Interrogation Raw: Most Viewed Moments of 2022 | A&E

foreigner I could tell by the tone of his voice that it was not normal Sabrina has a 12 inch bread knife that she holds in her right hand it is covered in blood I could see blood on the blade I can see blood on it we immediately started screaming drop drop The knife was al

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like it pulled her out of whatever she was in back to some kind of reality. I kicked him away from her and we put her on the ground. It was a very tense couple of seconds. Suspect Sabrina Zunich was 18. Lisa Cañaveral's one-year-old adopted daughter, also inside the home was Megan Zanella and Haley Knavel.

Megan was 13 and Haley was three. Father Kevin was traveling, a truck driver, and was in Michigan at the time. Sabrina was in foster care for many years before coming to the Knavels Foreign Landing with the Cane Falls truly represented a new beginning for her. She went from a troubled home with her biological father and her grandmother to a youth shelter where she didn't want to be. She's getting along well. with the family she does very well in school she doesn't get into trouble things seem to be getting better for her I couldn't find anything to indicate that something like this could happen oh please follow me yes, you remind me well of our main objective when we inter

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Sabrina for The first time was to get Sabrina to tell us exactly what happened.

We surprised her leaving the room so we knew she did it. We wanted to know why. So what do you remember yesterday when I finished my homework? I don't know and that's it. and we're at home wait, the initial thing happened I don't know how you get along with Kevin having a miracle I mean the one who helped me because there is nothing I can deal with and that's how we agreed for a long time It means that if I do something, I can talk to him Kevin on Lisa dealing with her mainly because I've never been the best, she never seems to like me and she's been wanting me out of the house, what do you think about what Lisa is like?

I'm not alive now how good you had a knife you stay at least that's how I did it Mr. and Megan called the police I mean, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, they look great, no one else deserves it, no one else has heard it, Thank God Sabrina never denies committing the murder she just acts confused when I tell her that she was the one who killed the Police Academy. We could have waited here for four days and we were probably going to get the same answers from her. We made the decision that we're just going to cut this off because she's not going to give us anything else we need.

She was hoping to find some text messages, some emails, a search history on why this crime occurred over the past few weeks. Kevin Knafel and Sabrina texted each other over 1,000 times. I don't think it was normal for an adoptive father and an adopted daughter to have thousands of text messages between the two of them. We were sure Kevin left for work at 8 p.m. m. the night before the murder and he did not return to town until afterward. Lisa's death so we want to know from his perspective if there was any argument in the house before he left and then you told me you wanted to talk about his wife's job the right topic yes I told his lawyer We had to just talk about work, but I was hoping that maybe he would open up and give us some insight into what was going on and why this happened Kevin, do you know anything about what was going on at the house the night before you left?

I worked that night well, I waited a second, we just talked about talking about your wife's work, I was running the house the night before, it's not the last night, okay, where did your wife work on the kids' things too, what did you do? there?, she was a bus worker for the sex of children with the skin he was looking down there were no tears there was no anger were you and Lisa in the divorce process okay now we're leaving the uh come on Kevin canafel wasn't there willing to help the police and find out exactly what happened to his wife why he is not cooperating with us what he is hiding from us so an offer is in good faith first when the defense attorney accuses me with the suspect it is an opportunity for them to be 100% be honest and say exactly what happened is the first step towards a plea deal we can't use this against her in court the conversation said there was another party involved yes Kevin Canaveral my adoptive father was Kevin's idea and it was talked about Then we were having sex and he and Lisa were having marriage problems.

He wanted a divorce, but Haley, who is his three-year-old daughter, was in the picture and he wanted full custody. She would get custody or that. it would be shared and he didn't want that to happen so the alternative was for this to happen, when was it after you started living there daily? The sexual nature started, it all started not with sex but with massages because he was a truck. The driver and his legs were cramping, so he was on the inner thigh and then progressively had sex. lose my foster parent license what would I do, I would never do that telling him as Sabrina Kevin's relationship continued.

Sabrina described the increasing pension she felt from Lisa and that Sabrina felt like she was no longer welcome in the house, so Kevin convinced Sabrina that if he killed Lisa and was discovered that she would only serve two to five years, that he would protect her and that after she got out, he would be there with her, they would buy a house and basically she can be like a mother figure to Haley. no, no, there is no money in my books, no letters, no calls, nothing, that's when we found out that Kevin helped plan this murder, it was calculated and essentially Kevin used Sabrina to get his wife out of the scene and collect the money. life insurance money.

Sabrina's childhood, I think. probably the

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important thing to understand why something like this could happen Sabrina had never experienced a stable family a loving home the feeling of security the sense of belonging Kevin seemed to know how to take advantage of Sabrina's vulnerabilities in my opinion the verdict came very quickly The jury reached a guilty verdict. I think it took about two days. They described it as if she was having some type of mental episode. Her mother made the decision to take her to the hospital and have her checked out. The mother and daughter they brought she left leaving Rory in the care of the hospital for whatever reason, she ended up leaving before a doctor could see her, we see her leave the hospital on her own, that was the last known sighting we had of her overseas and we We've been backing up uh we probably removed about 10 pounds or 15 pounds of meat that looks like meat and no we don't know what it is the problem started several days before he didn't want to.

The plumbers called, he tried to snake the drain himself, he was making efforts to fix it on the 29th, it was getting so bad that the smell from the pipes was coming back into people's bathtubs, uh, the people upstairs took it upon themselves to call a plumber, the officers. scene decided to knock on the door of Adam Strong's basement apartment. They remember him lowering his head and making a comment almost instantly that the jigs up is a body. He commented to the rest officer if you want the rest of her, she's in me. freezer and she's pretty emaciated and there was actually someone in the freezer when Adam said Rory had a distinctive tattoo, she had the word alive tattooed on her neck and when they looked through the freezer they found a human head and there was a tattoo clearly displayed.

I knew at the time, yes it's Rory, we didn't know at the time what the cause of death was to press that charge, you need the reasons why the decision was made to continue our investigation to see where it took us, you told them to the officers. If you're looking for the rest of it, you'll find it in the freezer. A question for you: is this the person in that freezer? Rory. I plan to answer that question. Alright. You're saying that you refused to answer, but you're shaking your head like this. Does that mean anything? There is no interest for you at all and you tell us your side of things.

Yes, nothing, yes, strange, it's true. After three hours of doing it, it was clear we weren't going to get anywhere. we were wandering around obviously you don't care enough to help uh I needed why do you want some no I'm not fine yeah let's turn it off now we could have sat there for another three or six hours I don't I think we were going to get different results. Really, all I got from that interview was an idea of ​​who Adam was to help us move the investigation forward. Yes, thank you very much. It was the worst apartment I have ever been in.

For the mess, dirt and mess, you could barely move because of some small hallways there, there were several sex toys located in the apartment, restraint devices, handcuffs and whatnot, there was a bent hammer. We had located Rory's DNA on Roy's running shoes. In a bag in the apartment there were blood splatters located on the wall and lower baseboards leading to Adam's room. That knife is only designed for one use and one use only. It is a knife used by hunters to gut and skin animals. For a logical person, no. It doesn't make sense for you to keep all that evidence, but it seemed to be Adam's way of thinking that the DNA that was located on that knife was not through blood, it was a tissue-like material that we sent that knife for analysis and that we will receive.

The results showed that that knife contained the DNA of a second woman. The second victim was a 19-year-old woman who disappeared in 2008 and, like Rory, she was alone outside the house. Both victims were teenagers and both victims. They were more of a small build, you know, brown hair, almost a split image of each other, she disappeared 10 years before and Adam went unnoticed for 10 years, that makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up. I certainly felt some pressure. The reality is that if there was no conviction and he was a free man, how are you doing?

Yes, I had better days, it's okay, Paul. I've been surprised at how well I've been treated, apart from some of the staff in the eighth sinking, and that's going to get better. continues today yes, yes, I can tell you that I mean, that's good, that's wonderful, you know what was certainly verified in how he had been treated up to now, that's important to talk about admissibility, he addressed any needs that he had and said that he had not eaten. We take care of that story. I certainly knew we couldn't rush to talk to Adam about the case given the fact that how the two detectives fared in December 2017 sharing food with someone breaking bread with someone is an opportunity to bond. and talk and then once um that had lasted about an hour and a half I started to talk a little bit about the case, how much of his body did they recover?, obviously, the entire skeletal structure.

Well, obviously, whatever it was. in that, yes, in the freezer, how much were you able to get out of the pipes? Kinda, it was bad luck, yeah that's what I tell people, they say you're stupid, joking, well I just got it. greedy, that's all, the important thing is that Paul doesn't react to what most people would maybe react to, which is a you know, pretty shocking thing to say every time Adam gave me a bit of information, maybe even Unknowingly, Adam strong inside. Giving me a little punch just because I thought we were making some progress on the case.

Here, are you doing this right? It is frozen or it is partially thawed, completely thawed. Okay, that would take several hours. uh, no, we're in a bathtub. full of hot water oh, okay, yeah, like in a couple of hours. I wouldn't bet I had to fill the tub several times. We're going to talk about not moving, he thinks, and they're just talking about dismemberment and elimination, but he's actually allowing. In this case, the judge ultimately made inferences about what must have happened during the actual murders that took place. Okay, no, but I probably said more than I should have probably yes, the judge probably watched the entire 12 hour interview. and the ruling was quite clear that strong was well cared for seemed comfortable all his needs were met there was no deception there was no oppression this was essentially a failure in terms of lack of ability, which is rare in a 12 hour interview abroad it was convicted of first degree murder of Rory and finally convicted of manslaughter of the second victim, Detective Mitten and the investigation team had a charge of first degree murder and one manslaughter without a confession, there was definitely a danger that they would pull the indignity, so if things were bad in that interview room he might have walked, that would have been a travesty, it's really hard to describe Adam as strong.

I have never met an individual like him, it was a difficult investigation, but we spoke for the victims. trying to do justice and give answers to the family, the sentence they gave him is the maximum sentence that can be received in this country, so yes, I feel that justice was done. The planes stay above. Drew Clear has blood in the kitchen just down this hallway. we got one that was displayed on the floorWhile we were in the process of obtaining a search warrant, we were able to determine that it was Laura Grillo that died on the floor, the bottom gorilla was 37 years old, she was very active in her community.

She was like this ray of sunshine, she wanted to make the world a better place, she was getting married in a week. Laura and John were together for around seven years in total, they have a four-year-old son and Laura has two older children from previous relationships. He had asked if Laura was in the house listen to me, it looks like a gunshot, that's all I can tell you, you have cameras in the house, yes, they record, uh, they used to, I don't know if they do, okay? We found no forced entry for residents and the rest of the house appeared to be intact.

This did not seem like a random attack to us. Someone wanted her dead. Basically, the goal was to confirm John's whereabouts on the morning of the murder. cried softly for about 60 seconds reason for someone to come into the house a character I'll come here someone chose to come to that house the world that's what we're going to find out about the news okay John answered my questions he didn't care he owed no one any money no one was threatening the family they were waiting for a wedding and he seems to be excited he did not stand out as a suspect many of the people we spoke to described John as a very controlling person he did not treat Laura very well in public , we find out that John wanted to end the relationship with Laura, but he was also trying to maintain possession of his daughter.

We were able to collect video surveillance footage from a couple of home improvement stores that John told him about. We went to Dallas that morning, which proved that he was actually there at the time Laura was killed, so we knew he wasn't responsible for this, but we couldn't say at the time that he didn't have some involvement in the murder. configuration of this and we were able to confirm that shortly afterwards he had met with two workers at his construction business. Jesus was John's right-hand man, a sort of overseer of his work, John's go-to person. James said he'd only been working for the company for three weeks, so he'd barely met John and he liked me, don't be late, whatever was on the way, we were going to meet at Home Depot, yeah, okay, both Jesus and James were very sincere, very cooperative, uh, very. chatty, stories matched, seemed too relaxed, you know, just laughing and joking in the interview room, some of that stuff didn't really make sense when his boss's fiancee, who he had also known for several years, had just been murdered.

Jesus told us in his initial interview that he stayed in Dallas all morning, Laura was murdered and his phone records showed otherwise, what we found is around 8 26, he pinged a tower in Rowlett and the time his phone crashed into a cell tower in Rowlett about a mile from Laura's house was right at the time we thought Laura was killed. We know that James and Jesus were together that morning before meeting John. We wanted to talk to James again to let him know that we knew Jesus was lying to us. you said this twice that Manuel came to your house around 8 30 8 45 but I have information that the manual puts in another place to be honest that period of time not at your house I have proof that he was not at your house that is What time he was at my house I tell you that I analyzed everything, he was not there yet, even when we confronted him with facts that we knew he continued to deny, but I classified it as a weak denial, we knew that he still knew something about the murder they haven't released their dreams no, I mean, you know, I hope he doesn't use it on me now thank you, they were clearly worried because James was at the police department for so many hours and what he was telling us we were able to get in.

We contacted a couple of his ex-girlfriends, a former roommate of his, and these people had direct knowledge that John hired Jesus to kill Laura. We were also able to obtain a tip that Jesus was in Florida and provided that information to the United States. United States Marshal Service Hi James, Rangers tomorrow, how are you? James seemed to be very intrigued by the Texas Rangers. He really seemed to like dealing with the Rangers, like talking to the Rangers. I'm a little different than them because really everything I do. What you do is homicides, actually you remind me of the legend of the Texas Rangers that I heard about, but in the old days of the Wild West, yeah, yeah, they say all these Marshals and actions there and a Texas Ranger was needed, a Wyatt, a Ranger, okay?

The Texas Rangers are a legend here in Texas. I think it influenced James to be able to tell more of the truth. You see that he has his arms open. He is quite relaxed and that is a good posture to move and grasp more of the truth. You're on the edge of the Grand Canyon, right? And what I'm going to ask you to do is take a leap of faith and trust me. It's okay, you're my friend, right? I'm trying to be your friend. Well, I am. The best friend you have in the whole damn world, should I go get your pencil and paper?

So how was the start? When I first mentioned something about this, I ignored it. I did it because he shows up in the morning and we have a car and we're leaving now, I'm like I'm still thinking even when he gets there exactly how he does his thing. I didn't hear anything and when he gets back to the car, what he tells you is this is how he did it. or um in the head right, but it's pretty obvious that John ordered it, yeah she once said how much John paid her for it, she was bragging about something like 15 grand once James finally decided to tell us what he knew that we were capable of doing. take John into custody too hey come on sit down this was a well planned murder and we needed to close this case we needed John to confess well let me cut to the chase a little bit.

Jesus is an idiot, in the end. of the day you shouldn't hire an idiot to do a job because he's going to screw it up and if he doesn't screw it up he's going to talk about it. I don't even hire the idiot, that's my problem. what I don't hire the dog I don't break my money that's my problem for at least three years I loved here I still love him I said this I'm sorry oh I'm sorry they killed my wife I cried so many times I mean, you're telling me you know, you're telling me I basically admit that I hired him to commit the murder.

That's what you're telling me. Am I telling you to admit that you don't? I know you did that. I'm giving you the opportunity to tell the truth. I need to talk to Eternity. Yes, both John and Jesus were sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole and because James decided to cooperate in this investigation, he was allowed to plead guilty to one count of murder instead of capital murder and was sentenced to 25 years. I was glad that we were able to hold the responsible individuals accountable for what they did. Carl didn't show up for work, which wasn't like him at all.

He never missed work. Then people started calling and of course they called me. Do you know where he is? I was like none of his friends started calling and he ended up calling the police. When the Newton Falls Police Department arrived at the scene, they did not notice any signs of force. Upon entering, everything seemed fine and they finally contacted Carl's parents and made an entry into the foreign house. We found Carl located at the foot of the stairs covered with a tarp and a comforter with gunshot wounds. How I found out that my older brother called me from Looking at the condition of the body, it was estimated that he had been dead for two or three days, we discovered that he had three gunshot wounds, two in the torso and one in the head, and the gunshot wound in Carl's head was at point-blank range, they were obvious signs. from Dirty Play, you know, it instantly became clear that we were told that Claudia was originally from Brazil, that in the late '90s she moved to the US and became a naturalized American citizen.

Carl met Claudia through match.com and dated her for a couple of months and then for Whatever reason he decided to run away to Las Vegas and get married, that was a little impulsive for him nine months into their marriage. , he started to express some concerns about being married to Claudia, he just said that he wasn't happy with her and that he wanted to get away from her, I think she was taking his money, that's what he believed, so he started talking to me about wanting divorce. There were multiple efforts by the police and others to contact Claudia Harry, they were unable to connect with her, no one really knew where he was. and she quickly became a person of interest.

In a matter of a couple of months, we located Claudia in Brazil, but according to Brazilian law and the Brazilian Constitution, they did not allow the extradition of citizens to a foreign country, even if they are suspects. of committing a crime such as homicide, so the US government simply ran into a brick wall. Brazil simply did not want to cooperate. Claudia just lived freely outdoors, she believed that Brazil would never extradite her, so she just got away with it. I spent a couple of hours watching most nights corresponding with the embassy. I just wasn't willing to give up on that family, I never gave up the idea that anyone could get away with killing their son, their brother, our case was in the late 90's.

Claudia becomes a US citizen but signs her papers taking Allegiance to the United States of America and denying their allegiance to Brazil which brought us to the door. I said: I don't want her Brazilian ass, I want her American ass, it was a great relief. getting her back was a big hurdle on my shoulders out of nowhere, mid-flight, she says, you know, a wife doesn't kill her husband without a good reason, she put us on the plane in a really tenuous or unique way. . position, we don't know enough about the case to question her but, on the other hand, we have no legal obligation to make her stop talking and she spent the next two hours of this flight telling the story that she wanted to have heard foreign news from the beginning .

Here you gave these guys a statement about what happened, yeah, partial, partial, partial statement, okay, great, but I want to start over. I want, I want to go back to March 15, 2007. Yes, I thought backwards. I'm going to start backwards, I spelled very, I think, uh, interns, I think they had already talked to Tony and I on the plane, I think that would be a really good place to start as soon as we got married, but I didn't want to. being married oh, suddenly he was a different person it scared me a lot it's very very bad between me and very aggressive when we did it he did it to me it was torture he tortured me during the interview Claudia claimed to be an abused wife which we found no evidence of what she was saying it didn't match what the detectives were hearing from any of her friends family ex girlfriends in those cases where you have that type of abuse there is always some type of corroboration in her case there was Zero um I never want to be a father I never want to have children I want a wife, I said, but I'm four, I can't, I'm not going to have an abortion, you'll have a child, one.

One of the things I noticed right away was how rehearsed everything she said seemed to be. There were many statements she made in the interview room that were word for word, word for word, of what she had said on the plane, including some from her hands. movements, it was like she had been practicing this story and that seemed really strange to me after that thing starts to get out of control, right, yeah, plane, what happened? I went flying shooting, shooting well because I want to shoot, you have to understand. In that regard, I can't say that I've ever really been informed of anyone who bought a gun or obtained a gun to commit suicide and actually went to the range.

Here's the thing from an interview standpoint, sometimes it's a lie. it's more powerful than the truth we just had to let her keep talking because the more she does that the worse it is for her and he grabbed me he grabbed my throat myself he's very angry and I said um that's a very uh good idea but just give me a Please go to the basement because you're going to splash my paints, you're going to splash blood all over my paints. I mean, basically, he marked you with his paintings being more important than you, yeah. you're mad, he asked what's wrong then, well what happened next because I bet he got really mad and I got up real quick, shocked, he shot, what the hell is that ham lying down, come back here please yeah?

I was like he had gotten me up too quickly, I decided. he was my plan was one, I swear to God now for one it was a relief she confessed to shooting him now Mike could ask the hard questions let's pray the simplest question we didn't make a little easier just get divorced I tried you didn't let me which one was her story what was her response thank you mom change and lovely love you can live with the most beautiful woman in the world I love you that's where I'm going to change I was sitting here thinking how can anyone create this from the beginning, it felt like theater.

I think her narcissism overshadowed her intelligence and common sense and that when she left that room she probably felt like a foreign winner. My personal belief is that I think she wasn't very happy about it. she hadWe say hey let's go let's go mess with old Donny Jr today you think we did it that's not the way it works you know what I'm saying You're a young man, you've got your whole life ahead of you but I need to know what happened. Did it make him that angry or was it just an X wrestling news broadcast?

I was real in real life, yeah, yeah, the gun, how long? you're just gone you know that a long time ago it wasn't even mine they gave it to me they gave it to you who gave it to you some God and how what kind of God is that 38 at any moment he could ask his lawyer so I want to make sure keep talking to me, the only reason I had it, to be honest, you're honest when I was working at seven, but that's why I was getting something because I was working and for the past, while I mean, that's it. understandable, I mean, you have to protect yourself all the time, but we're talking about this guy here, but this man didn't deserve to die, you know what I mean, this man, that one, that one, that you shot and killed, this man was in the job.

Me, did you want to do it? I did not do it. Were you just trying to scare him or what was that? My main attention was just because he thought he was trying to interrupt you or what did I want to say at the same time. Trying not to make excuses, you know, I did what I did, yeah, kind of face the consequences, I was intoxicated, like I said, I was so discolored, like I was, my eyes barely open and you stick your finger out and that image goes away. and that is why are you silent?

Where does this lead when we show the Court? No, it's about Yeah, I mean, this is the whole research part, you know what I'm saying. Yes, well, yes, I did it like that. I'm going to be honest with his boss, if he had been someone else, he wouldn't have even told them that we laid the groundwork for him to be able to talk, we made him feel comfortable and that way he felt like he could talk to me. I'll be honest. You, you're going to be charged with murder tonight, okay, but let me ask you, this is like just help me, I'm young, I have my whole life prepared, I made this mistake, how long do you think they're going to hold me, you know?

I don't know, no, I don't make those decisions, it's murder, it's murder, yes, he finally sank in his chair and you saw his shoulders drop and his head drop and it seemed like total acceptance was finally there, he realized this. the show was over there was no more denial they were no longer covering it up foreigner Hill Farm Road the ambulance okay what's happening the truck fell on my stepson the truck is on your steps and I don't think he's alive okay putting under the truck yeah , honey husband lifts the truck, his chest is crossed, oh my god, Levi was 23 when he died, he had left behind two young children and was trying to make a living after a troubled childhood.

Levi married very young, he was a young worker. He worked hard to support his family abroad. I think most people would say it's a tragedy that a 23-year-old guy is murdered for no reason. She said that she had heard from Carl's second wife, Cindy Carlson, and that Cindy had told her that she had left her husband. and that she was afraid that he would come after her and that she believed that her husband had killed her son Levi. At the time it was really kind of a rumor, but we decided to take another look at it, however, strange days before Levi's death.

Carl takes Levi to a bank and takes out a life insurance policy for him, but with an rider that makes the value of the life insurance policy seven hundred thousand dollars. When I first re

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the 2008 report, there was no mention of any insurance policy. Of that money, Carl just spent money freely and did not keep any savings for Levi's children, we realized that we had to take a look at this Carl Carlson and see what this person was really like in 1991. Carl and Christina lived with their three children in a very small house on a very rural property in the woods Carl said that the children were taking a nap and that Christina was taking a bath Carl was in a workshop and heard the screams, he only said that he managed to rescue his children and them I pulled him out of his bedroom windows but the flames and heat made him retreat when he tried to rescue his wife.

I called the investigator who was very passionate about the case at that time any little animal burst into tears when he received my call, oh my God, I always dreamed that one day this call would come and here it is Kyle gave three different versions of what happened that day, how the fire started, at one point he was a volunteer firefighter, so he has some knowledge about fire. He claimed the dog had knocked over a kerosene jug. He then he said this light went out. There are different stories about what caused it, but foreign claims that he had boarded up this window because it was broken were suspicious. 17 nails Christina had a 150,000 life insurance policy at the time of her death Carl obtained the money and used it largely to finance her return to New York and start over with the children, according to the investigator they told him.

Carl went to New York, now it's New York's problem and we're not putting the money into this case anymore, just let it go, but then he said that he photocopied all the records and they're in a box in my basement. Go ahead, let me. grab your paperwork real quick, will you do that? Do you want to be here? That's true. I'll go ahead and deal with this. You want to start. Yes, the beginning is simply focusing on the death of Levi Carlson. He was very nervous. uh, because there was a lot of reliance on this interview and there was a lot at stake here, if he is the person we think he is, then other people are at risk, that was the day my son died, she and I had a funeral. go left at 11 30 fourth 12 somewhere like that it was on the other side of Seneca Lake um something was there BL means we're working on the truck changing the transmission lines brake lines the whole nine yards gave him some money Go away wouldn't work, I went to Branch, okay, and um, so we finished this, you know, talk to him, I said goodbye and um, so we left, we came back a little after four and went out, then we found it strange, They came and tried to do it.

CPR and he was already gone, we went to the hospital, we were not at all surprised that he was pasting his story, you know, a lie pasted becomes the truth, if it does not fail, that makes it difficult for us to expose the case. together we talk, nothing else is working, we can try some deception now, when you use deception in an interview, it is allowed to a certain point, but where that point is it is in a gray area, so you are taking a risk when you do it , there is a big problem now we already knew that there was no specific time of death in this case Tom came up with this concept that through medical technology we could know exactly what time he died and we knew what time Carl had left Yes, I wish I could say it.

He died in your presence, but when you go back there, if you are telling us the truth and saying that you had a conversation with him, you are lying because she was dead at that time. I had a conversation with him. I'll tell you that okay, well he was, or was dead when he went in there or when you came out, that's a fact, you're feeling the pressure and you're not able to tell the truth right now if you really follow it. What you did was cool and I think you did it in a minute, okay, I didn't kill the people, there's no way I could have done it, but he was dead when I went in there, okay, you're doing great, buddy, I think he's not crying here. he's trying to put on a show for the camera and for all of us that's emotional here, but the walls are closing in on him, that's what his body language tells us.

John's connection with Carl is almost like a father-son relationship that began early in In this interview we know that we have our best chance at getting to the truth by leaving John alone in that room. I let him down. I walked away and lived with it for four years. You know you guys somehow got that out of me. In a way it's been a relief well it should be a relief I never heard it it's good you did it right come on you're that close man you're close enough Let's help I could tell he's right he's ready to tell me something really big here and I gave him all the encouragement I could. could.

I'll walk with you if you do what are you going to do for me? I'm going to stand up and say that this was not a cold-blooded, premeditated murder, it was just something that happened. It happened sometimes, Carl, that's what I'll do for you. I open the front door, okay, when they did it and if I didn't hit the box underneath, but it wouldn't have happened. Carl accent, why did you try to hide it? he comes out with his final version that he made the truck fall on his son and then basically drove off and left him dying on the ground.

Carlson is a pathetic, sociopathic human being and was a serial killer in the making. I think he gets high from murder. I think you enjoyed it thank you foreigner this wasn't a job this case was about Levi this was about Christina this was about all the people whose lives were destroyed by Carl Carlson the scary thing was that he took out life insurance policies and his two granddaughters are It's crazy to even think that you could take out a policy like that and not inform the mother, but he did it and I have no doubt that there were subsequent