Watch Morning Joe Highlights: May 15

So Donald Trump's defense team will continue its cross-examination of Michael Cohen tomorrow as it attempts to discredit the prosecution's key witness in the former president's secret money criminal trial. NBC News senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett has the latest on Donald Trump's defense team storming the prosecutor's office. Star witness suggesting self-described Trump fixer turned fierce Trump critic Michael Cohen is seeking revenge on his former boss. Do you want President Trump to be convicted in this case? Trump lawyer Todd Blench asks if Cohen recognized Cohen and confirms he recently said former president belongs in a cage like an animal, defense tries to portray Cohen as motivated to lie that he previously told prosecutors to get Trump out early from prison and that now his financial livelihood, including media appearances and podcasts, is focused on criticizing Mr.

Trump. Cohen acknowledges he has made more than $3 million from his books for disloyalty and revenge and that he had been going to Tik Tok six days a week to criticize his former boss in front of paid subscribers saying about his previous quote from Praise of Mr. Trump in that moment they brought me to my knees deeply the cult of Donald Trump the defense got Cohen to admit that he previously described himself as obsessed with Mr. Trump suggesting that he was abandoned once he was pushed out of Trump's orbit the state's case depends on great extent to jurors believing Cohen at his word since he is the only witness who said the former president The president knew his internal records were falsified to cover up a payment Cohen made to an adult film actress before the 2016 election.

Mr. Trump has pleaded not guilty to those low-level felony charges. We had a very good day. I think we are exposing this scam so Thank you very much today to the prosecution who questioned Cohen who told the jury that these invoices requesting reimbursement for services provided in 2017 were false records and that the retainer agreement he refers to was never existed. Prosecutors guided Cohen through check after check with the retainer language included. he said all the statements were false because they were not for valid legal fees but hush money refunds. Cohen describes a meeting with Trump at the White House in 2017 where he posed for this photo.

Cohen says they discussed Trump reimbursing him for paying. Stormy Daniels, an agreement developed by the Trump organization's chief financial officer, Alan Weiselberg, months earlier. He was sitting with President Trump and asked me if he was okay. He asked me if he needed money and I said no, all right, he said because I can get a check. no I'm fine, he said it's fine, just make sure you deal with Allen Cohen later testifying saying he was scared when the FBI raided his home in office in 2018 and saying Trump told him not to worry, I'm the president from United States.

The states are staying tough, which Cohen understood to mean not turning, but Cohen says he turned against Mr. Trump after consulting with his family. My wife, my daughter, my son, they all told me that we are supposed to be his first loyalty. Cohen has been disbarred and convicted. of lying under oath and the defense focusing on his motives Trump's lawyer, Blanch, asks Cohen if he was motivated by fame. Cohen suggests that's not fair to say. Blanch then quotes this excerpt from the quote from Cohen's book. He wanted all the power. The good life. Public acclaim. Fame. those are my words Cohen said yeah, it's interesting joining us now, NBC News legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Andrew Weissman, uh, Andrew, obviously this continues tomorrow, but so far, how has it been going for Michael Cohen with the prosecution and also with the defense?

His thoughts have been quite remarkable. I think you know a lot of us at MSNBC have seen him up close and personal and sometimes he can be volatile and strong-willed and come across as thin-skinned and he doesn't show any of that. I was in court.

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ing him and you know he really was until now, he's been a model witness on direct examination and cross-examination. The only thing I would notice for viewers is a slight difference in my opinion from Laura's excellent presentation, which is that Michael Cohen gives incredibly. damning evidence and he has direct evidence regarding the former president being involved in this scheme and having direct conversations, but I don't think it's fair to say that he provides the only evidence regarding Donald Trump and his connection to this case, I think you have to think about both direct and circumstantial evidence, and there really is a mountain of circumstantial evidence and Michael Cohen isn't even the only person who has direct evidence, for example, Donald Trump signs the checks for the refund payments and they aren't just $ 130,000, it's $260,000 because according to the DA, they are disguising it as legal fees, so there really is substantial corroboration and independent evidence, other than Michael Cohen, who is in no way a material witness, but I don't think so.

I'm not in any way a critical witness, so since you were in the courtroom, Andrew, I'm just curious if you had any idea how the jury was or wasn't reacting, whether they were bored, whether they were intrigued, and how. was connecting with the jury if so, um and of course this comes down to, as Joyce reminded us in the last hour, the jury, I mean, it's their decision whether he's guilty of both things, the interference election and actual fraud with the records, um. it's all if that seemed to be landing instead of all the drama around their relationship that's coming up, you know, reading the jury is always a difficult thing and you never say um so the only thing I'll say when looking at the jurors . it's that they are extremely attentive um they are not falling asleep like um the defendant appears to be um with his eyes closed uh very frequently um they are looking at the witness they are looking at the documents as they come in I would say The last hour of Michael Cohen's direct testimony was quite fascinating because he was generally looking directly at the jurors and the jurors were looking directly at him as he talked about his previous crimes, what he did, how he feels about it, why he decided to plead guilty and break with what he called the Trump cult, and that was a pretty remarkable moment, you know, the witness stand and the jury are very close to each other, they are much closer than where the defendant, Donald, is.

Trump to the witness stand or the jury box so they can really see each other very closely and that was certainly a dramatic moment, but you know you don't know until the end we won't know and that's why the trials are so dramatic that we don't we really know how this is coming across to the jurors, but they're certainly playing on a tight leash Andrew, uh, we know where Alen Weiselberg is physically, he's at Rikers, uh, but will they call him to the stand if he does? being called to the stand given the testimony so far involving Alan Weiselberg, great big question.

I think the real issue is whether there will be an explanation of where it will be given to the jurors. We all know that the reason he is not a witness is because he is behind bars having pleaded guilty to lying in the civil fraud case in which he and Donald Trump were found responsible, so it is fair to infer that he lied in that case to protect himself and Donald Trump regarding those charges uh and I think so. What's really important is that it's important for jurors to know why he hasn't been called as a witness.

He would presumably assert the Fifth Amendment and not voluntarily testify for that to happen outside the presence of the jury. I think there is a way to remedy it. This is the court. You can instruct the jury that they should not consider why certain Witnesses were not called and you cannot consider that in the jury's deliberations what would apply to Alan Weiselberg would apply to bodyguard Keith Schiller, who. was according to stermy Daniels right outside the room um when he said the sexual encounter occurred he is the person who received the checks um and invoices when he was in the White House um with Donald Trump so the judge could explain that those who don't Speculate about Why didn't they call those Witnesses?

So, Andrew, why don't you call Keith? I guess he's someone the prosecutors again. I'm speculating, but a good prosecutor would try to get him to cooperate and try to see if he would testify, I would assume that he asserted the Fifth Amendment and I don't mean in a pejorative way that we all have the right to do so if there is an exact answer and therefore I would assume that if I were his defense attorney, that is something I would advise him to do, at which point prosecutors have to decide whether they will vaccinate him and therefore not prosecute him in exchange for him testifying, and I can understand why what they might not be willing to do, given what they know about his closeness and relationship with Donald Trump and also you can immunize someone and they could still lie and not tell the truth, okay, former federal prosecutor Andrew Weissman, like always thank you very much um so Donnie you know Michael Cohen very well and you have for quite some time now I'm sure you

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ed him in the courtroom yesterday.

What did you say? Know? Let me back up a little. You know anyone who thinks that Michael was going to be nervous or that Michael wasn't prepared for this. I remember sitting with him in Otisville many times, where he was preparing for this, this is his moment and the thing about Michael and people also forget is that Donald Trump has gone through how many lawyers. However, Michael Cohen was his personal lawyer for 10 years and he kept that job really good, he's very good on his feet and he's also very capable. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't really connect with the jury.

There's something about him and the reverend knows him and says yeah, he did all these things for Trump, but you. I kind of feel like the guy got tricked and all that and I really think he's connecting uh I really think this is his moment and the other thing yeah they're going to paint him and they said yeah he lied but it's all corroborated. They haven't left anything to chance here, it's not like they believe me, he talks, they put the checks there, he talks, he put the other document there, so when you combine his ability on the stand, which so far, according to the chart anyone's command, he's getting and with corroborating evidence, I think he's very pro and rev, you know Michael Kowen, I know him now too, uh, you know, in the years when we dealt with Trump, some in mostly confrontational, he was the guy who came up to you and said.

Look, he's not such a bad guy, he was a true believer and when he got in trouble, he called me and said, would you meet with me and pray with me? And I met him. I was a little skeptical about what it was because we met in the Regency and this is very open, but he really convinced me that he, you know, was telling him that everything will be fine as a minister, you are comfortable with people , he said no, I'm going to go to jail, he says to be clear, he said, but my children. He doesn't deserve this and I think his family changed him and even when he went to jail he said he would send me a message, please call my son, which I did.

I think he was a guy who realized he was in a tough situation. He was in a situation where he admired someone who was not worthy of that and I was very convinced that with the composure and the conviction that he took that stance he was not going to let himself be provoked by his family. . he is rising to redeem his family and what he felt was his commitment to them. I heard that when he was talking about his family, that the jury was very connected to him, he started talking about how supposedly some of the jurists here are solders but that's what I've been hearing Co back on the stand in 2 hours still under interrogation excuse me tomorrow you will be back on the stand today free day you will be back on the stand tomorrow Republican Senator Tommy tuberville says I like Purple Oh Man says he accompanied Donald Trump to court this week to cite overcoming the gag order imposed on the former president.

In an interview yesterday with Newsmax, the Alabama senator discussed his decision to speak outside of court on Monday, where he, among other things, called him the question. citizenship, come on, man of the jurors participating in the trial, mental anguish over drugs is trying to be pressed on the Republican candidate for president of the United States this year, that's it, that's it, he's been here a month , been here a month. I'm disappointed to look. to the supposedly American citizens in that courtroom, this judge is practically tied to everyone. I would call from President Trump down to anyone on his side, we have more and more senators and congressmen coming up every day to represent him and be able to go. get out and overcome this gag order and that's one of the reasons we went is to be able to talk peace for President Trump supposedly American citizens say Senator Tuberville Donald Trump was joined in court yesterday by more of his allies than They are willing to help you. circumvent that gag order among them the Speaker of the House of Representatives, Mike Johnson, who repeated many of the statementsDonald Trump's false statements about the cases against him, the man who was second in line for the presidency also criticized Michael Cohen's testimony and attacked the judge's daughter on the former's behalf.

I ask you something: What would happen if Nancy Pelosi went to Hunter Biden's trial and attacked the key witness against Hunter Biden and then attacked the judge's daughter? Let's play that game for a second. All the coverage, total collapse, total collapse, something she wouldn't do. because of course you never will, Alex makes the suits, the matching suits, we have that's the photo of the day, let's go to the cyborg of the Multiverse, so these are all the men who showed up to support Donald Trump yesterday. a Republican congressman, a governor of North Dakota, doing, of course, the business of the people of North Dakota being Ramawami of Lower Manhattan VI was also there, all dressed in the same suit and the same tie, the red tie favored by Donald Trump, uh, Charlie Sykes, what do you see in these?

In the images I see politicians running towards the sound of the SAS because that is what their Master demands of them. I guess at this point we shouldn't be surprised, but it's still shocking, it's still shocking that you have these politicians hugging Donald Trump in the middle of a Hush, money, uh, trial, a criminal, could walk out of that courtroom like a convicted felon, look, you know, it's one thing for Republicans to say, okay, we like Donald Trump for his policies on taxes or the border or education, but what is it? What's happening now is that it's become the new movie.

You have to accept it. You have to accept it. You have to accept the choices. Deny the lies. You have to accept the Insurrection. You have to accept the um. You know, the silence. a porn star, the multiple affairs, you have to accept the obstruction of justice, you have to become part of the obstruction of justice, I mean, that was one of those moments where you say okay, we have to remind everyone that This is not even remotely normal. The Speaker of the House of Representatives would show up at the felony trial supporting Donald Trump, not despite his character, but accepting it all and then basically using his position to violate the gag order and say the things the judge says .

You do not know? Do you know this? This would affect the trial now. If this is going to have any effect on the jury. We don't know if it's going to intimidate the jury. If it's going to impress the jury. But again, we are. seeing a scene in American politics that we had never seen before and that was unimaginable until the last two days and, by the way, as you have pointed out both for the morality party, both for the Law and Order party, ex Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney mocked Mike Johnson for his appearance at the trial, which she posted on social media.

I have to admit, I'm surprised President Johnson wants to be in the I Cheated on My Wife with the Porn Star Club. I guess it's not like that. Concerned about teaching morality to our young people, after all, Democratic Congressman Jamie Rasin of Maryland also sarcastically criticized the speaker by telling him a quote from The Daily Beast: I find nothing unusual about a fundamentalist theocrat who thinks the Bible is the supreme law of the country attend the legal proceedings of a world-class and outspoken con man and con artist for cooking the books to cover up money payments he made to a porn star to hide his adulterous affair, do you Rasin make a reference there to Johnson telling to Fox News about his worldview shortly after he was elected speaker last fall.

I am a Bible-believing Christian. Someone asked me today in the media and they said it's curious. People are curious. What does Mike Johnson think about any topic? Under the sun. I said, well, go get a Bible off your shelf and read it that's my view of the world that's what I believe Joe I know you're a Bible scholar we've talked a lot about the Bible on this show several times I remember when Jike Johnson he said that thing about how do you know I'm uh just if you want to know who I am just look at the Commandments basically it's an amazing show.

I mean, it's almost more. The two incredible things about this is that the speaker of the house is doing this and the other is that this speaker of the house who is willing to come here and defend Donald Trump, I mean, it's like he has no memory of things what he said, apparently he apparently has no memory of the things he said just a few months ago, he's not a Bible scholar, but my parents dragged me to church four times a week yeah, well, that makes you a Bible scholar. Bible and I loved it, I loved every second of it, but Charlie, yeah, again, here's a guy, I thought, I mean, you can go back to the beginning.

We criticize Mike Johnson for saying just look at the Bible when Mike Johnson's presidency was based on the biggest lie in American politics, specifically the big lie that he was the guy who walked around with the sign-up sheet to support Ken Paxton's big lie. from Texas trying to overthrow American democracy so you can start there and you can go all the way to what happened yesterday unfortunately and you know like I said yesterday Charlie and I'm sure you're the same way I'm cheering. speaker Mike Johnson just like I would cheer for speaker Hakeem jeffri just like I would cheer for any speaker I want them to succeed because I want America to succeed and yesterday was a very, very sad sight for America and for an institution that I love. a strange show, no, I'm serious, it's worth remembering that Mike Johnson became the speaker because he had a hit on his resume because he, you know, played the part in the big lie, but you know, I mean, The reality is that Mike Johnson, that Mike Johnson's presidency is hanging by a thread, that he depends on the favor of the Mara logo, that all Donald Trump has to do is turn against him and he's out, so here you go Mike Johnson, who survived that vote that vacated the presidential vote. um with Democratic support um it basically shows where the real power is in the Republic Party and by the way um it's also not a surprise that he was fundraising off of that we know that with a photo of him and Donald Trump you know , live from Donald Trump's trial for the various frauds, um, to try to raise money, but this is who Mike Johnson is and the hypocrisy is almost too obvious to have to mention that here is someone who has built his entire identity over his Christian morals and apparently him and his son. they have an agreement where they monitor each other's pornography, you know, they use whatever, um, this is a trial about Donald Trump having an affair, I mean, having an affair with a porn star and a Playboy model and then lie about it and there's Mike Johnson.

I'm there with you I'm with you on this not just you on taxes not just you on the border I'm with you on this and I'm willing to help you obstruct justice by violating the gag order I'm still thrown Out of all this, you were too deep in the Shaggy carpet, as they used to say in the 1970s. I didn't hear anything after that, Charlie, yes, please find out what those young people are doing in Wisconsin and Michigan and why there is a 50 point. It ranges between the two according to the New York Times if a survey there will be 38 articles about it in the next two days thanks Charlie we appreciate it listen you know I sat in on the show I was very grateful for Mike Johnson uh for finding the approval of aid to Ukraine, but the New York Times, right next to this pole, the story here which of the 800, but a very important story here about Russia starting to make really rapid progress in Ukraine, the reason why Donald Trump wanted to help Vladimir Putin and he froze the House of Representatives and Mike Johnson was obsequious for too long and when Johnson finally changed his mind I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt because yeah, but you know, I think At that moment, I think that the president, the responsible people of the party, came to him and said: listen, we are going to solve this with or without you, so that's what he did, but I just want, I just want to say even while thank you for what you did , the cost of his devastating delay to Ukraine and a gift he keeps giving to Vladimir Putin, yeah, two quick things here, like Charlie said, President Johnson clearly pays a debt to Donald Trump.

Trump rejected Mtg's motion to override This is Johnson, saying thank you for keeping me in my job, however, as Char Charlie also pointed out, he stayed in the job as well because the Democrats came to his aid and, after his court appearance the day before, several Democrats I spoke to said. others give interviews to other media outlets saying that won't happen again, he just burned that bridge, we won't bail him out if there's another effort to oust him, so that's a consequence of what Johnson said yesterday and, to a greater extent, yes, Joe, American officials. I've been talking the last few days looking at the progress in Russia and I say yes the US is starting to show up on the front lines but it will be a process and that delay was costly and we are seeing Russia take over several villages close to them.

I think progress will continue as Russia prepares for what they believe will be a major spring and summer offensive. Former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney mocked Mike Johnson for his appearance at the trial and posted a quote on social media. I have to admit, I'm surprised that President Johnson wants to be in the I cheated on my wife with the porn star club. I guess he's not so concerned about teaching morality to our young ones after all. Democratic Congressman Jamie Rasin of Maryland also sarcastically criticized the speaker by telling him a quote from The Daily Beast. I find nothing unusual about a fundamentalist theocrat who thinks the Bible is the supreme law of the land attending the legal proceedings of a self-proclaimed sexually outstanding and world-class fraudster and conman for cooking the books to cover up money payments he made to a pornographic company. star to hide the adulterous affair from him, right?

Rasin refers there to Johnson telling Fox News about his view of the world shortly after being elected speaker last fall. I am a Bible-believing Christian. Someone asked me today in the media and they said it's curious. People are curious. What does Mike Johnson think about any topic? Under the sun. I said, well, grab a Bible off your shelf and read it. That's my vision of the world. That's what I think, Joe. I know you are a Bible scholar. We have talked about the Bible. A lot on this show several times I remember when Jik Johnson said that thing about how do you know I'm uh just if you want to know who I am just watch the Tech Commandments basically it's an amazing show I mean it's almost more both of them What's amazing about this one is that the speaker of the house is doing this and the other is that it is this speaker of the house that is willing to come here and defend Donald Trump.

I mean it's like he has no memory of the things he said just apparently apparently there are no members things he said just a few months ago I'm not a Bible scholar but my parents dragged me to the office to church four times a week yeah , well, that makes you a Bible scholar and I loved, I loved every second of But Charlie yeah, again, here's a guy. I thought, I mean, you can go back to the beginning. We criticized Mike Johnson for saying "just look at the Bible," when Mike Johnson's speech was based on the biggest lie in American politics, specifically the Big Lie. he was the guy walking around with the sign up sheet to support Ken Paxton's big lie in Texas trying to overthrow American democracy so you can start there and you can go all the way to what happened yesterday, unfortunately, and you know. like I said yesterday, Charlie, and I'm sure you're the same.

I'm cheering for speaker Mike Johnson, just as I would cheer for speaker Hakeem Jeff, as I would cheer for any speaker. I want them to succeed because I love America. to succeed and yesterday was a very, very sad sight for America and for an institution that I love exactly one month after Donald Trump's trial there is a new poll that finds for the first time that a majority of Americans believe that the former president is guilty in latest Yahoo news report yugov National poll 52% of adults say Trump effectively falsified business records to hide money payments to a porn star, up four points from last month and from seven points higher than when the charges were filed last year, if he were found guilty, 51% would approve. of Trump serving a prison sentence, while 36% would be against putting him behind bars.

Look, 51% would support Donald Trump, so I guess this isn't some conspiracy hoax, no, that's the majority of Americans, yes, that would be yes, that waits again. went to Alabama 51, that's a majority, yeah right, what gets to 51, Joyce confirms as for the political ramifications, poll shows Trump and President Joe Biden tied at 45%in this year's election among registered voters, but when asked who they would support if convicted. Trump is convicted in the secret money case. Biden has a seven point lead, 46 to 39%, so can I see other polls? Why not? The latest

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tracking poll of more than 10,000 registered voters finds 44% for Trump and 43% for Biden. that's within the poll's margin of error, it's not 12 points, it's a tie, okay and a new separate poll of registered voters finds President Joe Biden leading Donald Trump in this New York Times poll on ipsus Biden is up four points, 47 to 43%, we should However, keep in mind that the margin of error is plus or minus 6% for the poll, so I have to say it's fascinating Willie and we'll get into this.

The New York Times did some polls that the New York Times did. The Sienna poll they put out is serious 15 16 17 stories that make people run through Manhattan with their hair on fire and Washington with their hair on fire at the same time, put it in this ipsos poll from the New York Times, iOS put it right new one at a time by the New York Times Biden is ahead by four points nationally Four points nationally not even an article about it anyway as for that question from the New York Times Phil Philadelphia Sienna College Poll from six key battleground states that came out Monday

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there was a lot of reaction To that, as we know, some of the most trusted pollsters in the country are questioning the methodology and the results that you believe the executive director of the Nevada independent John Ralston calls it strange that Trump has a 13-point lead in the state, adding that nothing remotely similar has been seen in the state for decades.

UVA Politics Center founder Larry Sabo says he laughed after seeing Nevada's numbers and recommends others do the same. The national political reporter in the bastion, Mark Kabuto, also calls the Nevada post quote a total outlier. Meanwhile, Harvard Institute of Politics polling director John Delpe raises questions about how Biden could be losing the youth vote by 27 points in Michigan while he wins it by 24 points in Wisconsin. A million monkeys with a million. I think there are many. here making calls as pollsters this is how it's done finally Greg Sergeant of the new Republic expressed his dismay at the poll methodology this is important which shows that 20% of likely voters retired or did not vote in the last two midterm elections wait a second wait a second they are likely voters, but 20% of what the New York Times calls likely voters did not vote, so let me finish, they did not vote in the last general election or the last two midterm elections and they did not vote in the last. general election or the last two midterm elections or they have never voted at all but wait John Hilman there is more and by the way people are calling to go oh this is just their reaction to a poll no you can come back, You can watch the tape we make.

This every time the New York Times Sienna poll comes out it's always an outlier and the New York Times always comes out with 15 or 16 articles that everyone rushes to because it says the Earth ends at 5:00, you know, go to Link in New York. Times 15 times and they keep writing articles about it. There are and NPR has found some of these voters who said well, you know, I voted for Biden before, but they said, but wait, this guy we checked the voting roles, he never voted other news. organizations as three four more examples not only of people in the surveys but of people that the New York Times cited in its articles.

Well, here is one of the many people we interviewed who said that he is disillusioned and is going to vote for Trump. There is no record that he voted. Yeah. Well, you know, are you feeling something? Well, I feel, I feel like there's a I think sometimes, as a general matter, maybe there's a little bit of an overreliance on voters telling the truth and generally, I hate to say it, journalists find this from time to time that liar reporters lie this is what I would say about this about this poll um if I asked you this question Joe um do you know anyone on both sides who doesn't think that's the case with this?

Battleground claiming that Joe Biden is stronger in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, than Nevada, Arizona and Georgia sounds pretty good. I've seen some endorsements that show George is very approachable. Greg Blin actually had an article that says: I'm wild. I'm not saying he's not around. I'm not going to hold water for the New York Times or the methodology of this survey. I'll keep coming back to one thing that I try to say every time we talk about these things, which is that I'm really interested and I know you know where the polls are that tell us directionally about the race.

I understand that there is a difference with the New York Times Sienna poll and you know it has had a disproportionate impact this year in this cycle. is biased with Donald TR and the New York Times revels in clickbait stories like a dozen at a time and I and what I'm trying to focus on is what I think people should pay attention to, but what I'm trying to focus on what we need to focus on is the New York Times which right now is actively shaping election cycles where this poll comes out on a Sunday and on Monday people say oh and I heard that and I'm sitting there saying oh don't be so stupid, that's why we're going to do this, wait a second, no wait, what I hear is after these Sienna polls come out every time the New York Times poll is, well, everything Joe Biden has done since the State of the Union address. all this money that the entire campaign has spent is for no, no, no, no, no, there is a poll that is wildly biased every time and it does determine whether it is a New York Times poll versus a morning concert poll and the New York Times.

York Times and amplifies it 15 16 17 times, warps reality and everyone responds to that in the media and in the political world, so if you're my, all I would say about this is that I agree with you that the problem for me, unless you want to specify, unless you want to suggest, you think there's a conspiracy of the times about this, and you're, I'm, their methodology is weird talk. Larry Sabat said this. W., Joe, you're saying. something more than that, although you're saying that the New York Times is systematically publishing these polls in a way to try to amplify them to drive the news cycle and I, yes, I'm saying that and no.

I'm saying I'd like to know. I'm curious. As someone who understands your level of sophistication in reading media, why do you think that's true? What I'm trying to say is that I agree with you that Bull's best job against any survey with outliers or anything else for the people who are actually consumers of this information is to not allow any given news outlet or any given survey unduly shapes your perception of the race, John, that's not realistic and I'll tell you why it's not realistic. because and I'll tell you because I know that people come to you after every New York Times Sienna poll comes out, it completely changes the political battlefield for about a week and a half, distorts the questions that are asked in The One White House distorts the questions asked of Donald Trump, distorts all opinions, distorts everything and that continues to happen every month when this comes out and finally about 2 weeks later after the New York Times Sienna residue. the poll leaves people saying oh I think Joe Biden is on a winning streak and then two weeks later he comes out again and it's garbage, he's an outlier and yeah, the New York Times when they have all these experts questioning the methodology when they call like 20% of likely voters who have never voted before or didn't vote in the last two primaries when they do, when they even quote people who said they would change their vote from Joe Biden. who have never voted before.

Sorry, the New York Times has to know what they're doing. Breaking news here in the morning. Joe President Biden lays out well his terms for participating in the presidential debate this fall. And the breaking news is that they. We are not going to follow the route of the commission Donald Trump has already said in the past that he is not going to follow the route of the commission Trump has said that he would debate with Biden at any time anywhere where it seems that Joe Biden has accepted it, let's see what The president says that Donald Trump lost two debates against me in 2020 and had not appeared in the debate since.

He now acts like he wants to debate me again. Well, make my day, buddy, I'll even do it twice, so let's pick the dates. Donald, I listen to you for free on Wednesdays, oh wow, God, wow, nothing subtle about that, yeah, that was right in the middle, nobody knows, that's when the court is in recess, yeah, exactly, so Jonathan Walker went through this, like this, they, they, they. We have said no to the presidential debate commission, which is something that Donald Trump had said in the past that he was going to say no to correct. Trump has said to debate it many times anywhere.

Biden has now said we will no longer follow those rules. We will debate it twice, June and September are the months that the Biden campaign is presenting, they will have to reach an agreement on the real dates, you are right, we must remember that in both 2016 and 2020, Trump and his campaign attacked the debate committee, they basically said we're not going to do that this time. We must also emphasize that Donald Trump refused to participate in any Republican primary debate, of which he would not be a part, which is now brought to the social truth and in the appearance of him in the media saying: I will debate with Joe Biden, what he want.

This is the Biden campaign saying, look, let's debate. I was talking to a senior advisor the last few days, there was never a suggestion that they were going to lead the debates, but now We are trying to get to terms that look like June and September before early voting in some states and again they also said we are not going to hold debates after early voting has already begun, first, but second, they told the president. commission, one of the reasons you're not doing it is because you're not following the rules, you let this guy come in with covid because you were afraid to test him and his family like it was an absolute joke and we also saw how Donald Trump likes crowded Hillary. they moved, they say: let's have a real debate, without an audience, you and I, even in the context of the presidential debate commission, historically, the debate about the debates, what are the terms of the debates, what are who will be the moderator , what are the issues about how these are going to be achieved are always big debates in every presidential year the debate about the debates continues the negotiations continue between the parties for months eventually someone threatens to walk out eventually you end up with some rules that everyone abides by like you said Joe I think the process in 2020 couldn't have been more broken if you think about what happened that fall, yeah, in that context with so much at stake now that you've seen Donald Trump in the way he handled the Republican debates or not. he handled them, showing that he has no respect for this process, he is just trying to advance his own interests, now both sides do it, but this is a way for them to say, look, we are, we are ready. to debate the BL we are ready to debate we are ready to debate soon we are ready to debate in June June is not far away that is next month if I have my schedule correct and I think there will still be a great set of interesting questions who is going to moderate the debates, right?

Are these debates going to take place? What will be the duration of the debates? What will be the topics of the debates? Who will moderate them? I understand, uh, I think it's the In case they say there will be no audience at these, they are going to go out, they are not going to have shouting, they are going to try to have a serious sub, but they are trying to take control of the agenda to a very important set of concerns, as you said before early voting begins, what they're trying to do is have a real debate, yeah, and Mike Barnacle, I'm still stuck.

I listen to your freedom on Wednesdays, uh, wow, your thoughts, well, The best part of this announcement that was just made is the announcement that the president of the United States briefs Punchy, clearly understandable, basically saying "come on, guy hard". I think that's what a lot of people are looking for from Joseph Biden, they just John, so let's remember to go. In 2020, Donald Trump pulled out of the second of three debates because it was going to be held virtually. It was in the middle of Co then that brought us to the town halls where Savannah did a great job with Donald Trump throughout the process.

It was a bit of a mess, yes, it was during Co, but it was a mess, the question now will be: Did Joe Biden call The Bluff of Donald Trump, who said, anytime, anywhere, Joe Biden said, okay, Here are the times and places, let's do it? We'll see what Donald Trump says. I havebeen updating the truth. Social rate. Trump has not yet responded, but there have been questions throughout this process about whether each man would want to debate. You know, we heard Republicans say no, Joe Biden. we won't want to do it and Democrats have wondered if Donald Trump will do it, both men have now publicly committed to doing it now that Trump has backed away from such things before we see if he will continue through June and September, we should also note that Biden's team is proposing a vice presidential debate in July, so there would be one between the Republican convention in mid-July and Milwaukee and the Democrats in late August in Chicago, so it would be a total of three and two presidential debates.

VP, you know, and of course, Donald Trump, it's going to be fascinating to see what happens because he, of course, he talks tough and then he always backs down. I'm going to do this in two weeks. He backs down. I'm going to do this in three weeks. he backs out he withdrew from all debates he refused to debate Republicans refused to debate Nikki Haley he so I wonder if his people who understand the less people hear about Trump the better the campaign will do I wonder if he will find an excuse to withdraw from these debates I also think he will definitely try, I mean, the reality is that you know how to use uh, I come from Brownsville Brooklyn Donald Trump is a political punk, he doesn't want to go on stage without a team to cheer him on and without all the things that he needs to make him feel charged one by one and you know it because you grew up to act with James Brown just when you say something stupid and there's Dead Silence, it just lands with a thud and Donald Trump says so much nonsense that there won't be a crowd cheering and yell and scream and laugh and those stupid words will just hang in the air for minutes and look stupid, and he needs all of that to do the Donald Trump act, having to stand there and actually deal with serious situations. policies and answer serious questions without any way to uh uh try to deflect and distract, he's not going to agree to this.

No, he can't see the feat, all Donald Trum will try any way he can to not have to deal one on one with a real blue-collar guy who didn't Ra wasn't raised as an elitist like Donald Trump was, that needs props to try to get through if you're justif you're just tuning in uh on the west coast uh we should play it we'll say it again uh Joe Biden has said he'll debate Donald Trump in June vice presidential debate in July the second debate in September said no to the presidential commission uh because uh they're still angry of course about the fact that the commission couldn't enforce the rules against Donald Trump four years ago they allowed him on stage with covid we're too scared to try it. uh constant interruptions, Trump cancels the second debate, we could go on and on, but okay, let's bring on Michael Tyler with the Biden Harris campaign, uh, Michael, if you could tell us a little bit what the thinking was here in terms of the campaign .

Or did this come directly from Joe Biden and have you heard anything from the Trump campaign? Yes, good morning, thank you for inviting me. I mean, listen, the president himself didn't mince his words, right, he said he beat Donald Trump twice in 2020. Donald Trump hasn't debated as the president is happy to debate, he's happy to do it twice and he believes that We should do this sooner rather than later so the American people can see the Stark choice they have in front of them in this election. We should do it in June, after Donald Trump's criminal trial is likely to conclude and after the president returns from the G7 Summit, and then we should have a second debate in September, long before early voting begins, so that the American people can listen again. both candidates before they go to vote, that's what we should do in a 21st century presidential election, the president is ready to do it.

I think the question now is: Will Donald Trump keep his word? Will he step forward here? I haven't heard from him yet, but we'll be waiting all day. Good morning, Jonathan Lamir. Here, talk to us about the idea of ​​eliminating the debate commission here and dealing only with the networks that Trump, as we know, has been very critical of. them and the previous cycles, but the boss in recent weeks said that he might be willing to work with them again, explain to us how this will all happen, yes, listen, it goes back to what he was saying right in the presidential campaign of the century XXI.

There are a couple of things that matter. I think, first and foremost, we need to make sure that the American people can watch the candidates debate before they cast their vote. The commission's proposal didn't allow for them to be having debates until well into October, when early voting starts in September, but secondly now, we've seen in previous years, two issues, well, they've been treating these debates more like spectacles than as the substance of the talks between the two candidates, with the possibility of becoming president, the path. that they should be, and lastly, we also saw in 2020 an inability of the commission to force candidates to adhere to the rules (true).

Donald Trump repeatedly broke the rules, made him skip debates, so we want to make sure. That we do this in 2024, we can do it in a way where the rules are enforceable and the American people have the opportunity to hear from the candidates before they cast their vote, that's what we're proposing here today. I'm sure if Donald Trump keeps his word, that's what we'll be able to do, Michael, uh, Ed, the term show and the way it's described wouldn't have a show if we could have the debate if Donald Trump will agree to This is assuming you have not been convicted before that and have to get permission from your probation officer to appear.

Could you talk about how to eliminate audiences and eliminate all the games you play on the side? but a one-on-one debate with a moderator would really introduce the American people to the issues and policies of each candidate. Well, that's exactly right, rev. Listen, the president said, this morning, he has a couple of questions that he wants to ask Donald Trump. wants to ask you why you proudly boast about the role you played in overthrowing Roie Wade, uh, in promoting these abortion bans across the country, wants to ask you about the threat you pose to our democracy, wants to ask you why you want to return us to a economy that only benefits the rich like Donald Trump uh and those are the substantive conversations that we will be able to have in a one on one format free of all the spectacle free of the distractions it should be Joe Biden and Donald Trump are talking about the issues that matter to them to the American people and that is what we hope to achieve with this proposal.

Hi Michael, I'm hman here. I want to ask you guys, there was already a lot of news today. this, but I'm going to ask you to maybe do a little more. There will be a big debate between the campaigns if Joe, if Trump accepts this proposal about who the moderators are, it's always a lot of negotiation about that, even when the commission has executed things, put that aside for a second, do you have a favorite? Any ideas on the format? Is this what you're thinking about? One should be the City Council, one should be standing. uh one to one or both should be the same and the second is what about the substance, are you thinking about internal issues for internal issues for one, foreign policy issues for the other or some other ideas about what you want and how you want? divide the issues over the course of these two debates that you're proposing, yes, there are still some details that we have to work out, there's no doubt about it, but I think the main thing here is that we want one-on-one debates between Joe Biden and Donald Trump about distraction-free topics, right, and that's what we're advocating to the extent that, as moderators, we want to make sure that those on the networks themselves are choosing from their normal list of candidates. talent pool so there is no question about who is in control here we want to make sure we have a structured conversation and about the issues that matter to the American people we want to talk about abortion we want to talk about the economy we want to talk about our fundamental rights and freedoms , we want to talk about the threat that Donald Trump poses to our democracy and make sure that the American people can really listen to the in-depth arguments between the two candidates because we have confidence in the Joe Biden campaign says that when they hear the candidates talk about issues of freedom, issues of democracy, who is fighting for you on the economy, they will side with Joe Biden, I'm not so sure that Donald Trump and his team will fill exactly the same way, I guess.

We'll have to wait and see what they actually say. Well, communications director for the Biden Harris campaign, Michael Tyler. Thank you so much. We were waiting to see if there would be a response. Well, we were waiting to see what the response would be. and here it is a few moments ago Donald Trump responded on his social media platform writing in part ready and willing to debate Biden at the two proposed times in June and September. I would highly recommend more than two debates and for excitement purposes a very large venue, although Biden is supposedly afraid of crowds, I'm not sure what that means, that's just because he doesn't understand them, just tell me when I'll be there , let's prepare for the fight, oh, okay, writes the former president, then he says right now, he doesn't want to today.

He's probably seen as backing off in that he would accept these two debates, maybe with some negotiations, some sticking points there, yes we have every man using slogans as part of his debate rhetoric this morning, but yes, Trump took the truth socialist for a few minutes. does as you just read says that he is in but the devil is in the details here there is a lot to resolve Trump of course he is going to need to say today that he is in he does not want to project coward uh that is coward rev um, but there are many things, there is a venue moderator about whether or not they make a decision about crowds.

Trump wants it. Biden, right? Microphones are going to be a big problem. We emphasize that the last hour. Trump will dare. Trump agreed to a system where he could be cut off at any time, so I don't think we should count on these debates happening, but a few weeks ago I think you would have made a bet saying there probably won't be debates, at least today There is a possibility of what to do. you think I think there's a chance, but I think Donald Trump will try to use every trick he can to avoid the debate, particularly one on one without an audience because he doesn't know politics, he doesn't really know what the presidency will be. of the. what it would mean in terms of re-election and he doesn't need to be one on one where he can't feed off of making the audience applaud or laugh and, like Joe said before, where he gives lines of his that would fail if it were just in a studio. where he, Joe, Joe Biden and a moderator, so he will not in any way try to cooperate with that type of setup because, as we know, Donald Trump needs a crowd that he feels more comfortable with, at his rallies it's more or less all. you do it where you have a friendly audience that echoes and does the call and response and you can say whatever comes to mind in a controlled environment where there's no crowd and a knowledgeable moderator with good questions and it's about policy and it's about answer questions. about maybe some of his trials that are in front of him, that's not a good setup for Donald Trump, so he's saying like John said he has to say today, of course, at any time, how many plates let's get ready to rumble, but already we will see.

When you start this negotiation and I also want to say that court proceedings are a pretty serious procedure and you can't even go to that without bringing in small crowds here and there and this you build up in Mar Lago, you walk out and address the dinner audience. nights as some kind of rally and we have to keep in mind that, uh, I'm told that now there hasn't been any direct contact yet between the Trump and Biden campaigns, so don't just social media put out a post of the truth and not Let's forget that we are waiting to see when.

He gets a verdict in Manhattan because if the verdict doesn't come until June, if he's convicted, he'll need his parole officer's permission to travel to any hearings. There is a long way to go, we have no idea what it is like. It's going to happen, but that's the possible outcome. I never thought you'd say that. Did you stir? A presidential candidate needs his probation officer. Let him go to a debate and he has to give you permission. He has to prove that parole him. The officer approved you to go to this city, I mean, but if he talks like he's one of the guys, if he gets convicted, he's in New York, a probation officer has to approve you leaving the state, you certainly can't leave the state. country.

Let's be realistic. he is potentially a convicted felon. He's okay, I need TV studios in Manhattan. We will do it here. Yes, he could be around.