¿Es más peligroso hablar de AMLO que de "Los señores del narco"?: Anabel Hernández

It is a pleasure to have Elena Chávez, author of King of Cash, here in the studio today and also a pleasure to have the journalist Anabel Herná

ndez

with us. Who wrote the prologue of this book, we were very interested in reading it calmly because it came to us well. days What a pleasure Elena Thank you for being with us Good morning Anabel Thank you for being here I received the book when you started giving some interviews a month or so ago And I said I don't want to read it in a hurry I want to read it calmly I already have it I read and before talking about the book I ask them and I ask them both and you also with the experience you have as a book author, they are blocking the exhibition, well, the presentation of the book because Well, there are already three places where they have canceled us, no And That definitely means censorship to me.

They haven't been able to present it. The presentation is scheduled for this Wednesday, but hey. Until now we don't have the place. Because I'm telling you, they have canceled the three properties that we already had set aside and well, we are looking for some strange space. Because also judging by And we talked about it with you a couple of weeks, judging by the sales that have been made online, it is a very successful book, a very successful best-selling book but it cannot be presented in Mexico, we would have to say that Indeed, each person, each business, each company has the freedom to decide if they want to present one of a particular, the issue is that these three individuals, which is the World Trade Center, which is the bookstore, the basement, and which is Camino Real, had already said yes, it is not Beforehand they said no and it would be their right to say No I don't want I'm not interested etcetera etcetera But they had already said yes they had already committed to a date in the World Trade Center after the publisher makes public that the presentation of the book will be there that the World Trade Center Cancels without an understandable justification, then the basement bookstore where I myself have presented books as controversial as the uncomfortable drug lords, such as the Accomplices of the President etcetera etcetera, Well, they had said yes that okay, what he presented in the book and it is after the tutorial or elenas in public that it is the presentation of the book that they suddenly say Sorry, they are tying our hands, we can't do anything we have to Cancel and then finally we get a room with This particular one, which is El Camino Real, well, a room is being rented, there is a payment involved, it is a business, finally, no, and they say yes, it's okay, we will do the event, and it is after once again that Elena makes it public that it will finally be there. presentation that this information arrives again this phone call not from the Camino Real saying to the publisher Oh no Excuse me no it is not possible I had never seen this Now it turns out that it is more dangerous to talk about the president of the republic than about the drug lords be very careful with what is happening and then there will be no presentation, they are not going to go to the International Book Fair or they are going to have to wait until the end to go to the final, yes Well, there are still a couple of days left, but there will be, there will be because Well, we can't, let's see, yes, it is very difficult for me to understand that someone is putting pressure on them and I don't know if that someone is the presence of the Republic, if it is the Ministry of the Interior, if it is I don't know who they are putting pressure on so that it doesn't happen. present a book a book by the most already read already criticized already commented a very successful book it takes me a lot of work luckily and I hope it will be presented soon and well a book that starts from Good one starts some criteria that starts from a criterion and develops like Andrés Manuel López Obrador and his group built an entire system of financial engineering based on Cash, hence the name and also documented and more than documented, I would say told Elena because they are going to criticize you that you do not have documents that you do not have proof and you say the Why not a book that describes your words, a servility of those around the president, a servility that reaches ignominy and a behavior in that group of if they discover you, you blame yourself and stay silent financial engineering based on Cash serbilism that arrives to ignominy And if they catch you, blame yourself That's the case That's the case Yes definitely and all these people that I talk about in the book Well, they are in power and they are in the main positions where money is handled Alejandro Adriana Montiel, who is the welfare officer, Marcelo Ebrard, well, we already know what this is, everything starts with Marcelo, there is a chapter paragraph that is definitely called like this, Marcelo Mario, Mario Delgado.

I'm normally the one who we're going to talk about, what the president always managed, no. Because also, Well, everyone knows, no, I'm not saying it, everyone knows that he is an extremely distrustful man, so he made a very small group that was the one that served him but also Ciro served because of all those who are there now, this one has a lot of money, they even have real estate. I mean, they tell me, Hey, you don't have proof and they question me and I tell them, just look at their asset statements and you will realize that they got assets and properties of jewel cars in the middle of the campaign when they had no money when it is assumed that there were no resources and that they were in an extremely austere campaign.

Where did they get all those resources from? There are passages that you narrate knowing that you have seen how they were given new Suburban trucks in the years in which they were supposedly against the current of everything, they were against the current of the Vicente Fox government of the Felipe Calderón government, they were from the opposition and yet the resources were flowing. We are going to talk about that now that we return and I want to ask you, Anabel, what is the limit? ethical journalism of someone like Elena who lived her personal life Because that's also how you tell it from the beginning with someone very close to Andrés Manuel López Obrador like César Yáñez What is the ethical limit in the narration in the description of a case of a case like this Of what they were in the end, not only your personal experiences that you can tell, you can tell them in a novel, but also those of your partner.

Much of the information in this book is Elena's testimonies and reflections about her partner. There is a limit. There I leave you the question for now that we return, give us a brief answer, we pause and I think that here we would have to begin by reflecting that in Roman law in Roman criminal law, which is the essence of criminal law in Mexico and that in other In some parts of the world there has been the role of the witness since the ancient Romans, the witness who witnesses criminal acts, incorrect acts, and who has the moral, ethical, in some cases, even judicial, criminal duty of testimonial to give his testimony, let's see, we leave it, we leave it there, we return with with that theme and with other moments of this book The King of Cash, the book that he is making that was already a bestseller but has nowhere to present, incredible Mexico 2022 and a book cannot be presented, it cannot have a presentation event we do pause we return we are left with a question for Anabel Herná

ndez

Who wrote the prologue of this book The King of Cash you say in the prologue Anabel that Elena is you say and thanks it is and it is thanks to Elena the first insider that is to say the first who tells from the inside the first insider of the closest circle to publicly break the silence that we have this first x-ray of how money was moved in López Obrador's team Since at least what year Elena since 2002-2003 since they started as head of government because they started with Los Mochis when they were 20 years old and I told you what is the limit for someone who lived in their personal life since from the first line it is said that the author Elena was a partner for many years with César Yáñez who was López's great companion Obrador for many years there is a journalistic limit of what you can or should be able to tell and not And you were talking about the witness there we are left with the value in Roman law in the criminal law of the witness On the one hand when you are wanting to investigate a crime it is the perpetrator the alleged culprit is the victim there are the Witnesses but who in turn were participants in the crime who become collaborators of justice and there are the Witnesses who for one reason or another were eyewitnesses of what happens and are fundamental in Any investigation to discover the truth in any country of the modern civilized democratic world The Chronicle Elena's testimony would have to be the beginning of a criminal investigation where this testimony can be concatenated with different events of which all Mexicans have also been public witnesses In other words, they are events that have been there before our eyes and that after reading Elena's book, one then begins to realize that 20 things begin to fall, but one begins to concatenate the events and say, Oh wow, here is a series of indications of signs that They should be investigated and they should be investigated mainly Ciro because unfortunately This is not an isolated case What do you mean by they should be investigated you who have worked on the subject for so many years you who have been in so many controversies should be investigated who the authorities because why journalism, for example, the electoral authorities, I am referring to Mexico 2022, almost the attorney general's office, the reflection, the theoretical part of what you say, who, general of the republic, the secretariat of the public service and the electoral institute, the attorney general's office of the republic for the alleged diversion of public resources the sect the public function for the alleged enrichment of public officials and for the diversion that they allegedly committed And of course the Electoral Institute to really investigate how the presidential campaigns of Andrés Manuel López Obrador were financed is an issue that has been pending Since the issue of Fox's friends, since the issue of Monexgate, there have been various financing scandals for presidential campaigns.

It is not the first. I wish it were the last, but there continues to be this impunity and this failure. Investigate in depth what happens in this financing. undue illegals because we will continue to have a contaminated democracy I read a paragraph towards the end of the book very hard books Lena and I know that some have criticized you saying you write this book out of personal pain out of spite for the end of your relationship with César Yáñez but the book It's much, much more than that, Leo makes me sad, it saddens me to write this episode of my life with a man.

You are referring to César Yáñez who did not keep his feet firmly on the ground. If he had done so, he would not have been corrupted. He would not have allowed himself to succumb to it. power, money, legolatry, ambition and the pleasures enjoyed by the new millionaires of the so-called fourth transformation, the couple who said that I will set the example of humility, President López Obrador and his wife Beatriz Gutiérrez live modestly in the National Palace, others Those in the highest hierarchy in Las Lomas de Chapultepec, Santa Fe or Polanco, it is brutal, he is calling all of them corrupt, including the president, the president's wife, your ex-partner today, officials, undersecretary, the Ministry of the Interior, the president's private secretary, Marcelo Ebrard, pre-candidate for the presidency.

Mario, well, president, the brunette is making him corrupt, they are corrupt, Hero, the truth is, they are going to tell you that you don't prove anything to them in the book, well, they, they, they will say, okay, they haven't even said it, no. Minds lied, none of them have denied anything. no no they don't want to get involved because they know it's the truth because no they can't say no when I'm perfectly narrating everything they did and to their face I can tell them Ciro so this this book let me tell you I didn't write it nor is it dedicated to César Yáñez, this book is dedicated to the Mexicans, Ciro is dedicated to them so that they know who is governing us.

So that they can see what kind of person is in the National Palace with a narrative that is not real but because with Cash With that money they damaged the subway and with that money that they took from the subway people are now suffering from a totally destroyed transportation system financial engineering based on the case that it is and that it is not and I can assure you and I can assure everyone that This is not it, it is not from the past, it is currently the same system that they are carrying out because right now they have all the power, they have absolutely everything they can move and it is not them, it is not this in the case of the president, well let him be the main character Well no. he likes accountability he doesn't like transparency So we Mexicans don't really know where they are getting all that money that they are moving for one thing or another and for their works and they take money from the poor now they do take money from the poor and and and and and and and those who want to be in office Well, with money they come and they give them this is like in five of the six years that Marcelo Ebrard was head of government in the last one no longer or in part the last no when he lost the presidential candidacy to López Obrador he did not leave of never influencing money and large amounts of money for the López Obrador movement and you describe it and give a series of dates details of enormous plausibility I don't know if I'm right no no it doesn't matter but as a reader as a reader who more or less lived That time that has memories of that time seems very plausible.

Well, it does help because the money came directly from the government. It was still the Federal District of the government from 2006 to 2012, when Marcelo governed, it was the hardest stage and where I got the most.the government of the Federal District It was taken from other parts but from here in Mexico City it was terrible Ciro the transportation network with our taxes that is, Marcelo gave the president he paid him with Cash for the protection he gave him when what happened in Tláhuac and this lynching of Tláhuac of course and then the thing about how he paid him.

Let's see, let's take a break and on another controversial topic for me, ask the author of the prologue for Anabel Hernández the way in which Elena treats Beatriz Gutiérrez Müller enters parts of his personal life his personal relationship with a guy in this case the guy was the head of government of the Federal District his name was Andrés Manuel López Obrador and I ask you the question again in the same sense as a few moments ago it is his personal life This is personal life we ​​are going to pause they are called bumpers so that people stay with us skip the cut and come back we return with that point that of Beatriz Gutiérrez Müller we stay again when we went to pause question for Anabel Hernández who writes the prologue of this book The king of Cash there are descriptions and narrations by Elena about the private life of a woman in this case the woman is called Beatriz Gutiérrez Müller, a woman who according to this book was an official of the government of the Federal District and according to Elena began to have a personal relationship with the boss of government Andrés Manuel López Obrador a relationship that even occurred when Andrés Manuel López Obrador's wife was dying What is the limit to navigate you are journalists spoken about these issues you also talk about gender issues and so on it is the personal life of someone who can finally have a relationship with another person in studies in the standards of international journalism and investigations of some of the most important investigations into corruption that have been done in the world the papers of life what happens in the Private life of public officials that must be held accountable are important because they are events that later explain not only the fact of corruption itself but also help to understand a little about the psyche of the person who is holding power and it seems to me that, for example, in Mexico we have very specific and very Of course, you will remember that to understand the influence of Marta Sahagún with Vicente Fox, it was inevitable to talk about how that relationship had arisen, as well as how Marta had managed to advance Vicente Fox to the presidency, and it was important to talk about that because this personal relationship between Marta and Fox allowed a lot of acts of corruption by Marta's own children.

I don't remember the scandal. We were in Milenio magazine back in 1998 when a collaborator of Vicente Fox, the mustachioed González, who later died in an accident, told this story. Do you remember it was important to understand that about Vicente Foxy's ex-wife, etc. So at least there is a certain precedent and we are talking about '98, you will remember that the Vatican, the Roman route, is the one that finally decides the dissolution of the marriage, eh, through the church Between Elías de la concha and Vicente I had access to that document of the Roman route where there is a whole psychological analysis of personal information but thank you by understanding that document that I published at the time indigo report you can understand the part of Why Vicente Fox was the president because Beatriz Gutiérrez is saying, she is describing, not saying, describing in several moments how, being a collaborator, López Obrador begins to have a relationship and you also touch on the topic that at that time Andrés Manuel López Obrador's wife Rocío was alive It's still very hard That's good Definitely Yes, it is a reality and let me tell you that at that time, Beatriz herself made sure that everyone did not find out because it was a rumor, it was a rumor, but she herself made sure that everyone knew that she was the partner of the sir, what do I need?

At that time I was very vulnerable due to my wife's illness and since Beatriz managed the social communication resources, she had a handle to enter and leave to see the head of government without any problem and that bothered everyone, everyone who was there. close to the head of government at that time, today the president, so what I tell is only the truth. It is curious that Marta, according to what also comes out of the communication areas, was also responsible for the communication areas of Vicente Fox in the government of Guanajuato much more active much much more active than Beatriz Gutiérrez Müller was at least at least in public questions Thank you we are receiving comments ask the author That's how she is such a good citizen because she reported these events back then I don't know what it was back then that's what the question I understand perfectly At that moment it crossed my mind Ciro doing it But who was going to believe me was the most important candidate of the left we are talking you end the relationship according to the book in 2015 beginning of 2016 That's right So the only thing I did It was to leave my disagreement that I was not there because what they were doing was totally illegal.

I told César many times and that is how I describe it in the book and I told them, Hey, what your boss is doing. It's bad. It's wrong, they are abusing and in the book I leave it that way because several times because several times Imagine if I did something, who would believe me when I was the most important candidate, the only one, now I do it, being president of the republic when the moment is Maybe it's worse But I do it because it is necessary. Yes, a paragraph at the end because it is necessary to do it and you ask how much you enjoyed it.

Today you are the author who is denouncing that Cash when you were part of the circle. Nothing in any way has been anything. I was always a minor civil servant. I went to work in the government with a position as head of unit, it was not for civil servants, the Cash flowed and was safe. I don't know how much it reached your house that you shared, it was with me. I never gave Cash to César nor did he take it to the house or be brutal at all when you already narrate the end of your relationship with César and that César confesses to you that he has another relationship that he is going to stop living with you.

In fact you were already putting pressure on the end of the relationship but he asks you to sell the house where they lived and you give him 2 million pesos, César will deny that. Obviously, if one day the subject comes up, I don't think, I don't think I can deny it, but this Look, Ciro, I was always aware that the people in the case of the reporters or those who go on tours because they know other women and I talked about it many times with César and I told him when you have another relationship we break up there is no problem just let's talk and things stay as they are he didn't always do it He hid his relationships and when this and that happened I found out well through the National Network through Loret de Mola and when this came out well he asked me for that money because he had the person he married was in jail and it is a case to which we gave special follow-up.

In what year was Manuel 2016-2017 and it was an issue that infuriated the government of Puebla and the government of Rafael Moreno Valle. everything and the way in which she told us that she was treated in prison but it was a public case also at least in this program I don't know anything about her I don't know what I write in the book there are some comments that I already did this about another person who also helped them with Cash, but not only with almost their health, but you also narrate that he brought together businessmen from Puebla like this at the end of this conversation with the phrase with which you close the introduction of the book Leo Elena Chávez, Mexicans have the right to know the true personality of the new mafia of power or rather of the sect in power, authentic anecdotes of Andrés Manuel López Obrador and the large Clan that you see at hand, he recorded that as a measure security of my life and my family I have kept information I repeat I have kept information that will be made known to the public if by coincidence when publishing this book something were to happen to me if so I hold responsible the actors in this story who could feel evidenced Elena Chávez in the king of Cash comments about this Anabel I think and they mention it in my prologue and I think about it and I think about it today and I will think about it in the future that Elena's testimony is a brave testimony Elena Elena has had to break several barriers including her own because there are parts of the book that are painful where she herself was subjected to a certain amount of psychological abuse even where I can at least understand how distant reader of the book that evidently this is also a weight that was on her and you was a period that she had to overcome, regain her self-esteem, empower herself in the positive sense as a human being as a woman to obtain the strength to be able to tell this story when People who read the book will also be able to find many answers to what the audience asks, which is normal and obviously logical that they ask it in the book.

I will find many answers. And I do think that Elena had the option of leaving this anonymous, of telling this to her enemies. politicians from the president to the political parties and there while the hands and let this make them balls and yet what she makes is a decision to show her face that is to say I am here I am sure sure that Elena's testimony is the first of many and I would always like to simply close with this, I have heard other face-to-face testimonies from people who were direct witnesses of events that Elena also narrates in this book and we hope that these people get worse, overcome their own conflicts of interest, even overcome even perhaps their own, how to call it co-participations, certain doses of complicity and speak because today what is at stake is not only democracy in Mexico but being able to really clean up a system of corruption that exists in presidential campaigns that I don't have to say, no. it is unique to the 4t it is not unique to Andrés Manuel López Obrador there are various episodes but they contaminate democracy and at the end of the day the biggest loser is being a citizen well thank you very much to both of you I hope you can present the book I hope I can also present it in the Mexico City, the city of the freedoms of La Vanguardia, you cannot present a book in 2022, luckily, and I'm telling you, I told you in a phone call a month ago, I'm telling you on the air despite the tremendous attention we have received journalistically. with Andrés Manuel López Obrador since the beginning of 2001 and who practically never stopped there when the lawlessness in 2005 subsided despite that difficult situation we always found in César Díaz a very tough professional and for the same reason on my part towards him there has always been and there is a respect Beyond what the book says So it didn't stop hurting me a little because of what César Yáñez does but here is your work Congratulations good luck Thank you to present it soon I hope so I believe that it will be like this Thank you very much Elena tells us that we did not mention the case of another fundamental character in all this, who is Octavio Romero, he was the senior officer, not the government of the Federal District and the director, he was the one who institutionalized many of the workers.

Thank you, we are running out of time, thank you. The king of Cash may one day appear in Mexico City. Well, we have to go, we couldn't get the Lopez couple in today, but let's see if he comes on Wednesday when the national team plays, not on Thursday or Friday. Well, they stay with Javier Poza. Thank you, good Monday, good start to the week, have a great time.