The 5 Foods You SHOULD NOT Eat To Prevent Disease & LIVE LONGER | Max Lugavere

Max, thank you so much for taking the time during your short trip to London to be here with me today. I want to start right away. Let's talk about five

foods

that people

should

avoid if they are interested in increasing longevity and overall health benefits. Yes, I love the question. So it's a great place to start. I think on the one hand, refined grain products, I don't really have anything against whole grains, as long as you can tolerate them. To be honest, I don't think they are the most nutrient-dense food. I think grains in general are a glorious

live

stock feed, and I think they can be added functionally to provide starch, which if you're an athlete, if you exercise regularly, I think they can really play a very useful role and provide an additive value.

Like me, for example, I spent a lot of time in the gym. Whether it looks like it or not, that's a different story. But you definitely look like, Oh yeah, up close and personal. I think you're a pretty skinny guy, but I actually met you in person today. You are very strong. I have been working in sports for 20 years. But no, I've been experimenting with pre-workout carbs and it's been, you know, as a source of glycogen, you know, and glucose, which helps you endure high-intensity anaerobic exercise. And I've been enjoying pre-workout oatmeal quite a bit. Good.

And, you know, that's something I probably wouldn't have accepted five years ago because I was like, you know, convinced that the cereals there had more risks than benefits. But for certain populations I think there are benefits. Yes, but it's the refined grains, you know, it's the refined grains that, you know, the consumption rate is very high, very easy to digest. They're not good for your teeth either, you know? And I think that's very revealing. I believe that what is good for the teeth in general can be good for the body. And conversely, what is bad for the teeth, because a toothless animal in nature quickly turns into a dead animal.

So I feel like what's good for the mouth and the oral microbiome is a good kind of barometer for systemic health, you know, whether or not something is going to be good for systemic health. And lo and behold, these products, refined grain products, tend to have a very high glycemic index, they provide very high glycemic loads because, you know, I mean, they're primarily carbohydrates and they're typically very calorie dense. . and tend to typify snacks, which now account for 20 to 25% of similar calories consumed. Good. They come from snacks, usually wheat-based snacks and the like. So I'm not a fan.

And they also tend to be harbingers of other additives that typically aren't as good as added sugar and the like. So I think refined grain products are generally one of them. Yes I know. I absolutely agree with that. I think the more we learn about the mouth and teeth as a gateway to health, it's fantastic. And I think dentistry has really been appreciated in the, the same kind of conversation about nutrition and there are some amazing dentists here in the UK, one of which is Dr Victoria Samson. She has a functional dentistry clinic and she's using an incredible oral microbiome to determine a person's health because I think you're right, an animal in the wild without teeth, there's not going to be a very efficient animal and it's not going to be around for long.

And, you know, for us, without more dentistry, it would have been pretty bad before too. So the type of

foods

we

should

be inclined to eat are those that will obviously also be good for our teeth. And I think refined grains are something that we definitely have in abundance and in supermarkets. I think even whole grains don't agree with people, especially since many of us don't experiment with sea gems. We notice the stimulating effects of certain grains, including oats. Hmm. I love oats. I love oats. I'll take it like, you know, before training or, you know, the next morning.

But actually, for many people, oatmeal isn't a big deal. And that's why I always tend to tell people, you know, eat oatmeal, but be careful with the dosage, meaning how much you're going to consume, and add other pieces, whether it's hemp seeds or pumpkin seeds. or sunflower seeds as a fiber asymmetry mix or nuts, because that could mitigate the effect of the glucose spike you might experience. AS Yes, I never eat naked oats. I like it, I mix it. I've been obsessed with casein protein, so I mix in some casein protein. But yes, we are all different.

Like our mutual friend Tim Spector, right? Dr. Tim Spector. He's not a fan of oatmeal. Presumably. He came, you know, he was on my show and he talked about the fact that, you know, he was eating a lot of oatmeal and then, you know, he put on a CGM and realized that it raised his blood sugar. through the roof. So I think grains are a spectrum and yes, whole grains provide some insoluble fiber that can help with digestive health in some people. But I tend to believe that healthy dietary patterns that, you know, are often attributed to the inclusion of whole grains, are healthy despite the grains, the presence of grains, not necessarily because of them.

And an example that I usually use because a lot of our nutritional recommendations come from epidemiology, right? Like looking at population level studies in a world or era where 60% of the calories the average person consumes come from ultra-processed and highly refined food products. Anyone who eats mostly whole grains has a big healthy user bias. There's my perspective and this is very easily illustrated with a little thought experiment that I love and that I love to offer. It's like you go away from the population level and take all the people who eat quinoa regularly, right? I bet you that your health is much better than that of the average person, and very right.

On the one hand, if you know how to pronounce quinoa, it's a sign that you're following the doctors' way of cooking. Oh yeah. Yes. Knock you out right here. If you agree, it says a lot about your socioeconomic level, right. If you can, access quinoa regularly. So there are a lot of similar variables that I think are confusing when it comes to these types of studies. And I think that's where you see a lot of benefits when it comes to grains. But I don't necessarily know that that's an essential part of an optimized diet. Yeah, no, I think I personally like to have whole grains in my diet.

I think it all comes down to dosage. So for me, a single serving is probably no more than 50 or 60 grains, which if you think about it, is pretty small. Yes, it's dominated by other things, whether it's fiber or colorful plant proteins, everything else. So when I create recipes, I tend to have a little bit of that, but not a lot. And I think you're right: healthy use of bias, particularly in epidemiological studies, will definitely lead to confusion. When I look at the nutritional profile of maybe some other whole grains, whether it's barley or sugar and brown rice.

Do you still have the same concerns about it compared to refined grains, which they just think are a little bit better on the spectrum? I think they are better and I think they can be enjoyed. And, you know, that has value. Obviously, I don't think they are toxic or anything that is sometimes described on social media. Yes, yes, yes, certainly not. I just don't think they are the highest quality foods relative to other options that might be available to us. It's good, awesome. I don't think they are necessarily better than dark leafy greens and cruciferous vegetables.

I don't think they are, you know, if you look at the bill table lists, a nutrition researcher whose work I follow published a bunch of studies, I think he even collaborated on some papers. with Gardner. Oh, I got you. Yes. Who you referenced in my podcast. He did. He published an article in which he evaluated the nutrient density of commonly available foods. Cereals were No, we're not even in the top 12. It was dark leafy greens, a lot of dairy, a lot of animal products and things like that. Again, I don't want to demonize them. I just don't think they're there, you know, the best option relative to other, you know, other options that are typically available.

Understood. It's good, awesome. Let's go for another one. Yes. So added sugar. I think added sugar is a big problem. Foods with a little added sugar here and there I don't think are a big problem. But lo and behold, if you look at population-level statistics, the average person consumes 77 grams of added sugar every day. That's if you just want to visualize that. That's almost 20 teaspoons of pure sugar for which we have no biological requirement. Empty calories provide no satiety benefit. And I think one of the biggest current problems with added sugar is its insidious nature. It's just everywhere.

You know, if your favorite food has added sugar, that's okay. But the problem is that added sugar is now found in commercial bread products, in sauces, in any number of foods where you wouldn't expect added sugar. Food manufacturers love to pump these shelf-stable products now with added sugar because it makes them tastier. Mmmmm. And yes, again, empty calories do not provide any satiety benefits. We don't have satiety checkpoints to indicate when we've had enough added sugar and yes, and you know that high added glycemic index diets are associated with an increased risk of type two diabetes, cardiovascular

disease

and dementia, obviously more high. know the risk of obesity and the like.

And they've done a number of studies where this doesn't fully reflect real-world circumstances. But, you know, they'll use oral glucose tolerance tests to see what high boluses of sugar do to someone. For example, blood pressure. And you'll see that a sugar high, a single sugar high, can actually raise systolic blood pressure in a way that is sustained for 4 hours afterwards. Now, again, these are not necessarily reflective, since we are talking about pure glucose in a single 75 gram bolus. But, you know, unless there's a threshold effect like what the average person consumes daily in terms of sucrose.

So yeah, I think there's definitely something that needs to be minimized. Definitely. And you know, these refined carbs and sugar tend to go together as well. You know, you tend to find a particular snack or breakfast bar that has refined grains. And now I also have sugar and binder, plus all these other additives. So I think the two are a combination that can be pretty horrible. And the other thing, just to emphasize your point about having this excessive amount of sugar, I think the WHO has an upper limit of 24 grams of added sugar per day. And that's why most people, when they eat breakfast, they exceed the 24-hour upper limit of added sugar, you know, before they walk out the door.

And then what happens, and I see this a lot with patients, we hear it too, is that you have a glucose spike and then you have the corresponding crush. And at ten or eleven in the morning, you'll be having a coffee, a cookie or something to get you going again. You know, so you're having these kinds of constant glucose excursions and corresponding crushes all day long. And that obviously leads to an unhealthy pattern where you're also constantly snacking. Yes. So the number three food to avoid is skipping added sugar, and that's sugar-sweetened beverages, which I think are among the worst foods you can consume.

Yeah, I think that, you know, having a little bit of added sugar here and they're okay if you enjoy, you know, a cupcake every once in a while, great. But when it comes to foods that I like and that I really think most people should do their best to eliminate, I think it's sugar-sweetened beverages. Yes. Huge, big problem also in the United States and Mexico. I've heard it too. Right where they have tons of sugar-sweetened drinks and they've done some really interesting studies looking at teenagers, I think, who have more than three or four cans of colored sugar-sweetened drinks or whatever.

Yes. The impact on

live

r fat. Yes. Yes. I mean, it's absorbed so quickly, it's something that's so physiologically foreign from the standpoint of how sugar would have typically appeared in fruits or in foods for the vast majority of our evolution. I mean sugar, you know, for a hunter-gatherer, the only place you would find sugar would be in ripe fruit, which would happen once a year during the summer. And it would bounce off the food matrix, right? With fiber, with water, it would be absorbed very slowly due to all those characteristics. And and yes. And our operating systems have essentially been set up to, you know, convert that excess sugar into fat, you know, quite effectively.and then, you know, raising insulin, which protects our fat stores.

And that was a life-saving feature in the vast majority of our evolution. And today, unfortunately, it is summer 365 days a year due to the preponderance of added sugar. And I think there was a research estimate published in the journal Circulation, and it postulated that about 250,000 deaths annually worldwide can be attributed to sugary drinks alone. Oh, wow. Yes. Yes. Huge problem. That's huge. Yeah. I mean, as a research estimate it was like, you know, a correlational finding, it wasn't like, but it basically postulated what I think we all know to be true, which is that these types of foods are not doing our health any favors. .

Yeah. I mean, if you look at it from a chemical level as well, I mean a biological level, you know when you get these boluses of sugar, that main line to your liver and then it packs a sugar into your videos or it increases your triglyceride level. and increases the risk of insulin resistance and a list of the after effects of metabolic syndrome. And, you know, it has an impact on uric acid levels and that can raise blood pressure. So you can see all these downstream impacts. But what worries me is how well marketed it is, especially to children, and how ubiquitous it is in vending machines, not only in public spaces, but also in hospitals and one of my main pet peeves when I'm in a clinical environment to see a vending machine for sugary drinks.

It's like we shouldn't really promote this. Hmm. Yes. And it is as if it floods it, it creates energy, toxicity in the body because it is absorbed very quickly. I mean, it reaches the liver right at the top of the small intestine. It is absorbed. And, you know, we're just not prepared to be able to deal with that intense deluge of sugar. Good. And fructose in particular, which I recently had on my show Richard Johnson, who is a nephrologist, who, you know, I mean, has done a lot of work to demonstrate how excess fructose actually depletes the liver of ATP and contributes to resistance. to insulin, type two diabetes.

And he even published an article recently saying that, of course, this is like too much fructose, you know, a little bit here and there is no big deal, especially when it's contained in whole fruit. But I mean, he makes this hypothesis and he had a lot of supporting data to suggest that it's this same phenomenon that depletes the brain's energy and could possibly contribute to the ideology of conditions like Alzheimer's

disease

, which. Yes, what nobody wants. TRUMP Yes, yes, absolutely. Yes. Good, excellent. And a light segway towards the fruit. Are you someone who avoids fruits or particular types of fruits that you like or things that you would recommend?

And if. I love fruit. I love it, yes, I'm a big fan. I think it's probably beneficial to go for the lower sugar varieties, especially since, you know, our fruit has been improved. You obviously know this very well, but overall our fruit has been improved to be sweeter and bigger than ever and also to have less fiber and less of these bitter phytochemicals that support the gut microbiota. And I don't think there's a non-zero consequence of that. Which is, you know, probably insignificant in the context of the standard American diet, where there are so many bad things, you know, I think fruit is probably the best thing to eat in general.

I mean from the point of view of dietary carbohydrates. So yes, in general, I am a big fan of fruits. I love Honeycrisp apples. I love it, you know, I've also been experimenting and seeing a lot of benefits from consuming internal carbs during training. Yes, good. Like in the middle of this? Yes. In the middle of training. Yeah. Like the weirdo with a banana at the gym and. Yeah. And it's been, you know, it gives you kind of a mid-workout pick-me-up because it's, you know, I mean, you're getting a mix of fructose and glucose. Yes. Bananas represent approximately 50% of each.

So you're getting a fair, you know, decent amount of carbs to help fuel you through the rest of your workout, which you know, which has value. Absolutely. I mean, do you follow tennis? No. No. So tennis players always have a banana and like a potassium-rich drink by their side whenever they take a break. And we think a lot about tennis, you can play more than five, sometimes 6 hours, right? At least in the Grand Slams. And they always like to have a bite to eat, a banana, and then they take a sip of their drink and then they move on.

So, like the initial training with glucose and sugar, fructose, I think it's a good strategy, man. Yes, there is something in that. And of course the electrolytes as you mentioned. Yes Yes. Cassiem Yes, it's great. So I'm a big fan of fruit. What kind of training are you doing these days? So another Segway? Yes, I am a little. I love lifting weights. It's my, it's my thing. I'm not particularly strong or anything like that, but I love, yeah, I love lifting weights and I like the practice of lifting weights and getting better and stronger and I like perfecting form over time and learning about, you know, your anatomy and physiology and the mechanics of weight lifting.

I've always loved it and lately I've come to terms with the fact that, you know, I'm a bit of a gym pro in my heart, you know, which is something I never really do because I'm not. an athlete or something. But I love, I love the gym. I love it and I don't do much cardiovascular exercise, although I have slowly started doing it. I mean, I walk a lot and I've also been dabbling in a little more zone, because I feel like it's a more sustainable thing and doesn't really drain the energy of other exercises and exercise modalities.

It's pretty easy to do. So in two am I like a light? It's kind of like jogging faster than walking, you know, fast enough that you have to jog a little. But it's not like that, it's not working. Yes Yes. And I've seen huge benefits in my heart rate variability. Understood. I want to bookmark it because I want to ask you in a second about the benefits of exercise on the brain. But we'll stick with the things you shouldn't eat. Yes, nutrition, agility and disease

prevent

ion. So we have sugar, sugar, sugar. Yes. From what I've heard so far, what are the other two?

So this is definitely going to be a little more controversial, but I'm not a fan of industrially refined, bleached, and deodorized grain and seed oils. Okay, ultra-processed. So technically they aren't. For some reason, they are there and are not designated as ultra-processed. But I think it's a semantics argument. I think that, you know, one of the defining characteristics of an ultra-processed food is that they can't be prepared in the average kitchen. And I didn't know how to make soybean or corn oil and you know, like the oil in my kitchen. So I consider them ultra-processed foods.

And I don't think they are beneficial. And there are certainly better options, such as extra virgin olive oil, where there is much more evidence supporting its use as a primary oil in cooking. Yes. And I don't think that's controversial. I think most nutrition experts would agree that there is a lot of evidence for extra virgin olive oil. It is the distinctive oil of the Mediterranean dietary pattern. And that's generally the oil I use. It is rich in phytochemicals that meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials has shown in humans to have an anti-inflammatory effect. I love extra virgin olive oil, but I think there are still a lot of questions about consumption, chronic consumption of refined grains, refined lyes, and deodorizing seed oils, how they affect other tissues in the body, and so on. that, for example, our lipoproteins, which seem to be approved despite being novel foods because, compared to saturated fats, they lead to lower levels of LDL C and lower levels of APO B which, in theory, could reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease.

But we have no idea what they are doing long-term to the health of our brain, for example, or other tissues in the body. And again, this is a controversial statement, but there was an article published by Amir Taha, a food expert at UC Davis. Well. For H.A., you can search it on Google. Linoleic acid in the brain. Mmmmm. It's like, you know, the headline of the newspaper. And it raises a lot of these questions. And in the end, his conclusions, you know, come to the conclusion that this is not a benign fat for the brain.

And just to be clear, you know, just to be clear, to define linoleic acid, it's the predominant fat that's found in these types of oils like, you know, soybean oil, corn oil, whatever. And, you know, I don't think a little bit here and there is going to do any harm. But, you know, we're consuming three times more linoleic acid specifically than we did at the beginning of the last century. So, I mean, our intake of these fatty acids has skyrocketed and yes, in the last 50 to 100 years. And I think it's a public experiment that we. Yes.

I still don't know the consequences. Yeah. You know, I like to try to take the precautionary approach and I'm pretty pragmatic when it comes to new foods or novel substances that we have in our homes and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, something is relatively new. It's kind of like guilty until proven guilty. But there is a contrary belief that if it is neutral, then it should be fine and we should worry too much about it. And I think the other thing about these oils that I agree with is that they are extracted over high heat.

They can be chemically extracted and solvents can be used which can also have their own harms. But let's say you are using a regular seed oil. They also tend to be used in processed foods. So that would potentially confound the negative impacts if we grouped them with processed foods? Because they tend to use, yes, soybean oil, corn oil and sunflower oil in those types of foods. Good. Definitely. And thanks for mentioning that. Yes, I am. I think if you become obsessed with these oils, as some have done and as some advocate on social media, you are losing sight of the forest for the trees.

You are putting the cart before the horse. They are predominantly found in ultra-processed foods that are best avoided or minimized. That's why I think, ultimately, the problem is consuming ultra-processed foods. It's not necessarily the grain in the seed oils, but I think if you have agency in your home, again, the precautionary principle is like you alluded to, I think it's best to keep the oils out of, you know, the oils themselves out. from their home and instead opt for these fats that, you know, we know humans have been using for thousands of years, like we've been pressing olives, you know, in certain regions of the world for thousands of years.

You know, I'm much more comfortable using one of those oils on a regular basis than I am. They like the new oils that have advertisements for them on television. You know, that has extremely high margins. And I, you know, I mean, I think so. And it's funny, the strongest kind of argument that I've heard from some, you know, experts in the field like the pros of these oils is that when you have higher amounts of Ella or Lynell acid in your blood, it correlates with reducing disease. cardiovascular and reduce type two diabetes. So, you know, it's potentially beneficial.

But you know, I agree with you. In fact, I think I would avoid those oils and go for things that we really know more about and really have clear evidence, like what you were referring to regarding the anti-inflammatory effects of extra virgin olive oil. You know, it's comparable to that of an anti-inflammatory. Re So, some people who take a couple of tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil a day have the same pain-relieving effects as some of the anti-inflammatories that I can prescribe where you can buy them at a pharmacy. I think that alone is pretty impressive, but also purely from a flavor standpoint and its use in recipes.

I really don't like the mouthfeel of some of these oils like safflower, corn, and soy. I much prefer the kind of bitter, grassy notes of a good quality extra virgin olive oil or even avocado oil which has a buttery note, but is very expensive. Yeah, I mean, and I've learned from the seed oil advocates and the WADA data, and I've refined my message. And, you know, I admit that it's hard to find the evidence to be equivocal and it's hard to find evidence of an inflammatory effect, free of a pro-inflammatory effect. But I do think there are still many unknowns.

Yes. And yes, I mean, this topic was very interesting because he discovered that in mammals one of the potential problems is that they create what are called oxidized linoleic acid metabolites or ox lambs and he discovered that in mammals they responded quickly. , that the amount in brain tissue was very sensitive to the amount of linoleic acid in the diet we would like to titrate up linoleic acid and see them asThese oxidized products in the brain like a rocket. Oh, wow. And so, you know, I mean these are rats that have a two-year lifespan and who knows how that's affecting, you know, the human brain.

Yes, but yes, however, I mean, I think. You certainly don't see that with extra virgin olive oil, for example. Know. And so, you know, again, the precautionary principle. I tend to opt for that. Plus, you have the added benefit of flavor. Yes. And the fact that, you know, it is, it was generally very well accepted that this was an anti-inflammatory oil. I mean, the fact that they gave extra oils and the study was pretty bad is pretty telling. So yes. Yes. And most people who eliminate them will inadvertently reduce their consumption of ultra-processed foods, which is a great thing.

Good. And it's not necessarily that oils have a health impact per se. It is the reduced consumption of ultra-processed foods. So I think it's a fair argument. Yes Yes Yes yes Yes. I agree. It's definitely a controversial topic and very cool. Yes, they have asked me and my opinion is the same as always. I know more about extra virgin olive oils, I know more even about the kind of judicious use of butter or clarified ghee. I mean, we've been using clarify given in our kind of culture for centuries, you know, and fortunately we've had very good health outcomes in our family tree.

But obviously we don't like pounds in every meal we have or, you know, a bunch in our coffee or whatever, because we're particularly susceptible to saturated fats. But hey, great. Let's go for the last one. Yes. So the last one, I would say fake meat products. Yes. Yes. Another controversial, very controversial. I am a proud advocate and unapologetic supporter of omnivores. I believe an optimal diet includes both ethically raised animal products and whole plants. I, you know, absolutely will. We attest to the value of incorporating and probably even increasing your intake of whole plants. But I also believe that animal products are incredibly nutritious, very nutrient-dense, and a wonderful source of protein.

And only a biologically appropriate part of our diet. And that's why a lot of people have switched from animal products to meat and dairy substitutes, which I think there's a health halo around them, at least in the United States. Know. They are a healthier option and are not ultra-processed. They don't compare nutritionally at all. And I think, you know, were there any long-term randomized controlled trials to support this? My hypothesis would be that a decrease in health would be seen as a negative impact on health because they are loaded with additives, unhealthy fats, usually, you know, refined grains and the like.

Again, you know, I like all the foods I've mentioned so far. I don't want people to think I'm fear-mongering or anything like that. But like, you know, a little bit here and there, it's okay. But if you regularly eat these types of foods and mistakenly believe that based on billions and billions of dollars in marketing, maybe not billions, but billions of dollars in marketing at this point, that they are a healthier option. You are being deceived. Yes. And the other thing is that people who follow plant-based diets more closely tend to consume more ultra-processed foods. In fact, there was data from France.

Actually? Yes. That the people here, who avoid meat more, who adhere more to vegan and vegetarian diets, increased their consumption of ultra-processed foods, which makes sense, right? Because you are what you are. Especially in France, especially because they don't have many vegan options. Therefore, it will depend on some kind of ultra-processed, cheap, tasty and easily accessible option. Yes, it is usually found in the package. Well, yes, that is a fair limitation of the study that was carried out in France. But I mean, ultimately, if you eliminate a food group as large as animal products. Good. I mean, what are you going to replace it with?

Good. In a time when 73% of the items in the average American supermarket are ultra-processed? For example, what do you do to replace those foods with those protein-rich foods, you know, nutrient-dense foods? It's probably the ultra-processed products, you know? Yes. So yes, definitely, definitely something that I think is worth minimizing, if not avoiding. I mean, I never eat fake meat, but if you're the type of person who enjoys it once in a while, go for it. But you know, it's not like that, just don't fool yourself into thinking it's a healthier option. Generally it is the line.

Totally, whenever I'm asked about these meat replacement products, you know there are versions of meat replacement products that I think are healthy or healthier. And then there's some really nasty stuff out there that when you look at the back of the package and, you know, again, don't be alarmed or anything, but when you just look at it in comparison to most convenience foods and ultra-processed foods , they're pretty comparable, I mean, it's pretty bad for you because you know, you have all these additives and I'm afraid you're right. There is a health halo around the fact that it is plant-based.

You know, it's not any animal product. You know, it has added protein or whatever the health claim is. And so relying solely on that packaging and those claims can lead people to falsely believe that this is a healthy trade-off for the nutrient-dense animal products you could consume that are leaner, etc., etc. So yes, I agree. . I think some of the posts I saw on Instagram comparing some brands of, say, plant-based replacement products to dog food were pretty insightful. Yeah, I look at that and I mean you could tell us what you do with those posts. Well, yes, fake meat is essentially glorified dog food.

You know it's like human pet food. The ingredient lists are indistinguishable. If you put a hamburger past something, you know, some kind of pet food, you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. And that is what I test with this post on Instagram. And lo and behold, most people couldn't find it. You could not. I looked at it and I didn't cheat. I didn't want to go and look like any burger or dog food website. And I literally couldn't tell the difference between them. And that was really eye-opening. That's when the penny drops guy was saying, I should probably talk a little more about these types of replacement products and warn people that this is not a healthier option.

It could be a luxury option. It may be something you want to enjoy from time to time, but it's certainly not a daily staple. Hmm. Yeah, it's, you know, this idea that, you know, I mean, most people in the West with Western diets consume adequate protein to not, you know, avoid deficiency. Just like protein deficiency is quite rare. But high-quality proteins, like animal products, don't see the same degree of protein quality or quantity in animal product substitutes. I mean, taking a glass of nut milk and comparing it to, I mean, soy milk might be the exception, but like almond milk compared to, you know, cow's milk, like you're not getting the same quality. or amount of protein by a lot.

And this idea that we're consuming too much and that we should reduce our protein intake, I think is a hypothesis that can potentially cause real harm, particularly in an obesogenic food environment where protein is the most satiating. macronutrient. And in general, Americans and probably British, you know, also British citizens are already consuming primarily plant-based diets. Now, it is true that they do not consume whole plants. They consume ultra-processed foods that tend to be plant-based. But we are seeing the impact of that. I mean, it's day and night. I mean, we are trending toward a world where half of us are not only overweight but obese.

I mean, that's shocking. And protein is a really valuable tool. I mean, not only do animal foods that contain high protein tend to go along with other very important concerns. There was a study published by Stuart MC about a protein research company that forgot his last name. Well. Stewart Phillips. There you go. Who is a highly published protein researcher who published on this. The fact that, you know, foods that contain protein tend to not only contain protein, but they tend to be very rich in nutrients. And that's what that document also corroborated. So it's that, but it's also the fact that protein is incredibly satiating and, yeah, it's like eliminating protein-rich foods from your diet and replacing them with these like these, these facsimiles, to me, yeah, it's not like that.

It makes a lot of sense. Yes. I recently did a podcast about eating on a budget, right? And unfortunately, you know, just due to the fact that animal products are more expensive, having a budget focused on eliminating some of those products from your basket, so you would have to rely on them less. I still have some, but maybe be more cautious about it and introduce more plant-based proteins into your diet, which tend to be cheaper and more easily accessible. And I remember looking at the amounts of protein in these different products, whether it's different types of beans or nuts or seeds and all that kind of stuff.

And it's very difficult to avoid the fact that you're going to get lower amounts of protein per 100 grams or per calorie than you would with the equivalent animal product, whether it's an egg or a piece of lean meat or whatever. could be. And actually the combination of those, yes, you get all those non-essential amino acids, but you have smaller amounts of methane or, you know, leucine or whatever, which are the really important building blocks for protein synthesis and ensuring that Not only will you have enough protein, but also, you know, good levels of protein. And I think there's a kind of not dogma, I mean, but a kind of cognitive dissonance to this idea that you can't achieve if you can achieve protein adequacy with a plant-based diet;

In reality, it is simply more difficult. You have to eat a lot more of those products to maintain the same amount of protein as possible. If you only eat animal products or at least some animal products it's something you have conversations with. With yes, with plant-based persuasive. Completely. Yeah, I completely agree that you know, if when you eat, if you eat enough protein, you can stimulate muscle protein synthesis to the same degree on a plant-based diet as you can on an omnivorous diet. I mean it's been shown that there really is no functional difference, assuming you're consuming enough protein.

Yes, but it comes from a variety of sources, because all proteins, all plants, contain all amino acids, but in varying amounts some contain very low levels of, you know, lysine or methane or whatever. Then you have to combine them. And most people who follow a vegan diet are aware of this at this point. And most cultures have also been traditionally combined. Yes. When you have lentils and rice and, you know, if you look at African and Indian cultures, they tend to have this combined effect. So there is something in the DNA of our food history that has worked.

You need to combine these different sources. Yes, but lo and behold, if you look at the population level of people who follow vegan diets, they tend to consume less protein, they tend to have lower muscle mass, and they tend to have poorer bone health and a higher risk of hip fractures. And, you know, that's like scratching the surface. And on my podcast we talked about how, you know, you have to make it simple for people. You know, it just comes out with that concept of one more, right? Yes. So if you take the average person and trick them into believing that the vegan diet, you know, eliminates all of their favorite animal products and they like to do well this dramatic overhaul of their lifestyle.

And putting them on this plant-based diet will improve their health. And then thinking that, you know, because, as you acknowledged, it's harder to get the amount of protein you need for optimal flourishing on a vegan diet. And then you give them all these other guidelines and rules. I mean, you're setting them up for failure. I mean, obviously some people will be able to do it right, especially people who have social media accounts that are essentially professional vegans who, you know, pay all the rent by appealing to how easy it's supposed to be. They look and how good they feel when they are in it.

But for the average person, it's a very difficult diet. Yes, and I don't advocate the ketogenic diet or anything like that. I just, you know, try to recommend the most balanced diet that includes both. I think that's optimal because it is. Yes, that is a very good point. You know, making it easier for people would actually be introducing easily bioavailable proteins, of whichyou'll get animal-based proteins instead of plant-based proteins, where you have to put a lot more effort into it. And I think we need to appreciate the fact that if you go on a completely plant-based diet, it's going to take a lot more effort, it's going to take a lot more motivation.

And it is more difficult, as a product of our dietary landscape, to maintain that type of diet in the quantities necessary to maintain not only efficiency, but also optimal levels of those different nutrients. Yes, and you know, it's satisfying. It's about, you know, fighting frailty as we age. I mean, that's a real concern. SARCOPENIA obesity is on the rise. OPEC itself is on the rise. And then, you know, we see a progressive decrease in muscle mass as people age, especially in the United States. You know, probably here just because our lifestyle has become so sedentary. 25% of adults are not completely sedentary.

Now, resistance training and exercise. I mean, that's extremely important, right? So a protein is not the only variable here. There aren't enough people doing resistance training, which is another rabbit hole to go down. Yes, but I think protein is really important and should not be underestimated. Definitely. Let's get into another controversial topic. Now that we're on this topic, what do you think about the whole egg debate? Oh man. And if you think you know, people should eat as many eggs as they can, avoiding them. It's like, well, what's your opinion on that? I think you should only avoid eggs if you are allergic or sensitive to them.

I think they are wonderful foods. I call them genius. Foods like Mother Nature have designed an egg yolk to contain everything that is important for brain growth. And so it is, literally, one of nature's multivitamins. I mean, if you look at what egg yolk contains, it's loaded with choline, which we know is vitally important for creating brain cell membranes. It is a great source of vitamin B12. It is a great source of DHEA, fat, and a myriad of micronutrients. And the fact that it contains a lot of cholesterol. Yes, it is not surprising that the brain accounts for 25% of the body's total cholesterol.

Now, I am not saying that it is necessary to consume cholesterol to promote brain health. That's not what I'm saying. But not surprising. Of course, the yolk of an egg is loaded with cholesterol. Because? Because it is there to support the growth of the newborn's brain. And so I think fears about dietary cholesterol have long been abolished by newer medical science. I mean, many people will still repeat on social media that dietary cholesterol is not good for our lipids. But that's like, you know, it's what the '70s called, they wanted to get their science back and there are exceptions, right?

There are hyper, there are hyperabsorbents and things like that. But for most people, dietary cholesterol shouldn't be a concern. There are many benefits that can be obtained from eating eggs. Good. The risks are very low. Again, if you're allergic, I mean, eggs are what really surprised me when I learned this, that they're one of the main foods that people tend to have sensitivities to. Yes Yes. Particularly in white. Um, but I didn't realize that it is. Not the. The children are Oh, like in white, so I. Yes Yes. White eggs though even white people. I think that was a strange way of saying why so much white.

I thought no, with whites you want to make sure the whites are cooked. Well, you know, the yolk, it's great to be right. I mean, I personally enjoy passing the yolk, but you want to make sure the whites are fully cooked and down to the egg component, not the people. Yes Yes Yes. Um, and, and yeah. So I'm a big fan. Great source of lutein and zeaxanthin, um, which are carotenoids that directly support eye and brain health, you know, in terms of their concentration, not as high as those in dark leafy greens like kale, but very bioavailable because they're a Balance of fats and fats.

Facilitate its absorption. And, and yes, so I'm a, yes, there are very few downsides. Yes, yes, I was constantly asked about the eggs, whether they were Prores or ANSI eggs and I agree. I think it's one of those, one of the most impressive foods when you look at the statistics, whether it's protein or fat quality. , lutein and zeaxanthin, as you mentioned, vitamin D, you know, all these different elements of the egg that make it a fantastic source of all these different nutrients. But then it lurks in the back of my head, as some patients I've seen who have high cholesterol as measured not only by LDL C, but also by poor B-containing lipoproteins hyperabsorb some of that cholesterol.

And although I think it was a 2015 National Lipid Allergy Society in the United States, unless you think it's called or maybe it's Los Angeles, I can't remember right now, but they kind of squash this whole idea that, you know, You know, cholesterol in the diet is decreasing. to affect your cholesterol levels measured by blood markers. But for some people that still has an effect. And I think, as a doctor, when I see patients and I talk to them about their diet and stuff and we try to optimize all these different things, I think that minimizing certain people's consumption and in some cases, avoiding it might be the most reasonable thing to do, although It hurts because I love eggs and I also like liquids.

Yes. However, do you evaluate their approach and perhaps ask them to reduce saturated fat first? Because we know that saturated fats can contain certain saturated fatty acids. Yes. To be more specific. If I. I tend to, you know, actually have an effect. You're right. And the saturated fat content in eggs is actually pretty low compared to other things like marbled red meat or, you know, chicken skin, everything else, except for dairy. Now that people are coming around to the idea that it's not just saturated fat, as many people don't realize, there are actually many different types of saturated fat in different forms as well.

And there may be some protective elements of fats, including trans fats, as well as the iron seal found in dairy products. And you know, for someone who's been saying for a long time this idea that you need to eliminate all trans fats, and now I'm like, oh, not really all trans fats, damn. Nutrition. Yes, at the end of the day we are just students. I mean, you know, it's amazing. But yes, you are right. In ruminant animals they produce it in their intestines. Yes. And it is incorporated into milk and fat. Yeah. It's, I mean, there's not a lot of data on clay, but there is, you know, a potentially anti-cancer effect of conjugated linoleic acid.

Yes. Yes, exactly. And so, yes, dairy could be something we get the money back. But you are correct. Yes. Saturated fat is something we would eliminate first and then we would be thinking about eggs. But, you know, a lot of people just want to work as hard as possible because they're trying to avoid using statins that they may not have had a particularly good experience with because of the biology and all the other side effects that you can get with them. statins. You know, there are other lipid-lowering therapies that we can use, like fibrates and so on.

But yes, that is certainly something that pains me when I have to suggest to some people on Earth that they eliminate eggs from their diet. I would ask about the exercise and rest that we were talking about a little bit, you know, weight training and strength training. What do we know about exercise on the brain? Because this is something I'm trying to teach my parents. I'm trying to really motivate them to start moving every day and doing a variety of different exercises because they want to keep their cognitive faculties working. Yeah, well, when it comes to brain exercises and medicine and, you know, ultimately whatever your favorite exercise modality is, I think just do that.

But I do think that resistance training really has a bias in the literature toward aerobic training simply because, from a basic scientific standpoint, it's much easier to make a mouse run on a treadmill, you know, and then euthanize it. and see what it's done to your brain than making a mouse start learning how to bench press and, you know, do push-ups and shoulder presses and things like that. But research is starting to show us that resistance training is actually beneficial, especially for older populations. I mean, the brain thrives, the body type that's the one that moves.

And so from a bone health standpoint, from a point of view of ensuring that you can continue to be mobile as you get older, I mean, there's really nothing better than resistance training. It also increases your ability to eliminate glucose. We all eat relatively high carbohydrates these days and have a very limited ability to store the glucose those carbohydrates produce. Our muscles are one of the main ways we store glucose and to promote insulin sensitivity throughout the body, it is incredibly important. And also as a means to

prevent

cognitive decline. He thinks that avoiding hypertension is really important and that exercise is incredibly effective.

If not, it is as effective as drugs. In fact, analyzes show that it reduces high blood pressure. And so is resistance training. I mean, you should always check with your doctor to make sure it's safe to do so. But I mean, for most people, it's safe and actually incredibly healthy. There was a meta-analysis that looked at resistance training dosage. And this just came out and you found out that as long as your resistance training is moderate to high intensity. And if you do it, I think at least twice a week there is a significant and pronounced effect on systolic blood pressure from resistance training alone.

So exclusively just resistance training. Wow. In this meta-analysis, look, no, I mean, aerobic is also aerobic. Yes Yes Yes Yes. But in this meta-analysis, they specifically looked at resistance training. Yes. Then I probably should have said specifically instead of exclusively. Yeah, but, but, yeah, I mean it's super effective. It pushes glucose, fresh oxygen nutrients from the blood to the brain, increases a protein called BD and then brain-derived neurotrophic factor, which is a kind of miracle growth protein for the brain. It helps balance neurotransmitters like glutamate and GABA, which can become dysregulated. You know, they actually give medications to help, you know, reduce cytotoxicity in the context of Alzheimer's disease.

So, yeah, I mean, it's a really powerful disease-modifying activity, you know, and it can be fun as long as you're doing something you enjoy. Yes I love it. I'm really into my strength training these days and I know it too. I'm actually getting closer to my cardio zone, as well as getting on the bike and running, and even more so to the benefits of mindfulness, really with just the specific disease, preventive effects as well. And what you're talking about is glucose elimination pathways to lean muscle mass. This is what I'm trying to get people to really think about not only are muscles nice to look at, but they are also sinks for glucose that would otherwise be floating around in different areas like fat cells and liver cells. .

You want to increase your glucose saving rate by increasing your lean muscle mass. And maybe that has some kind of knock-on effect. I'm not really sure if there's any evidence on how this also improves the brain's ability to use glucose. Because one of the things that I think we now understand about the dementia process is that brain cells cannot take up glucose as a result of the disruption of click-one receptors. I believe in the brain. Yes. Exercise increases glucose metabolism in the brain and it has been shown that the degree of insulin resistance in the body is strongly correlated with the degree of glucose hypometabolism in the brain.

And yes, you're right, in the brain of the person with Alzheimer's, glucose metabolism is decreased by about a percentage in someone who has Alzheimer's disease. But we can see that people who are genetically predisposed to developing Alzheimer's disease almost throughout their lives have a slightly reduced ability to generate ATP from glucose in people who carry APOE4. Yes a bit. Yes Yes it's correct. Yes, no, but you are right. That hypothesis is correct. Yes. Yes. I'm also excited about your documentary. Are you doing it right now? You. Know, preparing for it. Tell us a little more about it.

Yes. Thank you, it's called Little Vacuum Boxes and people can watch a trailer at Little Vacuum Boxes dot com and it's afilm that follows my mother who had dementia, that's why I got into this. So I'm not a doctor, I'm not an academic scientist. I've learned on the job, so to speak, and I'm always learning. But I got into this because my mother had dementia and it was incredibly traumatic, you know, for me and my family. And so I followed her for a couple of years before her death. And it's a really rare and intimate look at what dementia is like, affecting more and more of us now.

Actually, I don't know if you know this, but it is now the number one cause of death in the UK. Yes, which is shocking. It's just shocking, isn't it? Yes, it's like a sudden epidemic. People haven't really noticed these people. Most, most people, if you stand on the street, will probably say, you know, rightly so. Cardiovascular disease, maybe even cancer. But if. It's crazy. So in the documentary, I mean, before I knew anything about nutrition and health, I was just a son trying to do the best for his mother and help her live as long and healthily as possible.

And then the film continues that journey. But in it we have incredible interviews with Ivy League university researchers and, in fact, with the woman who coined the term type three diabetes, which I think is gaining more traction now as one of these hypotheses for why Alzheimer's develops. She's in the movie. I'm her name is Suzanne De la monte. And yeah, so she talks about how she also has a master's degree in public health. So she talks about, you know, the increasing rates across all demographic groups, really, of this condition. We have leading voices in the field of prevention involved.

And yes, it is a film that I am very excited about. I hope we find a distribution that allows us to reach as many people as possible. But for now, people can join what we have as a mailing list. So whenever we have similar news, we will update it a little. Anti boxes. Dot com. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll definitely check it out, man. I really appreciate you and you know, we were on your podcast about impact and how what I'm trying to do is have the biggest impact possible. It sounds like you're on a similar trajectory when it comes to your documentary, books, and everything you publish.

Are there things that are on your bucket list of feats, successes, or goals that are like five, ten, maybe even 20 years in the future that you want to try and achieve? Or are you just putting one foot in front of the other, trying to figure it out as you go? Yes, I think it's the latter. I think it's that, you know, I live each day, you know, one at a time. And I just hope, I just hope, you know, I'm just trying to do the best I can and learn as much as I can and share as much as I can in a way that's as authentic and and as logical and reasonable and responsible as I can.

And yeah, I mean, I love creating content. I love, you know, acquiring new knowledge. And that's what I hope to continue doing. I mean, I just feel very lucky. I think my mother's journey has helped me see what I believe is my purpose in life. And so I feel very grateful to be able to do this and, I mean, connect with brilliant people like you. I mean, one of the leading voices in health in the UK. I'm sitting here, talking to them, I mean, it's amazing. That's why I feel very lucky and I'm always very grateful to anyone who has adopted my ideas.

And I may not do everything right, but I'm always learning. I try. I strive to do the best I can. I hope that's worth something. Friend, I appreciate you very much. And you're doing great things. I appreciate you. And we need more people like you to speak at the talk and do amazing things like the documentaries, books, and content you publish. So keep it up, man. I really appreciate it. It means a lot. If you enjoyed that video, you'll love the library of content we have in Doctor Dotcom's Kitchen. Make sure you hit subscribe. We have podcasts in our library about brain health, wellness supplements, and much more.

Have a wonderful day.