How A Billion Dollar Founder Runs His Company: Adrian Gore

It's interesting, I never started with a business plan, I didn't have any of that, it was really more about purpose, values ​​and impact on society, and you know the macro issues. I continue to learn the power of people, if you have exceptional people, they attract exceptional people. people this week a man who

runs

one of the top five companies that are changing the world Adrian Gore on the high performance podcast I really believe that the fundamental attribute of success is a sense of urgency and a sense of positivity things happen, you know, We'll fall into holes, but listen, we'll figure it out once you set a goal, you have something to lose, people don't act on potential gain, they act on potential loss, but what I learned, which is interesting, I guess it's obvious, is that skills will continue to suffer.

These great people do what unsuccessful people are simply not prepared to do. I'm a big believer in time is incredibly short, you know, it's not linear, it gets shorter as you get older, the reality is you shouldn't waste time on anything. That doesn't give you meaning or happiness, listen. I want to say a big thank you to all of our new subscribers, but you know, most people who watch this content on YouTube don't subscribe. I want to change that, the more subscribers, the more amazing. we can achieve high performance and in fact I received a lovely message from Rob who says that I recently discovered the high performance channel and watched the full interviews of Eddie Howe and Tyson Fury, both some of the best content I have seen in recent times years. five years on YouTube listen, if you're okay with it and want to keep this awesome stuff free, then hit subscribe right now.

Thank you very much, first of all, thank you very much for joining us, let's start as we always do in your mind, what it represents. hyper performance having a high performance I think it represents is represented by I think a real impact that changes people and he is making it very, very difficult to achieve and it should be a force for good in my opinion, so, now You know, off the top of my head, I would say it's about impact it's about achievement, but I think you have to have a sense of purpose and morality and that really rings true with the life that you've lived in the business that you've created, let's talk about Discovery, one of the most impressive. business on the planet um one of the most impactful businesses on the planet you regularly name the top CEO of South Africa so let's talk about where this all started because there are entrepreneurial people there are people who do and work but it's the big Thinking I'm interested in where this mentality of having a positive impact in addition to being an elite business person comes from.

I think the beginning of Discovery was decades ago, when Nelson Mandela was coming out of prison, the end of apartheid and the idea of ​​starting a health insurance

company

was the vision, the business vision, uh, always from the beginning. I think our position was about doing good for people, but the breakthrough certainly came in the South. Africa at that time, uh, just the enormous levels of disease burden, HIV AIDS, you know a lot of people who are sick and very few doctors, so you know how you know the problem statements, how do you build a health care

company

? sustainable health insurance in that country? type of environment and our breakthrough was the simple idea of ​​could we make people healthier?

Know? Could we encourage people to do healthy things? And that was the beginning of Vitality, which is the concept of, in a sense, just creating incentives or all kinds. of things to live in a healthy way, what happened to us, I guess, is that the world you know is kind of technology, the understanding in our industry that a lot of risk is behavioral, you know you make decisions and the power of purpose that kind of gave the model global relevance and we've really scaled around the world in the UK, you know, Vitality is a very important part of our business for us, so it came from trying to solve a problem limited of, you know, financing healthcare in a very complex environment as I think most professionals do.

I think most great companies come from solving difficult problems, you know, often in complex hostile environments, um, but um, I would tell you that I would just add, I would also add, I think it's gross. What has made the business very successful is that it is based on the concept of a simple purpose: making people healthier, so while it is a complex technology, the actuarial business has a very simple: make people healthier and a set of values, and I think in our The great thing about the industry is that when people are healthy or we are more profitable, there is no dissonance.

In other words, if you know we do good for our customers, they offer it to us, so we've had this incredible shared value mentality. there's just no downside, the better we do it, the better they do it, we're all totally and completely aligned, so the business is just going, you know, and I think it's been the most amazing and wonderful journey for us and, With little time, 40 million customers are enough. the world and we have real potential. I think we're reshaping financial services into this idea of ​​shared value, so it's been really easy, it's been hard work but ironically it's been an easy journey, so Adrian, can I ask? you around this message about the power of purpose because we read a lot about it, you know, like Jim Collins, the good thing about having this set, this eternal core and the strategy will change regularly, but I'm interested in talking to Someone who can tell us why why purpose is so powerful and how it influences day-to-day decision making and almost everything related to your business, could you go into a little more detail about it?

Well I think first adding Purpose should come first before the business in some way, so if you're trying to fit a purpose into a purpose that's not really authentic, I think if the purpose shapes the business then you have something authentic that you're building, in other words, it's your North Star, you know products can come and go like you said, strategies come and go, but if you're true to purpose, then you have a sense of longevity, you know, and a real, real, real, journey ahead, the other point is the purpose. It's critical, I think, to motivate the best people, you follow great people when they see a purpose of nobility and only people are attracted to a business that's just trying to make money or make a quick buck.

I'm talking about people, especially today, where it's about ambiguity and complexity. highly trained data science people, clinical people, etc., people like that want to see. I think everyone wants to see a purpose and something that has a positive impact on society, so to some extent I think purpose allows you to attract the best people and gives you a north star. It allows you to derive the very difficult times from the sense of confidence. I mean, I guess what I mean is what the counterfactual is without purpose and a focus only on profitability. I don't think it'll last, you know, so we went, we were lucky to start. with that purpose as a necessity and it just became, you know, we were based on a purpose and values ​​instead of rules, you know, and it just perpetuated itself, so can you give us a specific example?

For example, when you have been sitting around a meeting. table and that and purpose have helped you make a business decision that maybe you wouldn't invest in or in a direction that maybe you wouldn't take how that sense of that original purpose determined your strategy. Could you give us a specific example? Well I think. I think in the business context we have expanded the model by continually drawing on the purpose that you already know, so we took it from health to life insurance to banking, now it will help people manage money better, it is better for them and for us. the purpose of shared value is financial health, but it is the same idea and then we have migrated it to do good for society, you know, so we are, for example, in the South African context, we have a problem of sounds strange, terrible potholes on the roads causing deaths, so you know we spent a lot of money on fixing potholes strangely, you know it wasn't a commercial effort, but we said this is our purpose, you know, in the vaccine rollout.

During the covert process, we vaccinated, you know, a couple million people were critical to the government's response, so all of us in the boardroom. The narrative was about whether this fits into our concept of making people healthier, you know, and we just moved on. that purpose is a fundamental filter around what we do in the concept of Vitality now it's in health it's in banking Vitality money is in how you drive, you know how to drive safer, so I think the irony of purpose is that as the organization has become more complex and more diverse over time the actual architecture of the use of shared value The structure of vitality has more and more discipline, we become more focused, not less, and I think that is the power of purpose , you don't lose focus, you don't.

It doesn't spread and dilute, so if there were any young entrepreneurs listening to this, then they might want to embark on a similar journey to yours. Can you give us some ideas on how they might identify that really compelling? sense of purpose that you had in the early '90s, well, I think if you listen, this is my opinion, but I think if you're starting a business as an entrepreneur, I think you should have a product or service that I really think society wants you to have. You know, I don't know, I think you have to have something that you think you can sell and my feeling is built into that in that product or service there has to be a purpose that helps people or helps society if you have it.

I think you can build a narrative that is inspiring and you can build a business, but that's not enough. I mean, that's not enough. There's a sense of drive and urgency in driving achievement, you know, and innovation, and that's necessary, it's not enough, but. but it's the fundamental beginning and it's an incredibly perpetuating multiplicative effect, having a strong purpose, you know, if you're running a sports team, you're running a business, you're running a country, it's critical. I mean, I have to say something. I like to run a little bit, but I think that the question of framing a vision and a goal in any way is a fundamental purpose of leadership and I think that a business without that framework without that purpose has no purpose, you know, for me it's kind of of a cineconor and it's hard to start without that, I think, and this is a really interesting area that we can focus on because we're talking about, you know, your own personal wealth has been talked about and written about in the hundreds of millions that we have.

We're talking about a business that has generated

billion

s of pounds over the last few years so I think everything has a purpose, I think it's a very good message for a lot of entrepreneurs who listen to this podcast, but I want to go back to that very beginning where you had this vision, you had this idea, but what you were planning to do was something totally different than any other insurance business, so I want to talk about bravery now that you have the vision, where does The Bravery come from? Almost nothing against the grain when everyone says Adrian, this is not going to work, look at what everyone else is doing and by the way, they are successful companies that are doing it this way.

Where does the courage of your convictions come from to believe and then? walk in the direction that you thought you should um I think you're being generous with courage maybe I think there was a deep conviction about the purpose and the potential of what we could do and I think that conviction and purpose creates courage, you know, and it helps you get through it, so when I raised the capital initially to start the business of a banking group that is still, you know, we've been confident with all of ours throughout the process that that purpose and conviction was in that initial approach , it's interesting.

I never started with a business plan, I mean it's weird and actually the training here I think should be financial and cash flows and internal rates of return and I didn't have any of that at all, it was actually more about purpose, values ​​and impact on society and you already know the macro issues so I'm giving a long answer. I have the feeling that this encouragement of courage comes from conviction. I think if you need it, if you need it, if you feel like you need bravery and you're taking risks, you're probably doing the same thing. something wrong.

I know there is a risk of inheriting what you are doing. I'm just saying that if you feel like it's risky, that's problematic, so I probably took a huge risk. I just don't remember, yeah, I think it's interesting. I remember the conviction, you know, and it's the same, and I, you know, our business metamorphosesOver time, it's been the purpose that that guidance has given us, it's never been a, you know, we just built a bank in our local market, I mean it was probably the most important thing we've ever done. It had a considerable amount of risk.

I don't remember feeling the risk. You know, so I'm not sure it's the right guideline, but if you feel like it's a risk, you shouldn't take it. If you don't feel it, you're probably at risk, but that's a conviction, maybe you know that. I've always thought that in business, a certain element of risk is where the rewards might be. If you don't take a minimum of risk can you really have an impact? Isn't it all a bit risky? No, you are absolutely right. I guess I'm highlighting the paradox that if you feel the risk, that's problematic, you sure are. taking the right thing you're taking it for Sure it's been a job working for you, you know whatever, some big bank, but if you say there's a risk, but I'm not convinced that you should feel at risk all the time, I think the The problem is that you must have a sense of confidence. and I think if you don't put that trust in that resilience, there's going to be failures all along the way, you're going to hit obstacles along the way, unless you have this, just because I'll get through it, I'll find my way.

You know, it's that ability to be realistic about risk, but also the resilience to deal with it, so I'm being long-winded, but I think you're taking risks, but you shouldn't feel it and we. We'll talk about failure in detail in a moment because it's one of the hot topics for us in high performance, but before you get to the point where you need failure, you need to set up the business to allow yourself to fail, so there's no money. , you don't have a business plan yet, you managed to bring people on the journey and you get people to invest to allow you to create this business.

So, would you mind sharing with our listeners the secret to bringing people on the journey with you and getting them to do it? I buy your vision, okay, again, I think I think your business proposition and your purpose has to be very compelling. You know, that's the first thing to get shareholders to invest money and then to get people on board. The other point. What I would do is I keep relearning the power of people, if you have exceptional people, you attract exceptional people, so if you start with poor quality people, I don't mean you mean derogatory.

What I'm saying is that if you start with people who are not up to the task, that is a self-perpetuating prophecy, on the other hand, if you start with exceptional people, for some reason, it is lost, so ya You know, I had this mentality from the beginning that well, we'd be small. We're going to be the smartest team out there, we're going to get the best people and everyone on the first team that joined me did an exceptionally hard job convincing them, but once they got rolling, you know what I did. I mean your ability to get good people continues and I think our current team, which is 15,000 people around the world, is exceptional, you know?

And because we've never lowered the standards, we've been completely obsessed with absolutely exceptional people, so I think that convincing is difficult at first, but if you continue with the right purpose and the right people, it perpetuates, it's a kind of metronome, It starts to flow, you know, but I'll go back to the values ​​as well. I think people are certainly exceptional, people are attracted to impacting an impact life and impact business, you know, and this kind of cognitive era that people create, you think people will be excited about shareholders winning. money with your hard work. I do not think it is like that.

It's true, I think they want to hear that this business is making a difference, you know, it's a simple formula, it's not easy to achieve, but I think it's completely doable, so tell us about good people and then what your definition is. I think, first of all, I think it's. on a footing of values, you know, I think you need people who share the same purpose and the same values. You could have the smartest people if they have maladaptive values ​​that could be extremely dangerous in business, so my opinion is this type of culture and values.

I'm not talking about the culture at the national level, I'm talking about the sense of what we are trying to achieve. I think you know that this EQ to IQ ratio should be managed very carefully and I think you should avoid selfish people. you know that the RQ divided by the ego must be much greater than one. you know that your IQ must be much higher than your ego. Uncontrolled ego is problematic, but I must say that I am a true talent junkie. I'm not just talking about education, we hire incredibly smart. people, but what I am saying is seek proper education on EQ IQ.

I think you need to look at those things carefully so that there's a sense that there's a Hench that I think people have when you're starting a business of good people that you need. I need to trust that that kind of intuition about who you're getting in the early days, as I continue to relearn, you can have the brightest idea of ​​each team and a police leadership team that screws it up and a bad idea of ​​the bright people in some cases. Are they taken and doing amazing things with it, you know, so I just say again that the importance of people setting up a business is the most fundamental thing you can do, so let's be very clear with our listeners when you have someone? in front of you and you're hiring and they say so, what are your values?

Adrian, what's the answer? I will explain the values, but I am talking about the simple issue of honesty and integrity. I'm talking about having a drive for social change and impactful innovation and I'm talking about people's ability to be prudent and innovative at the same time; In other words, you don't want risk-takers, you want people who can innovate and change the world, but have a sense of reality about risk and downside. I'm very, very focused on people who have a sense of urgency and positivity. I think the biggest problem in success is the ability to be positive, not to be unrealistically naive, but I like it. how good people are, other negative people around, they're problematic, you know, he's a pessimist and I, you know, it's my self, I really believe that the fundamental attribute of success is a sense of urgency and a sense of positivity, uh, and that is not related to IQ. unrelated to the evolution of education, it's kind of, you know, it's a sense of how people see the world and I find that critical.

I need people who are urgent to see, you know, time is short and people have a sense of positivity. a positive disposition, you know things are solvable, things will happen, you know we're falling into holes, but listen, we'll figure it out, you know, um, so it's not like they're not, they're not, they can't be measured by tests. . necessarily, but there are things you can gain from listening to people's life journey and speaking positivity to them. I can't tell you for sure, you know, you know, we come from a country of considerable complexity, you know, I think in other places in the world.

In today's world, the ability to look for positive signals is the fundamental attribute of success and leadership. I guess could you explain how to do that right? I think, first of all, let me give you some background for that. I mean, it's important you know this, we code to be negative, I mean, we've evolved in a world with physical dangers, you know, if you didn't look for the negative, a lion would eat you, so if you study evolutionary biology, we are survivors of people . who are negative, right, the positive gods died, you know, that didn't clear the line, so to speak, you know, so we are descendants of negative people, right, the problem is that the Agricultural Revolution, the Industrial Revolution happened, you know , in the last 100 years, a couple of thousand years, so we miscoded the world today is a function of systems, systems and companies and organizations, not physical structures, so to make physical things to make systems work , governments, you know, companies you need, you need positive thinking, you need to create trusting communication.

Loyalty arcs are a function of the ability to be positive, so I think to make the point that being negative is a primitive point, being positive is sophisticated, which means that in today's world, if you are positive, people think that you are being stupid. You are not being realistic with your question, so I mean wordy, it is fundamentally. I think about looking for positive signs. I don't mean not to be. I don't mean to be unrealistic. I mean looking at things understanding the risk, but where are the positives? here look for the positive, that doesn't come and in fact we are coded to look for the negative so in every situation I think to some extent I think you have to try to figure out where the positives are here, you know, and they again establish a goal or a purpose that I actually think evokes a sense of hope and positivity, a sense of agency when you set a goal that is yours and actually gives you something to work towards, you have a sense of agency a sense of hope, you know, there are tricks that I need to do it and props to do it, but it requires an I think it requires application, it doesn't really come to us, we're actually negative, that's why we're here.

So someone is lucky enough to be sitting across from the man who

runs

the business that Fortune Magazine is named one of the top five companies that are changing the world and has the opportunity to ask them a question: What is the question you ask? you ask those people to discover what they really are like. I'm not really good at a question, but I'd probably try the positive. Probably, how do you see the future in our country or in your environment and try to understand what they are like? It deconstructs the things around it. You know how they connect the dots around them.

You asked them what they think might happen and I think that might give me a really good idea. Adrian. You are very modest. You keep telling us you don't know what the answer is. es and then you do some two minute long shiny arms, you ask questions about taxes, you ask tough questions, but Adrian, can I ask you about your role as a leader of such a large group of people because we recently interviewed Adam. Grant to the organizational psychologist who spoke to you as a leader that you almost need to accept that your message needs to be repeated at least six times before you are sure that everyone at all levels of the organization understands it for you to be this optimistic leader driven by this powerful sense of purpose, how can you communicate that to the thousands of people who work well with you?

I think there are several ways to do it through the methodological webinars that I'm doing. We'll do one tomorrow for our entire base, you know, by the end of the year, but our message is pretty simple. I mean, I think the strategy that you know to make people healthier, the way it's developed is simple, so I don't do it and we spend a lot of time on values ​​and purpose, so I would actually have my say if You will talk to people on the ground in our organization anywhere. I think that would tell you the purpose and the values ​​and make some sense of the strategy, so again, you know, I hope that's an appropriate response.

I'm making the point. I guess if your strategy keeps changing and your purpose is not solid and you have to keep updating it. I think you're in a complex problem, you know, if you're telling the same story all the time. time and it is authentic and you and I believe that there is a reality, you know that there is some fragility, you know that we have not done well, we have to improve. I made New Wealth, yes, I need it. I think that creates a sense of context that makes the strategy realistic, but I guess I may be making the point, I think in my own journey, telling the same strategy, maybe the goals get bigger in the same way, with the same framing, the same, you know, the same narrative, creating personas, I think it makes sense. of continuity, you know, um, and I think people understand that, but because I can see real levels of power between them, like the sense of purpose that you have and, if you go back to the archives, you look at Walt Disney with the whole thing. from Disney.

Corporation was about making people happy and all the different variations of that, whether it was theme parks or animated shows on television, and yeah, Walt Disney was great, almost tying that into symbols that you know, whether it was making sure that the park was always clean, there's always a dumpster every 10 yards or things like that because it all fits into this idea of ​​the happiest place on Earth. I'm interested in the symbolism of similar acts or gestures that you do that people can link to this sense of purpose of making people healthier, could you tell us a little about that?

I mean, maybe two thoughts, one is that the Vitality program itself is intuitively simple, so when we started this idea of ​​giving you points, incentives, and rewards for doing healthy things, that was nice. of almost the advances almost like a programairline miles in those days, you earned points here in a state and that made you known, so that intuitive construction, I think you know, was a platform on which we built the other point is our industry. It's transactional, you pay a premium and you get a good that you know, you claim, it's such a transactional industry that you know by creating a world where you're making people healthier by owning points and getting incentives and going to gyms, and you know The whole framework is different so I think we had the opportunity to get a completely different industry in some ways and then I think we used a lot of symbolism.

If you look at the structure of Vitality, you know we're very results focused, it's the inverted T Vitality, that's more of an industry, it talks about what the model looks like, so there's a lot of, you know, iconic symbolism that we use and where we have worked hard on, for example in the UK, you may have seen our dog standing. Dachshund, you know who's who, you know, antagonist who's lazy and always trying to tell society I don't want to do those things, this is terrible, you know, I said we've created a very disciplined approach, I think you know, iconic for what we do. in the symbolism, almost in the actuarial calculations, the way we play things is structured, so it is not a very disciplined marketing phase, I think the icons of the process, but the real vitality works, as you have seen, is Anywhere in the world you go, whether you're sitting in Hong Kong with AIA or in China with ping on or in the US it's the same, it looks and feels the same, you know, so the repeatability abandons, yes, you know, but I also see that you make reference to the business coming up around the same time that Mandela was freed, um, from Robin. island in the early 1990s and there are many symbolic gestures that Mandela made that for those of us outside of South Africa still resonate, you know, like at the '95 World Cup where we wore the Springboks jersey when he handed him the trophy to Francois Pina, that was like seismic in your country.

I'm interested in you as if you were almost the leader of a small country in terms of the people that were with you and I know that you've taken some pretty big steps to almost establish this. idea of ​​living a healthier life and showing that anything is possible. I'm talking about your attempts to run the sub-five-minute mile, and I'm interested in why that is such an important symbolic gesture on your part. I think I believe. The idea came from the data, paraphysical activity, you know, we see it all the time, it is fundamentally a better and longer life in mental health than you know, in cancer treatment, it is a fundamental issue, so our data shows you a misleading vision. physical activity, so we are always trying to promote it, that was one problem, the other is the problem of sitting, my sensors are like I hope I have overcome the problem when you set a goal, life is different.

I keep your learning edition in the business you know. Audacious goals to help you move forward are key, so we had this simple idea of ​​could we set an audacious goal that would somehow highlight the power of physical activity so you know the problem was could I be a decrepit 58 year old CEO running? a five minute mile? you know, you know, that's kind of, you know, and if that's possible, what happened is we put this guy on there and um on LinkedIn and the receptiveness has been incredible, so it's not really about me running a mile, really.

It's about the power of goals, you know, setting goals and the things that I've heard from people, you don't forget about physical activity, you know, the feeling of hope, people who just had cancer set their own goal of something that someone has gone to do. a PhD we've had, I think a million and a half views on this process has been remarkable, so it came from a simple idea: could we compile a narrative about physical activity, but more so about the power of goal setting? most people just don't do that, they really don't, and as you get older, few people have goals.

I mean, that's in my experience and it's a tragedy, it's a missed opportunity. You know, once you set a goal, you have something to lose. We know you invoke many versions. We know that loss aversion inspires people who don't act on potential gain, they act on potential loss, so to set the goal like I have, I mean I'm frantic to try to achieve this goal because I have something to do. lose, it's mine, I created this own madness, you know what I'm saying, but that's what you need, unfortunately, you know, so it's been a fantastic journey, a journey of listening and learning from people, it's been very inspiring, You know?

Well, let's talk then about when you've listened and what you've learned because I know that as part of your goal setting as part of this challenge, you've talked to some very bright minds, Sebastian Coe, former athlete that you are. I have also spoken to Professor Dan to get information from him. We'd love for you to share that kind of knowledge with us because being a lifelong learner, as I'm sure you know, is magical, even at 58 years old when you've done everything you've done and accomplished everything you've accomplished. I'm sure these people have said things where you've gone.

Why didn't I know this 30 years ago when I was setting goals? What did you learn from them? What would you like to share with us? I mean, it was an absolute pleasure talking to people about quality and I mean these goals that I set were all different. You know, you think of a Sebastian Koh who is a manna and an Olympic athlete of 1500 meters, etc., the goals of him. They are defined by the rules of athletics, you know, I talked to Alex Honnold, who climbed, uh, El Capitan, that rock solo, you know, the goal is not to find as a mountaineer, as a mountain, as a climber, you have to define a goal. that's not really defined yet, you know, there's creativity in that, but I guess what I learned was just the preparation, it's amazing, you know, these people set goals that you know we can only dream about and then they have the level of preparation to get there.

You know, listen, you know Sepco's point about he prepared for every eventuality, so when he got to the race he said, you know, I know what's going to happen here, you know, climbing a mountain, you know, this guy, Alex, He really did every inch. that mountain, but the interesting thing that I learned, I guess it's obvious, is that the skills will remain in the pain, you know, the last few hundred meters in a race or the last client, you know whatever and I guess my kind of feeling durable are these. Great people do what unsuccessful people are simply not equipped to do.

You know, that's kind of a tragedy. Now you know, I'm saying that they are prepared to do things that we are not. You know and you know, that's where I think what we. What you're trying to do is tell people that you have to try harder, you know, whatever it is, and I also guess I learned a sense of fragility. Everyone, no matter what you see from the outside, has this fragility. He came to his doubts, you know, so nothing intuitive, but everything is inspiring and incredibly cerebral. These people are incredibly intelligent when it comes to deconstructing their goal and what should be the right thing to do.

I'm referring to Seb's opinion on the increase, no. incrementalism but incremental performance if you can do a mile in six minutes you can do five and a mile if you know five in a mile you can do a mile in four minutes I mean, obviously there's an asymptote there, you know you're right, but that mentality of just You know of brain enhancement, so you know directly that everyone says the same thing, but it's about courage, it's about the ability to endure pain, you know, it's remarkable, there's sadness in that too, Adrian's not there, I mean, we were. accompanied by Mark Webber, the Formula One driver, who told us that average is easy, that's why it's popular, yes, and yes, as you just said, they are prepared to do the things that most people are not prepared to do and the sadness is that most people can, but they just choose not to or their brain doesn't allow them to believe that they are worthy of doing those things and pushing themselves to those limits and there is sadness in that, oh, there is absolute, uh , people can do that. more amazing things, I think that's why just the discipline of trying to schedule goal setting because I think that's the catalyst without that, just keep going, just keep going, you know, in your life, I mean Alexa, who cloned El Capitan, the What I found surprising is that most of us are optimizing for the longest life possible at any cost, whereas I think it's more about meaning and impact, you know, maybe a life cut with a little more meaning, I'm not telling you.

I should do that. I'm just saying that it's a calculation a climber can have, that there's meaning in what he's doing and that it's worth taking the risk in some way, I don't know, but there's something sad about what I think about going through life without achieving it. potential there is greatness in everyone I think you know we have to try to get people to set goals to evoke that feeling of pressure, how to achieve it because I think most people go through life unfortunately without reaching their potential, whatever that may be. I know um and this idea of ​​a five minute mile has brought you right to the coal face of seeing and hearing the amazing things that people can do.

It's amazing, so could you talk to Adrian about how a listener could set a goal in their own life. It might be a little more modest than doing a five-minute mile or climbing El Capitan, but for someone listening to this now, What are the first steps you can take to set a goal in your own life? life, well, I think I'm putting it out there, but I think you need to set a goal that has meaning for you, you know, there's a lot of science in the science of hope for people with terminal illnesses. You know, how you give people hope is what's ultimately important to you and setting that goal, you know, a baby, a fast career, it can be something else, it's about making money, I mean, that It's an important topic, it has to be something authentic, but I think about choosing something that means something to you, whether it means something to someone else or whether it's awesome or not.

I think it has to have meaning. I think it has to have a certain degree of extension. I think you know. I think if it's just doable, it's not. You don't have it available. I think if it's too stuffy you're not going to get that, maybe demotivating. You know part of the dialogue with Dan Aurelio about behavioral sciences. You know what the sweet spot is, but my feeling is that sending something that is meaningful to you, meaningful to you, something that is really, can be bold, with a little bit of effort, gives you a sense of agency and hope and that just it shows you the most extraordinary journey, it changes your life, so you know, I don't think so.

It requires a huge amount of intelligence, you know, I think it's just thinking through and doing it, and among all of this I want to touch on the topic of happiness because I have a feeling that when we get too obsessed with the goal. In this environment we delay our happiness so very often people delay their happiness to achieve success believing that success is what will give them the happiness they delayed in the first place and then they achieve success and realize that in actually they are not. happier for what they have achieved. The joy actually came on the trip, but they delayed that initial happiness because of the success.

To me it feels completely backwards, so I think we should talk about the fact that, as bright as the lens. Environment is just as important as challenging yourself and pushing yourself and finding your limits and not settling for average and believing that you deserve to achieve and feel and experience great things. Do you also believe that we should not delay our happiness until we have achieved it? achieved those things we have to realize that I actually believe that the joy comes from the challenge of the journey of the process yes I couldn't agree with you more I think the journey is everything that's why I think the goals should be meaningful and the journey towards it must be appreciated.

I mean, yeah, on my crazy 500-mile race and I'm not there yet, but the actual journey of seeing the improvement in, you know, and getting up at five in the morning to hit the road. and see the beautiful view you know things I haven't done it's been an amazing journey so I'm a big believer if you set a proper and meaningful goal whether you achieve it or not you are happier than you would have been me too. I think you're right I think you chase the wrong things and we finally get there, if we're doing it right, we've been blessed, we've wasted our lives, you know, it's about the journey, but I think even more, it's more important than setting a journey in a direction that is meaningful because you know one thing, I'm a big believer, time is incredibly short, you know, it's not linear, it gets shorter as you get older, so, uh, the reality is you shouldn't burn out. time on anything that doesn't give youmeaning or happiness and I totally agree with what you've said so can I ask you about that then about time because I look at the success that you've had in your career and I wonder? about balance, about how to divide your time in terms of family, friends, social activities, running a business and then introducing an ambitious goal like a five-minute mile, how do you balance all those different demands?

Look, I'm skeptical about balance in an absolute sense. I think balance is a relative thing, you have to decide what is important to you and then balance it, balance it, you know? So, I don't know, some people think about fame, I believe in family and and my career and having an impact is important, so that's what I prioritize, you know, I don't do other things, I don't waste time on things that then they consume time, so you can look at me and say I'm very you know, unbalanced, but in my priority it's unbalanced. I'm just making it clear that I believe balance is not an absolute quality, it's relative.

What is important to you. In fact, I have been working very hard and I have been very close to my family, it is all we value, my wife, my children and my extended family. I spend my time with them and I've managed to fit things in, you know, so I won't get up an hour or two earlier. I'm enjoying it, I'm getting better, but first to make sure I can do it, so I'm not being condescending, it's doable, you know, it's doable. I think when you get unstuck is when you have a lot of problems that you're chasing. that they are very important to you and you are wasting your time and then you know it, so I am proud of the fact that I have lived a very busy life, I have worked very hard, I have traveled all the time. along the way I'm a great friend to my kids you know I'm close to them you never know I don't like you I don't want to go to I don't regret it and I just don't That's not what I think you're going to try what's important to you and then you know How do you distribute the hours?

I don't think you should get carried away with applying a balance set to the outside world. It feels appropriate. but I believe and hope that this will not be unpopular. I think making a real impact takes time, you have to put in the effort, don't you, some people are lucky for most of us, it's hard, hard work and you have to I think I have to allocate the time necessary to achieve it and that has to be taken into account. counts in your balance. What is your golden tip to stay productive? I think being fit and sleeping.

I know it sounds simple, but I think that's been my experience with getting enough sleep. If you stay physically active you will be productive and you will not feel fatigue. I have stairs in my office here in our headquarters here is a brutal eight-story building. I do. It takes me a minute nine seconds while I'm on. I feel good but a lot of time when I feel oh you're so competitive you're timing the stairs, that's great, two or three times a day and I'm super fit, it's three minutes a day, a few minutes a day, whatever. can fit into that, you know, and what about distractions because you know you have your kids and your family and your business and certainly other investments and other interests, and you know you're kind of.

I often look at CEOs and companies like On a cat scratching post, everyone comes to you with their problems, so how can you stay productive? Staying focused on the main goal when you have so many distractions and demands. I am a discipline of the three states. I'm not that good. In that, my schedule maybe too busy, but I think it will be discipline, you have to say no to things that are not important, you just have to do that, if you can't, I think it's actually the difference between a life and live life well. out of chaos you have to say no to things that just don't matter I think it's important um and that's what you know ultimately I think things that might be close to things that then matter and that's what you're looking for I certainly am.

There's no golden rule. I mean, I hope I don't give the impression that I know at all. I just made decisions in my own life that I don't regret, which is maybe the Golden Test, but tell us about it. to say no and do it with certainty and purpose and almost with a degree of Elegance, that's something that intrigues me. I'm not particularly good at it, but I'm interested in people who have that as a skill that makes you physically better as you. I promise you. I have soft skin, thin skin. I don't like saying no to people.

I don't like it, so I'm probably less efficient than I should be, but our value. our valued relationships I value people's opinion of me and our organization, so I take the time to gently say no, you know, yeah, I also believe that running a large company that has customers, you have to be available to your customers. clients, however you do it, we have structures. I have teams of people who, you know, look at emails and, you know, the sense that people feel like we care about what we do, so I'm not the kind of CEO that, you know, I'm absolutely disciplined, but somehow confusing. through you, you know it's true to my sense of balance and if someone wants you to say yes to something, how should they frame it?

I think with purpose and integrity I'm a bit of a fool so, you know, I'm not really difficult. Sell ​​selfish, no, yes, not that. I think the world has changed. I think there is a proper sense of purpose. Authenticity. A bit of fragility. There is risk. You know there are problems. You know I'm involved in that, but for me, personally, rigor and intelligence. It's important that you can feel in a person the real capacity of what they're transmitting, you know, and that's because you develop a sixth sense for that kind of judgment. I think that's something I really want to touch on that we mentioned earlier, which was failure.

There will be people listening to this and I think it has been full of wisdom. Great conclusions. You know, that's exactly what this podcast exists for. You know, people don't have to listen to every word you say, follow it and believe it, but what? What we are saying is that the life you have lived has lessons that can be lessons for your life, so what would you share with us when we talk about failure? Because there is no way to get where you need to go without being one. able to deal with that and business your size, your fights flare up every minute of every day.

I imagine then, what is your relationship with failure like? I think the list you felt the best. I know it sounds obvious, but I think there's some romance to it. about failing and getting back up and I think that's true but the less failure you have the better I think and I could be wrong on this but science today shows that our brain learns from success not failure so the less you feel the better , but if you fail I think you should you shouldn't internalize it I think you need to get up and forget about it move on you know we started coming here in the US I remember the first few days they finally failed but you know people often ask about our initiative there, the truth is that everything we have done globally comes from the lessons we learned in that failure.

We wouldn't be global today without having gone through that, so I didn't internalize it then, as you know, this is a It's great, I'm learning from it, it was a terrible thing, it was a lot of pain, but, ironically, it was a catalyst for incredible things, so my feeling is that failure should not be your friend, you should avoid it if you can, if it happens I would. I don't enjoy it, I would learn from it and move on, you know, and you need to do that. I think it's critical, you have to accept that there will be failures all the time, there will be challenges all the time, there's something about the sounds of a note.

It's kind of a necessity, but there's something about facing a problem here, accepting it and not running away from it. We have had a lot of problems. I know we have fled from them. We have avoided them. Our best moments. I mean, when you become them and say. Listen, I'm going to attack you. I don't give a damn. I'm going to solve this problem. Do you know what that is. I don't know that the resolution of this thing is real. You know I have. I have to attack it from here on out and that's probably suddenly evoking the goal setting mentality that suddenly solving that problem becomes a challenge, well you're not running away from it so I don't know, you kind of revel in it. with failure, you run away from failure. o o bad things I think I think learning from failure and facing it head on bravely and saying right, how do I do it?

I think most of our best products, best ideas often come from very, very difficult challenges that we've had. I had and, uh, I firmly believe that you build a business in tough times, that's when true brilliance comes. You have the Mandela era that I talked about, it was a time of great uncertainty for our country where others were immigrating or not investing. I think ironically. those times when assets are undervalued, opportunities are overlooked, you can attack, you know, to a certain extent, you know, see failures in learning, opportunities, take it head on, you know, look at difficult times as times to build .

I think they're ironically obvious, but they counteract it. -I'm sure most people do the wrong thing, their investment prices are high, you know, when the markets are weak, but I would say that unless you fail quickly and move on, don't haggle because by that I mean the message that we have received so much. Many of our high-performance interview guests, Adrian, have been around the idea of ​​that almost Accept failure that they see when Greg Hoffman, Nike's chief marketing officer, told us that failure is the price of success, so which you almost have to accept it for the pro in your own process and then do the element that you have described from them, face it head on and learn from it, so what would you describe as the most significant failure that you have had that has led to greater learning?

Well, I think we started Health Insurance America, like I say, it was called Destiny Health, it was called, it was an idiotic idea. He has a group of guys in their 20s. We have just started in South Africa. We started a health insurance company in Chicago, but we got very far. I just couldn't get the prices that health insurance B got for health care and that made it impossible to move forward, but when we closed that business and there was a sense of failure, but I think we learned to that extent. A lot of that and the opportunity to take those learnings that we came to the UK and other markets in Asia etc, were from that point of failure, so you know, the price of failure, I think there was a price. but the lessons were absolutely and totally remarkable.

I mean, I think you know I have good decisions that come from experience. Experience comes from bad decisions. You know that chain of logic, you know, is very true, but again. I think if you can avoid failure, do it, but then, could you tell us that about the process? Because I think a lot of people like to avoid failure or have had those experiences, but I think what you've described there is the ability to deal with it, could you tell us about the actual process, how you and those colleagues who tried to establish that business in the United States United came together after that experience to process it?

I think there's a point at which failure is acknowledged, in other words, I think. many times you run away from it you delay it in business you postpone it you kick the can down the road things are going to change so there is an art to some point saying that we have problems here and we face it head on, so I think it sounds obvious, but to It often doesn't take long for people to realize that the cause is a slip, you know, I think once you do, I think there's an art to really laying down a good way to generate consensus about what the problem is, how to solve it and what needs to be done, and you know, I think what our business has done well has been very smart people who always add occupants creating a consensus vision, you know, without trying. decisions based on a person's ego, so we try to analyze where the problems are and then you have to make difficult decisions, you know, and I think you shouldn't be ashamed of failure, I think in any type of personal failure I think that's what same as setting goals I think having tried in the first place is the virtue you know you shouldn't hold back you have to stand up keep your head up we've done something wrong I've done our best you know there's something in that you know we can only do what best we can and solve it, but, as I say, I think the pernicious side of failure is not admitting it, letting it go, keep running and not making the decision. difficult decisions I think the sooner you call it, the quicker you'll deal with it and the quicker you'll get over it, it's used to refer to a fundamental issue and if you do it right, when you look back, I don't really remember the failures, it's a bit like the paradox previous in this risk issue, we've had tremendous failures, I just don't remember them, you know, I think that's a good thing, listen, we're going to get to the quick section of our questions in a moment, but there's just one thing you said earlier and what I wanted to return to is that it is hard work but aeasy trip, could you explore that for a moment?

Well, I think building, anything, certainly builds our business. of scale takes hours and hours and hours, you know, hard work, but the actual content and progress has been so rewarding that it hasn't felt like work, it's felt like an absolute pleasure, you know, and I think. That's certainly something I've been lucky to have when driving wherever I go. I have an incredible feeling that we have done well. You don't know, financially, we are having an impact. It hasn't been difficult for me, you know, and I think it's a pleasure if you can achieve it, you know that in life it is a fundamental question.

I think nothing is more important than that, so it's been hard work, you know, 10 15 hours. days, you know all the time, it is never a day where there is no work to be done, but the meaning of an impact has been remarkable. I mean I don't know who said, you know, I worked hard at it, I enjoyed my job a lot and everywhere today in my life I don't know who said that but there's something in that if you can achieve that in life what a pleasure yeah I think that quote has been attributed to William Shakespeare Nelson Mandela Desmond Tutu Mother Teresa at one time or another has been attributed to all of them if you force yourself, if you make your passion your job, you will never need to work again a day in your life, yeah, you're absolutely right, right, let's move on to our quick five questions what are the three non-negotiables that you and the people around you have to believe Adrian?

I think positivity is doing the right thing, yeah, and I think, to be honest, you know I'm not doing anything, also being similar, but I think. I think those two are key if you could go back to that at one point in your life, what would it be and why would you probably start over? Because I think it was romantic and incredibly exciting, but ironically I could say yesterday because the trip has been additive, you know what I mean, it feels better, so I'm not convinced, you know, I want to go way back, you know, and there's a good lesson for people.Hearing this is obsessed with the final destination rather than the journey, the fact that you have achieved everything you have and would still like to go back to the beginning, is a good reminder that it's all about the journey, eh? which is your destination? biggest weakness what is your biggest strength I think the point is yes, I'm a bad decision maker and I don't say no, I think it's a virtue, but it's a weakness ultimately, I think my strength is optimism, you know?

I think I see I see opportunities and I can connect the dots to get there I think that's how I'm coded I guess what advice would you give to a teenage Adrian just starting out I think I think pursue something with a purpose and be positive and urgent to get there there will be Obstacles along the way but don't give up there is always a solution What do you think people get most wrong or misunderstand about you? I think that often mistakes my Optimism for uh for naivety, which I think is not like me. You know, I'm a believer.

Optimism is kind of my case, but I think it's a necessarily sophisticated quality and ultimately what is the only golden rule for people to live a high-performance life. positivity urgency if you give me the sermon to choose both it is not IQ it is that you need to have a positive purpose a purpose that is moral we are given that I think positivity and urgency speed name of urgency time is limited because it is I love the fact that you I've noticed that we often talk about Memento Mori, which is the way the stomach spoke, remember that you're dying, which people think is negative, but it's actually fantastic, you know. , fast forward 100 years, there's the size of your business is probably so big that there's a good chance it still exists, but you and us and everyone we've ever met, including our children, certainly won't be, so I think that there is something to be said for making the most of every day. really interesting conversation, honestly, thank you so much Adrian for taking the time and sharing with us what has been an extraordinary journey and the sound of things with your optimism, your urgency, your clear energy and the fact that you can climb stairs at once. minute nine even though there are eight floors, I think there are still many chapters to write.

I appreciate it, I really appreciate the time, thank you, thank you, it's been a real pleasure, thank you, thank you, just a quick word to say, thank you very much for. Seeing this content on the High Performance channel, we'd love for you to subscribe. You know, most people who see what we do don't subscribe. If you can subscribe, we can make this bigger and better. Bolder than ever before, so hit subscribe. right now and help the high-performing podcast make a real difference in the world. See you soon.