ELON MUSKRÓL ÉS EMBERSZERŰ ROBOTJÁRÓL, OPTIMUSRÓL: Bazsó Gábor, szakújságíró/F. P. 62.

Welcome everyone, we're here and we have another new podcast today. This show is in two acts: first there will be, I hope, a fascinating conversation about Elon Musk, this world-famous innovator, the richest man in the world today, who is certainly one of the most fruitful developers on the planet. that he thinks differently about the future, that he has revolutionized many industries in recent years, and that a few weeks ago he presented Optimus, Tesla's humanoid robot. And in the last session of our program, we will again have an example of what we can do to keep our planet alive in our own context, so here we will have our Green and Green column again.

But first, a preview of the main topic of today's podcast. - The things he is doing are not at all in the category of easy wish fulfillment, which is why someone doesn't start making an electric car when all the big car companies in the world say it's impossible because it's easy, and he's not there. making rockets that can land because it's easy, when everyone from NASA to Roskosmos to China says it's stupid, it's not easy. These are all terribly difficult things that can have a very big impact on the world for various reasons, and the acquisition of Twitter is in the same category.

I think you're very wrong on many points, and you're really underestimating the problem, and you're assuming the wrong things, and the first steps you take are in the direction of not really understanding, and you could be in big trouble and Twitter too. However! And that's a big one, though. In that sense, I'm like the President of General Motors or the President of Toyota ten years ago, or the President of NASA ten years ago, that's what I think I'm good at, and the fact is that in at least At least in Two or three cases it has already turned out that I was not right, or they were not right, but he was, and this may well be another of those things where he ends up being right. - Regarding Twitter. - Finally, yes.

I don't know, I don't see how, and at the moment I see more problems than good, but it's pretty good... looking back, it's turned out to be a pretty good percentage that he's right after all. - I don't know about you, but technological progress, from which the vast majority of humanity expected a fundamental improvement in the quality of life, now seems to be increasingly a source of fear, sometimes terror, as it penetrates our daily life. and transforming it in more and more areas, and sometimes these technological innovations even threaten to escape control. Without a doubt one of the most controversial figures of this strange and formidable era, communicator, businessman, prophet for his fans and showman for his opponents is Elon Musk, born in South Africa, then Canadian and then American, who, it is said, can alter the world, both in the good and bad sense of the word.

This inescapable man has set out to use the latest scientific and technical discoveries and inventions to offer a new type of aspiration, a new way of life or, in other words, a new type of product and service designed for a mass consumer population. humanity. This man has certainly broken taboos, for example when he showed cumbersome and pedantic bankers how to withdraw money from everyday life en masse. But he has also forced car manufacturers and distributors, who proclaimed the eternal life of gasoline cars, to start producing and selling electric models themselves. Then, for example, it was proven in practice that missile designers and manufacturers argued that the task was impossible and that the reusable launcher was no longer a fantasy.

And with their robotic developments and extensive use of artificial intelligence, they have long been driving developers crazy with their self-driving cars. He then surprised scientists by implanting behavior modification microchips into the brains of pigs and monkeys. All of this is complemented by the promise of autonomous, human-shaped robots that dreamed of being intelligent. The starting point of today's discussion will be the presentation of the Optimus Subprime, or in simpler terms, of this robotic man, which at first glance seemed like a failure, since what Musk's team presented a few weeks ago seemed more Well, a limited, half-hearted version. finished product.

For this occasion I have invited Gábor Bazsó, alias Karotta or Nino Karotta, journalist and broadcaster, founder of the car magazine Totalcar, who is not only an observer of the career of the innovator but also the famous billionaire Musk, but also a believer and follower of the entrepreneur. As I have known Gábor Bazsó since he was a small child and have a close friendship and working relationship with his mother, Katalin Rangos, we will of course use an informal manner with Gábor. - Gábor, how old were you when I met you? - I don't think you can assign it a positive integer yet. - Meaning? - Well, I guess nothing. - I thought when you were one or two years old.

I just wanted to say that time has passed! - Yes Yes. I wasn't lucky enough to be able to make a pocket like that outside the time axis where it stops like you did. - I did it, okay? Do you believe that? - Well, it's just possible that I have become a middle-aged man and you haven't. - I'm still a child in arms. - Yes Yes. - Good. Before entering into the analysis of Musk… Do they call him Musk? What are you saying? Elon Musk? - Let's say yes. - Because sometimes they do say it with 'E'. - I prefer Elon to Elon.

I don't think it makes much difference. - Comfortable. Sometimes they say it like that, sometimes they say it like that. - Yes. - As I do before every guest, I give you a brief introduction, an excerpt from your life, tell me if I'm wrong. Born in 1977 in Budapest, Gábor Bazsó is 45 years old, his father is a neurosurgeon and his mother is a radio and television journalist. Gábor Bazsó graduated from the Kölcsey Ferenc Institute and then studied at the Faculty of Foreign Trade and the Budapest University of Economics. During his university years, he began working at a public relations agency, where he initially wrote and translated press releases and information materials, and then became the company's first online communications specialist in the late 1990s.

Róbert Winkler asked him to write for Totalcar magazine around the time of its launch, as he had already published under the name Karotta in Index's Car-HiFi section. He wrote his first article for Totalcar, titled Figure Skating and Death Cry, under the name Nino Karotta, in the then six-week-old online magazine in September 2000. How did figure skating get into the magazine? of cars? - Because I was the youngest outsider at that time, just that one time, and to the outsider, now a running motoring magazine I would say: bring me a topic, show me that you know how to write and that you can figure out what it is about.

But at that time my editor, who was Winkler, was so diligent that he told me that there was something about a driving course at the Automobile Club and that he should go write something about it. I would have loved to have written something funny about it. There's a part of driving training where you have to do things with spray resin, emergency braking, swerving, not crashing, and figure skating was a reference to the fact that we were sliding with the cars, and that's when he wrote the first two-part report for Totalcar. - Figure skating and death cry. - Yes. - Continuing with your biography, in 2001 you became deputy editor-in-chief and then general director of Totalcar, which had barely existed for six months.

In 2002, he launched together with Róbert Winkler his motor show Totalcar on TV2. This highly innovative, entertaining and subjective automobile exhibition was loved by both spectators and critics. During its existence, it has twice won awards at the Kamera Hungária Festival. In 2007, Gábor Bazsó was asked to head Index Video Zrt., Index's video content subsidiary. From 2010 to 2017 he was creative director of the Index group, from 2017 to 2020 he was again general director of Totalcar and since 2020 he is editor-in-chief of Totalcar. He speaks English and French and is married to a web development manager, he has two children, the oldest is 11 years old and the youngest is 1.- Exactly? - Perfect. - If everything is in order, bear with me for ten seconds, our followers have the floor. - Let's start with Gábor Bazsó's in-depth presentation about Elon or Elon Musk.

In the introduction I said that after inventing so many things, Musk came up with a humanoid robot a few weeks ago. But he started off with a bit of a fiasco, because instead of walking in on his own and acting, the robot had to turn around and all he could do was wave. One might wonder why Elon Musk took this blame, which he commented in a somewhat self-deprecating manner: The robot can do a lot more than we showed it, we just didn't want it to fall on its face. . - Yes. It's very difficult to talk about this in a way that gives an understandable and coherent picture if someone doesn't have Musk, friend.

Going back decades. - Let's say that most of our viewers know him. - Yes, they know, but not in the sense that they have not followed him for a relatively important part of his life and, most importantly, have not heard him tell stories. - Unlike you, who has been present for most of your life? - We did not grow up together in South Africa, but for quite some time now I have tried to follow what he does very closely, which is the most important step, and I recommend it to anyone interested in the phenomenon that surrounds him. , always listen to what he says with his own mouth.

So that today there is no other human being on Earth, no one, including all the great politicians in the world, who is surrounded by as much noise, proportionally as much garbage, as Musk. He is a very well-known figure, he has a very strong opinion about him, and usually a very strong opinion generates interpretations in the minds of most people that do not necessarily correspond to reality, and he was being very diplomatic. In short, there is a lot of nonsense around him. By his own admission, he has mild Asperger's, and one of the things relatively well known about this is that people with Asperger's don't like to talk out of turn.

It is very easy to point out, and it is pointed out very often, that the guy is a scrupulous liar and promises anything for tomorrow when it is obvious to him that is not the situation, and in the end he somehow twists things to become the richest man in the world. That's not my theory. So I think Musk is certainly an extremely good businessman, which we'll talk about, and he's certainly a great marketing guy, and he has a lot of things to really take credit for, and he's also a real, unscrupulous liar. and terrible. . So all this is true.

But apart from that, certainly the more outrageous claims, for example about products, or the fact that he agrees with a story like this, that they are even going to put a robot on the stage that is obviously not finished and He even jokes about it, it's because he knows they're going to do it. They will work until it really works. - But why do they show the unfinished robot? - The reason they show the robot in a semi-finished state is that this demo was about us working in a company that is big and powerful enough to do pretty difficult things, and that we have already proven that we can. make a million electric cars, for example, while no one else could, that we can make money doing it, while no one else can, that I'm the guy whose other company makes rockets that go up and back and we put more things in space than everyone else. other countries together.

And now I say we will do it, we are just doing it now, and the message was not to buy it, the message was to come work here if you want to do something that is so critical to the destiny. of humanity in a place where you will be paid tomorrow and the next day and the next day, and if you do, millions and millions and millions of pieces will be made. - Oh, was it actually a recruitment campaign with some kind of demonstration? - Yes, and they said that because we are not prepared, but we want to do it. - Why did you come up with two robot variants at once? - What happened was that two prototypes were presented, one first and one second.

The first prototype was able to get out on its own two feet, clumsily, with unfortunate movements, with wobbly legs, with everyone worrying every second about "My God, my God, I hope there's no problem," but at least it got out. . Then came the most advanced one, whom they did not even try to get out on his feet. They picked him up, helped him out, and then shook him a little awkwardly. - Is this the second one called Optimus? - Optimus is actually the name of this project. That will not be the name of the finished product, it will be called Tesla Bot. - The demonstration showed a video of this robot performing simple tasks, if I remember correctly, such as watering plants, carrying boxes or lifting small metal bars.

But the various target robots, let's say industrial ones, have been known and used for decades. On the other hand, it is often said that Musk likes to rethink, or at least think differently, the knowledge we already have in the world. In fact, we can see this robot as a reinvention, and if it is one of Musk's reinventions, how is his philosophy different from the robots he has built so far? - People often wonder howHe dares to do it, how is it like a guy who studied physics but never finished and suddenly dares to think that he is going to make robots.

Before that, where did you get the courage to start a space company? Let's stop fooling around about how you're going to design a rocket! The guy who was, I don't know, programming before! Well, that's not what it usually is. Musk buys industrial robots in very large quantities, as they actually produce millions of his cars. Now, what we see, the Tesla Bot is not going to replace these. So the humanoid robot is not there to put a small inverter welding machine on its shoulder and weld with it. But at the same time, there are also many activities that humans currently perform, and they do so because robots are not well prepared to perform them.

This robot will be suitable for this type of tasks, among others. For example, loading boxes in a logistics center is currently a human task, and because of human tasks, because of the environment, the boxes are so big, so heavy, so shelving, so accessible. It is very easy to install a humanoid robot there because the environment is configured to suit the robot's capabilities. - So these robots are already one step closer to replacing humans? - They are specifically designed to replace humans because the process of washing dishes is already invented, the tools we use to wash dishes, the food we eat, for example, and the dryer and I don't know what. .

And if you take a person who's been doing this, the housekeeper, and you get the poor woman out of there, you can replace her by handing her over to a robot with cleaning skills that can go in there and bend down and grab things. in the same way, you can put them in the sink, when you wash them, you can put them in the washing machine, then hang them, spread them, which is exactly what you need physically, so you don't need a separate robot to spread the dishes, a robot to wash the dishes, a robot to make the beds, but a robot housekeeper. - But all these things together in a complex way. - Now, this humanoid robot, what are the characteristics of this robot?

How much does it weigh, what is its performance, how long can it perform activities, for example? - It is approximately the size of a human, so it is about 170 centimeters tall, about 60 kilograms. Its mass should not be much larger than that of a human being, because, on the one hand, problems arise immediately, such as it breaking under something the size of a human body, which should not happen, and on the other hand , there is bound to be a time when you will be physically interacting with people, so you will obviously cause a lot more physical harm to an older woman if you get the checks stuck to her while shopping. - Because you can do it.

And then, for example, will this robot be able to do a full day's work in the version that is being developed? - For the moment, the objective is to put the energy necessary for a day of work into a charge, and that is what its battery is sized for, which means an 8-hour shift, or 8 hours of work, but knowing the logic, That It certainly doesn't mean you can run a marathon for 8 hours, but it does mean you can spend, say, 8 hours hunched over a desk, stitching the sole of a shoe all the way up, as would be the case in the poor South.

East Asian woman who now supports her family with that. - Inside the robot, for example, where is the brain installed, to the extent that the batteries, in the case of robots, correspond to the brain? - All heavy equipment, including the battery and control electronics, is now located in the chest area. The way the robot is currently configured, the control computer, if you will, so the computer that is most important to its intelligence is largely half of the computer that runs the driver assistance system, or later the autonomous driving system, in Tesla cars called Autopilot. - So, in fact you are already taking elements from your previous inventions, the units that can be installed here and that are suitable? - That's how it is.

That's one of the reasons why it's not worth sweeping this whole thing under the rug, because it's a ridiculous joke that will never work. The starting point is the premise that the FSD computer developed for Tesla cars and the software it runs are designed for exactly the same task. It is then about interpreting what she sees with her cameras. The processor's little brain has to figure out what a wall is, what a road is, what to stop in front of and what to avoid. And there, I'm not saying they're done, but they're miles ahead of anyone who's designing robots right now.

Until now this has not been a problem with robots, the main concern of the robot has been to be able to weld skillfully, or to be able to carry out this specific task, and it has not been the goal of the robot to understand if it is an older woman. , a small child, a crossroads, a traffic light that has a certain color, which may or may not pass, that is a completely different matter. As far as the propulsion itself is concerned, the engines... a lot of engines are needed here, and where something has to move, there is usually an engine somewhere nearby. - So there are as many tiny motors as there are movement organs of the robot? - There are some areas where yes, relatively directly the motor itself, or the actuator itself is actually very close to the joint, it says it's moving, but generally there is some type of mechanical transmission.

So what happens is not that the motor itself pulls the lever in, that there is no motor and there is a small gear, and then the gear turns and pulls the lever in, but there are mechanical transmissions that also help this , which by the way, they have There have been fantastic examples of how fun it is to think and work on things like this, how you can make it so that the motor has to run with less energy, because there is some kind of influence on the movement of that joint , and there are areas, like the fingers, where you don't work like that, so when you pull your finger in, it's not that there's a muscle here and it's contracting, it's that the muscle is in your forearm and the tendon goes from your forearm.

The muscle pulls on it and pulls on the finger. - Where is the motor then, in comparison, so that the hand, for example that of the robot, can move? - The fingers, the fingers will be moved by the Tesla robot in the same way that the motor that pulls the cables that replace the tendons is in the forearm, and the cables run along the fingers. In many cases it is worth copying what evolution has done because evolution has been happening for a long time, we have been developing the humanoid for much longer than we have been developing the humanoid robot. - In comparison, what complex technical, mechanical and software problems must Musk's development engineers solve in order to make these machines, which are still clumsy, or at least as they were created, were so clumsy, capable of becoming human? , to behave like a human? - The first and most obvious, of which we have seen examples, is orientation.

Compared to navigating the environment, getting the robot to move naturally is a relatively simple matter. I know this doesn't seem easy to understand or believable in the sense that we just saw that you can't do that either, okay, I say it's relatively simple, but then you couldn't do it. but with the current state of science and technology we can do something like that. Tesla hasn't done it yet, but others have, like Boston Dynamics, for example. - And they took it from there, for example? - No, they haven't taken it yet and rightly so. Boston Dynamics has been developing robots for a long time, for decades, a lot of what they can do is pretty amazing, and the way their humanoid robots move, for example, is amazing.

They are good tumbling jumpers, dancers, they can do floor exercises, which is a little scary. - They've been doing it since '92 and they say Boston Dynamics has developed at least 35 robots that are fit for purpose. - That's how it is. So, in principle, you already know some of these things. You see how proud they are of how long they've been working on this. And then the Boston Dynamics robots work in rows and have displaced the Indonesian shoemakers...? - I don't know. They are not? - Not precisely. - Kawasaki also has a robot that I think they use in disasters because it can transport very heavy objects.

Although this is parallel to what you said, in fact, you cannot perform that operation alone. - Yes, and the demonstration that Kawasaki did was very suspiciously similar to that of a laboratory. So when... Not in the sense that they weren't people in white coats! They have taken it to a large international exhibition to present it, but when you really feel that the robot follows its course, which it has already traveled 150 times in the test, it is laser scanned to the millimeter and knows exactly what to move. - But in practice it cannot be deployed? - No not yet. - No? - Kawasaki doesn't say it's something that can be introduced, but it shows that they are working on something like this anyway, which will hopefully make it here at some point.

However, and that's the exciting part of all of this, and it relates to what you asked: getting a robot, even a humanoid robot, to the point where it's physically able to move somewhere, grab something heavy, and Lifting it is a relatively simple task. It gets terribly complicated if the task was that I'm sitting in the studio with you, and I'm the robot, and you tell me to bring your luggage from the street or the front door. And for that, I need to (A) have some concept of what a street is and where I am now. I need to understand from what I see what a wall is and what a door is.

I need to know how the door opens, so I need to have a concept of the handle. I have to have joints that somehow allow me to operate the handle, which not all robots can do trivially because you have to be able to grab it once, you have to be able to rotate your wrist because that's what the handle is for, because humans can do that, but for a robot to have the same degree of freedom with the manipulator that it has to do something with, it's not obvious, and then I have to be able to go there and know what a corridor is, I have to understand the threshold, so I have to see that there is something there that you have to cross, there is a whole range of things of that nature.

I have to understand that the elevator door or I don't know, the stairs, work differently. And these are the areas where Tesla has a potentially big advantage thanks to his ability to artificially interpret the human transportation environment. Tesla cars have a hardware and software package called Autopilot, what they do is have 8 cameras, 8 cameras that look in every direction imaginable and interpret the images. And from the interpreted image, it makes a 3D model, so it brings together in itself what it sees, what is the surface of the road suitable for driving, what is the pavement, what is the person, what is the dog, which is the wall, which is the lady, which is the fallen tree, and inside these he drives the car.

In fact, it is a terribly complex task, so complex that Musk underestimated it many times, it must be admitted later, and openly Musk also admitted to having underestimated it many times, but they have come a tremendously long way, no one doubts it. . - If only because, sorry to interrupt, the human body is quite complex, in terms of movement or movement of the body, body parts, limbs, not to mention thinking. In that sense, even the most advanced robots we've had the pleasure of seeing are pretty boring, to say the least. - Yes. - Incorporating subtle movements, and I think you're talking about this in addition to thinking, which of course is not thinking, it's training or programming, I should say, what kind of challenges does incorporating subtle movements into the robots present for the developers? ?

Because if I understand that's what you're talking about. - Yes, I'll get to the point soon. Traditionally, computer science teaching has been done algorithmically. So we write an algorithm to know exactly what we should do. While in many cases complex activities cannot be defined that way, and I have a perfect example, if you want to teach a child to ride a bicycle, you can explain to him that the way to ride a bicycle is by sitting on the bicycle seat. , you push both pedals up and down, and you're trying to turn with the handlebars and when you feel like you're going to fall to the left, you shift your weight to the right so that doesn't happen, and you can explain it to them in the highest terms of the world and will fall flat on their faces instantly, guaranteed, no later than the fourth second.

But you can't really teach him to ride a bike just by putting him on the bike and doing it. Because the big difference is that these are not intellectually controlled processes, the brain simply does not work like that in this matter, they are not conscious processes, they are terribly slow compared to what is needed for such complex movements, but what happens is that the child You sit on the bike, you start doing what you've been given and your brain also starts to learn completely unconsciously what worked and what didn't. And the way modern machine learning tries to work is exactly the waysame.

So even the neural networks that run on your hardware try to mimic this, and the machine learning algorithms that are written for them try to do exactly the same thing: there are certain processes that they assign points to so that they can calculate and figure out what should be done. happen, and then they repeat it over and over again, and in the process, they see what worked and what didn't, and through that, they can learn complex things like how to interpret the outside world, how to execute a move first very badly, then not so badly. , then even less bad, and keep improving the software until you finally get it right. - I heard from you or read somewhere that when you were designing the joints of the robot, for example, because in humans, I think 28 joints can move in 200 different ways, or perform the movement, and the hand alone has 27 different ones. movements, and within that, there is a variety of movements, they were looking for the optimal way to place all this in the body of the robot.

So how could they be translated, for example, into movement for the robot? How will it be possible? -So that I have to learn. And here to learn... You can't program on it. - I see, but you can only learn if you have all the options, right? -Look, a child, when he is born, doesn't know anything. So, a little potato lying on his back, squeezing. The robot will be like that in many ways at first, in the sense that there will be things that it won't understand at all, but it will be able to modify its model to see why it did what it did, why it did those things, why. failed and then you can modify your next experiment based on that.

This is how children learn, this is how humans learn, and if this is how the robot can learn, then it will start to be really useful, and Tesla is relatively ahead in this matter. There are already millions of real products that are also capable of learning. Musk didn't say that either, and it's impossible with the current state of science anyway, let alone the current state of technology, making a robot that you can actually send to the store to buy milk is a very complicated thing. Making a robot that is humanoid and can be left to do the boring, mechanical tasks that humans have to do, so what you can say, here's this beak and you use it to milk coal, that's quite feasible.

Sewing the shoes is fine, loading the dishwasher in this particular department, once you've learned that, I think it can be done after a while, but... - Now, if I understand you correctly, here we are. They are, and Musk's humanoid robot wants to outdo them all. - Yes, but not from the first moment. - But the goal is still to replace many of the domestic and other human activities that are much more complex than what single-purpose industrial robots were and are, for example. - Yes, but the important thing is that obviously there will be some kind of gradualism and they will generally start from there, they say, and common sense dictates that they will start from a more closely functional, more repetitive, but relatively easier to understand programs, or target tasks , and a very important difference, they will be much, much cheaper than a serious target robot today. - Approximately the equivalent of 8 million florins, if I read it correctly.

Is it planned for mass production anyway? - It is absolutely designed for mass production, and that is why Tesla is more worth taking seriously than many other companies, because other companies make robots, there are even companies that make humanoid robots, and there are even companies that make humanoid robots that move more. agilely than Tesla. But a company that makes a humanoid robot and is at the point of its perception and interpretation of the environment that Tesla is in and the millions of robots experience it and transmit it to the control center and process it and send it back to the robots and it teaches the whole system through that, and we have solutions ready for that, there is no such thing.

And so anything that can produce complex, complicated things, made up of these types of components, with these types of processors, computers, electric motors and parts, millions of units per year, does not exist. In reality, a significant proportion of household tasks are much more complicated than we think. There will be problems with washing, cooking, ironing, but I think you will learn them relatively quickly, and that is a very high demand for you to be skilled, so we will probably experience this very soon, along with the fact that it seems like a relatively high task is First of all, the care of people and the elderly, so the care of patients and the elderly, because there are parts of it that are not complicated.

So, for example, recognizing that someone has fallen and being able to help them get up is not a complicated task that cannot be programmed. It would be much harder to have a fun conversation with that person, or be empathetic with them, comfort them, that kind of thing, that's harder. It will probably be crafted by the latter, but I'm sure it's also an absolute goal because without... having robot form, human form, it's because they want it to easily fit into our existing physical capabilities so that we can't make it a new one. type of hammer, because the hammer has a handle and a head, and is that big and that shape because it is suitable for the task at hand.

So if the robot is like a human hand, it can handle a hammer, an ax or a welder. It's kind of along the same lines that if you don't interact with it the same way you interact with a human being, then you can say to a worker at that moment: "Józsi, man, put down the coffee machine." and go there and take the ax and chop the firewood." If it's more complicated to explain this to the robot, then the robot's understanding is actually relatively limited. It can mix well if you don't have to program it, but you can tell it to stop mixing white and black, my sweet Optimus, because everything is going to be gray.

And if you understand that, then from that moment on you have a chance of being bought - And how seriously, for example, can you take it. Musk's opinion that, over time, his company will be able to make more money selling robots than from Tesla sales? - This is certainly the case with how many people live on Earth. Let's say 8 billion. 8 billion people in the world, including Elon Musk himself, occasionally do something they don't feel like doing, and it doesn't necessarily require super-intellectual skills. It will begin by gradually displacing human beings, mainly through easily replaceable physical labor.

So it's obvious that it's going to be bad for low-skilled, low-income, low-skilled people in the first place, which is nothing new, it's not Tesla's fault, it's always been that way in the history of the world. Since the industrial revolution, it has always been the case that it is basically industrial development and in this case electronic development will hurt the physical worker in the first round. - At least that's what his critics accuse him of, when I read that half the world is fighting to save and preserve jobs with decent wages, and then some asked what the point is in producing machines, or robots, that are destroying jobs, although undoubtedly more efficient than humans?

Won't this create new tensions and new conflicts in an already overloaded world? - It's been that way since the air brakes and the steam engine and the loom, there's nothing new about it. So what's happening here is that we might be one of the generations, if this is really going to be something, that will have this kind of very intense change in front of them, but we won't be the first generation. And the truth is that what these changes have had in common so far, if we go back to the steam engine, is that in all of them there have always been serious victims, hundreds of thousands or millions of people whose livelihoods have been threatened. or even they broke up for a while, for a more or less long period, and that as a result they have been left personally very bad.

But on a human level, we have been better with all these things. So a reasonable person would not think that one was better off or happier before the steam engine. You really weren't happier before the steam engine, before industrial robots, before something like that. It doesn't take away creative work, it doesn't take away work that people do because they love it, it takes away work that's easy to replace because you can take away work because it's easy to do and because it's easy to replace, it wasn't well paid anyway. , because there was always someone who had worse luck and did it for two cents less.

So, in effect, it is starting to displace people from these jobs who are already easily replaceable. Musk himself, by the way, going back to his own personality a little bit, he personally is a big supporter of UBI, which is basic income, unconditional basic income, so he says that in parallel with that, and it's an idea very It is a complicated and very complex question, and there is no simple answer: that as technological advances begin to take away the livelihoods of certain types of people, this happens because it is more efficient, it is cheaper because, otherwise, You wouldn't be replaced.

So if we know it's cheaper to do it, that means money is saved and it's saved for someone who used the robot, then this money should be used to make sure those people aren't worse off. Be transformed, live a different kind of life, ideally a fuller life, and through this, in fact, at the level of humanity, help everyone progress not for the worse but for the better. - Having said that, is it possible to calculate now what is cheaper at current prices? Traditional human work or putting a humanoid robot to work? - We can resolve this at the table if we say to stick with the price of 8 million HUF, but let's be generous and round it to 12 because it is a multiplication of one and a half. - That's how much this robot will cost. - Let's say it will cost 12 million forints.

That means that if you could only use it for a year and then it broke down, it would cost you a million forints a month. This means that if you want to replace a worker who costs you more than a million forints a month, it is worth it. So at this point, the math doesn't seem to work out. If you can use it not for one year, but for ten years, it will instantly be reduced to one tenth. If you count the number of shifts the robot can work and the number of shifts the worker can work, suddenly, suddenly a multiplier of three has been added to the system.

When you count how often workers quit because they get sick, leave, or die, and how much it costs you to train the next worker, you save again with the robot. If you count how much loss the worker causes by making mistakes, which we know is human but the robot is not, by being unmotivated but the robot is not, by being in love but the robot is not, by accidentally cutting off a finger but the robot is not. And this list could go on indefinitely, but it would show that the order of ten million euros does not really start to make sense when a worker is paid a million forints, but is in fact absolute even at the lowest salary. - Watching the video report of this presentation, your enthusiasm is still evident and was also evident there.

You somehow put it at the end of your video as a momentous step that will make the world a better place. You obviously meant it. Does it really make the world a better place? - What excites me so much is that I think everything is wonderfully interesting. Everything, from a distance and up close, from its physical functioning and the engineering challenges and difficulties to the logical part and the more macro part, then, what it is doing to our Earth, to our economy, to people in general psychologically, etc. Every episode you see is very interesting and that's what excites me and I'm very happy about that.

Whether, in concrete terms, the destiny of humanity changes for better or worse thanks to the advance of robotics will depend entirely on the direction in which the people who promote it take this process. That includes making it much better for everyone and also making it the biggest hell imaginable for human beings in the short time we have left. - Okay, let's pause the discussion for no more than 20 seconds. Our sponsors highlight their presence on our Podcast, then we continue the conversation about Elon Musk. We continue with Gábor Bazsó. He has long been considered a car-obsessive writer.

Certainly, I suppose Musk's electric car has a special place in your life. This has already been mentioned to some extent. As a petrol car lover, this often came up when I saw or heard you, for example, how did you welcome this electric car revolution? - Well, ambivalently, obviously, for all the reasons that normally make you not feel clear pleasure when you see something happen that is supposed to be good, but that is also the end of something very nice. The gasoline car, because of the way it works, because of the basic principle of burning things in it, is just more vivid, it's, you know, it's more physical, it's more real.

He has a voice, he has a smell. On the one hand. On the other hand, it is to understand well how it works, you are not a car enthusiast, so I understand it. - For notsay it softly. - Not to put it mildly. - Get me from point A to point B. I was waiting for this particular self-driving car to take me there, that's enough for me. I wouldn't trust him with any complicated operations. - Not next year, but it will take you. - Can it still fit into my life? - Can. In my case, I've also spent most of my life tinkering with the development of my own cars of this type, learning about them or trying to create educational content about them.

And that means that if there's a big change of the kind that makes these things fundamentally different in structure and operating principle, it means that those hundreds, many thousands of hours, if you will, get flushed down the toilet. - So now you must be depressed seeing the electric car revolution. - And there are many, many, many people, in fact in my environment there is an overwhelming majority of people who are hostile and depressed because of it. Partly because their knowledge is being devalued, or because they fear that their knowledge will be devalued. Partly because they suspect that the new thing coming will be somehow worse.

Because people tend to distrust new things. I'm different, I'm different because I love cars and part of that, by the way, is very hard work. I started to understand it. But the car doesn't just have an engine, the car has many, many components outside the engine, which can be understood: ideally, you don't put power into it because you have to. I didn't do it because I had to, but because I was interested and it was fun. - Having said that, are you saying that the electric car interests you at least as much - its understanding, the principle of its operation - with the same passion as its predecessor? - Exactly, it's just as interesting, just as fun, in fact, in some ways its physics is even a little more magical, so it's a little more primitive than the internal combustion engine and how it works, and basic physics. how the electric motor works.

Things don't even fit together and then they do. Oh how interesting. There is more magic in the electric car. - Do you have one, for example? - Yes too. But in trucking, if I had an infinite amount of money, I would only have electric ones. - Because? - Because it is incomparably a much better, fairer and better solution than the internal combustion engine. For pleasure, sports and cultural artifacts like that, internal combustion is much better, but for getting around in the world we live in, electric is much better. - However, returning to Musk, could you briefly say what you like?

I'll go further, what do you respect about him? - I'm not enthusiastic about Musk. I'm very interested in the processes this guy is inducing. But I don't think he is a holy man, quite the opposite, which is why Musk has very clear, very well-documented and very serious character defects, if you will. All types of nature. The way he has managed his private life, in many cases, does not seem good. There are so many reports, so many reports, that I am inclined to believe that it is probably true, that in many cases he is being mean to opponents or former employees or staff of his.

That is why he speaks unworthily, he does not make any gesture of having won something, but simply denigrates those who he believes deserve it. Perhaps the last thing that caused him the biggest scandal, even before the whole Twitter purchase story began, was his statement about the conflict in Ukraine, where he tweeted that he thought that, if we simplify it, I don't want to quote him literally, no. It could, but the point is that if we don't want a third world war, then the right direction is not to force the Russians into a complete and humiliating defeat and 100 percent withdrawal, because they won't. settle for that, so we should come to some kind of mini-compromise that at least gives them some kind of, say, Crimea or part of Crimea so that they have something to say at home, that allows them to stop this and they don't need to continue indefinitely or intensify. - It is such a wrong idea, I did not appreciate it any more than a man who is not politically professional in any way meddles in the affairs of the great and, since he has enough money and influence in the world, he has, therefore, the right to give Your opinion.

But they are easily removed from the table. - I've been following Musk for a long time, and I think he's not necessarily trying to intervene in the world right now, but he's trying to intervene on a daily basis, which is something special because he works about 20 hours a day and tweets when has time. Between meetings, or when he travels, or when he goes to the bathroom and things come to mind that he's thinking about. He is thinking about this Ukraine issue, just like you and I and everyone else. He feels that he has a good side and a bad side, which he believes he can help by helping what he considers the good side.

Because it has invested an enormous amount of money in this, and it has invested concrete things, Ukraine has essentially maintained its combat and communications capabilities because it has given it many, many assets, through Starlink and SpaceX, which we will talk about separately. . So he's there to see how he actually took a stance at the action level. Also, when he tweets this, he is not a puppet of Putin trying to play in favor of the Russians, because you can't do that when the Russians are partly in a bad situation, because Ukraine is not collapsing, because they can coordinate the country and the army through the Starlink he has given them.

He doesn't want to be anyone's puppet. He thinks about things and what he thinks about them he writes without inhibitions. And the unscrupulous description would link her to her real or perceived Asperger's. If that is what he honestly thinks about the situation, and he thinks it because he believes it is important and that is what it is, it is right for him to write it without any prevarication, without considering the possible consequences, but even if he did consider it. them, he wouldn't have it any other way, because he's saying what he thinks. -Musk must be the type of man who has a lot of money, and whoever has a lot of money, sooner or later he thinks that his brain has become too small.

This may be a very simplified version of who he is, but he believes that he is entitled to everything and, in this way, he can afford to let the world know his otherwise immature thoughts about this and that. But returning to Musk as an innovator, from a distance, sometimes he seems to me like he was created by 19th century fiction writers like Jules Verne and the inventors who followed him, and at other times he is like a brilliant CEO. communicative sales that has excellent timing to recognize the demand that is being created. One way or another, we obviously agree that he is a great visionary and up-and-comer.

Can you give us a quick assessment of the ratio between Elon Musk's projects that have been promised and delivered and those that have been canceled or not yet delivered? -His real step towards electric cars was to become an investor and, eventually, the majority owner of a micro-business that was developing a small electric sports car, an expensive sports car. He later became Tesla. What happened was that there was a small startup with a prototype that wasn't ready to go to market, and he carried out the entire process, partly with his own money and partly with his management skills, to come up with a product. that people could buy. that people could understand, that they would be manufactured, that they would have a factory where they would make about a hundred of them in the first round, and then about a thousand after that. - Electric cars. - That was the Tesla Roadster, the two-seater convertible sports car, and in parallel he wrote a document called, he called it Masterplan, a 'master plan', which said that for electric cars to really take off and really improve the lives of humanity through of electric cars, the next path had to be taken.

Since no one is making one at the moment, a good and really desirable one, one has to be made, which is necessarily very expensive, because mass production makes cars cheap. It is not something that can be mass produced, because there is nothing to do, it has to be done. So at first it will be very expensive. The Tesla Roadster, which already existed at the time, was the first step. The second step is to make a still very expensive electric car that anyone who can afford it will buy because it is better than others. It's not because I want to be more environmentally conscious, which is why, say, Hollywood stars were buying Toyota Priuses in the same period, because they wanted to show how environmentally conscious they were, but that's not why you buy a Tesla Model S. is because it is quieter, faster, more comfortable and does things no other can do.

Once they have it, the money they make from it can go towards creating a cheaper, mass-produced car, one that can be scaled down through mass production to a level where not just a few can afford it. tens or hundreds of thousands. of people, but by millions, which is what the Tesla Model 3 is, so if they get to the point where they produce millions a year, that means it is a viable model; otherwise, they wouldn't get there. If the model is viable among conventional gasoline cars, it means that you can make at least as much money as with gasoline cars, so everyone is obliged to do it, not because they admit it, not because they want to do good to the planet. , not because they want to, not because they suddenly realize that they should stop blowing smoke into people's noses and producing carbon dioxide, but because if money comes out of it, then everyone has to switch to it, and Through that, they can actually manipulate the entire market.

So with Tesla, to make a massive, competitive, autonomous, profitable electric car that can be produced by the millions, they have achieved it. With SpaceX, it's... - SpaceX is the space program. - That's your aerospace company. SpaceX is currently, without exaggeration, the largest power in the world's space industry. We are used to the space power being a country, say the United States or the Soviet Union in the old days. And by comparison, SpaceX currently represents about two-thirds of the global space industry. Musk carrying out his own personal and determined stupidity, if you will, made people laugh out loud that a rocket is not something that is fired once and then burns up in the atmosphere and is over, but a rocket It's something that goes away. and can come back. - He leaves and comes back.

Being able to return is actually a development of his team. - And he did not invent how he will return. He is the man who said that he had thought this through carefully and that it makes no sense, in the long term, otherwise, so that the planes would not have spread, that if they scrapped all the Boeing 747s after one flight, they would not fly to The United States would cost 300,000 florins, it would cost 300 million. And the same goes for the car, if you used it for a road and then it broke down, no one would drive a car, and you should be able to do that, and he thinks it is possible, and he has done it. , and now it seems that he is right, and the whole world is following him very slowly, with very heavy steps, but that's how it is.

These are the great success stories, if you will, that have already...already been recognized by all the dominant players that he was right. So it's no longer up for discussion, every major company from Ford to Volkswagen has now recognized the merits of Tesla, the importance of Tesla and that they are on the right path, now everyone is trying to rush in one direction more or less similar. The same goes for SpaceX. Also, it's known as a big project within Tesla, let's say, autonomous driving, to take a slice off the top, which is a slightly different topic because they've done volume production, but autonomous driving has been delayed for many years. and there are many indications that they may be closer than others in many ways, but it is not ready.

It has launched a switch or interface called Neuralink, which is capable of making the connection between computers and humans much faster than the way we write with our two little fingers, and would be of unimaginable importance to humanity if ever maybe it would become something. but it probably won't be for a long time, and in the meantime it may have enormous importance for medicine. Let's say people who currently can't move their limbs because they have some kind of neurological injury, this device could also help a lot to overcome that. - Where is he in this regard? - It's not clear exactly where you are in that sense, because once a year they have a kind of "here we are now" about it, which some in the profession laugh at and think is lame or fake or not at all serious, and Some say it's pretty interesting, but those who didn't think they could start it yesterday, but have been working in the field for 15 years, are actually here.

And unfortunately, in every industry Musk has disrupted, it has always been exactly the same as the letter. First they don't take him seriously, then they laugh at him, and then they explain why it's impossible. And then they say from above that they don't want someone to come along who, because he has made a few hundred million in his life, will know how to make a rocket better than NASA, which did have a space program and brought a man to the moon and all that. . In the end he will turn out okay, but overall he knew better.

InAt that time, there was talk of Hyperloop, which he didn't get involved in as a business, but it was an idea that if we made a tunnel system or an above-ground pipe system that didn't have air in it because we sucked it in, then without air resistance, trains could travel very quickly on it, and through that, we could have cheaper and simpler rapid transportation than airplanes, and if other companies think about it, they can develop the practice. - Why did this stop? - This didn't stop; These are things that have been going on for many years and are being developed now. - If, say, in 100 years, in a similar or different podcast, people talk about what the century is or what the technological achievements of the century are, do you think Musk's achievements will be comparable to the 20th century with such?

Innovators like Edison, or the Wright brothers, or Henry Ford, or Tesla, the eponym of Musk's cars? - I'm pretty sure it will be. And one of the best examples is Edison. Edison is often disparaged in the history of science because he is said to have been less an inventor with instinctive genius and more an industrialist who, like other inventors, implemented the work of other inventors. and then to mass production. And Musk is outstanding at that. So the secret to his success is not just that he's suddenly magically very good at everything and very insightful. He can see many things very well, most of them better than others.

He certainly isn't right about everything. It does an unprecedented job of how to translate things into a very large-scale practical implementation, which requires the kind of... certain engineering qualities that you need for the technical part, but you probably need human and management qualities first to Find people who want to work. For him, they believe in the same thing, in the same project, in the same company, in the same product, and are willing to work with him 20 or 30 hours a day to make it happen. -How come you never joined his team or didn't even try? - What my knowledge could really be applied to is what I seem to be relatively good at, or at least have made a living for several years, at learning things, understanding them, and telling them or turning them into the kind of Content that some people find interesting. like.

I'm a translator if you want, so to speak. In many cases, Musk would need someone... - A translator. -... to explain to him what he wants. - Okay, but how come you didn't join, at least in theory? - Honestly, I don't know what I could give him. Part of this (we didn't mention it at all) is that the controversial perception of him comes largely from the fact that he doesn't communicate, so he doesn't have marketing experts or PR people to explain his nonsense. . - He's the one who's doing it. -But when he has time, he will tweet the half-sentence that is his opinion on the matter at hand, and then he will take the brunt and accept that a very large and dominant proportion of humanity thinks he is an idiot. .

And he says, well, yes, yes, yes, but on the one hand, I'm a bit of an idiot hahaha because that's his character, and on the other hand, he also says, what I do, the results of what Yes, it's relatively difficult to deny because it is visible. - In your opinion, Musk (and then this is a general question) is really using his problem-solving sensitivity to potentially address humanity's most pressing problems, or his creative and quite efficient mind, or he is wasting it on brilliant and wishful thinking. easily marketable. -Compliance or illusion? - This is clearly the first.

You don't have to believe it, you just have to look at the boy. His own desires, his own secular desires, besides wanting to have a baby for every woman, that's all he has. So he doesn't have expensive real estate, yachts, I don't know what, he doesn't have anything, because he's not interested in them. We say that he is the richest man in the world, but in practice, that means that he has created a company, his company is very successful, he owns part of his company, because he created it, and the company is listed in the bag. stock market, and the stock market value of the company is very high, so the shares he owns are worth a lot, and that is why we can say that he is the richest man in the world, but in the sense that Abramovich has a yacht, or Lőrinc Mészáros has a yacht, or I don't know what, whatever, he doesn't live the life of a rich man.

However, the things it does do not at all fall into the category of easy wish fulfillment, which is why no one starts making an electric car when all the big car companies in the world say it is impossible because it is easy, or making rockets that You can land because it's easy, when everyone at NASA, Roskosmos and China says it's stupid. These are all difficult things. These are all terribly difficult things that can have a very big impact on the world for various reasons and by the way, the acquisition of Twitter is in the same category, I think you are very wrong on many points and you are really underestimating the problem. and he's taking it in the wrong place, and the first things he does point in the direction that he doesn't really understand and could have a lot of problems with this.

And Twitter is going to have big problems. However! And that's a big one, though. In that sense, I'm like the President of General Motors or the President of Toyota 10 years ago, or the President of NASA 10 years ago, in that I think I know what I'm doing, and the fact is that in at least two Or in three cases it turned out that I was not right, or they were not right, but he was. And this may be one of the things he will eventually be right about. - About Twitter. - I don't know, I don't see how, and at the moment I see more problems than good, but it's pretty good... looking back, it has turned out to be a pretty good percentage that he is right after all.

We've called genius to all kinds of people and I'm sure Musk fits those definitions. He not a god, but a genius. Yes, with all kinds of character defects, like all of us. - Okay, it was a pleasure to meet you after all these years and see you so passionate about this that on television I don't think there is any topic you'd rather talk about more than Elon Musk right now, at least as far as his public interest. - I'm not going to argue that, but there are a few more things, that's just how I like to talk. - And I like to introduce this type of passionate people because I naively trust that sooner or later they will stay.

Anyone can understand this however they want. Thank you so much. - Thanks to you too. - You can subscribe to our channel on YouTube, Facebook or both. Thank you very much if you do this. And it's great for us, the creators of the Podcast, if you express your gratitude on YouTube, for example, but Patreon is also an option. Needless to say, we're not done for today, because here's another example from the Green and Green series, but first we need to consider some recommendations from our sponsors. - The current one is the 17th. It will be a report about people who take the so-called sustainable development seriously, because they are convinced that protecting the Earth, nature and our environment is not only the task of politicians, but also of each individual , including themselves.

Here you have another episode of the Kata Vincze series. I am Fatima Németh-Hindi, mother, host of the YouTube channels Yama Kitchen and 'fatimapanka', and author of the Yama Kitchen recipe book. I have been making videos since 2016 when I was neither vegetarian nor vegan, but it was a later change in my life. It was mainly for health reasons, and then as we researched, the environmental perspective of veganism beyond food became more and more a part of our lives, and I found in my husband the person I could adapt to, and maybe he adapted to us. And he brought veganism into my life.

It can also work in a way that the man comes up with this first, because he was the one who said, well, let's eat less meat, let's try to have meatless days. The Yama Kitchen channel is all about meatless recipes. The important thing is to have a balanced mix of ingredients for each recipe. I try to be very careful with that as well, to make sure that it has the right amount of protein so that it's not objectionable, because that's what most people fear with a plant-based diet, that it doesn't have enough protein. But, for example, soy, different legumes, some types of cereals are very, very good sources of protein, or I have discovered, for example, the fantastic effect that oats have on digestion, how it can help organize it and nourish it.

This fall season is all about heating food, that's why I'm going to show you a pumpkin porridge that is very easy to make, but that I think is not only healthy and attractive but also very, very delicious. So I have made pumpkin puree, fine grain oats, a little maple syrup, oat milk and I am going to cook them together and on top I will put a little fig, hemp seeds, cinnamon, dates and a little banana . The first step is to pour the oat milk into a saucepan, add the oats, pumpkin puree and maple syrup, and cook it well, it will be very creamy, with a little swelling of the oats in the milk.

This should take about 5-8 minutes to cook through and cook through. And it is important to stir it all the time. If you see that it is very bubbly or has bubbles on top, lower the heat a little. For this recipe, which I think is enough for two people, I used about 10 tablespoons of oats and 3-4 liters of oat milk. By the way, you can also use oat milk by mixing half and half with water and I added maple syrup approx. 3-4 tablespoons and you decide what and how much you want to put on top. It can improve our quality of life if we not only pay attention to what we eat, but also how we eat it, and that ranges from the look of that plate of food to the environment and state of mind in which we sit down to eat.

Eat it. That's where a little bit of awareness that we actually have in our minds and that focuses on our state of mind comes into play. One of the most important parts of the environmentally conscious segment of our business is that we offer environmentally conscious food to the restaurant industry. alternatives to packaging, and that's why we sell serving utensils made from palm leaf, sugar cane, paper, cornstarch, for example, and these are made in real industrial composters, but they decompose very quickly and are much, much softer than use plastic ones, of course. And the fatimapanka channel is a much more personal platform, where my personal life is emphasized, for example, clothing, cosmetics and makeup.

I try to use only cruelty-free cosmetics, for example, I also try to communicate how important it is to go out and admire nature. In our country, how much we take advantage of the four seasons for different activities and how much more harmoniously we can live a life a little more connected with nature. There is a very important role for all kinds of issues related to femininity and all branches of motherhood, and I use, for example, menstrual panties, which have worked very, very well for me. By the way, there are many types of menstrual underwear and products that adapt to this lifestyle.

For me, some are still scary and I haven't dared to follow them yet, but I really believe that everyone can find an alternative to disposable and more sustainable. It was also very important for me, after having my children, to try to stay conscious in this area of ​​my life, to stay conscious of the environment. For example, we were washing diapers for months, but after a while I had to admit that there are times when a sustainable solution in your own life is not. But I still encourage all moms to try it, because it is a fantastic opportunity.

The topic of children's meals also raised several questions, and here again we had to take a step back and look at the bigger picture of what is best for our family and the children, and that is why we finally decided to introduce organic foods. animal in their meals because Anyway, that was just my intuition, and that's how we felt most comfortable, and it's very important that, despite that, I think we were driven by the greatest feeling of goodness and the greatest desire to do something, and everyone must think about their own lives in that way, be sustainable, dare to try new things but not impose anything on themselves.

I am Fatima Németh-Hindi and I discovered that the path to a lifestyle change is not easy. And whether it's meatless, environmentally conscious, or zero waste, sometimes it's important to take off the blinders and allow ourselves to stray from the path, to listen to voices other than our own, because that's how we can take in the most information and the most perspectives. and reflect on it, so that in the end we can really create a lifestyle for ourselves that is as sustainable as possible and that we can live the happiest life possible. We saw that too and it was interesting.

Finally, I would like to draw your attention to the 130+ episodes of my previous TV series, which can be seen on YouTube and Facebook, and which you will be able to explore next week, when we will not be posting a new conversation, but if you want to see one beautiful and touching story until, say, our next report, I can offer you at least 8 to 10 episodes of my My Cinema series, because they are already available to watch. Or if you want to know more about science, I have more than one conversation with the brilliant theoretical physicist BélaLukács, the researcher of the original thought network László Albert Barabási, or the very young biomedical engineer Tamás Haidegger, who talks about robotic surgery in a fascinating way. shape.

But those who yearn for life and literature can immerse themselves in the thoughts of László Krasznahorkai, or Péter Esterházy, whom they have greatly missed for six years, or György Spiró. And for those who are interested in theater and the worldview of actors and directors, I recommend my interview with Zsuzsa Lehoczky, Leho, as she was known in the theater environment, retired from public performances last year. I can also recommend the great actor and singer Béla Paudits, who died four years ago, as well as my previous conversations with Lili Monori, Irén Psota, Sándor Zsótér or Mari Törőcsik, Péter Haumann, Dorottya Udvaros, Iván Darvas, Dezső.

Garas. And, of course, those interested in strange destinations and unusual characters will also find the exciting adventure of the great train robber Ronald Biggs told in person, but our conversation with O.J Simpson, accused of the murder of his wife. and his lover about the details of his case, or the story of György Zemplényi, the swimming director who deceived half the world. And, of course, if you want pure laughter and entertainment, in the next two weeks you will be able to see the Álinterjúk (Fake Interviews) hoax series, of which we have already posted at least twelve, and there are still a few more to come, and we will publish them in the future, as well as half a dozen entertaining reflections by children, explanations of concepts, the Gyerekszáj (Children's Mouths).

And if you've had enough nostalgia, I'll be back with another new Podcast in two weeks, on December 15th, when I'll have to make an unusual announcement. For the moment I won't say with whom or about what. Meanwhile, speculate, reflect and try to endure these not-so-easy-to-bear weekdays. Bye bye! Until next time!