Mark Cuban on The NBA Boycott, Drafting Luka, & Winning It All | w/ JJ Redick & Tommy Alter

alright let's welcome the guest episode of this episode nine

mark

cuban

mark

thank you very much for joining us thank you for having me crazy jj the last few days in the nba uh we had this scheduled um it's very um you know we're very lucky to have you on this time to talk about some of the things that happened about a minute before we jumped on zoom, the NBA and the NBA just released a joint statement on the resumption of the season about some of the social justice initiatives that we're going to do together um, we talked to Landry Shamit yesterday and I got some perspective and insight from him on what the meetings were like with the players, with some of the coaches like Doc Rivers, in the bubble, what the last 72 hours were like for you al dealing with the league and with Adam on different phone calls, I mean, dealing with Adam was pretty easy, I mean, going in we knew we were going to support the players, you know what was important to them. important to us and really important to this country, I mean, you know it doesn't take a lot of brainpower to realize that this is something that's bigger than basketball, bigger than the NBA, so we went in really eager. to listen to the players. and try to fully understand, you know where they want us to go and how we can help, and that's the path we take.

You mentioned brain power, it doesn't take much brain power to figure this out, but there's a lot of pushback. um, you know, we'll never see the NBA again, of course, there's the crowd that shuts up and dribbles, um, you know, it seems to me that a logical, empathetic person could recognize and acknowledge what's happening, um, but would you? Why do you think there is a portion of our population in this country that is simply unwilling to acknowledge what is happening, what has been happening? Well, we live in a very partisan country right now, you know, we take sides and we're all on the bandwagon on some level and you know, when that happens, you support your team no matter what you know and that's what's happening in this moment and you know there are certain people who think we're making this political and you know.

For me, ending racism is not politics, it is an American principle. You know, it's something we've tried to evolve to achieve. You know, for 160 years. You already know. So, I think people just try to pick a team and follow them, and that's really it. it's a function of lack of leadership, especially now that we're at a point in the pandemic and with systemic racism where we don't know who to trust our lives to, you know, when it comes to the pandemic, who? listen to who we trust, it's not that we look at the president and say, wow, he really has a great understanding of what's going on and let's trust, you know he's trusting science and let's look at the president for information about this because that it doesn't happen when it comes to racism you know there's no leadership there either and that's unfortunate and you know maybe people don't like me saying this but when you look at blm well I'll ask you this is the same thing.

When I talk to our guys, you know, when you think about black lives, who do you know who the founders are? Well, I don't know specifically, but I think I just want to make a designation in terms of black lives matter, the type of movement. and the Black Lives Matter organization, yeah, right, that's the point, right, yeah, when I was trying to reach out to you, and then on top of that, when you think Black Lives Matter is the movement, who's the spokesperson, so there's not really a spokesperson at this time. That's one of the things that I tried and the points that I tried to make when I talked to our guys is that whatever the players decide to do, there has to be someone at the helm because part of the challenge right now is that there is no strong leadership , the control of the narrative is also partisan and you have the correct conservative republican narrative and since there is no spokesperson for the blm movement to stand up and say what you are really trying to defend and trying to end racism, then the media will take narrative control and that's one of my concerns and all of this I totally agree with you and I'm glad you brought this up because it's something I wanted to touch on I briefly mentioned Jared Kushner's name uh yesterday um so you I know it goes on I think who was on CNBC yesterday and I saw he's talking about Lebron and saying players have the luxury of being able to take a night off.

He said this is a quote from him. Slogan. Know? Instead of slogans and signs, how about real action that will solve the problem? My question to you regarding the leadership of this entire movement, why is the burden of solving these problems falling on professional athletes? Why is the burden on an administration not ours? elected officials to solve these problems and why an entire administration and basically an entire party is not willing to even acknowledge it and say it out loud and acknowledge the problem, yeah, look, I mean again leadership, you know, and when, when, you don't have leadership.

You're simply looking for votes and you just want to be re-elected, you're not going to do the right thing, you're going to do the most convenient thing to get re-elected, and a function of that is that you already know how to be adrift, so Jared Kushner says what he says because he knows better than to do it. there's no one to really challenge him, there you know, that's how things work right now and that's part of why it's so important to know the pause and the platform that NBA players have and why it's so important that you have a voice that stands out and is very vocal, you know when Doc Rivers goes on and talks the other night after our game.

Powerful, powerful, the way he is able to communicate the leadership that is in his voice, the message that he sends, that is what we are missing in this country, whether it is a doctor or someone from the players, like when we had our meeting , the zoom call last night, one of the things I mentioned is who's going to talk. to the media because in my opinion what you are asking about jj is who controls the narrative, why is it up to us to bring these things up and talk about them? Because no, we have nothing to say in the narrative.

Right now, you know, I've tried to express myself on a lot of topics related to this, but I can't be that person, it has to be someone who is living it and who you really know is part of their lives. that really leads the way and that's what we need more than anything and I think when we talk about that, you know trying to give it back to the players in an action element, we don't have anyone to answer it, you and I can talk about it with his blue face, but there has to be someone out there talking to those Republicans and telling them you're wrong.

Look, here are three action items that the NBA just put together that we're going to actively support. This is what we are going to do most: where are you and what are you doing? because now we answered your question, what is your answer, mark how? We've talked about this a lot on the show. We've talked about it with you specifically. How do you decide to know when to take the bait and when not to? And by that I mean you know Ted Cruz Hawley in Missouri, these guys who are supposed to be United States senators who are elected in addition to Kova by default to basically solve.

Our problems, to the extent possible, are spending time chasing you specifically or chasing the league over and over instead of doing their job, so how do you decide where to intervene and when to simply? like ignoring them, that's what's going on, like you heard me being relatively quiet now because the players have to take the lead on this, right? It can't be my voice before theirs, it has to be the players who say what they want when there is a law like pre-playoffs, I don't care, you know, and I'm bored, yes, as long as I don't do it, angry, to Sometimes I will write a tweet and delete it like many times.

Of people I do that, yeah, because you get mad at someone and your competitive side just wants to slap them, you know, figuratively, um and so on, but when I see something from an established politician like Ted Cruz or Josh Hawley, whoever to be. I don't mind going after them at all because they're using their social media platform, they're using their political platform to make a point and if they're going to do it at my expense then I'll probably go. Come back and say something and you know it usually works pretty well. I want to get back to the action element um

tommy

is involved with the lebron initiative more than a vote um and they're doing some amazing things but when Kushner says it's for me it's just false you know he's very aware of everything that players do and by the way, but you know what, let me jj more than you think his brother owns part of the grizzlies, yeah, I don't.

I don't think people have brought that up, no, I don't think I don't think that's been reported yet. It's crazy now that it's night and day, right, Josh is a completely different guy than um. jared is right and i know jared better than josh and jared are all cya you know that's all he knows you know he looks like that with jared kushner which people don't realize everyday come in to the oval office and talks to his father-in-law, his father-in-law yells at him and yells at him and calls him an idiot and all that, so he's just trying to hold on to a sense of crazy, I mean, you know if you're working.

If that's your father-in-law and he's the one you're working with or because you know I have to feel some sympathy. I was on Espn radio early this morning with Keyshawn and Jay Will and you know one of the things I said. For them, when we were talking about this, that was when the coveted thing first happened and the league closed and you saw this, really, it's widespread throughout the country, people in very unfortunate situations, you know, no work, no food all types. of things lack of ppe and time and time again you saw nba and wnba players step forward in their community george floyd is murdered and since then you have seen nba and wnba players step forward a and again in their communities um what they're mentioning in regards to having a professional athlete face in general or you know a specific league is really interesting and I've never thought about it that way, but I think there has to be better communication. .

If we're going to do that, you totally have to let people know what we're doing and what we want and we can control that narrative. I think the issue is one of the problems and you mentioned this, it's just been widespread. By this administration across the board, any credible institution is simply being torn down, so we are at a tipping point where we cannot trust the information that we are getting and that is terrifying, yes it is and it is. It has long been. I mean, he put Adam and I and a bunch of other landowners and commissioners on this commission to open the country back up.

The sports commission had a call that was more ceremonial than anything else and that was it, you know, he said kindly. stuff about all of us lasted about an hour because there were 23 people and then it all goes downhill and when it comes to science, I mean you pick two people, dr. burks and dr. fauci, and they are supposed to. the scientific information about their working group and then you denigrate them every chance you get so again you know and then when people question them you retweet that it's true it's crazy you know it's Alice in Wonderland wonders we go down the rabbit hole a lot of different ways but to lebron's point and you mentioned it you know what

tommy

is working on november 3rd baby you just have to vote mark let me ask you a question regarding this , but also with kind of the league in general, because jj and I have talked a lot about this, the difference between NBA owners and other sports owners, um, and tell me, obviously, if I'm mischaracterizing this of somehow, but it seems like most mba owners, do you know if you call it "self-made"?

They started a company, they did this, they bought the team unlike a lot of owners in other sports or maybe they inherited the team from a father, they inherited the father's business and they bought a team. Because of that or whatever, do you feel like there's a difference in how mba owners are handling things now versus because of that or are there other reasons? I don't think it's because of where they came from or anything I'll give away. You have a couple of reasons, like when I tried to buy a baseball team about 10 years ago, they told me there was no chance, right, they didn't want it to be another George Steinbrenner and then who was the guy that was in charge of baseball? ?

I forget his name now um, but anyway they said no, this guy handles it with an iron fist. You know you work even though you may own a team. You work for him and you know I've been told stories about him giving and taking draft picks. allow and disallow deals that would never happen in the NBA and that whether it was David Stern or Adam they just wouldn't even consider, then you have it, you know it and you see it in Also in other leagues where it's the shield or the logo or the league in yeah what dominates, where with the NBA we are a player driven league, you know, you see it in our cell at the topsalary, it's basically 50 50. but the most important thing is that you know, particularly with the advent of social media.

We're on JJ's podcast right now. Each and every player builds a brand and now you know the kids come and you know the kids in high school have their own brands, right? I have followers on Instagram and tick tock and YouTube or wherever and they are literally brands and you know kids have an identity outside of their sports. I guess that's the best way to say it if you look at all the other sports if you think about your favorite football team, besides quarterback and another skill position, you probably couldn't name anyone if you saw the guys, other than them, They must be soccer players, they are big, while you know because the 2k on social media can name you, you know? the 15, if not 17, guys from the pelicans or the mavericks and that's unique to basketball, on top of that, you have a level of confidence, you know you saw the lack of confidence in major league baseball, guys, I'm sure you know to mbpa.

She's doing a good job and Michelle is a big step up from where she used to be and that has allowed us to build a level of trust that I don't think exists in other leagues, just because of the nature of how things are. are gathered here, has the league and the owners specifically, uh, you know, you guys have done an incredible job, honestly, of supporting us and allowing us to use our voices, whether it's on social media or through traditional media or in the world of podcasts. Adam has also done an incredible job, I mean, there's a level of let's call it liberality that didn't exist with David um when he was commissioner, but to get back to the question of social justice, uh, for whatever reason, it seems, and so do you. you mention it.

It seems like a human rights issue has become a partisan issue, so the owners say we support them, but in reality there are some owners whose political beliefs don't necessarily align with the political beliefs of the players and those owners. then they are giving to Trump's re-election campaign, how can you square with that as a player? How do you square that? Yes, I have no problem with welcoming you to the United States. You know, look, you don't want to just talk to people who agree with you all the time, that just extends the bubble we live in, right, you have to be able to talk to other people, like most of the time I do interviews, They're not on CNN or MSNBC, but that's because it doesn't make sense to me. talking to people I already agree with, I'd rather stick with Sean Hannity or Tucker Carlson because those are the people who won't agree with me and I'll attack them because I don't give any rights, you know, I'm not here just to try to saying what I believe, what I believe, is a fact and that is one of the challenges we have, although as a league, you know, and particularly for this movement and trying to impact change, you can't speak. for the people who already love you, you know, when you talk to Pelicans fans, you know what they're going to think when you talk to the fans en masse, I know what they're going to think, you know, it's when you talk to everyone else and non-believers and when we have owners who don't necessarily agree with that, okay, right, I don't have a problem with that objectively.

I was going to say that the way you deal with where you make your media appearances and all that, I think that gives credibility to you talking to right-wing voters, they'll mean more if you're criticizing Trump or you're saying what you think. whether it's because he's not like some pom-pom-waving liberal who's I'm just going to say that I support the Democrats, see if Trump does something right, like when he did prison reform and I had the opportunity to talk to Alice Johnson and be on a panel about police reform with her and she praised what happened with police reform. then you know it's like that, you know it's not that he can't sometimes be right, he can be right and if you don't, even if it's someone I vehemently disagree with on 99 of the things, if I don't recognize that one percent, then I lose my credibility, I lose my authenticity, you know?

So you have to be honest when someone you disagree with does something right. Okay, they're allowed to do something well and that's a good thing, but it also gives you credibility to call it out. It highlights the other things you disagree with and gives you credibility with the audience that usually just agrees with them and disagrees with me. You mentioned lack of leadership earlier and one of those recurring questions that always comes up in the pod. These are the essential qualities of leadership and you know you are a leader. He has been surrounded by great leaders in sports and in business right now in the United States.

What are the qualities we need in a president? Honesty Authenticity An interest When talking to people who you disagree with, the ability to understand the changes in society both on a human and technological level because the world is changing and how all that affects our position globally, you have to be able to do a lot. of desperation, putting disparate parts together and understanding where we need to go as a nation and being able to talk to 339 million people knowing that probably about half of them will not agree with you, you know that's the skill set, but that's what the leaders have to do. do and uh and as a leader I've made a lot of serious mistakes and I've tried to learn from them and I've done some things that are right and that's part of being a leader have you ever heard the term intellectual humility?

Yes of course. Yes, I have never experienced it because I am obviously never wrong, but yes, you are aware that it exists. I've read about it, but I couldn't relate to it at all. Oh man, that's funny. I just always go back to Humility, man, and think about you, you know the best, the best leaders I've ever been around. I mentioned my father the other day and you know humility is a key component of leadership, but when it comes to intellectual humility, I think. That's one of the biggest challenges we all have as humans, right, we want to be right, we don't want to be wrong, it's ingrained in us since we were kids, yeah, especially if you're really competitive, like being an MBA. athlete to be successful in business you have to be super super competitive um, I know you are, I am and sometimes it's hard to be humble, but that's one of the values ​​that the world has imposed on us by having children at 16 years old.

Eldest daughter, I feel honored every minute of every day for some reason, when my eldest daughter turned 15, my wife and I became very stupid, so you talk about intellectual humility, we gained a lot, great, before we leave this back. In this part of the conversation I want to touch on something you said about white privilege. I'm quoting you here. Part of the problem is that we white people get defensive, especially when we hear the term white privilege. It immediately puts us on the defensive and, first of all, I agree with you when I first heard the term, I intuitively knew it existed, but when I first heard the term four or five years ago, when it started to become a thing very common that it was part of the conversation.

My immediate defensive reflexes increased. Well, I want to ask you why do you think it's so difficult for white people to recognize privilege and also just recognize the systems in place that have suppressed black communities for generations? I mean, you first. You know white people don't talk about race, you know how many times in your life, if you know you were a kid or you know, when you were at Duke or you got into the league, did you sit down and talk about race? Well, I want to interrupt you there because I actually did it and well, listen, that's why I always say basketball is the best thing that ever happened to me as a human being because I don't know if I would have done it.

I grew up in Tennessee and Virginia. I grew up in the Woods, I never had neighbors, you know, if it wasn't for sports, if it wasn't for being around people who weren't like me or who came from a different background or looked different, think about it, I wouldn't have those conversations. about the kids you went to high school with in a little high school right in the sticks how often do they talk about race not very often yeah i mean when i grew up in pittsburgh and where i grew up i had some racist neighbors racist neighbors oh god Oh my gosh, just the things I remember and I was like the only Jewish kid where I lived and you know, one day I got into a fight and this kid just walked away and started hitting me and I said no.

I know why we're fighting, but we're fighting with him and he started calling me like and all these, you know all these words and I had to go to my dad and ask him why you never grew up, white people, Jewish people talk. about those things, black people talk about those things, but as white people we don't talk about the white race, you know, we just don't, we haven't had to have that conversation, we haven't had to talk about that and because of what we really don't we connect, so let's get to your second question, we don't really connect with African Americans, the black experience in America.

You know, he took me as the second part of what I said in terms of white privilege. The second thing we do after we get defensive is we make up equivalences, right, we try to say I can't be racist because, right, because, and I would know I would say a lot of reasons why and other people say a lot of reasons why. for which we express it. in the context of ourselves, that as white people we're just not going to do well and it wasn't until I had more experiences and look, it took me later in life.

I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't learn this when I was 25 or even 45, right, it took me a lot of mistakes to figure this out because I always thought that treating people equally was more like a mathematical equation. You know if I treated them xyz way, if I traded jj

redick

xyz way and I traded an African American friend the way I was always going to treat them exactly the same because that's what equality means but it doesn't really respect the equity, it does not respect the differences in how we grew up and that is particularly important. when it comes to the investments that I make or the people we hire or the people that work for our companies or my investment companies, it's true, because you can't treat everyone the same, everyone is different and when you try to treat everyone everyone equally, you don't do it.

If you don't respect those differences, you don't respect the uniqueness of individuals and you also miss a lot of opportunities because, particularly in minority communities, they are so underinvested that there are a lot of opportunities that you miss by trying to treat everyone like a mathematical equation like if they were all exactly the same. How instrumental it was to own the Mavs and be around NBA players and help you understand and have these conversations because I know you look, you're one of them, you're probably one of the ones. of the owners og that had relationships with their players that came in, I was like the young guy that it seems like the owners and the players didn't necessarily like me, especially in our league, they didn't have relationships like they have now and yes, and that's one of the things that I've changed I'm not getting intellectual humility, I'm going right to that, you know, because when I got to the league it was like go sit in your suite, what the hell are you doing hanging out with the players and getting to know them and be your friends.

You know I was 41, so I was right about your age. Wow, wow, you know what you just gave me a little motivation to maybe add a couple more years to the end of my career. it's already there um but you know you get the point and to answer your question it would be a completely different human right because look at my life I'm the luckiest person in the world. End of story, you know better. I have to worry about earning my next nickel. I don't have to worry about my children or their children and their financial future.

You know, I just have to try to be a good dad, which you know is the hardest job, but without having bought the Mavs. um I wouldn't have the exposure to all the different cultures um globally and you know, get to have some very close African American friends. I still have black friends. You know, I still would have had black friends, but I don't think so. I would see the variety of backgrounds that I see today because you know guys, you know if they make the league or they try to get into the league, they just come from every possible background and you see so many cultures and so many experiences. and when you talk to them, there are things that you learn that I wouldn't know otherwise, we're going to get into basketball now, I think, but your team, this team is a perfect example of that, you guys know who you are. everywhere, yeah, I mean, I just want to win, I don't care, I was, you know, we had three years, four years out of the playoffs, nothing more painful basketball-wise, it was horrible, yeah, and then you know Obviously you know with luca and getting kp. and a bunch of guys that came in that trade that really helped propel us forward after the 4th game of the mavs clipper series you tweeted don't try to compile in reference toLuca, don't try to compare him with others, he is paving his own path, what is his ceiling?

I mean we've talked about him a lot this week on elpod what his ceiling is it just depends really depends on if he can shoot like jj

redick

or shoot like lebron seriously you know because that's a big range you know lebron has the best basketball IQ in the game, top three basketball in a brand q brand, I just want to interrupt you, there are only like five or ten people in the history of the game that can shoot like me, okay, go on, come on, intellectual humility, Are we talking about basketball? Yes, we are talking about basketball. um, yeah, so you know, but you.

I know what I'm saying, right, because there are certain guys who have a basketball IQ that gives them an advantage, they're already two chess pieces ahead and they automatically make their teammates better. Lucas falls into that category and he's only 21 and so part of his advantage is not just for himself, but it's the fact that he makes everyone around him better, he knows where a guy is going to be, he's Like you know you've been how many times you've been on the court and you just busted your butt to get open because that's what you're right, you work and you move and you get open and then you know you don't have a real point guard to get you that ball. or get it right.

You know, on the move, so you can shoot. Lucas knows how to do that and he has the size. You know a 6-1 point guard can have quick points, but he won't see the entire fourth c on everyone he has to find. passing angles luca has the ability to really see the six seven over players and make those passes and then he's 230 235, I mean, he's a linebacker and that's why he can get the spots on the fields that they give him in the court that gives him a pass. lane and even if he gets bent or pressured and there's contact, he can still make plays, whether it's passing or scoring, you know, and I'll give you another thing that's really identifiable in terms of advantages after last season, I was like Luca , What are they? you're going to add to your game and I do this with all of our guys and he's like I need a left hand right I need to be able to finish with my left and because last year you know like when you first came into the game and we're going full speed ahead and it's It's new having to go so fast and you see rookies all the time particularly coming down for a layup trying to tackle someone and they get him off the backboard and he goes 15 feet back to the right and he would do that a lot, particularly with his left hand. , this year he's finishing in the top three in the NBA in terms of finishing around the basket, that's how hard he worked to try to improve his game and that's what the greats do well, and if he continues to improve, I mean, There is no limit to what you can achieve if we continue to put the right pieces around you.

When did you realize on draft night that this was happening 10 15 minutes before our pick was it because we would have lost the pick or the team behind us could have just added a name, that's when we knew it was done and you and did you make any sense in saying that this was a possibility like you had explored it did you know who you knew? Yeah, obviously we had explored it, yeah, and that's what we were willing to make a trade to try to move up and get it and actually mortgage, you know, whatever we had to mortgage. but that doesn't mean I wasn't terrified, I was terrified, I mean, I can't tell you how many boy scouts have said, you know he's the next whoever and you can be confident and feel good about it and you know it even the first one. game that you have confidence in, um, but it's still scary, but we actually played our first two preseason games in China and, um, against the sixth or the sixers, oh yeah, yeah, you're with the sixers, so yeah, etc watching him play um yeah so you knew he had a chance to be really special uh quick side story I'm going to talk about myself for a second so when we were in China when we were in China um for that trip uh the The first night we got there we practiced and after practice I organized this dinner at um, I think it was a Joel Rubichon restaurant, a friend of mine was the maitre d' there in Shanghai, so probably 10 guys came with their wives and I bought everything. the wine was a very expensive meal and then we went out to go to a bar and I think between the alcohol and a sea urchin I had in the restaurant I just wasn't feeling well the next day so I got sick, they sent me home After practice, I stayed in my bed for like 24 hours, I didn't touch a ball, I didn't get out of my bed and then we played the first game with you and I shot 10 out of 10.

It was the best night of shooting. my career burns sea urchins and you've been eating sea urchins ever since oh i can't even do this the thought of sea urchins just makes my stomach turn you know hey let jj have the best career night in an exhibition game in china there you go while they boo you all the time by the way every time i touch that's right every time i touch the ball they throw me out um you said with luca you said you know him you realize that he was a generational talent after like 10 games, but you talk about kind of a draft, the hesitation or not being 100% confident when he surprised you, I guess you were surprised by the initial success and how easy the game is for him because it seems so easy , Yeah.

We had 100% confidence, but you never really know because otherwise we wouldn't have done the deal, but you know, once you went 10 games into 20 games and you started to see, you know it was still a little quick for him, but the game was slowing down so fast right where I could see the game and I was still two steps ahead um and guys the reaction from the players was like oh my gosh you know you know I want to play with this guy put me on the court with him. and you know, that's all you need to hear jj, when did you realize in China?

So right away, yeah, it was pretty clear, it was pretty clear what happened with Luca, I guess some people thought maybe it wouldn't translate from Europe, but into an Envy on an NBA court with as much space as you guys, He can go wherever he wants and it is not necessarily with speed, but with the great brand of his handling. You mentioned how big he is, he just comes to his spot where he plays. his own pace and in China I saw it right away I saw it right away we're going through a total change in the NBA right now so if you think about the five best guys in the NBA they say kawhi lebron um hardin right what's the similarity between all of them none of them are small and fast all of them are beasts they are big and strong and none of them you know that lebron obviously super athletic kawhi is athletic but you don't think about either of them one of them is very fast, especially Lebron at this point of their career, but they can pick up the ball, make plays with excellent intelligence, you know, make a shot, but get to the rim when they have space and are powerful at finishing through contact. the change that we're going through right now and I think it's going to be interesting to see how the draft plays out in the future because you know it used to be, you go big, you can't go wrong with a big guy and I think that's going to happen. change because if a guy can't get you into the offense and create his own offense for himself, it's going to be very difficult for him, I mean if you look at Lucas' draft, like the fact that Ayton was one and and luca was a couple, you know, a few picks after him, Bagley Bagley got too poor, right, poor, kings fan, four kings.

We talked about this with Kevin Love earlier this week on the podcast, but for some reason, I really like it. Luca James comparison I feel like in many ways they are the same player yes, in many ways yes they are the same player am I out of that? no no you are not talking about lebron james or james harden harden it is as if they were layups free throws back threes and incredible passers yes he can defend when he wants right strong he can rebound when he wants he can pass when he needs to really you know it depends on the team you surround them in the role they're asked to play, you know, and with James he's phenomenal with the role he's asked to play, he has to carry that team from a scoring perspective and everyone else just sits around him and tries to be athletic and push. the ball, particularly because now you're so small, whereas with Luca we put more shooters around him and that creates even more space for him to get to the rim without having to settle in and he's not as good, I mean, James Harden was.

He also wasn't a great three-point shooter when he first arrived, so I expect Luca to improve at that level, which will open up his game even more. Lucas. You know you obviously had Dirk there forever. He is one of my favorite players of all time. Actually, uh, you also had Nash, uh, I'm going to mention Finley Sean Marion, uh, Jay Kidd, who you had for a while at the end of his career, what are the commonalities with these great guys and the best players? ? What are the common points? effort effort concentrate and work well working on your craft wanting to be the best and putting in the time a lot of guys have talent but you know father time is undefeated just at some point your body isn't where it used to be and you can't just get by with athletics, so you have to know the game, work on the game and add it to your toolbox, and the great ones do it all day, every day, that's what they think about all the time, you know, like I said, you know what I mentioned to you.

Luca about what he's going to add to his game, you know, Sean Marion, 10 years on Dirk, 15 years later, I could ask them the same questions and they would give me an answer and they did and they put in the time that Dirk, you know, The most disciplined guy I've ever been with. You know, the day he started working out there were no sweets, you know, no sugar, no fried foods, no ice cream, no anything, and I know you do a lot of the same things too, right? You can only go as far as your body allows you and as you get older, you know that the things that were easy you have to make up for with Basketball IQ and other ways of doing it, and that's what the greats recognize and deal with. and work itself, I won't put myself, I wouldn't put myself in the category of the greats, but I would say yes, you did well, I mean, yes, I mean, the numbers don't lie when you combine volume and efficiency.

I mean, I'm there, I'm in the conversation, I'm not in the top five, I don't think I'm in the top five, but I'm somewhere. I'm hovering in the tennis range. I'm hovering in that range. Uh, wait. Wait, I've got Ray Allen on the line. Wait, no Ray is in the top five. Be very clear about this. um no, but like in the offseason, I take a little time off from basketball. I stay fit, obviously, I still eat the same way. I always eat, but when I start my basketball workouts in the off-season, it's like every day except Saturday, I have a routine where I take 342 shots every Sunday and I stop traveling.

You know, obviously, you can't travel right now. but in a normal offseason I stop traveling, there's no vacation after that and that takes me until training camp and then once the season starts, you know, I have my practice routine, I have my game day routine. game, I have my day off. shooting routine is and it's we have to do it is now I'm going to continue like you know, probably 11 years of that now, where I've been the same way since my junior year, so let me ask you how much you've had to tune your shot to size. that you have been getting older in the last three years.

I probably lift more legs now than I lift my upper body and that's because you don't have that natural lift that you used to have. I have that exposure at 36 I don't have the explosiveness that nothing had before I was 36 and I still go out and photograph three that I used when we could I played pick up all the time and that's the difference you know I just have to work I get my legs and I remind myself to bend my knees a lot more than I used to, so it's just part of the exercise of that adjustment, but if you don't have those routines, you don't recognize them, you think you can. just making do with what's always worked and that's the difference between the guys that play, you know, 14, 15, 16 years old and the guys that fight, yeah, this is what I try to impress on the young guys that they know like me. .

I have gotten older in my career. I've been like it was everything. It all comes down to routine. Routine and preparation eliminate anxiety. Routine and preparation give you confidence. The routine in preparation gives you longevity. It all comes down to your point about Dirk and Dirk. I would put Ray Allen like those guys are legendary with the diligence and work ethic of him and I think that and the mental toughness of the basketball IQ like you have to be. smart to be great, those are the two separations for me, talent and natural athletic ability, whatever, those are the two separations with a lot of the guys around you right now, let them figure it out for you.

Yes, I don't want to leave. about basketball, but look, we talk, we havemessenger that will leave me in me. coconut water and then um I'm going with Amazon okay second you're going to get another brand oh okay let's take it tick-tock absolutely tick-tock damn I love me sometimes I was holding it I thought Nobody was going to take it, man. because you guys have to kill time on the desert island, yes you like stupid little videos, what do you think is going to happen to tiktok? I think they are sold. The question is: Does Microsoft screw it up?

Yes, will that change any part of the product? They just won't be if they're smart, but it won't be easy for them to take over because the AI ​​that makes the ticking so convincing is the AI ​​and the computer vision that the bike dance has that the owner has, that's what that makes. Awesome because they don't just look at who you follow and all that, they look to see what you actually watch and like if you start watching basketball highlights they will just feed you basketball highlights no matter what else you do. it's the smartest app ever my third my third pick similar to jj's aveeno pick is yelp i'm obsessed obsessed obsessed with yelp i've tried isla like how cool is that yeah that's okay because every time i leave this island the first place I'll go, I'll know exactly where to eat exactly where to shop, that's so weak, Tommy.

The funny thing is that I have never left a shout comment, I don't even have an account. just don't ever just keep going I'm the same tommy it means yelp all the time it's such a terrible app it's so terrible it's just terrible it's terrible sorry tommy you can't trust yelp um and I also mark something else every time we do this draft, draft parameters change so when I made my draft board this morning I didn't know we were going to be stranded on a desert island so I had to do it. I'm having to make some adjustments on the planet lady, just make your own.

I guess rezzy making a dinner reservation isn't a very good app, yeah I'm a desert island okay so I'm going to do it. I'm going to pivot here, so my food app is going to be caviar, it's my favorite food delivery service, um caviar, yeah, it's cool, damn, you do it big, yeah, and then, and then, fourth, I'll need something to help me with the stress of being stranded. this island so I'm going to go with the call map which is a meditation and sleep app that I use and it's phenomenal there you go okay call okay four I can't believe this isn't gone yet .

I go to YouTube. better the best search engine on the Internet is a great choice it is a great choice it was my fifth choice but now I don't have it right brand you have two better, I'm going with Chrome because you need a browser, okay? otherwise probably google news because I'm a news fanatic too, it's all fang actions, it's all faith, I mean it's amazing, netflix, amazon, google, very practical, I love it, okay, I'm the one Last one, I think I'm taking Spotify, yeah, there you go. I need something that's good, that's good, okay, jj, close it.

I completely lost this draft. I'm looking at your list guys and just practicality, you chose a wine app as your site, I thought we were just doing. like our five favorite apps and rezzy, this is why you should look at some of the things I have on my draft board right now, they're like nonsense, I don't even know what to do anymore, okay, you know. I'm going on safari just because I need to, yeah I need something to look at on the internet, so no one chose Twitter. Why is that so hectic? You know, yeah, Mark.

Does Twitter provide you with any benefits at the moment? Yes, I mean you. you want to know what other people think you want, you know you want to be from a tech for tech stuff, it's really cool, so if I want to follow people who are big in ai, big in robotics and big in healthcare, then it's really useful if for Sports, it's a waste, the most useful feature of Twitter for me, for example, why I still use it quite a bit. I mean, I have to use it, I guess being who you know, being a public figure and having a podcast like I need to be. there, but the thread feature is my favorite thing because yeah, to your point, when you follow a certain group of people in a specific profession and you get these, you know, 20 threads of tweets that you get all this information from in one place is like that for me it is really useful, yes, a real question, the rest is problematic, since it can make you so angry, right, that it can only get you in trouble, right, yes, exactly, uh, mark, thank you.

Thank you so much for coming on the podcast for just being you, um and uh, and I can't thank you enough for the time it was fun, man, thanks for having me on, I really enjoyed it, great questions, lots and lots of depth. lots of encouragement, you know, broaden and deepen, that's all you can finish, that's what we do, okay, thanks, see you soon guys, okay, bye.