Largo aliento - Calderón y el Juicio del siglo (13/01/2023)

The trial of Genaro García Luna in New York will change the story we tell ourselves about recent Mexico Who was Vicente Fox Who was Felipe Calderón And what the hell was his war against drugs Who was Peña Nieto and what the hell was his pacification and President López Obrador What dealings do you have with crime today? We talked today about the trial of García Luna with a great journalist. Jesus we read. Welcome to a long-term conversation. Jesús Lemus. Welcome to long-term conversation. What is going to happen in January, I think it is going to be a watershed in the information we have about the recent history of Mexico, which is the García Luna trial in New York City, without a doubt, I agree.

I think it is going to be A fundamental issue, we had said that the trial of the century was that of Chapo Guzmán, but I think that the trial of the century is really going to be that of Genaro García Luna or the names that could be mentioned, of course, and the man who was at the top of the pyramid. Regarding security in this country during the time of Chapo Guzmán and those who came after, let me fully enter into the issues of that trial. In December 2005, we woke up to the news of the rescue of three kidnapped people and the capture of two kidnappers on national television.

Today we know that it was a montage put together by the director of the AFI Genaro García Luna. When did you know that what we Mexicans were seeing was a montage, well, I knew that practically when I was held in the Puente Grande prison. imprisoned by presidential order by Felipe Calderón in 2008, 2009 and 2010 and part of 2011 were three years and five days. I was locked up in the Puente Grande prison and there, speaking with some of the tenants of that prison at that time, I knew that the capture of the scarcity and the people who accompanied her that morning because it was a montage when it was broadcast on television through the Televisa channel of molatos that And I learned that precisely from versions of Sergio Villarreal Barragán one Of the men who were close to Genaro García Luna, in addition to being there, he was also in jail.

Of course, we spent some time as companions in the same hallway and among other things he talked. Well, he talked about those one of those montages that he liked to do. Genaro García Luna in order to be able to report that his campaign against the fight against drug trafficking was successful, now let me ask you how much when did Carlos Loret de Mola know that it was a setup, he would not be able to say. He would not know when he found out about Flores de Mola but without a doubt He had to have known from the beginning from the first day because for this and I refer to it in my book licensed for this assembly there was a payment and there are the invoices contained in it in this book there I refer to the invoices the payments that this one made for make news a payment for Lorete Mola directly That is, there is a payment for Televisa to have recorded this supposed rescue of the kidnapped people, there was a payment, yes and no, just the payment for the montage of shortages, there is a payment, there are many payments, there are the invoices I don't remember must be some seventy eighty invoices that under certain institutional programs payments were made to Televisa to make this type of inflate this type of notes and among them was of course the setting up of flora shortage and to Televisión Azteca as well, that is the information that Gerardo García Luna gives to Televisa from TV Azteca, paying them to inflate the information to highlight certain news that suited his strategy.

Of course it was a topic that he promoted well and that Alejandra Sota handled it very well. Not much has been said, eh, and it has always been left aside, but Alejandra Sota was together with Max Cortázar, they were the ones who devised a way to approach Televisa and TV Azteca and other media outlets, who were also paid millions of pesos. Well, to promote the advances of the fight against drug trafficking of the famous war against drugs and there of course includes this montage I am going to cut you off because we have so many things to talk about with you Jesus that I do not want to stop at this one which is by the way the best known of The ones we are going to discuss today, García Luna is accused in New York City of conspiring to traffic cocaine using false statements and of having received bribes from the Sinaloa Cartel to give them protection since he was director of the AFI in the six-year term of Vicente Fox, what do you think?

Is it possible that Fox, President Fox, did not know that the man had dealings with the Sinaloa Cartel, nothing less and nothing more, to protect the cartel, it is impossible that the president of the republic himself and the attorney of So no have known who Genaro García Luna was, that was an open secret, the way in which the head of the AFI was corrupted. And this does not just have to be said. Sabina did not just know it at the time that Genaro García was receiving bribes, you also knew it. the head of the presidential office at that time, Alfonso Durazo Montaño, and the secretary of public security of the Federal Government at that time, who was Alejandro Gers Manners, then he was not just the president, there was an elite government group that knew Who was Gerardo García Luna?

How was he receiving bribes from Jesús Zambada García, the famous King Zambada? knowledge then there was an intention to deceive the people of Mexico since always from my point of view since there was always the intention to deceive the people of Mexico trying to establish Who Genaro García Luna was trying to establish him as a great police officer trying to point him out as a reference in the fight against drug trafficking and a career was built for him by the interests of economic potentates, it must be remembered that Gerardo was recommended by Vicente Fox to be in charge of the ownership of the AFI because precisely by Carlos Slim because Carlos Slim had already been working with Genaro García Luna when Carlos made Genaro García Luna available to him as dismissal director, they made the Telmex telephone lines available to him so that he could do his espionage work from there they know each other and we must also remember a very important fact that Genaro García Luna intervened very positively in the resolution of Alfredo's kidnapping, Carlos Slim's first cousin.

So from there there is a very close relationship between Carlos Slim and Jeron García, it was one that we have short memory or selective memory, well it is something else. In Mexico this happens frequently, Geron García is only associated with drug traffickers and with Felipe Calderón or they also have links with other places, we are talking about what I already told you about the characters. So yes. So let me translate it. What are you saying? There was no deception by García Luna towards Fox. And you will surely tell me the same thing towards Calderón, but that it was the so-called war against drugs that was really the administration of crime for the sake of crime and the government on the part of exactly one side of the crime.

So in those words let's talk about Calderón García Luna was appointed by President Felipe Calderón as Secretary of Security while possibly continuing to traffic drugs and protecting the Sinaloa Cartel I ask you directly do you have evidence that Felipe Calderón knew that he knew what the Secretary of Security was putting to a person who had direct dealings with drug cartels and who trafficked the same drug, of course it exists. All of this evidence. In other words, if you want a signed and sworn record, then we are never going to find a photograph either, but there are many journalistic testimonies within of drug trafficking that they have that point out precisely that reference that Genaro García Luna that Felipe knew that Gerardo García Luna trafficked drugs gave protection to drug trafficking and had a close relationship with many drug traffickers who have read my book the lawyer from Harper Collins 2020 there you can find a narrative that makes first person Enrique Villarreal Barragán the great that he already speaks and he says testimonially that he witnessed a meeting between Ismael Zambada García and Arturo Beltrán Leyva a region that happened as soon as Felipe Calderón was elected in in 2006 and that meeting took place to agree on a financial purse by the Sinaloa and Beltrán Leyva cartels to pay Felipe Calderón the amount of twenty million dollars to put Genaro García in charge of the Ministry of Public Security.

Luna That testimonial is from this this one Sergio Enrique Villarreal Barragán There it is So what else do they want because the only thing missing is that people want to see a receipt of this man receiving the money no Hey but this is that it really is a reversal of the story that we have told ourselves in recent years because it is not that there was a little corruption, we are talking about President Felipe Calderón receiving 20 million dollars. Right now I will ask you about the five million dollars that the Barbie says he gave to Calderón this and then he launches the war against drugs, that is, then not during, then he says and now we are going to invent them, we are going to make a montage, but the size of the country.

Exactly, what he says is correct, that is, Felipe Calderón knew and he stopped to cover himself. perhaps to protect himself even from the same story that one day he would be accused, as he is, of having colluded with drug trafficking for that invented war against drug trafficking and for that reason he supposedly launched all the federal forces to fight when in The reality was that in front of the television cameras and in front of the media they fought drug trafficking but under the table they received the money from organized crime and that is already more than established journalistically.

All that is left is for them to dare to establish what judicially Jesús in the trial against El Chapo when El Chapo began to refer to Peña Nieto the judge interrupted the trial and this means that there is an agreement between the government of Mexico and the government of the United States not to involve the heads of state surely taking into account national stability concerns. You believe that in this trial that is coming in January, the end of January, the beginning of February in New York City, it will be the same, the gringos will continue to protect the heads of the Mexican state, said directly, Fox and Calderón, well, I think that these are different times.

It could be that it could not be that some names are allowed to be mentioned. Well, of presidents or former presidents within the trial, let us remember that there is already a testimonial from Alexis Fuentes, a Colombian drug trafficker, who talks about how Chapo Guzmán Well, he bribed and I quote verbatim what he says, he bribed President Peña Nieto and the current president and that statement was made precisely in 2019, so I believe that López Obrador This is what the testimony says to Enrique Peña Nieto and the current president and it was a statement made in 2019 by Alexis Cifuente Cifuentes So those types of statements and those types of statements that are already documented in a public court in the United States talk about possibly Judge Bryan being able to now allow the names to be mentioned that They have to be mentioned to gradually clarify the history of drug trafficking in Mexico in Mexico and in the United States, not because they also have to tell us the secret history of their trafficking and we will talk about it, we will make another program about this, the secret history of drug trafficking in the United States and the overlap of the CIA, the FBI, the DEA with that drug trafficking and the American presidents.

Hey, it has recently been leaked that Barbie claims that she paid five million dollars to President Calderón, that's how she launched the public accusation In that sense But I do not have any testimonial or documentary data that refers to that possibility. What I can tell you is that I have the testimony of nothing more than Sergio Enrique Villarreal who talks about paying 20 million dollars to the President, I don't know, I don't have any information about Barbie. Now, where is Barbie? Is he a protected witness? He is no longer in any prison in the United States.

He is no longer under the protection of the I mean under the observation of the Government. Federal but yes under protection, he is precisely a protected witness who since possibly since June of this year has already been out of prison possibly with another identity possibly with another face possibly with a maybe decent job somewhere in the world in a tapalería, you imagine him in a tlapanería with his millions of dollars saved in the bank. But of course he is somewhere protected because he is a character that the North American government believes can continue to exploit, it believes that it can continue obtaining information and This could be useful in the future.

Do you remember that photo when they arrested Barbie? Barbie's smile, not with her Apollo t-shirt, this and really funny at all the circus that was happening around you, you have indications that he already knew what he was going to negotiate. He was going to negotiate his freedom for this, yes, it's true, without a doubt, that's what he was laughing about and that's what he was also laughing about in his cell in the Puente Grande prison Sergio Enrique Villarreal Barragán and that's what Alfredo Beltrán was also laughing about at some point. Leyva in the jail cell and Rafael Caro Quintero himself may surely be laughing at that so that he will never be extradited to the United States becauseThey are drug traffickers who, apart from having accumulated so much power and wealth, also had so much information from corrupt public officials that they knew that these were their exit doors, at some point they end up in any prison outside of Mexico or the United States and that is what will allow them In the end, get out of jail, that's why I don't doubt, I don't doubt that Barbie's laugh, well, that's why she must have felt that reason and you found Barbie's laugh, who do you think is biting her nails right now, apart from Calderón and Fox, huh?

Apart from them, I believe without a doubt that it must be the secretary of the interior of Sorry, the secretary. Yes, the secretary of the interior of Enrique Peña Nieto, Miguel Ángel Osorio Chong himself, who could also be related to General Salvador Cienfuego Cepeda, secretary of defense. National of the government of Enrique Peña Nieto, I think they would be the most important public officials in Mexico or former public officials, one of them who is biting his lips right now because many names will surely come up in this trial of Genaro García Luna. Because there are many people who still gave contracts to Genaro García Luna, I told you from the Ministry of the Interior, when it was already known about his collusion with drug trafficking and he continued selling software and hardware espionage services to the Mexican government, then Oye Salinas, giving him Salinas. sheet setting up a security company for García Luna's right hand man how about until the day before where they caught him Palomino was the head of security for the Salinas group much to talk about that let's go to a cut And we will return García Luna is He was about to be tried in New York and was arrested a couple of years ago, however, the victims of his injustice, many of them are still in prison.

How is this possible? Well, first of all, this is possible because we have serious corruption, as the president has said. López Obrador Sabina we have serious corruption in the system of administration of Justice, which are the judges, the federal judges are the ones who have allowed a large number of innocent people to be imprisoned even in the government of President Felipe Calderón who are still imprisoned there, I can talk to you Even since my Sabina case, I was imprisoned when I watched over the relationships that Felipe Calderón's sister Luisa María Calderón Hinojosa had and she was a senator, the relationships she had with the head of the Knights Templar Servando Gómez Martínez La Tuta Jesús, welcome back to long term in Enrique Peña Nieto's six-year term, García Luna no longer had a position, however, he continued to exercise power, you cannot explain what García Luna's power consisted of in Peña Nieto's six-year term, of course, after Genaro García Luna finished his function as secretary of public security with Felipe Calderón the government of Enrique Peña Nieto did lobbying work he was a very important truck driver for some transnational companies dedicated to the sale of espionage services for the Mexican state and he was an intense promoter of many government companies Israeli Sorry no where the government many companies of Israeli origin that sat in Mexico and began to sell Pegasus computer equipment for example because it was bought precisely because Genaro García was the one who offered it to the nearby government and was the one who well moved their relations public for it to be acquired.

Even on some occasions at a premium, that espionage software was then. That was the main work that Genaro García Luna did to connect transnational espionage companies with the Mexican government through his connections that the secretary of security himself had. Tell us about it. Cárdenas Palomino, another Genaro García Luna's lieutenant, if he is guilty of what he is accused of, García Luna Palomino was his executing hand. This man spends the six-year term of Peña Nieto being the head of security for the Salinas group. Tell us how that was the case. That is why it is very important to review this issue of Luis Cárdenas Palomino because apart from the fact that he was the private secretary of Genaro García Luna and that many of his instructions were downloaded through him, it is not just about receiving payments or giving protection to certain groups. of drug trafficking but also of executing some of the commanders who already make Genaro García Luna himself uncomfortable.

Well, he was also Luis Cárdenas, he was a promoter of the privatization of public security of the Mexican government, he was the one who managed with Genaro García Luna himself the creation of a law so that companies could create private companies that would be given the possibility of selling security services to the highest bidder and thanks to it, 360 private public security companies were created that mysteriously won contracts to take care of the services. of security in train stations in airports in orchards in bus stations nerve centers of the country where drugs, weapons, immigrants and any type of thing that can benefit travel.

The fact is that Luis Cárdenas Moreno was the author of this Machiavellian situation that little has been said about how it was privatized and how the privatization of public security continues to be maintained eh Who manages the security cameras in Mexico City Well, that particular thing is a particular company where this Palomino has to do, well it's amazing No It's not that Luis Cárdenas Palomino also when he allows public security to be subsidized he himself says I want to create a private company and he associates with the owner of TV Azteca of Grupo Azteca this man Ah the name goes what will his name be?

Ricardo Salinas Ricardo Ricardo partners with Luis Cárdenas Palomino and they create a company called adamantium and through adamantium he offers or sells security services to everything that is the Azteca corporate and no Nothing else that yes no Nothing more that adamantium is also dedicated to providing services to some of the mines owned by the Salinas group where, by the way, it must be said that there have been murders of journalists and there have been murders of environmental defenders who are in opposition to certain mines. As for For example, there in Baja California where the Los Cardones mine owned by this group from Salinas pliego has strangely caused the death of environmentalists and defenders of that region and where are at least elements of the adamantium group involved in the primary investigations?

We must understand the seriousness of the matter that Mexico City, the capital city, is monitored but not by the state but by a company, a private company, that is to say that our security is deposited in a private company but also all our information we could suddenly have a coup de state of the private to the Mexican state with a tremendous because we have given them our our intelligence Yes yes without problem that is the risk of the privatization of public security that today the protection services or you point out the many security cameras are controlled by equipment by private companies Look, let's not go that far, the protection mechanism stops subsidizing the Protection service for journalists through a private company that is rcu systems, it is a system, this has a relationship with members of that corporation with Genaro himself García Luna And we can talk about other companies that are in charge of the security of some municipalities in the country.

Jesus, what you are saying is infinitely perverse. That is, the protection of journalists. Grammar It failed me. Here he is recounting a very perverse reality that The system of protection for journalists who investigate corruption is in the hands of the corrupt of the most corrupt, the corrupt who dare to murder this good one. Let's move on in this truly sinister story. García Luna is about to be tried in New York and without However, sorry and he was arrested a couple of years ago, however, the victims of his injustice, many of them are still in prison, how is this possible?

Well, this is possible, first because we have serious corruption, as President López Obrador Sabina has said, we have serious corruption. corruption in the procurement system not procurement in the system of administration of Justice who are the judges the federal judges are the ones who have allowed a large number of innocent people to be imprisoned even in the government of President Enrique Peña Sorry for President Felipe Calderón who still They are imprisoned there, I can talk to you even from my case Sabina, I was imprisoned when I watched over the relationships that Felipe Calderón's sister Luisa María Calderón Hinojosa had and she was a senator, the relationships she had with the head of the Knights Templar Servando Gómez Martínez La That's why it cost me to go to the Puente Grande prison for three years and five days and there I was imprisoned under a story, a legend that practically formed me by the Public Security Secretariat of Genaro García Luna with the sole purpose of having me imprisoned and they created me a story Yes, and I am going to ask you more in our last segment about this sinister story of which you were a victim.

However, now I want to continue with the Jesus trial, the DEA and the Co. always knew who García Luna and Cárdenas Palomino were and they collaborated with them. The question is what happened so that right now, well, García Luna himself was given a Genius visa, not so that he could stay in the United States, what happened? What was broken or what changed within the DEA and the CIA so that this mafia pact was broken? Yes Well, let me tell you that what I have found is that the CIA and the DEA were also deceived in some way because Naru García Luna Because if we must recognize Genaro García, once he had a great ability for espionage, he was very skillful and The main ability of a spy is not to know that he is a spy, and Genaro García Luna knew how to perfectly deceive the United States government and other governments in the world that gave him recognition, such as the French, the Spanish, the Canadians, Japan.

He was recognized as the greatest police officer in the world, that is, he deceived many investigative agencies, yes. And then he deceived the United States government because the United States trained him through the FBI in kidnapping matters, trained him through the DEA in anti-drug matters, trained him through the CIA in matters of antiterrorism and the United States initially saw him as a great policeman as a man who was truly fighting against organized crime and began to spill millions and millions of what fractured the relationship, precisely what The United States government, after the Mérida plan was established, which was like the officialization of the relationship between the United States' intervention in Mexico to combat drug trafficking, began to see that the millions of dollars that the government was sending were not well invested.

United States government and they began to find something like twenty-one million dollars missing and that was when they began to investigate, it was later also through the arrests of some drug traffickers that they began to learn about García Luna's relationship and how he was forcing him to pay A protection is when the United States says This is not and it is not, it is not as good as we think and that is when the relationship is broken and that is when the investigation follow-up begins to take place what date what date Will that be we are talking about possibly I locate the date that possibly around 2007 when the United States began to see that Genaro García Luna was not the trustworthy man he had to see, life begins but it took them a while to arrest him, the entire Peña era passed without arrest him and continued to have a relationship with him because the main indications of that relationship were not very solid and they had to be solidified precisely with the arrests of this drug trafficker Damaso López Núñez was the first to put pressure and put and He explained who had given him protection What García Luna's relations with El Chapo Guzmán were like and later That's good, this is added to other statements mainly from Vicente Zambada Niebla and others like Jesús Zambada García himself, so they are the ones that Those statements solidify that the United States says that now we have a good grip on his hands, they wait for his term to end because they were not going to enter into a diplomatic process.

Although in the end they could have entered. They wait for his term to end so that they can get his hands on him. On top of that, you can imagine the United States government summoning Felipe Calderón and Vicente Fox to declare Yes, yes, I imagine and it is something that we are not in. This is far from happening, I think so, although here it could be this, we have to see it politically, yes, as long as I am here. Biden in the presidency is going to be very difficult because I, Baiden, is a very good friend of Felipe Calderón.

Remember that it was in the government, they are partners in the Fast and Furious operation, I, Biden, and Felipe Calderón himself, I am going to have Barack Obama's vice president. When the Fast and Furious operation took place, then it will be difficult for me to go, I can take it like oatmeal, declare, but if another president arrives in the United States, such as Donald Trump, arrives in the United States, hypothetically speaking, without a doubt, I do not see the possibility of far away. who has been called to testify, above all, more than Vicente Fox, above all Felipe Calderón, above all Felipe Calderón this Why about Why more Felipe Calderón than Felipe Calderón was the one who in some way also benefited from the No nothing else was ignored No nothing It was ignored, nothing more, he let it pass andHe also participated in those actions that Genaro García Luna himself made when protecting drug traffickers.

If we start from the beginning by considering Sergio Enrique Villarreal Barragán's statement to be true and established, then Felipe Calderón would have received twenty million dollars for putting a drug trafficker in the public security department, so let's start from there and of course that would be the basis because I say No, it was not just an act of omission, it was an act of execution. You have become an expert on the subject of drug trafficking and its Cosme with political power, I ask you, in some country has there been a precedent similar to what we are experiencing.

What I am going for is, let's suppose that Felipe Calderón is guilty of having been in conflict with your government with drug trafficking. Let's suppose that we discover that The war against drugs was a fiction designed to deceive the people of Mexico, somewhere in the world there has been an incident involving a head of state who has been discovered in such an intrigue and who has been judged that way. I believe that there is nothing more than a precedent. Sabina and I think she is the antecedent of General Antonio Noriega of Panama, apart from that Antonio Noriega was a very useful ally of the United States to work in Panama later Antonio Noriega protects drug traffickers he helps bring in tons and tons of cocaine United States is prosecuted is detained prosecuted prosecuted and he dies in prison Antonio Noriega is the only case we have, it is the only precedent, it is not impossible that the fact that Felipe Calderón is tried in the United States could happen because he goes from being the United States' reliable partner in the war. against drug trafficking and now it is discovered that he was behind drug trafficking operations.

So we have a precedent that I think breaks the taboo that you say it cannot happen, it can happen, yes it can, it already happened in Panama, we already have the case and the army entered this The American went in to get him out of there and they took him out. In the air, not literally, they took him away like that and we didn't see him again in the rest of the way. We say that he is dead because we don't know if this Noriega is dead. Hey, what relationship did the attorney general have and have? of the current republic gers manero and García Luna Well at the beginning they had almost like all relationships it has a peculiarity they have at the beginning they have good relationships with their friends and then they almost always end up breaking those relationships there are many cases there is the case of Julio there is the case of Santiago Nieto the case even of Javier pollo Trejo who are friends and then they break up and the same thing happened with Gerardo García Luna at first when he was secret when Gesmar was secretary of security in the government of Vicente Fox and García Luna was head of The AFI in that same administration had a certain coincidence, a certain agreement, they understood each other perfectly, I cannot say that they were friends, there is no testimony that says that they were friends, they understood them of course and but then they break up and break up because Genaro García Luna, very Invasive, very well, he begins to invade spheres of the Ministry of Public Security and Genaro and and sorry and Alejandro Hertz is always very jealous of all the positions he holds.

That's where When that breakup begins to occur but there was a lot of relationship of course between Genaro García Luna and Alejandro What is Madero? Today one does not want to see through the magical thinking that many people in the country express is something else but that there was that relationship there was and that relationship is very close, leave with this I close this question, this relationship is very close Sabina due to the fact that that the public security triumvirate was managed at the beginning of Fox's six-year term by Genaro García Luna from the AFI, Gers Manero himself from the public security secretariat and Alfonso Durazo Montaño from the office of the presidency of the Republic and that is when There is the strange escape of Chapo Guzmán from the Puente Grande prison, that is, it is not possible that they were unaware of these three pillars of security, what one and the other was doing.

Now it is possible that they were not cooperating. In other words, one let the other do what they said. What do you want in his office, he said, and how corrupt and bloody García Luna is, I find it very difficult that the three of them have not cooperated. When we are talking, it is the beginning of the six-year term. The history of six-year terms is true in Mexico. Sabina And that was when I was The change team was impacted and it was when everyone was in the same dynamic as the president. I see it as very difficult.

I see it as very difficult for someone to have said. I am not tied with these two. You left, let's take a break and return to your books, The Damned and The Damned Two, about the conversations you had with characters like Daniel Arisment and the boy Daniela Aguilar Treviño to the confessed murderer of José Francisco Ruiz Maciel Who are the most damned, these ones that I just mentioned? García Lunas and Luis Cárdenas Palomino, I was held there with dozens of the most high-profile prisoners in the country and, believe me, I found that I don't want to mention anything else so as not to offend anyone to a degree of humanism in many of the most terrible drug traffickers who were there. but really, those who are most damned, I think, are those who were outside at that time, the politicians Felipe Calderón Genaro García Luna who made the Mexicans who were fighting against drug trafficking believe that they were building peace in the country when in reality all they were doing was getting rich filling your pockets Jesus Welcome to the long run, you already told us why you fell into jail, don't be here if you give us a brief summary and if you tell us how you got out well, as I told you in jail for revenge by Felipe Calderón He got upset because I pointed out his sister's relationship with drug trafficking.

And I went to the Puente Grande prison and there I was accused for three years and five days of being a major drug trafficker in a story that Secretariat staff captured on paper. of Public Security, so they created an incredible criminal story for me that I almost believed it, I ended up in jail, yes I ended up in jail and the judge who was in charge at that time, Roberto Miranda, Well, he ends up giving me a conviction in the first instance of twenty years ten for organized crime and ten for promoting drug trafficking That is the appeal in the process and of course an appeal court a magistrate from a unitary Court of Guanajuato found that there was not a single piece of evidence because everything was everything was an official version there was no There was not a single piece of evidence, there was not a call, there was not a meeting, there was not a photograph, there was not a bank account that said that I was a drug trafficker.

And I ended up being absolved by the government, well, by the Mexican justice system, they acquitted me, they said, There is no responsibility, I was completely absolved of everything. position but we should build monuments to the judges, these clean ones, they are few but they are crucial in the lives of the people. This in your books The damned and The damned two, you tell about the conversations you had with characters like Daniel Arizment and the big-eared Alfredo Beltrán Leyva. Mochomo Daniela Aguilar Treviño the confessed murderer of José Francisco Ruiz ma with Mario Aburto and Rafael that Caro Quintero among others Who are the most damned those that I just mentioned or García Luna and Luis Cárdenas Palomino precisely that that sabinal I think I was held there with with with dozens of the most high-profile prisoners in the country and, believe me, I found, well, this time to a degree, I don't want to mention anything else so as not to offend anyone, to a degree of humanism in many of the most terrible drug traffickers who were there, but really Who are the most Damned, I think they are those who were outside at that time, the politicians Felipe Calderón Gerardo made a statement that made Mexicans believe that they were fighting against drug trafficking that they were building peace in the country when in reality all they were doing was getting rich by filling their pockets. with bribes and at the level of facts, that is, García Luna is guilty of, you already illustrated to us what he is guilty of, but at the level of violence of cruelty towards his adversaries, what was García Luna capable of, not García Luna Cárdenas Palomino, this other man from Puebla, the same name. who is also imprisoned imprisoned now because all of them were perverts so perverse that they killed themselves that Nano García Luna, if a police commander no longer served his purposes or saw that he was putting his project of illicit enrichment with drug trafficking at risk, he would simply do it.

He commanded and executed it there we see from the main team of Genaro García Luna the main commanders who were murdered there were many people who disappeared that is and he himself ordered them to be murdered I think that Genaro García was one the trial that is being made falls short in the United States for nothing more than drug trafficking and bribery and those things, he should also have been prosecuted for a series of murders that were clearly and with a lot of proof, I tell you that they were ordered by him through precisely Luis Cárdenas Palomino, then I think there is a lot to accuse this good character of.

Cárdenas Palomino, this is known to have started in police and criminal life, which in his case stops the same path because he kills a taxi driver as a teenager to See what it feels like to kill a taxi driver to see what it feels like. Yes, there is a criminal antecedent from even before being a police officer and even this generated García Luna because he allows it. He tolerates it and that's how their executions were. Among them, they ordered their own people to be murdered. comrades without any kind of mercy, that's what Genaro Wheat was like, yes, they are truly cursed.

You're going to enter the trial in New York. You're going to go in. Who are you going to cover for the angels? How good are you going to write directly in English or are you going to I'm going to have a translator, I'm going to write in Spanish and very well, and do you think that the information is going to really flow to the public or, as I asked you before, are they going to reserve the most important issues like the gringos have done so far in the matter of drug trafficking? I'm not telling you. I think that because of what this judge has already shown how he is going to handle the case, I think that he is not going to restrict.

I think that he is not going to testify any of the testimony that is issued there in court, so we see that he will be very attentive. I hope that information is so open that what needs to be said is clearly stated so that Mexicans also know where the stories are going to continue. García Luna imprisoned you and tortured you for writing about his sins and those of Felipe. caldano now he is in prison and for and is about to pay for his guilt you feel satisfaction no no no no I do not feel satisfaction in this sense I think I allow myself to try not to allow myself any type of feeling towards this case I see it as a purely journalistic fact I do not want to think that If things go well for him and if things go badly for him, it is simply a fact of his own actions and that God protects him and justice that is only fulfilled.

The truth is that I don't have any, I don't even want to think about any kind of of philia or phobia towards the person of Genaro García Luna I know that he must be having a terrible time because prison is terrible enough for the most damned ones I know that he is having a Terrible time and no I do not allow myself to think about that possibility of feeling something something because of your situation damn well but it's like denying a feeling to the satisfaction that there is justice from time to time Yes yes yes maybe but you don't allow it Jesus no I don't allow it because I don't want this to distort my journalistic work I know that if I feel joyful about what is happening, maybe I would write In that sense So I don't I don't allow it I can't allow it Sabina because there are many people who continue to believe what I write So I don't want to betray him and That's what it is, it's the repression of a feeling, of course it's the repression of a feeling that I don't want to express and I don't want to say what I feel Because I don't even want to know what I feel, let's go Yes, all I want is for justice to be served, no one will care.

He said vey drug trafficking no one said go and let yourself be bribed no one So the only thing is responsible for his actions Jesus describe to us what conditions García Luna is living in And what can await him Well, I have found him guilty, what I am seeing is what I know is who lives in conditions of total isolation practically in a cell of two by three meters, he is allowed only once a day to go out to a patio of four meters of two by two meters and in that he sunbathes the air and then returns to his cell They only allow him one book in his cell.

They do not allow him more. They do not allow him calls. They do not allow him anything. They allow him to write a letter every three days. He has treatment with a psychologist who visits him, with whom he of course did not want to speak and He is in isolation, he has three meals a day, he receives three meals in his ranch, he does not go out to the dining room, he does not have contact with any type of prisoners, he does not have any physical activity, and I do not know what follows in relation to his wife and family. that that topic I want to know but sorry I know I know why but it is not like that because of something that I have investigated I heard it I heard that his wife was still in charge of the legal defense I don't want me I don't I never touch on the family issues of those of those of these public figures because it is not my concern, but if you have found guilty, what punishment will there be if found guilty?

Well, first, we have to start something if it comes to trial because Genaro García Luna continues trying to negotiate being a witness. protected to receive a minimum sentence that could be getting him out of prison possibly inten years, seven years is what you are looking for. If you could provide data from investigations that the United States government has, but if there is no negotiation and if you are found guilty, the first situation is that you could face a chain. Well, at least more than 35 years. It could even be life imprisonment if he has been found innocent.

Well, the most likely thing is that the Mexican government could claim him for extradition if the arrest warrants he has for torture and for arms trafficking and the date of the trial is defined, it is already defined for January 17, for January 17, it has already begun to leave for the trial to begin, possibly in a few days we will already be seeing the selection of those who They will form the court Well the court the Jury And then we are going to be very attentive to it because we will be very attentive to what you write in what you said in the Los Angeles Times and I hope you grant us another interview so that you can tell us about this is the Mega trial the trial that will change the entire history of the course of Mexico in the 21st century.

I thank you very much. Jesus, we always read my admiration for you as a journalist. Thank you. Thank you. I send you a hug and of course we will be waiting to talk and, friends, I will wait for you next time. Thursday for another long-term conversation