EP 127: The 7 PRC

of the case. Yes, I do. I did a first load with the 195. Hamburger EOL bullet and found some pretty good reasonable velocities in the mid 27's. I think if I remember correctly I shot really good groups, yeah I ended up settling on a 180 grain match load which It was pretty hot somewhere in there. 20 uh 28 I think it was like 28 80 28 75 on a 20 inch, yeah, and it was my handloads that I chose. I think they sent us a couple boxes of ammo, they loaded up some pre-production ammo and I. m I think my data was 28.40. for that same barrel combination, a little slower than what I had loaded, which makes sense.

I think you get into that 65,000 PSI that's pretty hot, but you know when you're loading stuff from the factory you always get a couple thousand PSI out of that, so that makes sense to me, but I like that the gun worked for us. Well this year, we've killed a lot of animals with it and, to me, I don't feel any significant difference between that. configuration and the Seven Dollar M that I've been shooting, I mean, as far as the case capacity, as far as the velocity potentials with twist rates of the bullets, I mean they're essentially ballistically identical. right, kinda different yeah look at the 7lrm I think the shoulder is maybe a hundred thousand forward so a little bit longer okay so what that should tell everyone that has a 7lrm is that you're not going to put a 7p or C reamer in there and clean it out which I think is a question a lot of guys have yeah you have to put a barrel back yeah which you could also just shoot the barrel and just put it in the barrel yeah , I think I think the neck. like the neck mouth of the case is almost a quarter of an inch shorter, yeah, I mean, visually, you put the two next to each other, you know, and we'll post some pictures, but I mean, it's visual, but yeah , but if you turn around, if you turn it around and see how much longer the throat is, yes.

I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't have more usable capacity because you're not taking up space inside the case. It's interesting, in fact, I would almost say it has to be that way. crazy or just a little more than a 7lrm yeah so I mean trying to compare apples to apples something people can expect. You know, the 24 inch barrel is pretty standard to the extent that you're trying to get a general comparison so you can Would it look like they're billing it for 29.50 with a 180 of the 24 inch barrel? It's a little more than that. I mean it was the 175 to 3000, yes, and the 180 to 29.75, I think.

Well, that's your target speed for your factory. I think we'll see it in our guns right in that 29, you know, 30 to 29.50, yeah, yeah, in a 24 inch, it looks like that's what we've seen. with the tests, yeah, and you would compare it almost identical to the lrm, that's what we've been getting, that's what we've been running, yeah, I just want to say, I guess to compare and contrast a little bit, I mean, in comparison, Rem. You're probably looking at Mag, a little bit faster than 28.50, so the way I always stacked the lrm was that you're all, you're 75 feet per second faster than a Rem Mag and you're around 75 to 100 feet. per second slower than a 28 right in the middle, yeah, yeah, that's how I always characterized it.

Well, you know, the outside diameter of that lrm case is the same as if the seven Rem Mag belted Magnum case continued. forward, so there's a little bit to gain there, um, to compensate and then you know maybe on the low end you have like the Psalm seven and the Accolade 280, it's probably going to be 100 feet per second slower, you know, the seven sums They are really very close. to a seven Rim Mech, yeah, yeah, we almost doubled the ram charger, maybe you give up 10 or 15 feet per second, right, but it's there, the biggest problem with the psalm is the bulletins, yeah, it's like everyone They would say oh, I want short action. because those 0.3 inches make a big difference in how fast I can reload my gun or how light my gun is, but as soon as you go to a short action, you are limiting your lengths and therefore everyone who is playing, unless you're just doing Fully Custom Ammo Wildcat Custom Gun stuff that if you know what you're doing right, if you don't you could open it up yourself, but if you have that short action and you're trying to load a 180 grain bullet in those Seven Psalm is like you give up a little bit of speed you do it, it's a little soft and it's hard to take advantage of the case and still fit the right throat and magazine combination so I really don't think the Psalm Seven is comparable . like it's a little bit more on that Rem Mag seven and from what you said before it's a little bit outdated I mean camera and I sell a lot of them I mean it's got some sex appeal but it's not the right cartridge, so that's all that uh uh Mama Bear perfect, you know, the porridge situation, right, I guess it's not too hot or too cold here, yeah, yeah, you can get more speed out of the 28, but with it comes a tremendous amount of pushback, uh, share those numbers you were on. telling me about this, I actually did, I actually called this, yeah, but yeah, I think Neil Neil did a good job of convincing me using an online ballistic recoil calculator, a 10 pound gun, uh 7prc at a modest 29.50 , which will be approximately a 65 grain load.

The powder weight will give you 23.24 pounds of recoil. You go up to a modest 28 to 30 50 nozzle. So 100 100 feet per second of velocity gain, but you're using 82 grains of gunpowder to achieve that, so you have more gunpowder. there and you're going to go from 25 to 29.12 pounds, look, and that lines up exactly with this. We did a little infographic comparison of seven millimeters a couple of years ago and maybe we'll do a review there. and it pulls the 7prc, but yeah, what's crazy is the guys that are really stomping on the 28, so you could shoot that same 180 grain bullet another 100 feet per second faster, so 31.50 and some guys obviously push it further. that, but that's more than 90 to 95 grains of gunpowder 95 grains of gunpowder, that's an increase of 48 over the original 7 lrm charge, yeah, well that backs up exactly what I was talking about, why I walked away from the 28 as my favorite cartridge, yeah, because you just lose control of the gun and most people get into this uh well, I'm tough, I can handle the recoil, the recoil doesn't bother me right, you hear it a thousand times, but The problem is if you study the Dynamics of a rifle and you pick it up, you put the 10 pound gun or better yet, what everyone wants to buy is an eight to eight and a half pound gun, you put an eight and a half pound gun and together a situation of strong setback. the gun actually moves more before the bullet exits, which means the gun accelerates faster backwards and would, and if you look at what it takes to fire a gun consistently and produce good accuracy and precision too, but precision is the capability of that weapon.

To forgive, you know some of your inconsistencies in the way you grip or the pressure you put on and the faster the gun recoils, the more it moves and the more consistent you have to be, you know, shot to shot and from a hunting perspective on the that you're not always in this perfect plane, you know, prone, a lot of times you know, behind the gun grind where you might have to just pull and shoot, and if in that scenario, that extra recoil is faster, weird The word recoil makes the gun a little more sensitive and now you push, you know, half to three quarters of MOA at your point of impact at 850 yards and if you rack up a couple more errors that already puts you in a bad situation, that's the difference between a hit or a miss in the end, continuing as a shooter, if I can see where the bullet hits, I can have another bullet in the chamber and probably shoot before the observer has been able to process what he saw and tell me, so again I have more success in the field by not disturbing my view.

You absolutely know that's why we break muzzle the way we do, that's why we design stock the way we do and that's why we choose the cartridges we make, this applies perfectly up to an Ackley five pounds and a half, 280, you know you have the same experience, yes, exactly, just to add this and why we push a lot of guys even into a six five versus a seven, your six five PRC is literally half the recoil. energy, so if you can get away with a six five, that's why we push a lot of guys down the schedule, well that's why everyone says they love their six fives, yeah, yeah, 'cause they shoot 'em somewhere right and even going back to 28, what are they?

You are really winning for all that extra recoil and very well if you are pushing the limits and this is what got me there the first time. I feel strongly that you must have enough impact velocity for the bullet to reach. It doesn't expand much, just something you know, the main reason is because if the bullet expands you get shoulder stabilized penetration which means it goes straight through, if the bullet doesn't expand then it drops and you can hook on from J, sometimes it will happen, but I In fact, I have seen a bullet come out of the same side of a moose.

A bullet that did not expand. The triple impact of an old barn enters and exits from the same side. Crazy, yes, crazy thing. I'm convinced that a certain amount of expansion allows that bullet to stabilize uh in the shoulder, meaning it goes from a spin stabilized projectile to a shoulder stabilized that allows it to penetrate directly. It's the same reason you build those big game bullets or the old Keith bullets in 44 with the wide platform because that creates shoulder stabilization, the second application is that shoulder or that face, that flat face, it displaces the tissue Yes, of course, and that hydrodynamic damage, that tissue displacement damage that occurs in the wound cavity, actually causes much more damage than that caused by the bullet itself.

I think that's what a lot of guys think of when they talk about tackling, right. I mean, their takedown isn't scientific, but they're trying to translate what they're seeing into reality. knock down, it's a term, right?, but that's more. I think it's creating a dynamic expansion if you get a little bit of expansion it will go right through and create a larger wound cavity than just the bullet, yeah right, so in that impact the velocity is what essentially drives that. expansion which in the bullet design is like a tipped bullet design, that tip is a very soft material that disintegrates quickly, so you end up with this flat nose shape that accepts more work from the impact of the bullet than a really sharp bullet.

The tip that is copper is much, it is much stronger, so it takes a little bit more definitely for that tip to fail and I would even propose that most of the time it starts spinning and the bullet just breaks in half and then it expands at that point. Yes, but then you have a plastic tip that fails and will expand, so yes different bullets require different velocities, but my number for a VLD style bullet like a hotel copper tip, you should have 2000 feet per second. yeah, you get into a tipped bullet, you know, I think you can drop to that 1800 number, so somewhere between 1800 and 2000 feet per second is the impact velocity that you need, so if you take that as a threshold and you say, well, what?

The combination of cartridge bullets will take me further because I need to be able to kill Elkin 1200. Because I promise you I'm going to see a 375 bull up there and it's going to be 1200 yards away and I'm going to need to shoot it so that 1200 yards was my target. and that's what got me to 28. I could get just another hundred, maybe 150 yards from an effective terminal, that was the point I wanted to get. I agree with 100 on the The need for additional speed is terminal, but when you look at a possible 48 increase in recoil, you are really only buying 150-200 yards range, sometimes it is key, but it is not okay because The juice wasn't worth it. the squeeze yeah yeah and what I did was I switched to a tipped bullet instead of that vld style and that tipped bullet gives me that extra 200 feet per second 1600 on some of the good bullets yeah those are pushing , pushing them, but yes. well, and not to mention a lot of these guys who are never going to shoot beyond a thousand yards or 800+ or ​​wherever they live, sticking to these extra large Magnums, now you're getting all that negativity without any no's. benefit, yeah, nothing you need, the other one I was going to say is the wind, anything you can do to reduce wind deflection has value because none of us are perfect at guessing when you're safe, so that's the second one, those are the two factors I use when evaluating a cartridge, yes, it might be more fun if we have Dave here where you guys can come and go, but the idea that doubling the velocity quadruples the resistance against it, yes, for It tells me a lot about why it's so hard to get. significant gains just by adding more dust, yeah, well not only that, but here's another piece that a lot of people maybe don't realize or don't take into account, so we've been through this, we've been through a lot of different things. things in our company, I mean,check it out at gun wars.com, give us a call, we are building them and have some ready to take with you, hurry up to make it clear.

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