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Ex-US defense chief says he'd shoot down Chinese spy balloon

Mar 14, 2024
A Chinese spy

balloon

flies over the United States. It was seen high above Montana, where the US military has a nuclear missile silo. The Pentagon is closely monitoring this issue and

says

it does not pose a military or physical threat. We were told that the

balloon

is the size of three buses. A senior

defense

official

says

President Biden has been advised not to

shoot

it down because falling debris could injure people on the ground. The discovery of the balloons is shaking the Capitol. We now learn that the Gang of Eight staff members have received a report.
ex us defense chief says he d shoot down chinese spy balloon
Joining us now in all of this is our

chief

national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto. Jim, good morning. Wow. Listen, it's a slow-moving Chinese surveillance balloon floating over the mainland. The continental situation of the United States is understandably disturbing. As I understand it, until last night it had not left our airspace. This is what we know so far. First of all, this is an image captured from the ground. It was visible to the naked eye flying at about 65,000 feet, about twice the height of commercial airliners. But much lower than surveillance satellites, as you said, the size of three buses.
ex us defense chief says he d shoot down chinese spy balloon

More Interesting Facts About,

ex us defense chief says he d shoot down chinese spy balloon...

Two flights were diverted for safety. Military leaders considered it, but ultimately decided against the president's decision to

shoot

it down. But the idea that that was under consideration shows how seriously American officials and the president were taking the idea of ​​a Chinese spy balloon floating over the United States. You mentioned what I was flying over, right, the Montana Malmstrom Air Base that has ICBMs there. Something China would naturally be interested in examining more closely. This happened before. Jim? Has. It has happened before on US soil. But there is something I want to point out in terms of surveillance capabilities.
ex us defense chief says he d shoot down chinese spy balloon
This was not a huge leap in what China can see. Why is that? Because China is sending spy satellites over the United States. Every 90 minutes is the Earth's orbit. And those satellites have at least the same surveillance capacity. They are very advanced. So in terms of what China could collect from this globe, it's not a huge step forward. And, by the way, we must keep in mind that, and this is something that worries us, is that China is one of the most active countries in terms of launching new satellites. Just look at the growth that dates back to just six figures in 2000.
ex us defense chief says he d shoot down chinese spy balloon
Now it's close to 100 per year. Frankly, the only other country that competes with that is the United States. And if you add it all up, in terms of satellites, China is second only to the United States in terms of what they have floating above there right now. Once again, everyone is looking down on the US collecting intelligence all the time. Last night I spoke with several American officials. So this isn't a big win in terms of surveillance, but it is a big win in terms of the audacity to fly a slow-moving surveillance balloon over the continent, not over the continental U.S. or over the U.S.
The President, you and I could see it happening. Yes. And just before Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, goes to meet with senior Chinese officials. I'm certainly going to change the discussion there, Jim. Absolutely. And by the way, as you know, Poppy, those decisions aren't made by accident. You can see that perhaps it is a message to the US Secretary of State as he prepares to go to Beijing. Very good, Jim, thank you very much. Joining us now for more perspective on this is former President Trump's former Secretary of Defense, Mark Esper. Thank you very much for being here with us this morning.
I guess the number one question I have is when the White House makes the decision not to shoot it down, do you agree with that decision? What kind of options do you have here? Well, first of all, this surprises me. I think it is a shameless act for the Chinese to do this. We were just talking about whether it has more or less intelligence value than what they currently have. I don't think we know. Therefore, my interest would not necessarily be to tear it down, but to tear it down. So we can capture the equipment and understand exactly what they do.
Are they taking pictures? Are they intercepting signals? What are they doing? And what is the level of technical capacity? It will tell us a lot about what they are trying to do. What are they trying to learn and what is their ability to do so now. Otherwise I would definitely take it down as long as there is no risk to the people on the ground. Yes. So it surprises you that this is floating over the continental US. Oh, absolutely. Not just in the continental United States, but also at our missile ranges and our strategic bomber bases.
And it's a big concern to me that they're gathering intelligence and obviously they're looking for something. They need information that I guess they can't get through satellites. And that's why I would be very interested in getting it. Whatever the payload is and understand exactly what they're looking for and why. And then, of course, it gives us a good idea of ​​their level of technological capability. The Chinese have been spying on us for years, for decades. We know that the FBI tells us that every 12 hours they open an espionage case. For me, this is a shameless act.
And that is why, at the political level, we have to go back. We have to defend American sovereignty and we have to make it clear to the Chinese that we are not going to tolerate this. Is that your idea of ​​why you would be flying over Montana because of that air base that maintains and operates those ICBMs? Well, that would be my first guest. But until we know what kind of instrumentation they have in the payload, we won't know for sure. There are other facilities or things we do in that part of the country. That's why I would like to get that technology and find out.
But I repeat, that is at the level of intelligence. On a political level, we need to send a very clear message that we will not tolerate this behavior. And now, look, maybe there's some counterintelligence value that we see in letting it slide. Perhaps there is always more to this than meets the eye. And I wouldn't be aware of that now. So I give the Pentagon some space. But those are the big questions that I think people should be asking members of Congress as they dig into this. What kind of options does the United States have to respond, to send the message that you think it should send?
Well, again, first, capturing the team or taking it down would be a strong message. Obviously there is management of the country, but we should also increase our activities. You know, remember that when Speaker Pelosi visited Taiwan last summer, the Chinese stepped up their crossings of the Taiwan center line with both ships and planes. And I never had the feeling that we responded strongly. You have to face the Chinese face to face. We cannot be deterred and we cannot allow the Chinese Communist Party to pressure us. They will only respond to the resolution, to the commitment. And we have to prove it when we face Beijing.
Mark, as we were reporting on this yesterday, we heard from the Pentagon and they say this actually happened before, during the last administration, when you were Secretary of Defense, during that period. Were you aware about this? How was it resolved? What can you tell us about it? I read that it surprised me. I never remember anyone coming into my office or reading anything about the Chinese having a surveillance balloon over the United States. And obviously I would know if that had happened when I was Secretary of Defense. I would remember it for sure. I mean, my focus was on implementing the national

defense

strategy to confront the Chinese as the biggest strategic threat facing our country.
That's why I liked everything Chinese. We created a red cell inside the Pentagon to take care of that. We reoriented military doctrine and the way we train and fight against all those Chinese-centric things. So I would be very curious to know why Chinese surveillance balloons fly over the United States. So that sure would have caught my attention. I don't remember it ever happening. If I were in the Pentagon and this happened and the Secretary of State was on a trip to China. What would be your advice to the Secretary of State? Would you say cancel the trip?
Would you say make sure this is the first thing they mention? What would be your advice? Well, I suspect Secretary Pompeo also shared my views regarding China, and I don't know how he would have reacted. I mean, sometimes you cancel trips like this or sometimes you go prepared to make a very, very strong statement that China is violating our sovereignty. And so there are different ways to approach this. And it just depends on the broader dynamics. And look. On the other hand, I think the Pentagon made a good move regarding expanding our access to Philippine bases.
This was something we were working on during my tenure at the Pentagon, in addition to how to expand U.S. access to bases in the Philippines. And it's very good that we did that because it allows us to dress to address Chinese military capabilities should war break out. Do you think that in the Indo-Pacific, Blinken should cancel his trip? That is an option that should be considered. But I think we need to know more and evaluate what is happening in a broader context. Interestingly, the Chinese don't outright deny it like they normally would. They're saying, well, we would never violate anyone's sovereignty.
So the way they're playing this is also quite curious to me. What does the fact that they took an act that you described as brazen tell you about the current state of relations between the United States and China? It is this? Well, it's not. Well, relationships are not good. They haven't been good for some time, certainly in the months leading up to Xi Jinping's inauguration of his third term as party president last October. But look, they're not getting better. He has tried to change his course a bit, realizing that Chinese foreign policy is not working well in the international community.
But I don't think we should be fooled by what they are doing. They have an aggressive plan to build a modern military over the next decade. And they stated that their goal by 20, 49 is to dominate the Indo-Pacific, if not the global order, and change the rules and norms. And that is their great strategy. And we must be aware of this and do everything possible to push back on this situation, to try to change their behavior.

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