in the early days and I talk a lot about this, but I think negative motivation is too poopy, like if you're angry, use it if you're sad, use it. Because what else are you going to do with her? You might as well let her help you. You know what I mean and I always like to see when I was in my early days, I felt like I was managing my anger in at least one direction and I think also a lot of people think that they have to do it well. on the first shot, but one of the beliefs I had was that I just wanted to have the right direction, if I move, I like it, I know I don't like this, so I'm not this way, so I'll start. taking steps this way and from the story that you at least heard, it's like I'm ping-ponging a little bit to try to move directionally in that direction and it's funny because Caleb has seen a lot of what we do at acquisition.com where they're like If we tried it and if it doesn't work, they're like Oops, all good.

Do you believe in yourself? I think I have a high probability of repeating activities that I have done in the past and until now. At this point I have a lot of evidence that would suggest I will continue, why didn't you say Yes? Because I based the answer on that question or what I did before and I think now it's just based on evidence. So it's not that I like the charisma thing, at least for me, it's that I've done these things and I think I can probably continue. Is there some deeper reason why you didn't just say yes?

Actually, that's how I think about it because it feels hard to say that you believe in yourself, yeah, it feels weird. I don't know if dumb is the right word for how I feel about myself, but I like to say it the way I said it. That's how I feel about it. Have you been on the journey of in terms of self-doubt over the last? You know he's safe. I think he was um, but I mean, fear was my big fear and my anger hand in hand. hand were my big motivators in the beginning and I mean, maybe that's from softap.

I would say he was very confident and I can, I can, I can feel this and I remember it. um, I was always sure that he wasn't going to stop like that. that I can I didn't know I didn't know if I would succeed I thought it was likely but I did know I wasn't going to stop and for me that was enough to get me going or keep me going is What are the controllables? Well, well, if I do this, I'm good at making unreasonable, unreasonable statements, like I make sales and I do more volume than everyone else on this team.

I have Shadow, the guy who is the best and I do it for five years. It is unreasonable for him not to be at least mediocre, he will likely be above average and he will also likely learn other things over time. way and I will also have the resources at that time in five years to be able to jump into things now that I have more context or perspective from which to make a judgment about what is a good next opportunity and that's why I like that it's very easy to believe . statements and then have the input and output equation as if the output is that I will be a very good salesperson, the input says that I have to do it.

I have to collect 5000 nodes, if I collect 5000 no, I will be a very good seller and that for me, like when I was a child, when I played video games, I would beat the same level over and over, and over and over, so that when I reached the next level he would crush everyone because he had all the experience points maxed out. And those input and output equations are really helpful to me, like when I took the GMAT to get into Harvard, my first score was like well, it wasn't great, but I read this study about how to do well on standardized tests and they had this graph went like this, it was just a straight line, it said the number of problems practiced on your GMAT score, so the more problems you did on average, the higher your test score was and I was done, so I bought 16 phone books from like they're like these thick like test prep books and I did four hours of problems every day for three months every day.

I was coming home from work. Had dinner. He solved four hours of problems. I had a stopwatch every day and then I graded. 99 Point any percentile because it was just in and out like I didn't, I didn't, naturally I wasn't even that good at math, but I would like that if I do 10,000 problems, I'll start to understand how these problems work. They asked me, and like I was trying to figure out what the input output is for this content play, I thought, "Okay, if you post once a day on a platform, we'll get some eyeballs." If we post on every platform every day we will get more eyes if we post multiple times a day on each platform we will get even more eyes so let's do it let's build that system 100% and this is how I try to make statements that I think are not reasonable if I do. enough, it will be true and that's it for me, that's what gives me the confidence to say what if it doesn't work, eventually it will work, if we keep doing it it will work, what does it take to want to do something potentially for years? so you can be good at it because you know there will be people thinking: well, I want to be a great DJ, but I can't find the motivation to spend three hours every day practicing Alex, yeah, but you probably won't.

Be a good DJ, but I'd say you like your current state enough to like the pain of change, as if you don't have enough pain. I've said that to a lot of people, we're going to talk and someone says, how can I get motivated? I'm like you motivate yourself like you have to hate me if you already can. I automatically go there. I'm like you have to hate something like for me. I simply hated my current existence. And for me, that was powerful enough to get me out. There has to be another way. Although you know, I was thinking about you at that moment when you took the leap, you know.

I often feel like I feel like most people who listen to this podcast frequently. They are at a point in their life where they are considering taking a leap, yes, they feel that we drag those types of people towards us, as if we are a magnet for those people, so if you find yourself in a situation where you don't they do it. I don't like it, but it's not that painful, you know, it's comfortable, well that's the worst, it's comfortable, but a little miserable, yeah, how do you get them to take the leap when it's so comfortable?

My boss promises me a promotion. I think about death all the time. it's like I'm going to die and I think you have to stir up the pain for yourself like you have to stoke the pain like you can't get over it because that's how it would be, it would be strange if you were motivated by some strange passion like not everyone is Mozart and at the same time Just as I love music and have been. I see and you know, I see numbers and colors, you know whatever, some people are like that, but most people aren't, and if you're not, then you're just worried.You start to like things when you get good at them, in my opinion, and you only get good at doing them many times before you get good at them, so if that's why I'm a big A big believer in this is that when you're Starting out, I think you have to find out what pain is and pain motivates significantly faster and stronger than pleasure.

Passionless people like it the right way, it's like pointing a gun at a family member. suddenly 10 out of 10 motivation pain and then I think people should use their pain more and if they don't have enough pain then one maybe it's okay and you're a dreamer and that's okay, but I'll tell you a word that I can read in my six month journey between the time I wanted to quit and the time I actually did it, there was a word that pissed me off and it was in this self-jump or entrepreneur book and it said there are entrepreneurs and there are entrepreneurs and it was like entrepreneurs or people who read these books and do nothing and I was like I don't want to be, I thought I'm one of these right now and I just felt so helpless and I think my whole life has been a lot of trying to have power and I mean in the true sense of just being able to direct influences and events, I've wanted to have more power to protect myself, protect others. people I care about Etc um and I felt very helpless and I think I felt comfortable because my dad approves of my current situation.

I had a job and when I told it to people they were like oh, that's classy, ​​but I felt helpless and I hated it more than anything, so I think I think if I want to say this to anyone who's listening, if there's something for them to hear, All the really difficult things I described that I went through were not as difficult as leaving my job, by far the most difficult decision of my entire life. Life doesn't exclude anyone because the things I really encountered were other people's opinions, my father's opinions, and the opinions of people I went to school with who I thought would judge me for leaving this good I work to probably become a failed gym owner and how dumb would that sound compared to a consultant who goes to Harvard and like I'm going to go from Peak white collar to a very blue color, you know, the profession earns a lot less because , quote, I loved it and I like it if I say this again, but sometimes you have to let other people's dreams for your life die for years to live and for me it was like when I went on every day not wanting to wake up, that was my wake up call where I was like either I keep living this way and I don't want to be alive or I just risked the fact that I'm going to die to everyone else and I think it was the hardest decision of my entire life by far, all of this, all the difficult things.

We are still going through the most difficult decision of my life. How much money did you have in mind when you made that decision? The desire to be financially free to the point where you had millions. It's strange money. Caleb would know that this money doesn't really motivate me. uh, I would say I mean I love the game, sure, um, but I love playing it and the chips are there, um, but for me it was, it was, it was, it was beating my dad, you know, I mean, I don't wanted to. being right that's how it was I didn't want him to be right I just remember like if I was sleeping on the floor I would be miserable you know when I had my gym and I didn't have trainers I was teaching all the classes so I would wake up do sessions from 4 a.m. 5 a.m. m., 6 a.m. m., 7 a.m. m., 8 a.m. m., and then I would work out by myself and then I would do uh, I do all the marketing and advertising and things that I have to do in the middle of the day and then I would show the room the four o'clock description of the five from 7pm to 7pm and then I would do sales inquiries at 8 9 10 11 and then I would do the billing for all the contracts from 11 to 12 12 30 and then I would wake up again and I did it for like six months and I started losing my mind because I wasn't sleeping um, but even during those Sometimes I literally imagined going back to Baltimore with my dad and knowing that he would give me the false modesty of "well, I know you tried, don't worry about it, Now we're going back to this and I knew it." that from that moment on he would own me and I just couldn't I couldn't I couldn't do it I was like I was going to do anything but go back to that and for me that was my I would do anything and so whatever maybe you need to stir up some pain in your life you know to get out of your current circumstance um and just as a total side note, play around and if you never do anything it's like maybe some people just need to stop dreaming, maybe they need to accept their current reality and really enjoy it because there are many people who when they are 70 and 80 years old did not make their dreams come true and they re

turn

ed as if they had done nothing, but all that time they were dissatisfied. because they didn't try, but what if they were like?

I have a good life. I have a wife who loves me. I have some children. I have a job. You know, I don't care. Pay the bills. I mean if you go back 500 years, there were no people like the man, this is my passion, he's like a friend, I'm just rowing a boat across a ferry and that's what I do and that's what my dad and his dad that's how it is. how we eat and we have these idealized versions of purpose that I think Instagram and all that stuff is terrible, but I think there's a lot of honor and work, and I think a lot of people fool themselves.

Thinking that you know what they do for some reason is not honorable and I think a lot of that is like the internal versus external scorecard of like I was saying what I said earlier about I think these things are true about the universe or like the world, but a lot of them are like what I believe about myself, which is like I can choose to do a job this way, which I can then get joy from, so if I'm shoveling I can choose to be like I'll be the best shoveler because I think I'll figure out how to do this more efficiently and I'll know I'll get better and I'll get calluses on my hands and I'll have a better back and whatever um but I will Do this right and I think you can find joy and work if you decide to do it right.

On the one hand, if you do, if your dream causes you so much pain, then you will stop what you are doing and do it. If it doesn't cause you enough pain to not pursue it or you don't like it, if you don't feel like you're in a cage right now, then maybe you're not in a cage and maybe you just need to like the life you have and that's great too, a previous guest on this podcast called mogow who said that we are not happy when our expectations of how we think life is supposed to be are not met and there is something very related to what you just said, we have this external expectation set by Instagram or whatever by people like us, yeah, who are in a position of financial freedom and have created an audience that you know admires those people for what they've accomplished. and if someone wants to be admired, they think, "Well, I have to be like Alex, right, um, and I might be working in a store, actually, objectively, like subjectively having a good time in the store, but I look at Alex and still, my life sucks." and so on that, I feel like it's very difficult, um, because of the pressure effect that occurs, like I was thinking when you said it, so I was thinking that this whole idea of ​​passion and purpose is probably like 60 years old, yeah, make believe what is it. all new and probably originated when we were connected, you know, like radio, television, yeah, all this advertising that made us change our expectations of our own lives when we lived in the village and, like helping in the bakery, probably The same amount of core happiness as being on the private jet and anything else now was delivered.

I think most people are just as happy, and like you, you're 50 happy and 50 sad for most of your life. If you are in an extreme circumstance, then change. in your life, if you are not in a condition like people who become disabled, break their legs, you know that they will never be able to move again and they have a drop in their subjective well-being and they re

turn

to the same baseline and, therefore, the baseline is independent. of conditions and that's why the world wants to tell us that we need to change our, you know, change our circumstances and then we will be whatever, but like every modern religion, every Buddhist monk will tell you that all of that comes from within, not from the outside, um , but These are words and words that mean yes, you can say don't go on, yes, because I'm sure you've experienced achieving a goal and then I just need three more times.

Yes, I am referring to a study. there where they ask people how much money they would need to be happy and all the way down the income wealth spectrum, people said three times what they have now, so people with 10K said 30 people with 3 million said which you know, nine million. I can do math three times three times three yeah um and you I imagine you're still experiencing that right now yeah different reasons but yeah sure when is enough um I don't think it's enough I think it's more about who I want Be who you want to be I want to be the person who can do that by doing For what purpose or just to play?

Yes, I'm sure you know more about this than I do, but you're just into game theory, like finite and infinite games, Simon. sinek has a great piece um but yeah with infinite games you have known and unknown players you don't have to read the rules and the point of the game is to keep it going so many students will take a finite game that you've met that only known players agreed on rules and a set outcome to win and will apply it to an infinite game, so people say I want, they apply a finite contract to health, they are like I want to win Health, it's like you don't win Health like well you're in shape now you stay in shape you keep staying in shape I want to win at marriage you don't win at marriage you keep the marriage going that's playing the marriage game yes I want you to know that Win It Business is still playing the marriage game business and that's why we want to take these finite contracts and put them into infinite games and I think that's where people get into trouble because they're like me. keep moving the goal post, but if the goal post is playing, then you win by playing, so sure we set goals for the company, but I'm a thousand percent super motivated and at the same time we never reach it.

I'll be happy to have been able to play. I also know that in three generations everyone will forget who I am. I saw your post about the queen, yeah, no, no, it wasn't for me, if I've been honest, um. but it's an interesting scam. What the post said is that she accumulated more wealth than 99.99% of the world she ruled for 70 years. Do you know a female monarch who is crazy, especially seven years ago, like she is everything? She has had an incredible family. this is amazing whatever I don't know the tabloid stuff you do um and when I posted it it had been I think exactly five or six months since she had died and I thought you probably wouldn't have thought about her today except for this post , you probably accomplished more in your life than we probably ever will, so if you're afraid of other people thinking about you, just remember that the six months after you die won't be, so it's like we have all these fears about other people, but like most, many of them won't even go to your funeral because they'll be busy, so I think about death all the time and that's what I think for me has given me a lot of freedom to take important photos because, At the end of the day I think it won't matter, no one will remember that people in Thailand don't know who I am today, much less in five, ten years, 100 years, it's a trap that the mind can easily fall into.

Thinking that you are the center of the universe and with that comes an immense amount of weight, pressure and total anxiety. I have a trick I've never talked about before, but every time I feel like I'm slipping into the trap of exaggerating my importance, what? I mean by that it's like thinking that my problems are big problems. I go on YouTube and I type um, there's a video that shows a camera on Earth that just zooms out and keeps going and eventually the Earth turns into this little Speck and then the Earth turns into this little speck that is the galaxy, then the galaxy becomes this little speck and a bunch of galaxies, then you can't see any of that anymore and then also this idea that like 100 years ago I didn't feel anything, I didn't think about anything. no one knew me 100 years from now exactly what you said absolutely, I mean five minutes after I died, I think, but um and that feels really liberating, like a stress relief from my body, which is kind of interesting because a lot of people people don't like to think. about death, you know, thinking about it a lot, yeah, all the time, I know from doing this podcast that a lot of people won't click if we post something about death, they won't because they don't even want to confront. the concept of thisIt's that people are afraid of it just because they don't understand it.

It's kind of like the Hate Thing. How do you feel about death? I'm fine with that when you say I'm fine with that what do you say? I mean, if I die tomorrow, I'm fine with that, I want to leave it all on the field. I'm going to try as hard as I can and I know that no one will remember me for a long time. Horizon and I'm fine. With that, I think it's okay if I told you that you were going to die tomorrow, would you be sad? I would probably hang out with Layla a little bit, I guess a little more than I always do, but like, um, I would say she would.

I wouldn't be sad, I'd be bummed, I'd be like man, there's everything I want to do, uh, but I don't think I'd be depressed, I think I mean my friend, to be fair, maybe he'll figure it out. and maybe tomorrow I'll get hit by a bus, but um no, I think I've lived life the way I want to live it and I'm okay with that if you were today if you really would have liked it, given that everything I had you lived life you feel like you were really destined let me live, an absolutely interesting mind trick on the same topic, it's like this when Betty White dies at just 99 years old or whatever, people said that she lived a good life, but when Kobe dies before him. at the right time it's a big deal and I see it as a contrast between expectations and reality and I'm going to tell a story that I hope people don't misunderstand, but I had a cat and I really liked it and it died in To my two year old years old he really liked that young boy heart thing or something like that.

I remember being really bummed about it and I was like huh how can I not think about this? So I thought the only reason I'm discouraged is because I think it should have been the big word that everyone likes to use, I should have lived longer. I thought: what if cats only lived six months and I had to keep him for two years? I thought I'd probably be pretty excited about it and suddenly I was a lot less sad about it. It was like I had to have it for two years. It was amazing and I think for me, for us, whatever, um, if we had to change our expectation.

People think they should live until everyone thinks they're going to live to be 100, which is kind of interesting because the average life expectancy is 74 and if you're 36, you're middle-aged if you really do the math no one wants. . to do, being middle-aged at 36. Okay, I know, yeah, but I think if we change our expectations, that's what's right and then we can if we expected if I expected that I was supposed to. I've lived 20 years and made it to 33. Jesus lived to three thirds, he did a lot more than me, you know what I mean, so I'm fine with that if I die tomorrow, the only reason I'd be mad is if It would require the universe to live longer, but 500 years ago the average life expectancy was 35 years, you know, it wasn't like the Middle Ages, ladies and gentlemen.

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The woot team is kind enough to give all of you a free month, so just head over. to join the CEO of.woop.com to claim your device and your first month free with us working hard, we talked about repetitions before, working hard is quite a controversial topic in 2023, it's strange, do you know what I mean? Although yeah, I'm probably not in the circles where it's controversial like gravity is controversial. I say I don't know, it's controversial in the sense that there is toxic work. Oh my god, you know there is toxic hard work and I think society prescribes a certain amount of work. which is good, yes, by your definition, I'm going to say some things that will upset some people.

I work all the time. I don't have any hobbies besides working out, if you consider it a hobby like four times a week that's it. Job. all the time that's all I do and I work until I can't work which means my output per unit of time starts to drop precipitously and then I know I just need to take a break of some kind and then usually I'm some kind of rest. of Television because that's what works for me, some people are like I Garden, that's not me, Netflix, I'm fine, you know what I mean, or a dark room in a movie theater swinging, a comma and that okay, like why do I need to take your expectations? what they want is like that's not healthy I'm like Define healthy I do everything I can of what I want to do with every minute of my day Why is that not healthy?

Why do you want me to do it? something I would rather do less of because I do what I do every other day because that's what I want to do almost like how dare you convey your life expectations to me? And to be fair, to the same extent they cannot work at all. It doesn't affect me like I'm a big supporter of destruction. Yes, the word in general should be like the engine of expectations of all our psyches. You should go to school. You should get a degree. You should do this. work you should marry her you shouldn't stay up so late you shouldn't work so hard you shouldn't you should be more balanced you shouldn't exercise so much you're not exercising like there's all these homework that other people tell us and it's like and you walk away and then you see it's a galaxy with a speck of dust it's like you should what there isn't you should do what you want to do at least that's how I see the world that pressure applies to both ends of the spectrum, doesn't it because people who , in quotes, they work too much and get hit they come back to the middle and the people who work too little and get hit work harder and then the presumption that they find themselves in within society is that this exists? sweet area in the middle where it is optimal and the question should then be what is the measurement?

What are we measuring? Are we measuring when we define this amount of work as good work or healthy work or whatever? The real measure of my happiness and fulfillment in your opinion is how you are is that your measure or is it simply how you feel. I work because I enjoy working and I am sure that if I stop enjoying working I will not work. as much as just being really as not being I'm not being glib to be you know Annoying um Work because I enjoy working and if I and if for some reason I didn't reinforce them at work, I'm sure my amount of work would decrease, there's a I think about human needs, yes, but are there any human needs that are being sacrificed by always working on your case?

I'm fine, um, yeah, I mean, which gets to the point of measurement. which is like how do I feel? I'm fine, yes. Many people analyze many things too much and I don't think well. Yes Yes. I spend a lot of time thinking about death and things like that. but usually I use them as frameworks to give myself permission to do the things I want to do and just do them without hearing the Judgment that I know other people would probably throw at my life and tell me why you don't have kids because I haven't wanted it yet and that's okay and if I want later I'll say it, okay, I'll tell you about an argument I got into so I was in you I got into an argument I got into an argument with my stepmother so Leila's father is whatever, no It matters, it's okay, it wasn't her different person, it's okay anyway I was at the kitchen table and she said she would never want your life and I was like she's so unbalanced I was like well how was she like do you feel like Am I not physically fit?

I was like do you feel like it in terms of business financially? I'm not in shape do you feel like romantically like my marriage is? in some way like it's not good and then I would like Where do you feel that I am unbalanced or is it that I do more than you or I do things differently than you do because to the same extent I would not want your life and that is? Why don't I have your life and that's why you don't have my life, so it's good that we don't want each other's lives because that would be difficult, right?

And that was the discussion we got into. with so many words and it all came down to the idea that I think that person was judging herself because maybe on some level maybe she did want some aspect of the life that we had and I hope that doesn't sound like that. It's strange, but I think we all do this, we see something that looks like us and then we look at our Delta and then we say man, I would like that or we throw rocks at it so we don't feel bad. our ego and then, no, there's something wrong with it, they're not happy at all and I would just say that if there's one thing I'm going to try to beat the shit out of myself until I die, it's that I care what other people think and I think everyone cares what what other people think and I think that over time we care a little less and that's why I feel like I'm 30 better than I was 10 years ago and maybe in 10 years I'll be 30 better than that, but those 30 have been very meaningful to me because it's allowed me to do things like I got married in eight days, neither of my parents were there and I'm fine because that's what I wanted to do and I work with my wife every hour of every day and people say: it's that healthy, I I mean, I don't know, we like it, why do you care?

How does it affect you? It's a trap, although yes, I can identify in many ways, yes, in many ways, with who you are. I mean and I mean my team will know that instinctively, what are the traps we can fall into? One of the risks when we have that perspective is that we project that expectation onto other people who work with us. I think entrepreneurs a lot of times when they have that drive that sometimes is driven by a shame or an insecurity that comes from their childhood too often, um, very often, maybe not too often, but so often, um, that when they direct people who don't have the same insecurity, shame, whatever that predisposition is, you know. work addiction whatever you want to call it, they have a hard time relating, you know, yeah, have you heard that?

Sure, but I think it's okay, have you had to work on it? Layla is better. I say this Jessica, but realistically, I think we try to maintain a culture. high performance and we're like in the projection pieces on the front, we think these are the values ​​that we have here, they are examples of those values ​​at play, so it's like your shift ends at five and someone asks a question It will take 30 minutes to respond in 4 59 what are you doing? It's an interview question and we need you to be honest because if you say you would work but in reality you wouldn't be satisfied, you're not going to do either.

We Justice because you will come in and you will be fired quickly and that will be difficult for you and for us so we want you to win at anything you do in life so Layla is very important as a human being first in terms of how she does everything we do in the company, it's human first and then everything else can be seen, that's why we're the yin and yang for this kind of thing, um, but I think it's really just about setting expectations. and being very Truthful and as transparent as humanly possible about this is what we expect.

If you don't like that or if your worldview is contrary to this, then you shouldn't work here because there is another company that totally shares your worldview and you would do very well. There are other people who feel like misfits in the companies they're in and then they work all the time and are frustrated because no one else does and everyone tells them they should slow down and come hang out with us because we'll respond lazily to questions. 5 a.m. m. on Saturday because we're in it, but I just radically reject that there is a right way to do things.

In that example, you touched on something I wanted to talk about that is related. in your first book, I think you offer offers for positions to people, yes, I read that you said that if there is one skill you have it is making offers, what do you mean by making offers? So deals are the terms of trade, so right before I start my first book. gym I went to this weekend workshop to learn how to market and get this, this is 2013. It was on Facebook ads and I got lucky so I learned how to run Facebook ads in 2013.

Two weeks before I started my gym, here is when you get clicks from Penny and you can put a girl in a bikini and say weight loss, click here and it will run, so in this I hadn't opened my gym yet and the guy was like a gym marketing guy andHe said Do you want to know another sales secret? Because you could see that she was head and shoulders above all the other guys who owned gyms, except May, and I said yes, because at that time she had never sold anything. I knew the word sales was a thing, that's how out of it I was, and then she pulled me to the side and asked me that question.

I took out my notebook to learn the secret of sales as if it were a line and it was kind. What did she say: make people an offer? They would feel stupid telling you no and I like to write it down and highlight it and that actually became a core concept that we do in every business we have. It's like how can we improve this offering? How can we make it more valuable? And that's why defining value was such a key thing because people like to provide more value and create valuable content. I wonder what this means and that's why we reduce the value. into four variables and then there are things that enhance the value but like core variables and then things that enhance it so one is like what is the overall outcome of the customer's dream and so a difference in juxtaposition is like for guys if I say I can help you make more money versus I can help you lose weight, most guys would pay more for something that will give them more relative status and so between two guys, two categories of results, This one will be more valuable, okay, great, now into everything. and let's call it weight loss because it's easy that everyone can understand within weight loss, anything else between a five dollar e-book and a fifty thousand dollar liposuction surgery, the difference in those prices are the other variables of value , so the second variable is perceived as achievement, which is if I buy this.

What probability do I have of obtaining the result? If I have a surgeon who is going to do this liposuction, for example, and it's the first surgery they've done outside of medical school and there's another surgeon who's done ten thousand and has ten thousand five stars, which one would I be most likely to do? ten thousand five star surgery, even if it actually takes less time for that guy to do it? How unfair, but my perception of liking getting what I want is significantly higher, so it's actually the opposite of risk. Those are the things we try and improve on the offerings we try and we have a very compelling dream outcome.

We try to make it very likely that they will succeed and give. There are many elements that make someone feel like they are likely to succeed in the bottom half of the equation, so it's a fraction, there are two in the top two at the bottom, there is a time lag between when they buy and the time they get it, so if someone could click a button on a website and immediately look at their stomach and have a six pack that would be incredibly valuable on the other hand if it takes them two years to get it, it's significantly less valuable and so the same reason you have to fight with someone to buy a personal training package is to spend an hour and a half to get them to buy a package of 20 trading sessions, while women walk into the office from the doctor to do liposuction and they drop 20 times that amount of money because the delay is nothing, what you put on the table you wake up and you are thin at that moment the last variable is the effort and sacrifice, which are two sides of the same coin, so effort are the things you have to start doing that you don't want to do as a result of this purchase.

Get up early and it hurts, like in the training example. Eat. The foods you hate. On the other hand, sacrifice is the things you have to give up and what you don't. I don't want to give up as a result of this purchase and therefore I could be sleeping eating the foods that you enjoy on Margarita Mondays, whatever that may be, and when you look at these variables, each of them has an evil twin, right? They perceive you as a Vegeta, which is the positive and then you have risk, which is the negative, you have time delay, which is the negative version, you have speed, which is the positive version, you have effort and sacrifice.

We have the right facility and so when we try to make an offer, we try to think about each of these value elements and think about how we can maximize the benefits, make it very likely that they will hit it, paint the vision. that they have it and then at the bottom minimize the lag time between the time they join, the time they get it and how much they have to do because in a perfect world, the time someone says: I want that thing, that beautiful dream result would be virtually guaranteed to be obtained, it would happen immediately and it would be effortless and I think that is the perfect idea that we look at in terms of value and as entrepreneurs we innovate in our way to continue trying to chisel towards that perfect ideal result that In I'll never actually get to the other variables, they're like scarcity, if I have one bottle of Gatorade left on planet Earth, it's significantly more valuable.

I didn't change anything about the bottle itself, but it's significantly more valuable than if there were unlimited Gatorades. The correct urgency is if Gatorade, no matter how many Gatorades there are on planet Earth, I will give a different example if JK Rowling decides that she will no longer sell digital copies of Harry Potter starting tomorrow there will be many sales of the digital copy. Although there are unlimited units, scarcity is a function of units, urgency is a function of time, so scarcity and urgency increase value by improving those other four variables, there is more, but those are the core things that We look at it in terms of when we're trying to make a bid for a business and that becomes very relevant when we're trying to increase the price of a business that we take on, so I'll give you an example: we had a PR firm that we invested in. was a generic PR firm for small business owners and they had a very high churn rate, but they had a really good sales engine.

I thought it was cool, there was something here, but I think we need a tweet. I really like the founder 85 of his clients. They were small business owners and in three or four months, 15 of their customers bought the most expensive package and stayed forever and I thought, hey, crazy idea, what if we only served these customers and they were people who wanted to raise funds very? different than traditional, like dry cleaning store polymer or whatever, so we remade the whole business model to find just that niche where we just cold called and cold emailed people who were in that such a narrow window we were able to multiply our prices by 10 because we and we went up more. response rates to emails than before because now we address and talk very specifically to an avatar and now we can provide a lot more value to that specific person and that's maybe if Caleb responded from a business perspective like Solving that equation is probably what which I enjoy the most because that's how I feel like I've unlocked the most value in a business, which is what are all these good things that this business has? things you can do well, is there a way we can repackage it for a specific client that will make what we do significantly more valuable to them and then that's what we try and repackage and when we do that, that's often when I can like the launch of the gym.

He had the knowledge of how to help people lose weight. I had the nutrition plans. He knew how to sell. I knew how to market, but it was only when I like to rearrange the variables that I went from doing some. million dollars a year in Topline income and basically no profit for millions and millions and millions of dollars a year in Top Line and bottom line profits just by rearranging the variables and that was so ingrained in me that from that point on I thought I only have We have to make things that are so good that people feel stupid saying no and if we can't get enough people to say yes, we have to improve the offering and for me that has been the one thing that affects everything. of business is the greatest leverage that I think you can do in business, that's why it was the first book because answering the question what do I sell is the first book, the second book leads to who do I sell it to. drives well and that's the second book, but that affects prices, it affects profits, it affects marketing, it affects sales, it affects delivery, how to receive the offer, it affects everything and it is one of the most difficult things to change because it affects everything, but it also has the greatest ability to unlock amazing things. wealth or value in a business and the concept there is incredibly transferable when you look at the equation, in some parts similar to an equation we used to have for competitions when we were trying to get people to sign up for competitions, the idea when we looked at it as if It was an equation where there is little investment at one end, so just click here and you'll be in.

High perception that you have a chance of winning, so if there are 10 prizes and you can see those 10 participants, your brain goes crazy. Well, all you had to do was click and then on the competition side, we thought a lot about credibility because that's a big factor in competitions, like do I think anyone is going to win and do I trust that these people even give a prize. It's even the same and it's even the same in content when you think of a title for your YouTube videos, five minutes, six pack abs, yeah, it's a fantastic equation, small investment, high potential reward, apparently, um, and that you also know that there is even another one.

Something I've thought about and haven't necessarily been able to explain, which is why people are more likely to click on things. I guess it's easy when he says things like five steps to finding love versus how to find love in five steps. I guess it's that ease that Point feels more accessible just five steps yeah chasing negative achievements like what's my risk of not achieving if there are five steps that feel easier than just how maybe hmm when you think about where you are at your journey um as an entrepreneur and you think about it maybe as Steps how far are you on that ladder?

I feel like every entrepreneur feels like they're just getting started, like if you talk to 70 year old guys, they're like I'm just getting started, you know, I mean, I'm about to cross a decade of being one. I am right. at the decade point for me from the first business I started to now, so I feel like I have a few seasons left, you know, if I can keep living, which I would be excited about if I could, let me ask you. different question Caleb in the corner who works for you who is your creative director if Caleb told me you know Caleb told you he told Alex I want to be a millionaire yes what would you tell him what advice would you give him he says listen I've heard you doing all these podcasts you're running I've been rolling the camera but I've been rolling I've been listening yeah and this millionaire stuff sounds amazing yeah so what advice do you have?

How old are you Caleb? 29 What advice would you give 29-year-old Caleb if he called you Alex? How do you know me? How do you think I will become a millionaire? There are many ways to do it, it just depends on the path you want to take. First of all, say you can stay at Acquisition.com, that will probably happen in a long enough time at Horizon just because we're going to get really big, we're already pretty big and we're just getting started so I really believe that. and that's 100, my goal is for every person we have to become very, very rich because I'm going to die and it's not going to matter anyway and if everyone else can do something too good, then that's one way, another bath .

Do you take off and go off on your own and start a business of some kind? So it depends on whether you want to do the business itself, what your core skill is, which would be like media and maybe media related services or using the skill that you have. you have the media in an opportunity to reach out to two or three other people that you maybe co-found with that have other complementary skills and then you just run that division or part of the business, within a broader context and that's a classic question like I'm very good at making wallets.

What I do? Well, you can continue making them and then when you can't make as many as you have demand for because you're so good at it, you can raise the price. and keep raising prices until eventually you become Versace or wallets and you make tons of profits, but you don't have tons of units and that's fine and you are a luxury brand or you put the sale to the business owner. hat and you say, okay, how do I mechanize the wallet creation process and become more entrepreneurial? So I think it's like do I want to be the artist or do I want to be the entrepreneur.

Both are fine, it depends on which one you feel. as if you had a more natural inclination or a greater chance of success in doing so. I like the business game. I've played a lot of different games in terms of industries. I like the game in general. I don't feel like I have a particular art like I don't think I'm really good atno aspect of the business I feel like I've been decent enough to not impose any limitations like I'm not a great copywriter but I'm good enough that that's I'm not going to be the limiter like I am.

I'm good enough to hire and I can make sure that's not the limiting factor, that's how I think about it in terms of business growth. Generally it would be the same with Caleb, it's like we have to identify with the constraint of the system and then unconstrain it when you say Talent Accumulation. If I say that several times, what do you mean by that? So this is one of my favorite topics, a lot of skills, like one plus one equals five when you put them together, so let's say you have someone who is very good at math at the beginning and as a skill, it's not very monetizable, okay?

Well, then you learn accounting. Okay, now you had a propensity for mathematics, but you learned something that has value in the business world. Okay, so you learn how to get your CPA. Now you become an accountant. Okay, it's more valuable. Then you start studying about tax laws and insurance. You're much more valuable then you learn how capital markets work and how debt markets work properly and you understand how mergers and acquisitions work and all of a sudden you're a CFO and then you learn how to sell and market. Suddenly you're now a Rainmaker and you still needed to be good at math, but when you stack these other skills on top of it, the original math skill becomes significantly more valuable when you have these skills on top of it, but each requires the previous one, so one of the things i hate a little bit about the business world is that they learn something new and then screw up the old thing, it's like I'm not bothered, but the teacher who taught me arithmetic because I learned algebra, one was necessary for the next, so, like Entrepreneurs, it often takes self-awareness to tell where I am in my skill accumulation.

Correct adventure and every skill, every skill. What you add to your tool belt of skills makes the rest of your skills more valuable, which is why I think it's so cool, which is why I'm a big proponent of education in general, i.e. the mission of economic business acquisition. accessible to everyone, that's why we put all this stuff out there for free because if we can give people enough skills, they'll be able to accumulate them on their own and then just achieve whatever they want in a totally different way if you let me go there it's like you look at Jay-Z, right?

Maybe you're someone who naturally had the right beat and then all of a sudden you learned to rap, okay, you took the beat from it, you wrapped it up, okay, and then you did it. his first CD is okay and then he learned how to promote, oh significantly more valuable, and then he learned how to make a label and then he learns how to recruit other artists, so he still needed to learn how to promote the other artists if you didn't know how to promote him everything, you wouldn't be able to do it, but once he had the label he gained significantly more influence in promotional ability and was able to recognize people because of his ability to rap on Rhythm and such. like each of these scale stacks at the top and then finally peaked at Beyoncé as her main skill.

I'm just kidding, but no, but that's the idea, I like it and that's why I just want to learn the skill, find the next one. skill and the good thing is that it doesn't even matter how disparate the skills are if Jay-Z is really good at math and understands the capital markets and understands the label that combines them into another cool concoction, my little French word for concoction. of skills that is exclusive to Jay-Z and the more you play, the more skills you get and the more exclusive you become. The combination of skills is and that to me is the most interesting part of business and, like education in general, I stumbled. through a somewhat similar but perhaps adjacent idea in my career, when I found out that my company went public on a stock exchange in Europe, then I found out about an investment bank when we were having the meetings with the banks which we attend.

This Roadshow brought together 20 different investment banks. We were considering an IPO in another country. I was told our business would be worth four times as much if it were on a different stock market. If we moved it to the NASDAQ, it would be worth exactly the same business. four times as much, which meant that my net worth would be changed by simply taking the exact same business and moving it to a different stock exchange and I thought about that a couple of years later when I was thinking about the skill set I had acquired during my career, which was this marketing, social media, and entrepreneurship skill set, and I was thinking that not only do you have to have the skill, but you also have to know which market to apply it in and what ended up happening.

I've never told this story before, but um. I looked for an industry where my skills were in leasing, but with the highest demand and the highest profitability, and it turned out that that industry, in terms of social media marketing and storytelling, I felt was most in demand and would give back the highest value for the companies that we were about to do an IPO because, essentially, when you go to do an IPO, if you have a good story, your valuation can vary by hundreds of millions or in the case from the first company I worked with when their IPO was listed at 3 billion, um billion, yeah and So with my social media and marketing skill set, I could do what with that I could go help a gym local and get paid a thousand dollars or I could go help a company that was in the run-up to an IPO you-know-where.

I can potentially add hundreds of millions of value and take seven million, yeah, as part of a stock deal, so leaving my first company, the stock deal that I had was valued somewhere between four, uh, I'm going to say that between Miss Penske is the stock price. fluctuated, but I think on the day of the IPO, the capital that I got for the nine to 12 months of work that I had done was worth in the region of seven to eight million dollars, nine months of work, yeah, basically self-employed , yeah, you know, same thing. skills stack, but applied to an industry that would pay me more for the same skills, um, so I thought a lot about that and ultimately that's why we started our company, which is now called Flight Story.

We have a um, probably Airing moment. about a hundred of us started the company about a year and a half ago, oh crazy, and that's basically applying the skill set that we have to industries where they need it and we started in the IPO market, we did a little bit of work on this. um biotech market um and now we've expanded, but people don't think much about it, you like my skill set, where is it in the highest morning? I can pay more one hundred percent. I completely agree with everything you just said. I also think it's a skill like I want someone to tell me like oh yeah, totally and that's like information to me, it's like uh you know, the biggest debt, one of the things I love to say this, but like The biggest debt we all pay is ignorance, so I heard this close at this launch years ago and this guy came on stage and he and he said, Hey ma'am, she said, how much do you make?

She was like fifty thousand dollars. You're at fifty thousand dollars on the board and then you wrote a million dollars on top of the fifty thousand and he subtracted it and said 950,000. He said you pay life 950,000 every year for not knowing how to make a million. dollars a year and it was a crazy concept and I was using it to close the audience, but I like the most expensive thing we all pay for is information we don't know and that's both terrifying and incredibly exciting. because like fish in the best ponds, like a good fisherman he knows where to fish and everyone can put a hook and a thing and stick it over the water, but like the best fisherman he knows where and when, etc., and that's exactly the story who said he had the hook and the reel and all that, but I went to where the best fishing was and I liked that skill, the same work, yes, the same amount of time, the same rod or zeros, one of the things in the first book they are like if you want to sell better clients, so if you want to sell better clients, yes, like that, it's exactly the same as what you just said, which is like I have to do some chromatic work to optimize the conversion rate of a website. that's ecommerce and I work for a store that makes a million dollars a year and I say great, I can increase your air conversion set by 20.

Okay, great, now that makes 1.2 million dollars a year. I gained 200,000 in value. and maybe I can get 10 of that, I get 20 grand, okay, I do the same job for a company that makes 100 million dollars a year. I make them 20 million dollars for my raise of 20 and I get 10 of that and I make two million dollars with twenty. one billion two million one hundred better, a lot of controversy around that, um, but it's true and then find the people and a different way of saying it is find the people who value what you have more and I'm sure you've heard this, have you heard the story of father and son with the car?

No, it's okay, maybe I'll have fun, it's okay, no, it's okay, it's okay, so there's a dad who gives his son a beat-up old car and says, "You know, hey, I don't know if it drives." or not, but you can take it to the um, the dealership down the street, see if you can trade it in and get some money. He's fine, so he goes down the street, he goes to the dealership, they tell him we'll give you a thousand dollars for it. and he comes, you know, he listens to it. He comes. At home it's like Dad, they told him: give me a thousand dollars, okay, it's like going to the impound yard where, you know, they break down cars just for Metal. look what they'll give you, he goes there and uh, the guy says, ah, I don't know, this could be 500 metal dollars.

A kid like you know comes home and he's like dad, you know, he said it was going to be 500. He says okay, he says, hey, go to that antique dealer, see if they have anything that uses a car lot and it's okay, so he goes there and talks to the guy who comes home super excited, he says dad. You won't believe it, it's like this is a historic car, there are only like 10 of them. On the left, he says it's worth a hundred thousand dollars, so the father smiles and says, and the least I want you to know is that it's not necessarily about who you are, but about the people who value you the most and therefore, you can talk to different people. and see the people who value you and I just love that story because from one point of view it's a great business story in terms of selling cell phones, where the fish are, where the big fish are, like if you, if you're going.

Hook Fish is going to go where the whales are, it takes the same work, but a lot of it is just belief, people don't believe it's possible, so a lot of times you have to keep leveling up and sell your first ten thousand dollars . what you sell your first hundred thousand dollars what you sell your first multi-million dollar package you realize it's exactly the same thing it's so maybe if I'm on the list if anyone's listening right now it's the same thing it's exactly the same thing and sometimes it's easier like you know you've seen that meme that says, so what exactly am I going to get for this 50 thing?

And then it's like, the fifty thousand dollar customers liked the cable installed yesterday, what more do you need? and that's totally true, um, but I think there's a skill in understanding where to fish, certainly a skill, um, information, it's information, even knowing that there was another lake there and that's why hearing conversations like this is so valuable to people because you lift a curtain and say what you guys were behind the whole time partying, that's how my business life has been, it's kind of gradual, like I think I heard Kevin Hart describe to Joe Rogan once where he said there's another room , Yeah. where these people are playing this other set of money games, yeah, and then when you walk into that room, you're almost mad because no one told you this room existed, but then there's another door, yeah, and then you walk through there, maybe a couple. years later and you find these other people, these billionaires who are playing another series of games and you say what and they're chilling, yeah, they've only talked to guys, they're not even doing anything difficult, why can you go to tell it?

I know the games that you guys have been playing here, yeah, and then again, the frustration is and that's what I feel in my trading life, it's been like when I had the jump, I'm loading, I don't know, I remember my First we found our first 2014 deck loading. I remember the package we did gold, silver and bronze, it was like, you know, the package200 for similar support and then 500 and then the gold package, you'll end up with everything for a thousand dollars and I remember. one of my first clients accepted that and then I think today it's the only difference, okay, there are skills that have increased, but the information is the most important thing, knowing how to do it, you know, when you think about the curtains that have been raised and they've really changed the games you play from a monetary value perspective, like when someone turns the lights on for you, of course, yeah, is there anything else that comes to mind, like big macro games?

Yeah, um, I think a big, you know, when I'm the big one, I'll answer it with the ladder. steps of how each order of magnitude changes my income, so when I went from being an employee to being a freelancer, I went from making four figures a month to five figures a month and that was for me like I was now in control of the level . On top of that I started having other people working for me. I even knew it was possible. It sounds crazy, like I'm saying you can hire people because my members at my gym said you know other people can work here. cleaning the floor and doing the marketing class and teaching, it's like I didn't think that through and then I went to six figures a month and then I stayed there from there.

Did the transformation business still have the same organizational structure? another degree of leverage and so the next leverage review was I started licensing, so it's digital, so the cost, you know, the cost of the products was basically nothing and then that's when the Things started to skyrocket, taking me to seven figures a month and then eight. figures a month was using leverage through equity, which is where we are now and I imagine nine figures a month will probably be some level of technology or more media on my part, but all of these things have to do with leverage and So this is one of my favorite topics in the whole world, but if Define takes advantage of the difference between what you put in and what you get out, then if you have a lot of leverage but a little, you will get a lot if you have no leverage or you have a low leverage, you put a lot, You get a little and a lot of times people who listen to this and don't make as much money as they would like, they put in a lot and they don't get a lot of leverage opportunities, so understanding how to get more for what you put in is the game in general, so the first level I described was Labor, it's just work first.

I was working for someone else, then I worked for myself and I got other people to work for me, the first level in each of those levels was more leverage I had media, which is what I was licensing, so another level of leverage I did once and I was able to license that Infinity on top. I have capital from that. I can take capital. I don't have to sacrifice time to get something in return, so it's high input-output. Above that it would be some kind of technology, in theory you build the code once, obviously you continue to improve the code, but in theory you build a thing once and then a million people can use it, so you want to accumulate as many types of leverage as you can and as much of it as you can because, like Joe Rogan also has a show and someone else has a podcast, they're both technically using media as their vehicle to leverage, but he has a lot more, so It's not just like I'm going to use it. all of this, yes, but it's also to what extent, but just like Facebook had other people's money, it used the media, it had other people's work.

Max leveraged Amazon, same thing, they used all the Leverage elements and maxed them all out and um, that's that. at least the curtain and Naval talks about this if you're familiar with Naval ravacon um he talks about these things like the P the elements of leverage are four types of leverage um and understanding that for me has been kind of a blueprint for wealth in general. and then you know Capital, there are degrees of capital like you, first you can get your friends and family to give you money, then you can know institutional money and then you can get public money right, which you know you saw like the The money of the IPO, like the fact that the NASDAQ was Forex, the Dusseldorf exchange, is that where it was good, there is significantly more capital in that market and therefore it works the same way, more zeros, and that's why I love it this topic because I think it's fundamentally people who move faster in life don't actually move faster they get more with each step are you happy?

I'm happy Max Stoke you know I haven't been asked this question in a long time, but yeah, I thought I'd ask because it's kind of similar to what we've been talking about today, but if happiness was like a list of ingredients and it was a recipe, would it be? something is missing from your recipe that would make you even happier and sometimes that recipe? it's about balancing the ingredients, you need two eggs and 100 eggs, yes, a cup of flour, yes, for me it's always been about autonomy. I should be able to, I want to, I want to be able to do what I find interesting, and that has been the core of this and what I do will change, but the core of having the freedom to do it has been the core of this and therefore, For me I don't think my freedom has changed, I mean, not in recent history, my freedom hasn't fundamentally changed.

Either way, I would say that I have the same level of satisfaction as last year, but I find commitment in what I do and that is what I will give you my definition of Happiness, which is doing what you like. having to do with the people you like and do it as much as you can and that's my definition simple, interesting, I've tried, I've tried to figure that out as a professional, I guess it's not even a professional thing, but I've tried to figure it out and summarize it . It's a wonderful summary. The place I've come to is that if you're surrounded by people you love, you're doing something that challenges you, which I think is interesting.

You have summed it up. just saying things you like, but yes, the challenges you face give you a sense of advancement and progress toward a meaningful goal and that's a subjective thing, it could be raising a child or making a million dollars, whatever. I think that's what I call it. my echo guy, if I find if I'm in that state and it's a state, um, I guess I'm happy that we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest asks a question for the next guest, ah, not knowing who are. I'm going to ask it.

I'm terrified why everyone gets so scared when I do this. Isn't my question scary? As everyone. Someone is going to like it. Try pasting the note. Alright. I'll think about it. What is going to happen to us? I have these conversation cards where we've taken all the questions written in this book and turned them into cards so people can play at home. In fact, I'll pass them to you and ask you to pick one. conversation card okay I've picked out a couple of them that I think are Stitch UPS so let me go from The Middle okay and the question is which failures do you value the most?

I'll give two. I'm so grateful I hated them. the job I had because I think I'm the type of person so it was hard for me to leave that if I had really liked a job I don't think I would have left it and I think I would have gone to business school and I did the following, as if If I had a job, worked for people, whatever it was, whatever I enjoyed enough, maybe I wouldn't be where I am now and I think I appreciate the fact that it was so miserable that it turned out to change like that, that that job changed my life. from Soul's perspective, um, going through what I did with Layla.

I appreciate those moments because a lot of people live the worst-case scenario years into their marriage, years into their relationship, and then somehow. Like seeing what the other person is made of, I have to do that before I marry that person, so that there have been no surprises since then and it is something that is like shared misery to a certain extent, but as spiritual strength or as spiritual as you want. to call it um, I know she has my back and there's an element to that story that I didn't tell, but when we really needed money at one point, I flew Leila out to do this pitch, I couldn't go with her and I actually broke up with her , but I thought I couldn't do this now, so for 28 days we weren't together and most girls probably would have said, "Fuck this guy, but instead, Layla set the all-time record for a launch that hasn't broken yet and when she came back I was like she stood tall when everything in my life was falling apart around me and she made it happen and I knew that wherever I wanted to go I needed someone like that with me and so I appreciate the failures of that entire season because there were many um because I wouldn't know what I have today if I hadn't gone through those tests with her so man, that's beautiful in the Diary of a CEO we have hundreds of questions that our guests have left. and we have put them on these cards and on these cards you have the question that the CEO left in the diver the name of the person who wrote the question and if you turn it over there is a QR code If you scan that code, you can see which guests answered the question and watching the video of them answering it every time I do this podcast and every time we ask the kind of questions we ask here, I feel a tremendous sense of kinship. to the guest and our goal with these cards is that you can create that feeling of connection through vulnerability at home with the people you love most and I have good news for you starting today you can add your name to the waiting list to Be first in line to get your own set of conversation cards at conversationcards.com.

We have another question, which is the question that people leave in the book. I thought I had it right. I thought that was it. I think this is the new one. tradition I'm talking about old tradition one last question Alex, but you nailed it, so I'll be honest, you stuck that landing. When do you feel most emotionally connected to yourself? Literally my heartbeat thought was when I'm working. like Harpy's first thought and then like I have to be really specific when I'm writing. I had a writing scholarship after high school. I was deputy editor of the newspaper.

I was editor in chief. from the literary magazine when I was in high school I enjoyed writing um it's one of those things that for me, like you said, like a challenge, like writing is a thing, it's a monster that just gets stronger and stronger and you you get better and better at When you write and you see the flaws in your writing, the better you get at writing, so it always seems to match the difficulty, it matches my ability at all times, so that's what I experienced to the greatest degree of fluidity in the most regular feedings. a lot of sense once there are a lot of questions that we've also talked about before Alex, thank you so much for your time and being here has been an incredibly diverse, enlightening, honest, vulnerable, inspiring and soulful conversation.

Much respect and I know for a fact that you are just at the beginning of your journey. I asked you about the ladder. I know you just stepped foot on the first step and I think it will be amazing to see. um the next seasons of your life, because you are destined for incredible things, there is absolutely no doubt about that, so thank you Alex, I appreciate your time. I appreciate that thank you, those are kind words. I've been a cool drinker for about four years. Sort of so much that I ended up investing in the company and I play a role on the board of directors of the company, but they also very kindly sponsored this podcast and to be honest, I've never said this before, but everyone believed in this podcast.

Before anyone else, CEO Julian, before I even launched the podcast, told me how successful it would be and that heel would support it, and I have enormous gratitude towards them for that support, but an even greater sense of gratitude for the fact. which have helped me stay nutritionally complete during the chaos and hustle of my insanely busy business schedule, so if you haven't tried it here (I hope most of you have at least tried it by now), give it a try, it's an option incredible. a way to try to stay on track nutritionally if you have a busy schedule and let me know what you think send me a tweet and DM tag me let me know what you think quick as you guys know we are lucky to have blue jeans as a sponsor and supporter from this podcast for anyone who doesn't know blue jeans is an online video conferencing tool that allows you to have fast, good quality online meetings without any of those glitches that you would normally find in other meetings.

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Send me a private message. Tweet whatever works for you, let me know. how do you find it oh